Talk:P. V. Sindhu - Knowledge

1728:

claiming that they wouldn't have learned what her name is after reading the first 3 words of the article is convincing at all. This is also overlooking the unconvincing assumption that people arriving on the article do not know her for her badminton, but (inexplicably) know her anyway; they either know her or they don't. And she doesn't have a "professional name" and a "non-professional name"; it's just one name that happens to be commonly abbreviated, but used in full in her profession. All of this is notwithstanding the fact that any average reader has the capability to understand subsequent uses, in the same way an average reader has the capability to figure out that if a term is mentioned initially (e.g., "Reserve Bank of India (RBI)"), then subsequent mentions of only its abbreviation (e.g., "RBI") must be referring back to the initial mention.

4540:, and so on. Citing the reliable sources you seem to be citing as examples for WP to follow only works when you can prove that they would not do so otherwise in "normal" circumstances, which is clearly not the case. The example of V. V. S. Laxman, on the other hand, is a good example because as far as I know, he never used his full name professionally, so the article uses his given name in subsequent uses (which is still the MOS:SURNAME rule, btw). As you can probably see, this is a bit of a black swan situation: if people use their full name professionally, then WP should use their surname in subsequent uses. And rightly so, seeing as their profession is what gives them notability, which is how their article ended upon WP in the first place. 3866:, among others. Let me know if: you've noticed any articles that are duplicated across publications; you'd like to add more to the list; you've noticed any errors. I could search for non-syndicated articles, if you request, or perhaps you could be so kind and comment below, following which I would add to the table (one may update the table AGF). There were couple of articles in NYT which used PV Sindhu. Apart from that, I could not find coverage in NYT, WSJ, The Guardian, but if you could find some, please do so! The articles were chosen at random, mostly the first one I could get when I queried in the format "pv sindhu 2019 site:thehindu.com" 4623:(i.e., content) those sources report is reliable; it says nothing about whether their editorial standards are up to the highest standards. I see many spelling errors on most of the sources you linked to in your table above, and I already just pointed to examples of how even people with "normal" names are referred to by their given names, so one should take that into consideration. Many of the very sources you cited start off many of their articles with "Pusarla Venkata Sindhu" as the first line or thereabouts, so the idea that people would be baffled by the use of her surname is unconvincing. 2999:

people's given names in subsequent use is incredibly unprofessional. All of this is not to mention that she uses her surname professionally in many places (BWF, Olympics, etc.), so it's a non-starter that her given name could be used given her exclusive use of it in her professional life, as MOS guidelines allow. This was recently reinforced by the Tokyo 2020 Olympics, where she was constantly referred to as "Pusarla" and even had the same on her jersey. I highly recommend people just put this issue to bed to avoid

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URLs as not all of them are freely accessible, and could be useful broadly for everyone. Let me know if: you've noticed any articles that were syndicated and/or duplicated across publications; you'd like to add more to the list; you've noticed any errors. I could not find coverage in NYT, WSJ, WaPo, The Guardian, but if you could find some, please do so! The articles were chosen at random, mostly the first one I could get when I queried in the format "pv sindhu 2019 site:thehindu.com"

3483:. Subsequent usage in reliable sources doesn't matter, as discussed over and over again in the previous discussions, seeing as they use given names for people who use their full name consistently as well. Her name is not a pseudonym, nor is her surname a patronymic (which really only applies to Tamils and some Kannadigas). She uses her full surname consistently in professional life, which is clearly laid out in 503: 482: 1575:

in any formal writing, let alone a professional encyclopaedia. The only exceptions to this are if they simply don't have a surname / family name or if they exclusively use a different stage/professional name, neither of which clearly is the case here. MOS:SURNAME merely codifies this unwritten general rule. I don't understand why you're convinced this is "an exception" despite all evidence to the contrary.

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is going to suddenly get confused when they see "Pusarla" in subsequent mentions? The point isn't that the rules are firm; it's that there's absolutely no reason to break them in this case. MOS:SURNAME is pretty clear: if they have a surname and use it professionally, use it in subsequent mentions; if not, then use their professional/given name. I don't know why you're complicating it unnecessarily.

348: 788: 592: 571: 859: 838: 812: 434: 1378:, There's no confusion. Since the subject's common name has an initial rather than a surname, an average reader would not be aware of it. That's why we can hardly find any English-language sources which refer to her by surname. As I said in my earlier comment, MOS:SURNAME is a generalized guideline suited for names which are in standard - format, which is certainly not the case here. 710: 676: 696: 3642:

beginning of the article is not only dubious, but a bit insulting to any reader. Also, what RS are doing with regard to subsequent use is of no concern to WP, since we have our own policy on it (and because all cited RS seem to be using given names for many people regardless of their surname being abbreviated, which contradicts using those RS as evidence for what should be done).

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for many (if not most) people regardless of what their common name is is not good evidence to base your argument/vote on when your argument is "RS do this for subsequent uses in this case, so we should follow them because they are correct for all subsequent uses". But anyway, I'll not reply further to avoid the risk of trying to bludgeon this.

2861:. I can't comment on the other articles. But if there is a dispute about P. V. Sindhu, I'd say referring to reliable secondary sources is the best option, as we being editors of Knowledge, can only summarize what those sources say, and not derive our own conclusions (unless supported by predominant majority of those sources?), which is simply 4751:"Pusarla Sindhu" and "Pusarla Venkata Sindhu" redirect to the page as well, so this just reinforces the fact that it was merely an administrative decision to use the article title "P. V. Sindhu" as the canonical article title based on the overwhelming popularity of that form of her name. Nevertheless, you can look at examples like 4570:(i.e., that which is in news media and the average person's consciousness), she uses her abbreviated name (which, frankly, is a term of endearment in the same way "Gopi" for Pullela Gopichand is). MOS is clear on what should be done here; there's no need to apply so-called "common sense" because there's no sense in it, 382: 2839:. Earlier the title was K. Srikanth, but after some articles have been mentioned and used his surname "Kidambi", Knowledge article started reffered K. Srikanth as Srikanth Kidambi. And for P. V. Sindhu, she is using Pusarla in her jersey right now. So, there is no harm for Knowledge article referring her by Pusarla. 4574:. Everyone who is familiar with her professionally recognizes her last name. If they don't, they likely would've read the first 3 words of the article to familiarize themselves with it. This is no different than reading any prose where someone's name is introduced and subsequently referred to by their surname. 3850:

articles where she is only referred once or twice, and in such cases the article noted P.V. Sindhu (with or without spaces and dots) and not other format. I've added archived URLs as not all of them are freely accessible, and could be useful broadly for everyone. Many sources publish syndicated articles from

3553:

I think you fundamentally don't understand the crux of the argument. Everyone has their own given name; Eric Trump, Ivanka Trump, and Donald Trump are all known by their given names to people who know them. That, however, is not the point at all; in any article that refers to them in subsequent uses,

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subsequent uses is entirely irrelevant to what WP does; any article (or even piece of text) that introduces a term at the beginning has its own way of referring back to the term, and virtually any reader can follow that subsequent use throughout an article. Furthermore, citing RS that use given names

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Again, yes we can; WP:COMMONNAME is related to titles due to the issue of discoverability. If one types in "P. V. Sindhu" into a search box on WP, they should be able to find the article easily. This has no (and shouldn't have any) bearing on their name throughout the article; it merely happens to be

1469:. Firstly, this is refuted by the fact that people who know her know her for her badminton, not for other reasons. Saying that she is known professionally as "Pusarla Sindhu", but that people don't know her as such is illogical. Secondly, the statement is not corroborated by evidence, seeing as even 3641:

And therein lies my point: appropriate subsequent use is established by any text in the introduction. Any article has full forms at the beginning (e.g., "Reserve Bank of India (RBI)" at the beginning & "RBI" subsequently), so arguing that people do not recognize something that was defined at the

3608:

Yes, except for literally anyone who has seen one of her badminton games where she is credited as "Pusarla V. Sindhu", which is, of course, how she became notable enough to warrant an article on Knowledge. Or for those who've read practically any article cited as a RS below that starts with "Pusarla

3378:

It is not unique to them; Tamil people, Kananda people, and Malayali people do it all the time as well. Regardless, as for your examples of V. V. Giri, N. V. Ramana, that's exactly my point: they never use their legal surname professionally (unless you can show me otherwise), which is why it has not

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I was trying to draw an anology with pseudonyms to explain my point here, that we don't necessarily use the surname all the time. MOS doesn't address the case of abrreviated surnames, which is unique to Telugu people if I'm not wrong. There's no need to create hypothetical case of some Chinese name.

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No, it is not a pseudonym. A pseudonym is a fake or assumed name. Abbreviating your name doesn't make it a pseudonym, nor does it change the characteristics of what your surname is. If the name is Xi Jinping and it is abbreviated as "X. Jinping", "Jinping" doesn't suddenly become the surname. If you

1875:). But, most of Indian website and newspaper still referred Sindhu in their articles per her Telugu name P. V. Sindhu. Imo, since Pusarla well-known by her Telugu name P. V. Sindhu, we can keep the title as "P. V. Sindhu", but in the prose we should referred by her surname "Pusarla" per MOS:SURNAME. 1727:

I don't understand why you keep harping on this point. Encyclopaedias are to educate people about topics; if people are reading the article, I think it's safe to assume that they have landed on the article to learn about her. We have her full name as the first words of the article. I don't think you

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It's because they want to clearly delineate surnames from given names, since players from around the world place their surnames & given names in different places (i.e., Western names have "first names" as given names and "last names" as surnames, while the opposite is true of many Asian names).

