Talk:Spanair Flight 5022 - Knowledge (XXG)

2227:(note that 'catastrophic failure' in maintenance terminology does not actually mean a catastrophe like we see in movies, but a big failure that becomes the engine unserviceable, and normally are not spectacullar at all). There is always a possibility of a catastrophic failure during take-off due to an important amount of reasons, among them ingestion of strange objects (including birds), and normally they does not represent a high risk to the operation, specially when a rather small aircraft like this has more than 14300 ft of runway length. This kind of failure are rather normal and pilots are far well trained to handle it, actually this is a 'must' in every simulator training (that pilots have to pass every six months. Now they say that videos do not reveal an engine explosion. But an engine explosion not allways produce a lot of smoke, and a spectacular light. An engine failure where debris is exphelled from the engine causing subsequent damage can be quite unnoticeable from far away. 2396:

inadvertent deployment in the Spanair crash. The case of the DC-8 in Japan has no relevance because it is normal for the pilot to be able to deploy DC-8 reversers in flight, as a means of causing drag so that the plane can be slowed very rapidly. That is the speed brake system on the DC-8. But, that Captain was mentally ill and determined to deliberately crash that airplane and the method he used was to deploy the reversers in flight, at a time when the airpseed was only at about 130 percent of the stall speed. By deploying the reversers at that critical time (low altitude, just above the runway approach lighting system), the plane's speed was reduced to below the stall speed so fast that the First Office was not able to intervene fast enough to save the plane. That deliberate suicide attempt by the Captain, was the cause of that crash.

2422:

it will crash----PERIOD! There is nothing the pilot could do to stop the crash, if that kind of mechanical failure occurred at such a critical time. The 767 Lauda Air crash was caused by a mechanical failure that caused one of the reversers to deploy, when they were more than 20,000 ft. up. The engines were only generating climb thrust at that point, which is considerably less than max Takeoff thrust. Yet, the pilots quickly lost control of the plane, it happened so fast. If a reverser was to deploy inadvertently on just about any modern airliner, right after the plane lifts off the ground, the plane will immediately roll and stall. It will happen so quick that the pilot will be unable to do anything to save the plane.

2309:

aircraft taxied from apron to the runway. It is normal to use brakes during taxi, and it is normal that during taxi tyres get some temperature that is dissipated after take off, while flying at -50ºC. But in this case, instead of the normal flight, tyres were exposed to a high energy dissipation due to the aborted take-off, and subsequent taxi into apron. It won't surprise me if after this pneumatics pressure fuses were partially opened, and some of them could possibly result partially de-inflated. This could cause an important increase in drag during take-off run and could penalize take-off run.

2431:

recover if a reverser deploys while the engines are producing high thrust). No pilots have that kind of training. They do know, that if that happens, and they somehow have the time to figure out what happened, before they lose control, then of course they would shut the offending engine down. But, if much thrust is present, then such an inadvertent deployment of one reverser will usually lead to almost instantaneous loss of control. When the plane suddenly rolls upside down and goes into a dive, it might be very hard to read the engine gauges while they are struggling to pull out of that dive.

2361:

about its vertical axis. In flight, the plane yaws when the tail moves to the right or left, to the same degree as the nose of the plane moves in the opposite direction. That can only occur in flight. On the ground, the plane's wheels prevent any yaw about that vertical axis because of the strong friction contact with the runway. To yaw on the ground, the nose wheel would have to move sideways and that would most likely cause that nose gear to collapse and it would also most likely cause one or more main gear tires to blow out, due to severe side loads on them.

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after touchdown, but that says nothing about how easy or likely that inadvertent deployment is in flight. And, the Air France reversers were deployed late too, but that was because the plane was landed too fast and too far down the runway in the first place. Again, that accident gives no evidence whatsoever that inadvertent deployment in flight is a "common defect," or that it's "...not that hard to engage them."

3915: 3837: 2879: 3967: 2999: 2975: 3889: 421: 2417:"Possibility of uncontrolled activation of thrust reverser. Similarly to the previous stated possibility, this also is a normal practice during simulator training, and is not a cause for the crash. Actually there are about a minute or so to control this kind of failure. During take-off, with TOP (Take Off Power) applied, the uncommanded activation of a reverser won't cause the aircraft not to fly." 400: 579: 4071: 4045: 2855: 326: 288: 3863: 2759: 723: 702: 513: 3785: 3023: 2807: 2783: 4019: 3993: 3811: 369: 2927: 2736: 733: 651: 640: 629: 618: 607: 523: 3941: 3759: 260: 2370:

reversers inflight, as a form of speed brake. The design on those planes is such that they too have safety devices to prevent inadvertent deployment. The pilot on those planes is allowed to use inflight reversing only within certain strict parameters, so it is still important that inadvertent deployment be prevented by safety designs, on those planes too.

2378:"explains that the thrust reverse can only be engaged while the main thrust levers are in a neutral position. (Ie you can only go in reverse when the engines are turned idle.) I have no idea how competent the Spiegel editors are, but it makes sense to me to have a mechanism in place which forbids the engagement of the reversers while airborne. --" 2261:

be possible and safe to operate with a unserviceable reverser. What we don't know is if that 'isolation' of the malfunctioning system would avoid it to arm uncomandedly. The accidents that happened in the past involving such a failure happened because of subsequent damage due to reversers breakage when crew didn't react appropriately.

2244:

reverser won't cause the aircraft not to fly. There is a picture where one of the thrust reversers can be seen armed. First of all this does not mean that the pilot activated it intentionally. Its actuation could have been due to pilot intentional activation, a system failure, or due to impacts during the uncontrolled off-runway run.

