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1657:. Siyi describes a place within China, and is the conventional transcription of Chinese used by reliable (non-anthropological) sources. Yes, a lot of undereducated peasants emigrated from there in past centuries, and did not know the name for their region in the national language (as they would now). We tailor the encyclopedia to our policies, and not their sensitivities. The most well-known place in Siyi is named
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1507:– Looking at the above discussions, the first source (the second is a dead link), and considering the usage on other pages as well as current PRC language policy, Siyi would seem the more logical name The non-Pinyin usage(s), such as in the external links, seem mostly historical, and also are a poor guide for name the article because of Cantonese's inconsistent romanisation.
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Your comparison is spurious because the
Chinese government uses Tibetan pinyin names for Tibetan and other ethnic minority regions, not the Chinese-language name. Third-party sources are split between the Chinese pinyin name, the Tibetan pinyin name, and a conventional Tibetan transcription (if they
1406:
Perhaps this place is mostly known to the
English-speaking world via its diaspora, which would give some weight to a romanisation reflecting local pronunciation – but since it's still a place in China, pinyin wouldn't be so bad. If we start putting the lemma in a local form not only for cities like
1439:
I have changed 四邑片 to 四邑話 in order to capture the appropriate terminology, which is also the most commonly used in speech and writing. Both terms are correct, but 四邑話 refers to the language that people speak, while 四邑片 refers to the dialects as a subdivision of a larger dialect group.
1531:, as the more accurately rendered version of the name of the region as used by the natives of the region. Further, Cantonese is a dialect that has legal recognition inside China, unlike the other non-Mandarin dialects, so using Cantonese romanization is purposeful and correct. --
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represents a "local" pronunciation, insomuch as
Cantonese is the official language of local government, it does not represent the native pronunciation, which is perhaps the most distinguishing characteristic of the "four counties". In contrast, while the use of
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1754:
Regular Google hits are a poor way to judge this; at least use Google Books. However, you inspired me to investigate further and a variety of sources indeed use the
Pekinese pronunciation far more than the Cantonese variants. Thanks.
1618:) for Han regions like Siyi, and not local dialect. All of our placenames in Guangdong and Fujian (where the local dialect is somewhat known among English speakers) are in pinyin, not ad-hoc dialect romanization.
1583:- I don't oppose the current title, but can see the advantage of 1 consistent wikipedipinyin (stripped pinyin) rather than two competing Cantonese spellings. Linguistic sources seem to prefer the pinyin.
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if it stays with a
Cantonese romanisation I'd agree Seiyap is far better as the more modern and current way of rendering it in English. Still though think Pinyin is preferable, for the reasons above.--
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almost invariably marks the author as
Chinese American/Australian, and this inference will certainly (even if accidentally) denote a bias towards the views the Chinese expatriate community. The use of
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Cantonese is one of the few recognized dialects of
Chinese in China with some official standing, so Cantonese is recognized inside China, with officially sanctioned cultural dessiminators. --
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If everbody's happy now, we can remove the tag. I wonder if there's some rule that
Chinese place names must be in Hanyu pinyin in article's names, then we'd have to move it all to Siyi.
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What "legal recognition" do you mean for
Cantonese? Official PRC atlases don't list placenames in Guangdong with any Cantonese romanization. Neither do third-party reliable sources.
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has the major advantage of not being so inherently tied to a particular demographic, and likewise is a better expression of
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is non-standard. This spelling is bound to be confusing, as it does not represent any official Chinese/Cantonese/Siyi/Taishan romanization, such as
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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a
66:. The original page is now a redirect to this page. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected article, please see
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We use Tibetan romanization instead of Pinyin in those articles, so it seems like a Cantonese transcription should be the one chosen --
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has the advantage of being written in a standard orthography, and it also avoids representation of an expatriate bias in the article.
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being a local pronunciation, it has the benefit of using the orthography of a national and widely recognized standard,
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When an entry is not in pinyin form, a redirect to the article from the pinyin form could be helpful.
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are particularly anti-government). Our treatment of that controversial subject is not consistent.
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More relevantly to this article, the Chinese government uses Chinese pinyin (i.e.
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What is the merge tag doing up there? Siyi redirects to this article!?!?!?!!!!!!!
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In general, Chinese entries should be in Hanyu Pinyin. Exceptions would include:
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even though only little information at Siyi has made it into the Sze Yup article.
1129:. To help assess the quality and importance of geography articles, please see:
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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a
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When the subject of the entry is likely to object to romanization in pinyin.
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Actually, Siyi is more common than Seiyap in English by a factor of 34.
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It does, there are standardized transcription systems for Cantonese. --
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When there is a more popularly used form in English (such as “Taoism”)
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from the article. Please justify your removal or put it back in.
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Knowledge:WikiProject Ethnic groups/Article requests
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1713:. Would be fine with a move to
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1383:I'd also prefer pinyin. The
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18:Talk:Sze Yup
1804:move review
1708:more common
1469:move review
1427:Wikipeditor
1413:Wikipeditor
1301:Wikipeditor
274:Start-class
212:free images
95:not a forum
68:its history
1816:Categories
1711:in English
1486:EdJohnston
1359:). Use of
1332:Wade-Giles
1213:Notability
1162:Listed at
870:Place the
625:...orphans
610:(5,424) •
1762:AjaxSmack
1722:AjaxSmack
1704:WP:PINYIN
1616:Putonghua
1442:Aaron Lee
1421:Somebody
1375:Aaron Lee
1281:100110100
1034:Geography
1025:geography
981:Geography
880:template
461:Hong Kong
452:Hong Kong
408:Hong Kong
272:is rated
152:if needed
135:Be polite
85:talk page
1782:Kanguole
1742:Shrigley
1667:Shrigley
1620:Shrigley
1566:Shrigley
1334:. While
1328:Jyutping
655:(390) •
120:get help
93:This is
91:article.
44:deletion
1778:Support
1659:Taishan
1655:Support
1546:comment
1501:Sze Yup
1361:Sze Yup
1353:Sze Yap
1336:Sze Yup
1320:Sze Yup
1185:Infobox
1143:Cleanup
1061:on the
863:tasks:
835:on the
746:on the
659:(1,324)
614:(6,732)
589:(1,026)
572:(60) •
515:history
488:on the
383:on the
218:WPÂ refs
206:scholar
1715:Seiyap
1699:Oppose
1529:Seiyap
1525:Oppose
1116:Assess
598:(348)
543:(4) •
280:scale.
190:Google
60:merged
1556:deeds
1515:deeds
1478:Moved
1387:say:
1330:, or
1275:Merge
1241:Stubs
1227:Photo
719:Macau
714:Macau
686:Macau
576:(290)
536:(60)
525:purge
520:watch
356:China
347:China
303:China
261:This
233:JSTOR
194:books
148:Seek
62:into
56:merge
1746:talk
1702:per
1685:talk
1671:talk
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1490:talk
1482:Siyi
1409:Amoy
1369:Siyi
1365:Siyi
1341:Siyi
1316:Siyi
1246:See
1232:See
1218:See
1204:See
1190:See
1176:See
1148:See
1133:and
1107:and
1103:See
923:Iyer
547:(23)
510:edit
226:FENS
200:news
137:and
89:Siyi
72:here
64:Siyi
1796:.
1663:not
1484:.
1480:to
1345:not
1199:Map
1053:Low
951:or
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738:Low
480:Low
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240:TWL
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