881:
SkyOS has a limited amount of software available. A number of applications have been ported in the last year, and the SkyOS team has stated that they are currently working on a more usable web browser as of this writing."? What is false about that sentence? SkyOS IS a newer operating system. Newer operating systems OF COURSE have less software available. A number of applications HAVE been ported or written in the past year. We currently ARE working on a usable web browser. If you want this part of the entry to be neutral, you will have to do one of two things: 1) make both cases, which would be (negative) that there are fewer applications when compared to the alternatives, but that (positive) many major applications have been ported or written, and work continues on to keep bridging the gap, or 2) do not include this section at all. People come to
Knowledge for information, for the FULL story. If you say SkyOS is incomplete, how is that the full story? You are saying SkyOS is incomplete, without letting the reader know all that is being done to make SkyOS become complete. That isn't the full story, that is misinformation, used to push your opinion on someone. You're intentionally leaving out a part of the story. By giving them the full story (you: SkyOS CURRENTLY lacks / us: but here is ALL that we are doing to make it complete), you let the reader decide how to interpret the situation.
523:
you define "few" applications? This is not a factual statement, but rather, an opinion, which (supposedly) does not belong on
Knowledge, since you're all so interested in simply listing the facts. Additionally, describe "poor hardware support". SkyOS supports every piece of hardware on my system: Nvidia graphics card (2D-acceleration), sound card, network card, mouse, keyboard...in MY opinion SkyOS has good hardware support, so I think you should take out "poor hardware support" and replace it with "excellent hardware support" because it works great for me. See where I am going with this? The entire paragraph is filled with opinions, and not facts. For some people, Linux has poor hardware support. Does that mean Linux has poor hardware support? Why is this paragraph even listed on the SkyOS Knowledge entry? It is at best misleading, and at worst, a flat out falsification. It has no place in this Knowledge entry. To say otherwise shows an agenda against SkyOS (which should be obvious by now). --Anonymous
2505:(like the filter and find features, like the notifier..) basic gui components (panel, notifier, desktop with icons...) the filesystem used - its advantages and how it's used in the system itself. programming for skyos, the possibilities. the history, from the beginning.. til today. the developing pace and where things are going, the choices for development and focus. there are also technologies that are in use, that even the beta testers know very little about, except a mention at the changelog, or at some obscure part of the website. (like: New cache subsystem. what does it mean?) I think it would be good to get information from an insider or from the main developer and after all the content is available, then start changing the excited tone, to a dry factual encyclopaedic tone. if you'd still want to..
1640:"As of 2004, SkyOS has drivers for a wide enough range of hardware to run on most PCs. Some types of devices are not supported, such as printers, CD burners and firewire devices. Although SkyOS has good support for most graphics cards in 2D mode, it lacks the ability to take advantage of the 3D hardware found on modern graphics cards like nVidia's GeForce and ATI's Radeon range. The SkyOS developers have asked these companies to consider writing drivers or releasing specifications so that drivers may be written; but at this stage neither company considers SkyOS to have enough marketshare for that to be financially viable."
1964:
making it up. It should be included. I've now said I am willing to accept the re-write above in regards to hardware. You speak about a consensus, defined as "An opinion or position reached by a group as a whole". I am working towards that goal, by allowing concessions to what I think should be written in parts of the atricle. You, however, are not interested in coming to a consensus. You are only interested in having included what you want included, and nothing more. This is just another shining example of the bias you are attempting to introduce into this article. --
1486:
of hardware have little or no support? Because unless everything I've read about SkyOS is untrue, that is the case. I don't doubt that SkyOS runs well, I have not claimed it doesn't. However, it's downright misleading to leave out the fact that SkyOS's hardware support is limited compared to other more popular operating systems. To justify leaving the fact out because "ANYTHING you do on the desktop" runs fine isn't a NPOV statement: your opinion on what people do and don't need on the desktop is not relevant. --Anonymous
2102:
traffic from
Knowledge or not, we receive more than enough traffic from other venues. Saying that I am trying to advertise SkyOS makes absolutely no sense. Not to mention, if I WAS trying to advertise SkyOS, don't you think I would find a bit more interesting or effective means of doing it than by listing changes in a beta? I am simply trying to include factually important and relevant information that might be of interest to someone trying to learn more about SkyOS.
2287:
obvious that he is not being truthful. Beyond the fact that it is impossible for one person to write that many drivers, who supplied him with the hundreds of printers and network devices required to test them with? If that is not enough, look at the fact that SkyOS offers no real functional advantages over Linux or FreeBSD. I'm sure if you look you'll also find that SkyOS support little to no hardware beyond what is already supported in Linux and FreeBSD.
