3357:"digital distribution" already inherently implies that the purchase of products are distributed digitally (downloaded). Meanwhile, Steam's DRM is an explicit feature of the platform which is not inherently implied by "digital distribution". Not all digital distribution platforms have it, and Steam (Valve) explicitly offers DRM to it's publishers as an option. This isn't really quite the same thing as Apple's closed garden. Apple had DRM has part of licensing deals with record companies, which it has slowly eliminated. It wasn't a platform feature so much as a contractual obligation. The use of DRM in the video game market also has far more focus and coverage these days, while music DRM is certainly not quite the same. --
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haven't been corrected in over 3 months since the tag was first added? I know
Knowledge (XXG) editing activity has gradually decreased from its peak years ago, but like, that's a long time for a tag to sit inactive especially on an article that receives relatively high traffic like the Steam article. I apologize for my editing behaviour re: the tag, but I just generally severely disagree with its inclusion when there don't appear to be any obvious flaws. People haven't pointed out anything. If there were sections or parts of the article that were pointed out that need some work, I'd be entirely up for making those changes. But so far nothing's been presented and it's frustrating. -
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which is a valid article but not relevant for someone that just wants to learn what steam is. Also, this page is listed as "Top‑importance" in
Internet culture, so it makes sense that the article (or it's history page) should be in depth, and not simply delete most of it because it is too long. The main issue with this approach is maintaining two similar articles and deciding what goes where although I don't see any other reasonable way and I don't think the current state with the excessive detail detail message is a good long term solution.
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for citations takes up more bytes than you think). Additionally, Steam has added a significant amount of new features since 2014. I see nothing in the article that genuinely warrants the tag existing, nor are there any sections that were specifically mentioned as needing to be trimmed. Oh and don't get me started on the length of the article of a notoriously controversial
American politician.
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documented. Or there are features that came and went that we probably cover too much. So the overall article needs to trim this fat, probably may need some better reorganization, and things along those lines that come about with any topic that has continued to evolve and receive coverage in reliable sources. I can't point to any one section because of that.
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I know it can be difficult to follow my writing and sometimes imprudent. I meant it is more a concept and not a feature like matchmaking and social networking, not that there has been no reception about it. I think if it pioneered the trend, it would be appropriate to word it that way. I have changed
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which is why it is so unwieldy. The "excessive amount of intricate detail" is mainly just the decades worth of facts about each feature, where we could just describe the feature generally here and have a separate page for those that want to know more (which I think is a complexity valid desire and is
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I'm not an expert in this subject area and have only briefly glanced at the article, but I'll try to take small step down that path. I notice that neither Steam
Greenlight nor Steam Direct have their own article, and neither are mentioned in the introduction, yet they have fairly significant coverage
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I don't see anything to trim because to me everything seems concise, with some sections being longer than others due to their depth or functionality / relevance to Steam as a platform and service. Maybe I'm oblivious to the sections that may need trimming, but if there were any issues, how come they
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There's an overall need to review the article and trim out some of the things that we go into a bit too much detail. WP articles are to summarize a topic to what the sources give, and unlike WWII where there are hundreds of books written on it, most of what we have on Steam are bits of info here and
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2. 'Users of Steam's storefront can also purchase games and other software as gifts for another Steam user. Before May 2017, users could purchase these gifts to be held in their profile's inventory until they opted to gift them. However, this feature enabled a gray market ' - everything besides the
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There's no deadline. Multiple maintainers of this article acknowledge that it requires some work. I'll add my support on that note as well. Please don't earn yourself a disruption block over a minor maintenance tag. If you don't personally see anything you can trim, you'd don't have to work on this
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The article does not go into too much detail. Stop re-adding the template without PROPER reasons that actually explain the problems with the article because the template has been removed by more than 3 editors now. I've read the article in full. There is nothing in the article that is irrelevant to
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So then what's the issue here? I don't see article coverage on every single Steam feature that exists on the platform and client. I am still being given zero examples of article sections that need to be trimmed, or what sections contain an "intriciate level of detail". A tag cannot be added without
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for example is even longer in length, but has less citations (with most of those being citations from physical media like books). And most of the bulk of the byte size for this article was artificially increased by users adding archive links to the various sources used in this article (wiki markup
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4. 'During mid-2011, Valve began to offer free-to-play games, such as Global Agenda, Later that year, Valve added the ability to trade in-game items and "unopened" game gifts between users. In May 2015, GameStop began selling Steam Wallet cards.' - This section in particular seem like it really
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there were zero given reasons as to how the article contains an intricate level of detail, nor has the tag ever been in place since the article entered GA status in 2014. What specific sections are on the longer side / contain an intricate level of detail? Because I personally do not see anything
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split it this way, the only way forward that I see is to simply delete a lot of the history, as each section itself looks notable so we can't just delete some sections and leave others fully intact. At that point we may as well have a history page instead for those that want to read the history,
