Talk:Sebastian Vettel/Archive 1

888:. You can't compare an obscure "record" like some of these we've mentioned with a stat for the number of races a driver has entered. 'Races entered' is basic biographical info which is easily citable from dozens of reliable sources. No, just because nobody has done it before, that does not make it notable. That simply isn't true. A footballer scores for Liverpool in the 26th minute and the 35th minute, then gets booked in the 40th minute. Maybe it hasn't happened before - is it a notable record? Of course not, and nobody would claim that it is. An F1 driver is the first guy ever to pit on the 6th lap while running 10th for Force India. Is that notable? No. These are slightly facetious examples, but there has to be a dividing line between the abstract and the meaningful, and that means a citation. If we're calling something a record, then a reliable source has to be found to say it's specifically a record - that is a simple law of Knowledge and there's no getting round it. 2473:

involved with the booing. So it is a controversy surrounding his sportsmanship manifesting as booing. Also i am not sure on the weight which should be given to the essay on controversial articles which is pointed to when establishing a consensus for this specific article. All it basically says is make sure that a neutral point of view is kept as far as is possible while maintaining accuracy. What it clearly does not do is establish a Wkipeidia policy or guideline for not having a separate section on controversy in articles. The Lewis Hamilton controversies are one off incidents involving single qualifying sessions or one off racing incidents. The Vettel controversies are ongoing and are the same thing happening again and again. This is clearly a case-by-case as to if an article should or should not have a controversies section.

1681:. Second, as has been explained, a verifiable fact can still not be worthy of inclusion if, by consensus, it is considered to be trivial. Wikilawyering accusations are fine - it's a word usually thrown around by people who don't understand the rules against people who do. I agree on your second point, but I would extend it to relatively meaningless combinations of winning, such as winning as two different tracks at a young age, and topping a practice session, which is not fully competitive. Your last point requires a degree of deduction on the part of the reader, and the sources are supposed to directly support the material. Not my words, those are the rules. Anyway, the ref for that is out of date now - a new one will be required after his runner-up finish at Silverstone. 701:

of the page and don't district from the article, down at the bottom for the more wonkish F1 followers. Knowledge is generally inclusive of information, unless it detracts somehow from the article. I don't see it here, as it is merely at the bottom, not even really in the article. 99.9% of readers will probably never even read it. as long as the more esoteric ones don't clog up the actual article itself, I fail to see the problem. Just glancing at hamiton's wiki, you he even has a record lsited for being a british driver. I'm sure there is some mention of his racial heritage, too. Neither of these are officially recorded stats in F1.

1759:

really is a passing mention - hardly Autosport or the NYT, is it? As I and Midgrid have both said, this does not rubberstamp inclusion. Consensus will decide what goes in and what doesn't. Where does it say the BBC considers that other record notable? They mentioned it in the live coverage, though as we established, they were actually wrong about it. A mention in Brundle and Coulthard's chat does not infer automatic notability, otherwise everything they said would be on here. If enough people want it in, it can go in - what more do you want? So far it's you and Whatzizname - we need more voices.

2012:

interest by the time they finish reading it. Some of these stats are subset stats of others. For example most wins under the age of 24 is in effect derived from youngest winner. So as such are only really as notable as say 24-years-old is. If there is some special significance to the age of 24. For example, some football competitions exist only for players under the age of 23, or 17, so those ages then become significant in the compilation of football statistics. However in motor racing no such significance exists, rendering age specific statistics essentially useless and of no real importance.

1170:

crap and call it a fact, but the rest of us like things to be sourced, and that means sources that actually support the claim. The 2011 Monaco GP discussion has nothing to do with this but I see you still don't have a clue what the problem was there - the issue was that you wanted to use the race report to include comments that Hamilton made that didn't have anything to do with the race. As a number of editors and an admin told you, it was the wrong place. Did you put them in Hamilton's article like we suggested? Or did you just not bother?

870:

contain a great deal of informational statistics that in and of itself is not "notable" in the general sense. Look at all the F1 drivers and look a the bios,; they all say how many races they have driven. Unless you hold some record for most races driven, what is the notability for that? And a record is a statistic. So? You can say all records are "just a stat". But a record is something that hasn't been accomplished before, which in most cases makes it notable in a sports-sense.

850:- you can't "logically deduce" a stat into a record. It's just a stat. To claim it as a record, it has to be down as a record in some kind of reliable source. Otherwise, practically any stat can be claimed as a record. Maybe he's the only guy to win a race wearing women's underwear - maybe you can find a reliable source to say it's true - but that does not make it a record. It would need a source saying it's a record before we can say it's a record. This also satisfies 31: 2203:. It clearly had an effect on the race - we all watched it happening during the race, and everyone was and is talking about it. Anything that happened during the race had an effect on the race, however small or large. The Monaco thing is a totally different thing - it happened after the race, had no bearing on either the race or the result, and was blown out of proportion by one editor, who won't let it go. Let's not drag this out. 1920:

that's where it is. Nobody needs a sodding table for this stuff. It's an encyclopedia, not a tedious stats dump for any random factoid that someone wants to highlight for their favourite driver. I'd also add that the "World Champion having not been championship leader before in the season", both for Vettel and Hunt, is not an achievement as such. Nobody sets out to do that, and it happens more or less by accident.

3414:

from the introduction section. I think the only one that disappeared was 'youngest to drive at a F1 weekend' - if re-instated, I would suggest the second paragraph within the chronological order of events. The context probably already reduces the need to explicitly clarify that the records are no longer current. (Any debate on which 'youngest' records to include and which to not, should please be posted in the

1938:"Youngest driver to score a double", "Youngest driver to score a triple", "Youngest Grand Prix winner at the same track on two occasion", "Youngest Grand Prix winner for two different teams" and "World Champion having not been championship leader before in the season" will be removed from the records section, and just mentioned in the points in time in the career summary. 1297:

interesting than having achieved more than one second place", this is a thing you seem to find incongruous. An answer to this would seem to be well, yes they are more interesting. Some records are simply more interesting than others, and this includes some sourced ones. I don't think we are arguing over the need to draw a line so much as where that line needs to be.

2681:

shown demonstrate that this is highly controversial and that it is clearly notable. If it was not notable or not controversial no one would have said anything and reliable sources like the BBC and Autosport would not have covered it, it would have been left to the unreliable (in terms of no editorial oversight and secondary sourcing) blogs such as F1fanatic. Also

854:. So he's the youngest guy to win with two different teams - so what? Why is it notable? Who was the last "record holder"? Without a source to back it up, it's just trivia, lacking notability. Maybe a driver has finished 11th more times than any other. You can deduce it from the results table. So what? It's just a meaningless stat, not a record. 937:

don't appear interested in improving this wiki, and probably not any other for that matter. You've seen and edited hamilton's wiki with some of the most absurd nonsensical records ever seen without a problem, but now you suddenly think winning racces and finishing in the top 2 is irrelevant, but being british is relevant. Big shcok.

507:

known for qualifying pace - it's his strongest attribute in what makes him who he is. There should be emphasis on some of the qualifying margins e.g. "Vettel dominated qualifying again at the Chinese Grand Prix - lapping over seven tenths quicker than that of Jenson Button." He also had exceptional qualifying pace in STR.

1082:, even if a fact is verifiable, it does not follow that it is worthy of inclusion in an encyclopedia. If consensus shows that some of these should be removed, then they will be. This happened with Schumacher's article, and Hamilton's, and now this one. It's nothing new. Yes, you guessed it - I'd rather be a stickler 996:

two different teams doesn't say that - it just says he won for two different teams. The sources clearly need to agree with your claim. As I said before - stating facts is not the issue here - the issue is whether or not they are notable facts. Why is this so hard for you to understand? This is an encyclopedia, not

3191:

The profile picture from commons from the Malaysia podium was removed without any explanation from the IP-addressed author or any addition of another free image. Although no clear-cut case for vandalism in this case it created a disturbance. To protect the page from apparent vandalism perhaps make it

2462:

Demanding a consensus is gained before a section is added when a talk is initiated after being added and then has ZERO responses is saying potentially wait forever for other to respond before you are allowed to add something as you cannot demonstrate a consensus, it flies in the face of be being bold

1856:

the younest with 2 different teams is acvtually more important it looks at first glance, as in both those wins they were maiden victorys for the teams he was racing for, giving them extra importance in the narrative of Vettel's racing career. I agree about not been the leader record though because it

1637:

I thought the 'before 24' one was just an interesting example of the situation you're getting in if you want to wikilawyer everything. You (and I for that matter) find it a rediculous thing to mention, but our views don't count in this, now do they. A source considers it notable enough to mention, so

1325:

What part of Britmax's comment looks anything like an intent to delete everything as trivia? He's clearly saying that we need to draw the line between trivia and useful records, and you somehow construe that as a desire to delete everything. If you don't see that there's a line to be drawn, then what

1169:

Thanks very much. None of the references that GameLegend added are acceptable, because they don't back up the claim he's making. Simple as that. If you'd read them, you'd know that. But yeah, I "left them in" for now, but they can't stay if things aren't changed. I know you like to just spout any old

1044:

The top two record stated by the BBC and RTL GP (and quoted all over the internet accordingly) is incorrect if stated as top two race results, as that is a record currently held by Alonso (9 top two RACE finishes in '06). Would you rather be a stickler and provide incorrect information, or use a tiny

995:

