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on consensus says that if there is a dispute, it is to be resolved through discussion. So what exactly is your dispute with the Pamela
Anderson comment? You disagreed with it on the grounds that wikipedia isn't supposed to have trivia, but I just showed that is allowed to have trivia. So what are you arguing now? Consensus? Is your latest argument that it shouldn't be added because there is not consensus that it should be added? That's circular logic. It doesn't make sense. What is the original, underlying reason for the lack of consensus about whether or not it should be added? -
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1642:, a person who has changed their surname should not have their husband's surname hyphenated with their maiden name unless the hyphenated surname is the name by which they are best known. Pam has never been called anything other than "Pam Beesly" or "Pam Halpert" throughout the series, so it is clear that "Pam Beesly-Halpert" is not an appropriate title. Since Pam spent almost the entire second half of
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avoid trivia sections, it means that you should avoid putting it all in one section. It doesn't mean you should avoid the trivia. Here's a direct quotation from that policy article: "Don't simply remove such sections, it may be possible to integrate some items into the article in a more organized fashion." -
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I think that instead of saying Pamela Morgan
Halpert (née Beesly), it should just say Pamela Halpert (née Beesly), because her middle name is different in different episodes. For example, in “Phyllis’ Wedding”, the invitation Pam holds up says Pamela Jane Beesly, but in “The Lover”, Michael calls her
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We don't need to put all the interesting facts from the show into
Knowledge (XXG). But I think we should put in all of the interesting facts from the show that people wouldn't have noticed from watching the show, and would need wikipedia to tell them. There aren't very many of them. It's practical to
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Yeah, but it didn't happen. That's like saying "If John F. Kennedy hadn't died he would've ran for a second term." in the JFK article or "If
America lost the war we would live in a Nazi prison state." That's like saying "if Pam didn't reject Jim, they would've been going out for a year." There's no
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The article begins 'Pamela "Pam" Morgan Beesly', while the title is "Pam
Beesley". It just doesn't look right; it needs to be consistent. If we're going with Pamela Morgan Beesly in the article, that indicates that we consider "Beesly" official. If we decide at a later date that "Beesley" is the name
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First, I assume that the person who originally added that information to the article agrees that it should be added. Second, the number of people who disagree with me is also pretty small. The fact that it's larger than one does not negate the fact that it's still small. Third, wikipedia's policy
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What does that have to do with anything? With that rationale you could delete everything, and when people object, you could say that the fact that they think the article was interesting was just their opinion. And I assume that the person who originally posted it agrees that it was worth posting.
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We might add a small section in the article itself mentioning the spelling differences. I just re-watched all of the episodes of The Office and when her name is in print, it's spelled "Beesly" every time (although I did not notice the spelling in the email mentioned above) except the series finale,
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This article is bloated and filled with original research. It's like someone sat at home with their "Office" DVD box set, a remote control, and their laptop and just wrote as much as they possibly could. This article has way too much information, and I don't know where to begin trimming the fat.
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That proves my point. Did you read the article? Maybe you just read the article's title, and then misunderstood it. Like I said before, Knowledge (XXG) policy doesn't say to remove trivia, "it just says to try to integrate trivia into the main body of the article, which this does." When it says
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Also, if you know her name is Pam, and you know his last name is
Anderson, then you shouldn't need the show to tell you explicitly that her name will be Pamela Anderson if she marries him and takes his name. It's like, if the show said that Pam had three apples, and the show said that Roy had four
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Now, am I disputing that JFK would run for a second term? No. Should it be mentioned? No, probably not. I'm merely stating the rationale for facts/conclusions being "interesting" was originally a statement by you. If I don't agree, I can use your rationale you used to remove the info because I
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It's not original research. In the previous edit I cited the source for Roy's last name. The episode
Conflict Resolution. Unless, are you saying that the fact that Roy's last name is Anderson is not original research, and the fact that Pam's first name is Pam is not original research, but it is
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Knowledge (XXG) policy doesn't say trivia is non-encyclopedic, does it? I think it just says to try to integrate trivia into the main body of the article, which this does. What her last name would have been seems no less encyclopedic than anything else in this article. (Most encyclopedias don't
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However, it is arguable that since "Pam Beesly" was her name for more than half the series, that "Beesly" is the more well-known surname, especially considering that the first five seasons were much more popular than the last four. I'm fine with either title, as long as it isn't the current one.
