Talk:Patrick Moore/Archive 1

667:" went on to study at the prestigious Imperial College London departments of Physics and Mathematics, and was part way through a Ph.D. programme at Imperial College, studying reflected light from interstellar dust and the velocity of dust in the plane of the Solar System, when Queen became successful. He abandoned his astronomy doctorate - temporarily, as it later turned out - but did co-author two scientific research papers: MgI Emission in the Night-Sky Spectrum and An Investigation of the Motion of Zodiacal Dust Particles (Part I), which were based on Brian's observations in Tenerife. As of 2007, he is working on the updating and completion of his Ph.D. He was awarded the honorary degree of Doctor of Science (D.Sc.) in November 2002 by the University of Hertfordshire, although it is not typically customary in the United Kingdom for honorary doctors to be called "Doctor" 31: 353:

show, then a paragraph covering the other interests, ie his novels, right-wing views and musical interests. Perhaps a paragraph about acting in the middle if there is enough to say (that likely should be discussed in biography rather than popular culture). Missing stuff... oh, whatever you can find, i don't know enough about him and the article is too unstructured to really say what is missing, but there is just not

1876: 1852: 1838: 1806: 1781: 1753: 1743: 1678: 1664: 1650: 1477: 1443: 3881:"The difference between an amateur and a professional is the difference between a wife and a prostitute: the former does it out of love, the latter for money." I was under the impression that Schopenhauer or some other intellectual colossus said that, but cannot trace the quotation or anything like it either in my collection of the German philosopher's works or online. I think I must have said it. 3114:- Apart from the fact that we deal in verifiability not truth, no one has actually presented any evidence that he did not hold the rank of Flt Lt. The idea that Moore only held VRT Flt Lt rank is interesting but again there is no evidence. If we had contratadictory evidence then we would either describe the conflict or omit it entirely. The WP is not 4121:

clearly that many of the details about Moore's life cited in this article are at best embellished or undocumented, and in many cases demonstrably untrue. Moore's story about his fiancée, for instance, was almost certainly concocted long after WW2, and records show that he left the RAF as a Flying Officer with no evidence that he ever flew over Germany.

1251: 2112:: it can mean "a brief or trivial item of news or information" (so far so good, for our purposes), but it can also mean "an assumption or speculation that is reported or repeated so often that it becomes accepted as fact" (and it's completely unacceptable for any Knowledge (XXG) article to contribute to such a state of affairs). That's why 2464:

Mare Orientale and transient lunar phenomenon seems to be controversial. Perhaps that is my fault, in the book he claims to have named them but not to have been the first to observe them. They are pretty obscure scientific matters, but if I gave the impression that he was taking credit for something he didn't do then I apologize.--

531:

of study of the heavens, and Patrick Moore is a recognised and respected expert in this field - as a former amateur astronomer myself I know a little about it. Moore was also president of the British Astronomical Association (which claims to be the voice of amateur astronomy in the UK). I hope this clears this matter up. –

113:

up. Assuming I'm not unique, the flash animation may be the way many non-UK residents come to hear of this fascinating gentleman. I myself intend no disrespect, and the animation itself doesn't appear to do so either, although not being British myself I admit it's possible I'm missing some subtle bit of inuendo.

3605:

For what it's worth, five years ago I learnt that the first girl I ever fell in love with had been dead 20 years, which upset me terribly. She was only 26. Like the mysterious Lorna, she was a nurse at the time of her death. Now, I would not be at all pleased with anybody who suggested I had invented

3533:

and could not be included in the article (the discovery of there being "no 'Lorna' of a suitable age dying in 1943" is your own research). We have to go off information from Moore's autobiography and third party sources. I think there is an issue in this article with an over-reliance on 'first-party'

3468:

So I have removed the erroneous references to this book; the source reference must be incorrect. Ned Sherrin was a stickler for accuracy, and, for example, dismissive of Stephen Fry for oft failing in this respect - I am sure the above reference is true: Willie Rushton was both author and illustrator

3270:

The obituary in the Telegraph says the following: “At the end of 1941 he joined the RAF to train for aircrew duties, and during 1943 left for Canada for training as a navigator. He was commissioned in June 1944 and completed his training at a bomber conversion unit at Lossiemouth in northern Scotland

3253:

Broadsheet newspapers are considered reliable sources and we do not know what research the authors of the articles did. Additionally some seem too ready to dismiss Moore's own words. When Moore put the statement that he rose to the rank of flt lt into the public domain it inevitably invited scrutiny

2463:

I took that the common sense approach that the best person to approach for accurate information on the life of Patrick Moore was Patrick Moore himself. I felt him to be a trustworthy individual, and I had no reason to distrust any of the claims made in his books, none of which were controversial. The

530:

I agree with nearly all of what you say, Dontdoit, but you misunderstand the meaning of amateur astronomy. It is a completely different discipline from that of the professional astronomer, and is nothing to do with whether, or not, the practitioner is paid. Amateur astronomy involves a different kind

337:

The tag you used says that the rationale is on the Talk Page. There was no rationale on the Talk Page. I have a silly question, why instead of just going around announcing there is work to be done, don't you actually make an effort to reformat the article yourself? Perhaps you could even research the

213:

look past that one facet to an individual who has a tremendous raport with young people and infectious enthusiasm. PM is certainly one of the most important figures in popular astronomy in the UK and his huge body of work and positive service to popular astronomy surely outweighs his eccentricities?

4069:

was saying, and it is definitely not a facetious point, is that as the book has not yet been published, we have no idea as to its quality and relevance to Patrick Moore, just assumptions and guesswork on your part. While it could perhaps be a masterpiece full of interesting new information about its

3643:

It seems likely that Sir Patrick Moore was of Jewish descent – one quarter German Jewish to be precise. A little online sleuthing on my part in genealogical databases has established that his paternal grandmother was one Célina Emilie Moore, née Trachsel, which is an Ashkenazic surname. She was born

3296:

While Patrick Moore was undoubtedly a dedicated and highly experienced lunar observer, his claims that his Moon mapping was used in the US and Russian space programmes are, it seems, self-imagineering. Chuck Wood, who was part of NASA’s pre-Apollo mapping of the Moon, has specifically denied Moore’s

492:

Patrick Moore is a pre Apollo mapper of the moon, has made numerous astronomical discoveries, has written numerous books about astronomy (published by real publishers, not vanity ones). He has hosted a very long running scientific TV programme dedicated to astronomy. You cannot seriously suggest

403:

Alright, I've done some more cleanup, removed a lot of uninteresting or contextless stuff and combined and moved a lot of stuff about to try and beef it up a bit (and cut down on the number of paragraphs with just "In 1970 Moore did this. In 2001 he was awarded that." stuff) and tried to group stuff

352:

and see the difference in format and flow. The main problem is that the article reads very choppily, a list of facts rather than an encylopedia article, particularly the biography section. I would start with a long paragraph about his youth and the War, and then a long one about the astronomy and TV

4148:

I think that approach (a) is a better way so that people don't relegate the new info to a unread section. Perhaps a short sentence or two suggesting the theme that Patrick Moore may have embellished or made false statements in his autobiography, which is also pretty well the sole source for many of

4124:

The question is how to approach this in the article. I don't think it should boldly state details about Moore's life that have been shown to very likely be untrue, or at the very least it should caveat any such assertions. At the same time I appreciate that Mobberley's book, however well-researched