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Sure, we can't solely rely on them, but they give a good indication. Furthermore, the BWF main website itself shows her as Pusarla V. Sindhu, as do Olympic websites. The point is that she uses her full surname professionally, which is all that matters. Every other person you've mentioned happens to

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by the weight of reliable sources.She is known as Sindhu in both her official twitter and Facebook use that and and as pointed above by RegentsPark common sense applies. Her father is known as Ramana not Pusarla and her sister Divya not Pusarla and Sindhu is referred as Sindhu not Pusarla. Now if

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is a article title policy, not related to what you have come with. And his father's and sister's articles should also be edited, per the MOS:SURNAME and should be referred as "Pusarla", after the initial mention of their given name, just like the Gandhis. Pusarla is not a patronymic, it is a family

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publications also refer to Saina Nehwal as "Saina" in subsequent use, yet you wouldn't endorse we refer to her as "Saina" in her article as well, would you? It's not about bureaucracy; it's about proper English usage. It is entirely inappropriate to subsequently refer to someone by their given name

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refer to her as "Pusarla Venkata Sindhu" at first mention. So even going by your logic of reliable sources not mentioning it, the argument doesn't hold up. Thirdly, are you arguing that a person who's landed on an article entitled "P. V. Sindhu" and has the first mention as "Pusarla Venkata Sindhu"

1403:

Again, this is what I was pointing out; I have a feeling you're confusing what sources' subsequent usage is vs. what WP's subsequent usage policy is. It doesn't matter what other sources are doing with regard to our subsequent usage policy. You argument would be valid if the article made no mention

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is just as appropriate (if not more) because of the context, which means that given that someone's given and surnames are appropriate in this (hypothetical) case, using their given name is not only inappropriate (per MOS) but also a degradation (because it is unprofessional/colloquial to use given

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with a heuristic that somehow if something "makes sense", it should be done. WP would be far more chaotic if that was the case, seeing as given the RS you've cited, many people are referred to by their given names regardless of whether they're abbreviated or not. I don't understand this relentless

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I see where the confusion seems to be arising. The title of an article has no bearing on the subsequent usage within that article; they're entirely separate. You'll notice that "El Chapo" is an article name itself (when searched), but it has just been redirected to that title. In fact, the titles

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Most of sources using Sindhu in their articles because she is well-known as P. V. Sindhu. But in fact, her surname is Pusarla. Her family names earlier abbreviated as P. V. Sindhu per Telugu name, but lately, some articles have been mentioned P. V. Sindhu surname "Pusarla". Sindhu are used in the

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used "Sindhu" for subsequent usage. A few articles mentioned the full name, but have fallback to Sindhu for later use in the articles. I've come across some articles where she is only referred once or twice, and in such cases the article noted P.V. Sindhu and not other format. I've added archived

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The jerseys are made in coordination with the athletes for each event they're participating in in accordance with the rules of the sporting body (e.g., BWF, Olympics, etc.). This means that the athlete is consenting to their name showing up as it does on the jersey (after all, it is their name),

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I've compiled a short list of ~72 links (~55 in early August 2021), supporting the givenname usage where secondary sources near-unanimously used "Sindhu" for subsequent usage. A few articles mentioned the full name, but have fallback to Sindhu for later use in the articles. I've come across some

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policy on subsequent usage, not other reliable sources' usage. Many of the same RS that are being cited refer to Saina Nehwal as "Saina" in subsequent uses, and similarly for many other people. This does not make it OK for use on WP nor does it make it acceptable for general English usage; using

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myriad examples of her using her full surname professionally. I get that "common sense" should be used when appropriate, but only if such discretion is required. Half of her life (i.e., her professional life), she uses her full name (at least, her full surname), while the other half of her life

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It's not ironic at all; I was deliberately showing how she uses "Pusarla" in her professional life, but many of the sources you've cited (such as Firstpost) refer to her as "Sindhu" in subsequent use. It was meant to prove my point about the sources you've cited being poor benchmarks for what

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I believe you are treating PV Sindhu as just another western name, which its not. Anyway, we've been arguing back-and-forth for so long, unable to find any middle ground. I think its time we should step back a bit and agree to disagree. We both made our arguments, let others put forward their

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as opposed to surname being written before. Her professional name has little bearing as we write the encyclopedia for a generalized audience who may or may not be sports enthusiasts. There's no "Pusarla" in the common name PV Sindhu, hence it makes little sense to refer to the person as such.

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is not referred to by his surname Ngô, but by his given name Diệm as per Vietnamese customs. In a similar context, Tamil names have a similar structure where (a) patronymic(s) is placed first and a given name is added on after that, with the given name being used to refer to that person (ex.

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Similarly, if she exclusively used her name as "P. V. Sindhu" professionally, then there again I'd agree with you. This isn't the case, however; she almost exclusively uses "Pusarla Sindhu", "Pusarla V. Sindhu", or "Pusarla V. S." professionally, which is what MOS:SURNAME alludes to as well.

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We both admit that there are cases where using given name is appropriate. Hence, it cannnot simultaneously be said that using given name is not an improvement. We can go on like this all day by refuting each other's arguments. But its better if we just agree to differ on this and not risk

4438:

That's the thing; most RS also refer to Saina Nehwal as "Saina". This is the point I've been making: "P. V. Sindhu" or "Sindhu" might be common, but she uses her full surname professionally quite consistently, which makes this RfC somewhat moot since MOS:SURNAME is very clear on this.

4592:, and so is your argument (part of your reply to me) unfortunately. Either way, if I am someone who never heard of her and landed on her WP page and decided to verify the citations, I would be baffled when all the citations call her Sindhu and WP calls Pusarla. It's either those 4604:

When I verify the citations and see that they use Sindhu, then I would know that she's commonly known as Sindhu. That seems "common sense" to me. To quote ScottishFinnishRadish, when in doubt, fallback and weigh reliable sources. That seems "common sense" to me. — DaxServer

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for another example; the article doesn't refer to him as "Chapo" despite that being his overwhelmingly common name. Common names and surnames have nothing to do with each other. What matters is the use of their name professionally (which is how their got their notability).

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that these sources report is reliable, which is the whole point of WP:RS in the first place. It was never meant to use RS as way to justify style decisions; that's what MOS is for, and MOS is clear on what to do for subsequent usage when it comes to names as in this case.

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I feel like we've ended up where we've started. Every one of those examples invoke her full name at the beginning, which is the point. I've already pointed out that those publications' subsequent use policies are irrelevant to WP; we have our own subsequent use policy.

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Rankireddy and Shetty use a surname as their last name, hence MOS:SURNAME. But Sindhu's case is not a parallel here because there is no surname in "P. V. Sindhu", rather there's an initial. Therefore, using Sindhu over her little-known surname definitely makes sense.

3149:, plain and simple. I've compiled a list of ~72 links (~55 in early August 2021), supporting the givenname usage where secondary sources near-unanimously used "Sindhu" for subsequent usage. Please see the Discussion below for the table. (Also requestor) — DaxServer 2882:

has rightly pointed out the inconsistencies in the jersey naming above, so that is something we wouldn't want to bank on. Also, referring to her as Pusarla makes it inconsistent with the title P. V. Sindhu. This case is similar to former international cricketer

1745:, I believe we are in a clear disagreement which seems unlikely to resolve without outside intervention. We may invite the previous participants/major contributors to the article and seek which version they endorse so that the discussion is concluded. Regards 4947:

I think there may not be enough reliable sources confirming that. There are also sources which state the youngest Padma Shri recipient is Sania Mirza, she and Sindhu both seem to have gotten it at the same age (not very sure about the months/days difference)

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who is referred to as Laxman, not by his surname Vangipurapu. Regarding the RfC being moot, please note that MOS is a only a guideline, not a rule. "It is a generally accepted standard that editors should attempt to follow, though it is best treated with

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articles; therefore, we should use it as well. This, of course, assumes that in "normal" circumstances, they would not do this. (Otherwise, you'd be arguing that WP should always use people's given names in subsequent uses, which would, of course, be an

2095:. But this has been widely discussed just two months ago but without reaching the consensus. Do you think we should boldly use the GIVENNAME? I still think some sort of hatnote is necessary, not the patronymic of course. Perhaps we should go for an RfC? 4156: 2543: 4141: 2528: 1935:

sources not Purshala and even in School and College she was called Sindhu .In this Indian name, the name Pusarla is a patronymic, and the person should be referred to by the given name, Sindhu.Her father's name is also Pusarla Venkata Ramana that is

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professionally and wouldn't otherwise. That is exactly my point: it doesn't matter what her COMMONNAME is; what she uses professionally is what matters (because, evidently, she is famous for her profession). And in her case, she exclusively uses

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names in English in subsequent use). You haven't refuted any of my arguments, which is my point in trying to discuss this: there's a fundamental misunderstanding of what policy is or how to use it with regard to what's going on in this vote.