The sad thing is when people add references that don't even mention the record they're supposed to be citing. There's no mention of the 10 consecutive top two finishes in the ref you provided, and no mention of qualifying either. The source that's supposed to say he's the youngest guy ever to win for

980:

The sad thing about this discussion is not whether or not the facts are there, but simply someone believing that 'stating neutral facts' is somehow creating a bias in this article. FACTS are not biased. Who are you to claim that a record that was mentioned as such on the television broadcast compares

952:

improving this blah blah". I think I mentioned before that that's not allowed, right? I don't edit Hamilton's article much, except to update the results. I haven't looked at his records, and I don't even like the guy, which you ought to know because I've told you before. Please reproduce where I said

936:

Nobody gives a shit about how many times someone finishes in the top two, yet right in the bio section it lists how many podiums all formula one drivers have? So the top THREE is important, but the top TWO is irrelevant. Haha. it's pretty obvious at this point I can't take you serious any longer. You

506:

When I compare the depth of this article with that of other Formula One driver articles, I can see that this is really lacking in information that I would like to see. For example, the page on Lewis Hamilton lists his driving records. It also has a section on Hamilton's driving style. Vettel is well

2539:

The booing is something that has happened at a couple of race through this year, yet it is the booing, and not Vettel, that is widely condemned by pretty much everyone in the paddock. Worth a line or two in the 2013 section, but not a section on it's own. Multi-21 is complete non-issue in historical

2122:

What does that have to do with Vettel? It had no affect on the race, nor do we have any evidence vettel knew anything about it. So vettel didn't know about it, vettel had nothing to do with it, and it had absolutely zero effect on the race. This is pretty amazing coming from the guy who doesn't want

2093:

I think he said "maintain the gap". We should probably stay as close to the original comment as possible, if so. I would also add that if an issue involves webber and has nothing to do directly with vettel, the same logic must be applied to all F! drivers, and suddently we will have wiki's not about

1966:

I have less of a problem with the double/triple records (surely we can cite those somehow) than with the top two finish records, two of which aren't sourced. I also dislike the "highest average points" record, first, since it automatically excludes everyone who hasn't raced under the current scoring

1726:

verified the notability of the record. It states the fact, that's all. Look, the same thing applies. There needs to be a consensus to include this guff. You're wrong, records like Barrichello's are updated within the reliable sources as they change. FORIX/Autosport updates Barrichello's record after

1493:

This why your attempt to circumvent consensus with wiki lawyering with claims of sources being required is and will be a complete failure. If you do not dispute the facts, then you have no argument. "records that aren't records", is is meaningless. You don't get to determine if a record is a record.

1296:

I don't know why you find the idea that records are trivial amusing: all records are trivia, as none of them put food on the table. The line we try to find here is where they become interesting enough to be relevant in some way. To take a previous comment of yours, "the first three (podium) are more

902:

Slightly facetious? Haha. Whatever. Yes, being the youngest driver to win a race, or championship for that matter, with two different team falls into the realm of what kind of underwear he was wearing and your little vignette on force india. If you wanna be taken serious, you might want to get more

2482:

If the inclusion of the section is viewed as NPOV or out of step with another Wikipeida policy or guideline then please raise the concerns here, it is just silly though to wave essays and other articles which do not establish or show pre-existing policy, guidelines, or consensus to attempt to block

2336:

Since Vettel's first win at Monza, he has never gone more than seven races before his next win. No other contemporary driver can make that claim. If Vettel can maintain this distinction through the end of the year (he should have start #100 by then), this will certainly be worth adding somewhere to

2048:

Although Vettel's KERS was malfunctioning at times, he was able to pass Massa on the track and took back second place. After a strong charge from Mark Webber towards the end, Webber was asked to "maintain the gap" and not try to make a move on Vettel. Although Webber ignored his team's requests and

1919:

That's simply rubbish. If that were the case, why do GP.com, FORIX/Autosport etc etc all list the number of races that each driver has participated in, yet none bothers with anyone being the youngest driver to win maiden victories for two different teams. That kind of thing belongs in the text, and

1885:

We have been over this. You can call anything a trivial fact, and all sports stars have all sorts of stats and numbers that many people wouldconsider trivial. But the records/info is not intended for them however.No one answered when I asked why do all the drivers show how many races they have been

1703:

As for needing an updated source for ongoing records, I'm sorry, but that's just kind of silly. The source has verified the notability of the record, and we build on that. Or are you going to want a source every new race to say that Rubens Barichello has the most Grand Prix starts? Of course no one

1645:

One thing though, regarding the most consecutive top two results thing. The total consecutive was 'unsourced' because the record was only mentioned as most from the start of the season. However, in verifying notability, in my opinion this goes together. If most consecutive top two from the start of

1470:

As I explained before, but it obviously didn't get through, I'm not challenging the facts themselves, I'm challenging the idea that these facts are seen as records. The article states that these are records, and the source material that you'll have to find must clearly corroborate that these are F1

783:

They have been fabricated by one or more editors, regardless of whether or not they are true. I could put a record on Fernando Alonso's page stating that he won the 500th Formula One Grand Prix. It's a record, but it's not recognised by any reputable source. It's just a meaningless statistic, not a

700:

You are going to have to define "recognized statistics", and then you ill have to cite part of the wikipedia rules that precludes such stats being on a wiki page. If, in your summation, the more abstract or minutia-like records bother you, you can take solace in that they are way down at the bottom

510:

Also reference to Vettel's various helmet designs would be nice to see. I would also like to have read how Vettel's many mistakes in 2010 resulted in negative criticism of his driving style, and quotes from a few important figures in Formula One who have said this. As Vettel is now a reigning World

2765:

I feel that the booing is strange, and not warranted by Vettel's slight 'transgressions'. These are not themselves notable, and it would only be feeding the fire of bigotry to start a separate entry on this. Many other drivers have engaged in behaviours or incidents which really do merit booing,

2680:

Webber's quote "the atmosphere was not completely correct. But, anyway, it's their choice" is hardly a condemnation, more of a that was wrong but so what. Criticising and condemning are no where near the same thing. It is no where near unanimity amongst the paddock as claimed. Also the reactions

2372:

I personally think that there is enough to warrant a separate section for individual and overarching controversies surrounding Vettel in the same way that the Michael Schumcher article has a section on controversies. There are enough sources and enough notability to separate them out from the main

2184:

It had zero effect on the race, since Webber ignored the team orders, but as you said, it's a thing that happened that is being talked about. While I'm not wanting to open a discussion (I was no part of), in that sense, it's the same as with Monaco. It's something that has happened, something that

917:

I think I can figure out what you're trying to say. Well, I would personally rank some of the crap that has appeared on this article with the underwear thing. I did address the records I've got an issue with, but it didn't seem to get through to you. Nobody in the real world gives a shit about how

3413:

I do not intend to address the debate of which records should be included and which should not. I removed various 'youngest' records from the fourth paragraph because they are mostly all provided already in better context in the second paragraph. That is, I remove one copy of repeated information

2074:

I had already changed it before reading this, to "On race day, Vettel made a better start, immediately took the lead and led the first half of the race. A delay at one of his pit stops gave the race lead to Alonso, who passed him in the pit lane, and dropped Vettel back to third, behind Hamilton.

1758:

So what? What he might consider notable (he doesn't even say that) is irrelevant here just like our individual opinions - it's what we as a whole consider notable that counts. He mentions it in his blog and makes a little table. It's a very minor source, alone in the whole of the internet, and it

1517:. I remember a similar case from a few years ago in which an editor started adding "records" like "Most 14th place qualifications" and "Most races finished in seventh position" to various driver articles - these were all true facts, but were they notable enough to merit inclusion in Knowledge?.-- 1455:

Ahh, but that is reference to material that is challenged for it's veracity. Do you challenge the veracity of any of these easily verifiable records by simply looking at race results in formula one history? Your problem and tghat other guys problem doesn't stem from the fact you don't believe the

869:

a logical deduction means it's a true deduction. If the data(original cite) concurs and is true, then it is not synthesis at all. You are purely stating a fact. And let's not conflate notability with factuality. If you want to debate something's notability, fine, but most records for sports stars

615:

These are not recognised statistics. They have all been made by pro-Vettel editors, who are making statistics simply to bolster the image of the driver. None of them have ever been recorded by any credible author. He doesn't actually hold the record for the final one. It's shared with James Hunt.

