Talk:Paektu Mountain - Knowledge (XXG)

1933:

encountered most often by English speakers, English readers, English-speaking tourists, articles, encyclopedias, and so on. There's even other sites named after it, such as the hotel located in the mountains, and the airport located in the mountains, which will make exposure all the more common. All those various websites, encyclopedias, and English-speaking tourists encounter the name "Changbai", but you're recommending that instead, we base the name on something that "can be spelled out in several different names, considering how a book or internet site spells it", which 1)will be rarely encountered, because access isn't possible, 2)tourists will never see, because tourism is very very limited, and 3)we'll never hear a lot about, apart from the nuke problem? And you're the one complaining about confusion and ambiguity? Again, if you think I'm simply being stubborn and my points completely baseless, we can try to resolve this through mediation. Or do you think such a proposal would be unfair to you?

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delayed in sending help at all. The one in Korea had to come back fresh from fighting a Mongolian invasion, and had to leave right afterwards, to continue dealing with the wars China was already embroiled in. That they chose to send help at all while mired in debt and fighting three simultaneous wars is certainly in dire contrast to the amount of gratitude that they recieved (none). I can say the same about the modern US forces as well. The US forces loss over 30,000 lives defending SK from communist invasion, and have spent money and lives on the front line protecting them for the next several decades ever since, and up to now, the USA has been hated and reviled, and told "Yankee go home!".

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system as well? Or does the argument work only in one direction? Furthermore, this is the English encyclopedia, so our primary consideration should be English usage, not Chinese or Korean usage. As I said above, Changbai is a consistently used name not only in search engine hits, but among multiple encyclopedias as well. Also, Baekdu is used to refer to a mountain rage as well, so that applies both ways. And I don't believe that Baitou is a name used commonly in China. Baitou usually refers to a city in

813: 408: 462: 441: 237: 637: 3016: 288: 987: 966: 2002:. Dissapointed, this user goes and tries in Encyclopedia Britannica instead, eagerly typing in "Baekdu" to try to learn more. Yet, this dissapointed user again finds www.britannica.com/search?query=Baekdu&ct=&searchSubmit.x=0&searchSubmit.y=0 no hits. However, by typing in the "Changbai" into such encyclopedia searches, he immediately finds what he's looking for. Which do you think is more helpful to the reader? 1116: 920: 895: 803: 782: 696: 1845:

based on blatently POV reasons (such as Oyo321's extremely enlightened comments that a page rename will lead the destruction of Korea). If you don't think this discussion will lead to anywhere, I'm perfectly happy with us dealing with this issue through mediation as well. I'm confident that the points I brought up will stand on their own, and that I can make a strong case for it. How about you? --

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states, the Tibetan kingdoms/empires, the Tanguts, Turks, Khitans, Xianbei, Uyghurs, Xiongnu, Miao, Mongols, Manchus, Tartars, etc. Really, you'd be hard pressed to find anyone holding a thousand year old grudge against any of the peoples that they fought in the past, and the Mongols directly and indirectly killed some 1/5 of China's population. --

3293:) My comment was that the name based on MR is more common than revised romanization and use of Mount or Mountain is better than Korean -san, using sites provided by another user. It was not an argument to uses a name derived from Korean over names derived from other languages. It was not a good list for that. For example, UNEXCO also uses Changbai 3148:: Most English encyclopedias and research documents use the name "Baekdu Mountain" *or* a variant of that name which includes 'Baitou Mountain', 'Paektusan', 'Paektu Mountain', etc. Have a read of the article for variants of the name Baekdu Mountain (백두산/白頭山). As an extra note, this is from the above courtesy of 3070:

I tried to clarify my remarks about cultural weight above. I meant that the relative cultural weight influences English usage and that subsequently should determine Knowledge (XXG) usage. I wasn't advocating cultural interpretation by editors as a means of determining titles, i.e., I agree with you

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I think you already know the answer. Why does Korea do the exact same thing to refugees trying to flee north? Why do they shoot people who flee, and imprison returnees in concentration camps to slowly work them to death while they starve? Why do Koreans get so antsy when some harmless starving people

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China plays so cheep in the international market and politics. They threaten to cut any ties with a country if that country recognizes Taiwan. Thats what happened to Korea. We had to cut our relations with Taiwan to trade with China and left the Taiwanese ambassadors crying out of the Korean embassy.

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I also don't see why're you're trying to attribute ulterior motives to me based on some actions a nigh-thousand years ago. Various Chinese dynasties have fought countless offensive and defensive wars against states from all four corners of the map, including Vietnamese, Nanchao, Dali, Burma, the Shan

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I don't ever recall myself saying that the people of Koguryo were Han Chinese. I recall reading a Jared Diamond article saying that the inhabitants of Paekche and Koguryo were the ancestors of the Japanese. Their languages showed closer similarity to ancient Japanese than to ancient Korean, and after

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a difference, but I'm not sure if it's a terribly significant one. (Further, adding "hotel" as a negative parameter brings to total for Changbai/Changbaishan down to 38,300). If I have missed a common Chinese spelling, please correct me. Given these results, and given the above-mentioned ambiguity

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To reuse Good_friend100's argument, since the mountain range is already at Changbai Mountains, it would be confusing for the most prominent mountain to feature the name using a different romanization system. So for consistency's sake, shouldn't the name of the highest peak be in the same romanization

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Anyway, no one is coercing SK to keep it's relationships with the PRC. SK didn't even start diplomatic relations with them till the 1980's. I'm certainly no communist stooge, so if you would rather trade with Taiwan instead, feel perfectly free to switch relations. The PRC would obviously rather not

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Then you can explain why China is so aggresively claiming Goguryeo and Baekdu mountain as their own. I always wonder if the Chinese historians and proffessors who study the ethnicity of Goguryeo ever feel guilty, but there's also another probability that the government forces them to study and claim

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Proof of the last one? Filtering out the term "hotel" from both terms still raise large degree of difference. All the others you raised might be true, but regardless, the conclusion you admitted yourself is exactly that Changbai Mountain is the more common English name, and Baekdu isn't. Changbai is

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Of course you would get 144,000 hits since "Changbai" can mean almost anything since you left out "shan" (which means mountain, right?). This "tactic" that I use does not apply to Changbaishan because "Changbai" technically does not mean the mountain anymore. Baekdu Mountain simply has several ways

