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are only two references, both of which are livejournal communities! The assertions about "steampunk music" are equally speculative. Has Tom Waits ever discussed steampunk? Is he influenced by it? Is he even aware of it? Once again, we have no answer. Furthermore, this secton has been a target for all sorts of speculative edits---the steampunk music list was, until just recently, much longer---with anonymous users putting their favorite band or fashion tendency in there. And why not, since there is no apparent standard for this ersatz subculture. Unreferenced, speculative, and a target for all manner of nonsense---I'd say that's the trifecta. Delete it. ---
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appreciate as a parallel to
Steampunk tales but I don't think they are Steampunk enough to warrant a mention here (as this is not intended to be completest and contain everything that might possibly be Steampunk) but the mention in the list of Steampunk works is not as out there as some of the additions (where people seem to equate recent fiction with a Victorian setting as being Steampunk) and a mention of Shadow in the North would seem fitting. (
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porkshanks (Molly
Friedrich), Vernian Process, Abney Park, the crew of the H.M.S. Chronabelle, contributors to Steampunk Magazine, and Jake of All Trades. Do you believe this could be a valid portion of the article? Would you include anyone else? I can cite the validity of their use in the article by linking to interviews, group websites, etc, if you would like.
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The artist group
Kinetic Steam Works created a Steampunk Tree House for Burningman 2007, and also brought a working steam engine to the event in 2006 and 2007. In May-June 2008, multimedia artist and sculptor Paul St George exhibited outdoor interactive video installations linking London and New York
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The paralels to
British situations is the essence of Steam Trek in that; Victoria is still on the throne, Britain is in an Empire Building mode (in the solar system instead of on Earth), The prejudice against non-caucations is still present but in the form of anti-alien sentiment, Britain traditional
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All the trappings of steampunk technology and setting are present, for example; Medical technology includes the use of formalin lamps, cerebral phrenology, orgone injections, ect., Engineering technology includes firemen and stokers feeding dilythium coal into a furnace / boiler that powers the ship.
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I've deleted the link you added to the "External links" of the
Steampunk entry, for Steam Trek is not related to steampunk on the whole, neither as a genre nor as a subculture. Unless you can provide a credible reason why a reference to Steam Trek ought to be included while links to regular steampunk
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is tricky - is it used elsewhere on other articles? I'd largely use it for a guide to check if there are any missing games but you'd need to check if the relevant article makes it clear it is
Steampunk as it is unclear what their inclusion criteria is - is the Steampunk a minor/passing element in the
1326:
There are now 3 articles externally linked (Boston Globe, NYTs, Phoenix), all saying identical things, interviewing the same people, and using similar/same pictures. Do we need all 3? Should we just pick the best? Boston Globe is already referenced twice. Maybe using one of the others as a reference
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Steam Trek is a literary project focusing on an alternate history wherein the technological extrapolation of steam technology has penetrated into a well known science fiction genre. Steam power and mechanics are the basis for the technology and 19th century
Victorian England provides the background,
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Quite. That is fine, I simply thought that it could potentially be useful for those who wanted examples of the fashion/gadget/writing style, and these were the groups/individuals who came to mind. I feel as though we should mention
Steampunk Magazine SOMEWHERE in the article, though. Also, Yobmod, I
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Minor uses of steam technology do not steampunk make. I ironed my shirt this morning with a steam iron, but my biogrophy would not be steampunk. Anyway, opinions are not important, only verification from reliable sources. (The deleted sentence was fact tagged, then deleted by a different user, which
654:
I'm removing the "increasingly steampunk" claim about
Discworld as inaccurate. Discworld is high fantasy which happens to include various Flintstonesesque examples of anachronistic technology, normally implemented in some whimsical and improbable way. We need to avoid overreaching in our definition.
