Talk:Posting system - Knowledge (XXG)

395: 21: 368: 202: 54: 558: 1175: 1085: 720: 1155: 1139: 1107: 1062: 1029: 1013: 1001: 928: 1050: 336: 944: 405: 260: 233: 507: 270: 1324: 1307: 1294: 1281: 1264: 1251: 1234: 1221: 1835:"Of the thirteen, seven were immediately signed to Major League contracts. These contracts range from $ 1.4 million to $ 52 million. Of the remaining five, three were signed to minor league contracts and four were unsuccessful in drawing bids from any Major League clubs." - Seven plus five is twelve. A math check is needed here. 2076:

What do these sentences mean? "After the Nomo case, NPB officials had amended the Working Agreement to prevent the situation from recurring. However, MLB officials were never told of any changes to the Agreement." That is, if there's an agreement, but the parties don't know about it, how can there be

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I was aware of the KBO version of the posting system though not familiar of all of the details. From what I can tell it looks like the systems started out identical but they have been evolving differently since their inception. I'm going to do some research but my initial impressions make me thing

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I'd say it's time for an article fork. The KBO article can be tagged as a stub until it gets fleshed out. If you don't mind, Torsodog, I nominate you to do the fork. You seem to be the most knowledgeable of us about the KBO system, and I have a bunch of things on my plate in the next few days. —

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Nice article on an obscure subject! If I had a critique it would be that the beginning of paragraph 2 led me to believe that the sealed bids would go to the player rather than his NPB team. I may be expecting too much to ask that everything be explained in a single sentence rather than two.

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There really isn't too much to explain. MLB agreed to this because they want an avenue to get great NPB players. That is the only interest the system is serving for MLB. The system is mostly in place to protect NPB from losing it's best players early to MLB, thus destroying their league.

1275:-there is a missing punctuation here, that makes the sentence read akward, "," should be before the "where". Also that last part of that sentence read un-neutral, it should read more along the lines of "where he played a season that placed him as a candidate for the NLRotY award. 974:-there is a missing punctuation here, that makes the sentence read akward, "," should be before the "where". Also that last part of that sentence read un-neutral, it should read more along the lines of "where he played a season that placed him as a candidate for the NLRotY award. 2107:"Presently, the agreement is in effect on a year-to-year basis, terminable at the option of either the MLB Commissioner or the NPB Commissioner provided notice to terminate is given 180 days prior to December 15 of any given year." Presumably this mean anytime prior to June 18? 800:

says Nomo (and Alfonso Soriano). I do agree that it's a little of both, in that losing Nomo and Soriano without compensation motivated Japanese teams to come up with a formalized system, while the Irabu ordeal created the motivation for MLB players, and by extension, MLB teams.

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That is kind of the point. The NPB amended the agreement to prevent something like the Nomo case from happening again, but since MLB had not agreed to any changes, they proceeded under the conditions of the agreement pre-amendment and declared Soriano a free agent anyways.

1520:"While playing for the San Francisco Giants' Class-A team, the Fresno Giants, one of the players, pitcher Masanori Murakami, was named California League Rookie of the Year." - this sentence seems choppy because of all the offset comma phrases. I suggest the following: 1180:

This is a well written article, and meets many of aspects of the GA-criteria, however, there a few minor problems, but I assume they can be fixed promptly, and the article can pass then, but for now, I will give it a week's time before it is passed or fail. Good

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The article on says that the posting system came about because of the San Diego Padres claiming his exclusive rights. This article says it came about because of Nomo. Which one is right? If it's a little of both, we should expand the article to fully explain.

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I'm pretty sure they are the dollar amounts and the teams are just being playful with their bids. The 194 on the end of the bid for Kei Igawa, for example, represents how many times he struck someone out in his previous season.

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First of all, thank you so much for taking the time to review my article! Secondly, I have addressed every suggestion outlined in the your checklist, hopefully adequately. I hope this is enough to have it pass the GA criteria.

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Your comments were very helpful. Thanks! I changed most of them but 3 or 4 of them require me to do a bit of research, so those changes are still in the works for now. I'll let you know when I address them all. Thanks again!