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as well. "When a majority of reliable secondary sources refer to persons by a pseudonym, they should be subsequently referred to by their pseudonymous surnames." When the pseudonym is P. V. Sindhu, Sindhu becomes her pseudonymous surname.

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has pointed out the inconsistencies in jersey naming in various tournaments. It might very well be possible that Sindhu does not have the flexibility to use her preferred name, so that is definitely not something which we can solely rely

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As for her family deity, I have added that part as it seems to be an important part of her belief system. She and her family very frequently visit it and it being her ancestral place seems relevant to discuss in the early life section.

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I have raised it in the India Board. Purshala is wrong if that logic is extended then both she and her sister will be called by the same name. Corrected for the last time will not do it again. Highly viewed page and the name is clearly

1831:). However, it could be that they put the surname without realizing that its the given name that is supposed to be used (which seems to have resulted in the ridiculous situation that only "P V" is written on the virtual score widget on 1360:

to use first names in subsequent usage despite people having clearly publicized surnames (e.g., in Saina Nehwal's case), but it is jarring in general English usage and is considered inappropriate, especially for a formal encyclopaedia.

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Though this does not explicitly say that her family were Telugu-speaking, it does contain the statement by her: "I randomly select Telugu, Hindi and English movies." i.e. it is a reasonable inference that she understands the Telugu

4732:, so he is rightly referred to as Guzmán. If the article was just El Chapo, he should probably be referred to as Chapo. As said before Sindhu's case is not similar to Saina, Rohit, Jagan etc., hence they should not be our concern. 3985: 3207:

I don't really know what to reply to your original research arguments in the discussion below, but I've laid out the table with sources. If she's known by as Sindhu then we'll use it. I don't see anything moot in that. — DaxServer

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subsequently refer her as "Sindhu." There isn't a single source that refers to her by surname, for the same reasons we discussed above. Guidelines are for vastly generalized cases, there's no need to be bureaucratic about them. --

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as "Mbit/s" (which is the official, international symbol) despite myriad (dare I say most) publications still using the "Mbps" abbreviation, but that doesn't mean we should be writing it that way. This situation is no different.

4285: 4275: 4122: 4072: 2513: 2468: 1429:, She may or may not use her common name professionally but our average reader knows her by the name P. V. Sindhu, not Pusarla. The customary mention of the full name in the introduction does not remove the unfamiliarity. The 2775:, but after her surname has been spread and used in several articles, i think we should referred by her surname "Pusarla" right now. Some of Indian and International articles maybe not written per MOS:SURNAME, for example 1843:

has gotten it right, with Sindhu P V (that is to say, "Sindhu, P. V.") being written on the jersey and "Sindhu" being the name used on the broadcast widget. In addition, Sindhu is referred to as such in interviews (links:

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of her last name at all, but just had "P. V. Sindhu" everywhere. Since it introduces her full name as the first word of the article, the question of whether someone would be familiar or not is immaterial; it's right there.

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the subject is referred as Karunandhi not Muthuvel. Sindhu's sister Divya is referred as Divya not Purshala.Her name is also Pusarla Venkata Divya .Both Sindhu and sister Divya are called Sindhu and Divya not Purshala

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P. V. Sindhu already used her surname "Pusarla" on her jersey (see: Youtube Pusarla 2016-2021 tournaments in BWF tour and Olympics), and BWF news also generally referred by her surname "Pusarla" in their articles (ex:

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There's a clear consensus for "Sindhu". Editors seem to overwhelmingly favour the application of MOS:GIVENNAME and not of MOS:SURNAME; and a partial reason for this is that it is backed up by the usage of sources.

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She is known by a one-word name "Sindhu", but she often (if not always) uses "Pusarla V. Sindhu" professionally; therefore, we should be using her legal surname. It really doesn't get any clearer than that.

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etc., who have been referred to by their given name through out, and Sindhu is not the only outlier here. We are not conforming to the subsequent usage in relibale sources, rather confirming with them. --

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Subsequent usage has to do with the self-referentiality of articles, not with whether every subsequent use would be recognized by people otherwise. Also, there is no evidence that MOS:SURNAME is only for

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formats; as I've already pointed out, it is used for myriad articles on Chinese people and people of other cultures where it is customary to put the last name first. Let's not invent rules or reasons.

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Except you seem to be citing them as reasons for your vote, and I've already pointed out many times where they're not reliable for good examples of subsequent usage (e.g., Saina, Rohit, Jagan, etc.).

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they would be referred to as "Trump" (unless it is referring to multiple Trumps, in which case they would be disambiguated with their given names). This is clearly spelled out in MOS:SURNAME as well.

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This only adds to my earlier point that badminton folks probably do not have the flexibility to use initials, unlike other professions. Hence, its better to stick with the common name PV Sindhu. --

5342: 4280: 464: 2033:, you are correct when that she is referred to as Sindhu by all reliable sources and so should we. But just be clear, Pusarla isn't a patronymic, it's a family name that is used as an initial. -- 4703:

use their full surname professionally, which is why their WP articles refer to them subsequently using their given names. This is clearly not the case with P. V. Sindhu or with K. Srikanth. See

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Absence of evidence is not evidence. MSG17 already voted, and I figured most others did as well. As for Fylindfotberserk, I just pinged them :) I hope this nonsensical accusation will end here.

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also allows culture-specific exceptions which has been demonstrated by usage in reliable sources. So here, I see both MOS:SURNAME and MOS:GIVENNAME supporting the subsequent usage as Sindhu. --

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I've been wondering, who is the one that decides the name on the jersey? Nor I know why she's using that, neither I know if she made it clear which name she goes by. Either way, we have a

4763:

They are our concern if you're citing reliable sources' use of "Sindhu" in subsequent uses as a reason we should be doing the same here, which is what you've done in the your vote above.

3940: 2351: 1354: 4263: 5407: 5337: 4528:(as "Gopi", no less), none of whom abbreviate their surname. Now, if you're going to point out that these people write their surnames first, then allow me to address that as well: 2730:, thanks for the compilation. By this, I think we are able to demonstrate that she is almost always referred to by the given name in the subsequent use by the reliable sources. -- 4814: 4671:

My primary argument is that she should be referred to as Sindhu, inline with her common name PV Sindhu. This is consistent with other Telugu people with abbreviated surnames like

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I don't see you posting on the talk pages of Fylindfotberserk or MSG17 who expressed support for Sindhu, but has only posted on Stvbastian who expressed support for Pusarla. I'm

3754:

Soliciting opinions from previously involved editors in a neutral way is hardly canvassing; it says it right there on the page you linked to. Please stop with these accusations.

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which should really be the settling argument for this discussion. I'm not sure which parts you're referring to are OR. As for perennial sources, the list only shows that the

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If the name was "Sindhu Pusarla" (standard - format), then MOS:SURNAME makes sense. But that's not the case here, using little-used surname would only puzzle the readers. --

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In Southeast and South Asia, many people use only a personal name, which may be followed by a patronymic; in such cases, they should be referred to by their personal name.

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that is being used in a certain publication cannot be used as an argument for why we should do something a certain way here, especially when our style says the opposite;

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Her name is not a pseudonym. The culture-specific exceptions are referring to patronymics, which she does not have; her father and mother have the same surname as her.

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As for perennial sources it says nothing about whether their editorial standards are up to the highest standards. I see many spelling errors on most of the sources...

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about Telugu names. This seems to have descended into a "professional" vs "non professional" name argument, when really it is about cultural differences. Traditional

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in her profession. Almost every badminton game refers to her as "Pusarla Venkata Sindhu" or some other variant which includes her surname. In fact, in the Olympics (

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per the weight of sources. If we have two conflicting guidelines then let's go back to what we do for all content, check the weight of the reliable sources.

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From the list, one can observe that the Indian sources as well as International sources across a reasonably broad timeframe used "Sindhu" and not "Pusarla".

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correlated in many cases because someone's exclusively-used professional name happens to be their common name. This isn't the case in P. V. Sindhu's case.

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This issue keeps coming up, as evidenced in the previous section as well (I don't know why this new section was created). MOS:SUBSEQUENT has to do with

2949:- K. Lokesh Rahul , here Lokesh is his father's name and his given name is Rahul. Many south use their father's name first & then their given name. 2184: 993:

has a valid point. "P. V. Sindhu" has their family name initialized, which means it is little known and seldom used. Even the reputed media houses like

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My contention is not that you disagree with me, but with the fact that you disagree with me because of reasoning that is flawed. What RS are doing in

1706:, Yeah but we ought to write our article to an average reader who may not be a badminton enthusiast and may not know what their professional name is. 658: 648: 3256:

It makes absolute sense to refer to her as Sindhu becasue the surname Pusarla is not part of her common name "P. V. Sindhu". This is tacitly told in

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For people well known by one-word names, nicknames, or pseudonyms, but who often also use their legal names professionally, use the legal surname.