190:
130:
103:
1376:
it to know that, I just need to know that the programs I use need it. I'm not actually trying to add anything in to the article. I think it's fine as it is. It seems to cover the OS very reasonably. However, you think it is not positive enough, so we are trying to find a way to accommodate your POV. I don't need to have used it to know that you have a POV, or to agree that it should be included, etc. --
72:
21:
222:
1619:
mentioning the down sides of the limited driver support. Would you perhaps undertake to write the section on driver support and post it here on the talk page, so that the interested parties can say yea or nay and move on? I like your idea of giving a broader context for the statement. Perhaps that will be satisfactory to Thom and
Hexydes? --
1518:
when trying to get hardware drivers written, or even specs to write those drivers. I wish the situation was better than it is, and SkyOS (and other alternate operating systems) were able to write full drivers for such hardware. However, I'm not going to let that sentimentality slip into an article about it, I'll stick to the facts. --
1072:
I read this article and it tells me it has great hardware support, I'm left thinking, how come it won't work my printer though? How come it won't work my
Firewire devices? What if I don't use the graphics card your system supports? I have to go out and buy a new card? I don't have to do that with Windows. So, look, that's
741:, Shane. If you insist that the article doesn't use idiomatic language, we'll have to go with "poor", because, in fact, you are using it as a synonym for "poor" too. You can't limit something by comparison with something else. That's nonsense. How does comparing it with Windows limit it in any way? --Anonymous
1896:
It is relevant, factual information about SkyOS. People that follow SkyOS are always interested in what has been included in the betas, and what will be in the next betas. Once again, you're not interested in meeting halfway on this, you want it your way. We are discussing this in order to come to an
1714:
I do not find what I have said here to be biased. Maybe you should look the word up in a dictionary :). And maybe I will contribute to other articles-- especially ones that have to do with The
Netherlands. But, I am not willing to contribute here, if the people around here dare to call me biased-- if
1485:
I do not need to have experience with SkyOS, in fact that's not even helpful. Knowledge is not the place for original research! I read sites such as OS news, and so I am aware of the state of SkyOS. Do you deny it's true that SkyOS lacks 3D acceleration for modern graphics cards? Or that some classes
1071:
Now, I'm an editor not a computer whatsit, so help me out here. I can recognise a biased piece of writing but I can't quite grasp what the issue is here. If you say it has very good hardware support, I'm at a bit of a loss. If it doesn't work a printer, how is that good? I use a printer every day. If
522:
How can you say that SkyOS has few applications? Gaim, Gimp, Abiword, Media Center, Blender3D, Links, Quake I, Quake II, Foobilliard, Skirc, a number of small games, developer's suite, simple text editor, image viewer, Canvas (native image editor), graphical-FTP application...the list goes on. How do
2726:
I reverted this edit based on your reasoning; it's a relatively unpopular operating system with little or no expert literature outside of the official website, which, by the way, is perhaps the most reliable source one can use to source statements. As a general rule, citing is required for claims or
2690:
The article doesn't seem to say anything about how available SkyOS is. It says quite a bit about the issues surrounding its source, but nothing about how to actually obtain it. Is it free to download? Will its availability change in the future? I know I can answer these questions by going to the
2635:
And that SkyOS has been criticised (most frequently on their website forums) for moving away from a previously Open Source model to a proprietary model is complete nonsense. Where did you get this from? Where did you actually got all your "facts" from? Please, please, try to actually recherche a bit
2167:
Although SkyOS may or may not (I believe it doesn't) violate the GPL, should the article say that "some have suspected that SkyOS violates the GPL, although its author has repeatedly said it doesn't." Even if it is proven that SkyOS doesn't violate the GPL, that info should be in the article because
2140:
include. This will make the article NPOV. Also, to resolve the difficulties some have with what software is and isn't supported, if you will not get behind Shane's excellent compromise, you can have a list of the programs it does support, complemented by a very very long list of the programs it does
1963:
Please explain how listing what applications are available, and what has been included in each beta, is self-promotion. It is factual information about SkyOS that we are often asked about. Obviously, people want to know about that information, or they would not ask about it. It is factual, we're not
958:
I've already said what this entry becomes if you leave out part of the facts. If you're comfortable with lying, then by all means, go for the gusto. I would like to point out that you most likely have never used SkyOS, so in all reality, you should probably not be commenting on it at all. But again,
2393:
SkyOS has a page with source downloads to all files that are GPL that are used, to the best of my knowledge it does not violate any GPL license for anything and i have followed the project for a while, while i have not contributed anything to it, i do watch it closely out of interest so do not call
2056:
This is preposterous, Hexydes. We are having this discussion to end an edit war. We have bashed out a consensus between the two sides and your suggestion to implement that consensus is to revert to your edit? You just aren't getting into the spirit, man. Yes, the listing of what was in each beta is
1917:
I'm fine with the re-written paragraph, but I want the more complete version of the article that appeared before, with the addition/replacement of the new paragraph, because it contains interesting, factual information about SkyOS. If you can't accept those terms, then just keep the article locked,
1818:
It would have meant them giving trade secrets to a third party, which ultimately comes down to a financial concern, as those trade secrets are considered to be worth money by nVidia and ATI. Whether or not the worry is legitimate or not, is not my concern. I'm merely reporting on it, the reader can
1694:
I call it as I see it, Thom. All I've seen from you is what you've written here. We are having this discussion because some people wish there to be a bias in the article. You're not alone in it but I do feel it's something you should accept. I've suggested to you that you should contribute to other
1606:
As far as
Microsoft goes, it was a bigger company in 1981 when the first version of DOS shipped than SkyOS is now. Also, it's completely impossible to compare the small size of the personal computer market then to what it is now. SkyOS is also much more complicated a piece of software than DOS was.
