1994:" the ROMAN Julian calendar was used, not the later Christian one. This calendar was longer than the astronomical year, and hence astronomical events would not fall on the same date every year. So, if you want to put a statement up regarding what happened at what date while we were using a totally different calendar than the current one... well, you will have to provide the specific calculations for placing some event at this particular date or the other. That, or provide a link to a source that performs that calculation. This is no trivial matter, as none of our calendars are exactly the same lenght as the astronomical year.
1889:), even if it has a Christian theme. Light refers to long winter nights as well as the Christian Light - and also to a third type of light; as a hidden mark of resistance against German occupation (in WWII). This means that the day has a secular popular interpretation, the Christian "cover story" being just that, to all except Christians. I suggest to rewrite that section, so as to make it religiously neutral, but respecting both the value of that day to Christians, as well as the different value to common secular (non-religious) Danes. Also, so called "pagans" might have yet another interpretation of that day.
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1977:) However, "A.D." is a Christian term (Anno Domini), and "Year Zero" according to that term is the year of the birthday of the Christian main deity Jesus Christ. The date of this birthday, as far as I recall from memory (someone please correct me if wrong) was set/decided upon by the church, in the year 374 CE, or thereabouts. Meaning
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English speakers really don't celebrate Saint Lucy's day as much. I've only heard it in the context of
Swedish celebrations, where they always refer to it as "Saint Lucia's Day". I was shocked to see it translated to such an irrelevant version. I agree with Gerda that we should refer to her primarily
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Question on the photo "Statue of St. Lucy at Saint
Leonard of Port Maurice Church in the North End of Boston" - since martyrs' images usually depict the means of martyrdom, why does that statue hold out a dish containing eyes - not mentioned in any of the myths in the text ? Are we certain that the
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Very interesting article. In
England, children celebrate Halloween, when witches ride about in the sky on broomsticks, on 31 October, which I believe marked the end of the old year in the ancient Celtic calender. This, of course, is going back to pre-Christian times, which in England is effectively
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December 21 in the
Gregorian, aka. now. Same source states use of the name "Little Yule" for the day, that it was among the most important days of the year, that it marked the start of Christmas month, and that with the move to the Gregorian calendar (in Sweden 1753) the date (not the celebration)
1951:
The same argument is relevant for the mention of eg. "Winter
Solstice" in the article (previously the 13, now the 21 - it did not move, we just changed calendar). It is important to be clear on what calendar system is used when discussing historical events, especially events related to astronomy,
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The saint and her holy day have been known as St. Lucy and St. Lucy's Day forever in
English. Scandinavians do not dominate that enough, just because they celebrate the day in their own way (which has little if anything to do with the actual historical woman), that we should name the article in
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The sentence about the hednic population is very confusing. Firstly, the word "hednic" is not listed in the Oxford
English Dictionary. If the word meant is heathen, then some explanation should be offered as to why pre-christian peoples would have a watchnight based on fear of the christian
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Does the sentence "In
Scandinavia this was also the date in the Gregorian calendar earlier celebrated by the hednic population that was afraid of Lucifer (the devil himself) " make any sense? If the population is hednic, what does it know about the christian devil? (The
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or CE in stead of A.D. when discussing temporal phenomena. For
Christian religious discussions in-between Christians A.D. may probably do, but for neutral "encyclopaedic" discussions about time in a historical context this may actually be misleading.
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before the fourth century AD, since Roman
Christianity was introduced into the province of Britannia then, and the pagan Anglo-Saxons who followed wouldn't have retained the old Celtic calender. Goes to show how ancient traditions can survive.
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Are you kidding? Wanna clean up the grammar/spelling on this? I think it's pretty clear this particular portion of the entry isn't very scholarly. Perhaps some sources would help here rather than an "everyone knows that..." approach.
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1932:) December 13 was just a random date with no astronomical or seasonal significance. Lusinatta -- judged from context -- seems only to make sense if it was coupled to Winter Solstice, and Yule.
1928:" - which is unclear. The "was" - what time frame does that refer to? It is important, as in the Julian Calendar December 13 was Winter Solstice, but after the shift to the Gregorian Calendar (
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For what it's worth, I find the second photo, described as being taken in 2006, to be far more spectacular and beautiful and frankly notable than the first. Let me recommend swapping the two.
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Soon after Halloween, in England, of course, we have a fire festival, on 5 November. In Yarmouth, on the Isle of Wight, there is a torch procession through the village to the bonfire.
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This article is a hoax, and cheap catholic propaganda. Scandinavian Lussi is no same person as Sicilian Lucy. Italian author Enrico Altavilla explains it clearly. Eliécer Guillén.
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True. And the Lutheran church venerates few saints, but is mostly Maria, Peter, Martyrs day and so on. It is not a veneration in the churches, but a public holliday.
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and gingerbread men are usually only part of Lucia processions featuring small children. In processions featuring teenagers or adults, all males are dressed as
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goes into details on the eyes, so it appears the image is correct. But it does seem like something that would be good to explain in this article too.
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Isn't the date of the solstice relatively easy to determine using a pole of a fixed height and recording the maximum shadow length (at noon)?
1583:"The Swedish Syndrome: St.Lucy´s day, how a Sicialian woman can be worshiped in the far North"<1--can a better reference be located?--: -->
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It seems that the section on Denmark is written with a clear Christian bias. This may not be obvious to Christian readers. Most Danes
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This article is not about a celebration of a saint, it should not start with the saint. This article was butchered quite unnecessary.