2260:

This is not the first time I've seen this kind of operation after a crash. Conincidientially, the TAM F-100 crashed in Brazil last year was flying also with a thrust reverser inoperative, since this device is not allways mandatory (it is not a NO-GO condition under certain circumstances). So it could

1868:

Many millions of people know about this disaster. However, only a very small proportion of them know its flight number; a substantial proprotion do not know the company's name. As such, redirects from what those looking for this article are very likely to enter in the search box, to this article, are

1209:

Other failures? The most likely causes are (1) engine out below V2 or (2) poor piloting. If the plane is below V2 then it is not controllable on only one engine. The plane will fly on two engines below V2 but not one. MD-80 or not. That the a/c rolled the other way it seems that the a/c was over

1194:

Great journalism... if it was airborne by the laws of physics it would have to be past decision speed... but erhh.. rool due to engine failure?? Not likely, engine out on an md-80 does not cause excessive roll, nothing that is not coutnered byu rudder input. Lets not jump to conclusions on the causes

814:

The pilot is DEAD and no one knows what happened. As a licensed pilot I can tell you this is just baseless speculation. There is no hard evidence of any issue with the engines yet, and even then, it is not clear if that could have lead to a stall. There are another zilion issues that could match this

2484:

According to an article appeared in spanish online newspaper El Mundo on Sept. 7, the airborne/ground sensor of the plane wasn't working well and so it'd explain why the flaps alarm did not sound, as well as the turning on of the de-icing system while on ground, which triggered the temperature gauge

2421:

Dead wrong on all points. Pilots are not trained in simulator to deal with an inadvertent reverser deployment during takeoff, or for any other regime of flight, for that matter. If an engine goes into reverse, shortly after the plane lifts off the ground, and while takeoff thrust is being generated,

2413:

extraordinary measures, in their checklist procedures, most of the time. The main focus of most of the engine failure scenarios, which pilots must deal with successfully in the simulators, has to do with ensuring the pilot can still fly the airplane with one engine failing at the most critical time.

2382:

The Spiegal editors apparently don't know much! There is no such thing as a "neutral" position of the thrust levers. Although the thrust is greatly reduced, when the thrust levers are at the idle position, the engines are still developing forward thrust, and that is why thrust reversers are deployed

2164:

explains that the thrust reverse can only be engaged while the main thrust levers are in a neutral position. (Ie you can only go in reverse when the engines are turned idle.) I have no idea how competent the Spiegel editors are, but it makes sense to me to have a mechanism in place which forbids the

4248:

Several odd wording choices such as "The stall warning horn activated as well as the synthetic voice" and "The first officer called in interrogative tone an engine failure and reduced power on both engines, specially on the right one" aswell as several typos. The sections are badly merged together,

2439:

Again, also dead wrong. Overheat fuses, if triggered from tire heat going too high, cause the tires to go totally and completely flat, very rapidly. There is no such thing as partial deflation, if the fuse melts. And, after an abort, the pilots have to refer to a flight manual table that calculates

2399:

Two other accidents mentioned too, are also not relevant: The SWA plane that ran off the end of the snow-covered runway at Chicago Midway airport and the Air France flight that ran off the end of the runway at Toronto. In the former, there was a delay in getting the reversers deployed on the ground

2373:

As to possible pilot error causing a deployment of a reverser in flight, that would only happen in a suicide situation. I doubt that the reverser can be deployed in flight on the MD-82, but assuming it was possible, the pilot would have to pull the thrust lever all the way back to the idle position

2369:

For the planes that are designed so that they cannot deploy in flight, there are several layers of safety devices to prevent that from happening. The reason is simple: It could cause almost immediate loss of control by the pilot and that usually means a crash. Some planes (like the DC-8) can deploy

2277:

Apparently nobody noticed this, but I am used to watch this aircraft taking off from 7000 ft.-long runways, using a rather low V1 and compensated runway criteria. They normally operate in that runways even with engine failure after V1. I still cannot understand how come this aircraft used 14300 ft.

2141:

Disagree: thrust reverses are supposed to be employed on the ground but there is no intrinsic reason they have to be. I'm not sure what mechanisms are available to prevent in-flight deployment, so I'm not sure whether to ascribe it to pilot error or mechanical defect, but regardless, the fact that

2027:

There's three different sentences regarding deadliest air disasters. While all three are factual and correct, it seems like it's a bit too long/much/repetitive and takes away focus from the main article content. The lead paragraph need to be a little 'tighter' in wording as well as avoiding risk of

1318:

I agree.. who added this? What good does add a history about how many planes crashed in Barajas ? I have reviewd many other crashes wikis and non has a "Airport fatalities" section. I think should be removed.. and/or moved to complement the wiki of Barajas international airport. If anyone wants to

2516:

According to October 27 news on ElPais.com, a ground worker declared to judge Javier Pérez that the aircraft's anti-collission lights were on at the moment of refuelling while the plane was parked. The source affirms that this would be a sign that the plane was incorrectly in flight mode, so that

2412:

As to pilot training, they only have to go to simulator training once a year, for many of the world's major airlines. Various engine failure scenarios are included in that recurrent curriculum, but most of those simulated failures are not catastrophic in nature, and the pilots do not have to take

1489:

The image is of the exact plane involved in the crash, it isn't "wrong", it just happens not to show the exact livery that the aircraft was in yesterday. Whilst a more up to date photo would be nice, having a freely licensed photo of the exact plane at all is valuable. If a more up to date freely

2360:

Again, not correct nomenclature. When on the ground, a plane may (for various reasons) fail to track the runway centerline during takeoff or landing. It may even swerve off the side of the runway. But, if that happens it is not properly referred to as a "yaw." A yaw is a movement of the airplane

2430:

Wrong again. Show me an accident report that says anything like that. The Lauda Air crash happened because one reverser inadvertently deployed and the pilots lost control of the plane almost immediately and they were not able to recover. They were never trained for a situation like that (how to

2308:

Normally, when an aborted take-off is produced a substantial ammount of energy is being dissipated by the brake system. Madrid-Barajas is an airport that requires quite an extensive use of brakes by the crews before take-off, after landing and subsequent taxi to ramp position. In this case, the

2322:

It happened before. And that's why procedure after aborted-take-off require enough time to let tyres cool-down, and pneumatics pressure check before a new take-off attempt could be carried out. There are no clues about this. Obviously CIAIAC members know about this, and will be included in the

2243:

Similarly to the previous stated possibility, this also is a normal practice during simulator training, and is not a cause for the crash. Actually there are about a minute or so to control this kind of failure. During take-off, with TOP (Take Off Power) applied, the uncommanded activation of a

2395:

That is not what that article indicates at all. Crashes caused by inflight deployment of reversers, are extremely rare----almost non-existent, in comparison to all other causes. Three of the crashes mentioned in that article are not relevant to the issue of how likely it is that there was an

1531:

I don't see a particular relevance between any of the 'See Also' section, the cause of the crash is unconfirmed (while runway overrun is a possibility, it has not been confirmed yet), the planes listed weren't even of the same type (They were Airbuses, this plane, although similar, was not)

3098:

While the table is clearly wrong according to the final report (section 1.2 refers), the report doesn't contain the level of detail needed to correct it. It is better to omit this table entirely rather than have such errors in the article, so I have moved it here until it can be fixed.

