475:(pending further evidence): The question is what percentage of those 30 views per month are people looking for the article about the footballer instead of the one about the singer. That is something we don't know. What we do know is that the article about the singer gets about 500 times as many page views as the one about the footballer, and that "Steven Morrissey" is the actual name of both people. The footballer (with an article that only gets about 6 page views per day and does not describe any awards or exceptional accomplishments or personal notoriety) doesn't seem that highly notable. Also, a web search for "Steven Morrissey" yields results that are heavily dominated by the singer, and nothing at all about the footballer in page-after-page of search results (except Knowledge itself, and not on the first page). —
888:. After consideration, while the Morrissey is overwhelmingly introduced mononymously, it is very well known that he is "Steven Morrissey", it is not unreasonable for someone to think they could him covered by a biography titled "Steven Morrissey", and for many Morrissey-interested readers, the footballer is completely obscure to them, and them downloading the footballer's page would be too astonishing. Also not e that the suffix "(footballer)" adds considerable improvement to the recognisability for the
490:
the singer, so we can assume the proportions landing on the redirect also weigh heavily toward the singer. However, in absolute terms the numbers are so low that we can afford to put both articles at their best possible titles, in my opinion. Of course, a hatnote on the footballer would be appropriate. Another consideration is that if the article is not moved we should technically add a {{redirect}} hatnote to
119:
95:
64:
181:
250:
229:
260:
193:
129:
550:
I agree that the disadvantage of a move would be some readers (fewer than one per day, or 0.033%) looking for the singer would need to click on a hatnote on the footballer. The advantage would be the footballer would be at his real name without artificial disambiguation and the almost useless hatnote
734:
It's not unusual for all of the uses of an ambiguous term to not be known to the public in general. If likely ASTONISHment by searchers of the other uses was a reason to not put a primary topic at a basename, we could only put widely recognized topics with ambiguous names at base names. But that has
489:
We can safely assume that close to 100% of the 30 views per month were looking for the singer, for two reasons. First, there were a half dozen wikilinks to the redirect until I changed them (that should also lower the number of views a little). Second, as you say, 500 times as many people look for
764:
2nd sentence disagree. Astonishment must be considered, but hte astonishment risk may be small and the not quite universally know topic can quite reasonably be put at the basename, certainly if for all other topics, the readers for that topi cwould understand that their topic is a niche
524:, and we should send people to the article about the singer (where there should be a hatnote about where to go if looking for someone else). Why send people to an article about the footballer if most of them are looking for the singer? The fact that there were a half dozen Wikilinks to
824:'s point -- "Neither is known to the audience of the other" -- to this decision. No policy or guideline even suggests we consider such a factor, explicitly or implicitly, as far as I know. Given that essentially no one refers to the singer by this name (the dearth of
694:. If the Jamaican footballer was a major player on the international scene, the choice would be easy. However, since he is not, and the singer is not known to the public by the full name "Steven Morrissey", I would
954:
211:
949:
739:
to the other uses of the term. If one meets the criteria, then it's the primary topic, even if it's relatively obscure in general (as long as the other uses are even more obscure). --
43:
206:
105:
631:
per
Station1, it does seem a bit odd to give the PT to a different topic when the singer who's full name gets 500x the views. I have added a hatnote as suggested.
380:
959:
939:
48:
31:) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or
974:
316:
306:
964:
147:
23:
854:- keep as is. The singer is vastly more of a primary topic than the footballer and, as already noted, his name actually is Steven Morrissey. —
979:
944:
969:
151:
351:
Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a
711:
282:
831:), the probability that anyone would be looking for the singer with this name is practically nil. That's very relevant to determining
530:
that were intended to link to the singer is further evidence that people are expecting the singer (not the footballer) to be found at
155:
364:. Reasonable policy-based arguments have been put forward on both sides, but on balance they don't tip away from the current setup.
146:, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Knowledge's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to
768:
3rd sentence. Sorry, you are not a reliable source for practices at
Knowledge, you have a highly skewed and blinkered view. --
142:
100:
273:
234:
892:
Category listing entries, hovertext, urls, and other downstream uses. The proposal is bad for readers of both articles. --
889:
389:
75:
265:
569:
The percentage of readers looking for the singer is irrelevant. What matters is the percentage of readers looking at
911:
342:
707:
674:
640:
617:
458:, most of which came from a few wikilinks that I've just fixed, so it isn't really needed for that purpose.
32:
63:
836:
832:
796:
515:
409:
369:
835:
for this name. Searching for the footballer with this name, on the other hand, is highly likely. I think
921:
656:
586:
541:
480:
352:
81:
843:
743:
735:
never been the practice on WP. Primary topic is determined by looking at likelihood of being sought
278:
42:. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to
897:
805:
792:
773:
725:
281:
on
Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
703:
667:
633:
610:
560:
499:
463:
46:.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see
876:
859:
581:
are looking for the singer, those people shouldn't be sent to an article about a footballer. —
404:
365:
825:
699:
652:
582:
537:
476:
448:
432:
134:
901:
880:
863:
846:
812:
777:
746:
729:
715:
680:
660:
646:
623:
590:
564:
545:
503:
484:
467:
437:
373:
840:
740:
39:
665:
Because
Station1 has given some good arguments, however I'm leaning towards weak oppose.
893:
821:
800:
769:
721:
933:
651:
Then why are you saying you're unsure instead of continuing to oppose the proposal? —
556:
495:
459:
198:
872:
855:
829:
456:
839:
is clear here, and I see no policy/guideline based reason to oppose this move. --
423:
180:
118:
94:
920:
Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a
255:
188:
124:
575:
for the singer. As long as a significant percentage of the people looking at
552:
491:
452:
399:
451:
redirect currently averages just one hit per day out of almost 3,000 for
259:
249:
228:
720:
Create a DAB page. Neither is known to the audience of the other. --
555:
could be eliminated. Frankly, it makes little difference either way.
154:. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the
402:
who does not use that name professionally, unlike the footballer.
57:
38:
from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially
15:
508:
If it is clear that nearly all of the
Knowledge interest for
179:
577:
571:
532:
526:
520:
510:
394:
910:
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a
955:
Low-importance biography (sports and games) articles
277:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
355:. No further edits should be made to this section.
924:. No further edits should be made to this section.
950:Stub-Class biography (sports and games) articles
8:
398:– "Steven Morrissey" currently redirects to
608:A Google search returns mostly the singer.
514:is for the singer, then the singer is the
341:The following is a closed discussion of a
223:
89:
61:
702:disambiguation page listing both men.
225:
91:
799:are sufficient to justify this move.
7:
960:Sports and games work group articles
360:The result of the move request was:
271:This article is within the scope of
140:This article is within the scope of
940:Biography articles of living people
80:It is of interest to the following
14:
820:. I fail to see the relevance of
975:Low-importance football articles
258:
248:
227:
191:
127:
117:
93:
62:
21:This article must adhere to the
871:per BarrelProof and SmokeyJoe.
311:This article has been rated as
207:the sports and games work group
164:Knowledge:WikiProject Biography
965:WikiProject Biography articles
902:01:20, 13 September 2018 (UTC)
881:23:53, 12 September 2018 (UTC)
864:23:24, 12 September 2018 (UTC)
847:21:06, 12 September 2018 (UTC)
828:redirect page views is telling
778:01:14, 13 September 2018 (UTC)
747:00:01, 13 September 2018 (UTC)
374:11:50, 18 September 2018 (UTC)
291:Knowledge:WikiProject Football
167:Template:WikiProject Biography
1:
980:WikiProject Football articles
945:Stub-Class biography articles
813:03:28, 9 September 2018 (UTC)
730:13:13, 8 September 2018 (UTC)
716:03:04, 5 September 2018 (UTC)
681:13:32, 3 September 2018 (UTC)
591:03:01, 5 September 2018 (UTC)
438:18:52, 4 September 2018 (UTC)
390:Steven Morrissey (footballer)
334:Requested move 27 August 2018
294:Template:WikiProject Football
285:and see a list of open tasks.