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Just having an entry on a TV character is non-encyclopedic. This isn't a normal encyclopedia. It needs slightly different rules. If there's a fact about the show that's interesting and isn't obvious, it should be included, even if it is trivia. Just because it's the sort of thing that would
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We don't need to put all the facts from the show into
Knowledge (XXG). But I think we should put in all of the facts from the show that people would find interesting, but wouldn't have noticed from watching the show, and would need wikipedia to tell them. There aren't very many of them. It's
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Pam's fiance's last name was
Anderson, which means that if she had married him, her name would've been Pamela Anderson. Mike Payne seems to think that's not worth noting, but I thought it was the best note in the article. The sort of thing that people would find interesting, but wouldn't have
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Okay, I'll re-explain. No, I'm not disputing that JFK would run for a second term. I'm saying that it's an obvious conclusion of a hypothetical situation, that is unencyclopedic in nature, that doesn't need to be mentioned in his article. You said that my example is "obvious and dumb." I'm
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This is different from the examples you cited because this is interesting, and your examples are obvious and dumb. Also, I didn't put two and two together myself in this case. I hadn't realized what her name would be until I read it in
Knowledge (XXG), and when I did I was glad that it was on
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So the makers are inconsistent about the spelling of their own character's name. Well, that's incredibly sloppy and unprofessional, but it's no reason why Knowledge (XXG) should follow suit. We have to settle on one spelling, and stick to it throughout the article. (We can also report that
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original research to say that as a result of that, Pam's name would be Pamela Anderson if she married Roy and took his last name? That's not original research. It's not any kind of research. You shouldn't need to do research to figure that out. It's common sense.
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How old is Pam? I've been watching this page for a week or two, and I've seen people change her age several times. Sometimes to 24, sometimes to 27, sometimes to 28, and on multiple occasions for some of those. Can somebody cite a source and end this argument? -
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The only rationale people have given for it not being encyclopedic is that it's trivia, and trivia isn't encyclopedic. But as I've demonstrated, Knowledge (XXG)'s policy allows for trivia. It just recommends that it shouldn't be in its own separate
297:" per IMDB spelling of character name, and fixed all links (including those which I laboured over to make non-redirects, thinking the correct spelling was actually "Beesley" until doing some research. Sheesh). Please note that "MySpace" is NOT a
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Knowledge (XXG) is about consensus. If no one agreed with me OF COURSE I couldn't keep deleting, if no one agrees with me. When I look at the history of this page, the "Pamela Anderson" comment has been reverted many times by different people.
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The comments and the discussion boards on IMDB are user edited, but the name listings are considered official. One source--Jenna Fischer's MySpace page--lists the spelling as "Beesley." That does not make it official. NBC spells it "Beesly"
398:-Was just watching "Sexual Harassment" and I paused it near the beginning of the episode when Kevin is looking at an email, if you pause it when it shows the computer, Pam has an email on the screen and her name is spelt "Pam Beasly". Eh? --
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point in stating the end result of a hypothetical situation. It could be a fact, but it's frivolous information. Just because you put two and two together and you think it's interesting, doesn't mean it belongs in an encyclopedia. --
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Unfortunately, it being "obvious and dumb" is your opinion. Also "Pamela Anderson" being interesting is also your opinion, which you have yet to find someone who agrees with you. Which is why I'm keeping it off Knowledge (XXG).
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I'm interested to know where she's ever been referred to as Pamela, because Pamela Anderson is not even known as Pam, and Pam Beesly is not known as Pamela, another reason why the Pamela Anderson comment should not be there.