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Sorry to say I disagree with you .Her official name is Sindhu not Pusarla.Both she and her sister and father are known as Sindhu,Divya and Ramana

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For people well known by one-word names, nicknames, or pseudonyms, but who often also use their legal names professionally, use the legal surname

5377: 4830: 778: 4729: 4027: 4022: 2426: 2421: 1347:. I have a feeling the other editors above are also confusing subsequent usage in general media vs. WP's subsequent usage policy. It might be 4521: 3408: 2791:, the duo referred as Satwik and Chirag, but per per MOS:SURNAME the duo should be referred as Rankireddy and Shetty (per MOS:SURNAME in the 85: 5291:

This source does not mention the Telugu language, but it is useful because it mentions both her parents' names, so I have moved it to there.

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Could you also refer to the next section where I compiled several reliable sources, both Indian and international, using the MOS:GIVENNAME?

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does not mention Telugu names particularly, because it hadn't been discussed earlier. I think its time for an RfC to reach a consensus. --

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Point by mentioning Rankireddy and Shetty are about written style by the sources that ignored MOS:SURNAME. Addition, this case seems like

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This only adds to my earlier point that badminton folks probably do not have the flexibility to use initials, unlike other professions.

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per RegentsPark, it hardly matters whether it is 'sur' or 'given' name if it is the COMMONNAME, which sources clearly indicate it is.

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By reading this , I want to say that, I think she doesn't have surname.Many South Indian folks , I think don't have surnames. Such as

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doesn't apply to her. The case of her surname being written before her given name is not a criterion for anything, as people like

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I just provided you with many citations that exemplify my point, but nevertheless, I hope you realize that WP:OR has to do with

4453:"Saina Nehwal" is not comparable to "P. V. Sindhu." If we are looking at parallels, then its the former international cricketer 4058: 4053: 4043: 3514:

Editors should attempt to follow guidelines, though they are best treated with common sense, and occasional exceptions may apply

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That sounds fine; let's wait for others' opinions. I will be reverting back to the way it was until the discussion is resolved.

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effort to complicate things more than what they need to be. And while WP:IAR sounds like a quip, the big caveat there is "for

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and even some in his own family, but he is referred as "Gandhi" after the initial mention of his given name of "Rahul". And

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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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I'm referring to your process of analysis and reaching conclusions without providing citations. You can read more in the

3707:. - Sindhu is used when she known with patronymic name P. V. Sindhu. But, right now she doesn't use the patronymic name. 3437:

could be appropriate if the situation called for it, it's not automatically an improvement. However, in this case, using

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Sindhu became the first Indian woman to win two individual medals at the Olympics, having added to her silver in Rio 2016

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Her father is known as Ramana not Pusarla and her sister Divya not Pusarla and Sindhu is referred as Sindhu not Pusarla

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if there's no opposition in a week to come, you can revert my edit in P. V. Sindhu. I think you have a point. Thankyou

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The culture-specific usage refers to patronymics (usually for Tamils and Kannadigas); she does not have a patronymic.

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dictates that "after the initial mention, a person should generally be referred to by surname only". For example, see

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This is why practically every publication has its own style guide, and WP has one all the same. My point is that the

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are in the order " ", with people being referred to by their given or caste name in both Telugu and English. As per

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As said before Sindhu's case is not similar to Saina, Rohit, Jagan etc., hence they should not be our concern.

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The argument you and @DaxServer seem to be making is that reliable sources use "Sindhu" in subsequent uses in

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is referred to as Ramana with the same rationale. None of that has ever been in contention because it makes

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more than anything, where he is always referred to as Laxman by the cricketing fraternity and the media. --

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As for the jerseys, is it indeed true that in international events her jersey reads Pusarla (2016 Olympics,

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WP". Devolving to refer to someone by their given name in an article is not an improvement; not even close.

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and he is refered as Ramana not Pusarla just as Sindhu. Readers almost exclusively know as Sindhu which is

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since I apparently can't link to YouTube), her jersey read "Pusarla V S". This has been discussed before;

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Sure, it may be, or it may not be. Regardless, Telugu people have surnames, which makes that point moot.

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Excuse me for breaking threaded replies, but it's needed for the table. I've compiled a short list where

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Specifying the district seems fine but offering prayers does not seem very relevant without context. --

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That is speculative, and is not a strong argument at all for why we should use "P. V. Sindhu" instead.

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Who decides to put what name on the jersey? Is it her or her sponsers or the BWF or ...? But that's

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which deals exactly this kind of questions. Perhaps, you could post these links there? — DaxServer

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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join

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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join

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That's exactly what the lead sentence is for; it clearly states what the person's full name is.

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We are not conforming to the subsequent usage in relibale sources, rather confirming with them

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can be applied. Although the guideline doesn't talk about Telugu names particularly, but in

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The name PV Sindhu doesn't have the surname in it, which is akin to using a pseudonym. --

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That's why we can hardly find any English-language sources which refer to her by surname.

1343:. She has an actual family name that is not a patronymic, and she uses it professionally 4560: 4971: 4925: 4877: 4768: 4713: 4646: 4575: 4551: 4546: 4440: 4335: 3810: 3794: 3783: 3755: 3736: 3643: 3610: 3555: 3492: 3451: 3393: 3309: 3280: 3194: 3163: 3145:" (links in original) In the context of this article, the MOS:GIVENNAME supersedes the 3132: 3004: 2981: 2866: 2796: 2757: 2745: 2727: 2713: 2235: 2127: 2126:

For Sindhu or Telugu names? In case of Telugu names, I would go to India board for RfC

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use in the article and all indications are that 'Sindhu' is preferred for that in RS.

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Sindhu's name is Pusarla Venkata Sindhu and is referred as P.V.Sindhu or just Sindhu.

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the other logic is applied then all 3 of them will be called Pusarla which is wrong.

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which is "Culture-specific usages" (the heading of that section) that overrides the

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seems to capitalise the surname (I'm guessing at a quick glance), I can't say why.

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there's no need to apply so-called "common sense" because there's no sense in it,

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That at the time of writing (19 Aug 2016), she was 21-year-old and from Hyderabad

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Because we already have the examples in the likes of the former Indian President

2233:). I think we should decide where the discussion must go, and not be duplicated.) 1960:

Her Sister's name is Pusarla Venkata Divya and is referred as Divya not Purshala

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How family, fight and fortune fashioned India's very own sporting 'Wonder Woman'

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Customary ping to participating editors who may have been missed by Getsnoopy,

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It makes little sense to use a name that almost no one recognizes. As for the

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Many articles on famous personalities have entire sections on family history.

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separate discussion.) This, however, is not the case at all; cases in point:

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in the "Early life" section to be too detailed. What do you guys suggest? -

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This article has been viewed enough times in a single week to appear in the

515: 5200:"PV. Sindhu will keep hopes of all Indians high, says her father PV Ramana" 5144:"PV. Sindhu will keep hopes of all Indians high, says her father PV Ramana" 5116:"PV. Sindhu will keep hopes of all Indians high, says her father PV Ramana" 1339:

the bearing in this case, since it has to do with subsequent use, which is

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PV Sindhu wins bronze medal to create history for India at Tokyo Olympics

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Subject is exclusively referred as Sindhu or P V .Sindhu in all almost

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As someone who first made the change, you may express your views here.

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This is clearly not the case with P. V. Sindhu or with K. Srikanth.

3143:; in such cases, they should be referred to by their personal name. 3139:, many people use only a personal name, which may be followed by a 407:. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the 3574:

It makes little sense to use a name that almost no one recognizes.

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Olympics: I had a lot of emotions going through me, says PV Sindhu

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want to be technical about it, her (abbreviated) surname is "P."

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Why did you remove the became youngest qualifier for Padma Shri

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The audience must not be selected on the basis of their opinions

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Both her official facebook page and Twitter use P V Sindhu only.

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It is best if she describes how she would want to be addressed.

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has to do with content. That is, indeed, why we have our own MO

4481:... she uses her full surname professionally quite consistently 3379:"ever been in contention". It seems like you're confusing this 1985: 1977: 1839:, even though her jersey had "P V Sindhu" written on it). The 926: 310: 291:

from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially

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format which we have here. This is not inventing new rules,

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are referred to as "President Xi", not "President Jinping".

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It looks like some kind of hatnote is necessary after all.

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state, I believe it should be "Sindhu" and not "Pusarla".

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Tokyo Olympics: PV Sindhu clinches bronze medal for India

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but our average reader knows her by the name P. V. Sindhu

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subsequent usage should look like on WP, which it does.

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names, which is their father's name being the surname.

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PV Sindhu's Journey From Semi Final To Winning A Bronze

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What should be the subsequent usage for P. V. Sindhu?

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argument, the "common sense" exception applies here (

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does not apply here.Anyway taken to the Indian board.

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all 3 of them are not called by the same name Pusarla

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For my better understanding, what should be changed?

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Low-importance biography (sports and games) articles

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I'm not sure which parts you're referring to are OR.