1600:
I have no problem covering that side of things, so long as it can be done in a neutral way. I'm happy to explain the reasons why SkyOS has limited driver support, so long as the statement is made that is does indeed have limited support, and the reasons why that is so remain non-emotively stated so
1375:
Hey, man, easy now. NPOV means including *every* point of view. And writing an encyclopaedia means writing articles for *everyone* who might read them. Not everyone has a technical appreciation. Now, if SkyOS doesn't do 3D graphics, it won't even work some of the programs I use. I don't need to use
1148:
My point is the fact that stating "relatively poor hardware support" is an empty statement-- it does not make clear what exactly is unsupported. People could indeed read it as a lack of printing support, firewire, or whatever. But, I'm pretty confident that people will think that the chance that it
844:
As Yet
Limited, with no "but its getting this/that/the other" stuff tacked on will do, I suppose. Knowledge isn't a press release, hence no forward-looking-statements... Oh, and I agree that good software support is a thousand plus applications, covering all categories. SkyOS has probably a hundred
2129:
I think you should step away from editing this article. You are far too close to it. Why not work on something else? You might be tired of hearing that it's self-promotion, but your closeness to it makes it very hard to believe that you are taking a neutral look at it. See, I am, and it looks like
1557:
I don't think there would be any problem with a short discussion of those problems even, Shane, would there? If there is a POV that these difficulties create frustration for smaller-OS developers, this is something that could be covered. BTW, was
Microsoft big and rich when it first wrote Windows?
1124:
I doubt I could get it to hit a GUI with sound and networking on my laptop - something
Windows, Linux, BeOS and all the BSD's can. There's no printer support, and I presume wireless and firewire are unsupported as well. Hence it HAS got poor support relative to the commercial OS's, and even to the
1101:
And please, Thom, sign up with Knowledge. Contribute in other areas. Your expertise would be very welcome. One of the things that we're advised to do is to try not to work on things that involve our own POV. You can't possibly distance yourself from this subject and you're stuck pushing an agenda.
934:
As for "leaving out a part of the story". It's not a story. It's an entry in an encyclopaedia about an operating system of very little application and with very little support, it seems, in the wider community. What it isn't is a soapbox for its proponents. But clearly the proSkyOS crew oppose any
880:
Why don't you also mention that SkyOS doesn't have CAD software, doesn't have tax-computation software, and doesn't have 1,000 other niche applications? Why are you so hell-bent on pointing out what SkyOS doesn't have? Why can't you just leave it at "As is to be expected of a new operating system,
2504:
Hi, it would be nice to see a section about skyos's technologies and original concepts. right now, there is only availability of drivers, but no mention of the bigger picture. the concept of services used throughout skyos, DCS, integrated gui, integrated components and communications between them
1517:
I have nothing against SkyOS, I think it's an amazing effort for such a small group of people to build something that can even be mentioned in the same breath as Windows, which was created by one of the biggest and richest companies on Earth. I sympathise with the problems smaller developers face
1359:
SkyOS does NOT have reduced performance on Nvidia and ATI hardware, as far as the desktop is concerned. The only limitation it has is modern gaming. For ANYTHING you are doing on the desktop, SkyOS runs extremely well. The fact is, you're trying to add things in to the SkyOS article that you have
1239:
Yes, Thom, I do think you're biased. I think you want an article that will spin SkyOS the right way. That's okay though! We just need a way to incorporate all POVs. I don't think there's any need for the article to be ultracritical and I think Kiand has backed down from his position and been very
581:
This looks to me like a good compromise. It's a pity that the SkyOS guys and their shills are so keen on using Knowledge as an advertising tool but isn't that the way of things? You can't blame them for wanting to be reported in a positive light. I'm completely neutral. I use Windows! and I don't
2538:
Also whoever wrote "*The new C++ API* contains many functionalities that were determined from real world usage, for programming an application in skyos", as a programmer I find this to be a rather worthless peice of text and it comes out as weasel words. *What* "usage"? *What* "functionalities"?