1179:

News report eyewitness account that the plain was airborne pas decision speed, rolled due to a left engine failure. The tail snapped on the ground and set a 1 Km2 patch of a ground a light. This prevented the emergency services to reach the plane for 15 to 20 minutes. reported at 17:42

2294:

There was stated that the failure that caused the first take-off attempt interruption (aborted take-off), had nothing to do with this accident, and this is most probable to be true. But nobody said nothing about the influence that an aborted take-off could have in the next take-off

2031:

My suggestion: just use a single sentence mentioning deadliest-since-xxx and a single event to compare against, instead of three different ways of looking at it. It doesn't matter to me which sentence stays, but honestly think two of them need to go. Anyone else's take on it?

1296:

Seems like the 'airport history' stuff should be moved into the article on the airport itself instead of being a part of this article. This article is regarding a specific aircraft/incident/crash, so unrelated stuff like past crashes at the airport seems out of place here.

4278:

podcast in an interview on YouTube " Apparently this has been removed from the article "many times before". Obviously the missed flight is entirely trivial with regards to the accident itself. But many aviation accident articles have these mentions? Thanks.

1738:

I uploaded the map, which was created by another Commons user (I merely added the English text, removing the Spanish). The placement of the crash actually seems fairly accurate; it could be moved up just a bit, though. Look at the map provided by CNN

2435:"It won't surprise me if after this pneumatics pressure fuses were partially opened, and some of them could possibly result partially de-inflated. This could cause an important increase in drag during take-off run and could penalize take-off run." 2688:

After creating the table I realised that it was hard to create one because, first of all the "survivors" had to be defined if they survived the crash/and died on route to hospital, or if they survived completely? I need some help with this :)

1139:

The Regional Authority in Madrid has so far confirmed that more than 100 people have been killed as a result of the crash. In addition, it has also been confirmed that there were 166 passengers - including two babies, and 6 crew members on

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I'm not going to argue whether it fits or not, but it's wrong. The collision in 1983 occured while one plane was departing and another turned onto the runway. They weren't both landing at the same time (neither was landing.)

2122:

usually only be employed on the ground means that either the yaw manoeuver started already before the plane got airborne (which seems to contradict the witness reports), or that it had nothing to do with the thrust reversers.

2374:

and then reach for the thrust reverse lever, which is located on the front side of that forward thrust lever, and pull it all the way up. No pilot would ever do something like that unless he was intent on committing suicide.

2488:

Thus it suggests a link between the de-icing sensor and the crash, because failure to sound the flaps alarm on cockpit prevented these from being deployed in take-off procedure, despite the failure of the crew to check out.

1944:

Sources also includes the official airport surveillance video (by the airport authority, AENA) as well as what CNN is now reporting. So far, it appears the fire was a result of the crash rather than preceding the crash.

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how long they must wait, to attempt a subsequent takeoff. That table incorporates many factors, such as OAT, the top speed obtained before the abort was initiated, and how much the plane weighed at the time, etc.

2408:

No, not accurate. Catastrophic engine failure is not normal and in fact is extremely rare. Engine failures on the modern jets are very rare to begin with and most of those failures are not catastrophic in nature.

1020:

El Mundo are saying at least 140 dead. The Spanish Emergency services are saying 28 survived the crash but one of the survivors died on the way to hospital, there were 164 passengers aboard and nine crew.

2528:

is controlled and activated in ground-mode by the relay R2-5, which also activates the de-icing system in flight-mode as well as other systems) didn't sound in the cabin during take-off as indicated by the

683: 499: 270: 3621: 3601: 3443: 2404:"This kind of failure are rather normal and pilots are far well trained to handle it, actually this is a 'must' in every simulator training (that pilots have to pass every six months." 1341:

I added the section to give a home to an existing piece of info about one of the 1983 accidents. Then I expanded it. Feel free to remove the section if you think it doesn't belong. --

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IMO, the picture is incorrectly showing the site of crash - halfway along the runway. Too close. From all accounts it should be farther out (maybe beyond the runway length at all).

2187:] seems to indicate a number of accidents which happened when thrust reversers became operational in flight, so it's either a common defect, or not that hard to engage them. -- 4431: 2391:

seems to indicate a number of accidents which happened when thrust reversers became operational in flight, so it's either a common defect, or not that hard to engage them. -- "

2112:

Thrust reversers are normally employed only while the plane is on the ground, specially just after touching down in a landing to thus contribute to a shorter braking distance.

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We appear to have an expanding list in See also - none of which appear relevant until we know what the cause was. Should they all be deleted before somebody adds a link to

975:

The admon neds to fix the page to be on Spanair Flight 22 to be inline with other articles eg United airlines flight 93 American Airlines Flight 11 and Pan Am Flight 103--

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Also for the record: many famous people had COVID-19 but they did not die of the disease. Does this warrant a mention in the corresponding articles? I don't think so.--

4249:

with "Accident" and "crash sequence" being redundant. Aircraft and accident descriptions should also be separated. Someone put a "needs clean up" flag here if possible

3661: 3657: 3643: 3483: 3479: 3465: 2426:"The accidents that happened in the past involving such a failure happened because of subsequent damage due to reversers breakage when crew didn't react appropriately." 1210:

V2 and the pilots overcontrolled. That's my bet, anyway. That there was some other mechanical cause at the same time as the engine failure is a little too unlikely.

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of take off run and was not able to get airborne (didn't reach enough speed). This would mean a low acceleration rate, something that already happened in other places.