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the subject is refered as Karunanidhi and Annadurai

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klAbKqpTHpo&t=56

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when referring to the subject of the article. Check

619:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of 514:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of 5084: 5082: 5045:Pusarla Venkata Sindhu was born and brought up in 4860:seems to capitalise the surname...I can't say why. 3721:Note: This comment from Stvbastian is a result of 3017:I think we should go for an RfC here? — DaxServer 1651:. Would you still recommend applying MOS:SURNAME? 1221:your views are welcome here too. You may comment. 4817:you shared uses Sindhu all over the article. The 3376:which is unique to Telugu people if I'm not wrong 2207:In the same article you've shared, it goes on as 1944:not Purshala. Further in South Indian names like 4847:reaching conclusions without providing citations 4596:got wrong or WP got wrong. Just thinking aloud. 3327:who is referred to as Giri, and the present CJI 2174:. There are so many Gandhis out there including 737:, which aims to improve Knowledge's coverage of 33:for general discussion of the article's subject. 4491:, I am guessing you meant Pusarla? — DaxServer 3776:on the same page that I linked to? — DaxServer 1433:format of Chinese names is not parallel to the 2187:, which has the words "Pusarla V S". Regards, 1973:PV Sindhu named BBC Indian Sportswoman of Year 1799:Hello! I was linked to this debate on another 5408:B-Class Telangana articles of High-importance 5338:B-Class biography (sports and games) articles 3429:, but this doesn't necessarily mean it is an 174: 8: 3870:Sources using "Sindhu" for subsequent usage 3425:There are cases where using a given name is 1953:Her Father's name is Pusarla Venkata Ramana 2771:beginning of the articles maybe because of 2229:(Same reply copied from India noticeboard ( 2183:name that is used as an initial. Also, see 1301:, I reckon this is a case of surname being 5323:Knowledge articles that use Indian English 4865:Perhaps, you could post these links there? 832: 670: 565: 476: 342: 231:, which has its own spelling conventions ( 5393:B-Class India articles of High-importance 2231:Special:PermaLink/1036935778#P. V. Sindhu 944:times. The weeks in which this happened: 3868: 2288: 2254:this is case in South Indian names like 5078: 5061:Pusarla Venkata Sindhu was born into a 834: 672: 567: 478: 344: 314: 5253:The editor has added two new sources: 5230: 4964:Too detailed and borderline irrelevant 4864: 4859: 4854: 4846: 4831:Knowledge:Reliable sources/Noticeboard 4826: 4806: 4764: 4760: 4733: 4709: 4597: 4488: 4480: 3773: 3605: 3573: 3550: 3488: 3375: 3370: 3177: 3130: 2220: 2208: 1466: 1400: 5428:Mid-importance Women's sport articles 5229:Neither source supports (a) that she 3178:which may be followed by a patronymic 1957:and is refered as Ramana not Purshala 259:, this should not be changed without 7: 5438:Pages in the Knowledge Top 25 Report 5348:Sports and games work group articles 4782:comments and RfC run its course. -- 3065:The following discussion is closed. 2293:using "Sindhu" for subsequent usage 1854:) which I think is better evidence. 864:This article is within the scope of 731:This article is within the scope of 613:This article is within the scope of 508:This article is within the scope of 393:This article is within the scope of 5328:Biography articles of living people 4660: 2821:too agreed with that ratioanle. -- 885:Knowledge:WikiProject Women's sport 23:for discussing improvements to the 5403:High-importance Telangana articles 5169:So what do the citations support: 2083:Based on quick glance as what the 1082:you all are free to comment here. 888:Template:WikiProject Women's sport 819:This article was last assessed in 14: 5363:Mid-importance badminton articles 4543:Which brings me to P. V. Sindhu, 3103:Requesting comments. — DaxServer 5373:Mid-importance Olympics articles 4903:The discussion above is closed. 4755:("Jackson" in subsequent uses), 3180:You missed "may be" — DaxServer 2912:clearly lists her as P.V.Sindhu 2065:on to refer her? Do you believe 930: 857: 836: 718: 708: 694: 674: 600: 590: 569: 501: 480: 444: 380: 370: 346: 315: 274:This article must adhere to the 217: 45:Click here to start a new topic. 4813:page. Ironically the Firstpost 2260:Conjeevaram Natarajan Annadurai 2069:is applicable in this case? -- 905:This article has been rated as 773:This article has been rated as 653:This article has been rated as 548:This article has been rated as 528:Knowledge:WikiProject Badminton 460:the sports and games work group 417:Knowledge:WikiProject Biography 5423:B-Class Women's sport articles 5413:WikiProject Telangana articles 5388:High-importance India articles 5353:WikiProject Biography articles 5257:Sindhu, P.V. (23 April 2020). 5193:I do not see what it supports. 3829:05:45, 29 September 2021 (UTC) 3803:22:41, 28 September 2021 (UTC) 3789:17:32, 27 September 2021 (UTC) 3764:17:04, 27 September 2021 (UTC) 3742:12:25, 22 September 2021 (UTC) 3717:06:24, 21 September 2021 (UTC) 3700:17:28, 16 September 2021 (UTC) 3369:MoS already addresses it with 2910:Badminton Association of India 1921:03:24, 14 September 2024 (UTC) 633:Knowledge:WikiProject Olympics 531:Template:WikiProject Badminton 420:Template:WikiProject Biography 333:It is of interest to multiple 1: 5378:WikiProject Olympics articles 5220:That her father is P V Ramana 5175:"Pusarla V. Sindhu | Profile" 5090:"Pusarla V. Sindhu | Profile" 4942:11:23, 28 December 2022 (UTC) 4640:. MOS says to write the unit 3725:by Getsnoopy on the former's 3677:14:01, 2 September 2021 (UTC) 3652:16:54, 3 September 2021 (UTC) 3609:Venkata Sindhu" or the like. 3606:that almost no one recognizes 3460:16:54, 3 September 2021 (UTC) 3421:07:30, 2 September 2021 (UTC) 1755:07:52, 25 November 2020 (UTC) 1738:07:13, 25 November 2020 (UTC) 1716:18:35, 24 November 2020 (UTC) 1699:18:25, 24 November 2020 (UTC) 1661:05:01, 22 November 2020 (UTC) 1636:22:26, 21 November 2020 (UTC) 1614:06:06, 21 November 2020 (UTC) 1585:04:41, 16 November 2020 (UTC) 1536:14:54, 14 November 2020 (UTC) 1499:22:27, 13 November 2020 (UTC) 1455:07:10, 13 November 2020 (UTC) 1422:18:37, 12 November 2020 (UTC) 1388:07:03, 12 November 2020 (UTC) 1371:22:07, 11 November 2020 (UTC) 1316:20:12, 11 November 2020 (UTC) 1294:04:26, 11 November 2020 (UTC) 795:This article is supported by 636:Template:WikiProject Olympics 627:and see a list of open tasks. 522:and see a list of open tasks. 