444:. However, "rural district" is not mentioned at all. Secret suburbs also exist in New South Wales. As stated in the Age article, these are neighbourhoods, not suburbs, and like WA, they have no legal recognition. Typically they refer to a housing estate name or some other common aspect that streets in the area have. I share the concerns expressed by Orderinchaos that the article has a decidedly Victorian slant. This article needs to include an Australia wide view. As for the name, it's far too generic and meaningless to be of any use. Pick a spot in the world that isn't a location. --
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553:(and, later, the different state practices), I don't think the (un)official ones should be distinguished in this particular article. They're perhaps more close to concepts people in other areas will understand; but they will be different because of other distinctions (I presently live in a place called Dudweiler which in Australia would be a suburb in
470:(pop 9534). To muddy things even further, at least some of the regions are also divided into "districts" which area an intermediate level between suburbs and the LGA. I really think that it's not going to be possible to summarise the whole of Australia accurately here, we're going to have to go and describe the situation in each state separately.
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568:. I want it to communicate the cultural practices of Australia to people from other countries, and an article title like "suburbs and localities (Australia)" seems to want to discuss the word "suburb". I begin to think "Locality (Australia)" would be fine playing on the inherent ambiguity of the word. But then you'd begin with "In Australia,
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While I agree with the push to restructure it, there seems an overly
Victorian focus. In WA it works rather differently as only "localities" have legal status, although they can be gazetted SUB or LOCB in the Gazetteer. Localities also do not cover the entire state, especially in rural areas. "Towns"
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article. So I don't want to just Be Bold and replace this one. But I also don't want people to expect my replacement article to be "perfect" before I put it in place, so unless I get (what I think) are reasonable and strong objections, with "reasonable" understood as "in the context of a constructive
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Oh, and the "localities as secret suburbs" you speak of have no legal recognition whatsoever in WA and are actively discouraged by the authorities here for mainly postal reasons (try looking up
Burrendah, Brighton, Challis, Mullaloo Beach (as opposed to Mullaloo) or Dianella Heights as common ones),
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I have placed a "According to whom" template within the article because I disagree with the general statement made in respect to all of
Australia; in South Australia where I live, anyone can propose a name for a locality or a suburb or the renaming of existing locality or a suburb - please refer
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Secret suburbs are discouraged from use in
Victoria too. AFAIK they're discouraged everywhere. That's already in the article. That doesn't mean they shouldn't be discussed. The unofficial ones are real things to, by the way, and aside from mentioning that some of them are official and some aren't
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have a good idea of what that means. There will be a group of shops (or some other community centre) with houses near it. "Near" is understood relative to the design of the suburb. And it's trivial to come up with apparent counterexamples to that simplistic definition. So I would appreciate it if
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The
Victorian-centredness of what I'd written is perhaps the main reason I didn't just up-and-replace it; I don't have the time or resources to make it balanced and suitable for all of Australia, and I really don't like it when people pretend to be balanced. I would prefer that to occur because
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I don't like this article as it currently stands. At the moment, it basically an explanation about the regulatory situation of suburbs and "localities". This gives people a really poor idea of the situation. They're not (just) some formal mechanism for determining a part of an address. Instead,
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simply refer to townsites and have no relation whatsoever to the geographic naming system, they're basically a land titles invention managed under a different act (Land Act). Many gazetted townships are not even towns and have no people in them (we're not even talking ghost towns, many - e.g.
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In that regards, I think the concept suffers because, we don't really have a unified name for what we're trying to describe, partially because the concept has existed for much longer than the official system. (It is perhaps worth wondering why the "official name" corresponding to the concept
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I also disagree with the importance of this article. How are they determined? This article is about a pretty basic topic, and without a well-explained article on this topic, any article on places in
Australia (be they cities, suburbs, towns or local government areas), and even the articles
354:. (These are described in Melways as "localities" and shown in title case, in contrast to the capital letters used for suburbs. Note that the article itself isn't being presented as a source for the definition of the word, but just so you know the sort of thing I'm talking about.)
392:- only ever existed on paper). The system of gazetting new localities changed markedly in the 1990s - prior to that they were always gazetted in the Government Gazette, now it seems to be done internally within the department now known as Landgate.