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The issue about South Korea and the PRC's economic relations is already finished. I mentioned how China is still interested in controlling Taiwan. Any communist country likes to see the spread of communism. Thats why China is playing their cards for Taiwan and North Korea as well. Communist ideals

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were manned by Korean guards. Of the 148 Koreans convicted of war crimes in the Tokyo Trials, the Korean government has cleared 83 of them from crimes. These weren't guards who were just doint their jobs, but people who were exceptionally overzealous and committed crimes against humanity above and

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Baitoushan is the Chinese pronounciation of the Korean Baekdusan(백두산/白頭山). Why would anyone use the Chinese pronounciation for a Korean mountain?! And as for the "Changbai Mountain" thing, no one (except China) uses that title to name Korea's Baekdu Mountain- if you want more info, refer to early

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If you want to critisize "socialism", critisize your northern bretheren too. Oh, and don't call us communists. There is a difference between communism and socialism - socialism is the 2nd stage in Marxist theory; Communism is the 3rd stage, where everything in stores are free (i.e. utopia), which

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The reason why I think China is claiming Goguryeo is because the fact the Goguryeo smeared the Chinese into the ground in the endless wars China waged on Goguryeo. It would be great for China to see Goguryeo as their own ethnicity since that would mean Korea never defeated China and the wars were

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From where I'm standing, I see you making emotional appeals but not valid points. Might I ask you why you think we should ignore these facts? As I see it, those encyclopedias aren't controversial, but you're trying to make it so. On the other hand, I do see that some people who do oppose the move

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filtered against Knowledge (XXG). I do learn, slowly. :-) As for the hotel, I'm not sure either; but regardless, the difference between the Korean and Chinese frequencies just doesn't seem very striking; it's not the kind of difference that would suggest that one name has become established in

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Also, Visviva, i don't neccessarily agree that the term "hotel" need to be filtered from the search, since the hotel actually does appear to be located in Changbai, and thus is a legitimate hit for Changbai mountain. It doesn't appear to be a case where the hotel refers to a different location or

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If you hate Chinese people as much as you seemingly do, shouldn't you be happy that China is continuing down its current path where it should (according to you) eventually destroy itself? Me, I have no apologies to make for communism. The elder members of my family served the nationalists in the

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Do you even know that Chinese border guards repeatedly shoot and kill Tibeten and other travellers today whenever they see them. Its not well known because the government obviously allows this but keeps it secret. I watched this on TV when a Tibeten traveller was filmed on a video camera getting

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I doubt it. No matter how much anyone rants and raves, a country needs to physically send an eighteen-year old with a gun to plant his country's flag on a piece of land before it actually owns it. Obviously, they don't actually have the ability to do this to China (biggest army in the world) or

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This page name should be CHANGBAI. right now the Korea nationlism have pose a grave threat to all neighboring countries. This should to sounding alarm to everyone. and has to be watched closed. korean nationlism is troublesome, and potentially very dangerous, more dangerous than Kim the second's

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I proposed the move not to "make things hard" for you, but obviously because I think I'm right and you're wrong, and I think I'm able to show it. Don't confuse disagreement with hostility, or all of Knowledge (XXG) might be a massive flamefest. Good_friend100, if a simple page rename proposal is

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So I'm emotional, eh? And you are offering mediation while blatently rejecting all others? And China's plan to make a Changbai airport and to hold olympic games at Changbai mountain is just to advertise the mountain itself, its not really important in this article. Chonji obviously will not move

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of the weaknesses of trying to use Google to determine encyclopedic usage. Setting aside for a moment that Baekdu has multiple transliterations (e.g. "Baekdu," "Baekdusan," "Paekdu," "Paekdusan," "Paektu," "Paektusan") that are not given in the above results, Google does not weigh the relative

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I did in fact know about Chinese soldiers in Korea, and I never attempted to exonerate them. I suppose you'd probably not rather have had their help in Korea. China would have been better off for it, as well. They were fighting three simultaneous uprisings at the time, which was why the emperor

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I'm against this. First, Baekdusan is usually written "Paekdusan" so your searches should have no results. Also, most of your searches should result in the Mountain Ranges, not the mountain itself. i have done similiar searches, and there's hardly any hits of the "Changbaishan" for the mountain

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THIS ARTICLE SHOULD BE CALLED BAEKDU MOUNTAIN OR BAEK DOO SAN. CHINESE NAME CHANGBAI SAN OR MOUNTAIN SHOULD BE LEFT OUT COMPLETELY. WHEN DID PEOPLE START CALLING BAEK DOO SAN OR BAEK DU MOUNTAIN CHINESE NAME CHANGBAI SAN????? PROBABLY RECENTLY. THIS ARTICLE BELONGS TO KOREA. ARTICLE SHOULD BE

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And I have have the greatest respect for the general who defeated the Chinese armies. He was a fine general, and I regard him as the East Asian equivalent of Hannibal. Even in ancient China, Chinese generals respected the skills and courage of their enemies. The Tang Dynasty certainly did, and

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is completed in 2008. So if I advocate this name as well based on consistency, common usage on the net, common usage on other enclopedic sources, then I'm being difficult? Most other encyclopedias use Changbai for the name, and not Baekdu. A short search on Google scholar will reveal that

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No, Good friend100, the Chinese usage would be 长白山. Only one English title for the article is possible, so combining different romanizations and different spellings makes little sense. And pointing out facts is "making it hard"? As I showed, all other encyclopedias (you know, all the

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Japan (second biggest navy in the world), nor do Japan or China have the ability to invade the other two, either. Politicians may pander to nationalism to gain votes, but once in office they tend to realize very quickly the importance of good relations with neighboring countries.--

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I'm going to suggest that Korea (north or south) and China have both done bad things in the past and also say that no country is ever perfect and has its own bad markings in its gradebook. Let's just leave it that both Korea and China have made good and bad decisions in the past.

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Could we move this article to "Baekdusan"? The Knowledge (XXG) naming conventions for Korean states that all mountains should have a "san" after the mountain's name. Most other Korean articles on Korean mountains are named using this, and I agree that the article must be moved.

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is a bit of a red herring, methinks, since that "range" is hardly ever referred to as the "Baekdu Mountains," while the range around Baekdu/Baitou is almost always referred to as the "Changbai (or Changbaek or Jangbaek) Mountains." This is getting a bit off-topic, but compare

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After some discussion on another page, some checking shows that Changbai is more common of a name than Baekdu. Search on Britannica shows gives this link on searching for Changbai www.britannica.com/eb/article-9022423/Chang-pai-Mountains, but searches for Baekdu yield nothing.

