1198:', are opinion pieces, and are clearly marked as such a the top of the article (where it says 'December 12, 2018 in Culture, Opinion, Politics'). We can use opinion pieces for the opinion of the author, if that opinion is notable, but we cannot use it to factually say that 'This policy sparked unified outrage and an atmosphere of mistrust amongst Patreon users.' when this is really just some guy in Canada getting upset. There may be cases where the Post Millennial can be used for factual content; however, care should be taken. It was only established last year, and I would not say that this gives it time yet to be well-established or have a reputation for factual reporting, which are things we look for when we determine the reliability of a source.. It does publish a list of editors there, which is encouraging, but unless you'd like to take this to
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2002:. And it is important not to add one's own interpretations to primary material or go beyond what is stated in the source. For instance, "...they do not necessarily require but rather suggest..." appears to be interpretation of primary text not found in the original reference. For evaluating reliability of a source, the fact that it appears on wikipedia in a handful of articles is not a good argument--lots of chaff gets in, and we are having a conversation about the current article, not any other one.
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get dealing with the alt-right." this was not an attack against black people but against self confessed white supremacists. the gay interracial porn he sent to the alt-right member is what got Carl banned from twitter several month before. I've edited that segment to show the remarks while they maybe offensive to black people were in fact made at white racists. this was done to add clarity to the events as the alt-right have used this to deplatform Carl from
Patreon--
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these are not reliable sources. I would recommend you take a look at
Knowledge's Reliable Sources policy if you have any questions and direct them to any administrators before you decide to delete important information like the one mentioned prior. My biggest suggestion to you is to review the editing guidelines as well as remove any personal bias you might have in favor or against a particular entity with its respective wikipedia page and mentions. Thank you.
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1922:. Knowledge is an encyclopedia, which means that it does not synthesize information between sources. It only reports on what other reliable sources say. A Justice Department resource is placed in opposition to an interpretation of primary documents on Patreon guidelines. You would need a reliable source that directly makes claims, not just juxtapose commentary in Patreon guidelines with Justice Department remarks.
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2278:; other than the Patreon link itself verifying the account, the other sources don't discuss Patreon so there's no basis for singling out this one account over all of the others (I'm sure there are many other Patreon accounts that would raise eyebrows, there's no reason this one would be worthy of note if reliable sources aren't mentioning it as being worthy of note).
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given the lack of reliable sources discussing the content. For 144.130.166.10 my recommendation would be to try to find reliable sources that discuss the material added and to present them on the talk page and explain how/why they show that the content added is relevant in the scope of this
Knowledge
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They speak for themselves regarding their allowance and prohibition of child sexual abuse material respectively. As for
SausageRoll and Lulz, these websites have been cited on other Knowledge pages so I would also recommend you hold the other contributers to the same standard if you're going to claim
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revert? I'm just not certain what aspect you're objecting to. Is it that the
Allsides blog is a poor source? Or that the description of Allsup doesn't follow NPOV guidelines? Or something else? I don't feel strongly about this revert, given the weak sourcing, but I was curious to hear your reasoning.
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here is a clip of the actual event after being harassed by the alt-right for months he went of a stream with several alt-right members where he said "you are acting like a bunch of N*****s, just so you know. you act like white N*****s, exactly how you describe black people acting is the impression I
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I thought you said that. I have never claimed that; in fact, I have been saying that he was banned because of a campaign to remove alt-right and far-right users from the website. You were the one bringing up the racial aspect, so I assumed that you were saying that his ban had something to do with
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for a creator to be on patreon vs. being directly funded via donate-button? why pay shares to patreon? I heard on youtube that most of the patreons do not find their candidate across patreon but otherwise, like via youtube... so why not present yourself there via a link to a self-presentation for
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So they have hired 77 new people after firing the 30, and 229 new people after firing the 36 - on top of ordinary employee circulation. Layoffs are not fun, and layoffs are events while steady recruitment is not, but a section on staff size might give a more balanced view than what we have now.