3597:

program and who later had the pleasure of meeting the man himself on many occasions, I too have often wondered about his Lorna – wanted to know a bit more about her, to see her photograph even. But attempts on my part to identify her in online genealogical databases have always proved futile. And I

3544:

Well it is the 'Jimmy Saville problem' isn't it - so eminent and such a national treasure that no one is going to say he was a liar 6 months after his death. Actually it is perfectly clear to me that he enjoyed making things up - Cedric Allingham for example. Very convenient to explain the somewhat

3396:

With respect to Sir Patrick's Air Force service: when he was the subject of an episode of "This is your life" many years ago, we learned of him saving a bomber crew member's life by throwing him out the aicraft when he was unable to "bale-out" by himself (I can't remember how the man came to open

3044:

here. Moore's own words were "I joined the RAF as a navigator with Bomber Command (Flight-Lieutenant)" so unless we have concrete evidence to the contrary (the London Gazette evidence is suggestive but not conclusive and it can often be incomplete) then I think we can stick with some form of words

2187:

Surely the article would be better illustrated with a few related images? As is, all it has is a somewhat unsympathetic picture of the man himself. I'd love to go about rectifying this problem, but my wikipedia experience consists of a couple of minor edits about a year ago, and as a result I'm not

2116:

cannot be sidestepped. But even if it could be established that he made such a claim, we're left with another problem, namely the claim's implausibility. Orville Wright lived to 1948 and was hardly a recluse. While it's not impossible, it seems quite improbable that only one person met both him and

963:

I see. It is not unimportant to the East Sussex Astronomical Society. He does not often lend his name in this way and the Society was delighted when he accepted the invitation to be the Society's Hononary President. I am not aware that he has done this with any other Astronomical Society. Also

816:

I too have a copy of: "Bureaucrats: How to annoy them" - the real name of author is Willie Rushton: the wiki reference was in error, I am certain that the late Ned Sherrin (who was never known to have misquoted anyone, nor opened his mouth to utter the smallest detail of any story in error) can be

235:

They only skew your view if you strongly disagree with his politics. Clearly his political views are important to him, and cannot be ignored as he was actually the chairman of a political party. He spent a fair few chapters of his autobiography banging on about politics. Besides, his eccentricities

112:

I reinstated the external link to the "Patrick Moore plays the Xylophone" flash animation. It's consistently one of the top ten results for a Google search for "Patrick Moore" (depending on the exact search terms -- it's #3 for "Patrick Moore UK"), and is in fact the reason I came here to look him

79:

Here in Nottingham (UK) I researched a local amateur astronomer named Thomas Bush (1839-1928) who spent much of his life building telescopes. To be brief, his biggest telescope was a 24 inch reflector that was set up at Fredrick Hanbury's private observatory in East Grinsted. It was still in use in

4120:

has now been published. Although less formal in tone than many biographies, it is extensively researched and the author (who worked with Sir Patrick Moore for many years) makes extensive efforts to research the truth behind many of the anecdotes Moore told about himself. Mobberley establishes very

3799:

The term "amateur astronomer" has a very precise definition. It is used to define those who, rather than obtaining a degree or other qualification before making astronomy their profession in a university, observatory or other institution, instead make observations from their own small telescope at

2093:

The article already mentions his claim from his Autobiography of meeting Orville Wright and as the BBC's astronomy and space presenter, it would be highly likely that he met Neil Armstrong. However, there is no cited claim by Moore, or anyone else that I know of, that he is the only person to have

1206:

on several occasions, throughout the 1990s and early 2000s, if he would be willing to take over The Sky at Night when the time came. John Mason was the co-editor of Patrick Moore's Yearbook of Astronomy for 10 years, a regular guest on The Sky at Night, as well as being a well known speaker in his

290:

The usual distinction for a professional, as opposed to an amateur, is that you are paid to do the work. In this case Moore is the quintessential amateur in that he does/did his astronomy for love of it and would probably have always done it regardless of lack of payment, but he has found a way of

3301:

And on the H-ASTRO discussion list, Soviet astronomer Alexander Gurshtein has posted: “Sir Patrick Moore was valued very much in the former Soviet Union. Some of his books were translated from English into Russian. But never his lunar maps were used for space photos interpretation. By the way, he

3198:

It seems the claim is based on Moore's autobiography without any confirmation quoted from any other source. The discrepancy between the official record and Moore's own writings indicates that perhaps the claim should be deleted because Morore's autobiography annot be considered a Reliable Source.

3077:

The fact that an independent publisher has reproduced Moore's words is verifiable evidence. Additionally, (a) we need to be sure that the Patrick Alfred Moore in the London Gazette is the same man as Sir Patrick Moore (I am pretty sure - I used a ref in the main article - but there were over one

2265:

Perhaps he was influential in getting the name officially adopted by the IAU in 1970, I don't know. I shall remove the claim as well as the statement that Moore made it. BTW, how very nice to be able to read such a very good article at a time when many people are remembering back over many years.

552:

I am not convinced that being former president of an (admittedly influential) amateur astronomical society defines him as amateur. Nevertheless, I am in favour of the amateur designation. As Agendum says, professional astronomy is a very different discipline and Moore lacks any qualifications for

300:

Ask any professional astronomer -- he is an amateur astronomer even if he is paid for his broadcasting. He teaches amateur astronomy (what you can do with an amateur telescope) and doesn't do astronomy research. Is a school gym teacher a professional footballer just becease they are paid to teach

280:

That's a compelling argument, but as he actually performs astronomy in order to present (rather than just presenting other people's astronomy - like a commentator) I feel the line is a bit blurry, but nevermind. I guess the comparison might be with, say, gardeners on gardening shows.. even if all

212:

I wholeheartedly agree. The section on his political views skews the article. OK I dont like his politics either but for 30 years I happily admired and followed his work without knowledge of his extreme Right Wing views. That hero worship ended when I read his autobiography. Nevertheless one must

3665:

In the 1960s Moore narrated a BBC Schools science documentary, purporting to be the voice of a Martian astronomer presenting a programme about whether the mysterious planet Earth might support life. At the end of the programme a Martian space probe sent back a picture of Stonehenge. If more firm

3601:

I do, however, remember him being asked about her in a live television interview many years ago. Either he was the greatest actor Britain had ever had or his fiancée had been a real flesh-and-blood woman whose tragic early death still affected him greatly, for the emotion written on his face was

3163:

One alternative is to add something like "This has not been verified with an official or independent source". Alternatively someone could ask all the obituary writers whether they were using Moore's autobiography as a source or have some other independent source for their statements that Patrick

3944:

term which does not have that meaning. Can you find a reliable source anywhere which describes Sir Patrick, or any other amateur astronomer, as a "non-professional astronomer"? If you can then you could add it to the article but not replace the reliably sourced term amateur astronomer. Dabbler

153:

He has some other Science Fiction titles to his credit, although I suspect he'd rather forget about them. "World of Mists" (Frederic Muller, 1956) and the earlier "Quest of the Spaceways" are very much childrens adventure books and hopelessly outdated by more recent astronomy and space science.