546:

I added that his current season start up to the 8th race is the second greatest in F1. Schumacher had a 7 win 1 DSQ. Vettel has six wins and 2 seconds. I know pretty much everyone would much rather have the six wins and 2 second finishes, so maybe the wording could be changed. A lot of it is word

320:

Umm, I'm here to ask about Vettel's complete F1 results. I believe that he was only a Test Driver for BMW for a while and therefore there is no need of a 2006 TD role. Several other articles would need this e.g. Kubica, Grosjean, Piquet Jr, Buemi, Liuzzi, Speed and many more. There have been many

2735:

3. Even if you somehow make a case that a significant portion of the paddocks approves of the booing, two incidents, one of which is one of team-orders, do not constitute a basis for an entire section on controversy. It wouldn't for anyone, not for Senna, not for Prost, not for Hamilton, not for

2472:

The booing has received widespread coverage and has been extensive it is not like a few people booed after one race. The booing has interrupted post race interviews before and has continued for more multiple races. It is also implied/explicitly stated from multiple sources that other drivers are

2137:

Do try and get over the Monaco GP thing - you talk like I was the only one who disagreed with you on that, and your total failure to understand what happened in Monaco is not making you look good. Neither is this to be honest - zero effect on the race? Didn't you watch it then? It was one of the

2015:

Additionally per wikipedia's guidelines, the text of a an article is significantly more important than the factiods. Again for example, the number of races won in a season is much more significant a statistic than number of races won under a certain age, because a season's efforts represents the

1562:

trivial fanboy garbage that has no place in an encyclopedia. The guidelines are right there, call it wikilawyering if you like, but they still stand. I don't get to determine whether a record is a record or not - the sources have to do that, and currently, they don't. Let me know when you find a

816:

well, it depends. some records are deduced logically. For instance, if there was a cite that he was the youngest driver to be on the podium, and you look at the cite and it says that he won the race. You can logically deduce he was the youngest to also win a race, as you can't win a race and not

2042:

Before this turns into an edit conflict, what needs to be considered is that stating 'Vettel finished second after ...team orders...' incorrectly implies that he finished second because of those team orders. Since Webber himself admits that he ignored the team orders and still tried to overtake

1594:

What is wrong with that record? Close your eyes for a moment and forget you are editing sebastian vettel's page, and just assume for a second the person's wiki you are editing has no records except for the one you are currently thinking about. Would you have a problem with its inclusion in that

2570:

If it is true the booing is condemned can you please provide sources for that claim as currently the sources for that section say things along the lines is Vettle has bought this on himself for x y and z reasons and needs to stop x y and z. The sources also contain accusations against other of

2011:

happen. It certainly does not make many of these minor statistics notable. A lesson in article writing if you will, sometimes stats are created simply for the purpose of creating content, because people will be, for as much time as it takes to read it, interested in such thing. Most will lose

1508:

What consensus? Bretonbanquet, THMW and I all disagree with you. We're not debating if Vettel actually holds these records, but rather if their inclusion in this article is appropriate. Leaving aside the issue of verifiability (i.e. that these records can be reliably sourced by third-party

1355:

It really isn't any logical extrapolation of what he said. Coming from someone whose points rarely make sense, your criticism is interesting. You think that drawing a line between trivia and relevance is absurd? I'd hate to see any encyclopedia that you were in charge of. Knowledge is not an

951:

Obviously top three / podium finishes are relevant and important. Go and check some sources to see how many talk about the top three, and then the zero that talk about the wondrous "top two". Again, you lose an argument and you always revert to the bad faith rubbish "you're not interested in

1212:. "What they meant to say" or "what they implied" is simply not acceptable. If what they actually said is incorrect, we can't just say, "Oh, but what they meant was this..." - it just cannot work that way, it's a synthesis of the source, and no peer review or GA review would ever accept it. 1563:

source. That's before we even start with the trivia violation and the fancruft violation. I also see that you don't think Vettel being caught by Webber "is anything to do with Vettel" - your obvious, clunking bias and edit-warring is very obstructive, and will not end well if continued.

817:

place on the podium. I'm not a stats expert o F!, btu that's where I assume the youngest to win with 2 different teams comes from. As if he surpassed the age of the last record holder with both his wins at STR and RB, it's simple logical deduction that does not require its own cite.

2731:

2. Interpreting Webber's words they way you choose to doesn't even address the paddock-wide condemnation of the booing. 5 minutes on Google netted 10 people who condemned it (said it was wrong), while all you come up with is one driver (+ Rosberg in your original link, which makes

1641:

While I know it doesn't matter in reaching a concesus, my personal view is that these records are actually about being the best/on top. The most 14th places or whatever isn't an achievement of skill, but fighting for the top spots is, which is why it was mentioned in several tv

1741:'One passing mention'? The article is called "Vettel making mockery of more records", so this is a record he considers notable. He dedicates two of twelve alinea's and a graph to it. He is considered a RS, so by your earlier points, our OPINIONS are irrelevant to that of a RS. 1698:"Some news outlets host interactive columns they call blogs, and these may be acceptable as sources so long as the writers are professional journalists or are professionals in the field on which they write and the blog is subject to the news outlet's full editorial control." 1185:

My point with the broadcasted statement is, that if you literally quote them, the wording makes the statement seem incorrect. So there NEEDS to be a choice, be a stickler or be correct. Top two finishes, implies race finishes, which you can see for yourself to be incorrect

971:

The reason I added the top two results was that it was mentioned by both tv shows I watch my F1 on (BBC -UK and RTL GP -the Netherlands) mentioned it. Records are rarely broken, that makes them so special, so saying that no one talks about them is kind of like saying the

2075:

Despite a malfunctioning KERS unit, he was able to pass Hamilton and held off Webber, who ignored a radio message from team principal Christian Horner to hold position, for second place, extending his lead in the championship." I think thisshould clarify the situation.--

1356:

indiscriminate collection of information - therefore it has to be decided what is worth putting in, and what is not. That is what we are doing here. You are implying that anything that's true (according to you) can be put in, sourced or not - which is arrant nonsense.

918:

many times in a row anyone's finished in the top two. If you want to be taken seriously, try understanding what I've said to you, do what everyone else does and follow the rules. The guidelines are there - if you want to add something as a record, find a source for it

2685:

appears to disagree with you about condemning the booing of Vettel. This whole back and forth and displaying of reactions goes to demonstrate the notability and noteworthiness of this and how controversial it has been. So this shows it is more than worth including.

1623:. Yes, I say no to it in this or any hypothetical article. Maybe you'd like to see "most wins before the age of 25", 26, 27, 28 etc etc etc... or maybe 24½... Before you start, if a British driver holds the "record" for most wins at age 26 or 27, that's trivia too. 2142:, no - but that's team orders for you. It doesn't matter if Vettel knew about it or not, why would that matter? I suspect I'm being trolled here - go and find anyone else who thinks that these team orders had "nothing to do with Vettel", and I'll discuss it then. 2217:

I guess it depends on your definition of having an effect. The racing itself, did not change. Without the team orders, Webber would also have attacked Vettel and would have also failed to overtake him. But anyway, I'm for inclusion, so it doesn't really matter.

1000:. The fact that these "records" are so hard to source strongly implies that this stuff is not notable. Nobody mentioned the validity of shared records, why bring that up? Keep your opinions on my insight to yourself in future. I've had just about enough of the 1727:

every race, for a start, because it's a sensible, important record. This other stuff doesn't get anywhere near a top source like FORIX. I'm tired of bashing away at this crap - I say these records are trivia, and not notable either. Let's see what others say.

1439:

Having sourced several of these records myself, I am challenging those records that are currently uncited or which have cites that do not support the material. If no sources can be found, these will be removed in a few days as unverifiable and/or not notable.

1385:

OK, in the complete absence of any sense from you, and any interest in formulating some kind of policy here except "include everything I say is a record", there's no point in discussing it with you. No conclusion can be reached with an attitude like yours.

2798:

I agree. I don't actually think we should have separate sections for any driver because they are intrinsically negative. Any notable controversies concerning a driver should be merged chronologically with the text to maintain a NPOV balance throughout.

1479:. Speaking of not liking facts, I see you removed from the article the fact that Webber was faster than Vettel at the end of the British GP, along with the reference. I've put that back. For someone who accuses others of bias, your own bias is chronic. 1340:

It's simply the logical conclusion of his semantic argument. The rest of his point made no sense "interesting enough to be relevant"? What does that even mean? What wiki rules is that editor basing such an absurd claim from? More interesting to whom?

1134:, even when things are notable and meticulously sourced with every F1 news source on the planet, it just doesn't cut the mustard with you, assuming whatever it is negatively reflects on something related to Lewis hamilton, the guy you don't even like. 2908:

Yes I meant 'current' drivers, sorry, english isn't my first language. I thought the list was relevant for being from the BBC sport website and all the staff working there made it. Anaway if we don't agree, that's ok for me. 13:24, 25 November 2013

976:

is just any other day because no one talks about it on the other 364 days of the year. Besides, I visit quite a few F1 websites and I don't see that many talks about top three finishes either. Again, only when such a record is (about to be)

719:. As far as defining "recognised statistics" goes, it means statistics that can be accurately sourced from a reliable source. Bollocks like "Most consecutive top two results (in both qualifying and race), from the start of the season" is 1886:

in. And the reason is obvious -- you folks against comprehensive records have no answer for it. Being the youngest driver to win maiden victories for two different teams is infinitely more notable than driving some random amount of races

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Should we mention in the introduction that Vettel was placed the 8th greatest driver of all the time in a 2012 BBC's poll, ahead of some actual drivers like Alonso and Hamilton? If nobody disagree i will feel free to add this fact.

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Oh sorry, you can't, because you just made it up, a total non-sequitur. Any more pathetic insults? Read the guidelines, follow the rules. It's that easy. If you don't want to do that, leave it for those that understand how it works.

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A formula one record belongs on a formula one drivers wikipage. Period. I didn't say "anything should be put in a wiki page". This is getting quite pathetic with you. Instead of actually discussing anything, you just make things

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I broadly agree with Bretonbanquet and Midgrid. Not every stat is a "record", and even if a stat is identified as a record by a RS doesn't automatically mean it merits inclusion in the article, it still needs to be sufficiently

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Consensus? You (Whatzinaname/66.190.31.229) and GameLegend constitute a consensus over the rest of us? You must think we're all stupid. Midgrid is right - not only can you not directly verify that these are records, but they're

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seems to throw in to nonsense the claim the booing 'is widely condemned by pretty much everyone in the paddock'. Also the sources make clear it 'multi-21' is just one part and in no way all of the reasoning behind the booing.