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I would certainly argue that Steam Trek is very much a steampunk themed game. The website's page may not include information specifically about the steampunk genre, but the
Victorian inspired Star trek pastiche is very much along the same lines as Space 1889. I would argue for the re-instatement of
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I think your hesitancy to accept Steam Trek as steampunk is that Steam Trek pushes far beyond the 20 to 30 years of divergent history as is present in most writings and extrapolates such historic alteration to 150 years or more. I do not think this distinction between Steam Trek and other steampunk
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The Steam Gun wasn't that Steampunk (I was a little disappointed really) and the use of balloons and zeppelins seems in keeping with the setting (as is the use of barges in HDM). There are certainly elements of the fantastical Victorian literature in both those series which a fan of Steampunk would
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Steampunk is not merely the anachronistic introduction of technology to eras in which it doesn't belong. It's a specific combination of Industrial Revolution-era design and setting together with contemporary or future levels of effective technology. There's some leeway to change the setting, but it
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I think you'd need to apply notability to mentions of anyone or it could cause massive bloat as people add their friends, etc. I'd go with Ottens on this - both of those two gentlemen have been the subject of articles about there work, which are mentioned in the relevant section and it wouldn't be
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I think this entire section is problematic enough that it should be cut altogether. Most of its content is speculative---"steampunk fashion" is a great case in point: is this how steampunk fans dress? or is it how steampunk writers dress? or is it how people dress in steampunk novels?---and there
1252:
The Steampunk entry is filled with examples of various media which exemplify the particular characteristics of Steampunk(ery). Why do you not think Steam Trek is an example of Steampunk. That question has never been answered in any talk section or discussion post. All that was ever said is āSteam
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From looking at it, i would say it doesn't belong here. If the website is notable enough, it should have it's own wiki page, and the external link should go there. If it is not notable enough for that, it seems to have too narrow a focus to deserve an external link, which are there to help people
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Dear Sir, my reluctance to accept a link to Steam Trek on the entry about Steampunk is by no means inspired by an aversion to Steam Trek in any way. Quite to the contrary, I'm quite fond of Steam Trek, but as I pointed out, it is not related to steampunk on the whole. Steam Trek is an example of
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Vernian Process, and Abney Park have both stated that they create music with a "Steampunk" influence. VP, makes free downloadable music that is intended as Steampunk listening music. He was the first musician to create music strictly for a Steampunk setting. His wiki entry was deleted because it
1074:
Unless there is something more to say about these games in relation to steampunk as a whole, i see no reason for them to be here, and not simply in the List of... article. Also they were uncited, as are most the "representative examples" in the whole article. Adding more does not increase the
955:
I would like to add a sub-section to "Steampunk as a subculture" that notes particularly active groups/individuals who are known by and large by those involved in the community. People who immediately come to mind for me are: Jake von Slatt, Datamancer, the Outlanders (Crew of the Amaranth),
794:
how about a compromice? i notice that in the shadow of the north there seems to be a steam gun features heavily in the plot... why do we not put something like phillip pullman books contain elements of steampunk.... citing the steam cannon, hdm's zeaplins and ballons as examples?
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I went ahead and removed any information that we won't be able to cite (mostly due to it being info that only followers of the genre would know of). As much as it pains me to remove some things that I know for a fact are true. if I can't prove it, then it really doesn't belong in here.
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I would also like to know why my repeated undoing of the deletion of Steam Trek is considered vandalism but the repeated deletion of the reference is not? I am not that familiar with the way Knowledge (XXG) is edited but this has not been a very congenial experience so far.
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I dispute that Shelley was an influence - Frankenstein was written many years before steam engines were commercially available (according to wikipedia). Hence a specific citation is needed to back it up. The notes section is useless - i wouldn't even know which book to look
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If that is true, there should be references which can be easily added that will back up the assertion. Without references, it all looks speculative. Saying, though, that the Vernian Process article was deleted as nonnotable does not make a good case for you here.
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Is the Pullman trilogy steampunk or not? Frankly, I do not think so. To be steampunk, a book, story, movie, etc., has to have more than just a few steam gadgets here and there, it has to be a world that revolves around steam power. This is why so many
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This issue, however, ought to be discussed on the Steampunk Talkpage if you remain to insist that a link to Steam Trek is proper. Until the matter is resolved, refrain from constantly adding your link, or I will report your conduct as vandalism. Ottens
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That is what should be done - we can't possibly include links to specific products as that just leads to link bloat. I do think it should be on the list of steampunk works and I'd have thought proving notability should be straightforward
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article calls it a "Victorian-looking contraption" so I recommend that one as a citation. I do think the Telectroscope notable enough to be included, perhaps with a reference to the meet-up which several steampunk enthusiasts have
753:, etc.---that people have tried to add do not fit. A fantasy or sci-fi story with a steam gadget here or there will not do, anymore than a run-of-the-mill sci-fi story with computer networks could be considered cyberpunk. The
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wasn't deemed notable, but within the Steampunk community, his work is rather well known. The same thing applies to Abney Park, they have a whole visual, and lyrical Steampunk style, and are probably more well known than VP.