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trade or have ties with any country that does, of course, but that's within their rights as well. Don't think I'm holding you back. Go ahead and give your president a call (today, if possible!), and tell him to end all relations with the mainland and recognize Taiwan instead.

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UNESCO and Encyclopedia Britannica uses "Mount Paekdu", but it's for show respect to North Koreans and Chinese Koreans, who uses the Chosŏn Kwahagwŏn or ISO11941 romanization. These Koreans, along with Manchus in China, considers Baitou Mountain to be a sacred mountain.

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Also, since when did the Han Chinese have Baekdusan under their control? It was only after PRC got the whole of Manchuria. Han Nationalists will argue that they had Manchuria during the Han and Tang age, but the poblem is that both dynasties never went that far east.

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So are you saying China doesn't actually physically own its part of the mountain currently? Anyway, I think current relations between the East Asian countries are already pretty good. I can't imagine any of them fighting a war in the future, not even Taiwan and the

3051:(WP:NCGN), we should not name articles solely based on search engine results. We should also avoid arguing what the place ought to be named based on significance to specific region's history and culture. Rather, we should base on usages in reliable sources. See 1958:

are getting emotional by writing a lot and throwing questions at me. Your attitude doesn't help either. Its all right or its all wrong for you. I'll consider stepping back, since your response is all sharp and hammered down simply because you wish to move the

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I'm not anti-American, I'm pro-American. You can make fun of all the Koreans who hate the U.S and sympathize with North Korean communists, I don't care, I'm not offended (but I do hate the anti American Koreans, like you said, America defended democracy in

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Good friend100, you cannot use Cold War-era red scare MacCarthyism to critisize a country. You seem to have a stigma against socialist countries. The ROC (Taiwan) claims Paektu/Changbai as well. You are an excellent specimen of nationalism gone wrong.

1811:"our primary consideration should be English usage, not Chinese or Korean usage." The we should use "white headed mountain" if that is what you truly mean. "Changbaishan" is definitely Chinese, it doesn't make sense that you want to move this page. 1997:

Changbai. What would he naturally search on Knowledge (XXG)? Changbai, of course. Or suppose he sees "Baekdu Mountain" on Knowledge (XXG), and wants to confirm it on another encyclopedia. He goes to Encarta encyclopedia, types in "Baekdu", and gets

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You should know that many of the Koreans who worked for the Japanese during WWII were forced to, bribed, or because they needed to support their family. I'm not stupid, I am very interested in WWII and I know about Korean criminals who worked for

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civil war, and then fought for the US forces in the Korean War. And yet as anti-communist as they are, none would hope to see their former homeland divided into two. The issue of reunification is seperate from that of proliferating communism.--

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Its not possible for a war between Taiwan and the PRC? Do you know what Communist countries want? They want a communist spread around the world. The PRC has repeatedly threatened to attack Taiwan by force even though the U.S has passed the

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It does not support the far-right South Korean nationalists, who claim Baitou Mountain to be a South Korean territory and use their new-created name "Baekdu". So your claim that those source support your "Baekdu" naming is fake, false and

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Have you seen China attempt to spread any communism any time in the last 30+ years? Care to give an example? Not that I don't believe you, I just want to hear an example. Do you mean when it joined the WTO? Or opened up Special Economic

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If you really want to play the oppression olympics, I can up the ante. I suppose you probably didn't know about Korea's WW2 war criminals? Koreans in the Japanese armies served in many POW camps, which had mortality rates as high as

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That's right, but what's your concept of widely accepted names? i.e. How do you prove "Beakdu" to be a widely accepted name? Even in Google Scholar, Baitoushan is the most common name. Plus, that Baitoushan+"Baitou Mountain" hits :

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I haven't realized that Google, Altavista, MSN, Britannica, Encarta, and Columbia have all joined hands in aiding my historial revisionism and Han nationalism. My Google-fu must be strong indeed for me to have gained such allies.

2032:, and so on. Please make no more arguments in favor of supporting your argument by combining different romanizations such as paektusan, paekdusan, baekdusan, etc, unless you believe such a tactic is fair for me to use as well. -- 1921:

Also, you cannot ignore the search results General Tiger has produced. It is also important to point out that "Baekdusan" can be spelled out or named in several different names, considering how a book or internet site spells it.

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I'm anti North Korea. It is easy to tell the difference between North and South Korea. South Korea does not shoot refugees fleeing north or commit crimes. The communist government of North Korea has problems not South Korea.

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Again, I have already asked, why do we have to go into this? Instead of heating up, why not just throw all the possible names for this article to an ambiguity page when somone searches for "Chonji" or "Tianchi" or whatever.

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talk page, why do you make it so hard here? Why the hassle? We don't need to move the page. Its perfectly fine the way it is, there are no controversies (save the one you began), and this article does not a have a problem.

2153:) into their armies. Betcha didn't know that after the failed invasion of Korea, some defeated Japanese soldiers were recruited into the Ming armies where they later helped fight against rebellions in western China. 153: 2972:

importance of the topic under each name. To an English encyclopedic audience, Baekdu's status as Korea's highest mountain and its role in Korean history and culture give the Korean transliteration greater weight

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Here is a list of references presented by Deiaemeth in the previous discussion which resulted the article moved here from Baitou Mountain. None of them use "-san" form and "Mount -" form is the most common usage.

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Internal struggles in China does not mean it gives Chinese soldiers the right to do whatever they wanted to do in Korea. Also, Chosun sent Korean arquebuse soldiers to China to repel barbarian attacks from

3087:: That's right, but none of you presented "Baekdu" to be common with reliable sources, even though DandanxD presented that "Paektu" is a common name (not the sole, Changbai and Baitou are also common). –– 2899: 2019:

Also note that I don't propose combining different romanizations from Chinese, either. I'm not a hypocrite. If I did, the results would be even more overwhelmingly in favor. Changbai yields 144,000 hits

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a move. Same as above. Also, 'Changbai Mountain' can refer to the mountain ranges for which it shares the same name in Chinese. If a change did occur, it should be changed to "Pektu Mountain". --

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I agree. We should be consistent with naming Baekdusan. If users search for "Mt. Baekdu" then it can link directly to "Baekdusan," and maybe people will learn a little history behind "Baekdusan."