2101:
It is relevant because it tells about the history of what has been done in developing the most recent version of SkyOS. I'm so tired of hearing that you think I am advertising SkyOS on Knowledge. We literally get about 3 hits a week from Knowledge. I couldn't honestly care less if we receive any
1036:
If people can come to arraignment about the skyos wikipedia page I guarantee that I will not change it (since the question has been raised whether people will revert once it is unprotected). I just wanted an equal, fair, true, representation of the OS... one that doesn't mention any theories on
2286:
The evidence is that POSIX compatible operating systems like FreeBSD and Linux contain millions of lines of code. Anyone who thinks Robert built a POSIX compatible OS from scratch knows nothing at all about programming. The fact that Robert also claims to have written over 1000 drivers makes it
1303:
I think something needs to be said to reflect this. We can argue over the wording, but the fact remains that a fair and balanced article about SkyOS must mention that the number of devices supported, and the quality of that support, is inferior to Linux and Windows. While SkyOS may boot on most
1271:
There's "running" and then there's running. Correct me if I'm wrong, but SkyOS will not do accelerated 3D graphics on any modern graphics card. Now, you can spin that to say that SkyOS supports the geforce and radeon range of cards. However, that's misleading: it will run on them, but with much
593:
Far better than it was. I'm fine without any reference to GPL complaining, a google search doesn't turn up any evidence, just accusations. I'll even say that 'relatively poor hardware support' could be replaced by 'limited' or 'growing'. Take note SkyOS folks! As an intelligent consumer, I saw
2454:
If there's someone reading this who is in the beta and can confirm this to be fact (Not that I don't trust the website, just that I think we should have someone give a 2nd opinion) you might want to add that to the page (and remove the lines saying that It doesn't support USB, Printing and 3D)
784:
In this instance, the software support can be said to be limited by how few people work on the system, how little time they have had to work on applications, etc etc. Yes, Windows etc don't have the same limits. They've been around longer and have spent more money. But to say so is to make the
2061:
alone cannot be a criterion for inclusion. Relevance and notability are how we distinguish a fact to be included from one that should not. What is the relevance of listing what was in each beta? Purely to advertise the capabilities of the OS. You have an external link to a place where you can
1786:
I can accept this paragraph (even though financial motivations is NOT the reason why Nvidia and ATI refused to support us. It would cost them NOTHING to let us use their code to write drivers). However, I do ask that the page be reverted to one of the previous versions that had quite a lot of
1618:
Yes, I wasn't suggesting we compare the circumstances of the two at all. I was asking you to clarify that for me. The very complexity of the industry now and how it is not a failing of the smaller company not to be entirely competitive with the giants are definitely the balancing up sides of
1607:
The computer industry moves so fast it's futile to try to compare the circumstances of today with those of over 20 years ago. It's also not really relevant to the article (I only mentioned it in passing because I wanted to say I'm not anti-SkyOS, just looking to keep the article neutral). --
1087:
If you don't like this solution, suggest something better. You know that simply saying you're working on a web browser doesn't work. That's just advertising, dude. I think we're quite close to consensus. Tinker with the suggestion I've made rather than try to spin it into something that is
1649:
Hopefully that's neutral enough to satisfy everyone, or at least be a workable compromise. I've spent a fair amount of time on it (30 minutes for two paragraphs), so please don't accuse me of deliberate bias, I've really tried my best to come up with something workable. If it's still not
2258:
If there was actually one iota of evidence about possible GPL violations, it might be a valid point of discussion but all there is are rumors, unfounded rumors by people who do not know the history of SkyOS. SkyOS has been around since in 1997; it isn't some OS that just appeared fully
2141:
not. I think the version Shane suggests very neatly balances the two views. If you insist on something more comprehensive, I think you should get it. You have fought very hard not to allow negative viewpoints to be expressed in this article but in fact Knowledge is all about expressing
706:
I got the impression "limited" was just a polite way of saying "poor" though. It's not just "limited" compared with mainstream OSes, is it? It's limited in an absolute sense because it doesn't support much. And, anonymous dude, "many applications" is thousands, not a couple of dozen.
1678:
Oh and Dr. Zen, I really take it personal that you dare to call me biased. It obviously shows that you have never read any of my articles. Because if you did, you'd know I'm one of the few unbiased operating system enthousiasts still out there. Reconsider your statement, please.
2062:
advertise to your heart's content. I agree totally with Kiand on this issue. I think we have made a good compromise and I also think that because Kiand and Shane gave a lot more ground than you did, you think that you can get all you want by simply refusing to negotiate it. --
677:
Please re-word the part about very little software support. SkyOS currently supports many applications, with just about every normal use covered by the applications available. "Limited" might be better again, but with a mention that this is constantly improving. --Anonymous
2211:
Hmm... Person A generates controversy around person B; Thom argues all mention of controversy should be excised from B's article, as being of absolutely no relevance or interest whatsoever to anyone. But of course! It's so simple and logical, why did I not see it earlier?