457:This article is supported by 277:biographies of living persons 42:Put new text under old text. 5181:. Badminton World Federation 5096:. Badminton World Federation 5041:An editor has changed this: 2091:applies here and supersedes 1441:and there's always room for 1249:08:10, 25 October 2020 (UTC) 1231:07:43, 25 October 2020 (UTC) 1208:07:41, 25 October 2020 (UTC) 1181:09:22, 23 October 2020 (UTC) 1167:15:51, 22 October 2020 (UTC) 1134:15:30, 22 October 2020 (UTC) 1118:14:47, 22 October 2020 (UTC) 1092:14:36, 22 October 2020 (UTC) 1045:14:32, 22 October 2020 (UTC) 1023:05:47, 19 October 2020 (UTC) 405:contribute to the discussion 4958:02:57, 3 January 2023 (UTC) 4886:19:32, 29 August 2021 (UTC) 4842:19:14, 28 August 2021 (UTC) 4792:05:47, 30 August 2021 (UTC) 4777:19:32, 29 August 2021 (UTC) 4746:21:43, 28 August 2021 (UTC) 4728:El Chapo article is titled 4722:19:00, 28 August 2021 (UTC) 4694:05:22, 28 August 2021 (UTC) 4659:In the previous discussion 4655:00:22, 28 August 2021 (UTC) 4614:22:58, 27 August 2021 (UTC) 4584:21:55, 27 August 2021 (UTC) 4500:18:04, 27 August 2021 (UTC) 4476:16:36, 27 August 2021 (UTC) 4449:16:20, 27 August 2021 (UTC) 4433:11:37, 27 August 2021 (UTC) 3637:20:56, 31 August 2021 (UTC) 3619:20:41, 31 August 2021 (UTC) 3586:14:00, 30 August 2021 (UTC) 3564:18:39, 28 August 2021 (UTC) 3546:13:46, 28 August 2021 (UTC) 3528:18:15, 27 August 2021 (UTC) 3501:16:11, 27 August 2021 (UTC) 3402:20:41, 31 August 2021 (UTC) 3345:21:16, 28 August 2021 (UTC) 3318:18:39, 28 August 2021 (UTC) 3303:20:31, 27 August 2021 (UTC) 3289:16:16, 27 August 2021 (UTC) 3275:12:32, 27 August 2021 (UTC) 3242:11:40, 27 August 2021 (UTC) 3217:18:46, 28 August 2021 (UTC) 3203:18:39, 28 August 2021 (UTC) 3189:22:46, 27 August 2021 (UTC) 3172:16:16, 27 August 2021 (UTC) 3158:11:37, 27 August 2021 (UTC) 3112:10:59, 27 August 2021 (UTC) 3058:02:03, 1 October 2021 (UTC) 3026:18:30, 25 August 2021 (UTC) 3013:21:40, 24 August 2021 (UTC) 2990:17:52, 11 August 2021 (UTC) 2959:17:42, 11 August 2021 (UTC) 2219:(Culture-specific usages) ( 1776:06:13, 2 January 2021 (UTC) 1439:Knowledge has no firm rules 753:Knowledge:WikiProject India 289:must be removed immediately 50:New to Knowledge? Welcome! 5454: 5433:WikiProject Women articles 5418:WikiProject India articles 5398:B-Class Telangana articles 5358:B-Class badminton articles 5333:B-Class biography articles 2926:15:14, 7 August 2021 (UTC) 2904:clearly states P.V.Sindhu 2897:14:47, 7 August 2021 (UTC) 2875:14:31, 7 August 2021 (UTC) 2849:14:18, 7 August 2021 (UTC) 2831:13:10, 7 August 2021 (UTC) 2812:12:26, 7 August 2021 (UTC) 2766:12:51, 4 August 2021 (UTC) 2740:20:17, 3 August 2021 (UTC) 2722:20:14, 3 August 2021 (UTC) 2276:14:58, 3 August 2021 (UTC) 2244:15:26, 3 August 2021 (UTC) 2203:14:17, 3 August 2021 (UTC) 2157:11:05, 3 August 2021 (UTC) 2136:11:34, 3 August 2021 (UTC) 2122:09:49, 3 August 2021 (UTC) 2105:09:17, 3 August 2021 (UTC) 2079:08:38, 3 August 2021 (UTC) 2057:07:43, 3 August 2021 (UTC) 2043:13:42, 1 August 2021 (UTC) 2024:12:43, 1 August 2021 (UTC) 1903:08:24, 7 August 2021 (UTC) 1885:07:35, 7 August 2021 (UTC) 1013:trumps all guidelines. -- 911:project's importance scale 779:project's importance scale 756:Template:WikiProject India 659:project's importance scale 554:project's importance scale 5368:B-Class Olympics articles 5308:05:24, 30 July 2024 (UTC) 5248:19:27, 29 July 2024 (UTC) 5237:or (b) her mother's name. 5031:15:41, 28 July 2023 (UTC) 5013:13:03, 26 July 2023 (UTC) 4998:12:33, 26 July 2023 (UTC) 4867:As I've said before, the 4730:Joaquín "El Chapo" Guzmán 2213:Pusarla became the first 1327:I sense you're confusing 1157:, you'll get the idea. - 904: 867:WikiProject Women's sport 852: 818: 794: 772: 703: 652: 585: 547: 496: 440: 365: 341: 80:Be welcoming to newcomers 4905:Please do not modify it. 3067:Please do not modify it. 2795:). And, i do agree with 1864:17:06, 31 May 2021 (UTC) 1841:2014 Asian Championships 4922:Special:Diff/1129990482 4205:The New Indian Express 3409:bludgeoning the process 2777:Satwiksairaj Rankireddy 2585:The New Indian Express 5383:B-Class India articles 5037:Telugu speaking family 3538:Pharaoh of the Wizards 2918:Pharaoh of the Wizards 2268:Pharaoh of the Wizards 2149:Pharaoh of the Wizards 2031:Pharaoh of the Wizards 2016:Pharaoh of the Wizards 1687:Pusarla Venkata Sindhu 1341:what the policy states 891:Women's sport articles 815: 791: 437: 323:This article is rated 75:avoid personal attacks 4912:Padma Shri - youngest 4464:occasional exceptions 3234:ScottishFinnishRadish 3036:Rfc: Subsequent usage 955:August 21 to 27, 2016 949:August 14 to 20, 2016 869:(and women in sports) 814: 798:WikiProject Telangana 790: 511:WikiProject Badminton 436: 396:WikiProject Biography 100:Neutral point of view 4489:... her full surname 4485:provided any sources 3884:Couple of years ago 3772:you missed the part 2972:have surnames while 2307:Couple of years ago 2256:Muthuvel Karunanidhi 1946:Muthuvel Karunanidhi 1672:I would if she uses 616:WikiProject Olympics 608:Olympic Games portal 257:relevant style guide 253:varieties of English 105:No original research 5065:speaking family of 4642:megabits per second 4173:The Economic Times 3871: 2555:The Economic Times 2525:The Times of India 2348:The Indian Express 2294: 1835:'s telecast in the 1674:Pusarla (V.) Sindhu 967:August 1 to 7, 2021 961:July 25 to 31, 2021 255:. According to the 5205:The Indian Express 5149:The Indian Express 5121:The Indian Express 4853:, not talk pages. 4137:The Times of India 4104:Business Standard 3936:The Indian Express 3869: 3068: 2789:The Indian Express 2752:Given name hatnote 2495:Business Standard 2289: 2061:What do you think 1994:The Times of India 1801:another discussion 1480:non-sports-related 1435:Initials FirstName 1431:LastName FirstName 1410:FirstName LastName 1007:hard and fast rule 816: 792: 534:badminton articles 438: 423:biography articles 329:content assessment 86:dispute resolution 47: 5287:. 22 August 2016. 4840: 4612: 4594:perennial sources 4590:original research 4526:Pullela Gopichand 4522:Nimmigadda Prasad 4498: 4431: 4422: 4421: 4240:Deccan Chronicle 3787: 3740: 3684:. Per Getsnoopy. 3623:The RfC is about 3526: 3250: 3215: 3187: 3156: 3110: 3066: 3024: 2710: 2709: 2615:Associated Press 2223:) supersedes the 1913:WalkingThePath321 1837:2015 Denmark Open 1683:Pusarla V. Sindhu 976: 975: 925: 924: 921: 920: 917: 916: 831: 830: 827: 826: 734:WikiProject India 669: 668: 665: 664: 639:Olympics articles 564: 563: 560: 559: 475: 474: 471: 470: 309: 308: 267: 266: 212: 211: 66:Assume good faith 43: 5445: 5306: 5288: 5284:Deccan Chronicle 5268: 5246: 5231:was born into a 5217: 5215: 5213: 5208:. 19 August 2016 5190: 5188: 5186: 5179:bwfbadminton.com 5162: 5161: 5159: 5157: 5152:. 