915:

They were right, yes... but they were reporting 150 dead 30 minutes after the crash, when emergency services had only confirmed 50! A lot of speculation there... and

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I removed that section. Expressing condolences is a matter of courtesy and there's no need to mention each political leader who felt the urge to say something. --

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I read on multiple news sites now that witnesses, including another captain in another plane landing when the Spanair took off, that there were no engine fire.

90: 2356:"The fact that the reversers can usually only be employed on the ground means that either the yaw manoeuver started already before the plane got airborne...." 1778: 2365:"I'm not sure what mechanisms are available to prevent in-flight deployment, so I'm not sure whether to ascribe it to pilot error or mechanical defect,...." 855:

Yes, both the captain and first officer. I know they recovered one of their bodies within only a few hours. Hopefully the CVR and DFDR yields some insight.

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The second part of the sentence has recently been added, but I feel it distracts from the point I had tried to make when introducing the first half of it.

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https://web.archive.org/20091229185409/http://www.fomento.es:80/NR/rdonlyres/9AA08FE0-1151-41A0-9A57-9C5DF8BF6F8E/52877/2008_032_A_INTERINO_01_ENG1.pdf

3602:

https://web.archive.org/20091229185409/http://www.fomento.es:80/NR/rdonlyres/9AA08FE0-1151-41A0-9A57-9C5DF8BF6F8E/52877/2008_032_A_INTERINO_01_ENG1.pdf

3444:

https://web.archive.org/20100613044220/http://www.fomento.es:80/NR/rdonlyres/C58972BC-B96C-4E14-B047-71B89DD0173E/43303/PreliminaryReportA_032_2008.pdf

2067:

Guys, can someone please check their references for surivivors/no. of passengers/number dead? We have 162 passengers, but add up dead+survivors = 172.

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I think we could make a separate section on the emergency response for this article. Do any of the news articles cover this angle adequately? __

4461: 4451: 3611: 3290: 779: 3314: 2648: 4466: 4250: 2653: 2610: 1927: 1624: 1557: 1054: 1001: 41: 2663: 1781:? Don't be try to be so accurate: all the info is approximative, as the black box hasn't yet been analysed and the investigation is open. 3201: 2465: 2033: 1946: 1695: 1533: 1304: 856: 3572:

https://web.archive.org/20080823232257/http://www.spanair.com:80/web/en-gb/About-Spanair/Spanair-News/Regarding-flight-number-JK-50222/

1243:

There were 166 passengers, not 164, according to spanish media. . The airplane had 15 years old (nine of them operating with Spanair).

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of the crash but I doubt that engine out had much to do with the actual crashing, roll would have to be caused by other failures.

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Turn out they were right afterward. Dead count is now 153 and probably will raise as there are many injured with serious burns.

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http://www.elpais.com/articulo/espana/ordenador/Spanair/anotaba/fallos/aviones/tenia/virus/elpepuesp/20100820elpepinac_11/Tes

2383:

on the ground----to eliminate that forward thrust, which helps to shorten the stopping distance during the landing sequence.

2104:#There's no way to tell for sure yet. Let's wait until we get the results of the investigation before making a final call. 1740: 1490:

licensed photo can be found then by all means this can be replaced but if not then this remains very useful to our readers.

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The article explains that the plan rolls to the left, but th picture shows that the plane rolled right. What is right?

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http://www.kreindler.com/Recent-Developments/Kreindler-Kreindler-LLP-Investiga-la-Caida-del-Vuelo-5022-de-Spanair.shtml

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I would like to add some few comments just to de-mistify some of the asseverations we were able to read at the press:

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Some sources point to the activation of the No. 1 thrust reverser as a possibility, not the No. 2 thrust reverser.

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after an edit history had been established. I don't care where the article lives, but we have two histories now. --

540:. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see lists of 309: 3592:

https://web.archive.org/20080902040413/http://ap.google.com:80/article/ALeqM5iZGjqoRsHwCookXNzTtwupigxBRAD92MM2O00

3582:

https://web.archive.org/20080823022050/http://ap.google.com:80/article/ALeqM5iZGjqoRsHwCookXNzTtwupigxBRAD92M4MS00

3185:

http://www.fomento.gob.es/MFOM/LANG_CASTELLANO/ORGANOS_COLEGIADOS/CIAIAC/INVESTIGACION/2008/SPANAIR/PRELIMINAR.htm

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http://www.kreindler.com/Recent-Developments/Kreindler-Kreindler-LLP-Investigates-Spanair-Flight-5022-Crash.shtml

3250:

http://www.fomento.gob.es/NR/rdonlyres/2CC3ADCB-6E59-43CF-98D3-8D119FEE30D9/76728/PreliminaryReportA_032_2009.pdf

2517:

would add to the de-icing RAT probe and the TOWS malfunction, wich are all governed by the ground/flight sensor.

3660:

to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the

3482:

to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the

3226:

http://www.fomento.gob.es/NR/rdonlyres/AADDBF93-690C-4186-983C-8D897F09EAA5/75736/2008_032_A_INTERINO_01_ENG.pdf

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http://www.fomento.gob.es/MFOM/LANG_CASTELLANO/ORGANOS_COLEGIADOS/CIAIAC/INVESTIGACION/2008/SPANAIR/PROGRESO.htm

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http://www.fomento.gob.es/MFOM/LANG_CASTELLANO/ORGANOS_COLEGIADOS/CIAIAC/INVESTIGACION/2008/SPANAIR/INTERINO.htm

1092:

I'd be quite happy to clear up this issue if I knew what was wrong with the current title. Please explain this.

877:

They have misunderstood the death toll number! it is only 45 confirmed by now, watching it live on Spanish TV...