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1) Reference to reliable sources is extremely important, especially for contentious material. The two non-primary sources references to support this material are
Sausage Roll and Lulz. Both of these are low-tier sites at best a far as I can tell. Some better-quality sources for internet- and
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added details which are not supported by the attached source. Citations are not the same as attribution, and misplaced citations are especially not attribution. If you still think this belongs, for some reason, you'll need to do a lot better than that. Benjamin still has many platforms for
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of his racist and homophobic slurs is a justification for his actions, I haven't seen a single reliable source which explains why. He seems to think this is significant, but even his ideological allies have had a hard time supporting this. I've looked for sources explaining why this would
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I just had a look myself - and while I shouldn't _have_ to say this, I'll state up front that I am not a fan of
Patreon's rather slippery methods of dealing with issues by changing their terms of service ex post facto - but that said, the controversy section is far out of proportion to
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Just hearing about this - looking at the text "On average, patrons donate $ 7 per creation" I find my self wondering whether that's EACH patron or ALL patrons. ALL patrons, that sounds a teeny bit low, but EACH patron is unimaginably high - seems like it could be worded better...(?)
1590:, the question "what's the use of it?" seems to be somehow not alien to the topic... so some answer to the question "why should I do this and not something else?" should be provided in the article, imho... so: what are the advantages of patreon over other (crowd-)funding-solutions?
1675:
I can not find here or on the patreon-page an answer to the question what a creator does if s/he works with several languages? does s/he have to open different accounts or is there an option to present yourself in different languages within one account resp. one ID? thanx!
1871:. I notice that you all have recently contributed to some content that talks about underage pornography on Patreon, and that for three of you these are your first contributions on your Knowledge accounts. I'm hoping to discuss a few reasons why I removed this content.
1227:
I am assuming that "Harris" is Sam Harris. There is a sam harris wiki page - may I suggest that you: 1) add his full name (e.g. Sam Harris) 2) add square brackets around his name to make it a link 3) add a short description of who he is - something like:
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The article doesn't mention what kind of organization
Patreon is: Is it a charity or a company? If it is a company, how does the business model work? Als all of the funding going to the artist, and if not: How much does Patreon charge for its services?
1649:, for your willingness to help, but I know my way around in wikipedia since quite a while... my question was directed to people who know patreon (the logic behind it, the sources) better than me and are willing to provide enlightening content!
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Not sure if it's notable - but
Patreon suspended a 7 year old account the week of the Russian invasion of Ukraine - Save-Life, NGO raising funds for the military - Patreon saying they do not allow offensive military funding on their platform.
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I hope this is all clear and that this explains why there is a fairly high hurdle to adding this content to the
Patreon Knowledge article. My biggest suggestion to you is to find reliable sources reflecting on these claims.
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Benjamin is an English liberal. He was banned by Patreon for insulting members of the alt-right. These kinds of basic factual errors undermine Knowledge as a credible and politically neutral source for information.
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2) There is a distinction between primary and secondary sources. You reference the Patreon guidelines directly to source two paragraphs. This is not the best form, because it is unclear why these sections have the
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If you absolutely insist this perspective needs to be here, add it with attribution to Benjamin's own video, and according to due weight. Do not misrepresent the source by implying that it treated it seriously.
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This all sounds fair. I suspect that some of the material cut from the Patron page could get moved to the pages of individuals involved, where the granular detail will be more relevant to them in particular.
1224:"In December 2018, Patreon banned users Milo Yiannopoulos, Carl Benjamin and James Allsup as part of a wider campaign to remove alt-right and far-right users. Harris finally deleted his account in protest. "
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Even if we accept this summary, which is dubious, it is badly written and explains nothing. This argument makes no sense, and every reliable source I have seen ignores it or flatly rejects it as a nit-pick.
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Reason why Patrons need to be along with Backers to help out together. Isn't there Patreon-Powered Kickstater-Funded events in PatreCon? Was D.Rrip a child of Patreon and Kickstarter? Then explain please.
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He further argued he could not share the homophobia nor the racism since he used the politically incorrect words to subversively mock their hateful ideology, implying they should behave in a civil manner.