339:. These are considered "reliable" sources--again, MySpace is not (even if it was created by the actress who plays her). The article itself claims " In her Myspace blog, Jenna confirmed that the correct spelling is Beesly."
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It's not some interesting fan-related thing. It's a fact from the show. Exactly the sort of thing that should be in encyclopedias. Also, I checked out Dunderpedia's article on Pam, and it couldn't be less interesting.
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Even if we don't know for sure that the original poster agrees that it's worth posting, I think it's much more likely than not. I find it hilarious that you think that's worth debating. But it doesn't matter anyway. -
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And now we have a source. As if the fact that a woman named Pam is actually called Pamela is worth noting, but the fact that she might have been called Pamela Anderson is not worth noting. The world has gone mad. -
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Virtually every character on this show has an article you could say the same thing about. It's as if people feel the need to write down the synopsis of everything that happens to the character in every new
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Interesting stuff != encyclopedia. For "interesting" stuff, try Dunderpedia. Not picking on Pam specifically; this is a common problem with the Office-related pages. Too fan-focused and not encyclopedic. --
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have articles on characters from TV shows, but this isn't a typical encyclopedia.) Anyway, I put more context about his last name into the article, so hopefully this'll be a more encyclopedic entry. -
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Since I'm rather stupid at this whole Knowledge (XXG) thing and can't do it myself... The references at the bottom show next to the episodes that the show is on ABC whilst it is actually on NBC.
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You can't assume the original poster agrees. He posted it, it was taken down (with reason). Maybe he read the reason, and he agrees with it. which is why he *didn't* put it back up.
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Just making a note that I changed the instances of "Dunder-Mifflin" in this article to read "Dunder Mifflin" (no hyphen) to coincide with the Dunder Mifflin article and etc.
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There are lots of facts from the show. Doesn't mean they all go into Knowledge (XXG). If you think Dunderpedia is so lame, why don't you go help get it off the ground? --
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where it's spelled "Beesley." Are there guidelines for which source(s) to consider definitive concerning which spelling to use for the name of a TV show character?
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This is the same as the conversation we had on the 9th. Fan sites would include fan generated material. That's not what this is. It's a fact from the show. -
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I don't see anyone on your side (here on the talk page). If, as you said, this is a "fact people find interesting," then how come no one is agreeing with you.
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Pam also works part time for dunder mifflin in NYC when she is in art school. I don't know how to add this but just an FYI for someone who might know how.
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fan-generated material. The fact was never stated on the show. It was inferred by fans. (In fact, Roy's last name has never been stated on the show.) --
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apples, then you could list on wikipedia that Pam and Roy together had seven apples without needing the show to explicitly mention the number seven.
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I think you're confusing an encyclopedia with a fan site. The criterion for inclusion in Knowledge (XXG) is notability, not interestingness. --
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I was looking at using one consistent spelling but after seeing that I don't think it matters - the show itself just isn't consistent about it.
1402:'s) appears after her name at the very top. Does anyone know how to get rid of it? It isn't physically written out as "< noinclude : -->
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It doesnt change the fact that no one agrees with you about it's place in this article. you've failed to get one person to agree with you
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MySpace is a reliable source because it is edited by Jenna Fischer who plays Pam. IMDb is not a reliable source, as it is user-edited. --
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practical to include them all. And I see no reason to expand Dunderpedia when we already have articles about The Office on wikipedia. --
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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a
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Why is this level of detail necessary? The only important point is that she gets a new car as part of her "fancy new Beesley" campaign.
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When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
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I'm not sure. She might never have been explicitly referred to as Pamela on the show. But Pam is a common nickname for Pamela. -
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In season 4 episode 1 at 20:30 she says, "almost marrying roy anderson is as close to being pamela anderson as I ever want to be"
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Shouldn't it be Pamela "Pam" Morgan Halpert? I'm pretty sure the quoted nickname is supposed to follow the name it's short for.