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For example, for 3, it could just say "Steam lists user written reviews for it's games." 2 and 4. Could say 'valve offers free to play games on its store, with the ability to gift games to other users.' That combines 3 paragraphs ('Users of Steam's storefront', 'The Steam store also enables' and
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to explain their rationale, particularly when explicitly asked. Several editors here have offered vague generalities, but none have answered the quite reasonable question she asked at the top: Which sections or areas need work? Nor has anyone provided a specific example of something too detailed
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It's hard to take you seriously if you ask "what sources mention DRM as a notable feature". Multiple paragraphs of this article, with heavy sourcing, detail the role of DRM both in Steam's conception, its continued market presence, how it publishes games, and it's very reception. "Every gaming
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1. 'In
November 2007, Steam achievements were added In September 2008, Valve added support for Steam Cloud,' - history of steam cloud (with one out of place sentence in the beginning of the paragraph about achievements . I guess the achievements are synced to the cloud? Seems like a strange
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To explain the issue, the overall article has been built as Steam has developed - which is reasonable for starting and building an article on an evolving service. But that means me and other editors in the past may have added "fresh" content that nowadays is a minor footnote and need not be
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I have written a large percentage of this article and even I know it needs to be reworked and trimmed down. Now that we know where things have gone, there are parts that can be trimmed down or removed as unnecessary from a summary point of view. Others who have added the tag clearly agree.
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belongs in a history section. The main article should just say that free to play games are supported, if that. Are there any video game marketplaces or even software marketplaces that do not have free offers? Seems like a completely trivial point outside of a historical context.
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says "Every major gaming platform today relies on DRM, with companies like Valve, Epic Games, Microsoft, Sony and
Nintendo owning players' libraries in some form. In a digital-first ecosystem, it's just easier this way." Although I think there is a difference between
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Can you expound on this? Some of the paragraphs from the other sections look like they really should mainly be in the history section of this article anyway. When I said policy changes I also meant feature developments etc. by the way. Some
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I would have a problem. The history section is essential but short (nor does it need massive expansion). Moving things like policy changes into that makes no sense because that section nicely covers the history of Steam for its reason to
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In general, it seems to me that for a lot of these section you could summarize the current state of them in one or two short sentences. Looking at this article again to write this reply, I think this page is already
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3. 'In 2013, Steam began to accept player reviews of games. To prevent observed abuse of the review system by developers or other third-party agents, Valve modified the review system in
September 2016 - history of
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also don't mention DRM in the lead, but I don't follow the "contractual obligation" logic. By the way, I actually recently added the DRM part to the Epic Game Store lead as I saw it on the lead here.
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doesn't mention a DRM feature, this comparable service shouldn't like this. The reported "DRM" thing mentioned is the "Custom
Executable Generation" technology of the anti-piracy Steamworks product.
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7. Games discovery changes - This seems like a clear history section to me. Nobody reading this section would read it as anything other than within a historical context
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I can certainly sympathize with her frustration as well, but on the other hand I don't agree the answer she was given is incorrect: as Masem indicated, there was an
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6. Steam
Greenlight - discontinued so this is clearly a history section, although it is tied to Steam Direct which still exist so I can see arguments either way.
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I am primarily arguing about wording, the "feature" would be the custom executable generation. What sources mention DRM as a notable feature of Steam?
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there. We can keep a good amount of that , but there's clearly things we don't need to focus on too much now that we didn't know in the past.
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Moving things like policy changes into that makes no sense because that section nicely covers the history of Steam for its reason to exist.
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Why are we using the desktop app icon as the infobox logo? It seems to have been edit warred over a little bit and then finally changed in
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platform today relies on" is a red herring, because Steam was the first of its kind, and essentially pioneered the current day trend. --
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in
December 2015 without an edit summary or any talk page discussion as far as I can tell. If you look at places like the Steam homepage
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The lead says "video game digital distribution service", which redirects to aforementioned article. Digital distribution could refer to
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5. The "Privacy, security and abuse" is mostly a history, although I can also see it being relevant enough to stay on the main page
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There is a lot of noise in the other sections that we should strive to remove first before trying to split off the article.
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Steam or its history and its not excessively detailed, Steam just has a lot of components that require a longer article. -
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that might be considered as intricate, nor are there really any sections that can be separated from the article itself. -
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It's not an issue of how many citations a page has, nor markup - WWII is in fact shorter in terms of readable prose. See
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information about what needs fixing rather than bickering over consensus would have been a much more constructive path.