4005:

Thank you for responding. As I said in my email, Martin Mobberley is a figure of note in the world of British amateur astronomy, was president of the British Astronomical Association from 1997 to 1999 and has written eight books on astronomy for the prestigious publishing firm of Springer. His

347:

I have spent a lot of time cleaning up articles in the past but I'm afraid I don't have time to do this one right now. Tagging it (so it goes in a cleanup category) means that perhaps someone else interested in cleanup with more free time or more knowledge may like to look at it. If you don't

3179:

If a reliable source says that Moore's promotion is in some way doubtful then we can cite that. There is a difference between an official source not stating Moore's promotion and our inability to find the promotion record. Otherwise stating something that we think we've worked out would be

3575:

I believe Moore said she was aged 20 when she died in 1943, sometimes described as in a bombing raid and sometimes more exactly when a bomb hit an ambulance she was driving. Just to note that the CWGC Register of Civilian War Deaths is mentioned but she could have been in the military.

3454:

was tricked into printing a spoof article submitted under that name. Moore denied having anything to do with this hoax. Did he borrow the pseudonym from the orginal hoaxer (who also adopted the names N. Ormuss, E. Ratic and Egon Spunrass), or is this a belated confession? --

2131:

I looked in page 30 of his book and he said he spoke with Wright for half an hour. He wrote "It is rather sobering to reflect that Orville Wright and Neil Armstrong could have met. They never did, but their lives overlapped." Makes no claim of being the only one to meet them

4006:

forthcoming biography of Sir Patrick Moore will be his ninth for them. As I also said, this book will, according to their website, be 620 pages long and include 110 illustrations. It is the product of ten years of research. It is surely worth mentioning in the article.

2449:

do seem to apply, especially as there must be a ton of obituary material out there. I've refrained from tagging the article as it's been through GA and is currently linked from the Main Page, but I encourage editors to reduce the reliance upon Moore's autobiography.

3742:

The lead puts as much weight/space into his political views and xylophone playing as his astronomy: this is WP:UNDUE and is misleading. He was famous first and foremost for his astronomy. No mention made in the lead of the fact that NASA used his moon charts,

3078:

million people serving in the RAF at any one time during World War II) and (b) the London Gazette evidence hardly rules out Moore spending some time in the acting rank of Flt Lt. Anyway why would he lie about his rank? It is not as if he was claiming to be an

326:, probably should have copied here too. This article just has a series of disconnected little fragments of information which flow very poorly. It needs reformatted into proper sections and paragraphs. Could do with a lot more information and a few sources, too. 80:

1927. Bush died in 1928, the telescope was dismantled. At the end of that year a young Patrick Moore took over this observatory on Hanbury's invite. He saw Bush's telescope there, and still owns Bush's observational log book, and many photographs of the site.

3380:

Do we really need a long list of personal appearances (as himself) on talk and quiz programmes, fairly standard fair for a tv personality and the individual appearances are not particularly notable (unless somebody has a reliable references to the contrary).

2285:

the crater, but he did properly describe it and call it "Mare Orientale". Perhaps that counts as discovery. I'll leave others to sort this out. I think the matter is too abstruse to belong in a general biography which is why I removed the text. The article

3297:

involvement. On his Lunar Picture of the Day site he writes: “Those preparing for Apollo forgot Moore, partly because he championed volcanism as the origin of lunar craters, and because a new more quantitative and less observational approach was required”

3783:

He made his living from presenting television programmes and writing books on astronomy, not from conducting scientific research at universities. I would just have the article say 'astronomer', but Moore was always insistent and very proud of his amateur

1991:

Ok, seen as the guy who maintains the sirpatrickmoore website seems to have either fallen into a black hole or picked the wrong side in the Threapleton Holmes B civil war, I changed the link to the biography page, as both the Home and News pages are not

2117:

Armstrong. So, at best, we risk repeating an erroneous claim that in all probability was made in good faith but could make Mr. Moore look foolish. Misspeak once and be forever tainted by Knowledge (XXG)'s long memory? I don't think that's a good idea.

2567:

I also seem to remember a series of science fiction novels for the younger reader including the story of the trip to Vontor. The telescopic viewing device in the spaceship seemed to be based on the electron microscope rather than the CCD instrument.

3602:

clearly genuine. For a moment I feared he was going to break down in tears. I think it extremely insulting to his character and memory to suggest he invented her. And while it is true he had a love of hoaxing, that does not equate with dishonesty.

3333:

We studied, er, due to a great deal of your work of course, on er, on the mapping of the moon, er, we studied the area we were gonna land so well, that I really believe I knew it - at least from the air, from above - as well as I know my own back

3254:

from journalists, researchers, his former comrades and even Knowledge (XXG) editors. Lying might be uncovered and bring discredit and as I have indicated above the records in the London Gazette cannot be seen as consituting a discrepancy anyway.

3820:

The term amateur is important because astronomy is one of the few areas of science in which an amateur can make significant contributions. I believe Sir Patrick was keen to point this out too, as an encouragement to people to take up astronomy.

2338:

This reads as if the first instance of this phenomenon occurred in 1968, and it was Moore who spotted it. That's complete bollocks. There have been 100-ish sightings, going back at least as far as 1178. Moore may have given the phenomenon a

422:

Is there a source other than Alan's appearance on the Culture Show? It strikes me as something you might put in a script as an in-joke to your artist considering the subject matter. I just don't think it's something to be taken at face value.

3271:

but, due to epilepsy, was declared medically unfit for further flying duties. He spent some time in the RAF’s training branch before leaving the Service in 1947. From 1952 he had made his living as a freelance writer.“ So why not quote that?

2563:

Patrick Moore mentioned on one of his programmes that he started a UFO hoax by falsely claiming that he'd seen one at a certain time and place. He reckoned that at least 50 people later claimed to have seen the same but non-existant UFO.

404:

together a bit. It still needs more content and context on a lot of stuff (eg, would be nice to know more about his politics and life, eg, and when and why he became interested in xylophone, if he ever said, how he met Brian May etc).

123:

I don't think it is in any way deragatory: initially I removed it because it is non-encyclopedic. By now it no longer is, as indeed the Flash animation for 'Patrick Moore' is 6th in Google, and 'Patrick Moore UK' was 2nd just now.

2973:

which is to do with running the air training corps or more probably the officer cadet corps at the school he taught at. It was this later duty that he probably became an temporary acting Flt Lt, nothing to do with Bomber Command.

3761:

Also, if for the last 50-ish years he made his living from astronomy, he can't really be called an amateur astronomer, can he? He's a self-taught astronomer, without a degree in the subject, but he certainly wasn't an amateur.

3804:, This was what Patrick Moore did for many decades, becoming an expert on lunar observation. He also wrote extensively on the subject, but his income from his works would not necessarily make him a professional astronomer. – 3013:

Martinevans123 feels he's not really that worthy. But he thinks that the way that sentence currently appears in the article might still lead most people to assume Moore was a Flt Lt in the RAF. Many thanks for the info.

338:

information required and provide your sources. I wonder what you think is missing? You know your own standards better than us, if you can't do the work, perhaps more instructions for the working peons would be helpful.

83:

May I add the subject Thomas W. Bush to site as an extention to Patrick Moore's page? I do have two old photo's of Bush with his 24 inch telescope at Hanbury's East Grinsted observatory, but I am unable to upload them!

3704:

The intro described Moore as "an English legend" in the spot where the profession would normally go. Robin Hood is an English legend; Sir Patrick was real. I've changed "English legend" to "English astronomer."