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http://www.fomento.gob.es/MFOM/LANG_CASTELLANO/ORGANOS_COLEGIADOS/CIAIAC/INVESTIGACION/2008/SPANAIR/default.htm

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Agreed.. i only wanted to comment that they finally were right but only by chance, not justifying their "bet"

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http://www.fomento.gob.es/NR/rdonlyres/0C2AC4C7-8183-42D6-9CB9-AFDF6EBA71C3/76745/2008_032_A_PROGRESO_ENG1.pdf

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http://www.fomento.gob.es/MFOM/LANG_CASTELLANO/ORGANOS_COLEGIADOS/CIAIAC/INVESTIGACION/2008/032_2008_FINAL.htm

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http://www.fomento.es/NR/rdonlyres/9AA08FE0-1151-41A0-9A57-9C5DF8BF6F8E/52877/2008_032_A_INTERINO_01_ENG1.pdf

3606:

http://www.fomento.es/NR/rdonlyres/9AA08FE0-1151-41A0-9A57-9C5DF8BF6F8E/52877/2008_032_A_INTERINO_01_ENG1.pdf

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http://www.fomento.es/NR/rdonlyres/C58972BC-B96C-4E14-B047-71B89DD0173E/43303/PreliminaryReportA_032_2008.pdf

3303:

http://www.fomento.gob.es/NR/rdonlyres/320E4950-2E91-4DA9-A549-66F3A23EB31D/76734/2008_032_A_PROGRESO_ESP.pdf

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spiegel.de posted speculations that one of the thrust reversers was deactivated three days before the crash.

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Yes, this picture is wrong. I think it should be removed until a Star Alliance liveried plane can be put up.

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https://web.archive.org/20080906005235/http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article4685414.ece

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http://www.fomento.gob.es/NR/rdonlyres/797E0F60-6C38-4F4C-9B39-03E7F9208758/52774/2008_032_A_INTERINO_01.pdf

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http://www.fomento.gob.es/NR/rdonlyres/7E9860AA-97F4-451B-811A-BAF81882FBD5/43299/2008_032_A_preliminar.pdf

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http://www.fomento.es/NR/rdonlyres/320E4950-2E91-4DA9-A549-66F3A23EB31D/76734/2008_032_A_PROGRESO_ESP.pdf

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Can anyone provide the official statement from the Regional Authority or a news article to confirm this?

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If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with

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If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with

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http://www.fomento.es/NR/rdonlyres/797E0F60-6C38-4F4C-9B39-03E7F9208758/52774/2008_032_A_INTERINO_01.pdf

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Not only that, but it appears to have crashed way before the end of the runway after getting airborne.

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on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join

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on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join

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http://www.fomento.es/NR/rdonlyres/7E9860AA-97F4-451B-811A-BAF81882FBD5/43299/2008_032_A_preliminar.pdf

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reversers are (obviously) not supposed to be deployed during takeoff does not mean it did not happen.

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I think the crash was off the end of the runway - contrary to what is show in the ´map´. Please check.

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Can an admin fix the history? We have two occurrences of this article. This article was redirected to

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http://www.fomento.gob.es/NR/rdonlyres/EC47A855-B098-409E-B4C8-9A6DD0D0969F/107087/2008_032_A_ENG.pdf

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The nationality of 22 survivors is given as "other", although most of these were presumably Spanish.

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http://www.fomento.gob.es/NR/rdonlyres/84942CEB-0B4F-4918-9D42-02F520EB315A/41178/REC_01_09_ENG.pdf

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Given that the hull suffered so massive damage it is clear we will not know the cause in a while.

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http://www.fomento.gob.es/NR/rdonlyres/C4A41FC7-89D7-42C5-B5F1-7DC96ACD287F/105210/2008_032_A.pdf

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before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template

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before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template

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http://www.fomento.gob.es/NR/rdonlyres/25F8919F-204C-47D5-BF3A-8CC3E2D11347/41174/REC_01_09.pdf

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Does anybody mind if I restore the previous state with only the first half of the sentence? --

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http://www.spanair.com/web/en-gb/About-Spanair/Spanair-News/Regarding-flight-number-JK-50222/

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This article should be moved to Spanair Flight 5022, but only an administrator can do so. –

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http://www.fomento.es/NR/rdonlyres/25F8919F-204C-47D5-BF3A-8CC3E2D11347/41174/REC_01_09.pdf

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published by the media and source #45, the Take-Off Warning System alarm (TOWS, a part of

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According to the spanish media the video shows that there weren´t a fire until the crash.

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Please move. The wrong title is being aped on other Wikiepdias, so we're not helping... --

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If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with

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If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with

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http://www.fomento.gob.es/MFOM/LANG_CASTELLANO/ORGANOS_COLEGIADOS/CIAIAC/REC_01_09.htm

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necessary. These need to include: August 2008 Madrid plane crash, Spanair plane crash.

994:

SAS has confirmed 166 passengers were on board and that 27 have survived 19 injured.

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Of course, if the engine *exploded* then perhaps that caused other systems to fail.

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https://djmag.com/content/deadmau5-reveals-he-nearly-died-plane-crash-10-years-ago

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http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/591535/DNA-tests-to-identify-Madrid-air-crash-victims

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Indeed - I'd recommend removing that diagram, as it is incorrect and misleading.

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https://24.sapo.pt/PaginaInicial/Internacional/Interior.aspx?content_id=982578

4170: 4156: 3919: 3841: 3726: 3707: 3652:. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than 3529: 3474:. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than 3401: 3352: 3335: 3110: 2902: 2830: 2698: 2678: 2636: 2618: 2591: 2557: 2511: 2473: 2451: 2196: 2174: 2151: 2135: 2100: 2080: 2056: 2016: 2004: 1997: 1954: 1935: 1920: 1893: 1878: 1858: 1830: 1821:. Discard the CNN map, the plane did not hit the runway straight as it shows. 1809: 1790: 1782: 1772: 1733: 1719: 1703: 1678: 1659: 1643:

Is it too soon to post to say that the survivors were between rows 14 and 17?

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know about airplane accidents in Barajas then he/she should visit its wiki.

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Computer virus in ground maintenance system allowed faulty plane to take off

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A news item involving Spanair Flight 5022 was featured on Knowledge (XXG)'s

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http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5iZGjqoRsHwCookXNzTtwupigxBRAD92MM2O00

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http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5iZGjqoRsHwCookXNzTtwupigxBRAD92M4MS00

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after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add

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after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add

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https://www.theguardian.com/world/2008/aug/22/spain.theairlineindustry1

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http://www.abc.es/gestordocumental/uploads/nacional/informeSpanair.pdf

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Comisión_de_Investigación_de_Accidentes_e_Incidentes_de_Aviación_Civil

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http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article4685414.ece

3022: 2854: 2806: 2782: 2292:::5th:: Connection of the accident with te previous take-off attempt. 1426:

Presumably that's not the specific plane. Shouldn't there be a note?