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Could we add a message to the External links section, invisible to regular readers but visible when editing the section, warning not to include links to websites which aren't relevant to steampunk on the whole?
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Though the content of these three articles is indeed pretty similar, I'm quite in favor of keeping external links to them. Perhaps adding a category of "Coverage in the media" to the External links section?
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The problem i see is the lack of notability. A steam punk entusiast being famous amoungst a very small group of other enthusiast is not notable imo, and citation to their own web-sites would only show this.
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425:, etc.) that do not have anything to do with dieselpunk. Some mention could, and should, be made that dieselpunk is the next step after steampunk, but this section strays far from the matter at hand. ---
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as Medieval Steampunk) as it might be pushing the envelope and this entry isn't supposed to be all inclusive (that is what the list is for after allĀ ;) ). I would recommend starting the entry though. (
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It is very recent, so i think needs a cite before it is notable enough for the article, or proof it is steampunk. There are lots of cites in its own article, but i don't know which should be used here
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devices. The same author has done articles on "bronzepunk" (advanced technology in Ancient Greece, what I think this article calls "sandalpunk") and "ironpunk" (advanced waterpower in Imperial Rome).
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Oh, it is certainly steampunk, and should be listed as such. It just doesn't deserve to be an external link, any more than the other 100's of individual steampunk works. It is just one minor example.
1071:" series of computer RPGs also includes some steampunk influence. The ruins of the lost Dwemer race contain many steam based objects, including steam powered machinery and steam powered automata."
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The military command structure is copied lock, stock and barrel from late 1800 British traditions including piping onboard, the bell system of time keeping and the look and feel of uniforms.
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1181:, I don't believe it deserved a link here. It's not related to steampunk on the whole, neither as a genre nor as a subculture. It might be notable enough to include it in the
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People like Von Slatt and "Datamancer" may be worth noting under "Steampunk as an object style". Other than that, I fail to see the notability of the persons you've mentioned.
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I am not in favor, generally speaking, of deleting content that can be referenced. But, if references, or notable references cannot be found, the whole lot will have to go. ---
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oki. think it is not a problem now, as long as the external links don't get any longer. (Although it seems to 90% of the edits are people trying to make it into a linkfarm!)
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Trek is not related to steampunk on the wholeā with no explanation or rationalization as to why or what elements do not make Steam Trek fit to be a proper example.
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In the future, please refrain from reverting edits without explanation. Address editing conflicts on a page's talk page. Ottens (talk) 15:29, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
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game or are they using it to include games with a late 19thC/Victorian setting? So check the games on the list against existing criteria for inclusion here. (
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Your argument that Steam Trek is not related to steampunk on the whole seems to be contrary to the primary definition of steampunk listed in the entry.
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enemies are still present in new forms (German = Klinkon, French = Ferenchi, Russians = Romlians, Orientals = Borj, Irish Fennians = OāRyans, etc.)
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This article has always had scope problems. The best way to deal with it might be to punt the section to its own stub article and link to it.
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steampunk as a literary genre, but it provides no information about the genre. Therefore, no "External link" to it should be included.
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Which Bioshock isn't. (At least not in the sense relevant to steampunk; as to this day we use steam to power electrical generators).
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That's a good point. There are a number of interviews with VP floating around the net. But none of them are with major publications.
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Although I am not 100% sure what everybody agrees is steampunk (as I have written elsewhere), I have provided a phrase or two about
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Also the new link to the list of games. Can this website be used as a reference, and the games listed there be transfered to the
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It doesn't need to have steam in order to be steampunk. It needs to be from the era in which steam-power was widely prevalent. --
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In May-June 2008, the artist Paul St George created a steampunk-themed art installation in London and New York City called the "
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Perhaps the fictional devices in the HP universe fit this? Most are a combination of magic and fire/clockwork/creatures/etc.
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is considered pretty steampunk nonetheless. I'm not familiar with Pullman's novels, nor have I seen the film yet, though.
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Might I also recommend a slight rewording for this particular information to be more in line with the text of the section:
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lol yeah, i was just thinkning about some aspects of the decor and the way the big daddies look and move. rentachimp
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I totally agree, RJ. WTF is steampunk muzik anyway, and who decides? I gonna get rid of the whole lot, and then what?