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call for a spread of communism and thats what the Soviet Union tried to do. And I'm referring to the government of China, not its economy (I'm already aware of China's economic zones and the WTO).

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because "Chonji" is the clearest title for that article. This article does not need to move because there is no point having a Korean lake on top of a Chinese mountain. Do you understand that?

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Your claim is challanging but false: Baitou Mountain is not a variant of Baekdu. However, both Baitou (white-head) and Changbai (long white) are variants of Shanggiyan Alin (white mountain).

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Will all involved please filter Knowledge (XXG) from their search terms by using the command "-wikipedia"? Knowledge (XXG) hits greatly inflate search terms. For example, searching for

3573: 754: 412: 3558: 3304:, Paektu/Baekdu does not satisfy #1 as Britannica and Columbia also uses Baitou or Changbai for China-related articles. I don't have time to research further at the moment. -- 831: 1764:), so Baekdu isn't any more unambiguous than Changbai is. Given that both names contain a degree of ambiguity, I prefer that we keept the name at the more common version. -- 1834:) use Changbai as the name, and Changbai enjoys a clear majority in usage on the web. I suspect that the English-language usage of "Changbai" will only increase, once the 3048: 147: 1939:

drawing such an emotional reaction from you, perhaps you need to take a step back and reconsider whether or not you're really approaching this issue in a NPOV manner. --

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The mountain isn't a "Korean mountain"; China owns half of it, and has owned its portion of it for centuries. The name Changba is used by the following encyclopedias.

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This convention applies to mountains without an accepted English name. If a different name has been established in common English usage, it should be used, per

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professional research papers favor "Changbai" as well. Are you saying all those other encyclopedias, web pages, and research papers are wrong and you're right?

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Encyclopædia Britannica uses "Mount Paektu" or "Paektu Mountain" www.britannica.com/search?query=paektu+&ct=&searchSubmit.x=11&searchSubmit.y=11

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Encyclopædia Britannica uses "Mount Paektu" or "Paektu Mountain" www.britannica.com/search?query=paektu+&ct=&searchSubmit.x=11&searchSubmit.y=11

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If you want me to answer for crimes committed hundreds of years ago (and which I took no part in), then care to answer for something done only last year?--

375:. Feel free to try to improve the article, but don't take it personally if your changes are reversed; instead, come here to the talk page to discuss them. 1683: 585: 3588: 1994:

Also, think about it from a user's perspective, someone who just wants to learn, but not to edit. He goes to encyclopedia Encarta, and sees a picture of

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You're absolutely right. That should be the last thing on our minds. Keeping Baekdu Mountain from turning into "changbaishan" is of greatest priority.

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www.britannica.com/search?query=Baekdu&ct=&searchSubmit.x=0&searchSubmit.y=0 Searches on Encyclopeida Encarta give these hits for Changbai

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google:"Baekdu Mountain" OR "Baekdusan" OR "Paekdu Mountain" OR "Paekdusan" OR "Paektu Mountain" OR "Paektusan" -Knowledge (XXG) -"Changbai Mountains"

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Also, I never mentioned anything about encyclopedias. I am reffering to your googe searches, which cannot determine everything (as seen in the

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Baitou and Paekdu/Paektu may be a plausible name, but Paekdu/Paektu is not as common as Baitou, so I'm in favor of the name "Baitou Mountain".

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and Baitou (not Changbai) and Britannica uses Paektu www.britannica.com/search?query=Paektu&ct=&searchSubmit.x=0&searchSubmit.y=0

3603: 2698: 2628: 1730: 1545: 1469: 1055: 2748: 1472: 30: 1501: 1202: 1019:, an attempt at creating a standardized, informative and easy-to-use ornithological resource. If you would like to participate, visit the 3608: 3563: 3543: 2030: 1434: 1234: 1024: 589: 494: 3583: 1392: 2423: 1242: 926: 900: 839: 826: 787: 709: 670: 378: 366: 99: 1478: 1134: 104: 20: 2642:

Could anybody tell me why a place in China should name in Korean? And this place is usually called as "Baitoushan" in English. --

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shot. Who knows why China is so antsy about their border when a few harmless travellers climbing over a mountain is shot dead?

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As pointed out by Kusunose's list above, this article should probably be renamed Mount Paektu. Paektu is the North Korean and

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Just a suggestion, no need to start throwing supporting facts. If Baekdu Mountain is good enough, then its perfectly fine.

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to defend Taiwan's democracy from communism. Communism doesn't work, and in the end, it will bring any country to rubble.

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First you should know that Paektusan, Paekdusan, Baekdusan, etc mean all the same thing. The tallest mountain in Korea.

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related articles on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join

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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

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Goguryeo as their own. You get pretty disgusted when you see a country claiming another country's culture and history.

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Therefore, we should include the name Changbaishan in the article itself, but put the title as Baekdusan or the such.

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If we look at the above searches, it seems that the two versions are similar. therefore, we have a bit of a deadlock.

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is merely a Korean transcription of Baitou Mountain, thus not referential. Your claim that authorities uses the name

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get tired of eating grass and tree bark and flee north? Apply the same towards China, and your question is answered.

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That's probably not for any of the discussants here to decide absent a clear consensus. That's why we have the

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google searches and/or encyclopedia searches will most likely bring up "Changbaishan" because of the fact that

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Yuje, I have to say that I'm pretty tired of you Han nationalist views. Please leave Korean things alone. --

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Koree things? Like Chinese characters, Confucius, Dragon Boat festival, Japan, China, Mongolia, Siberia?

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on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join

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Betcha didn't know Chinese soldiers raped and pillaged Koreans when the came to help the Korean army.

1835: 1320: 2184: 1605: 1078: 2744:, the mountain range. For this specific mountain, Encarta uses Paektu (variant spelling of Baekdu): 2440: 1648:, and a google search that removes Wiki terms has only one mention of such a name for the mountain. 1146: 398: 372: 3424: 3361: 3072: 2981: 2768: 2751: 2690: 2643: 2584: 2559: 2443: 2409: 2375: 2314: 2195: 2092: 2053: 1995: 1974: 1923: 1913: 1820: 1316: 1290: 161: 1615:

1) Even the Chinese sometimes uses the Korean style of White-headed Mountain (which, according to

1382: 834:. If you would like to participate, you can choose to edit the article attached to this page (see 3186: 3003: 2856: 2741: 2713: 2652: 2418:

I oppose. "Baekdusan" is not a common form in English. The most common form is "Mt. Baekdu". Per

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3) The highest peak of the mountain is in North Korea, which is on the southern side of Cheonji.