896:"As is to be expected of a new operating system, SkyOS has a limited amount of software available. A number of applications have been ported in the last year, and the SkyOS team has stated that they are currently working on a more usable web browser as of this writing."
1643:"SkyOS has applications for most common desktop computing tasks, with a modern graphical web browser and a full office suite being notable exceptions. The availability of niche applications is limited in comparison to other operating systems such as Windows or Linux."
760:
Windows has a limited number of applications only in the sense that physically and technically there will be limits to what it can do (for instance, an application for doing the hoovering is likely going to be beyond it because it doesn't have a physical presence).
1211:
make SkyOS look better than it is. In fact, in my review of beta 7.9, the critisizm was in the majority. Not in any of my 15+ articles I've written, on various subjects, have I ever showed any unfounded preference for any piece of software or operating system.
898:, which makes it known that things are missing, but makes sure to let the reader know that work continues on. That way, both sides get their say. You're welcome to simply post your opinion, but just know that you've made the entry untruthful and incomplete. --
2534:
Hi This article quite clearly lacks many issues which are being blatantly restrained. This includes the issues surrounding the closing of Sky OS source code promptly at the same time as the "rewrite". A criticism (which I will add) is much deserved.
2172:
This is what I tried to say, repeatedly, but we've got zealots who remove it constantly. Every article you see on OSNews or Slashdot has the same suspicions on it, it is a major subject.... but no, certain users just remove it every time its posted.
1453:
This is an open discussion, not a private conversation. If you want to speak to Shane particularly, you can use his talk page or, if you want to continue to attack him personally, perhaps he'll give you his email addy and you can take it there.
2710:
The article has virtual no sources outside of skyos.org so I've added a refimprove template. I also think some parts of it are not exactly NPOV, e.g. "but development of SkyOS continues as fast as ever" but I'll leave that for another time
2195:
Depends on how you look at it. If I accuse person X of being a racist, without any apiece of evidence, and I get a group of die-hard zealot followers who feel the same, should that be added to person X' Knowledge entry? I think not. --Thom
2727:
ideas that are likely to be challenged. If you saw anything in the article like this, please mark it as such (or, better, yet, source the material yourself instead of littering random articles with "OMG WHERE DOES IT SAY THAT!"
865:"There is currently only a limited amount of applications available for the system, in comparison to other commercial operating systems. The most notable current exclusions are a full office suite and a modern web browser"Â ::--
546:
here...). I haven't checked recently but i think there are somewhere over 9000 programs readily available through apt or portage. I don't think SkyOS can compete with that. You are, of course, at liberty to prove me wrong.
986:
Last time I checked, an office suite and a web browser were not nice apps. We don't need to know there's more apps being ported, this is not a PR statement. The first line of your suggestion could be used, but no more of it.
440:
If so then the linux, microsoft windows, and BEos pages are to. Kiand, would you stop redoing the article, this is a Encylopedia and the more information the better. All you're doing is making a smaller version of ths skyos
2022:
I've read these before. I asked YOU to tell me how you think the above is self-promotion, as you so said. Please elaborate why you believe that the posting of factual, relevant information is, in your mind, self-promotion.
1347:
It has more BeOS like features than other OS's, although it does use a Windows/DOS/OS2 style disk lettering system. That proposed rewrite isn't even in real English, so I don't see how or why it could be put in.
2450:
On SkyOS's website the current news articles and the screenshots that are in them show that they new have printing support using CUPS. It also showed Quake 3 (meaning it supports 3D graphics) And USB support.
1001:
To be totally accurate, this has to be written about 4.0a anyway, which was dire, as 5.0 doesn't exist publicly. Hence we're being very generous in letting a lot of stuff about 5.0's improvements be left in.
2184:
Yeah. As long as it's worded so that it doesn't say that SkyOS does, but there is just a suspicion. I don't think that SkyOS uses GPL, but I think that Knowledge needs to have a lot of accurate information.
2639:
And: "Many have speculated that SkyOS may be violating the GPL license of other works in its new code-base for numerous reasons.". Again, get the facts and not just speculations made by puberty children.
1063:
Okay, Thom. I think there is consensus that it should not say "poor". Can you live with "as yet limited hardware support relative to that offered by the commercial OSs"? I think this does encompass both
1404:
Gee well, guess all my fond memories of 'modern gaming' on my desktop never actually happened, because we all know nobody games on the desktop. *rolls eyes*. 'Anything' means 'Anything', Hexydes. --
1056:
I am still not happy with the poor hw support thing, since it simply is a blatant lie. Other than that, I am getting tired of this. It's not as if an unbalanced wikipedia article will ruin SkyOS. --
2439:
I have changed the entry for SkyOS to reflect the fact that SkyOS 5.0 has turned into a complete rewrite of the OS from the ground up. The tag 5.0 is set to be dropped and it will simply be SkyOS.