3059:

RAF records show that he enlisted in or after Dec 1941 and left in 1947 with the rank of PIlot Officer. Moore's claims of lying about his age to get in and rising to the rank of Flight Lieutenant need verification.

3350:

Very possibly Cernan just believed what he was told by Moore, as many did. Anyway, NASA used Lunar Orbiter pictures for planning the Apollo landings. Ground-based observations were nowhere near detailed enough.

3848:

Despite the protestations of others to the contrary, it strikes me as the height of absurdity to label Sir Patrick Moore an amateur astronomer. Might not "nonprofessional astronomer" be a more appropriate term?

2522:

Can anyone confirm the bit about him saying homosexuals spread AIDS in his autobiography? I can't find anything matching this using Google Book preview. I'm not sure if the search will search the entire book -

4070:

subject, it could also be the worst book ever written and full of incorrect material and poorly written. As Patrick Moore, himself, often used to say about some astronomical phenomenon, "We just don't know".

1166:. Who would you suggest as a likely replacement? Remember, they need the personality to carry the show which would also need to locate to a new centre such as the RO, Greenwich or Leicester Space Centre. 4042:

Anything relevant? I believe you are being facetious. I have restored the reference, this time with "forthcoming" in parentheses. If you want to reverse the edit, so be it. I will abide by whatever you

3644:

in Berlin in either 1854 or 1855 and died in London in 1941, aged 86. The 1911 census describes her as a naturalised British subject. Her husband was a Scot by the name of William Roger Caldwell Moore.

2263:

Mare Orientale: The Eastern Sea in the west - Discovery and nomenclature. Baum, R. & Whitaker, E. A., Journal of the British Astronomical Association, vol.117, no.3, p.129-135. 2007JBAA..117..129B

267:

He has never been paid to be an astronomer, but worked as an educator/presenter/author etc. so the answer must be yes he is an amateur astronomer but he is a professional broadcaster and author etc..

2955:

We're talking Bomber Command here? I would have thought Cranwell would almost certainly have his records, which could be requested. But really not sure who next of kin would be to allow any request.

2911: 2870:(even) The Telegraph says "It is rumoured he performed remarkable heroics as a young Flight Lieutenant, with a distinguished career in intelligence, all as yet unconfirmed by Sir Patrick himself." 2996:

so its just posible that something might turn up. If Martinevans123 wants to try and get Moore's service record (a worthy ambition) then the National Archives would be a good place to start. See

1120:

As a result, I've abolished the misleading Personal life section and merged it with the Other interests one, leaving the Honours & appointments to the end. Some tidying to be done, perhaps...

3990:

I was correct to remove it the first time but I am not familiar with the current British astronomical scene to know whether this book should be included. I open the topic for further discussion.

2413:

Can we get sources to all those facts which are currently cited to a Moore book? I don't think him being notable gives us the ability to use his own writings as evidence of his accomplishments.

712:

Is Sir Patrick's unusual physical size suitable material for wikipedia? My former physics teacher claimed he was 6'8" tall, and that coupled with his broad-boned build is surely noteworthy,

3086:? That said some more concrete evidence would be no bad thing and I personally would like to know what squadron he served on and what aircraft type he performed his navigator duties etc. 2308:

who developed the theory of gravity. Having examples of Moore's abstruse scientific work puts a new dimension on someone who has often been thought of just as a populariser and eccentric.

3800:

home. They can make a valid and often notable contribution to lunar, planetary or stellar observation in this way, linking with other amateur observers through organisations such as the

3509:

The CWGC 'Register of Civilian War Deaths' shows no 'Lorna' of a suitable age dying in 1943; further nurses are generally identified as such and there is no 'Lorna' nurse dying in 1943.

150:

Apart from the monocle Patrick is well recognised by British TV audiences for his bushy (and fairly straggly) eyebrows and the way they tend to waggle around. Very distracting at times.

380:

By the way, the tag did not say to present rationale on the talk page when I first placed it, merely that cleanup should be discussed there by anyone who had an interest in doing it.

373:, stuff to flesh out the article from a list of statements to a serious biographical entry: you may want to take a look at the biography section of some of the featured articles, eg 3534:

sources (his autobiography). However the issue you're raising would need to be sourced to a news article or other reference which questions the existence/identity of his fiancee. --

2071:

I've definitely heard him say this in interview. Whether he is the only person to have met both, I'm not sure. I think it's an interesting and notable point. (OP, not signed in)

3302:

visited Moscow. I know this for sure because he interviewed me for his TV show.” Nonetheless, as Wood correctly notes, Patrick’s books on the Moon inspired many, and I was one.

909:

20091004 I have added a reference to the East Sussex Astronomical Society. It is not vandalism. I cannot see why Dabbler has removed it. I have reinstrated it. Sallen2006

3199:

Many of the obituaries seem to have included that claim, but its hard to tell if they have their own independent sourcves or are just repeating Knowledge (XXG) and/or Moore.

2970: 2147:

When Buzz Aldrin presented a BAFTA award to Patrick Moore (year unknown), Buzz said that Patrick Moore had met all of the people who had been to the Moon and Orville Wright.

4026:

If it doesnt exist yet how can it be used as a source/reference or even further reading, at least wait until it is published and then see if it contains anything relevant.

257:

After being paid for some fifty years to present a show on astronomy, after haven written countless books, and so on and so forth.. is he to be considered an 'amateur'? --

2767:

He does not mention any details of his service in his autobiography. The Flight Lieutenant fact was there before I turned it into a good article. In fact, the information

2017:

Is it worth mentioning that he is probably the only person ever to have met both the first pilot of a sustained powered aeroplane and the first man to walk on the moon?

1289: 611:

I'm sure Patrick was a long time member of the OMRLP. I seem to remember him mentioning it during an interview once, stating that when the Loonies took power he would be

493:

someone who has done all that is an "amateur". He even has an asteroid named after him. Further, many of his services to astronomy he has been paid for. He is a

2941:

No evidence but it was not unusual for officers in the Air Training Corps to be a temporary acting Flt Lt, which would have been his last "rank" albeit only acting.

3986:

has since contacted me by email to state that Mobberley is a well known amateur astronomer in the UK and therefore his book should be listed. I believe that under

1279: 3465:

That explains a lot! Indeed, Patrick had nothing to do with authorship of "Bureaucrats: How to Annoy Them" - The pseudonym R.T.Fishall was used by Willie Rushton

2912:

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=D7M0Rgc1ONAC&pg=PT7&dq=%22Sir+Patrick+moore%22+RAF&hl=en&sa=X&ei=eB3LUN7JFoeP0AXPt4GwDA&ved=0CFUQ6AEwBQ

2827:

Your diligence here, EchetusXe, has not gone unnoticed. But how strange that all those obituaries will never be updated. Although, of course, we could always try

877:... I would say that if he supports UKIP, that should be put here, but this article just consists of this Knowledge (XXG) page, so it's hardly a reliable source. 1256: 1555:'In January 1998, part of Moore's observatory in his garden was destroyed by a tornado which passed through the area; the observatory was subsequently rebuilt. 4092:

Mobberley's book is now out and nails many of the self-myths that Patrick put around, such as the fiancee and joining up under-age, so start editing, guys.

3685:

This Talk page seems to be growing steadily, so I propose to set up automatic archiving next week to control its size unless there are any objections.