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Hi, I recently gave the article a once-over (Apr 2023), but there’s still a lot of work left.

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their defeat by Shilla, refugees fleeing to Japan developed into the modern Japanese people.

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WRITTEN BAEKDU MOUNTAIN OR BAEKDUSAN. NO EXCEPTIONAL WORD LIKE CHANGBAI SAN OR MOUNTAIN.

2511: 1286: 636: 24: 3414: 3297: 3179: 2524: 2745: 1645: 1274: 1216: 1156: 1115: 1426: 3487: 3305: 3182: 3149: 3056: 2999: 2680: 2598: 2492: 2472: 2427: 2228: 2138: 1690:. To my knowledge, the Korean name is unambiguous, and is therefore preferable. -- 1230: 1226: 2388:

didn't seem to work. To this date, there is no such country as a communist country.

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was not originally presented as an option and doesn't appear to have consensus. —

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59,600 hits on Google for Changbai mountain on Google, 10,900 for Baekdu mountain.

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I'm not sure if that first request was directed at me, but my search links above

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term. Furthermore, "Baekdu" refers to a mountain range as well, (wiki article at

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Like that, I may call it "Mount Yu Hai" in my home. Does it have any notability?

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And what is Gurdian and Fotosearch anyway? They do not have enough notability.

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Oyo, you need to be quiet, your word choice needs to be more carefully chosen.

1706:---mountain+baekdu+OR+paekdu+OR+paektu+OR+baekdusan+OR+paektusan+OR+paekdusan+- 1491:

14,400 hits for Changbai mountain on Altavista, 2,000 hits for Baekdu mountain

919: 894: 802: 781: 695: 1342: 1212: 992: 808: 691: 467: 2702: 2354: 2242: 2168: 2142: 2068: 2033: 1940: 1846: 1765: 1652: 1559: 1507: 1248: 1221: 1208: 1164: 1152: 1468:. Searches on Columbia Encyclopedia give the follwing articles on Changbai 387:

when adding content and consider tagging or removing unsourced information.

323: 259: 221: 3377:, so do you think there will be any further progress on the discussion? –– 1370: 1304: 1182: 3479: 3431: 3395: 3373:

This discussion has been without new post for several days, even though

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Also the grammar in the geology and history sections is still spotty.

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In no cases is "Baekdu Mountain" more common than "Changbai Mountain".

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14,200 hits for Changbai mountain on Yahoo, 2,010 for Baekdu mountain

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mention of Changbai in the first line can solve any other issues. —

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The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal.

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We don't hear a lot from North Korea (apart from their nuke problem)

1909:

There are many hotels and/or restaurants named after "Changbaishan"

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6,184 hits for Changbai mountain on MSN, 1,707 for Baekdu mountain

3441:

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal.

3152:- please remember to read the earlier discussions before posting: 2873:

google:"Šanggiyan Mountain" -Knowledge (XXG) -"Changbai Mountains"

580: 578:, a collaborative effort to build and improve articles related to 490: 2863:

google:"Changbai Mountain" -Knowledge (XXG) -"Changbai Mountains"

2826:

google:"Changbai Mountain" -Knowledge (XXG) -"Changbai Mountains"

2900:

google:"Šanggiyan Mountain" -Knowledge (XXG) -"Beakdu Mountains"

2824:

The article claims “Beakdu Mountain” to be the common name, but

1581:, and other such unrelated hits, so I did another search below) 2894:

google:"Changbai Mountain" -Knowledge (XXG) -"Beakdu Mountains"

2879:

google:"Baekdu Mountain" -Knowledge (XXG) -"Changbai Mountains"

2830:

google:"Baekdu Mountain" -Knowledge (XXG) -"Changbai Mountains"

592:. For instructions on how use this banner, please refer to the 3461:

I put request for updated info on upcoming eruption research.

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google:"Baekdu Mountain" -Knowledge (XXG) -"Beakdu Mountains"

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gives over 10,000 hits, but removing wikipedia produces only

1575:(but we need to take out the Changbaishan hotel, 9,920 hits 635: 3352:

until this discussion has concluded and been adjudicated.

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gets 35,900. Why is “Beakdu Mountain” the common name? ––

3170:

American University uses "Mount Paektu" or "Mt. Paektu"

2515:

American University uses "Mount Paektu" or "Mt. Paektu"

2424:

Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject Mountains#Naming conventions

2137:

incorporated foreign soldiers from places like Xianbei (

842:

where you can join the project and/or contribute to the

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Changbai is also plausible, I'm in favor of it, too. ––

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The mountain can only be accessed in the Chinese side.

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itself, without any connection to the mountain range.

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Knowledge (XXG):Naming conventions (geographic names)

2461:

Knowledge (XXG):Naming conventions (Korean)#Mountains

2442:

in the Knowledge (XXG) naming conventions for Korea.

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thanks to anyone that can help address these issues

3467:

finally article is also currently a bit repetitive.

713:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of 489:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of 3519:

Knowledge (XXG) level-5 vital articles in Geography

174: 1612:However, I advocate the Baekdusan variates since 3539:C-Class China-related articles of High-importance 2420:Knowledge (XXG):Naming conventions (common names) 1688:Knowledge (XXG):Naming conventions (common names) 1617:Knowledge (XXG):Naming conventions (common names) 3375:I tried to let everyone not to evade the problem 2426:, I propose it to be moved to "Mount Baekdu". -- 929:, a project which is currently considered to be 33:for general discussion of the article's subject. 1416:). Add taxonomic authorities to genus articles. 3574:High-importance WikiProject Volcanoes articles 1684:Knowledge (XXG):Naming conventions (precision) 334:This page has archives. Sections older than 8: 3071:that we should go with reliable sources. — 2923:google:"Šanggiyan Mountain" -Knowledge (XXG) 1782:common usage, while the other has not. The 3559:WikiProject Korea North Korea working group 3509:Knowledge (XXG) vital articles in Geography 3356:was not even your requested target. Visit 2917:google:"Changbai Mountain" -Knowledge (XXG) 2651:Is "Changbai Mountain" common in English?-- 1471:, but searches for Baekdu turn up nothing. 2191:How sad. I feel sorry for the Taiwanese. 1903:North Korean tourism is very very limited. 1123:Here are some tasks awaiting attention: 1073: 960: 889: 776: 659: 540: 435: 231: 3122:that Baekdusan+"Baekdu Mountain" hits. –– 2929:google:"Baekdu Mountain" -Knowledge (XXG) 1619:, should give Baekdusan variates a hand) 1431:Category:Birds articles needing attention 3019:gets 36,800, far lesser than 286,000. –– 584:. All interested editors are invited to 2029:, Changbai mountain yields 40,200 hits 1876:Japanese invasions of Korea (1592-1598) 962: 891: 778: 661: 542: 437: 396: 3569:C-Class WikiProject Volcanoes articles 3534:High-importance China-related articles 3504:Knowledge (XXG) level-5 vital articles 1435:Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject Birds/Todo 830:, a project to systematically present 344:when more than 5 sections are present. 3554:Top-importance Korea-related articles 2740:Actually, Yuje's links are about the 941:Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject East Asia 852:Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject Mountains 739:Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject Volcanoes 7: 3494:Knowledge (XXG) controversial topics 3178:All States Flag uses "mount paektu" 2523:All States Flag uses "mount paektu" 1791:(most of which are accidental) with 925:This article is within the scope of 838:for more information), or visit the 707:This article is within the scope of 572:This article is within the scope of 483:This article is within the scope of 3524:C-Class vital articles in Geography 3348:. How about taking it easy on the 2767:, not the subject of this article. 426:It is of interest to the following 23:for discussing improvements to the 2026:, Changbaishan yields 46,800 hits 1954:Hm interesting response. It seems 1393:The Institute for Bird Populations 14: 3589:High-importance Mountain articles 2091:simply between Chinese kingdoms. 1135:Endemic birds of Papua New Guinea 1040:Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject Birds 602:Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject Korea 503:Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject China 338:may be automatically archived by 50:New to Knowledge (XXG)? Welcome! 2467:Knowledge (XXG):Use common names 1663:the various Korean romanizations 1114: 995: 985: 964: 918: 893: 811: 801: 780: 694: 684: 663: 565: 544: 470: 460: 439: 406: 397: 353: 286: 235: 205: 45:Click here to start a new topic. 3594:All WikiProject Mountains pages 3579:All WikiProject Volcanoes pages 2023:, Chang bai yields 17,000 hits 1060:This article has been rated as 872:This article has been rated as 759:This article has been rated as 622:This article has been rated as 523:This article has been rated as 377:Content must be written from a 361:The subject of this article is 3549:C-Class Korea-related articles 3529:C-Class China-related articles 3514:C-Class level-5 vital articles 3379: 3315: 3266: 3241: 3124: 3089: 3021: 2942: 2834: 2679:posts regarding this issue. -- 1027:and see a list of open tasks. 944:Template:WikiProject East Asia 855:Template:WikiProject Mountains 745:WikiProject Volcanoes articles 742:Template:WikiProject Volcanoes 1: 3302:WP:NCGN#Widely accepted names 3165:Fotosearch uses "mt. baekdu" 3053:WP:NCGN#Widely accepted names 2674:12:04, 27 February 2007 (UTC) 2647:06:51, 25 February 2007 (UTC) 2510:Fotosearch uses "mt. baekdu" 1703:Look at your search string--- 1639:06:41, 7 October 2006 (UTC) 1527:03:55, 7 October 2006 (UTC) 1427:the project's cleanup listing 1414:search Flickr for free images 733:and see a list of open tasks. 644:This article is supported by 497:and see a list of open tasks. 