19 August 2016 5140: 5134: 5133: 5131: 5129: 5124:. 19 August 2016 5112: 5106: 5105: 5103: 5101: 5094:bwfbadminton.com 5086: 4990:Fylindfotberserk 4986:recent additions 4983: 4834: 4606: 4600:nor is it common 4572:nor is it common 4549: 4534:Jaganmohan Reddy 4510: 4492: 4425: 4308:Associated Press 3972:Hindustan Times 3890:A long time ago 3872: 3818: 3777: 3730: 3698: 3695: 3690: 3604: 3520: 3244: 3209: 3181: 3150: 3104: 3018: 2837:Srikanth Kidambi 2756:to the article. 2755: 2657:The Independent 2378:Hindustan Times 2313:A long time ago 2295: 2291:Reliable sources 2283:reliable sources 2214: 2201: 2198: 2193: 1825:2018 Asian Games 1818:E. V. K. Sampath 1765: 1726: 1671: 1624: 1603: 1562: 1465: 1398: 1326: 1263: 1220: 1197: 1159:Fylindfotberserk 1144: 1110:Fylindfotberserk 1081: 1073: 1065: 1057: 1054:Fylindfotberserk 1034: 989: 934: 933: 927: 893: 892: 889: 886: 883: 861: 854: 853: 848: 840: 833: 761: 760: 757: 754: 751: 728: 723: 722: 721: 712: 705: 704: 699: 698: 697: 692: 689: 678: 671: 641: 640: 637: 634: 631: 610: 605: 604: 603: 594: 587: 586: 581: 573: 566: 536: 535: 532: 529: 526: 505: 498: 497: 492: 484: 477: 454: 449: 448: 447: 425: 424: 421: 418: 415: 401:join the project 390: 388:Biography portal 385: 384: 383: 374: 367: 366: 361: 359:Sports and Games 350: 343: 326: 320: 319: 311: 297:this noticeboard 269: 224:This article is 221: 214: 206: 179: 178: 164: 95:Article policies 16: 5453: 5452: 5448: 5447: 5446: 5444: 5443: 5442: 5313: 5312: 5298: 5277: 5264:Hindustan Times 5256: 5238: 5235:speaking family 5211: 5209: 5198: 5184: 5182: 5173: 5167: 5166: 5165: 5155: 5153: 5142: 5141: 5137: 5127: 5125: 5114: 5113: 5109: 5099: 5097: 5088: 5087: 5080: 5039: 4969: 4966: 4914: 4909: 4908: 4681:S. S. Rajamouli 4661:#Subsequent use 4544: 4504: 4466:may apply." -- 4358:The Independent 4336:Washington Post 3847: 3808: 3693: 3688: 3594: 3247:Summoned by bot 3119: 3071: 3062: 3061: 3060: 3038: 2793:Hindustan Times 2749: 2196: 2191: 2010:Hindustan Times 1929: 1759: 1720: 1665: 1618: 1597: 1556: 1523:you've gathered 1459: 1392: 1320: 1257: 1214: 1191: 1145:Whether to use 1138: 1106:common parlance 1075: 1067: 1059: 1051: 1028: 983: 981: 972: 931: 890: 887: 884: 881: 880: 846: 803:High-importance 775:High-importance 758: 755: 752: 749: 748: 724: 719: 717: 693: 691:High‑importance 690: 684: 638: 635: 632: 629: 628: 606: 601: 599: 579: 533: 530: 527: 524: 523: 490: 450: 445: 443: 422: 419: 416: 413: 412: 386: 381: 379: 356: 327:on Knowledge's 324: 261:broad consensus 208: 207: 202: 121: 116: 115: 114: 91: 61: 12: 11: 5: 5451: 5449: 5441: 5440: 5435: 5430: 5425: 5420: 5415: 5410: 5405: 5400: 5395: 5390: 5385: 5380: 5375: 5370: 5365: 5360: 5355: 5350: 5345: 5340: 5335: 5330: 5325: 5315: 5314: 5311: 5310: 5296: 5295: 5294: 5293: 5292: 5275: 5274: 5273: 5227: 5226: 5225: 5224: 5221: 5196: 5195: 5194: 5164: 5163: 5135: 5107: 5077: 5076: 5072: 5071: 5070: 5069:and P. Vijaya. 5055: 5054: 5053:and P. Vijaya. 5038: 5035: 5034: 5033: 5018: 5015: 4965: 4962: 4961: 4960: 4913: 4910: 4902: 4901: 4900: 4899: 4898: 4897: 4896: 4895: 4894: 4893: 4892: 4891: 4890: 4889: 4888: 4804: 4803: 4802: 4801: 4800: 4799: 4798: 4797: 4796: 4795: 4794: 4669: 4624: 4541: 4536:(as "Jagan"), 4478: 4420: 4419: 4417: 4415: 4413: 4411: 4409: 4404: 4398: 4397: 4395: 4393: 4391: 4389: 4387: 4382: 4376: 4375: 4373: 4371: 4369: 4367: 4365: 4360: 4354: 4353: 4351: 4349: 4347: 4345: 4343: 4338: 4332: 4331: 4329: 4324: 4319: 4314: 4312: 4310: 4304: 4303: 4298: 4293: 4288: 4283: 4278: 4273: 4269: 4268: 4266: 4261: 4256: 4251: 4246: 4241: 4237: 4236: 4231: 4226: 4221: 4216: 4211: 4206: 4202: 4201: 4199: 4194: 4189: 4184: 4179: 4174: 4170: 4169: 4164: 4159: 4154: 4149: 4144: 4139: 4133: 4132: 4130: 4125: 4120: 4115: 4110: 4105: 4101: 4100: 4095: 4090: 4085: 4080: 4075: 4070: 4066: 4065: 4063: 4061: 4056: 4051: 4046: 4041: 4035: 4034: 4032: 4030: 4025: 4020: 4015: 4010: 4004: 4003: 3998: 3993: 3988: 3983: 3978: 3973: 3969: 3968: 3963: 3958: 3953: 3948: 3943: 3938: 3932: 3931: 3926: 3921: 3916: 3911: 3906: 3901: 3895: 3894: 3891: 3888: 3885: 3882: 3879: 3876: 3846: 3843: 3842: 3841: 3840: 3839: 3838: 3837: 3836: 3835: 3834: 3833: 3832: 3831: 3747: 3746: 3745: 3744: 3729:. — DaxServer 3702: 3679: 3661: 3660: 3659: 3658: 3657: 3656: 3655: 3654: 3589: 3588: 3568: 3567: 3566: 3530: 3503: 3477: 3476: 3475: 3474: 3473: 3472: 3471: 3470: 3469: 3468: 3467: 3466: 3465: 3464: 3463: 3462: 3443: 3433:. While using 3356: 3355: 3354: 3353: 3352: 3351: 3350: 3349: 3348: 3347: 3251: 3227: 3226: 3225: 3224: 3223: 3222: 3221: 3220: 3219: 3118: 3115: 3101: 3100: 3091: 3077: 3074: 3072: 3063: 3046:RandomCanadian 3042: 3041: 3040: 3039: 3037: 3034: 3033: 3032: 3031: 3030: 3029: 3028: 2943: 2942: 2941: 2940: 2939: 2938: 2937: 2936: 2935: 2934: 2933: 2932: 2931: 2930: 2929: 2928: 2708: 2707: 2705: 2703: 2701: 2699: 2694: 2690: 2689: 2687: 2685: 2683: 2681: 2676: 2672: 2671: 2669: 2667: 2665: 2663: 2658: 2654: 2653: 2651: 2649: 2647: 2645: 2640: 2636: 2635: 2630: 2625: 2620: 2618: 2616: 2612: 2611: 2606: 2601: 2596: 2591: 2586: 2582: 2581: 2576: 2571: 2566: 2561: 2556: 2552: 2551: 2546: 2541: 2536: 2531: 2526: 2522: 2521: 2516: 2511: 2506: 2501: 2496: 2492: 2491: 2486: 2481: 2476: 2471: 2466: 2462: 2461: 2456: 2451: 2446: 2441: 2436: 2432: 2431: 2429: 2424: 2419: 2414: 2409: 2405: 2404: 2399: 2394: 2389: 2384: 2379: 2375: 2374: 2369: 2364: 2359: 2354: 2349: 2345: 2344: 2339: 2334: 2329: 2324: 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Ormond 3683: 3680: 3678: 3674: 3670: 3666: 3663: 3662: 3653: 3649: 3645: 3640: 3639: 3638: 3634: 3630: 3626: 3622: 3621: 3620: 3616: 3612: 3607: 3602: 3598: 3593: 3592: 3591: 3590: 3587: 3583: 3579: 3575: 3572: 3569: 3565: 3561: 3557: 3552: 3549: 3548: 3547: 3543: 3539: 3534: 3531: 3529: 3524: 3519: 3515: 3511: 3507: 3504: 3502: 3498: 3494: 3490: 3486: 3482: 3479: 3478: 3461: 3457: 3453: 3448: 3444: 3440: 3436: 3432: 3428: 3424: 3423: 3422: 3418: 3414: 3410: 3405: 3404: 3403: 3399: 3395: 3391: 3387: 3382: 3377: 3372: 3368: 3367: 3366: 3365: 3364: 3363: 3362: 3361: 3360: 3359: 3358: 3357: 3346: 3342: 3338: 3334: 3333:perfect sense 3330: 3326: 3321: 3320: 3319: 3315: 3311: 3306: 3305: 3304: 3300: 3296: 3292: 3291: 3290: 3286: 3282: 3278: 3277: 3276: 3272: 3268: 3264: 3263:MOS:GIVENNAME 3259: 3255: 3252: 3248: 3243: 3239: 3235: 3231: 3228: 3218: 3213: 3206: 3205: 3204: 3200: 3196: 3192: 3191: 3190: 3185: 3179: 3175: 3174: 3173: 3169: 3165: 3161: 3160: 3159: 3154: 3148: 3144: 3142: 3138: 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S. 1675: 1669: 1664: 1663: 1662: 1658: 1654: 1650: 1646: 1642: 1639: 1638: 1637: 1633: 1629: 1622: 1617: 1616: 1615: 1611: 1607: 1601: 1595: 1594:WP:COMMONNAME 1591: 1588: 1587: 1586: 1582: 