2304:

In science, merely being the first person to find something does not make you the "discoverer". Many people had seen apples fall from trees but it was

4180:

Ned Sherrin, ‘Rushton, William George (1937–1996)’, Oxford Dictionary of National Biography, Oxford University Press, Sept 2004; online edn, Jan 2006

4171:

Ned Sherrin, ‘Rushton, William George (1937–1996)’, Oxford Dictionary of National Biography, Oxford University Press, Sept 2004; online edn, Jan 2006

2771:. No one appears to have challenged it in that time and all of his obituaries mention him reaching the rank of Flight Lieutenant so I hope its true!-- 3246: 1004:

I'm sure that as a schoolboy in the 1950s I can remember reading one of Sir Patricks novels about two young men who went to a planet called Vontor?

742:

We need a better reference than your former physics teacher. My personal recollection is that while he is tall, he certainly wasn't as big as 6' 8".

3888:

does not necessarily imply a lack of experience or competence. Indeed, he was probably more knowledgeable about astronomy than many a professional.

3473:

Ned Sherrin may have been a stickler for accuracy, but he would seem to have been wrong about R. T. Fishall being Willie Rushton. I have never seen

561:

Moon mapping) has been used by professionals, but that is one of the joys of amateur astronomers: we can make a useful contribution to the science.

792:

No mention of Patrick Moore's books published under the pseudonym of R.T.Fishall? I have a copy of one of them, 'Bureaucrats: How to Annoy Them'.

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This article is far too obsessed with Moore's eccentricity, one-off media appearances and other trvia, and not interested enough in his work.

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for details of Moore's World War II service, I get the following. Nowhere can I find the information about Moore being granted the rank of

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The term "amateur astronomer" is defined as a non-professional astronomer and is the most usual term in citations. So what is the problem?

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Would Derek Parker explain why he thinks his wife's book warrants a mention in the lede? And how about actually giving a valid reference?

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I met Patrick Moore some years ago - I'm average height for a man, so if he was 6' 8" he would have towered over me - he's not that tall.

3132:

That forum thread is a good idea. I think what MilborneOne has said about Air Training Corps and temporary acting ranks is vey sensible.

1033:

Certain external sources with differing reliability have said that the aforementioned awards were presnted to him in 2001 and not 2000.

4131:(b) Note for each such element that Moore's account is now questioned, and have a separate section summarising Mobberley's conclusions. 4093: 3763: 3748: 3721: 3397:

his chute). The crew member arrived at the show and shook hands with Sir Patrick. Was this just another mystery about his war service?

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If you have access to the BBC iPlayer you can watch "Sir Patrick Moore: Astronomer, Broadcaster and Eccentric" and it's at about 9:00.

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OK I changed it to 'Moore described the short-lived glowing areas on the lunar surface, known as transient lunar phenomenon, in 1968.'--

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Lorna might have been her middle name. Lorna might not have been of a "suitable age". Lorna might have been a trainee nurse etc etc.--

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After some looking at Google Book Search it turns out that Moore himself stated that he reached the rank of flight lieutenant. See:

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You might ask the BBC or the people who issued the statement. Knowledge (XXG) just links to the story as a reference. we don't know.

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I agree that it's an interesting factoid—just the sort of thing that gives color to Knowledge (XXG) articles. But consider the word

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I´ve placed a reference to one of the referenced operettas mentioned in the article. Is there a better way to tie those facts up? --

281:

they do are the TV shows they're still professional gardeners.. or, not..? :) Anyway, minor point, but it just stood out for me. --

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States that Moore was granted an emergency probationary commission in the General Duties Branch (i.e. commissioned aircrew) of the

2493:

Ah, well spotted. I must have copied the citation template from the Stanley Matthews article and then not updated the ISBN field.--

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the entry on the wiki article on East Sussex Astronomical Society now links back to Sir Patrick Moore. So can this entry stay?

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If you have access to the book, could you check the citation? The ISBN refers to a book about Stanley Matthews, for instance.

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That was, as I'm sure you probably guessed, affectionate vandalism. I've changed back to the original "amateur astronomer". --

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I removed it because I considered it to be a relatively unimportant fact about Moore. I never suggested that it was vandalism.

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Sir Patrick Moore was an amateur astronomer and, as indicated by others on this page, prided himself on being such. The word

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Someone has restored the sentences and rewritten them more satisfactorily. However, so far as I can see, even Franz did not

1235:

Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

795:

Allegedly Patrick Moore has also been involved in organising certain UFO hoaxes. Anyone got any more information on this?

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This is all rather amusing stuff! I have known Patrick as a friend for over fifty years. He cherishes his amateur status.

2884:(.. have not yet found the courage to try and see exactly what the Sunday Mirror said. Presumably not available on-line?) 1939:

Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Is it correct to refer to Queen guitarist Brian May as 'Dr' Brian May? Please see below (from Brian May's entry on Wiki)

3506:"only romance ended when his fiancée Lorna, a nurse, was killed in London in 1943 by a bomb which struck her ambulance" 66: 2969:

Greenshed's LG extract show he left the "real" RAF as a Flying Officer in November 1945. The later service is with the

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Alas, Greenshed, the fact that someone has said something in their autobiography does not automatically make it true.

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Indeed. I looked him up just after watching that Flash animation. So I think this matters at least deserves a poll.--

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References cite "Moore 2000" but the book is given as "Moore, Patrick (2003), The Autobiography, Sutton Publishing,

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No. He may have said this, but he started his own (very short lived) rather right-wing party. It didn't last long.

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http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/profiles/sir-patrick-moore-in-tune-with-music-of-the-spheres-2198463.html

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YES! lol! Thats how I even heard of him from here in the US. Its funny as heck, a good link to put in at least!

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And in this you are of course entirely wrong, however ask and you shall receive, which cite should be replaced?

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The great question facing the programme is, as he approaches 90, when Sir Patrick retires, who will take over?

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He had them use a telescope that seeme very close to the later invention of the CCD attachment for telescopes.

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Is it worth covering his remarks on this topic? They are reported on the Times and BBC websites for 8 May 2007.

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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/9238579/The-only-good-Kraut-is-a-dead-Kraut-Sir-Patrick-Moore-says.html

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Thanks for the response; it's still broken. I'd fix it myself if there wasn't potential conflict of interest

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However, Patrick Moore himself claims to be an amateur astronomer. See the first video clip on this website.

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http://www.rafcommands.com/forum/showthread.php?14023-The-Late-Great-Sir-Patrick-Moore-RAF-Service-Questions

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http://www.rafcommands.com/forum/showthread.php?14023-The-Late-Great-Sir-Patrick-Moore-RAF-Service-Questions

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Well firstly a linkable reference would be needed to show this, and even then it would probably fall under

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Did I understand correctly in a recent episode of The Sky at Night that Patrick Moore is the discoverer of

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He mentions that in his autobiography, though I don't think he said he is the only one to have done so.--

829: 655:, even before the USSR could photograph it, thanks to the Moon's wobble? If so, that is worth a mention. 4149:

the claims which have subsequently been repeated elsewhere giving them a possibly spurious credibility.

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her! And, no, one does not need to experience something like this to appreciate how it feels: I didn't.