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Okay, but that doesn't answer my questions. I have another question: Why does the length of the prose matter?
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At the time of the article's promotion in 2014, it was 5000 words of readable prose. It is now triple that.
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on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion.
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until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion.
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until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion.
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until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion.
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until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion.
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for that content in the latter page, and it must not be deleted as long as the latter page exists.
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There's no deadline. I plan to get to it when I get a chance but I haven't had a chance.
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works here, i.e. consumers retrieve purchased games by download. Just as the lead for
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I just genuinely disagree with the tag being in place when no reasoning was given. -
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The following references may be useful when improving this article in the future:
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the wording in a way that I hope is understandable, please adjust if necessary.
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is there page on steam beta update that tell what new in current steam beta?
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need to review and rework the article. There wasn't a single section that
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This was inappropriate of me to say. I genuinely apologize for this. -
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to FA; Tag all articles you find with {{WikiProject Internet culture}}
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Knowledge (XXG):Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 October 26#.ncf
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need editing, so there was no satisfying answer on which ones
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While I don't condone any edit warring, I sympathize with
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Kotaku confirmed release date of Steam on 18th anniversary
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in the body. So that might be a potential place to trim.
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https://store.steampowered.com/oldnews/?feed=steam_blog
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grounds or reasoning to add it in the first place. -
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Knowledge (XXG) level-5 vital articles in Technology
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has now gone in to start the condensing). Providing
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Famicom_Disk_System#Disk_Writer_and_Disk_Fax_kiosks
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359:. If you can improve it further,
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2351:19 years of Steam from PC Gamer
2294:This article has been rated as
2169:This article has been rated as
1212:This article has been rated as
1087:This article has been rated as
845:This article has been rated as
645:This article has been rated as
3630:WikiProject Microsoft articles
2571:01:49, 23 September 2021 (UTC)
2551:File:Steam 2016 logo black.svg
2547:File:Steam gray-brown logo.svg
2152:Template:WikiProject Microsoft
1960:Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare
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3151:13:14, 4 September 2023 (UTC)
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3059:15:16, 2 September 2023 (UTC)
3042:15:05, 2 September 2023 (UTC)
3019:14:49, 2 September 2023 (UTC)
3000:13:47, 2 September 2023 (UTC)
2979:13:36, 2 September 2023 (UTC)
2961:03:32, 2 September 2023 (UTC)
2537:, the bottom of Valve's site
2268:and see a list of open tasks.
2194:WikiProject Microsoft Windows
2191:This article is supported by
2143:and see a list of open tasks.
1923:
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1517:List of generation IX Pokémon
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1109:This article is supported by
1070:Template:WikiProject Software
1061:and see a list of open tasks.
819:and see a list of open tasks.
619:and see a list of open tasks.
148:Put new text under old text.
3590:GA-Class video game articles
3530:Mid-importance apps articles
3485:Old requests for peer review
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2588:"Grid Cache File" listed at
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3570:GA-Class Computing articles
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1920:No did you know nominations
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2277:Template:WikiProject Linux
2175:project's importance scale
1924:Reviews and reassessments
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748:Category:Mobile game stubs
662:Contribute to the project:
447:Featured article candidate
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3193:History of Steam (sevice)
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2503:12:46, 7 July 2021 (UTC)
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1778:The King of Fighters '99
1688:Pokémon Sword and Shield
1602:Puff-puff (onomatopoeia)
1529:Mario Party: The Top 100
710:Good article nominations
229:Find video game sources:
3635:GA-Class Linux articles
3490:GA-Class vital articles
3213:No objections from me.
2776:and has thus listed it
2733:and has thus listed it
2690:and has thus listed it
2647:and has thus listed it
2604:and has thus listed it
1972:A Space for the Unbound
1868:The Great Giana Sisters
1486:Minecraft – Volume Beta
1246:Video games WikiProject
1231:Video games WikiProject
1175:WikiProject Video games
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3375:Bulletin Board Systems
2549:or black and white at
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2003:Articles that need...
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558:on Knowledge (XXG)'s
551:level-5 vital article
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206:Neutral point of view
2331:Security and Trading
1640:Shin Megami Tensei V
1502:No major discussions
1050:WikiProject Software
717:Application software
428:Good article nominee
211:No original research
100:. Its contents were
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459:June 14, 2014
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158:Learn to edit
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1395:Ryo Sakazaki
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734:good article
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566:WikiProjects
549:
501:this version
478:Good article
477:
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452:Not promoted
445:
440:June 4, 2014
426:
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367:
365:
361:please do so
349:
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292:WP reference
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125:This is the
97:
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26:
2984:Then do it.