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If this record was not considered notable, it would not have been quoted by at least three tv broadcasters (BBC, RTL GP, RTL Germany (not the same as or related to Dutch RTL), and quoted in dozens of race reports, including

1078:(2 edit conflicts...) Point accepted regarding the bias angle. I've just noticed where someone questioned the validity of shared records - personally I don't have a problem with shared records. I will add that, according to 2881:

Drivers like Clark, Senna and Schumacher have a notice of often being considered the best driver in history. That is relevant, and if Vettel will ever reach that, we can talk about it. But as of now, it is not relevant.

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Vettel took part in the free practice sessions in 2006 as the BMW Sauber team's third driver. The "TD" stands for "Third Driver", not "Test Driver", and is only used for the relevant drivers from 2003 to 2006 such as

1475:, like the refs that I found for the other records. Readers are not obliged to go and make deductions using the results tables of a number of F1 drivers in order to verify that the facts are true - it's all there in 2511:

I was busy with other stuff and did not realise you had put this up for discussion. In fact, you could have easily just left me a message. Nevertheless, I do apologise for any inconvenience I may have caused you.

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I personally feel that rather than split off, the controversies are significantly overblown compared to other F1 drivers in history, so perhaps reducing the coverage of the controversies would be an improvement.

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I can only agree with Bretonbanquet above: "first to drive in a "Grand Prix meeting"" (whatever that means) seems like an unnecessary claim that doesn't add anything, to an otherwise extraordinary and phenomenal

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As written, I believe they are referencing both his qualifying and race results together. You are also wrong about alonso holding the finish record. I'm pretty sure schumacher has him beat by a country mile in

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Not really, no. There's more than one way to skin a cat. One passing mention in a blog, "professional" or not... It's still trivia, and you've admitted that it is. You'll have to build a consensus to include

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Champion, and looks likely to defend his crown, he should have as much or more information about him than the other drivers on the grid who have also won one championship, although I am slightly bias.

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What is the purpose of this section? What informational value does it have that can't be seen from season articles? I get that Vettel is pretty amazing, but do other drivers have a similar section?

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This is a pretty woolly claim, since Vettel is not actually entered for the Turkish Grand Prix. He's a Friday test driver, and as such isn't really the youngest driver to take part in a Grand Prix.

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I agree about some of them needing some kind of cite-able references, but I do not agree that is what was being referred to. He called the records "fabricated", not un-sourced. Quite the difference

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Ya, I'm supposed "get over" your colossal double standards when it comes british F1 drivers versus non-british while you are editing a non-british drivers wiki. Fat chance, man.You made your bed

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I haven't heard the broadcast since it was live, and I don't remember it, nor can I check it, so it's not the greatest source to use. I checked with the RS noticeboard and it's acceptable but it

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The current level of disruptive editing to this article would be considered insufficient to justify protection. If it starts happening more frequently, I'm sure someone will request protection.

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How has this got nothing to do with Vettel? Horner says to Webber "maintain the gap" - to whom? Vettel. And you say it's got nothing to with Vettel. It's clearly very relevant to this article.

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Good use of statistics is used to assist in the telling of a subjects story. Compiling lists of statistics simply because you can is fancruft behavior. The story comes first, not the factoids.

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Schumacher's controversies and Alonso's controversies involve (borderline) cheating, condemned by pretty much everyone in the paddock (bar Flavio) and can't be counted on one's hands anymore.

296:), whereas many of the actual statistics are not officially recorded and have no actual value, i.e. there is no FIA/Formula One "Hall of Fame" for the youngest driver to achieve x, y or z.-- 1262:

That depends on your definition of a record. Since you say that any verifiable fact is noteworthy, then hundreds of them have records, most of them utterly trivial, like some of Vettel's.

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The first thing that needs to be fixed is that not a single one of these records is cited. Anything that can't be reliably sourced as a record should go, either as non-notable fancruft or

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the season is considered notable, then the bigger picture can be regarded as notable as well, since 'from the start of the season' is a deduction from total consecutive in any situation.

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Please remove these accordingly, as my attempt to reduce the list to appropriate records are simply reverted and I am the one who is accused of being a negative influence on Knowledge.

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hypothetical. So the guy has no recors, oh but wait, he's complied more wins than anyone else before the age of 24. You say no to that inclusion in the wiki?23:38, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

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to what underwear someone wears? Just shows your insight into this... Three of Schumacher's all-time records are shared with other drivers. Does that make those FACTS any less valid?

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ESPN is a minor source? While Formula One may not be the biggest sport in America, you can not seriously say that ESPN is a minor source. ESPN is a more mayor source than Autosport.

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Is this section necessary? They're both German Grand Prix winners; all the rest of the material in that section is just fluff or irrelevant details about Vettel's chassis names.--

2571:"stirring up" the booing. Some not any where near universal or even most of the paddock have condemned the booing. I doubt Webber has condemned the booing. The BBC article titled 2682: 1456:

veracity of the record, just you don't think the record belongs, for whatever strange reasons you have. You simply don't like the facts, you don't question their factual nature.

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Current car name is "Kate's Dirty Sister" as Kate came to a end after shunt in the Australian Grand Prix. He also carries lucky coins in his pockets or boots when he is racing

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You can be offended as you like, or claim you do not care for the opinions of others as much as you like, neither is not of any assistance in good wikipedia article writing. --

1437:"All material in Knowledge articles must be attributable to a reliable published source. This means that a source must exist for it, whether or not it is cited in the article." 1190:. That's why I want to add the clarification that it is top two finishes when counting both the qualifying and the race result; however we want to word that, is another thing. 3701: 2261: 3711: 1704:

is going to publish that, since it's not interesting to mention every race, but that doesn't mean it's an un-notabale record, whether quoted after race 300, 309 or 316.

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In terms of informational value, it collects all the information into one place, thereby avoiding a reader having to view 9 separate articles to find the information.

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I've edited every single F1 driver's article, past and present, and if you think I've introduced bias in any of them, report it. Keep up the insults. I'm saving them.

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and discussing, as if there is an absence of discussion when started it stands to reason that being bold is the way forward or nothing would ever get changed or done.

723:, synthesised from the statistics. It's not a recognised record anywhere else, nor is it even slightly important. Hamilton's stats and records should be discussed at 88:

He is the youngest driver to be involved in a GP weekend though! He is a stand in driver which still, is officially entered- as such, official stand in. Nat Lockwood.

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So... none of the records you just added in black type are accurately sourced? I've even left two of them in for now, because I'm so biased against Vettel. /sarcasm

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https://web.archive.org/web/20150402164001/http://www.sebastianvettel.de/index.php/galerien/helme-helmets/helme-helmets-2015/27-02-2015-helm-helmet-scuderia-ferrari

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but not in this driver's case. He is sensationally successful, without achieving this by untoward behaviour. Some people resent success, that is the notable thing.

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https://web.archive.org/web/20120430012316/http://formula-one.speedtv.com/article/f1-helmut-marko-eyes-sebastian-vettel-contract-extension-to-2016/work=SPEEDTV.com

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I fear such a viewpoint, that the record(s) should have to be on the aformentioned page, will just result in these editors putting those statistics on that page.

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World Championship, the most significant statistic in all of motor racing. Where as the age of 24 is not a stopping point for any kind of significant measurement.

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https://web.archive.org/web/20120209075913/http://www.redbullracing.com/cs/Satellite/en_INT/Article/F1-2012--Sebastian-Vettel-On-The-Season-Ahead-021243159170581

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I concur, some of the nominated stats appear to have been created specifically for the point of being mentioned, which as someone who works in motorsport media,

1098:? If the record for top two finishes in races is held by Alonso, then Vettel's record is even more tenuous and abstract. Plus I'm sure you'll be rushing over to 3839: 1090:

information. If there's no source that mentions qualifying, then it's unsourced and should go. Where is this BBC/RTL claim repeated on the internet? Anywhere

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I've removed the references to number of records, as I believe it is inappropriate: the editor who added it was referring to another Knowledge article (see

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I despise myself for having noticed this, but since I did it, you'll find that ten seconds with google will give you thousands of sources like this one...

3655: 3001: 798:(e/c) It really doesn't matter what anyone personally thinks. I'm not saying the stat itself is untrue, but if there's no reference anywhere to it being 755:

Not some of them - all of them. And if some of these records turn out to be unsourceable, then they are indeed fabricated. It amounts to the same thing.

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Red Bull's Sebastian Vettel headed Ferrari's Fernando Alonso in second practice at the Canadian Grand Prix as McLaren failed to repeat their early pace.

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This article was automatically assessed because at least one article was rated and this bot brought all the other ratings up to at least that level.

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is the only alternative available. I changed it to the current photo last month because it shows Vettel in the clothing of his new team, Red Bull.--

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I'm sorry, I'm curious: how do you think you know enough about the subject of booing to want to make it into a section, but you somehow missed that

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a record simple is or isn't. Let me know when you find a record that isn't a record and then we can talk. Even obscure records are still records.

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Formula one records are trivia now? ROFLMAO. The "trivia" isn't in many other driver's articles because the vast majority don't hold any records.

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his record for getting a penalty SIX Seconds into his career is not mentioned, it should be since he was the youngest/fastest to do everything.