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We're limited in the images we can use, as they must be free. We can't upload an image on condition of

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Otherwise, well referenced, no OR, spotchecks verify statements, assume good faith for off-line sources

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I would agree with your sentiments, it would just be nice to know more about her and tell her story.

3481:, clearly identifies Patrick Moore as the author of both volumes. Furthermore, in his autobiography, 3424: 3341: 3027: 2861: 2732: 2484: 2429: 2122: 2059: 1193: 969: 921: 136: 3971: 2569: 2394:

How can this be described as his alma mater when he didn't even go there? (He turned down a place).

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though condemned the Liberal Democrats, stating that he believed they would their position radically

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While amateur can be used in that manner with other nouns, amateur astronomer is a well-known and

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should this be added back, as it is the 3rd result in Google, when searching for Patrick Moore UK

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can imply a lack of experience or competence, would it not be better to call Sir Patrick Moore a

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Or maybe he discovered that particular instance of it. Either way, the writing needs work. --

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It is always stimulating to debate with somebody of your intellectual acumen, Terrian Blondeau.

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ever met both these individuals. in fact I would consider it highly unlikely that was the case.

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Does Moore have a family? Wife? Children? Partner? Companion? Friend with benefits? Anything?

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understand how the article is lacking, perhaps you may like to sample some of the articles at

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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/obituaries/science-obituaries/9732840/Sir-Patrick-Moore.html

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Even if he made that claim, I'd be a little bit skeptical. We'd need an independent source.

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either, because we have one free image. I will have a search for some available images. --

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It Came from Outer Space, Wearing an RAF Blazer: A fan's biography of Sir Patrick Moore

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The link to sirpatrickmoore.com leads to a broken (and I think no longer updated) page

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by all definitions of the word. Perhaps he hasn't done much recently, but he's 80 ....

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http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/records/looking-for-person/officerroyalairforce.htm

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States that Moore relinquished his commission on 24 November 1945 as a Flying Officer.

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The question is beyond the scope of the article. We don't speculate about the future.

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information about this programme can be found it should be added to his filmography.

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sensitive matter of never marrying or having a partner by producing a dead fiancee.

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told Moore, when being interviewed by him, that he has studied his work etc ...

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If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the

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As somebody who grew up reading Patrick Moore's books and watching his monthly

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Moore, Patrick (2010). Patrick Moore's Astronomy. London: Hachette UK. p. vii.

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http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=kfA0AQAAIAAJ&q=homosexuals#search_anchor

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it appears to be, is a single source. I would suggest one of two approaches:

3978:. I removed this as it appeared to be an obvious conflict of interest to me. 715:

I've added it anyway, others can remove it if they think it's inappropriate.

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He is not paid to do astronomy but to write books, present television shows.

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It looks like a server error, may not be fixed until the holidays are over.

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Well spotted there on the mistake that was copy-pasted all over the place.--

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I'm not sure it is a board, so I changed it to 'nominated into' the union.--

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I have no idea how important Moore's maps were to the moon landings, but

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making money from his hobby by being paid to write and present about it.

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It's pretty unlikey that Cranwell will have Moore's service record. The

2527:. The phrase about "Adam and Steve" does not seem characteristic to me. 2333:, describing the short-lived glowing areas on the lunar surface in 1968. 3974:

added a book title to the article written by a Martin Mobberley called

2808:

Looks as though the claim of lying about his age might be a self-myth.

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States that Moore resigned his commission in the rank of Pilot Officer.

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Not really, heh. It is just a brand of projector, so I added a link to

2992:

library does have some copies of World War II records lodged with the

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reverted my edit with no further explanation, so I removed it again.

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Despite that they are an interesting record of opinions at the time.

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I changed it to simply state the fact that he became an officer.--

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No mention of his interest in cricket. Anyone care to contribute?

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By all means. What trouble are you having uploading the pictures?

3477:, but the back cover of the only other book credited to Fishall, 1557:

would be better located later on for chronological consistency.

3118:

but it should be a structured collection of verifiable facts.

557:

a Ph.D for starters. It is true that his work (especially pre-

25: 2847:'The only good Kraut is a dead Kraut,' Sir Patrick Moore says 3030:'s marvellous little poetic tribute to Moore, on Radios 4's 3485:, Moore writes that he "created the author R. T. Fishall." 2261:, he certainly was not the first person to call it so. See 1513:'He was nominated onto the International Astronomical Union 2222:

Why has a death occurring in winter been recorded in BST?

3442:

I recall Moore relating in the title chapter of his book

1881:

On hold for seven days for above issues to be addressed.

1484:

Moore travelled to Japan to secure a Goto Mars projector.

394:

I had a go with my mop and bucket. See what y'all think.

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Never mind, there's a bit about it on the MRLP web page

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which associates Bomber Command and Flight Lieutenant.

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section. I had looked for it, naturally enough, in the

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One image used, licensed, no caption needed in infobox

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Thought editors here might be interested to know the

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UKIP website has been using this page as inspiration