2563:DemonDays64
2047:screenshots
1764:Async Corp.
1588:Donkey Kong
1466:Screen Rant
1389:participant
1244:Summary of
1233:open tasks:
1229:Summary of
1189:Video games
1180:video games
1136:Video games
466:Peer review
409:Peer review
266:free images
137:not a forum
110:its history
57:its history
3469:Categories
3397:Xbox (app)
3215:Nikkimaria
3189:Nikkimaria
3143:Nikkimaria
3099:actionable
3095:Nikkimaria
2907:Nikkimaria
2893:Nikkimaria
2847:Nikkimaria
2833:Nikkimaria
2009:assessment
1854:River Raid
1541:The Sims 4
1490:discussion
1480:discussion
1470:discussion
1440:Vector TDx
1330:Butterfree
1248:open tasks
355:under the
242:newspapers
81:Steam Chat
3253:examples:
2578:on reply)
2499:IceWelder
2492:There is
2428:Archive 9
2423:Archive 8
2418:Archive 7
2411:Archive 6
2406:Archive 5
2401:Archive 4
2394:Archive 3
2389:Archive 2
2384:Archive 1
2146:Microsoft
2137:Microsoft
2103:Microsoft
2041:cover art
2035:infoboxes
1712:Ether One
1650:Justin Yu
1553:Smash Hit
1026:Computing
983:See also
725:Instagram
554:is rated
515:this edit
310:WPVG/Talk
194:if needed
177:Be polite
127:talk page
3393:and DRM.
3386:Engadget
3257:opening.
2794:Contribs
2751:Contribs
2708:Contribs
2665:Contribs
2622:Contribs
2574:(please
2372:Archives
2065:creation
1452:relisted
1433:relisted
1317:Dokibird
1064:Software
1055:software
1021:Software
721:Facebook
715:Improve
556:GA-class
471:Reviewed
414:Reviewed
369:reassess
162:get help
135:This is
133:article.
86:deletion
33:deletion
3265:reviews
3131:overall
2559:is here
2456:31 days
2298:on the
2173:on the
2108:Windows
2070:merging
2049:(8,818)
2029:cleanup
1882:Pikachu
1356:Neo Geo
1278:vg talk
1268:history
1216:on the
1091:on the
976:YouTube
876:history
849:on the
676:history
649:on the
519:history
392:Process
254:scholar
28:SteamVR
3446:IgelRM
3439:Ferret
3424:ferret
3409:IgelRM
3359:ferret
3344:IgelRM
3330:Ferret
3324:WP:BRD
3294:If we
3228:exist.
3185:Ferret
3135:didn't
3086:Evelyn
3025:Ferret
3011:ferret
2053:photos
1984:Tetris
1343:Bidoof
1283:alerts
923:Expand
736:status
562:scale.
433:Listed
395:Result
102:merged
49:merged
3296:don't
3248:: -->
3177:Masem
2889:WP:SS
2885:WP:AS
2809:Masem
2271:Linux
2262:Linux
2218:Linux
2061:(190)
2043:(249)
1902:start
1888:start
1874:start
1860:start
1836:start
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1808:start
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1666:start
1630:Birdo
1622:start
1608:start
1594:start
1288:purge
1273:shell
1258:watch
967:Other
954:Stubs
941:Photo
886:purge
881:watch
742:Stubs
686:purge
681:watch
543:This
513:with
304:VG/RL
298:VG/RS
260:JSTOR
248:books
190:Seek
104:into
98:merge
51:into
45:merge
3450:talk
3428:talk
3413:talk
3399:and
3363:talk
3348:talk
3305:talk
3235:asem
3219:talk
3201:talk
3160:asem
3147:talk
3114:Sdkb
3108:{{u|
3050:asem
3015:talk
2970:asem
2933:asem
2897:talk
2887:and
2837:talk
2688:.ncf
2645:.gcf
2576:ping
2567:talk
2509:Logo
2494:this
2483:talk
2055:(66)
2037:(21)
1298:AfDs
1263:edit
1253:view
1208:High
961:here
934:here
930:here
871:edit
723:and
671:edit
622:Apps
613:apps
585:Apps
389:Date
236:news
179:and
114:here
61:here
3139:did
2290:Mid
2165:Mid
2031:(8)
2025:(0)
2015:) (
1990:rev
1977:rev
1965:nom
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1941:nom
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1083:Mid
932:or
841:Top
727:to
641:Mid
503:of
285:NYT
278:TWL
88:.
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2106::
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