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Completely false. Carl was banned for making racist comments against black people; just because members of the alt-right reported him for those racist comments does not change the fact that he made them.
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1271:. Remember, associating people with controversial(/hate) groups like the Alt-Right movement is potentially libelious, it requires good sources. Certainly better than one article by an internet tabloid.
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Knowledge is an encyclopedia; it isn't a how-to guide, nor do we provide guidance to readers on whether product X is better or worse than product Y (or path X vs path Y or concept X vs concept Y, etc).
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him sending interracial pornography to an alt-right person, which he did according to one of the sources in his Knowledge article (or the talk page of his article) which I'm not going to look for now.
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and I am commenting in response to that request. I have never edited this article before nor have I (to the best of my knowledge) interacted with either editor. The dispute seems to be initially over
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I hate telling people what to do (when I am capable of making the changes myself), but I certainly understand the page being locked given the current controversies surround this topic
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Your revert added information which was not supported by the attached source. Nowhere does it mention them being "stalkers", which is... true? False? Irrelvant? Why would that matter?
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Greetings, all. Patreon is not a consumer products corporation, so its logo is of minor interest. We should of course, have it displayed in the article as it currently stands but
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The first two come from Patreon's website as well as the Department of Justice website. Both are primary sources because they are being cited directly from the websites which are:
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in terms of the company's totality of history. There's an awful lot of monologue going on in it, in detail that is not necessary to get the facts across, which amplifies the
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to be discussed rather than any other part of the guidelines. The best path to include these details is to show that they've been mentioned by reliable secondary sources.
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Okay, so you didn't remove it, and you did it with discussion, and it's well sourced. Explain to me again about how much you understand our BLP policies, master.
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Even if material comes from a primary source, it is often not worth putting in an article if not discussed in secondary sources. This issue is described in
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1190:. Your addition of this as a source has been removed a few times. I thought I'd explain in further detail why this is not a reliable source. Articles like
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Patreon updated their logo again at some point (sometime after 2021 although I'm having trouble narrowing down when exactly it changed), and now their
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What does this have to do with this article? Are you proposing changes to the article, or just speculating about the matter? If the latter, please see
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Comparing this to Trump seems absurdly inflammatory and unhelpful. Coverage of Benjamin ain't comparable to coverage of Trump, and everybody knows it.
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Can you please provide the reliable source that says he was banned from Patreon on December 6, 2018 for sending interracial porn to alt-right users?
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The policy is: "Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced should be removed immediately and without discussion" (
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1383:. It's like saying Trump used a racial slur ("Pocahontas") against Elizabeth Warren, without saying that she is not in fact Native American.
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It's not clear what the average donation is for the recurrent funding model, and it probably should be updated to a more recent analysis.--
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Enough to know you can't associate someone with a hate group based on one article on a tabloid web. What solution do you propose, then? --
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1903:. Unless a very good argument is given, the current secondary sources are simply not sufficient to add this contentious content. See
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1619:, you're welcome and encouraged to add them to the article, within our golden confines of notability, reliability, etc etc. Cheers.
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The user ZimZalaBim has mass deleted well cited information on multiple controversies of Patreon without giving good reasons.
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focus on a particular concern some might have. Look at the language used, and you might understand that some of it is very
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You stop! You are the one making changes/mass deleting large amounts of the article without consulting the talk page!
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Just because Vox says he is. For clarity, read Knowledge's own article on him, which presents a more balanced view.
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The link for the first reference is incorrect. It includes a forward slash at the end. It should not. Correct URL is:
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by suggesting there is a problem with Patreon hosting accounts that seem pro-Russia or whatever. We need independent
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If the source cited was Patreon and not Vice, we wouldn't be having this conversation. But fine, I'm dropping it.--
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and arbitrary commentary on the fact the platform has included content that might seem problematic to some due to
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D.Rip, a Kickstarter clone of Patreon is closing down in Q4 2019. Can Patreon work together with Kickstarter?
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He was banned for repeatedly yelling the n-word. Please spend at least 15 seconds googling before you type.