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system, rendering it pointless and misleading. Second, it's unsourced, and third, it requires someone to work it out after each race, making it

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https://web.archive.org/web/20101126151615/http://blogs.bettor.com/Sebastian-Vettel-refuses-to-compare-himself-to-Michael-Schumacher-a43079

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http://www.perthnow.com.au/sport/grand-prix-2011/frustrated-mark-webber-ignored-team-orders-in-vettel-chase/story-fn7r7gmb-1226092001816

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Why does your question imply that Vettel is not an "actual driver"? My answer in no, not in the introduction and probably not anywhere.

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https://archive.is/20140112170439/http://grandprix247.com/2013/12/27/vettel-voted-by-agencies-as-2013-european-sportsman-of-the-year/

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3705: 3274: 1429:"...any material challenged or likely to be challenged must be attributed to a reliable published source using an inline citation." 2185:

was talked about a lot, but had no effect on the race. The only difference here is that it COULD have had effect, but, it didn't.

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So despite the fact the BBC considers the record (consecutive top two finishes from start of season) notable, you say it is not?

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hamilton's racism charges agiasnt the Monaco stewards in the Monaco race wiki merits notability. But this does? Simply amazing.

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https://web.archive.org/web/20121028075757/http://www.sebastianvettel.de/index.php/en/helmdesign-fans-en/532-helmet-italy-2012

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If you're purely stating a fact, then it'd be fine. But you're calling it a record when nobody else on the planet has done so

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http://www.sportinglife.com/others/news/story_get.cgi?STORY_NAME=others%2F12%2F04%2F14%2FAUTO_Chinese_Vettel.html&BID=678

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have a date with the ref, and preferably a link as well. One other thing that is absolutely certain is that we have to go on

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The article says "Sebastian Vettel holds 10 entries in the list of Formula One driver records, of which he holds 8". Huh?

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https://web.archive.org/web/20141006101046/http://www.gpupdate.net/en/f1-news/307766/engine-software-issue-hinders-vettel/

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serious. Speak to the notability of the actual stat you have issue with or stop commenting with ridiculous exaggerations.

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http://www.sebastianvettel.de/index.php/galerien/helme-helmets/helme-helmets-2015/27-02-2015-helm-helmet-scuderia-ferrari

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https://web.archive.org/web/20131127190343/http://www.racedepartment.com/2013/09/f1-to-boo-or-not-to-boo-opinion-roundup/

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http://formula-one.speedtv.com/article/f1-helmut-marko-eyes-sebastian-vettel-contract-extension-to-2016/work=SPEEDTV.com

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I personally don't care if something gets sourced if I know it's true. Unsourced does not mean fabricated, far from it.

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http://www.redbullracing.com/cs/Satellite/en_INT/Article/F1-2012--Sebastian-Vettel-On-The-Season-Ahead-021243159170581

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http://www.express.de/motorsport/seine-hanna-ist-schwanger-wird-papa-vettel-auch-windel-meister-,4595266,25585790.html

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https://web.archive.org/web/20131203023735/http://dalje.com/en-sports/webber-slams-hamilton-for-erratic-driving/86755

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on archived version. There is no information. Second one reference looks bit poor. Looks like it is only once. Fake?

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as well then? Is this a project-wide addition, because it honestly seems like a really superficial section to have.

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https://web.archive.org/web/20140106042338/http://www.servustv.com/cs/Satellite/Article/Der-Champion-011259461828622

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https://archive.is/20120906023521/http://www.planet-f1.com/driver/18227/7009904/Marko-Diffuser-ban-will-cost-Bulls

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I'd be happy with that, although like Bretonbanquet, I'd also be happy for the double and triple records to stay.

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https://web.archive.org/web/20071015201248/http://flagworld.auto123.com/en/racing/news/index,view.spy?artid=87349

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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the

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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the

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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the

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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the

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publications, and that they are recognised as significant records), in my opinion, the unlinked records violate

1018:

Nobody said that a bias was being created, where did you get that garbage from? Are you attributing that to me?

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should stay. These are the kind of abolute records usually found in driver bios. The rest are fanboy cruft.

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other unamed drivers who don't have TD roles e.g. Jules Bianchi, Hulkenberg and the old timer Jabouille. (

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https://web.archive.org/web/20101130063145/http://www.autoweek.com/article/20101127/MOTORSPORTS/101129928

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hold several "youngest driver to" records that have since nearly all been broken in the lead paragraph?

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If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with

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https://web.archive.org/web/20071027101425/http://www.planet-f1.com/story/0,18954,3213_2826546,00.html

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https://web.archive.org/web/20080916051109/http://www.planet-f1.com/story/0,18954,3213_4148169,00.html

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https://web.archive.org/web/20111031092248/http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2011/10/12725.html

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the Michael Schumacher controversy section for comparison purposes of a similar drivers page section

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http://grandprix247.com/2013/12/27/vettel-voted-by-agencies-as-2013-european-sportsman-of-the-year/

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According to the BBC coverage before the Chinese GP Sebastien names his car with a females name! --

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as the article to emulate. It has all the 'controversies' integrated on a topical basis – as per

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smithing and semantics. I see schumacher's year as more dominant, but vettel's as better/greater.

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before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template

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before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template

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http://blogs.bettor.com/Sebastian-Vettel-refuses-to-compare-himself-to-Michael-Schumacher-a43079

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before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template

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https://web.archive.org/web/20070930213407/http://www.formula1.com/results/season/2006/764/6330/

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Wow, you "left them in". What an unsung hero you are. It seems that with you, though, like here

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Feel free to add this to the article yourself if you want, but of course, try not to be biased.

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Do we really want this trivia in all the driver articles? If you don't, nip it in the bud now.

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https://web.archive.org/web/20070716204119/http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?PO_ID=39687

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Hello everyone. I have a question about Champ car test. Why the first reference is linked to

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biggest talking points of the race, and they're still talking about it now. No effect on the

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Most consecutive top two results (in both qualifying and race), from the start of the season

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https://web.archive.org/web/20080915060755/http://www.itv-f1.com/news_article.aspx?id=43959

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https://web.archive.org/web/20130320194903/http://www.formula1.com/results/season/2013/893/

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article should not be included, unless it is as an aside in the main body of the article.--

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Sections on this page over one year old archived using the stadnard format. Link here -

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Since it affects multiple articles, you may care to raise the matter for discussion at

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tried to pass Vettel, Vettel was able to hold him off and finish second behind Alonso.

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winning racces and finishing in the top 2 is irrelevant, but being british is relevant

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It's a trivial quirk of statistics, and it's recentism. So probably not I predict. --

1040:"He doesn't actually hold the record for the final one. It's shared with James Hunt." 1001: 847: 595:

There are an alarming amount of fabricated records on this page. They are as follow:

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Is your intent to delete every wikipage, then? As they are all nothing but "trivia".

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What's wrong with it? It's utterly, utterly arbitrary trivia that GameLegend found

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then it's not a record, it's unsourced and will be deleted from any records table.

720: 716: 653: 451:, is Vettel the only driver to win the title without having led the points chase? 448: 410: 352: 343: 298: 255: 2615: 1433:"You may remove any material lacking a reliable source that directly supports it." 1871:

The "..with 2 different teams" record is still not a record, but a trivial fact.

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http://www.planet-f1.com/driver/18227/7009904/Marko-Diffuser-ban-will-cost-Bulls

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If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the

3686:

http://sebastianvettel.de/index.php/en/helmdesign-fans-en/532-helmet-italy-2012

3309:

http://www.gpupdate.net/en/f1-news/307766/engine-software-issue-hinders-vettel/

3868:. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than 3734:. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than 3544:. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than 3526:

http://www.racedepartment.com/2013/09/f1-to-boo-or-not-to-boo-opinion-roundup/

3327:. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than 2975: 2388:

Having posted this over three weeks ago I shall now add this as a section.

3506:

http://dalje.com/en-sports/webber-slams-hamilton-for-erratic-driving/86755

2920:

I just want to know what is so important or noteworthy about this list. --

3636:

http://www.servustv.com/cs/Satellite/Article/Der-Champion-011259461828622

1805:♠World Champion having not been championship leader before in the season 1837:

World Champion having not been championship leader before in the season

1423:

With the attempt at reaching a sensible agreement seemingly at an end,

611:

World Champion having not been championship leader before in the season

3496:

http://flagworld.auto123.com/en/racing/news/index,view.spy?artid=87349

1034:"who are making statistics simply to bolster the image of the driver" 3034:

Ach nein, I was wrong! Prater gets thousands more hits than Sprater

1580:???? You have to be kidding. This is like some kind of black farce. 2094:

a driver but a bunch of assides he had no active role in. So be it.

228:

It seems rather unflattering - maybe there would be a better one?

2438:. Also, I think devoting a whole section to 'booing' is a case of 163:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/8005641.stm

1834:

Youngest Grand Prix winner at the same track on two occasions and

471:

also clinched the title without leading the championship before.

3676:

http://www.autoweek.com/article/20101127/MOTORSPORTS/101129928

1700:

Do you now see the loophole with trying to do things this way?

599:

Most consecutive top two results (in both qualifying and race)

25: 3012:

Though Prater would be great for lovers of Vienna. Regards

2043:

Vettel, IF it needs to be included, it needs to be reworded:

1935:

Ok, to move forwards to a conclusion, who can agree on this:

3192:

only available for edit from autoconfirmed users? Regards.