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Like the nominator, I'd be fine with either proposed title. But the current one has to go since it was never used on the show.
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Roy's name might not have been mentioned on the show itself, but I assume it was mentioned in a press release or something. -
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And are you seriously disputing the fact that it is obvious that JFK would've run for a second term if he hadn't died? -
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1878:) 04:08, 2 December 2019 (UTC) Also in "Hot Girl" Pam says that her middle name is Susan after the actress Susan Dey.
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For those who don't know, note that Pamela Anderson is the name of a famous actress. That's why it's noteworthy.
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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
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1378:. The coworker relations can be simplified with more info going into her bio. so that's what i'm gonna do. --
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Does it really need all this trivia? I'm trying to edit it, but honestly, I have no idea where to begin. --
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If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with
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on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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Even though I provided the source, I still maintain that this information is non-encyclopedic. --
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The block didn't last forever. Sweet of you to check up on me, though. I didn't know you cared.
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And all of this doesn't really matter because you've been blocked for going against concensus. --
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before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template
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IMDb and TV.com are not reliable but if Jenna admitted that she spelled it wrong, then okay. --
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interest the sort of person who would read this page. That's what the standard should be. -
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noticed from watching the show, and would need wikipedia to tell them. Anybody else agree?
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This falls under the category of non-encyclopedic trivia, please do not replace it.
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applying your opinion to your allegedly interesting fact about Pamela Anderson.
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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a
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Are we allowed to use officequotes.net a source? Not sure about licensing. --
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https://web.archive.org/web/20160527055901/http://www.halpertbeesly.com/baby/
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Now I'm not sure because the NBC Media Village lists Pam as Beesly. --
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I'm inclined to think that that is what we should name the article.
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find it "obvious and dumb." Except in my case, I have consensus.--
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Knowledge (XXG), which is why I'm keeping it on Knowledge (XXG). -
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alternative spellings are found in sources.) Currently, we have:
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we're going with in the article, then feel free to move it back.
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01:33, 7 October 2015 (UTC); edited 06:03, 9 October 2015 (UTC)
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Oh for god's sake. Why don't you reread the entire discussion.
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Do we refer to her as Pam Halpert, or as Pam Beesl(e)y Halpert?
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1403:" in the text, so I need someone to figure that one out. -
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If the latter, are Beesl(e)y and Halpert hyphenated or not?
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for additional information. I made the following changes:
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a
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1370:i think this article should be organized more like
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List of characters from The Office (US T.V. series)
1729:. No further edits should be made to this section.
1234:Your opinion of it being interesting is not enough
153:This article has not yet received a rating on the
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1546:The title of the article should be Pam beesly.
1035:Not all interesting facts are notable. And this
235:Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject Fictional characters
123:. To improve this article, please refer to the
1773:This message was posted before February 2018.
454:: Pam Beesley Halpert (extra e, but no hyphen)
1401:(but without the spaces between the <: -->
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464:Obvious questions requiring resolution are:
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489:Come on folks, this isn't so hard. --
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413:I always thought it was Pam Beasley.
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1327:) 04:52, 7 December 2007 (UTC) HA! -
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1600:The result of the move request was:
1231:First of all, it's not encyclopedic.
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109:This article is within the scope of
282:New link to the variations comments
49:It is of interest to the following
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1765:http://www.halpertbeesly.com/baby
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460:: Pam Halpert née Beesley.
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483:Beesl(e)y Halpert
419:comment added by
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104:Television portal
16:(Redirected from
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1467:Any suggestions?
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1759:Added archive
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1510:Alwaysaparadox
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452:Infobox header
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67:
55:
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37:
24:
14:
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10:
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3:
2:
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1907:
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1886:12.218.158.82
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1495:76.120.75.176
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1420:155.47.147.97
1413:
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1394:
1392:
1391:
1387:
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1382:
1377:
1376:Jack Shephard
1373:
1372:Hiro Nakamura
1365:
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38:
34:
29:
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19:
1880:— Preceding
1868:
1849:
1827:
1824:
1799:source check
1778:
1772:
1769:
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1739:
1721:
1714:
1701:
1696:
1682:
1663:
1647:
1643:
1628:
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1601:
1599:
1587:
1580:
1549:— Preceding
1545:
1542:Pam halpert?