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that sending interracial porn to alt-right users constitutes "making racist comments against black people".
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an IP who included various content that I removed with edit summaries explaining. Much of this seems to be
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keep in mind that the list doesn't include any of the 18+ content creators, who are very successful.
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https://www.cernovich.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/29.07.2020-Denial-of-Preliminary-Injunction.pdf
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https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/15/technology/how-the-internet-is-saving-culture-not-killing-it.html
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it is crucial to mention the whole context because Benjamin said it, and it has to be covered per
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source by someone apparently working at Patreon and that scenario is likely not the case (because
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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See my note above - just becuase you have citations doesn't mean it is appropriate to include. --
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Much of the section is simply pushback to Patreon's policies and enforcement of those policies.
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Your edits are nothing short of disruptive and were made before consulting the talk page!
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on the web. To participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the
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Should we start writing a piece in this article regarding patreon - source links here:
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The following references may be useful when improving this article in the future:
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is concerned, its inclusion in the article does not appear to be warranted per
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00:30, 22 September 2023 (UTC) An additional note - we really cannot engage in
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seems that lots of people are migrating from patreon to subscribestar (.adult)
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The first paragraph seems UNDUE as written, and the POV might be reconsidered.
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Thanks for responding. I should have left a comment here to explain further.
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for the creator to be on patreon vs. being directly funded via donate-button
656:) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other
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Tell that to Patreon. We're only reporting what Patreon did and why. See
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1738:. Mind explaining what you mean by 'POV issue' in your edit summary of
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I didn't look closely, but the section looks rather poorly sourced. --
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I don't think even non-opinion pieces from the PM could we used here.
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Bullshit. The source cited doesn't mention that anywhere. Please read
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Please note my recent edits that removed some of this content per
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self-aggrandizement, so Knowledge doesn't need to be one of them.
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It was added with attribution to his video before you removed it.
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request that the central "p" be rendered in only a single color.
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September 2022: "80 people, representing about 17% of its staff"
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https://blog.patreon.com/en-GB/on-the-removal-of-come-back-alive
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Now, that said, if you can find reliable published sources that
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=30&v=4ZIovwrnPWc
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Though a primary source Patreon recently released this summary
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It's not okay to link to the site which the article is about?
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There are a few issues with your claim regarding the sources:
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The article says "Patreon takes a 5% commission on pledges."
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Knowledge:Requested articles/Business and economics/Companies
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Just because you do not like it does not mean it breaks POV!
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for such controversial information about a living person.
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https://www.wired.com/story/patreon-porn-piracy-yiffparty/
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This isn't a platform for Benjamin's deflections. If the
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The last sentence, as of this writing, is a nonsequiter:
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https://patreonhq.com/hate-speech-on-patreon-a9026e52c2cf
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The second sentence of the second paragraph seems UNDUE.
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https://twitter.com/Cernovich/status/1288868346859905024
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Duplicate talk page section. Please keep discussion to
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I rephrased a line in the "Controversy" section as per
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Further paragraphs appear to have similar problems. --
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funding (patreon-style) and payment-solutions? thanx!
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2) prosecuting entities for selling child pornography
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Why did not Patreon get partnership with Kickstarter?
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Discussion should continue there, not here. Thanks,
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What does this have to do with the Patreon article?
194:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
2377:Consult the talk page before doing mass deletions!
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Regarding the revert, the reference isn't reliable.
2431:April 2021: "36 employees or 13% of its workforce"
2428:April 2020: "30 employees or 13% of its workforce"
1767:"Controversy" sections are problematic in general.
1325:for a ton of these – that's not a BLP violation.
1816:. I may take a stab at trimming proportionally.
1416:hypothetically matter, but I haven't found any.
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2322:Mass deletion of cited info by user ZimZalaBim
1617:have made claims that X is better/worse than Y
2115:, but the inclusion here seems really POV. --
1235:has closed his Patreon account is protest...
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2580:Knowledge articles that use American English
2438:A bit of quick math (and rounding) gives us
1095:All good! The recent changes are excellent.