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For notability in the real world, citations are needed from third-party sources, rather than within fan circles.
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element in steampunk is often forgotten, or conveniently left out, when considering what fits and what does not.
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That link has been removed. It might make sense adding into the external links on the list page. Whether it is a
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removed the section because I thought that I should ask if anyone else supported it before I did any editing.Ā :)
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Pullman has nothing to do with Steampunk, and a mention of Shadow in the North would be stretching it too far. --
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Someone removed my citations needed tags and didn't bother to comment , let alone bother to cite the sentence.
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I think that would be a very good idea, and it should include an internal link to the relevant WP:EL page. ---
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I added a sentence about Pagliassotti's Clockwork as an example of new works developing the steampunk theme.
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to do with steampunk. The section as it is currently written also strays off into all sorts of examples (
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Steampunk enthusiasts from both cities organized a trans-atlantic wave on June 7th, briefly prior to
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Twain is mentioned in influences, with ref. To mention a specific work, we need a more specific cite.
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and other steampunk styles. An early example of the steampunk style in video games can be found in
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I restored that link without checking the talk page first, sorry for that. I'll put it up on the
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I noticed this (Steam Trek)external link being added and removed, with no-one discussing it here.
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Actually, it's not in this article. I think it is in biopunk. Should it be? I've never played
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page?If the site is respectable for an external link, it should be ok for a reference, yes?
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Good call. I reckon it has steampunk elememts - maybe it's retro-bio punk or something
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to build avant-garde military inventions (the tank, the hangglider, etc) in around
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The article leaves out what might well be the first steampunk story: Mark Twain's
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under the cover. If a majority thinks it doesn't belong, by all means remove it.
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I like that idea. Why, though, is there not a dieselpunk article already? ---
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isn't quite that open-ended. I notice that this has been stated on the
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The xbox360 & PC shooter set in an alternative 1950's dystopia.
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618:'s article for well over a year; I'm going to remove that as well.
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No. No way. Absolutely not. Harry Potter is not steampunk. ---
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Hence i support removing the section (which wasn't done by me).
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1487:. Certainly not steampunk though. For one, there's no steam!
1048:"Many of the settings and puzzles in the classic game series
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in order to create an invincible army to embark upon a new
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should be listed here. It has many steampunk elements. --
678:! That's a good one. Yeah, I can see it coming... ---
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1067:, which was released in 1985. The world of Nirn from "
1098:learn more about the overall subject of steampunk.
411:Why is this section even in this article? It has
1311:article? It is already refered to in the Notes.
1262:http://en.wikipedia.org/User_talk:Stephen_Vossler
1207:fansites are not, the link must not be included.
1626:City in a Victorian era-styled "telectroscope".
765:elements, but, of course, it lacks the steam.
211:As I said on the list talk page it sounds like
1027:The magazine is mentioned - in the see also. (
1233:stories is gounds to exclude it from mention
700:Been done! There wasan article in the online
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1307:Ought there to be an "External Link" to the
151:(Basically, the story is as follows: In the
1221:settings, props and character motivations.
1177:page where it seems to fit better. As for
771:may have some steam elements, but punk? ---
596:A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court
951:Notable Members of the Steampunk Community
655:(I can see someone reaching to start the
1483:, perhaps, but I think it's considered
44:Do not edit the contents of this page.
1303:External LinksĀ : Boston Globe article
714:on "stonepunk", with a full range of
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118:Does "General Leonardo" Belong Here?
1024:outrageous to mention them by name.
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903:Category:Steampunk musical groups
710:being the origin of "clockpunk")
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1090:Steam Trek & External links
913:You are encouraged to join the
177:have the upper echelons of the
908:deletion, merging, or renaming
113:16:49, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
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1515:18:25, 10 November 2008 (UTC)
873:is how things should be done)
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163:In the Service of the Vatican
1582:I moved the following here:
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231:"Steampunk as a subculture"
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144:can be seen by clicking on
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103:Removed non-cited sections
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1659:sounds good, i've readded
1044:Removing recent additions
921:Categories for Discussion
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1183:List of steampunk works
1175:List of steampunk works
1132:List of steampunk works
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906:has been nominated for
161:(three albums planned;
1422:Bioshock is steampunk?
42:of past discussions.
590:A Connecticut Yankee
146:the magnifying glass
169:published so far),
1400:RepublicanJacobite
855:The Golden Compass
775:RepublicanJacobite
768:His Dark Materials
738:His Dark Materials
682:RepublicanJacobite
659:article already.)