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to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:

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to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:

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Done. It would help for those just doing a more general search.--

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http://www.elmundo.es/elmundo/2008/graficos/ago/s3/t4_spanair.html

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in 1993 and it was registered HL7204 and HL7548. It was leased to

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The correct aviation nomenclature is "deployed," not "employed."

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The number of survivors is given as 26, when it was actually 18.

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What's the relevance of the link to the Philippines Air crash?

1747:. The runways at Barajas are deceptive, due to a considerable 1579:

Could someone move the article back to Spanair Flight 5022? –

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Some statements in this section that need more clarification:

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This airplane, registered EC-HFP was originally delivered to

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When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the

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When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the

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http://www.spanair.com/web/es-es/DSite/Listado-de-pasajeros/

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http://www.jetphotos.net/viewphoto.php?id=6269382&nseq=3

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Three non-Spanish survivors are shown, there were only two.

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is the Google autotranslation, but it's not very readable.

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investigation. But I think this fact should not be ignored.

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A fact from this article was featured on Knowledge (XXG)'s

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That's an interesting analogy. Did they all have tickets?

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The Spanish Spanair stuff seems to be down at the moment:

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No link is known between this de-activation and the crash.

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Spanair confirms 164 passengers and 9 crew were on board

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http://www.spanair.com/web/es-es/DSite/Ultimo-comunicado/

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Too many 'deadliest' events listed in the lead paragraph?

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I have just added archive links to one external link on

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Yeah, they had a ticket to ride but they didn't care.--

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I have just added archive links to 6 external links on

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Fire on port engine ??? Crashed beacuse of airspeed ??

2258:::3rd:: Aircraft flying with one reverser inoperative. 171: 1279: 2601:

Major media news about SF5022, already Slashdotted:

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de-icing system as stated in the wikipedia article.

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http://www.spiegel.de/panorama/0,1518,574947,00.html

2225:::1st:: Possibility of engine 'catastrophic failure' 2162:

http://www.spiegel.de/panorama/0,1518,574456,00.html

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This article has been checked against the following

432:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of 3656:using the archive tool instructions below. Editors 3478:using the archive tool instructions below. Editors 589: 185: 3732:What do you think of the nationality chart I made? 3088:The number of crew is given as 10, it should be 6. 3081:There are a number of inaccuracies in this table: 1751:on 18R (the threshold is 3232 feet down the runway 4397:Knowledge (XXG) articles that use British English 4162:It is totally unsourced, as most of your edits.-- 1777:I'm the original uploader. ¿Something like this: 2028:putting undue weight on any one single element. 44:for general discussion of the article's subject. 4358:Deadmau5 On How He Almost Died In a Plane Crash 2165:engagement of the reversers while airborne. -- 446:Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject Disaster management 3642:This message was posted before February 2018. 3464:This message was posted before February 2018. 1779:Image:Accidente_barajas_2008_localizacion.png 1239:166 (164 plus two babies), not 164 passengers 8: 4432:Low-importance Disaster management articles 2520:According to the preliminary report by the 2348:"Thrust reversers are normally employed..." 1378:I know nothing about image use. Can we use 4229:No nationality breakdown in this source.-- 3735: 2582:I do not know why they don't seem to work 1972:Someone needs to explain in the lede what 696: 586: 483: 394: 213:, which has its own spelling conventions ( 1758:and you'll see what I'm talking about. - 4274:discussed barely missing this flight on 2707: 2542:Preliminary Report source (in spanish): 2185:P.S. -- I guess you're right, Fletcher: 534:This article is within the scope of the 449:Template:WikiProject Disaster management 4348: 4118: 2457:Update for thrust reverser speculations 2047:I have tweaked the lead to simplify it. 1983: 1292:Airport history section not a good fit? 1272: 698: 485: 396: 366: 2719: 2716: 2669:These are listed for archival reasons 2476:Quality Control 2008-08-29, 05:59 UTC 1440:Supposedly, it is the same plane... -- 1392:nevermind. It's in the article now. -- 1114:says it should be <<airline: --> 552:. To use this banner, please see the 4447:Aviation accident task force articles 245:, this should not be changed without 7: 4427:B-Class Disaster management articles 4422:Selected anniversaries (August 2023) 4417:Selected anniversaries (August 2020) 4412:Selected anniversaries (August 2012) 4407:Selected anniversaries (August 2010) 4402:Knowledge (XXG) In the news articles 3386:http://www.webcitation.org/651bqeubj 3373:http://www.webcitation.org/651boyjjY 3320:http://www.webcitation.org/642RfprYu 3308:http://www.webcitation.org/642Re8Uam 3296:http://www.webcitation.org/642RVbwge 3284:http://www.webcitation.org/642RSp8ah 3272:http://www.webcitation.org/642QlrYPK 3255:http://www.webcitation.org/642QgvXnR 3243:http://www.webcitation.org/642Qf4yPN 3231:http://www.webcitation.org/642QaEKaF 3219:http://www.webcitation.org/642QYeIKR 3207:http://www.webcitation.org/642QTQxBU 3190:http://www.webcitation.org/642SPvZMm 3178:http://www.webcitation.org/642SO5F3K 3166:http://www.webcitation.org/642SLrE4Z 3154:http://www.webcitation.org/642SGxoeK 3142:http://www.webcitation.org/642S5zsP9 3130:http://www.webcitation.org/642S3zb9M 2387:"-- I guess you're right, Fletcher: 1403:Section needed on emergency response 744:This article is within the scope of 562:Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject Aviation 426:This article is within the scope of 3340:Also the report has been posted to 1382:? If so, what needs to be done? -- 837:Has the pilot been confirmed dead? 385:It is of interest to the following 34:for discussing improvements to the 4442:B-Class Aviation accident articles 25: 4244:This page really needs tidying up 3546:. Please take a moment to review 3418:. Please take a moment to review 3362:By Kriendler & Kriendler LLP 1116:Flight <<flight number: --> 764:Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject Spain 269:on 20 August 2008. The result of 61:New to Knowledge (XXG)? Welcome! 4095: 4069: 4043: 4017: 3991: 3965: 3939: 3913: 3887: 3861: 3835: 3809: 3783: 3757: 3021: 2997: 2973: 2949: 2925: 2901: 2877: 2853: 2829: 2805: 2781: 2757: 2734: 2502:should be checked-out then... -- 1639:Survivors between rows 14 and 17 1358:Aviaco 134 McDonell Douglas DC-9 873:WARNING, Times online is WRONG!! 731: 721: 700: 649: 638: 627: 616: 605: 521: 511: 487: 419: 398: 367: 324: 286: 258: 199: 56:Click here to start a new topic. 1112:aviation accident project guide 784:This article has been rated as 466:This article has been rated as 429:WikiProject Disaster management 265:This article was nominated for 2679:15:35, 12 September 2010 (UTC) 2480:Airborne/ground sensor failure 2338:) 19:14, 30 August 2008 (UTC) 2275:::4th:: Abnormal take-off run. 1: 4462:Low-importance Spain articles 4452:WikiProject Aviation articles 3708:04:00, 24 February 2016 (UTC) 3336:03:21, 19 December 2011 (UTC) 3111:12:23, 12 November 2011 (UTC) 2512:14:58, 7 September 2008 (UTC) 2087:Location off end of runway??? 1454:The aircraft was wearing the 952:10:29, 2 September 2008 (UTC) 758:and see a list of open tasks. 684:the Aviation accident project 681:This article is supported by 565:Template:WikiProject Aviation 440:and see a list of open tasks. 53:Put new text under old text. 4238:22:10, 27 January 2019 (UTC) 4224:22:04, 27 January 2019 (UTC) 4202:21:30, 13 January 2019 (UTC) 4188:19:06, 12 January 2019 (UTC) 4171:16:15, 12 January 2019 (UTC) 4157:15:50, 12 January 2019 (UTC) 3530:23:37, 24 January 2016 (UTC) 3402:08:43, 28 January 2012 (UTC) 3353:00:49, 1 February 2012 (UTC) 2699:20:09, 3 December 2010 (UTC) 2558:17:41, 27 October 2008 (UTC) 2544:Comission Preliminary Report 2452:12:23, 9 December 2008 (UTC) 2118:The fact that the reversers 452:Disaster management articles 4467:All WikiProject Spain pages 4259:19:25, 1 January 2023 (UTC) 2637:16:49, 21 August 2010 (UTC) 2619:17:39, 20 August 2010 (UTC) 2474:05:56, 29 August 2008 (UTC) 2197:14:33, 26 August 2008 (UTC) 2175:14:27, 26 August 2008 (UTC) 2152:14:18, 26 August 2008 (UTC) 2136:11:53, 26 August 2008 (UTC) 2101:10:03, 26 August 2008 (UTC) 2081:03:03, 26 August 2008 (UTC) 2057:19:08, 25 August 2008 (UTC) 2042:18:50, 25 August 2008 (UTC) 2017:15:06, 22 August 2008 (UTC) 1998:14:59, 22 August 2008 (UTC) 1955:05:17, 24 August 2008 (UTC) 1936:17:04, 23 August 2008 (UTC) 1921:13:34, 22 August 2008 (UTC) 1894:17:11, 21 August 2008 (UTC) 1879:15:19, 21 August 2008 (UTC) 1859:14:34, 21 August 2008 (UTC) 1831:14:10, 22 August 2008 (UTC) 1810:13:58, 22 August 2008 (UTC) 1791:09:18, 22 August 2008 (UTC) 1773:20:59, 21 August 