2642:
I removed the critism section because the information is complete wrong, therefore not relevant at all, and obvisously written by people having no clue about SkyOS and they didn't recherche at all
718:
It doesn't make sense to talk about limited in the absolute sense. In the absolute sense, Windows has a limited number of applications (ie it doesn't have an unlimited number of applications). --
959:
if you're creating an article with half-truth's and incomplete ideas, don't let the fact that you have never used SkyOS before stand in your way of contributing to a Knowledge entry about it. --
620:
I agree limited is a better term. Poor could imply that of the hardware it does support, it does so poorly. Limited suggests it doesn't support many varieties of hardware, which is accurate. --
693:
It's limited in comparison to the "Big Five" - Windows, Linux, *BSD, MacOS and BeOS. If we use Limited it has to have a qualification like that. (Yes, BeOS has more software than SkyOS...) --
309:
Before publication, the content of this new article was shown to Robert Szeleney, as well as several SkyOS and Haiku community members, and found to be neutral, accurate, and comprehensive.
1944:
If you want a pro-SkyOS Wiki article, with a full list of apps ported, whats in each beta, etc, set a Wiki up on your own webserver. The Knowledge is not for that kind of self-promotion. --
1634:
This is just a suggestion as I was asked to try to write it, don't take it as finished, as I know I can tend to waffle a bit when I write. I also haven't bothered to wikify this text yet.
1658:
I hope the disputing parties will at least thank you, Shane, for the effort. I know I do. I think it's very fair. It's not exactly what either side wanted but it does strike a balance. --
1857:
Those sections were cut for the reason that they're not needed and not encyclopaedic. The betas aren't public and hence there is no point saying what's in them. They are not relevant. --
1076:
poor. I can see that it's an achievement for Robert to have made it but he's not a giant corporation, so he has to put the work in still. That's why we say "as yet limited". --Anonymous
2105:
I really would like you to explain why you believe listing beta changes is advertising for SkyOS. I really can't figure out your frame of thought on that at all. It makes no sense. --
51:
41:
1178:
Maybe it's a better idea to add what exactly lacks in hardware support -- i.e. FireWire, printing, burning -- so that people know what is supported and what isn't. Fact is SkyOS
2235:
I would agree if there was a reasonable cause behind the belief, but rather it was born by the ignorance of a /. poster's ignorance about how the linux binary interpreters work.
1021:
Considering I doubt anyone involved in a commercial OS would find themselves resorting to sarcasm, I think we can take that as an approvaly for just changing Poor to Limited. --
2761:
1360:
absolutely zero experience with. You've never used SkyOS, so how would you know how well it supports hardware? You say Thom's opinion is biased? At least he has USED SkyOS. --
682:
How about "limited when compared to mainstream operating systems such as Windows or MacOS". This wording at least states what benchmark "limited" is used in comparison to. --
570:
I don't agree entirely with it as it is now, but I can live with it. However, I somehow worry that on unprotection it'll be reverted by those from within SkyOS again. --
2057:"factual", but it is also "factual" that Bill Gates wore nappies as a baby, that there are leaves on the pavements of London right now and that three and three is six.
1759:
Hrm. I'll accept ShaneKings rewrite assuming we don't take the unsigned, anonymous, pidgin-English suggestion above for changing the line about what OS's its like. --
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In response to the only valid reason for proposing this article for deletion, I have taken it upon myself to completely rewrite the current SkyOS Knowledge article.
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True, hence my analogy about being limited compared to the big five OS's - each of those have well over 2,000 different applications available for them. --
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We've almost reached a concensus on what is to be done to this version. If you keep editing or reverting, you will be blocked. Simple as that. --Anonymous
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because it's not. SkyOS is a beta OS that few people have heard of. This article is almost pure spam, and it'll get deleted if it's not toned down.
542:, or other OSs like the Mac's or Windows- and that is not counting emulators and such which allow one OS to steal another's libraries (I'm thinking
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This is not an ad for SkyOS, Hexydes. You are indulging in spin. Your suggestion is not NPOV. I suggest we stick to changing "poor" to "limited".
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Oh and Dr. Zen, if you think I'm biased in favor of SkyOS, than you really have no idea. I have written several articles for OSNews.com, and I
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First, why should it refute any argument about the GPL? Please make yourself familiar with the GPL and the way GPL programs are used in SkyOS!
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We'd better leave it a day or two to see what Hexydes and Thom have to say on it as we don't want a revert war as soon as its unprotected. --
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machines, it will certainly not allow you to make full use of your hardware on almost any machine manufactured in the last 4 or 5 years. --
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Thanks so much, we're so grateful for the generosity you've shown us. It means the world to us. Seriously. Thanks. So much. Seriously. --
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SkyOS webpage, but it would be nice for someone with some knowledge about SkyOS to say a few words about availability in the article.
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1995:" articles. You'll find that listing what apps an OS has and what was in each closed beta is not covered in What the Knowledge Is. --
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Excellent, hopefully we're nearing a resolution here so the page will be unprotected soon and this change will be able to be made. --
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my suggestion for you guys. I want to know more facts and information about this OS. but it seems wikipedia doesn't have much.