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s three-way distinction between suburb, town and rural district. (Although I personally would've considered a place with a township as a town, and a rural district without a township as an undifferentiated place, but I will bow to documented use.)
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anyone knows of a good explanation of what an
Australian suburb is—one that satisfies Australians, while (more importantly) helping Americans and other people understand what Australians mean when we say "suburb".
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Anyone can propose a name, but that's not the same as determining the name. Note that the link you provided says a proposal should include "the views of the council (or local authority if not in a council area)".
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they're the culturally-normal way of specifying places within a region, and they're used in addresses. In order to be a useful article on
Knowledge, I think it needs to try and answer the following questions:
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So seeing as "locality" seems to be mired in unclarity, and the entire reason to use the terms "suburb" (and presumably other words) is to be clear for normal (Australian) people, I've gone for the
Victorian
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1998, "locality" isn't an statutorially-defined term. For that matter, neither is suburb. Instead, they're just used as if everyone knows what they mean. Now, based on my experience,
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I also agree that the title isn't perfect, but it's not really worse than the current "suburbs and localities (Australia)". The current article and title set it up as discussing the
402:
but also to hold up land values in the suburbs of which they are a component. The localities in question don't even appear in the
Gazetteer under LOCU, they're very strict about it.
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Also, I've found it really difficult to use the word "locality" in the way this article does, even though I wanted to (for consistency's sake). From a brief check of the Queensland
458:
I'd also point out that the subdivisions of the new "Regional Council" units in Queensland are all "suburb", regardless of the area in question. For instance, a rural area like
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can refer to one of three things", and that seems like a poor start to an article when they're all the same thing when looked at from another angle. (The one I'd prefer.)
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I'm just wondering. Does this term group of 'suburbs and localities' also apply to most certain place names or populated place units/areas within the nation of
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of the article. It has a different title. It uses terminology differently. It's an article that's meant to take up the same space as this one, but it's not an
316:—not a worse job than any other on Knowledge, but in its context, it probably gives a misleading idea about how a city is built-up of suburbs. The Victorian
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corresponding to what I know of as "Suburb/Town" and others think of as "Suburb/Locality" is something so clinical and unusable as "locality (bounded)".)
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etc. become hard to explain clearly to an American audience, if the current (American-centric) state of those articles is anything to go by. —
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I would like to know how things work in rural Western Australia where no localities are declared. That's crucial information for the article.
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The situation in NSW with suburbs and localities is similar to that described by Lankveil. The two terms are often interchanged. For example,
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I'm not happy yet with my definition of the word "suburb". It does a poor job of describing exactly what an Australian suburb
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How does the concept of locality differ in Australia and other countries? Especially for readers with an American background.
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https://www.sa.gov.au/topics/housing-property-and-land/local-government/suburb-road-and-place-names/place-name-proposals
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The last question is the least important, but it's the only one the current article, I think, tries to understand.
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doesn't seem to exist either. The rewrite looks good to start with, not sure about renaming the article though.
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I agree with describing each state or territory separately. Subsections could be made for each in this article.
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is registered as a suburb, even though its entry in the Geographical Names Register describes it as a locality.
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If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with
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I just want to say that the external links in the bottom of the article aren't working. Please check
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https://web.archive.org/20080311130949/http://www.nt.gov.au:80/lands/lis/newsletter/2006/march.shtml
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To refer collectively to bounded and unbounded localities. This is the definition given in the
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To refer to bounded localities in a "rural context" in contrast to the "urban" term
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speaks of "identifiable entity" that is "comparable to existing suburbs".
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after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add
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An editor has reviewed this edit and fixed any errors that were found.
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Anyway, I hope people can offer some constructive comments + edits.
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to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
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from the practice in other countries. Apologise for the italics.
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Glossary of designation values in the Geographical Names Register
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and both suburbs and localities are officially defined in the
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When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the
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http://www.nt.gov.au/lands/lis/newsletter/2006/march.shtml
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debate that can forseeably result in a happy compromise".
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I have just added archive links to 2 external links on
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http://www.psma.com.au/datasets/postcode-boundaries
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What is the official implementation of this system?
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