2329:Also, Moore was credited with the discovery of the 1150:as deputy. Other strong contenders are Brian Cox, 985:I won't remove it but I can speak only for myself. 3512:Either he changed the name, or she never existed. 2917:Patrick Moore's Astronomy: Teach Yourself, p. vii 2849:in The Telegraph earlier this year; it is also at 2735:on 13 June 1946 in the Training Branch of the RAF. 2595:. Can anyone cross-check with his autobiography? 1092:Never mind. I found what I was looking for in the 1919:Thank you for your assistance and observations!-- 182:One-Two-Three-Four, Patrick Moore on the floor! 1486:Can you explain what a "Goto Mars projector" is? 301:football lessons to amateurs? I don't think so. 4116:The 'fan book' noted above, Martin Mobberley's 3040:I think we need to be careful not to engage in 4118:It Came From Outer Space Wearing An RAF Blazer 2845:The rank of Flight Lieutenant is mentioned at 1337:I shall be reviewing this article against the 845:Indeed, see "Books illustrated by Rushton" at 8: 3446:that he encountered a representative of the 3299:http://lpod.wikispaces.com/December+10,+2012 3292:Patrick’s contribution to the Moon programme 3034:- I do hope it eventually appears in print: 2188:entirely sure how the commons system works. 1829:(images are tagged and non-free images have 511:Patrick Moore the amateur astronomer speaks 236:are partly what have made him so popular.-- 2731:States that Moore was granted the rank of 1895:OK, all sorted, happy to list. Well done! 1239: 146:Patrick Moore - ecentricity and authorship 788:Hoaxes and books published as R.T.Fishall 322:I actually gave rationale for cleanup on 3661:BBC Schools documentary - title required 569:discoveries are prime examples of this. 4164: 3331:said to Moore in a televised interview 1270: 1242: 369:did he do all these things the article 768:gives his height as "six foot three". 44:Do not edit the contents of this page. 3242:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-10525469 3232:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-20657939 7: 3700:Described as a 'legend' in the intro 1231:The following discussion is closed. 1146:could do it as main presenter with 3699: 2769:was added by an IP seven years ago 2673:States that Moore was promoted to 1824:, where possible and appropriate. 158:PATRICK MOORE PLAYS THE XYLOPHONE 24: 2804:See also the thread on this page 433:Patrick Moore plays the Xylophone 252: 3802:British Astronomical Association 3681:Automatic archiving of this page 2677:(war substantive) on 2 Dec 1944. 2638:, being raised from the rank of 1935:The discussion above is closed. 1874: 1850: 1836: 1804: 1779: 1776:Fair representation without bias 1751: 1741: 1676: 1662: 1648: 1475: 1441: 905:East Sussex Astronomical Society 29: 3376:Film and television appearances 2851:"War wound op for TV Patrick". 1420:for what the criteria are, and 817:relied upon, per this entry: 3945:(talk) 16:18, 3 May 2013 (UTC) 3475:Bureaucrats: How to Annoy Them 3164:Moore was a Flight Lieutenant. 2605:23:50, 12 December 2012‎ (UTC) 2343:in 1968, but that's all. -- 2013:Wright brothers/Neil Armstrong 639:23:12, 26 September 2006 (UTC) 630:14:19, 26 September 2006 (UTC) 620:14:18, 26 September 2006 (UTC) 536:10:56, 18 September 2006 (UTC) 518:01:55, 18 September 2006 (UTC) 502:00:22, 18 September 2006 (UTC) 465:02:09, 14 September 2007 (UTC) 1: 4102:12:47, 7 September 2013 (UTC) 3831:01:12, 10 December 2012 (UTC) 3676:02:47, 11 December 2012 (UTC) 3598:could hardly have asked him. 3524:22:09, 20 February 2013 (UTC) 3460:12:37, 18 February 2006 (UTC) 3391:18:23, 15 December 2012 (UTC) 3367:10:59, 14 December 2012 (UTC) 3346:18:06, 13 December 2012 (UTC) 3321:17:35, 13 December 2012 (UTC) 3284:11:08, 27 December 2012 (UTC) 3264:23:54, 21 December 2012 (UTC) 3213:The statement is cited from: 3209:18:13, 21 December 2012 (UTC) 3194:21:26, 20 December 2012 (UTC) 3174:00:06, 19 December 2012 (UTC) 3142:23:34, 15 December 2012 (UTC) 3128:21:28, 18 December 2012 (UTC) 3110:11:35, 17 December 2012 (UTC) 3096:22:51, 15 December 2012 (UTC) 3073:11:36, 17 December 2012 (UTC) 3055:21:23, 14 December 2012 (UTC) 3024:17:23, 14 December 2012 (UTC) 3009:16:33, 14 December 2012 (UTC) 2984:15:22, 14 December 2012 (UTC) 2965:14:43, 14 December 2012 (UTC) 2951:13:36, 14 December 2012 (UTC) 2934:12:44, 14 December 2012 (UTC) 2894:11:06, 14 December 2012 (UTC) 2880:22:20, 13 December 2012 (UTC) 2866:22:16, 13 December 2012 (UTC) 2841:21:55, 13 December 2012 (UTC) 2818:11:36, 17 December 2012 (UTC) 2797:21:42, 13 December 2012 (UTC) 2782:10:31, 13 December 2012 (UTC) 2578:08:21, 11 December 2012 (UTC) 2553:09:21, 11 December 2012 (UTC) 2537:04:12, 11 December 2012 (UTC) 2504:22:47, 11 December 2012 (UTC) 2489:18:51, 11 December 2012 (UTC) 2475:16:45, 11 December 2012 (UTC) 2459:13:43, 11 December 2012 (UTC) 2438:00:29, 11 December 2012 (UTC) 2423:09:45, 10 December 2012 (UTC) 2404:08:24, 10 December 2012 (UTC) 2318:12:58, 10 December 2012 (UTC) 2171:23:33, 11 December 2012 (UTC) 2157:23:11, 11 December 2012 (UTC) 1973:18:33, 30 December 2011 (UTC) 1958:14:37, 30 December 2011 (UTC) 1930:16:21, 28 December 2011 (UTC) 1905:00:46, 29 December 2011 (UTC) 1891:16:04, 28 December 2011 (UTC) 1712:16:21, 28 December 2011 (UTC) 1614:16:21, 28 December 2011 (UTC) 1579:16:21, 28 December 2011 (UTC) 1545:00:46, 29 December 2011 (UTC) 1531:16:21, 28 December 2011 (UTC) 1505:16:21, 28 December 2011 (UTC) 1400:00:29, 28 December 2011 (UTC) 1390:Full review within 48 hours. 1386:00:04, 28 December 2011 (UTC) 1365:23:54, 27 December 2011 (UTC) 1333:23:52, 27 December 2011 (UTC) 1138:Patrick Moore: when retiring? 1130:00:27, 27 November 2010 (UTC) 1110:00:07, 27 November 2010 (UTC) 1085:23:53, 26 November 2010 (UTC) 1065:23:32, 11 December 2012 (UTC) 900:21:25, 4 September 2009 (UTC) 863:21:37, 11 December 2012 (UTC) 838:20:40, 11 December 2012 (UTC) 811:23:10, 10 November 2007 (UTC) 747:00:49, 4 September 2007 (UTC) 734:18:52, 2 September 2007 (UTC) 647:Discoverer of Mare Orientale? 