2555:C-Class Websites articles of Top-importance
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301:Category:Company articles needing attention
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1918:3) Finally, it is important not to do
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1196:Patreon betrays the trust of its users
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2565:Unknown-importance Computing articles
2448:September 2022: Firing 80 out of 470.
764:How Patreon Creators Are Making Money
664:, this should not be changed without
339:Help expand stub articles located at
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2209:, as noted in the edit summaries. --
1875:technology-related content might be
1231:"Popular author and content creator
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2505:Top-importance podcasting articles
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2445:April 2021: Firing 36 out of 277.
2442:April 2020: Firing 30 out of 230.
2229:that suggest this is an issue. --
1405:There are multiple problems here.
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2412:22:50, 21 September 2023 (UTC)
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2043:Russia and Ukraine Crisis 2022
1841:12:40, 28 September 2020 (UTC)
1826:19:56, 27 September 2020 (UTC)
1803:18:45, 27 September 2020 (UTC)
1783:18:02, 27 September 2020 (UTC)
1753:17:16, 27 September 2020 (UTC)
1217:Last line needs some massaging
850:Carl Benjamin is NOT alt-right
565:Knowledge:WikiProject Websites
470:Knowledge:WikiProject Internet
354:Tag company articles with the
211:Template:WikiProject Companies
1:
2540:WikiProject Internet articles
2289:aren't reliable sources (see
2095:00:49, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
2038:02:29, 19 February 2021 (UTC)
2012:20:23, 13 December 2020 (UTC)
1993:19:25, 13 December 2020 (UTC)
1938:17:53, 13 December 2020 (UTC)
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1513:12:27, 8 September 2019 (UTC)
1356:17:26, 23 December 2018 (UTC)
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1257:13:25, 18 December 2018 (UTC)
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941:22:33, 17 December 2018 (UTC)
927:22:02, 17 December 2018 (UTC)
901:13:51, 17 December 2018 (UTC)
886:00:13, 17 December 2018 (UTC)
870:20:28, 11 December 2018 (UTC)
607:This article is supported by
568:Template:WikiProject Websites
473:Template:WikiProject Internet
464:and see a list of open tasks.
202:and see a list of open tasks.
97:and see a list of open tasks.
2463:08:06, 22 October 2023 (UTC)
2374:Your opinion is not the law!
1962:1) selling child pornography
1691:Patreon Lawsuits August 2020
1686:05:01, 22 January 2020 (UTC)
1659:02:01, 23 January 2020 (UTC)
1629:05:46, 22 January 2020 (UTC)
1600:04:58, 22 January 2020 (UTC)
1578:17:55, 21 January 2020 (UTC)
1559:03:13, 21 January 2020 (UTC)
803:14:35, 25 October 2016 (UTC)
741:Avg Pledge per creation: $ 7
245:WikiProject Companies To-do:
2500:C-Class podcasting articles
2333:§ Recent removal of content
1951:I appreciate your feedback.
1135:01:44, 8 January 2019 (UTC)
776:05:21, 4 October 2014 (UTC)
754:16:50, 3 October 2014 (UTC)
733:13:09, 3 October 2014 (UTC)
91:podcast-related information
2596:
2560:C-Class Computing articles
1764:As for the section itself:
1724:03:17, 2 August 2020 (UTC)
1489:22:59, 27 April 2019 (UTC)
1453:08:41, 27 April 2019 (UTC)
1432:22:06, 26 April 2019 (UTC)
1400:21:57, 26 April 2019 (UTC)
496:project's importance scale
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129:project's importance scale
2545:C-Class Websites articles
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2423:Layoffs and percentages
2260:Knowledge:Third opinion
1730:Explanation for revert?
845:00:00, 4 May 2017 (UTC)
2570:All Computing articles
949:and don't ever cite a
743:
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341:Category:Company stubs
82:WikiProject Podcasting
28:This article is rated
2575:All Websites articles
2467:
2398:new talk page heading
2396:Please do not make a
1907:for more background.