3850:

http://www.planet-f1.com/story/0,18954,3213_2826546,00.html

3826:

http://www.planet-f1.com/story/0,18954,3213_4148169,00.html

608:

Youngest Grand Prix winner at the same track on 2 occasions

3816:

for additional information. I made the following changes:

3626:

for additional information. I made the following changes:

3476:

for additional information. I made the following changes:

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for additional information. I made the following changes:

2642:

condemned it, and this is just after 5 minutes on Google.

1677:

Firstly, the source you added is a blog, so it fails as a

3289:

http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2011/10/12725.html

1004:

accusations, and next time I'm going to report somebody.

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http://www.formula1.com/results/season/2006/764/6330/

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and similar non-records listed there should also go.

502:

Comparison with other articles on Formula One Drivers

3187:

Make editing accessible only to autoconfirmed users?

2483:

the addition of a section without proper discussion.

1539:

asking for other editors' opinions on this matter.--

3872:using the archive tool instructions below. Editors 3738:using the archive tool instructions below. Editors 3548:using the archive tool instructions below. Editors 3486:

http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?PO_ID=39687

3331:using the archive tool instructions below. Editors 647:I agree - I think any "record" not included in the 447:The SpeedChannel commentary team not qualifying as 1831:Youngest Grand Prix winner for two different teams 2310:This needs to be added as of Suzuka, 2011 race. 1971:. I'm OK with deleting the others you mentioned. 1828:. From the existing list, I'd personally delete: 1802:♠Youngest Grand Prix winner for 2 different teams 3646:http://www.itv-f1.com/news_article.aspx?id=43959 3299:http://www.formula1.com/results/season/2013/893/ 1857:is borderline and he is co-holder of the record. 605:Youngest Grand Prix winner for 2 different teams 1045:bit of OR to clarify what was meant to be said? 3858:This message was posted before February 2018. 3724:This message was posted before February 2018. 3534:This message was posted before February 2018. 3317:This message was posted before February 2018. 2337:the article (if it isn't already worthwhile). 350:takes part in free practice for Force India.-- 1102:to add his record if it's not there already. 8: 2948:The name of Sebastian´s girlfriend is Hanna 2373:body of the text in to a separate section. 998:an indiscriminate collection of information 3135: 3083: 346:etc. It will be used again this year when 3804:I have just modified 2 external links on 3614:I have just modified 9 external links on 3464:I have just modified 5 external links on 3257:I have just modified 4 external links on 467:The second in history; James Hunt in the 2254: 206:The 2011 cars name is "Kinky Kylie". -- 3797:External links modified (January 2018) 44:Do not edit the contents of this page. 3165:the Formula One WikiProject talk page 7: 2878:I think he means 'current' driver. 294:Knowledge:Self-references to avoid 24: 3808:. Please take a moment to review 3618:. Please take a moment to review 3468:. Please take a moment to review 3394:Is it important to state that he 3261:. Please take a moment to review 2573:Vettel rivals 'encouraged booing' 3442:, or use navigation box at top. 2368:A separate controversies section 2199:It didn't have an effect on the 404:Comparison to Michael Schumacher 29: 3440:Talk:Sebastian Vettel/Archive 1 3044:16:58, 29 September 2014 (UTC) 3022:16:51, 29 September 2014 (UTC) 2984:16:39, 29 September 2014 (UTC) 2850:Why is this list important? -- 2306:Youngest Double World Champion 1842:and maybe a couple of others. 1578:Most wins before the age of 24 784:'record' in its truest sense. 422:18:00, 14 September 2010 (UTC) 1: 3792:00:11, 23 December 2017 (UTC) 3602:03:05, 21 November 2017 (UTC) 3177:12:45, 26 February 2015 (UTC) 3150:12:29, 26 February 2015 (UTC) 3122:11:35, 26 February 2015 (UTC) 3098:09:58, 26 February 2015 (UTC) 2930:14:38, 25 November 2013 (UTC) 2892:22:08, 24 November 2013 (UTC) 2874:10:32, 24 November 2013 (UTC) 2860:03:17, 24 November 2013 (UTC) 2843:02:43, 24 November 2013 (UTC) 2809:23:09, 19 November 2013 (UTC) 2794:22:56, 19 November 2013 (UTC) 2778:22:22, 19 November 2013 (UTC) 2746:20:37, 18 November 2013 (UTC) 2696:20:03, 18 November 2013 (UTC) 2652:15:35, 18 November 2013 (UTC) 2586:15:20, 18 November 2013 (UTC) 2550:15:00, 18 November 2013 (UTC) 2522:00:20, 19 November 2013 (UTC) 2501:14:45, 18 November 2013 (UTC) 2452:11:16, 18 November 2013 (UTC) 2420:14:01, 17 November 2013 (UTC) 2398:13:50, 17 November 2013 (UTC) 494:01:39, 16 November 2010 (UTC) 485:Thanks awfully, old boy. :) 481:09:52, 15 November 2010 (UTC) 462:09:37, 15 November 2010 (UTC) 3926:05:03, 23 January 2018 (UTC) 3452:13:46, 5 November 2017 (UTC) 3428:13:19, 5 November 2017 (UTC) 3415: 2383:22:19, 28 October 2013 (UTC) 2326:00:27, 6 December 2011 (UTC) 2300:20:36, 13 October 2011 (UTC) 316:Complete Formula One results 310:11:32, 2 November 2009 (UTC) 287:11:24, 2 November 2009 (UTC) 124:16:16, 13 October 2011 (UTC) 3078:Comparison with team-mates? 3058:They stand at 1496 not 94. 2285:08:01, 9 October 2011 (UTC) 2038:2011 British GP team orders 1132:Talk:2011 Monaco Grand Prix 536:01:31, 7 January 2012 (UTC) 139:04:18, 28 August 2007 (UTC) 84:11:45, 25 August 2006 (UTC) 3941: 3889:(last update: 5 June 2024) 3801:Hello fellow Wikipedians, 3755:(last update: 5 June 2024) 3611:Hello fellow Wikipedians, 3565:(last update: 5 June 2024) 3461:Hello fellow Wikipedians, 3348:(last update: 5 June 2024) 3254:Hello fellow Wikipedians, 3245:21:19, 27 April 2016 (UTC) 2968:13:10, 29 March 2014 (UTC) 2620:Dominicali, di Montezemolo 2362:13:47, 22 April 2012 (UTC) 2347:13:40, 22 April 2012 (UTC) 2275:Pls change to 2010, 2011 364:19:54, 18 March 2010 (UTC) 331:19:47, 18 March 2010 (UTC) 202:12:39, 24 April 2009 (UTC) 185:06:50, 19 April 2009 (UTC) 158:06:45, 19 April 2009 (UTC) 3408:19:31, 26 June 2017 (UTC) 3217:10:29, 9 April 2015 (UTC) 3202:22:53, 5 April 2015 (UTC) 2817:BBC greatest drivers list 2228:00:49, 12 July 2011 (UTC) 2213:00:38, 12 July 2011 (UTC) 2195:00:23, 12 July 2011 (UTC) 2180:23:23, 11 July 2011 (UTC) 2166:23:19, 11 July 2011 (UTC) 2152:23:11, 11 July 2011 (UTC) 2133:23:02, 11 July 2011 (UTC) 2118:22:58, 11 July 2011 (UTC) 2104:22:56, 11 July 2011 (UTC) 2089:22:01, 11 July 2011 (UTC) 2032:18:41, 23 July 2011 (UTC) 1995:02:33, 14 July 2011 (UTC) 1981:18:01, 13 July 2011 (UTC) 1962:16:00, 13 July 2011 (UTC) 1948:11:54, 13 July 2011 (UTC) 1930:19:05, 12 July 2011 (UTC) 1896:17:05, 12 July 2011 (UTC) 1881:16:40, 12 July 2011 (UTC) 1867:15:13, 12 July 2011 (UTC) 1852:03:38, 12 July 2011 (UTC) 1819:03:14, 12 July 2011 (UTC) 1795:01:25, 12 July 2011 (UTC) 1769:00:58, 12 July 2011 (UTC) 1754:00:37, 12 July 2011 (UTC) 1737:00:33, 12 July 2011 (UTC) 1714:00:17, 12 July 2011 (UTC) 1691:00:08, 12 July 2011 (UTC) 1656:23:59, 11 July 2011 (UTC) 1633:23:50, 11 July 2011 (UTC) 1590:22:45, 11 July 2011 (UTC) 1573:22:20, 11 July 2011 (UTC) 1553:22:12, 11 July 2011 (UTC) 1531:22:09, 11 July 2011 (UTC) 1504:21:18, 11 July 2011 (UTC) 1489:19:19, 11 July 2011 (UTC) 1466:00:07, 11 July 2011 (UTC) 1450:20:29, 10 July 2011 (UTC) 1396:20:12, 10 July 2011 (UTC) 1381:18:50, 10 July 2011 (UTC) 1366:11:14, 10 July 2011 (UTC) 1351:06:33, 10 July 2011 (UTC) 1336:00:46, 10 July 2011 (UTC) 1321:00:09, 10 July 2011 (UTC) 1094:? What did they actually 585:03:49, 30 June 2011 (UTC) 557:18:43, 26 June 2011 (UTC) 437:03:01, 11 June 2011 (UTC) 397:14:54, 12 June 2010 (UTC) 216:20:39, 10 June 2011 (UTC) 3072:14:47, 29 May 2014 (UTC) 2736:Vettel, not for Webber. 