42:Put new text under old text. 3604:Low-importance bird articles 3160:Gurdian uses "Mount Paekdu" 2967:a move. This is an example 2890:“Beakdu Mountains” blocked: 2761:most common English spelling 2633:06:59, 14 October 2009 (UTC) 2588:00:18, 5 December 2006 (UTC) 2573:05:01, 15 October 2006 (UTC) 2563:01:38, 15 October 2006 (UTC) 2547:12:02, 14 October 2006 (UTC) 2505:Gurdian uses "Mount Paekdu" 2496:06:02, 14 October 2006 (UTC) 2476:03:09, 14 October 2006 (UTC) 2447:02:28, 14 October 2006 (UTC) 2431:01:00, 14 October 2006 (UTC) 2413:19:51, 13 October 2006 (UTC) 2358:02:32, 6 February 2007 (UTC) 2318:15:33, 5 February 2007 (UTC) 2246:00:48, 5 February 2007 (UTC) 2199:16:41, 4 February 2007 (UTC) 2172:00:35, 4 February 2007 (UTC) 2096:21:08, 3 February 2007 (UTC) 2072:05:45, 3 February 2007 (UTC) 2057:21:02, 10 October 2006 (UTC) 1739:20:45, 1 February 2007 (UTC) 1661:I get about 35,000 hits for 1410:bird articles needing photos 3155:UNESCO uses "Mount Paekdu" 2712:Thanks. I understand now.-- 2500:UNESCO uses "Mount Paekdu" 2037:01:36, 9 October 2006 (UTC) 1978:01:23, 9 October 2006 (UTC) 1944:01:03, 9 October 2006 (UTC) 1927:14:47, 8 October 2006 (UTC) 1917:14:45, 8 October 2006 (UTC) 1850:11:59, 8 October 2006 (UTC) 1824:01:45, 8 October 2006 (UTC) 1804:12:50, 7 October 2006 (UTC) 1769:08:00, 7 October 2006 (UTC) 1695:06:56, 7 October 2006 (UTC) 1656:08:04, 7 October 2006 (UTC) 1584:changbaishan korea: 14,000 1563:05:56, 7 October 2006 (UTC) 1511:21:09, 6 October 2006 (UTC) 371:When updating the article, 3625: 3609:WikiProject Birds articles 3564:WikiProject Korea articles 3544:WikiProject China articles 3480:06:35, 26 April 2023 (UTC) 3432:17:22, 20 April 2011 (UTC) 3396:16:56, 20 April 2011 (UTC) 3369:16:40, 20 April 2011 (UTC) 3332:15:49, 18 April 2011 (UTC) 3309:19:16, 17 April 2011 (UTC) 3283:14:07, 17 April 2011 (UTC) 3258:14:14, 17 April 2011 (UTC) 3191:13:45, 17 April 2011 (UTC) 3141:12:31, 17 April 2011 (UTC) 3106:13:38, 18 April 2011 (UTC) 3080:17:08, 17 April 2011 (UTC) 3060:08:11, 17 April 2011 (UTC) 3038:06:58, 17 April 2011 (UTC) 3008:05:45, 17 April 2011 (UTC) 2989:23:33, 14 April 2011 (UTC) 2974:in quality English sources 2959:13:02, 13 April 2011 (UTC) 2851:12:59, 13 April 2011 (UTC) 2808:22:58, 21 April 2011 (UTC) 2747:Columbia uses both Paektu 2439:Check mountain section at 1799:romanization. Cheers, -- 1665:and about 44,500 hits for 1425:More outstanding tasks at 1066:project's importance scale 1043:Template:WikiProject Birds 878:project's importance scale 765:project's importance scale 628:project's importance scale 605:Template:WikiProject Korea 529:project's importance scale 506:Template:WikiProject China 3584:C-Class Mountain articles 2772:18:57, 2 March 2007 (UTC) 2755:18:36, 2 March 2007 (UTC) 2735:12:59, 2 March 2007 (UTC) 2706:17:38, 2 March 2007 (UTC) 2684:12:04, 2 March 2007 (UTC) 2602:12:08, 2 March 2007 (UTC) 2379:00:00, 3 March 2007 (UTC) 1836:upcoming Changbai airport 1550:12:25, 16 July 2007 (UTC) 1465:, but no hits for Baekdu 1283:Rainbow-bearded Thornbill 1257:Abu Dhabi Falcon Hospital 1072: 1059: 1023:, where you can join the 980: 913: 871: 796: 758: 679: 643: 621: 560: 522: 455: 434: 373:be bold, but not reckless 80:Be welcoming to newcomers 3444:Please do not modify it. 2787:Please do not modify it. 2398:11:57, 7 June 2008 (UTC) 2232:beyond the call of duty. 2052:to spell it in English. 1814:Like I commented at the 1789:"Baekdu Mountains" (~70) 1712:---changbai+changbaishan 832:information on mountains 824:This article is part of 3360:while you're at it. — 3296:and some pages are not 1667:Changbai / Changbaishan 1622:2) We already have the 1604:Baitou Mountain: 3,180 1313:New Caledonian lorikeet 647:WikiProject North Korea 3499:C-Class vital articles 2716:Dunyi Loving the Lotus 2655:Dunyi Loving the Lotus 2597:It is true, though. -- 1686:is more relevant than 1682:, it seems to me that 1389:Ninox boobook ocellata 1253:Driven grouse shooting 640: 608:Korea-related articles 588:and contribute to the 509:China-related articles 365:and content may be in 75:avoid personal attacks 3599:C-Class bird articles 3213:does not make sense: 1729:comment was added by 1578:, the mountain range 1572:changbaishan: 49,900 1536:comment was added by 1359:Chestnut-headed tesia 927:WikiProject East Asia 827:WikiProject Mountains 710:WikiProject Volcanoes 639: 420:on Knowledge (XXG)'s 413:level-5 vital article 379:neutral point of view 199:Auto-archiving period 100:Neutral point of view 2828:gets 286,000, while 2185:Taiwan Relations Act 105:No original research 2976:. Redirects and a 1795:-- and that's just 1793:Baekdudaegan (~570) 1717:DUDE YOU ARE CHEAP! 1569:My google searches 1317:Operation Migration 2857:Changbai Mountains 2742:Changbai Mountains 2227:. Places like the 1680:Changbai Mountains 1624:Changbai Mountains 1599:baekdusan: 11,300 1589:paektusan: 11,600 1309:Scottish crossbill 1279:Semiplumbeous hawk 1077:WikiProject Birds 947:East Asia articles 641: 422:content assessment 86:dispute resolution 47: 3313:Feel the same. –– 2913:Nothing blocked: 2818:Changbai Mountain 2636: 2619:comment added by 1832:professional ones 1742: 1676:Changbai Mountain 1594:paekdusan: 2,260 1553: 1454: 1453: 1450: 1449: 1446: 1445: 1442: 1441: 1423: 1422: 1339:Blyth's frogmouth 1015:WikiProject Birds 959: 958: 955: 954: 888: 887: 884: 883: 858:Mountain articles 775: 774: 771: 770: 723:igneous petrology 658: 657: 654: 653: 575:WikiProject Korea 539: 538: 535: 534: 486:WikiProject China 391: 390: 348: 347: 313: 312: 280: 279: 230: 229: 66:Assume good faith 43: 3616: 