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466:RepublicanJacobite
429:RepublicanJacobite
407:Dieselpunk (again)
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1529:CaptainAmaranth
1424:
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1275:Brother William
1249:From S Vossler
1151:reliable source
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897:
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217:Conrad Stargard
140:links, natch).
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1631:White Mischief
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1481:Retro-futurism
1423:
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1416:
1407:The'FortyFive'
1403:
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394:The'FortyFive'
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370:172.166.138.11
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343:The'FortyFive'
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307:The'FortyFive'
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197:and reconquer
193:to invade the
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18:Talk:Steampunk
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1608:This NY Times
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1587:telectroscope
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1578:Telectroscope
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600:Bill Levinson
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175:Dan Greenberg
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153:graphic novel
149:
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136:(without the
135:
134:Dan Greenberg
131:
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1467:82.14.198.55
1464:
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1309:Boston Globe
1308:
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1287:
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900:The related
899:
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779:
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751:Harry Potter
750:
746:
743:
736:
715:
711:
707:
701:
686:
675:
674:Ha ha ha!!
653:
595:
593:
574:
545:
533:Great work,
519:Excellence.
470:
433:
420:
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391:
367:
364:Hary Potter?
340:
304:
244:
234:
156:
150:
123:
121:
106:
75:
43:
37:
1428:āPreceding
1203:From Otten
1064:The Eidolon
1056:Jules Verne
895:CfD notice.
716:Flintstones
320:63.82.98.51
282:63.82.98.51
276:āPreceding
36:This is an
1565:Tylerdmace
1548:Rentachimp
1507:Tylerdmace
1434:Rentachimp
1332:But which?
1179:Steam Trek
1060:LucasArts'
916:discussion
706:magazine (
503:Dieselpunk
171:Erik Svane
142:An excerpt
130:Erik Svane
95:ArchiveĀ 10
1010:Anonymist
958:Anonymist
928:Citations
852:The film
832:MahaPanta
745:things---
720:Daibhid C
676:Flintpunk
657:flintpunk
577:Mrpearcee
422:Dark City
213:clockpunk
199:Jerusalem
195:Holy Land
87:ArchiveĀ 6
82:ArchiveĀ 5
76:ArchiveĀ 4
70:ArchiveĀ 3
65:ArchiveĀ 2
60:ArchiveĀ 1
1611:planned?
1561:Bioshock
1442:contribs
1430:unsigned
1185:though.
1075:quality.
797:Dr noire
278:unsigned
203:Asteriks
181:forcing
1485:biopunk
1156:Emperor
1116:Emperor
1029:Emperor
923:page.
919:on the
813:Emperor
712:Pyramid
413:nothing
261:Hank001
221:Emperor
191:Crusade
179:Vatican
155:series
39:archive
1661:Yobmod
1639:Ottens
1594:Yobmod
1489:Ottens
1453:Yobmod
1384:Ottens
1363:Yobmod
1349:Ottens
1334:Yobmod
1313:Ottens
1290:Yobmod
1187:Ottens
1136:Yobmod
1100:Yobmod
1077:Yobmod
994:Ottens
979:Yobmod
938:Yobmod
875:Yobmod
860:Ottens
759:Brazil
747:Brazil
634:Yobmod
535:Ottens
507:Ottens
484:There
138:Amazon
110:FACT50
936:in.--
708:GURPS
703:GURPS
616:novel
537:. ---
16:<
1665:talk
1643:talk
1598:talk
1569:talk
1552:talk
1533:talk
1511:talk
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1471:talk
1457:talk
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1388:talk
1367:talk
1353:talk
1338:talk
1317:talk
1294:talk
1279:talk
1273:. ~
1191:talk
1160:talk
1140:talk
1120:talk
1104:talk
1081:talk
1051:Myst
1033:talk
1014:talk
998:talk
983:talk
962:talk
942:talk
879:talk
864:talk
836:talk
817:talk
801:talk
763:punk
755:punk
724:talk
665:talk
638:talk
624:talk
604:talk
581:talk
525:talk
511:talk
494:talk
454:talk
374:talk
324:talk
286:talk
265:talk
201:.)
187:1480
173:and
165:and
132:and
1633:'s
1589:."
486:was
296:---
128:by
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91:ā
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50:.
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