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a posting fee in a round number of Japanese yen and the news media converted it to a rough US dollar equivalent when they reported the story. But is this always the case or are US teams free to offer bids in dollars or yen?

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Reading the article it isn't clear to me why MLB ever agreed to this, especially considering it only applies to Japan-to-US players and not the reverse. It doesn't seem to serve their interests at all. Perhaps someone can

1946:"He could allege that by requiring MLB teams to pay large transfer fees to NPB teams, the posting system artificially depresses the player's compensation." sounds speculative. I would re-word the surrounding sentences to 2413:

currently and thus does not meet the Featured Article criteria. An interested editor needs to either fully write about KBO in this article, or split it off and remove KBO from the lead and the transaction tables.

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Sheinin suggested that, if the negotiations were to fail, Boras could take legal action, alleging that requiring MLB teams to pay large transfer fees to NPB teams artificially depresses the player's compensation.

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This retirement enabled Nomo to void his contract with the Buffaloes and sign with the Los Angeles Dodgers a year later where he put together a season worthy of winning him the National League Rookie of the Year

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Thanks for the feedback, everyone. We're currently in a state where the lead mentions something that isn't really discussed in the body at all, other than the table covering two transactions. This goes against

2726: 2287:? It introduces things that seemingly expand the scope of the entire article, to include the KBO. I removed the edit because it's mostly poorly sourced and written, but I think it warrants discussion. -- 172: 35: 2836: 1552: 2956: 1381:

The Commissioner then notifies all MLB teams of the posted player and holds a four-day-long silent auction during which interested MLB teams submit sealed bids (in USD) to the Commissioner’s Office.

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I was asked to provide some additional comments for this article in preparation for an FA nom. Below are those comments (and no, that wasn't supposed to sound like the beginning of an episode of

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My understanding is that the KBO posting system is the same as the NPB system used to be (i.e., blind bids and 30 days to negotiate with the high bidder). I will bring this to the attention of

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I would prefer it as June 18th. There is no reason to repeat the legal words of a contract, when people will wonder "Does that mean something other than June 18?" (after they do the math).

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Hm, I'll try to find one, but it is such an obvious fact that it might be difficult. I could try to reword it using the sources I do have, however, if I can't find a new, adequate source.

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article is crap. They actually have the dates/years wrong in the article. Poor fact checking in that thing. Anyways, I'll check my book source to see if I can simply use that instead.

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The first sentence (the introduction sentence), it says that it is in effect between Japan's NPB and MLB, is there an MLB in Japan, if not, it should read "and the United States MLB"

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the first sentence (the introduction sentence), it says that it is in effect between Japan's NPB and MLB, is there an MLB in Japan, if not, it should read "and the United States MLB"

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To the anonymous editor insisting on this text: Please discuss why you are re-introducing the same text without addressing my concerns about the quality of writing and sources. --

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I used to have stats in this portion of the article, but I felt it got into unneeded detail considering the article's topic. I see your point though and I'll work something out.

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And similarly, Red Sox's bid for Matsuzaka was actually, $ 51,111,111.11, which I'm can't find any source explaining the significance of, except possibly Theo Epstein's love of

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One of the players, pitcher Masanori Murakami, was named the California League Rookie of the Year while playing for the Fresno Giants (the San Francisco Giants' Class-A team).

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https://web.archive.org/web/20081207084256/http://boston.redsox.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20081130&content_id=3695971&vkey=news_bos&fext=.jsp&c_id=bos

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https://web.archive.org/web/20080418000446/http://tampabay.rays.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20061215&content_id=1761827&vkey=news_tb&fext=.jsp&c_id=tb

153: 134: 96: 653: 3006: 487: 2730: 1589:"NPB officials objected, however, stating that they" - the "however" causes a reading issue to my eyes, I would remove it; the meaning isn't changed without it. 2840: 574: 2981: 326: 691: 2019:

This article looks very well done. I'm even more impressed now! One thing I saw: "November 1–March 1" needs to be a spaced en-dash per WP:DASH. Cheers!