2728:1. It has been included. 1307:23:07, 9 July 2011 (UTC) 1272:22:14, 9 July 2011 (UTC) 1258:22:04, 9 July 2011 (UTC) 1244:20:52, 9 July 2011 (UTC) 1222:21:18, 8 July 2011 (UTC) 1200:21:03, 8 July 2011 (UTC) 1180:19:53, 8 July 2011 (UTC) 1144:02:42, 8 July 2011 (UTC) 1126:23:52, 7 July 2011 (UTC) 1112:23:46, 7 July 2011 (UTC) 1072:02:34, 8 July 2011 (UTC) 1055:23:39, 7 July 2011 (UTC) 1028:23:31, 7 July 2011 (UTC) 1014:23:25, 7 July 2011 (UTC) 991:22:40, 7 July 2011 (UTC) 967:22:00, 7 July 2011 (UTC) 947:21:21, 7 July 2011 (UTC) 932:21:08, 7 July 2011 (UTC) 913:20:34, 7 July 2011 (UTC) 898:20:01, 7 July 2011 (UTC) 880:19:28, 7 July 2011 (UTC) 864:19:12, 7 July 2011 (UTC) 846:Not strictly true. Read 827:19:01, 7 July 2011 (UTC) 812:18:31, 7 July 2011 (UTC) 794:18:30, 7 July 2011 (UTC) 779:18:23, 7 July 2011 (UTC) 765:18:07, 7 July 2011 (UTC) 751:18:03, 7 July 2011 (UTC) 737:17:39, 7 July 2011 (UTC) 711:17:34, 7 July 2011 (UTC) 694:16:31, 7 July 2011 (UTC) 665:12:33, 7 July 2011 (UTC) 640:11:29, 7 July 2011 (UTC) 542:2011 start to the season 521:04:25, 24 May 2011 (UTC) 267:18:08, 10 May 2009 (UTC) 244:15:54, 10 May 2009 (UTC) 130:WikiProject class rating 3607:External links modified 3457:External links modified 3385:22:28, 4 May 2017 (UTC) 3250:External links modified 3112:have similar sections. 1326:are you trying to say? 1210:what they actually said 469:1976 Formula One season 75:Youngest ever F1 driver 1427:states the following: 565:Penalty record Missing 42:of past discussions. 18:Talk:Sebastian Vettel 3870:regular verification 3736:regular verification 3546:regular verification 3329:regular verification 2952:prater not Prater. 2271:2010-2011? (Infobox) 1535:P.S. I've posted at 886:in a reliable source 273:Holds 10 of holds 8? 3860:After February 2018 3726:After February 2018 3536:After February 2018 3319:After February 2018 725:Talk:Lewis Hamilton 649:Formula One records 427:I added a bit more 3914:InternetArchiveBot 3865:InternetArchiveBot 3780:InternetArchiveBot 3731:InternetArchiveBot 3590:InternetArchiveBot 3541:InternetArchiveBot 3434:Talk page archived 3373:InternetArchiveBot 3324:InternetArchiveBot 3132:Michael Schumacher 2944:Name of Girlfriend 2688:Sport and politics 2578:Sport and politics 2493:Sport and politics 2430:I would point out 2412:Sport and politics 2390:Sport and politics 2375:Sport and politics 1431:. It also states: 443:Coming from behind 3890: 3756: 3566: 3390:Opening Paragraph 3349: 3152: 3140:comment added by 3100: 3088:comment added by 2958:comment added by 2846: 2829:comment added by 2316:comment added by 2071: 2057:comment added by 1813: 1616: 1602:comment added by 1080:WP:INDISCRIMINATE 697: 680:comment added by 643: 626:comment added by 575:comment added by 456: 400: 383:comment added by 234:comment added by 188: 171:comment added by 109: 95:comment added by 72: 71: 54: 53: 48:current talk page 3932: 3924: 3915: 3888: 3887: 3866: 3837: 3806:Sebastian Vettel 3790: 3781: 3754: 3753: 3732: 3616:Sebastian Vettel 3600: 3591: 3564: 3563: 3542: 3466:Sebastian Vettel 3418:on that topic). 3383: 3374: 3347: 3346: 3325: 3259:Sebastian Vettel 2970: 2845: 2823: 2328: 2264: 2259: 2087: 2085: 2080: 2070: 2051: 1814: 1811: 1696:To quote WP:RS: 1615: 1596: 1551: 1549: 1544: 1529: 1527: 1522: 696: 674: 663: 661: 656: 642: 620: 587: 489: 457: 454: 420: 418: 413: 399: 377: 362: 360: 355: 340:Anthony Davidson 308: 306: 301: 265: 263: 258: 246: 187: 173:Thelostlibertine 165: 150:Thelostlibertine 108: 89: 63: 56: 55: 33: 32: 26: 3940: 3939: 3935: 3934: 3933: 3931: 3930: 3929: 3918: 3913: 3881: 3874:have permission 3864: 3831: 3814:this simple FaQ 3799: 3784: 3779: 3747: 3740:have permission 3730: 3624:this simple FaQ 3609: 3594: 3589: 3557: 3550:have permission 3540: 3474:this simple FaQ 3459: 3436: 3416:archived thread 3392: 3377: 3372: 3340: 3333:have permission 3323: 3267:this simple FaQ 3252: 3225: 3189: 3080: 3062:Fixed. 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3195: 3186: 3178: 3174: 3170: 3166: 3162: 3161: 3160: 3159: 3158: 3157: 3151: 3147: 3143: 3142:85.23.126.238 3139: 3133: 3129: 3128: 3127: 3126: 3123: 3119: 3115: 3111: 3107: 3103: 3102: 3101: 3099: 3095: 3091: 3090:85.23.126.238 3087: 3077: 3073: 3069: 3065: 3061: 3060: 3059: 3054:Career Points 3053: 3045: 3041: 3037: 3033: 3032: 3031: 3030: 3029: 3028: 3023: 3019: 3015: 3011: 3010: 3009: 3008: 3003: 3000: 2999: 2998: 2997: 2991: 2990: 2989: 2988: 2985: 2981: 2977: 2973: 2972: 2971: 2969: 2965: 2961: 2960:92.211.37.130 2957: 2951: 2943: 2931: 2927: 2923: 2919: 2918: 2916: 2912: 2907: 2906: 2905: 2904: 2903: 2902: 2901: 2900: 2893: 2889: 2885: 2880: 2877: 2876: 2875: 2871: 2867: 2863: 2862: 2861: 2857: 2853: 2849: 2848: 2847: 2844: 2840: 2836: 2832: 2828: 2816: 2810: 2806: 2802: 2801:Bretonbanquet 2797: 2796: 2795: 2791: 2787: 2782: 2781: 2780: 2779: 2775: 2771: 2767: 2747: 2743: 2739: 2734: 2730: 2727: 2726: 2725: 2724: 2723: 2722: 2721: 2720: 2719: 2718: 2717: 2716: 2715: 2714: 2713: 2712: 2697: 2693: 2689: 2684: 2679: 2678: 2677: 2676: 2675: 2674: 2673: 2672: 2671: 2670: 2669: 2668: 2667: 2666: 2653: 2649: 2645: 2641: 2637: 2636:Murray Walker 2633: 2629: 2625: 2621: 2617: 2613: 2609: 2608: 2607: 2606: 2605: 2604: 2603: 2602: 2601: 2600: 2599: 2598: 2587: 2583: 2579: 2574: 2569: 2568: 2567: 2566: 2565: 2564: 2563: 2562: 2561: 2560: 2551: 2547: 2543: 2538: 2535: 2534: 2533: 2532: 2531: 2530: 2529: 2528: 2523: 2519: 2515: 2510: 2509: 2508: 2507: 2502: 2498: 2494: 2491: 2490: 2489: 2488: 2481: 2480: 2479: 2478: 2471: 2470: 2469: 2468: 2461: 2460: 2459: 2458: 2453: 2449: 2445: 2441: 2437: 2433: 2429: 2428: 2427: 2426: 2421: 2417: 2413: 2409: 2405: 2404: 2403: 2402: 2399: 2395: 2391: 2387: 2386: 2385: 2384: 2380: 2376: 2367: 2363: 2359: 2355: 2351: 2350: 2349: 2348: 2344: 2340: 2339:71.215.176.20 2331: 2329: 2327: 2323: 2319: 2315: 2305: 2301: 