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What, nothing of the holiday that the christians re-formed into a day about a saint? The one with all the really amusing traditions?
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When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
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Until recently, this was Saint Lucy's Day, now St Lucy's Day. Only the English say so. Americans would say St. Lucy's Day, Swedes
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another language. Scandinavian celebrations, and her name as used there, are covered sufficiently in the article as is. --
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At the time of Saint Lucy's death, Winter solstice fell on December 21 and the date of the birth of Christ on the 25th.
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seasons, or other recurring events in Nature. December 13, 1700 in Britain or Sweden would be December 21 in 2014.
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Agreed! I will sit down and (yet again) rewrite this article from Swenglish or Norwenglish or whatever this is. --
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Those who celebrate her most, in Sicily and Sweden, say Lucia, not Lucy. That should show in the article more. --
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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
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I do however think that this is something that should be looked over, as the article as it is now suggests that
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https://web.archive.org/web/20120903152016/http://ac-support.europe.umuc.edu/~jmatthew/naples/Lucy.html
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This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between
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image is of the correct saint, or the correct St. Lucy (since there might be more than one).
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The whole article is unclear in reference to specific dates. Example: "Lusinatta" section:
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Much of this information is already in the Celebrations part in the article Saint Lucy.
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http://www.griffith.edu.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0010/54964/christmas-traditions.pdf
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I'm not 100% sure that I'm right about this, and would like someone to confirm it.
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Lucia - in standard English rhymes with the fourth and fifth words in "I had to
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There are two reasons as to why I'm not going to edit this article myself:
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after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add
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in the Swedish Lucia processions, which I'm fairly sure isn't the case.
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The Swedes also say Lucia, and that doesn't appear in the article. --
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to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
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OK, I made quite a few changes to language and tried to tidy up --
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I have carried out your recommendation. Cheers to both of you!
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http://www.folkhalsan.fi/default.asp?path=28;32;6850;2231;9604
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Copyedited section 'Saint Lucy/Lucia' and removed copyedit tag
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in the banner shell. Please resolve this conflict if possible.
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This article has been given a rating which conflicts with the
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in the banner shell. Please resolve this conflict if possible.
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This article has been given a rating which conflicts with the
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Lussinatta, the Lussi Night, was marked in Sweden December 13
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http://ac-support.europe.umuc.edu/~jmatthew/naples/Lucy.html
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When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the
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The "2006" photo was only added to the article yesterday by
1710:. Most of those who celebrate it seem to agree on Lucia. --
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for additional information. I made the following changes:
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reference is about the christian devil, Venus and more.)
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I have just added archive links to one external link on
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It looks like blog is quoting this researched article:
1985:" the date of the birth of Christ was not yet decided.
1885:(article in Danish) view this event as a secular one (
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patient." Lussi - in English would have to rhyme with
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Christmas themed costumes in Swedish Lucia processions
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1948:"completely lost its appropriateness/significance".
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A fact from this article was featured on Knowledge's
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I think this might be considered original research.
1794:as Lucia, rather than the much less used Lucy. --
726:This article has not yet received a rating on the
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1969:" - there was no source for it, anyway. The "
1838:How does one pronounce "Lucia" and "Lussi"?
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30:This is the
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1632:Yngvadottir
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1452:—Preceding
1393:Richard asr
1379:Richard asr
1324:—Preceding
1283:Monodefuego
1277:—Preceding
1183:copy edited
213:On this day
159:free images
42:not a forum
2323:Categories
2277:Report bug
2009:Common_Era
1990:Further, "
1652:feast.. ?
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1529:Rwflammang
1428:Saint Lucy
2260:this tool
2253:this tool
2152:this tool
2145:this tool
1688:Hafspajen
1654:Hafspajen
1650:Norwegian
1628:Dbachmann
1613:Hafspajen
1563:The Welsh
1550:Hafspajen
1359:Sparviere
1345:Sparviere
362:Christian
208:Main Page
99:if needed
82:Be polite
32:talk page
2266:Cheers.—
2158:Cheers.—
2068:cbignore
2031:unsigned
1906:contribs
1894:unsigned
1855:douche a
1749:Gentgeen
1708:LuciatĂĄg
1646:Iselilja
1593:24.7.5.9
1542:Concur,
1454:unsigned
1326:unsigned
1291:contribs
1279:unsigned
1239:unsigned
1222:Untitled
1031:Holidays
1022:holidays
978:Holidays
67:get help
40:This is
38:article.
2190:my edit
2168::Online
2097:checked
2062:my edit
1877:Denmark
1567:Buzzard
1432:Siawase
1320:Lucifer
1139:on the
1058:on the
953:on the
912:Denmark
903:Denmark
859:B‑class
856:Denmark
831:on the
628:on the
523:on the
429:B‑class
401:on the
283:C-class
210:in the
165:WPÂ refs
153:scholar
2076:nobots
2001:always
1963:ADDED:
1840:Leegrc
1228:Salmon
804:Sweden
795:Sweden
751:Sweden
703:Norway
694:Norway
653:Norway
374:Saints
357:Saints
312:Saints
289:scale.
259:, and
137:Google
1979:after
1859:fussy
1667:Lucia
1582:: -->
1523:Photo
1510:Xwayj
180:JSTOR
141:books
95:Seek
2300:and
2101:true
2039:talk
2018:talk
2014:clsc
1954:clsc
1937:here
1902:talk
1898:Clsc
1867:talk
1861:. --
1844:talk
1818:talk
1800:talk
1775:talk
1753:talk
1731:talk
1716:talk
1702:Name
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