1578: 1573: 1570: 1567: 1560: 1555: 1553: 1537: 1533: 1529: 1524: 1521: 1518: 1515: 1512: 1509: 1505: 1502: 1501: 1500: 1496: 1492: 1487: 1484: 1481: 1478: 1475: 1472: 1468: 1463: 1458: 1457: 1456: 1452: 1448: 1444: 1440: 1436: 1432: 1428: 1425: 1424: 1423: 1419: 1415: 1411: 1406: 1402: 1396: 1391: 1390: 1389: 1385: 1381: 1377: 1374: 1373: 1372: 1368: 1364: 1359: 1356: 1353: 1350: 1346: 1342: 1338: 1334: 1330: 1324: 1319: 1318: 1317: 1313: 1309: 1304: 1300: 1297: 1296: 1295: 1291: 1287: 1283: 1279: 1278:MOS:GIVENNAME 1275: 1271: 1267: 1261: 1256: 1255: 1250: 1246: 1242: 1238: 1234: 1233: 1232: 1228: 1224: 1218: 1213: 1212: 1209: 1205: 1201: 1195: 1190: 1189: 1182: 1178: 1174: 1170: 1169: 1168: 1164: 1160: 1156: 1152: 1148: 1142: 1137: 1136: 1135: 1131: 1127: 1123: 1119: 1115: 1111: 1107: 1103: 1102:MOS:GIVENNAME 1099: 1098: 1097: 1096: 1093: 1089: 1085: 1079: 1071: 1063: 1055: 1050: 1049: 1046: 1042: 1038: 1032: 1027: 1026: 1025: 1024: 1020: 1016: 1012: 1008: 1004: 1000: 996: 992: 987: 978: 968: 965: 962: 959: 956: 953: 950: 947: 946: 943: 940: 939:Top 25 Report 936: 929: 928: 912: 908: 902: 899: 898: 895: 882:Women's sport 878: 874: 870: 868: 863: 860: 856: 855: 851: 845: 844:Women's sport 842: 839: 835: 822: 813: 809: 808: 804: 801:(assessed as 800: 799: 789: 785: 784: 780: 776: 770: 767: 766: 763: 746: 745: 740: 736: 735: 727: 716: 714: 711: 707: 706: 702: 688: 683: 680: 677: 673: 660: 656: 650: 647: 646: 643: 626: 622: 618: 617: 609: 598: 596: 593: 589: 588: 584: 578: 575: 572: 568: 555: 551: 545: 542: 541: 538: 521: 517: 513: 512: 507: 504: 500: 499: 495: 489: 486: 483: 479: 466: 463:(assessed as 462: 461: 453: 452:Sports portal 442: 435: 431: 430: 427: 410: 409:documentation 406: 402: 398: 397: 389: 378: 376: 373: 369: 368: 364: 360: 355: 352: 349: 345: 340: 336: 330: 322: 318: 313: 312: 304: 303: 298: 294: 290: 287: 283: 279: 278: 273: 271: 270: 262: 258: 254: 250: 246: 242: 238: 234: 230: 229: 223: 220: 216: 215: 196: 195: 192: 189: 187: 183: 182: 177: 173: 170: 167: 163: 159: 155: 152: 149: 146: 143: 140: 137: 134: 131: 127: 124: 123:Find sources: 120: 119: 111: 110:Verifiability 108: 106: 103: 101: 98: 97: 96: 87: 83: 81: 78: 76: 72: 69: 67: 64: 63: 57: 53: 52:Learn to edit 49: 46: 41: 40: 37: 36: 32: 26: 22: 18: 17: 5282: 5262: 5228: 5210:. Retrieved 5203: 5183:. Retrieved 5178: 5168: 5154:. Retrieved 5147: 5138: 5126:. Retrieved 5119: 5110: 5098:. Retrieved 5093: 5073: 5067:P. V. Ramana 5056: 5051:P. V. Ramana 5040: 4980:Fahrurozi.86 4967: 4915: 4904: 4872: 4868: 4850: 4700: 4641: 4636: 4635: 4627: 4620: 4538:Rohit Sharma 4530:Saina Nehwal 4517: 4512: 4483:You haven't 4460:common sense 4424:— DaxServer 4423: 4408:(July 2021) 4364:(July 2021) 4342:(July 2021) 4225:(July 2016) 4220:(Sept 2019) 4215:(Sept 2020) 4188:(Sept 2019) 4183:(July 2020) 4099:(Sept 2012) 4024:(Sept 2019) 3987:(July 2019) 3952:(Sept 2019) 3947:(Sept 2020) 3925:(Sept 2013) 3915:(July 2019) 3887:A while ago 3875:Publication 3848: 3704: 3686: 3681: 3664: 3624: 3570: 3532: 3513: 3505: 3480: 3446: 3438: 3434: 3430: 3426: 3389: 3385: 3380: 3329:N. V. Ramana 3253: 3229: 3122: 3102: 3093: 3084: 3079: 3076: 3073: 3064: 3001:WP:DEADHORSE 2995: 2982:-- DaxServer 2974:Tamil people 2944: 2867:-- DaxServer 2758:-- DaxServer 2714:-- DaxServer 2711: 2698:(July 2021) 2662:(July 2021) 2644:(July 2021) 2605:(July 2016) 2600:(Sept 2019) 2595:(Sept 2020) 2570:(Sept 2019) 2565:(July 2020) 2423:(Sept 2019) 2393:(July 2019) 2363:(Sept 2019) 2358:(Sept 2020) 2343:(Sept 2013) 2333:(July 2019) 2310:A while ago 2298:Publication 2280: 2251: 2236:-- DaxServer 2228: 2189: 2172:Rahul Gandhi 2128:-- DaxServer 2097:-- DaxServer 2049:-- DaxServer 1955:P. V. Ramana 1938:P. V. Ramana 1930: 1895:-- DaxServer 1822: 1805:Telugu names 1798: 1686: 1682: 1678: 1673: 1648: 1644: 1434: 1430: 1409: 1345:consistently 1344: 1336: 1302: 1269: 1150: 1146: 1011:common sense 982: 941: 906: 873:project page 865: 820: 796: 774: 744:project page 742: 732: 726:India portal 654: 614: 549: 509: 458: 394: 335:WikiProjects 300: 288: 281: 275: 248: 244: 240: 236: 232: 225: 184: 171: 165: 157: 150: 144: 138: 132: 122: 94: 25:P. V. Sindhu 19:This is the 5049:, India to 4984:I find the 4386:(Aug 2021) 4328:(Aug 2013) 4323:(Aug 2016) 4318:(Aug 2018) 4302:(Oct 2011) 4297:(Aug 2013) 4292:(Aug 2016) 4287:(Dec 2019) 4282:(Aug 2020) 4277:(Aug 2021) 4272:First Post 4265:(Dec 2013) 4260:(Dec 2016) 4255:(Aug 2019) 4250:(Oct 2020) 4245:(Aug 2021) 4235:(May 2010) 4230:(Aug 2013) 4210:(Aug 2021) 4198:(Aug 2014) 4178:(Aug 2021) 4168:(Oct 2012) 4163:(Jan 2014) 4158:(Aug 2016) 4153:(Aug 2019) 4148:(Aug 2020) 4143:(Aug 2021) 4129:(Aug 2013) 4124:(Aug 2016) 4119:(Aug 2019) 4109:(Aug 2021) 4094:(Aug 2013) 4089:(Aug 2016) 4084:(Aug 2019) 4079:(Nov 2020) 4074:(Aug 2021) 4060:(Aug 2016) 4055:(Aug 2019) 4045:(Aug 2021) 4029:(Oct 2016) 4014:(Aug 2021) 4002:(Dec 2010) 3997:(Aug 2013) 3992:(Nov 2016) 3982:(Oct 2020) 3977:(Aug 2021) 3967:(Dec 2011) 3962:(Dec 2013) 3957:(Oct 2015) 3942:(Aug 2021) 3930:(Oct 2011) 3920:(Nov 2015) 3910:(Aug 2020) 3905:(Aug 2021) 3601:RegentsPark 3518:RegentsPark 3510:MOS:SURNAME 3485:MOS:SURNAME 3431:improvement 3427:appropriate 3390:maintaining 3381:coincidence 3258:MOS:SURNAME 3147:MOS:SURNAME 3089:MOS:SURNAME 2996:Knowledge's 2966:Newton Euro 2951:Newton Euro 2859:MOS:SURNAME 2680:(Aug 2021) 2675:Al Jazeera 2634:(Aug 2013) 2629:(Aug 2016) 2624:(Aug 2018) 2610:(May 2010) 2590:(Aug 2021) 2580:(Aug 2014) 2560:(Aug 2021) 2550:(Oct 2012) 2545:(Aug 2016) 2540:(Aug 2019) 2535:(Aug 2020) 2530:(Aug 2021) 2520:(Aug 2013) 2515:(Aug 2016) 2510:(Aug 2019) 2500:(Aug 2021) 2490:(Aug 2013) 2485:(Aug 2016) 2480:(Aug 2019) 2475:(Nov 2020) 2470:(Aug 2021) 2460:(Aug 2016) 2455:(Aug 2018) 2450:(Aug 2019) 2440:(Aug 2021) 2428:(Oct 2016) 2413:(Aug 2021) 2403:(Dec 2010) 2398:(Nov 2016) 2388:(Oct 2020) 2383:(Aug 2021) 2373:(Dec 2013) 2368:(Oct 2015) 2353:(Aug 2021) 2338:(Nov 2015) 2328:(Aug 2020) 2323:(Aug 2021) 2264:MOS:SURNAME 2225:MOS:SURNAME 2168:MOS:SURNAME 2093:MOS:SURNAME 2067:MOS:SURNAME 1333:MOS:SURNAME 1303:initialized 1266:MOS:SURNAME 1264:No, as per 1003:MOS:SURNAME 226:written in 148:free images 31:not a forum 5317:Categories 5185:16 January 5100:16 January 5074:References 4855:Ironically 4837:talk to me 4829:There's a 4677:V. V. Giri 4673:VVS Laxman 4609:talk to me 4495:talk to me 4455:VVS Laxman 4428:talk to me 4380:Al Jazeera 3845:Discussion 3723:canvassing 3709:Stvbastian 3625:subsequent 3325:V. V. Giri 3212:talk to me 3184:talk to me 3153:talk to me 3141:patronymic 3137:South Asia 3107:talk to me 3021:talk to me 2978:patronymic 2885:VVS Laxman 2841:Stvbastian 2804:Stvbastian 2318:The Hindu 2215:. 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