2297: 2293: 2292:87.183.108.48 2289: 2288: 2287: 2286: 2282: 2278: 2270: 2263: 2258: 2255: 2229: 2225: 2221: 2216: 2215: 2214: 2210: 2206: 2205:Bretonbanquet 2202: 2198: 2197: 2196: 2192: 2188: 2183: 2182: 2181: 2177: 2173: 2172:Bretonbanquet 2169: 2168: 2167: 2163: 2159: 2155: 2154: 2153: 2149: 2145: 2144:Bretonbanquet 2141: 2136: 2135: 2134: 2130: 2126: 2121: 2120: 2119: 2115: 2111: 2110:Bretonbanquet 2107: 2106: 2105: 2101: 2097: 2092: 2091: 2090: 2086: 2081: 2073: 2072: 2068: 2064: 2060: 2056: 2050: 2046: 2045: 2044: 2037: 2033: 2029: 2025: 2021: 2018: 2014: 2010: 2006: 1996: 1992: 1988: 1984: 1983: 1982: 1978: 1974: 1973:Bretonbanquet 1970: 1965: 1964: 1963: 1959: 1955: 1951: 1950: 1949: 1945: 1941: 1937: 1936: 1934: 1933: 1932: 1931: 1927: 1923: 1922:Bretonbanquet 1897: 1893: 1889: 1884: 1883: 1882: 1878: 1874: 1870: 1869: 1868: 1864: 1860: 1855: 1854: 1853: 1849: 1845: 1841: 1836: 1833: 1830: 1829: 1827: 1822: 1821: 1820: 1817: 1815: 1807: 1804: 1801: 1798: 1797: 1796: 1792: 1788: 1784: 1780: 1775: 1772: 1771: 1770: 1766: 1762: 1761:Bretonbanquet 1757: 1756: 1755: 1751: 1747: 1743: 1740: 1739: 1738: 1734: 1730: 1729:Bretonbanquet 1725: 1721: 1717: 1716: 1715: 1711: 1707: 1702: 1699: 1695: 1694: 1693: 1692: 1688: 1684: 1683:Bretonbanquet 1680: 1657: 1653: 1649: 1644: 1640: 1636: 1635: 1634: 1630: 1626: 1625:Bretonbanquet 1622: 1618: 1617: 1613: 1609: 1605: 1601: 1593: 1592: 1591: 1587: 1583: 1582:Bretonbanquet 1579: 1576: 1575: 1574: 1570: 1566: 1565:Bretonbanquet 1561: 1556: 1555: 1554: 1550: 1545: 1538: 1534: 1532: 1528: 1523: 1516: 1512: 1507: 1506: 1505: 1501: 1497: 1492: 1491: 1490: 1486: 1482: 1481:Bretonbanquet 1478: 1474: 1469: 1468: 1467: 1463: 1459: 1454: 1453: 1452: 1451: 1447: 1443: 1442:Bretonbanquet 1438: 1434: 1430: 1426: 1397: 1393: 1389: 1388:Bretonbanquet 1384: 1383: 1382: 1378: 1374: 1369: 1368: 1367: 1363: 1359: 1358:Bretonbanquet 1354: 1353: 1352: 1348: 1344: 1339: 1338: 1337: 1333: 1329: 1328:Bretonbanquet 1324: 1323: 1322: 1318: 1314: 1310: 1309: 1308: 1304: 1300: 1295: 1294: 1293: 1292: 1291: 1290: 1289: 1288: 1287: 1286: 1285: 1284: 1273: 1269: 1265: 1264:Bretonbanquet 1261: 1260: 1259: 1255: 1251: 1247: 1246: 1245: 1241: 1237: 1233: 1232: 1231: 1230: 1229: 1228: 1223: 1219: 1215: 1214:Bretonbanquet 1211: 1207: 1203: 1202: 1201: 1197: 1193: 1189: 1184: 1183: 1182: 1181: 1177: 1173: 1172:Bretonbanquet 1145: 1141: 1137: 1133: 1129: 1128: 1127: 1123: 1119: 1118:Bretonbanquet 1115: 1113: 1109: 1105: 1104:Bretonbanquet 1101: 1097: 1093: 1089: 1085: 1081: 1077: 1073: 1069: 1065: 1060: 1059: 1058: 1057: 1056: 1052: 1048: 1043: 1041: 1037: 1035: 1031: 1030: 1029: 1025: 1021: 1020:Bretonbanquet 1017: 1015: 1011: 1007: 1006:Bretonbanquet 1003: 999: 994: 993: 992: 988: 984: 979: 975: 970: 969: 968: 964: 960: 959:Bretonbanquet 955: 950: 949: 948: 944: 940: 935: 934: 933: 929: 925: 924:Bretonbanquet 921: 916: 915: 914: 910: 906: 901: 900: 899: 895: 891: 890:Bretonbanquet 887: 883: 882: 881: 877: 873: 868: 867: 866: 865: 861: 857: 856:Bretonbanquet 853: 849: 828: 824: 820: 815: 814: 813: 809: 805: 804:Bretonbanquet 801: 797: 795: 791: 787: 782: 781: 780: 776: 772: 768: 767: 766: 762: 758: 757:Bretonbanquet 754: 753: 752: 748: 744: 740: 739: 738: 734: 730: 729:Bretonbanquet 726: 722: 718: 714: 712: 708: 704: 699: 698: 695: 691: 687: 683: 679: 672: 671: 670: 669: 666: 662: 657: 650: 646: 645: 644: 641: 637: 633: 629: 625: 617: 610: 607: 604: 601: 598: 597: 596: 590: 588: 586: 582: 578: 577:24.37.210.100 574: 564: 562: 559: 558: 554: 550: 541: 537: 533: 529: 525: 524: 523: 522: 518: 514: 508: 501: 495: 492: 490: 488:Murray Walker 484: 483: 482: 478: 474: 470: 466: 465: 464: 463: 460: 458: 450: 442: 438: 434: 430: 426: 425: 424: 423: 419: 414: 403: 401: 398: 394: 390: 386: 382: 376: 369: 365: 361: 356: 349: 348:Paul di Resta 345: 341: 336: 335: 334: 332: 328: 324: 315: 311: 307: 302: 295: 291: 290: 289: 288: 284: 280: 272: 268: 264: 259: 252: 249: 248: 247: 245: 241: 237: 236:86.134.113.27 233: 223: 217: 213: 209: 208:178.27.68.143 205: 204: 203: 199: 195: 191: 190: 189: 186: 182: 178: 174: 170: 164: 160: 159: 155: 151: 143: 141: 140: 137: 129: 125: 121: 117: 112: 111: 110: 106: 102: 98: 94: 86: 85: 82: 81:Bretonbanquet 74: 68: 65: 62: 58: 57: 49: 45: 41: 40: 35: 28: 27: 19: 3912: 3909: 3884:source check 3863: 3857: 3854: 3803: 3800: 3778: 3775: 3750:source check 3729: 3723: 3720: 3613: 3610: 3588: 3585: 3560:source check 3539: 3533: 3530: 3463: 3460: 3439: 3437: 3395: 3393: 3371: 3368: 3343:source check 3322: 3316: 3313: 3256: 3253: 3226: 3190: 3136:— Preceding 3084:— Preceding 3081: 3057: 2954:— Preceding 2949: 2947: 2825:— Preceding 2820: 2768: 2764: 2371: 2335: 2318:74.1.131.187 2312:— Preceding 2309: 2277:80.130.45.92 2274: 2257: 2200: 2158:Whatzinaname 2139: 2125:Whatzinaname 2096:Whatzinaname 2053:— Preceding 2047: 2041: 2008: 1918: 1888:Whatzinaname 1859:Whatzinaname 1723: 1697: 1676: 1638:that's that. 1620: 1604:Whatzinaname 1598:— Preceding 1577: 1496:Whatzinaname 1472: 1458:Whatzinaname 1436: 1432: 1428: 1422: 1373:Whatzinaname 1343:Whatzinaname 1313:Whatzinaname 1250:Whatzinaname 1209: 1205: 1168: 1136:Whatzinaname 1095: 1087: 1083: 1064:Whatzinaname 1039: 1033: 953: 939:Whatzinaname 919: 905:Whatzinaname 885: 872:Whatzinaname 845: 819:Whatzinaname 799: 771:Whatzinaname 743:Whatzinaname 703:Whatzinaname 676:— Preceding 622:— Preceding 618: 614: 594: 571:— Preceding 568: 560: 549:Whatzinaname 545: 509: 505: 446: 429:Whatzinaname 407: 373: 344:Allan McNish 319: 276: 227: 161: 147: 133: 87: 78: 60: 43: 37: 3167:. Regards. 3106:Alain Prost 2683:John Watson 2406:Please see 1642:broadcasts. 1515:WP:FANCRUFT 920:as a record 379:—Preceding 230:—Preceding 167:—Preceding 91:—Preceding 36:This is an 3921:Report bug 3787:Report bug 3597:Report bug 3380:Report bug 3237:Eurohunter 3209:DH85868993 3169:DH85868993 3114:DH85868993 3064:DH85868993 2884:GameLegend 2770:TonyClarke 2738:GameLegend 2644:GameLegend 2542:GameLegend 2290:thanks... 2220:GameLegend 2187:GameLegend 2059:GameLegend 1987:DH85868993 1940:GameLegend 1844:DH85868993 1826:noteworthy 1812:TREKphiler 1787:GameLegend 1746:GameLegend 1706:GameLegend 1648:GameLegend 1192:GameLegend 1047:GameLegend 983:GameLegend 473:GameLegend 455:TREKphiler 144:Car Naming 97:Schumisalo 3904:this tool 3897:this tool 3834:dead link 3770:this tool 3763:this tool 3580:this tool 3573:this tool 3363:this tool 3356:this tool 3231:article? 3036:Charles01 3014:Charles01 2922:Falcadore 2852:Falcadore 2786:Falcadore 2632:Coulthard 2628:Adam Parr 2540:context. 2354:Falcadore 2024:Falcadore 1781:and the 1621:in a blog 1511:WP:TRIVIA 1002:bad faith 528:Bigdon128 385:Colormere 114:career.-- 67:Archive 2 61:Archive 1 3910:Cheers.— 3776:Cheers.— 3586:Cheers.— 3369:Cheers.— 3194:Lommaren 3138:unsigned 3130:Why not 3086:unsigned 2974:Source? 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