4159:01:10, 8 December 2013 (UTC) 4143:22:36, 7 December 2013 (UTC) 3814:21:51, 9 December 2012 (UTC) 3795:21:37, 9 December 2012 (UTC) 3778:21:04, 9 December 2012 (UTC) 3757:21:00, 9 December 2012 (UTC) 3738:19:44, 9 December 2012 (UTC) 3726:19:31, 9 December 2012 (UTC) 3433:04:50, 1 February 2013 (UTC) 3413:11:20, 13 January 2013 (UTC) 2382:23:44, 9 December 2012 (UTC) 2367:19:43, 9 December 2012 (UTC) 2352:19:02, 9 December 2012 (UTC) 2300:19:51, 9 December 2012 (UTC) 2276:18:04, 9 December 2012 (UTC) 2247:13:41, 9 December 2012 (UTC) 2232:13:37, 9 December 2012 (UTC) 2212:15:53, 9 December 2012 (UTC) 2198:13:33, 9 December 2012 (UTC) 2003:10:11, 20 January 2012 (UTC) 1987:09:51, 20 January 2012 (UTC) 1875: 1851: 1837: 1805: 1780: 1752: 1742: 1677: 1663: 1649: 1476: 1442: 1405:Checking against GA criteria 1217:20:35, 9 December 2012 (UTC) 1049:15:05, 21 October 2010 (UTC) 778:18:04, 9 December 2012 (UTC) 660:09:44, 13 October 2006 (UTC) 600:19:49, 27 January 2010 (UTC) 247:13:51, 3 December 2012 (UTC) 229:00:49, 3 December 2012 (UTC) 198:02:59, 20 October 2008 (UTC) 3082:when in fact he was only a 2143:20:07, 28 August 2012 (UTC) 2127:19:20, 28 August 2012 (UTC) 2104:17:20, 28 August 2012 (UTC) 2087:08:22, 28 August 2012 (UTC) 2064:15:37, 26 August 2012 (UTC) 2050:13:25, 26 August 2012 (UTC) 2033:12:57, 26 August 2012 (UTC) 995:17:42, 5 October 2009 (UTC) 974:05:59, 5 October 2009 (UTC) 949:00:49, 5 October 2009 (UTC) 930:18:35, 4 October 2009 (UTC) 166:-- the article says so! -- 4197: 4080:07:30, 23 April 2013 (UTC) 4057:06:59, 23 April 2013 (UTC) 4036:09:10, 21 April 2013 (UTC) 4020:21:41, 20 April 2013 (UTC) 4000:11:20, 20 April 2013 (UTC) 3895:is derived from the Latin 3891:I should perhaps add that 3656:21:53, 11 April 2013 (UTC) 3633:20:35, 10 April 2013 (UTC) 3618:19:27, 10 April 2013 (UTC) 3497:22:07, 10 April 2013 (UTC) 3438:Pseudonym R. T. Fis(c)hall 2331:transient lunar phenomenon 2324:Transient lunar phenomenon 761:20:08, 29 April 2008 (UTC) 702:07:56, 1 August 2008 (UTC) 606:Monster Raving Loony Party 579:20:33, 9 August 2009 (UTC) 442:08:26, 29 March 2006 (UTC) 428:22:21, 10 March 2006 (UTC) 3586:17:20, 8 April 2013 (UTC) 3571:10:26, 8 April 2013 (UTC) 3555:19:29, 7 April 2013 (UTC) 3539:21:58, 5 March 2013 (UTC) 1345:for Good Article status. 1198:18:28, 2 April 2011 (UTC) 1182:13:02, 2 April 2011 (UTC) 1023:12:55, 4 April 2010 (UTC) 409:19:45, 8 March 2006 (UTC) 399:18:17, 8 March 2006 (UTC) 385:17:54, 8 March 2006 (UTC) 343:14:35, 8 March 2006 (UTC) 331:12:44, 8 March 2006 (UTC) 306:12:55, 13 July 2006 (UTC) 296:17:03, 8 March 2006 (UTC) 286:16:35, 8 March 2006 (UTC) 272:02:26, 6 March 2006 (UTC) 262:01:11, 6 March 2006 (UTC) 178:14:15, 24 June 2007 (UTC) 173:Pa-pa-pa-pa-pa-Patrick! - 2443:Template:Primary sources 2114:the verifiability policy 1937:Please do not modify it. 1233:Please do not modify it. 708:Physical characteristics 680:10:42, 22 May 2007 (UTC) 483:21:35, 6 July 2006 (UTC) 357:... it needs more about 170:15:32, 13 Nov 2004 (UTC) 140:03:16, 13 May 2006 (UTC) 129:07:38, 27 May 2004 (UTC) 118:18:59, 26 May 2004 (UTC) 3961:18:31, 3 May 2013 (UTC) 3935:18:15, 3 May 2013 (UTC) 3911:17:35, 3 May 2013 (UTC) 3876:16:08, 3 May 2013 (UTC) 3861:14:24, 3 May 2013 (UTC) 3695:16:18, 3 May 2013 (UTC) 3444:Can You Speak Venusian? 2583:Royal Air Force service 1431:reasonably well written 324:Knowledge (XXG):Cleanup 1843:(appropriate use with 1424:for what they are not) 1374:: one found and fixed. 1353:: two found and fixed. 1308:Talk:Patrick Moore/GA1 851:Sidgwick & Jackson 2994:Air Historical Branch 2760:). 19 September 1947. 2636:RAF Volunteer Reserve 1818:It is illustrated by 1768:neutral point of view 1731:broad in its coverage 1691:" in the works cited. 1603:Well spotted, thnx.-- 1339:Good Article criteria 700:comment was added at 418:Alan Moore Connection 75:Nottingham Connection 42:of past discussions. 3501: 3028:Murray Lachlan Young 2733:Acting Pilot Officer 2390:Cambridge University 1515:"onto the board of"? 1202:Patrick Moore asked 1029:BAFTA and knighthood 474:Added Operetta link. 253:'amateur astronomer' 3899:, meaning "lover." 3469:of this funny tome. 3228:Other sources are: 2855:. 5 September 1999. 2729:). 8 November 1946. 2702:). 7 December 1945. 2640:Leading Aircraftman 2447:Template:One source 1831:fair use rationales 671:On women at the BBC 3502:Girlfriend 'Lorna' 3479:The Twitmarsh File 2745:The London Gazette 2714:The London Gazette 2687:The London Gazette 2671:). 2 January 1945. 2656:The London Gazette 2632:). 11 August 1944. 2617:The London Gazette 2587:Going through the 2257:If Moore did name 2161:(BAFTA was 2002). 1801:No edit wars, etc. 1632:factually accurate 1535:Sorted and cited. 1234: 396:The Singing Badger 18:Talk:Patrick Moore 4112:Substantial Edit? 3729: 3712:comment added by 3531:original research 3450:when its journal 3448:Aetherius Society 3403:comment added by 3357:comment added by 3311:comment added by 3221:978-1-4441-0313-7 3182:original research 3080:air chief marshal 3042:original research 3026:(p.s just caught 2853:The Sunday Mirror 2593:Flight Lieutenant 2409:Original Research 2077:comment added by 2023:comment added by 1845:suitable captions 1298: 1297: 1232: 1204:Dr John Mason MBE 1172:comment added by 1039:comment added by 1013:comment added by 933: 916:comment added by 841: 824:comment added by 813: 801:comment added by 736: 724:comment added by 704: 565:observations and 467: 455:comment added by 219:comment added by 188:comment added by 72: 71: 54: 53: 48:current talk page 4188: 4181: 4178: 4172: 4169: 4067:User:MilborneOne 3984:User:Alderbourne 3980:User:Alderbourne 3942:reliably sourced 3927:Terrian Blondeau 3853:Terrian Blondeau 3780: 3728: 3706: 3419:Recent additions 3415: 3369: 3323: 2856: 2761: 2759: 2753: 2730: 2728: 2722: 2703: 2701: 2695: 2672: 2670: 2664: 2633: 2631: 2625: 2420: 2416: 2362: 2347: 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1798: 1796: 1792: 1785: 1784: 1777: 1774: 1773: 1771: 1769: 1764: 1758:Good coverage 1757: 1756: 1749: 1739: 1735: 1734: 1732: 1728: 1721: 1720: 1719: 1718: 1717: 1716: 1713: 1710: 1708: 1704: 1700: 1699: 1692: 1690: 1687: 1682: 1681: 1674: 1672: 1660: 1658: 1646: 1642: 1641: 1639: 1638: 1633: 1629: 1623: 1622: 1621: 1620: 1619: 1618: 1615: 1612: 1610: 1606: 1602: 1601: 1594: 1592: 1588: 1587: 1586: 1585: 1584: 1583: 1580: 1577: 1575: 1571: 1568:Absolutely.-- 1567: 1566: 1559: 1558: 1552: 1546: 1542: 1538: 1534: 1533: 1532: 1529: 1527: 1523: 1519: 1518: 1517: 1516: 1510: 1506: 1503: 1501: 1497: 1494:to clarify.-- 1493: 1489: 1488: 1487: 1485: 1481: 1480: 1473: 1471: 1467: 1463: 1459: 1455: 1451: 1439: 1435: 1434: 1432: 1428: 1427: 1423: 1419: 1415: 1413: 1409: 1408: 1404: 1402: 1401: 1397: 1393: 1388: 1387: 1383: 1379: 1376: 1373: 1372: 1367: 1366: 1362: 1358: 1355: 1352: 1351: 1346: 1344: 1340: 1335: 1334: 1330: 1327: 1324: 1320: 1317: 1311: 1309: 1305: 1300: 1299: 1291: 1288: 1286: 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