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Perhaps there's someone in
Knowledge (XXG) who could give me one or more answers to questions I have asked myself since the day I started exploring the rich history of selenography (the art of making moonmaps). Many years ago I explored and investigated the somewhat greenish colored map of the moon's
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with the edit summary "rv good faith edit, this is completely WP:OR and it changes nothing, because Moore never gave enough details for Lorna to be traced as a real person". Yes, it is WP:OR, and yes it changes nothing, but it just goes to show that Moore's claim that Lorna was "was killed in London
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The article states that Moore claimed to have discovered Mare
Orientale, then goes on to say he conceded that someone else discovered it, and then the article also goes on to state that Mare Orientale had been observed for a couple centuries. Thus Moore certainly did not discover it; this is shown
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near crater Jansen in Mare
Tranquillitatis, etc... These names are not IAU-related (they do not appear in the lists of the International Astronomical Union), and also not in the list of 100 "new names" from Hugh Percy Wilkins and his Spanish friends (Gerard P. Kuiper didn't want to know about these
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OK, I've read this (thank goodness for Google Books) and agree to some extent that it is "not found in cited source" as it would be more accurate to say that no-one has been able to pinpoint a person who might have been Lorna due to Moore's vague and often varying accounts. The wording could be
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No, him making a ridiculous claim is not newsworthy. Someone making a false claim then retracting it is not notable nor does it belong on
Knowledge (XXG). If Margaret Thatcher claimed to have helped Britain win the World Cup, then retracted it, would that be notable and belong on Knowledge
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As matter of interest, I tried googling for Lorna's (with no surname) in the CWGC Debt of Honour database who died during 1943. There were only two Lornas altogether, neither of them civilians killed in this country. (The majority of names that came up in response to my goggle were
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Patrick Moore was a known flake when it came to the truth, it would be entirely in character for him to make a map and name some features as he desired, IAU and everyone else be damned. He claimed in his autobiography to have personally discovered Mare
Orientalis, for example.
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Nobody has been able to trace a matching civilian casualty from 1943, and this has set off some suspicion about the Lorna story. Mobberley says that the Lorna story did not appear until many years after the war, and that it may have been used to explain why he never
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I've added the GoogleBooks url to
Mobberley (2013) and using that link I'm able to see mention of "Lorna" on pages 28 and 29 (as well as on a few others). So I'm not sure what that edit summary was intended to mean. I think the text should be reinstated.
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Yes, I think that would have been ample evidence of mental instability on
Thatcher's part. So, yes, quite notable. Happy to hear what other editors say about the Mare Oriental claim. It seems that Moore may have invented a few things over the years.
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1397:"The Commonwealth War Graves online database does have a record of a Lorna Gertrude Wittrick, killed aged 22 in Mortlake, 7th November 1940, and a Lorna Margaret Noble, killed aged 25 at Gabalfa, Cardiff, 18th May 1943."
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There can't be many people called Lorna who were killed in London in 1943 when a bus struck an ambulance, so if this happened the incident would probably have been traced by now. What the article doesn't say is that
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claims about himself and his career that were not properly backed up by external evidence. Lorna is the most famous example, and the Mare
Oriental claim is another example where Moore himself backtracked on the
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heard Moore tell various stories about Lorna, some of them inconsistent, and
Mobberley believed that Lorna may have been a fictional character. This is discussed in several previous talk page threads (see
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100 "new" names). Could they (those strange names on that greenish colored moonmap) have been from
Patrick Moore himself? -Danny Caes, Ghent-Belgium, tuesday the 14th of april, 2020.
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OK, I did remove it at the same time as I opened discussion; I am new and not aware of the procedures, I apologize if I did it wrong. But it seems to be a bit of a no brainer edit.
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There is a pattern. Removing such claims allows for whitewashing. The ‘story’ of Mare Oriental claim should be reinstated to ensure that the pattern remains discernable.
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Maybe it's the "despite the meticulous records kept of wartime civilian casualties" that's the problem? (although the word "meticulous" is used 10 times in that book)
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I wonder if this section needs reorganising into chronological order. At the moment, it jumps back and forth a great deal (1970s, 1980s, 2001, 1950s, 2003, 1980s...)
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is also questioned in Mobberley's 2013 book. Mobberley says that Moore told varying stories about this as well and they never quite added up. It's the old
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I propose we reinstate "Some doubt has arisen over Moore's account, as researchers have been unable to identify Lorna." with the same p.28 source.
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p.s. I would certainly agree that the Mare Oriental claim is not "newsworthy". But Knowledge (XXG) is not meant to be a newspaper.
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You assume that Lorna is her "proper" name, not always the case people can use a name other than what was registered.
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twice untrue in the article. Thus his claim to discovery does not belong here, it has been twice disproved.
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on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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that the incident occurred in "early July 1943", but this never proved to be enough to identify her.--
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No worries. Other editors may not object. But I think that detail has been in the article for
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Some readers might consider the fact that he claimed the discovery to be notable in itself.
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online database. I have no idea how comprehensive or accurate the database may be.
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in 1943 by a bomb which struck her ambulance" is not currently supported by that
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A news item involving this article was featured on Knowledge (XXG)'s
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Strange lunar nomenclature in Patrick Moore's Atlas of the universe.
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52:Learn to edit
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815:Good article
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19:This is the
1885:Ian Yorston
1460:MilborneOne
1342:Mitika peak
1189:written in
336:In the news
148:free images
31:not a forum
1933:Categories
1807:removed it
1683:Cloptonson
1640:problem.--
1481:married.--
1330:Leon hills
1318:Loro basin
810:Dad's Army
799:assessment
557:BBC Portal
536:BBC portal
340:column on
253:under the
1515:this edit
1432:above).--
1390:this edit
1264:Archive 2
1259:Archive 1
1200:travelled
926:Biography
867:Musicians
862:Biography
824:Reassess
728:BBC Japan
453:Astronomy
448:Astronomy
404:Astronomy
373:is rated
330:Main Page
88:if needed
71:Be polite
21:talk page
1861:claim.--
1681:Lorne's.
1666:, then.
1664:this one
1338:Morotcha
1247:Archives
1212:artefact
710:BBC News
704:Copyedit
668:BBC News
658:Improve
375:GA-class
267:reassess
186:Archives
56:get help
29:This is
27:article.
1858:WP:AUTO
1748:(XXG)??
1638:WP:AUTO
1292:90 days
1216:analyse
1208:defence
1157:on the
1068:on the
807:Return
795:Goa Mix
682:Cleanup
619:history
589:on the
480:on the
332:in the
290:Process
203:90 days
154:WP refs
142:scholar
1592:Moore
1204:centre
1196:colour
1130:Sussex
1121:Sussex
1093:Sussex
801:) and
721:Expand
381:scale.
312:Listed
293:Result
126:Google
1384:Lorna
813:to a
797:(see
777:Other
765:Stubs
629:purge
624:watch
603:Tasks
362:This
169:JSTOR
130:books
84:Seek
1921:talk
1889:talk
1866:♦Ian
1847:talk
1829:talk
1815:talk
1787:talk
1764:talk
1756:talk
1739:talk
1724:talk
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1672:talk
1645:♦Ian
1624:talk
1601:♦Ian
1594:said
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1486:♦Ian
1464:talk
1437:♦Ian
1417:talk
1404:here
1374:talk
1355:talk
915:and
747:NPOV
666:and
614:edit
581:High
287:Date
162:FENS
136:news
73:and
1513:Re
1149:Low
1060:Low
826:BBC
817:. (
660:BBC
562:BBC
549:BBC
505:BBC
472:Low
176:TWL
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