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that it might be worth mentioning in this article but then creating a separate KBO posting system article that outlines its specifics and history. --

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Nice catch! I added the spaces. And thanks for finding that list of first players in the MLB. For some reason I had a lot of trouble finding it. --

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I'll go with Torsodog's plan here. If what he's saying pans out, the two systems are now different enough that they need separate articles. —

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Yes. The actual agreement words it similarly to how I have worded it in the article. Would you prefer it to state June 18th specifically? --

1915:"According to one JPBPA official, however, the Japanese court process is too long and involved, therefore the 'problem can't be helped.'" - 906: 670: 624: 611: 2213:

is being posted to MLB from KBO. That seems to be something that should be added here, but this article is only about the NPB process. –

3011: 2991: 2971: 2283:(pinging both of you because you've been the most active editors on this article over the last couple of years), can you take a look at 1537:"first Japanese player to play in MLB" - there is a list of countries by first MLB player (somewhere) that could easily be linked here. 1133: 438: 430: 1917:

However, according to one JPBPA official, the Japanes court process is too long and involved; therefore, the "problem can't be helped.

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Looks way more better, just one thing you said you checked, but you didn't. Which was, "In what currency is the Bid under? USD or Yen?

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http://boston.redsox.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20081130&content_id=3695971&vkey=news_bos&fext=.jsp&c_id=bos

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Both examples are only linked in the article prose once now, though I left the list linked a second time in the image caption

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http://tampabay.rays.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20061215&content_id=1761827&vkey=news_tb&fext=.jsp&c_id=tb

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I question the use of date ranges using slashes (e.g., 2006/07). The preferable method would be 2006–2007, I believe, per

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In the past posting table, there one of the "winning bids" reads "Undisclosed", could you elaborate on what is meant here?

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In the pats posting table, there one of the "winning bids" reads "Undisclosed", could you elaborate on what is meant here?

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Follow-up: I ended up just removing the sentence as it wasn't necessary at all. I introduced the '67 Agreement instead.

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Oh, I missed that. Thank you. Now that these concerns have been addressed, this article is now a GA. Congratulations.

728: 53: 2616: 1793:- several terms, including MLB Commissioner and List of Major League Baseball players from Japan, are double-linked 991: 2867:

to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the

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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the

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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the

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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the

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https://web.archive.org/web/20140126083253/http://mlb.si.com/2013/12/17/masahiro-tanaka-japan-mlb-npb-posting/

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Corrected. There was another number mistake stemming from players reposting themselves that I also fixed here.

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The explanation on Knowledge (XXG) is as good as anything I'd be able to come up with, so I'll copy it here:

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I think I wrote the part about Nomo, but I didn't refer to any sources (I know, I know, always cite). This

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and the article doesn't currently meet the FA criteria because of it. We'll need to address that soon. --

1318:(it was not technically incorrect, though I changed it to "neither team" in order to avoid any confusion) 825:'s posting fee was reported widely as $ 51.11 million (6 billion yen). This leads me to assume that the 2886:

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Sounds good. I had a hard time writing the legal bits of this article. Thanks for the suggestion!

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before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template

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I thought this looked weird, but Firefox didn't underline it so I kept it. I changed it though

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I gave rewording a it a shot. Check it out and let me know if there is still any confusion.

1636: 1149: 2144: 2108: 2078: 1729:"The Major League Baseball Players Association (MLBPA) sided with Irabu" - add comma after 882: 878: 783: 762: 275: 1657:

Actually, I just removed "strongly". How he pitched that year is irrelevant to the topic.

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The popular press in the US tends to report posting fees in US Dollars --- for example,

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I believe that the word "major" in the third sentence is not needed. Sounds un-neutral.

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I believe that the word "major" in the third sentence is not needed. Sounds un-neutral.

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Actually, I addressed it in the Process section by adding the parenthetical phrase in

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I'm working on it now. I'll have something worth posting by the end of the night. --

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and since there were no set legal rules in place to govern process, problems arose.

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and since there were no set legal rules in place to govern process, problems arose.

450: 410: 2387:, because I'm not sure if the KBO posting should go here or in its own article. – 1506:

You use the acronym (US) without defining it; also, "U.S." is the preferred usage.