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me some kind of zealot either, i don't even use it, just watch it, and i know how much work Robert puts into it. - Liam Dawe
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Agreed. This is a fair piece, and I have no objections to this at all-- in fact, it was what I had in mind in my last reply.
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decide for themselves whether nVidia and ATI are right to worry or not. Knowledge is not the place for me to editorialise.
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whether or not it is GPL compliant (because it is and that would be false advertising if it was left up :) ) --Anonymous
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Second, which issues surrounding the closing of the source are you talking about? I'm not aware of any issue about this.
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Looks good. Currently, the article does not seem biased or like advertising. I recommend removal of deletion flag.
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We can say it because SkyOS does- it has nowhere near the umpteen-thousand suites/programs that distros such as
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agreement, and you're simply negating anything that doesn't fall into your critical view of SkyOS. --Anonymous
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How is it irrelevant? The license makes absolutely no difference to the effect on the Open Source community.
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they don't read like a rant against nVidia (which has legitimate business reasons for not releasing specs).
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So here's what I suggest. You put in your list of betas and revisions and Kiand can add what the revision
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Excellent idea! I actually like the page the way it is now. It strikes a nice balance. --Anonymous
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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How about "as yet limited"? That conveys the notion that it is increasing and being worked on. --
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know a GNU from a wARtHoG, but I do know bias when I see it. This isn't too bad either way. --
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Please help fix the broken anchors. You can remove this template after fixing the problems. |
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throught the market speak right away. Your product is better shown by unbiased coverage. --
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blatant self-promotion to me. You haven't even begun to convince me otherwise. --Anonymous
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1398:"The only limitation it has is modern gaming. For ANYTHING you are doing on the desktop"...
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fair about it. However, there is a need not to twist the truth too far the other way. --
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No it isn't, Its been deleted from here. I'm going to stick it back up here. --Anonymous
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relevant information about SkyOS (such as the list of what each beta included, etc.). --
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SkyOS was originally BSD licensed, not GPL, so the closing of the code is irrelevant.
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But on others, you will much more easily find neutrality and be a great contributor. --
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articles that you're not so close to and I think you should strongly consider that. --
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unrealistically positive and I think we're there and everyone can be at least content.
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I'd settle for the term "limited" if it'd keep Hexdyres from complaining about it. --
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Hey also how the hell do any of those kernel features "distinguish it from others?"
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Since you also didn't capitalise SkyOS I'll assume this to be broken and remove it.
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reduced capabilities than running Windows or Linux on the same machine. --Anonymous
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Skyos has a number of features that reminiscent of alot of that OS's. --Anonymous
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We need to add something about the current hiatus of skyos. Read the reports here
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But it has got poor hardware support - two major graphics vendors and VESA, etc.
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you think I am, don't let me edit at all. Which has already happened anyway. --
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I agree. Change the line from poor to limited and I think we're good to go. --
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attempt at writing a neutral article. They're not here for that, are they? --
421:"Please be realistic about SkyOS. This is not the right place for marketing.
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Your older version was an advert. It will never be brought back. --Anonymous
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30:. Please review the prior discussions if you are considering re-nomination:
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because we will continue to edit it back to what we feel is appropriate. --
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just to tell you; your edit isn't completely true! go nag somebody else."
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viewpoint. How it does it is a matter for discussion and debate, but it
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I like the entry the way it is now. Strikes a nice balance. --Anonymous
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True, but when the info is advertising, marketing bumf, it isn't better.
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Or for that matter, how does it refute any argument that GPL works are
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This article links to one or more target anchors that no longer exist.
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If Skyos is advertising then so is Linux, Microsoft Windows, BeOS, etc
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I have updated the page. The 3D support is, for now, software only.
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I don't usually make edits to pages so I'm gonna post here instead.
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Note that this talk page is not protected, so you can discuss here.
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satisfactory, please suggest how it can be improved! --
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run on most systems, and therefore stating "relatively
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run, and that is simply untrue and therefore unfair.
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run on their computers is bigger than the chance it
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785:article an apologia rather than a description. --
2706:Article sourcing in desperate need of improvement
1558:Presumably it grew from small beginnings too. --
501:Knowledge:Staying_cool_when_the_editing_gets_hot
298:The website has just gone down March 9th 2014.
1338:"and a number of features reminiscent of BeOS"
356:Where did the orignal talk go to? --Anonymous
1630:My attempt at redoing the software/driver bit
1186:hardware support" send out the wrong message.
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2762:C-Class software articles of Low-importance
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367:It's archived. Follow the link above. --
2337:What if he simply took FreeBSD drivers?
433:I don't see any marketing going on here.
312:Feel free to discuss the rewrite here.