204:This article is supported by
24:biographies of living persons
970:Stub-Class football articles
494:pointing to the footballer.
415:05:12, 27 August 2018 (UTC)
152:contribute to the discussion
661:03:39, 28 August 2018 (UTC)
647:20:27, 27 August 2018 (UTC)
624:19:44, 27 August 2018 (UTC)
565:03:16, 29 August 2018 (UTC)
546:03:39, 28 August 2018 (UTC)
504:20:16, 27 August 2018 (UTC)
485:19:30, 27 August 2018 (UTC)
468:07:14, 27 August 2018 (UTC)
266:Association football portal
36:must be removed immediately
996:
317:project's importance scale
310:
243:
187:
112:
88:
917:Please do not modify it.
348:Please do not modify it.
184:
70:This article is rated
183:
143:WikiProject Biography
279:Association football
274:WikiProject Football
759:1st sentence true.
698:the creation of a
185:
170:biography articles
76:content assessment
714:
440:
384:
381:non-admin closure
331:
330:
327:
326:
323:
322:
297:football articles
222:
221:
218:
217:
56:
55:
987:
919:
826:Steven Morrissey
809:
803:
706:
700:Steven Morrissey
677:
670:
643:
636:
620:
613:
580:
578:Steven Morrissey
574:
572:Steven Morrissey
535:
533:Steven Morrissey
529:
527:Steven Morrissey
523:
521:Steven Morrissey
513:
511:Steven Morrissey
449:Steven Morrissey
430:
416:
414:
412:
397:
395:Steven Morrissey
378:
350:
299:
298:
295:
292:
289:
268:
263:
262:
252:
245:
244:
239:
231:
224:
201:
196:
195:
194:
172:
171:
168:
165:
162:
148:join the project
137:
135:Biography portal
132:
131:
130:
121:
114:
113:
108:
106:Sports and Games
97:
90:
73:
67:
66:
58:
44:this noticeboard
16:
995:
994:
990:
989:
988:
986:
985:
984:
930:
929:
928:
915:
837:WP:PRIMARYTOPIC
833:WP:PRIMARYTOPIC
807:
801:
797:WP:SMALLDETAILS
675:
668:
641:
634:
618:
611:
576:
570:
531:
525:
519:
516:WP:PRIMARYTOPIC
509:
424:
410:
403:
393:
346:
336:
296:
293:
290:
287:
286:
264:
257:
237:
197:
192:
190:
169:
166:
163:
160:
159:
133:
128:
126:
103:
74:on Knowledge's
71:
12:
11:
5:
993:
991:
983:
982:
977:
972:
967:
962:
957:
952:
947:
942:
932:
931:
927:
926:
912:requested move
906:
905:
904:
883:
866:
849:
815:
785:
784:
783:
782:
781:
780:
766:
761:
760:
752:
751:
750:
749:
718:
689:
688:
687:
686:
685:
684:
683:
601:
600:
599:
598:
597:
596:
595:
594:
593:
470:
388:
386:
358:
357:
343:requested move
337:
335:
332:
329:
328:
325:
324:
321:
320:
313:Low-importance
309:
303:
302:
300:
283:the discussion
270:
269:
253:
241:
240:
238:Low‑importance
232:
220:
219:
216:
215:
212:Low-importance
203:
202:
186:
176:
175:
173:
139:
138:
122:
110:
109:
98:
86:
85:
79:
68:
54:
53:
49:this help page
33:poorly sourced
19:
13:
10:
9:
6:
4:
3:
2:
992:
981:
978:
976:
973:
971:
968:
966:
963:
961:
958:
956:
953:
951:
948:
946:
943:
941:
938:
937:
935:
925:
923:
918:
913:
908:
907:
903:
899:
895:
891:
887:
884:
882:
878:
874:
870:
867:
865:
861:
857:
853:
850:
848:
845:
842:
838:
834:
830:
827:
823:
819:
816:
814:
811:
810:
804:
798:
794:
790:
787:
786:
779:
775:
771:
767:
763:
762:
758:
757:
756:
755:
754:
753:
748:
745:
742:
738:
733:
732:
731:
727:
723:
719:
717:
713:
709:
705:
704:Roman Spinner
701:
697:
693:
690:
682:
678:
672:
671:
669:Crouch, Swale
664:
663:
662:
658:
654:
650:
649:
648:
644:
638:
637:
635:Crouch, Swale
630:
627:
626:
625:
621:
615:
614:
612:Crouch, Swale
607:
606:
602:
592:
588:
584:
579:
573:
568:
567:
566:
562:
558:
554:
549:
548:
547:
543:
539:
534:
528:
522:
517:
512:
507:
506:
505:
501:
497:
493:
488:
487:
486:
482:
478:
474:
471:
469:
465:
461:
457:
454:
450:
446:
443:
442:
441:
439:
436:
435:
431:
429:
428:
422:
421:
413:
408:
407:
401:
396:
391:
385:
382:
376:
375:
371:
367:
363:
356:
354:
349:
344:
339:
338:
333:
318:
314:
308:
305:
304:
301:
284:
280:
276:
275:
267:
261:
256:
254:
251:
247:
246:
242:
236:
233:
230:
226:
213:
210:(assessed as
209:
208:
200:
199:Sports portal
189:
182:
178:
177:
174:
157:
156:documentation
153:
149:
145:
144:
136:
125:
123:
120:
116:
115:
111:
107:
102:
99:
96:
92:
87:
83:
77:
69:
65:
60:
59:
51:
50:
45:
41:
37:
34:
30:
26:
25:
20:
18:
17:
916:
909:
890:footballer's
885:
868:
851:
817:
806:
793:WP:PRECISION
788:
736:
695:
691:
666:
632:
628:
609:
604:
603:
472:
444:
433:
426:
425:
419:
418:
406:Kailash29792
405:
387:
377:
366:No such user
362:No consensus
361:
359:
347:
340:
312:
272:
205:
141:
82:WikiProjects
47:
35:
28:
22:
922:move review
653:BarrelProof
605:Weak oppose
583:BarrelProof
538:BarrelProof
477:BarrelProof
353:move review
934:Categories
453:its target
420:Relisting.
400:the singer
72:Stub-class
894:SmokeyJoe
822:SmokeyJoe
770:SmokeyJoe
722:SmokeyJoe
712:contribs)
553:Morrissey
492:Morrissey
161:Biography
101:Biography
40:libellous
737:relative
557:Station1
496:Station1
460:Station1
288:Football
235:Football
873:Omnedon
856:Amakuru
818:Support
789:Support
696:support
692:Comment
445:Support
315:on the
886:Oppose
869:Oppose
852:Oppose
765:topic.
629:Unsure
473:Oppose
447:. The
427:bd2412
411:(talk)
78:scale.
808:Slash
708:(talk
898:talk
877:talk
860:talk
795:and
774:talk
726:talk
676:talk
657:talk
642:talk
619:talk
587:talk
561:talk
542:talk
518:for
500:talk
481:talk
464:talk
370:talk
150:and
914:.
841:В²C
802:Red
741:В²C
679:)
645:)
622:)
551:on
536:. —
307:Low
29:BLP
936::
900:)
879:)
862:)
791:.
776:)
728:)
710:•
659:)
589:)
563:)
544:)
502:)
483:)
466:)
455:,
417:--
392:→
372:)
345:.
214:).
104::
896:(
875:(
858:(
844:☎
772:(
744:☎
724:(
673:(
655:(
639:(
616:(
585:(
559:(
540:(
498:(
479:(
462:(
434:T
383:)
379:(
368:(
319:.
158:.
84::
52:.
27:(
Text is available under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License. Additional terms may apply.