1526:
1507:
1486:
1465:
1446:
1431:
1417:
1399:
1379:
1369:
1355:
1340:
1321:128.61.77.68
1318:
1246:
1167:
1130:
1101:
1036:
836:
811:
698:
627:
535:
525:
488:
482:
478:
463:
457:
451:
445:
439:
415:— Preceding
400:72.133.63.57
397:
375:
371:
292:
280:
263:
216:
172:
110:
51:WikiProjects
1727:move review
1631:Pam Halpert
1593:move review
1555:Caringtype1
1489:—Preceding
382:Jim Halpert
356:theDemonHog
322:theDemonHog
313:theDemonHog
41:Start-class
1903:Categories
1836:Report bug
1745:Pam Beesly
1644:The Office
1636:Pam Beesly
1606:Pam Beesly
1414:References
1358:Fieryrogue
1344:Shaheenjim
1329:Shaheenjim
1299:Shaheenjim
1201:Shaheenjim
1156:Shaheenjim
1115:Shaheenjim
1082:Shaheenjim
1008:Shaheenjim
962:Shaheenjim
931:Shaheenjim
919:Shaheenjim
890:Mike Payne
744:Shaheenjim
665:Shaheenjim
602:Shaheenjim
563:Shaheenjim
538:Shaheenjim
529:Shaheenjim
492:Jack of Oz
295:Pam Beesly
130:Television
75:The Office
70:Television
1819:this tool
1812:this tool
1664:Relisted.
1640:WP:MAIDEN
1405:Spyke1077
1337:Pam's age
1041:Raymondc0
983:Raymondc0
944:Raymondc0
580:Raymondc0
549:Raymondc0
436:Revisited
1882:unsigned
1825:Cheers.—
1704:avarrone
1563:contribs
1551:unsigned
1491:unsigned
1483:episode.
1449:Acsenray
1432:Summeree
1289:section.
506:Shiggity
417:unsigned
380:and for
1749:my edit
1697:Support
1686:Calidum
1667:Natg 19
1610:Jenks24
1529:Dralven
479:Halpert
1852:Zaurus
1638:– Per
1428:Done.
485:, Pam?
386:DOSGuy
350:Wavy G
341:Wavy G
303:Wavy G
273:(talk)
47:scale.
1872:Andhw
1602:moved
446:Title
269:Mrtea
1890:talk
1876:talk
1856:talk
1671:talk
1655:Will
1614:talk
1559:talk
1533:talk
1514:talk
1499:talk
1473:talk
1453:talk
1325:talk
510:talk
458:Lede
425:talk
404:talk
390:talk
286:Pavv
1793:RfC
1763:to
1719:.
1604:to
1384://
1381:EXV
1374:or
1251://
1248:EXV
1172://
1169:EXV
1135://
1132:EXV
841://
838:EXV
703://
700:EXV
632://
629:EXV
149:???
1905::
1892:)
1858:)
1806:.
1801:}}
1797:{{
1673:)
1662:--
1627:→
1616:)
1585:.
1565:)
1561:•
1535:)
1516:)
1501:)
1475:)
1455:)
1388:@
1255:@
1176:@
1139:@
1129:--
1037:is
845:@
707:@
697:--
636:@
512:)
427:)
406:)
392:)
301:.
73::
1888:(
1874:(
1854:(
1838:)
1834:(
1821:.
1814:.
1702:C
1669:(
1653:—
1612:(
1557:(
1531:(
1512:(
1497:(
1471:(
1451:(
1386:+
1323:(
1253:+
1174:+
1137:+
888:-
843:+
705:+
634:+
508:(
423:(
402:(
388:(
177:.
157:.
53::
20:)
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