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2772:Unknown-importance Computing articles
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135:This article is within the scope of
2168:it's part of the history of SkyOS.
88:It is of interest to the following
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1426:I was responding to Shane King. --
349:Archive of debate about SkyOS page
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1053:Wow, I can edit again. The joy.
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155:Knowledge:WikiProject Software
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197:This article is supported by
158:Template:WikiProject Software
149:and see a list of open tasks.
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1989:Knowledge:What Knowledge is
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405:Here is the original talk.
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2777:All Computing articles
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78:This article is rated
2782:All Software articles
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200:WikiProject Computing
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50:, March 9, 2008, see
894:So my suggestion is
138:WikiProject Software
40:, 8 April 2019, see
489:Ending the Edit War
2500:SkyOS Technologies
1125:major OSS ones. --
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84:content assessment
2670:comment added by
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1717:Thom Holwerda
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419:(begin quote)
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331:Fippy Darkpaw
327:
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294:Website down?
293:
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280:75.71.227.231
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2729:Alex Forster
2709:
2689:
2663:
2647:90.146.34.54
2594:
2562:69.205.61.99
2537:
2533:
2510:
2507:
2503:
2488:page history
2478:
2457:
2453:
2449:
2446:
2438:
2402:82.46.55.243
2166:
2158:
2146:
2142:
2137:
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2058:
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347:
328:
317:Alex Forster
314:
311:
308:
305:
297:
264:
241:
233:Anchors are
230:
198:
176:
136:
90:WikiProjects
47:
37:
2693:66.93.12.46
2672:75.67.78.77
2666:—Preceding
2599:ColinAlston
2556:—Preceding
2541:ColinAlston
2492:Luna Santin
2435:New Version
2396:—Preceding
2345:160.92.7.69
1987:Check the "
987:--Anonymous
761:--Anonymous
707:--Anonymous
596:Jericho 4.0
508:Kim Bruning
481:(end quote)
425:Why's that?
274:—Preceding
2746:Categories
2490:. Cheers!
2464:Lord Chess
2059:Factuality
1824:Shane King
1738:Shane King
1652:Shane King
1609:Shane King
1520:Shane King
1306:Shane King
1074:relatively
856:How about:
720:Shane King
684:Shane King
622:Shane King
52:discussion
42:discussion
2713:Nil Einne
1584:Microsoft
562:I like it
344:Archiving
114:Computing
2668:unsigned
2558:unsigned
2515:unsigned
2398:unsigned
2341:unsigned
2291:unsigned
2196:Holwerda
737:It's an
441:article.
315:Thanks,
276:unsigned
152:Software
143:software
109:Software
28:deletion
2443:Updates
2259:formed.
2138:did not
2107:Hexydes
2025:Hexydes
1991:" and "
1966:Hexydes
1920:Hexydes
1789:Hexydes
1588:Windows
1428:Hexydes
1362:Hexydes
1012:Hexydes
961:Hexydes
900:Hexydes
179:on the
80:C-class
2597:used?
2458:Roger
2151:Dr Zen
2147:should
2064:Dr Zen
1697:Dr Zen
1660:Dr Zen
1621:Dr Zen
1586:wrote
1560:Dr Zen
1456:Dr Zen
1378:Dr Zen
1242:Dr Zen
1104:Dr Zen
937:Dr Zen
838:Dr Zen
787:Dr Zen
641:Zizban
584:Dr Zen
540:Gentoo
536:Debian
369:Dr Zen
267:OSNews
86:scale.
2480:SkyGI
2474:SkyGI
2175:Kiand
2143:every
1997:Kiand
1946:Kiand
1859:Kiand
1761:Kiand
1582:When
1350:Kiand
1209:never
1149:will
1127:Kiand
1064:POVs.
1023:Kiand
1004:Kiand
867:Kiand
847:Kiand
818:Kiand
739:idiom
695:Kiand
663:Kiand
607:Kiand
572:Kiand
2733:talk
2717:talk
2697:talk
2676:talk
2651:talk
2603:talk
2585:talk
2566:talk
2545:talk
2530:Bias
2523:talk
2484:prod
2406:talk
2349:talk
2299:talk
2214:maru
1331:BeOS
1184:poor
1180:will
1155:will
544:WINE
335:talk
321:talk
284:talk
269:and
231:Tip:
48:keep
38:Keep
2595:now
1151:not
171:Low
2748::
2735:)
2719:)
2699:)
2678:)
2653:)
2605:)
2587:)
2568:)
2547:)
2408:)
2351:)
2301:)
2212:--
2173:--
2023:--
1822:--
1679:--
1454:--
1348:--
1212:--
1002:--
547:--
538:,
337:)
323:)
286:)
112::
2731:(
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2404:(
2355:.
2347:(
2305:.
2297:(
333:(
319:(
282:(
246:]
203:.
183:.
92::
54:.
44:.
Text is available under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License. Additional terms may apply.