2008 (UTC) 1734:14:33, 21 August 2008 (UTC) 1720:14:24, 21 August 2008 (UTC) 1704:10:40, 21 August 2008 (UTC) 1679:10:21, 21 August 2008 (UTC) 1660:06:25, 21 August 2008 (UTC) 1633:01:41, 21 August 2008 (UTC) 1599:21:48, 20 August 2008 (UTC) 1584:21:19, 20 August 2008 (UTC) 1566:01:45, 21 August 2008 (UTC) 1542:22:50, 20 August 2008 (UTC) 1526:21:17, 20 August 2008 (UTC) 1500:10:13, 21 August 2008 (UTC) 1485:10:05, 21 August 2008 (UTC) 1471:09:02, 21 August 2008 (UTC) 1450:00:56, 21 August 2008 (UTC) 1435:21:14, 20 August 2008 (UTC) 1417:20:25, 20 August 2008 (UTC) 1397:19:32, 20 August 2008 (UTC) 1387:18:31, 20 August 2008 (UTC) 1369:00:03, 21 August 2008 (UTC) 1346:18:31, 20 August 2008 (UTC) 1335:18:26, 20 August 2008 (UTC) 1313:17:45, 20 August 2008 (UTC) 1234:08:37, 22 August 2008 (UTC) 1220:08:29, 22 August 2008 (UTC) 1205:09:51, 21 August 2008 (UTC) 1190:16:57, 20 August 2008 (UTC) 1128:19:45, 20 August 2008 (UTC) 1102:19:34, 20 August 2008 (UTC) 1088:19:22, 20 August 2008 (UTC) 1078:16:25, 20 August 2008 (UTC) 1069:Move to Spanair Flight 5022 1063:16:24, 20 August 2008 (UTC) 1037:16:14, 20 August 2008 (UTC) 1010:15:40, 20 August 2008 (UTC) 985:15:32, 20 August 2008 (UTC) 971:15:29, 20 August 2008 (UTC) 929:06:25, 22 August 2008 (UTC) 907:22:21, 20 August 2008 (UTC) 887:15:16, 20 August 2008 (UTC) 865:05:14, 24 August 2008 (UTC) 847:02:47, 22 August 2008 (UTC) 18:Talk:Spanair Flight JK 5022 4483: 3727:10:39, 7 August 2016 (UTC) 3673:(last update: 5 June 2024) 3564:|deny=InternetArchiveBot}} 3539:Hello fellow Wikipedians, 3495:(last update: 5 June 2024) 3436:|deny=InternetArchiveBot}} 3411:Hello fellow Wikipedians, 3120:Spanish/English webpages: 2727: 2724: 2609:Blame Windows once again. 1818:BBC gives a different map 919:, not serious journalism. 790:project's importance scale 767:Template:WikiProject Spain 610:Referencing and citation: 472:project's importance scale 305:section on 20 August 2008. 4437:B-Class aviation articles 4334:21:38, 5 April 2024 (UTC) 4321:11:16, 4 April 2024 (UTC) 4303:11:08, 4 April 2024 (UTC) 4289:13:07, 3 April 2024 (UTC) 2713: 2710: 1165:) 16:29, August 20, 2008 807:This is all speculation!! 783: 716: 680: 506: 465: 414: 393: 91:Be welcoming to newcomers 2592:04:12, 7 June 2009 (UTC) 3535:External links modified 3407:External links modified 1754:). Find the airport in 1743:or another by El Mundo 832:) 17:28, 21 August 2008 621:Coverage and accuracy: 4457:B-Class Spain articles 4367:– via www.youtube.com. 4270:Just for the record: " 2531:Cockpit_voice_recorder 1900:Engine on fire or not? 677: 654:Supporting materials: 582: 375:This article is rated 314: 86:avoid personal attacks 2704:Nationalities infobox 2563:Spanish Spanair sites 1354:Iberia 350 Boeing 727 676: 581: 379:on Knowledge (XXG)'s 312: 111:Neutral point of view 4216:TrueLightningStriker 3654:regular verification 3639:to let others know. 3550:. If necessary, add 3476:regular verification 3461:to let others know. 3422:. If necessary, add 1463://\\ AirbusA346 //\\ 537:Aviation WikiProject 243:relevant style guide 239:varieties of English 116:No original research 3644:After February 2018 3635:parameter below to 3544:Spanair Flight 5022 3466:After February 2018 3457:parameter below to 3416:Spanair Flight 5022 3262:Spanish documents: 3197:English documents: 2538:El Pais.com article 1795:Updated. Thanks. - 1749:displaced threshold 1171:BBC news eyewitness 643:Grammar and style: 596:for B-class status: 443:Disaster management 434:Disaster management 406:Disaster management 241:. According to the 36:Spanair Flight 5022 4193:The url is dead.-- 3649:InternetArchiveBot 3471:InternetArchiveBot 2003:I've linked it to 678: 583: 381:content assessment 315: 97:dispute resolution 58: 4214:How about these? 4146: 4145: 3706: 3674: 3528: 3496: 3079: 3078: 1807: 1770: 1706: 1694:comment added by 1635: 1623:comment added by 1568: 1556:comment added by 1337: 1325:comment added by 1315: 1303:comment added by 1264: 1250:comment added by 1167: 1153:comment added by 1065: 1053:comment added by 1039: 1027:comment added by 1012: 1000:comment added by 964:Spanair Flight 22 954: 942:comment added by 909: 897:comment added by 833: 824:comment added by 804: 803: 800: 799: 796: 795: 747:WikiProject Spain 695: 694: 691: 690: 667: 666: 568:aviation articles 554:full instructions 482: 481: 478: 477: 361: 360: 319: 318: 281: 280: 253: 252: 194: 193: 77:Assume good faith 54: 16:(Redirected from 4474: 4380: 4375: 4369: 4368: 4366: 4365: 4353: 4100: 4099: 4098: 4074: 4073: 4072: 4048: 4047: 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1684:Inconsistencies 1667: 1641: 1607: 1577: 1514: 1512:Philippines Air 1424: 1405: 1376: 1294: 1289: 1288: 1287: 1278: 1274: 1245: 1241: 1173: 1148: 1136: 1134:citation needed 1071: 1045: 1018: 992: 960: 875: 809: 769: 766: 763: 760: 759: 737: 732: 730: 710: 655: 650: 644: 639: 633: 628: 622: 617: 611: 606: 567: 564: 561: 558: 557: 529:Aviation portal 527: 522: 520: 497: 451: 448: 445: 442: 441: 408: 376: 355:August 20, 2023 351:August 20, 2020 347:August 20, 2012 343:August 20, 2010 313:Knowledge (XXG) 247:broad consensus 210:British English 132: 127: 126: 125: 102: 72: 23: 22: 15: 12: 11: 5: 4480: 4478: 4470: 4469: 4464: 4459: 4454: 4449: 4444: 4439: 4434: 4429: 4424: 4419: 4414: 4409: 4404: 4399: 4389: 4388: 4382: 4381: 4370: 4347: 4346: 4342: 4341: 4340: 4339: 4338: 4337: 4336: 4313:Martinevans123 4306: 4305: 4281:Martinevans123 4267: 4262: 4251:178.159.87.149 4245: 4242: 4241: 4240: 4207: 4205: 4204: 4174: 4173: 4144: 4143: 4138: 4133: 4128: 4123: 4117: 4116: 4113: 4110: 4107: 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549:task forces 341:section on 338:On this day 301:In the news 275:speedy keep 208:written in 159:free images 42:not a forum 4391:Categories 4364:2024-04-03 4344:References 3842:Mauritania 3742:Passengers 2883:Bulgarian 2787:Brazilian 2717:Survivors 1617:in 1999. 1611:Korean Air 1268:References 815:scenario. 543:open tasks 3972:Indonesia 3688:this tool 3681:this tool 3510:this tool 3503:this tool 3379:Spanish: 3366:English: 2979:Bolivian 2444:EditorASC 2071:+10 crew 1976:means. — 1974:hull loss 1963:Hull loss 1671:Matthiasb 1665:Reactions 1589:Done. -- 1422:Top image 1197:Noserider 1182:Scubafish 977:Somali123 500:Accidents 333:Main Page 295:Main Page 219:travelled 99:if needed 82:Be polite 32:talk page 4272:Deadmau5 4265:Deadmau5 3894:Bulgaria 3694:Cheers.— 3554:cbignore 3516:Cheers.— 3426:cbignore 3027:Swedish 3003:Finnish 2931:Italian 2907:Gambian 2859:Turkish 2740:Spanish 2295:attempt. 2144:Fletcher 2093:Ariconte 2073:Fletcher 1847:Aircraft 1841:See also 1726:Radagast 1692:unsigned 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