3446: 3429: 3400:I don't know but 3392: 3385: 3381: 3366: 3350:unilateral moves 3328: 3321: 3317: 3279: 3272: 3268: 3254: 3247: 3243: 3137: 3130: 3126: 3102: 3095: 3091: 3077: 3034: 3027: 3023: 2986: 2975: 2955: 2948: 2944: 2847: 2840: 2836: 2820: 2789: 2731: 2730: 2722: 2718: 2670: 2669: 2661: 2657: 2635: 2613: 2149:), and Koguryo ( 1724: 1531: 1367:Pallid scops owl 1129:Article requests 1118: 1111: 1110: 1074: 1048: 1047: 1044: 1041: 1038: 1005: 1000: 999: 998: 989: 982: 981: 976: 968: 961: 949: 948: 945: 942: 939: 922: 915: 914: 909: 897: 890: 860: 859: 856: 853: 850: 836:Contributing FAQ 821: 819:Mountains portal 816: 815: 814: 805: 798: 797: 792: 784: 777: 747: 746: 743: 740: 737: 727:related subjects 704: 702:Volcanoes portal 699: 698: 688: 681: 680: 675: 667: 660: 610: 609: 606: 603: 600: 586:join the project 569: 562: 561: 556: 548: 541: 511: 510: 507: 504: 501: 480: 475: 474: 473: 464: 457: 456: 451: 443: 436: 419: 410: 409: 402: 401: 393: 357: 356: 350: 343: 327: 304: 303: 290: 282: 263: 239: 238: 232: 224: 210: 209: 200: 179: 178: 164: 95:Article policies 16: 3624: 3623: 3619: 3618: 3617: 3615: 3614: 3613: 3484: 3483: 3456: 3451: 3442: 3425: 3421:Baitou Mountain 3394: 3390: 3383: 3362: 3354:Baitou Mountain 3330: 3326: 3319: 3281: 3277: 3270: 3256: 3252: 3245: 3139: 3135: 3128: 3104: 3100: 3093: 3073: 3036: 3032: 3025: 2982: 2973: 2957: 2953: 2946: 2849: 2845: 2838: 2816: 2813:Baekdu Mountain 2785: 2779: 2726: 2725: 2720: 2714: 2665: 2664: 2659: 2653: 2621:KoreaBaekDooSan 2614: 2609: 2607:Name of article 2405: 2000:no related hits 1731:142.110.227.162 1725:—The preceding 1538:203.214.116.173 1532:—The preceding 1459: 1419: 1287:Sunda scops owl 1109: 1045: 1042: 1039: 1036: 1035: 1009:Paektu Mountain 1001: 996: 994: 974: 946: 943: 940: 937: 936: 903: 874:High-importance 857: 854: 851: 848: 847: 817: 812: 810: 791:High‑importance 790: 761:High-importance 744: 741: 738: 735: 734: 700: 693: 674:High‑importance 673: 607: 604: 601: 598: 597: 554: 525:High-importance 508: 505: 502: 499: 498: 476: 471: 469: 450:High‑importance 449: 417: 407: 354: 339: 328: 322: 295: 264: 258: 236: 226: 225: 220: 197: 121: 116: 115: 114: 91: 61: 25:Paektu Mountain 12: 11: 5: 3622: 3620: 3612: 3611: 3606: 3601: 3596: 3591: 3586: 3581: 3576: 3571: 3566: 3561: 3556: 3551: 3546: 3541: 3536: 3531: 3526: 3521: 3516: 3511: 3506: 3501: 3496: 3486: 3485: 3455: 3452: 3450: 3449: 3438: 3437: 3436: 3435: 3434: 3418: 3406: 3405: 3404: 3403: 3402: 3401: 3388: 3341: 3340: 3339: 3338: 3337: 3336: 3335: 3334: 3324: 3275: 3261: 3260: 3250: 3237: 3234: 3233: 3232: 3231: 3230: 3224: 3223: 3222: 3221:inappropriate. 3198: 3197: 3196: 3195: 3194: 3193: 3176: 3173: 3168: 3163: 3158: 3133: 3114: 3113: 3112: 3111: 3110: 3109: 3108: 3098: 3063: 3062: 3041: 3040: 3030: 3010: 2992: 2991: 2969:par excellance 2951: 2938: 2937: 2934: 2933: 2932: 2926: 2920: 2911: 2910: 2909: 2903: 2897: 2888: 2887: 2886: 2876: 2870: 2843: 2793: 2792: 2780: 2778: 2775: 2738: 2737: 2709: 2708: 2639: 2608: 2605: 2595: 2594: 2593: 2592: 2591: 2590: 2585:Good friend100 2576: 2575: 2560:Good friend100 2556: 2555: 2554: 2553: 2552: 2551: 2550: 2549: 2533: 2532: 2531: 2530: 2529: 2528: 2527: 2526: 2521: 2518: 2513: 2508: 2503: 2483: 2482: 2481: 2480: 2479: 2478: 2452: 2451: 2450: 2449: 2444:Good friend100 2434: 2433: 2410:Good friend100 2404: 2403:Requested move 2401: 2376:Good friend100 2367: 2366: 2365: 2364: 2363: 2362: 2361: 2360: 2343: 2342: 2341: 2340: 2339: 2338: 2337: 2336: 2325: 2324: 2323: 2322: 2321: 2320: 2315:Good friend100 2305: 2304: 2303: 2302: 2301: 2300: 2291: 2290: 2289: 2288: 2287: 2286: 2277: 2276: 2275: 2274: 2273: 2272: 2263: 2262: 2261: 2260: 2259: 2258: 2249: 2248: 2219: 2218: 2213: 2212: 2207: 2206: 2196:Good friend100 2181: 2179: 2178: 2177: 2176: 2175: 2174: 2159: 2158: 2157: 2156: 2155: 2154: 2129: 2128: 2127: 2126: 2125: 2124: 2115: 2114: 2113: 2112: 2111: 2110: 2101: 2100: 2099: 2098: 2093:Good friend100 2085: 2084: 2083: 2082: 2075: 2074: 2054:Good friend100 2046: 2045: 2044: 2043: 2042: 2041: 2040: 2039: 2010: 2009: 2008: 2007: 2006: 2005: 2004: 2003: 1985: 1984: 1983: 1982: 1981: 1980: 1975:Good friend100 1965: 1964: 1963: 1962: 1961: 1960: 1947: 1946: 1935: 1934: 1924:Good friend100 1914:Good friend100 1911: 1910: 1907: 1904: 1901: 1897: 1896: 1895: 1894: 1893: 1892: 1884: 1883: 1882: 1881: 1880: 1879: 1867: 1866: 1865: 1864: 1863: 1862: 1853: 1852: 1841: 1840: 1821:Good friend100 1809: 1808: 1807: 1806: 1772: 1771: 1756: 1755: 1721: 1719: 1718: 1714: 1713: 1710: 1707: 1704: 1699: 1659: 1658: 1646:Inner Mongolia 1568: 1566: 1565: 1504: 1503: 1496: 1489: 1482: 1458: 1455: 1452: 1451: 1448: 1447: 1444: 1443: 1440: 1439: 1421: 1420: 1418: 1417: 1408:Add photos to 1400: 1378: 1324: 1294: 1275:Cathartiformes 1264: 1238: 1217:Gouldian finch 1198: 1172: 1157:Vesper sparrow 1142: 1122: 1120: 1119: 1108: 1107: 1102: 1097: 1092: 1086: 1083: 1082: 1070: 1069: 1062:Low-importance 1058: 1052: 1051: 1049: 1033:this template. 1029:Please do not 1007: 1006: 990: 978: 977: 975:Low‑importance 969: 957: 956: 953: 952: 950: 923: 911: 910: 898: 886: 885: 882: 881: 870: 864: 863: 861: 823: 822: 806: 794: 793: 785: 773: 772: 769: 768: 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