951:self-published source
739:
610:WikiProject Computing
602:
378:requests for comments
369:WikiProject Companies
191:WikiProject Companies
1920:WP:Original research
1887:(less preferred) or
1671:different languages?
738:from the reference:
662:relevant style guide
658:varieties of English
548:WikiProject Websites
453:WikiProject Internet
1905:WP:Reliable Sources
1743:Thanks in advance.
1697:Court case writeup:
1499:D.Rip closing down?
1323:Twitter suspensions
999:report otherwise).
974:Again. 15 seconds.
660:. According to the
109:podcasting articles
2299:WP:BUSINESSINSIDER
1182:The Post Millenial
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2306:article. -
2151:Please stop
2077:Logo update
1883:, or maybe
1861:Brazilnut03
1586:well, dear
1348:Psychotic17
1309:Psychotic17
1280:Psychotic17
1097:Theintrepid
1056:Theintrepid
979:Theintrepid
933:Theintrepid
893:Theintrepid
725:Brettpeirce
639:written in
2494:Categories
2105:I reverted
2059:Envelopery
2026:some infos
1889:TechCrunch
1818:Anastrophe
1795:Hipal/Ronz
1775:Hipal/Ronz
1647:Anastrophe
1621:Anastrophe
1588:Anastrophe
1570:Anastrophe
1568:. Thanks.
1520:Anastrophe
1233:Sam Harris
1188:Logarettus
1140:References
993:WP:PRIMARY
906:It's your
837:Brad in sf
828:References
795:WaxTadpole
746:Lemnaminor
100:Podcasting
59:Podcasting
2478:The Gnome
2455:Palnatoke
2256:Response:
2161:ridden --
2000:wp:weight
1943:Response:
1913:WP:weight
1476:This edit
1466:This edit
1276:WP:SOURCE
991:That's a
524:Computing
205:Companies
196:companies
152:Companies
2067:contribs
2055:unsigned
1989:contribs
1977:unsigned
1814:WP:UNDUE
1712:unsigned
1481:Grayfell
1424:Grayfell
1375:Grayfell
1245:unsigned
1241:Cheers
1064:contribs
1052:unsigned
858:unsigned
768:PaleAqua
708:done. --
654:traveled
562:Websites
553:websites
519:Websites
467:Internet
458:Internet
414:Internet
362:template
321:Maintain
295:Copyedit
87:podcasts
1981:VCVgall
1869:Binho24
1865:Fisham0
1857:VCVgall
1645:thanx,
1546:benefit
1535:benefit
1368:Crucial
1200:WP:BLPN
815:Gendalv
650:defense
589:on the
494:on the
376:Answer
308:Infobox
232:on the
127:on the
30:C-class
2303:WP:DUE
2293:) and
2291:WP:SPS
2276:WP:DUE
2199:WP:POV
1867:, and
1810:WP:DUE
1443:umbolo
1413:target
1390:umbolo
1332:umbolo
1269:WP:BLP
1263:WP:BLP
1081:umbolo
1034:umbolo
1006:umbolo
960:umbolo
947:WP:BLP
917:umbolo
809:top 10
358:portal
282:Assess
36:scale.
2308:Aoidh
2207:WP:RS
2203:WP:OR
2155:undue
2109:undue
2004:Jlevi
1930:Jlevi
1899:, or
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1745:Jlevi
1736:Hipal
1734:Heya
646:color
347:Other
334:Stubs
2482:talk
2459:talk
2408:talk
2383:talk
2363:Zala
2348:talk
2312:talk
2295:this
2287:this
2285:and
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713:talk
89:and
2366:Bim
2360:Zim
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2232:Zim
2218:Bim
2212:Zim
2170:Bim
2164:Zim
2124:Bim
2118:Zim
1901:Fox
1897:BBC
1855:Hi
1449:^^^
1396:^^^
1338:^^^
1194:, '
1186:Hi
1087:^^^
1040:^^^
1012:^^^
966:^^^
923:^^^
700:Old
581:Top
486:Mid
224:Mid
119:Top
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