1821:"the winning Major League team" - MLB should be used like the rest of the article 2617:

https://web.archive.org/web/20110716021329/http://padres.scout.com/2/211057.html

864: 830: 1635:"After pitching strongly the following season for the Giants," - this could be 2859:. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than 2749:. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than 2639:. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than 2529:. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than 719: 400: 265: 759:"Hideo Nomo Paved The Way For A Generation Of Damn Good Japanese Ballplayers" 802: 335: 1400: 1357: 1184: 288: 2620: 1314:

There has been a recent IP edit, where he changed one of the sentences,

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There has been a recent IP edit, where he changed one of the sentences,

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article from this section but still used it for another ref elsewhere.

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http://mlb.si.com/2013/12/17/masahiro-tanaka-japan-mlb-npb-posting/

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Still, it is quite confusing. There must be some better wording.

424: 1639:. What is "strongly"? Choice statistics, backed by a source like 1331:

There are some places, which I posted above, that need revision.

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There are some places, which I posted above, that need revision.

1666:"became the second Japane-born player" - Japan-born or Japanese 1962:

Hope that these comments are helpful; if you could leave me a

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Hmmm I can't seem to find the list. I'll keep looking though.

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suggests that the Irabu saga was the motivation, while this

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B. Images are provided where possible and appropriate, with

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Good point. I changed it June 18th. Reads a cleaner now. --

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Featured articles that have appeared on the main page once

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for additional information. I made the following changes:

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for additional information. I made the following changes:

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for additional information. I made the following changes:

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for additional information. I made the following changes:

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A. Images are copyright tagged, and non-free images have

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This article appeared on Knowledge (XXG)'s Main Page as

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when they are complete, I will re-review at that time.

1315: 1113: 550: 545: 540: 535: 458: 165: 146: 127: 108: 89: 2409:. Just another note that the article is not following 1849:

Kaz Ishii's bid looks to be incomplete ("$ 11,260,00")

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Featured articles that have appeared on the main page

1932:"Some NPB insiders" - who? One person is not "some". 1764:

Wow, usually people say I use commas TOO much! Added

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If you would like to 2928:He should be added to the table, right? 199: 514:This article is supported by the joint 459: 364: 229: 1245:(do you mean "to govern the process"?) 964:(do you mean "to govern the process"?) 3007:Low-importance Japan-related articles 2621:http://padres.scout.com/2/211057.html 1865:system was enacted by NPB club owners 1775:Nomura to help rectify his situation" 7: 794:International Herald Tribune article 416:This article is within the scope of 301:Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject Baseball 281:This article is within the scope of 2982:FA-Class Japanese baseball articles 218:It is of interest to the following 1807:"nonnegotiable" - "non-negotiable" 1316:is the edit correct, or incorrect? 1114:is the edit correct, or incorrect? 1082:Fair representation without bias: 943: 14: 2952:Knowledge (XXG) featured articles 2823:. Please take a moment to review 2713:. Please take a moment to review 2603:. Please take a moment to review 2493:. Please take a moment to review 2228:More explanation would be helpful 817:Posting Fee in US Dollars or Yen? 472:Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject Japan 2977:Mid-importance Baseball articles 1715:Nomura-client" - and remove dash 1322: 1305: 1292: 1279: 1262: 1249: 1232: 1219: 1173: 1153: 1137: 1105: 1083: 1060: 1048: 1027: 1011: 999: 942: 926: 718: 403: 393: 366: 346:the Japanese baseball task force 268: 258: 231: 200: 52: 19: 3002:FA-Class Japan-related articles 1643:, would help to alleviate this. 1049: 737:Berg, Ted (December 19, 2008). 492:This article has been rated as 321:This article has been rated as 2697:14:14, 30 September 2017 (UTC) 2587:15:38, 24 September 2017 (UTC) 2174:18:05, 30 September 2009 (UTC) 2153:15:39, 29 September 2009 (UTC) 2139:15:05, 28 September 2009 (UTC) 2117:14:34, 28 September 2009 (UTC) 2087:14:26, 28 September 2009 (UTC) 115: 1: 2997:WikiProject Baseball articles 2807:01:02, 25 December 2017 (UTC) 757:Paine, Neil (July 26, 2021). 527:WikiProject Japan to do list: 343:This article is supported by 304:Template:WikiProject Baseball 295:and see a list of open tasks. 2967:Old requests for peer review 2266:16:10, 9 December 2012 (UTC) 2243:17:25, 6 December 2012 (UTC) 2223:21:27, 29 October 2012 (UTC) 1174: 1154: 1138: 1106: 1084: 1061: 1028: 1012: 1000: 927: 516:Japanese baseball task force 2917:16:29, 1 January 2018 (UTC) 1856:sure is. added that extra 0 1711:"signing rights to another 649:to articles that need them. 588:Featured content candidates 3033: 3012:WikiProject Japan articles 2992:Japanese baseball articles 2972:FA-Class Baseball articles 2880:(last update: 5 June 2024) 2816:Hello fellow Wikipedians, 2770:(last update: 5 June 2024) 2706:Hello fellow Wikipedians, 2660:(last update: 5 June 2024) 2596:Hello fellow Wikipedians, 2550:(last update: 5 June 2024) 2486:Hello fellow Wikipedians, 2013:16:48, 20 April 2009 (UTC) 1990:15:22, 18 April 2009 (UTC) 998:A. References to sources: 873:12:33, 31 March 2008 (UTC) 855:05:48, 31 March 2008 (UTC) 839:14:57, 11 April 2007 (UTC) 583: 498:project's importance scale 475:Template:WikiProject Japan 327:project's importance scale 173:Featured article candidate 2199:00:26, 1 March 2011 (UTC) 1673:oops, changed to Japanese 1129:to illustrate the topic? 811:18:26, 6 April 2007 (UTC) 787:15:40, 6 April 2007 (UTC) 522: 513: 491: 388: 342: 320: 253: 226: 182: 71: 67: 41:Knowledge (XXG) community 2938:04:26, 1 July 2024 (UTC) 2464:20:49, 18 May 2015 (UTC) 2443:16:35, 13 May 2015 (UTC) 2428:13:10, 13 May 2015 (UTC) 1901:Link "human trafficking" 1418:23:23, 19 May 2008 (UTC) 1393:23:13, 19 May 2008 (UTC) 1375:22:59, 19 May 2008 (UTC) 1350:22:48, 19 May 2008 (UTC) 1202:21:40, 19 May 2008 (UTC) 891:07:08, 5 June 2008 (UTC) 685:Japanese Knowledge (XXG) 625:Good article nominations 61:Today's featured article 2812:External links modified 2702:External links modified 2592:External links modified 2482:External links modified 2397:12:18, 7 May 2015 (UTC) 2379:11:58, 7 May 2015 (UTC) 2356:02:22, 7 May 2015 (UTC) 2342:01:48, 7 May 2015 (UTC) 2320:18:26, 6 May 2015 (UTC) 2301:18:15, 6 May 2015 (UTC) 2066:22:23, 9 May 2009 (UTC) 2043:20:28, 9 May 2009 (UTC) 1579:20:19, 9 May 2009 (UTC) 920:reasonably well written 727:This article has been 561: 510: 478:Japan-related articles 339: 208:This article is rated 1828:you're right, changed 1042:broad in its coverage 560: 509: 338: 212:on Knowledge (XXG)'s 2861:regular verification 2751:regular verification 2641:regular verification 2531:regular verification 1024:No original research 683:an article from the 665:Japan-related stubs. 439:relevant discussions 284:WikiProject Baseball 116:Good article nominee 2851:After February 2018 2741:After February 2018 2631:After February 2018 2521:After February 2018 1880:"nor did the union 1134:fair use rationales 1104:No edit wars, etc: 695:unassessed articles 443:lists of open tasks 433:, please visit the 2905:InternetArchiveBot 2856:InternetArchiveBot 2795:InternetArchiveBot 2746:InternetArchiveBot 2685:InternetArchiveBot 2636:InternetArchiveBot 2575:InternetArchiveBot 2526:InternetArchiveBot 1641:Baseball-Reference 1047:A. 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