Talk:Philippine–American War

3387:). A vanishingly small number of Filipino historians and "anti-imperialist" historians may subjectively opine that the "Philippine-American War" extended beyond July 4, 1902 to encompass the entirety of the Moro Rebellion. However, both the "de jure" and "de facto" end date for the historical episode labeled "Philippine-American War" was no later than July 4, 1902 as proclaimed by Presidents Roosevelt and Macapagal-Arroyo. Their proclamations are affirmed by the vast majority of academic literature, all the contemporaneous news articles, and the U.S. Library of Congress with no objection by an equivalent government institution within the Republic of the Philippines. 3199:

absence of a date-reclassification of archival records by the U.S. Library of Congress or an equivalent institution in the Republic of the Philippines, demonstrates that the United States of America was not engaged in a war against the Philippines beyond July 4, 1902. Your position makes a claim that modifies the dates of a historical episode, and since nobody even knows about the claim, you make the further unacknowledged claim that it is now the "primary consensus". You should consider lobbying U.S. Congress or the Congress of the Philippines to modify archival records.

3228:) Maybe I framed my argument incorrectly. In fact the infobox does state that what is "traditionally" considered the Philippine-American War ended in 1902. However, because some writers have argued that the war actually extended beyond that year, as late as 1913, I believe that the dates of the Moro Rebellion (the most prominent and longest of the post-1902 conflicts) be left in the infobox to ease confusions from people who might have initially read from some sources that the war lasted all the way to 1913. To put it another way, it can be argued that the war ended 2028:

concern themselves with. Can you cite particular page numbers in any of those works that declare the "Philippine-American War" ended at some point after July 4, 1902? Why has neither the U.S. Library of Congress nor an equivalent institution in the Republic of the Philippines incorporated this "primary consensus" in their archival records? Furthermore, 5 sources against 11 does not constitute "primary consensus". At best, there is no "academic consensus", and a neutral point of view requires defaulting to official government declarations that have been documented.

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major investigations of "post-1902 campaigns." A novel relabeling of historical episodes proposed by a relatively small body of literature, none of which contain the string "Philippine-American War" in their titles, requires explicit acceptance from the majority of authors who terminated their treatments of the "Philippine-American War" at 1902. Please provide a block quote with page numbers from one of your sources that summarizes the most compelling reason to accept that the military episode labeled "Philippine-American War" actually extended beyond July 4, 1902.

3051:: The titles of these publications alone betray editorial bias. Every sentence in a Knowledge (XXG) article should be a hard fact, devoid of passion and prejudice, supported by reliable sources. How many pages do either of these two sources dedicate to rigorous analysis of the "Philippine-American War"? Divide that number by the total number of pages. If the resulting ratio is small, why should views promoted by these sources be afforded undue weight relative to sources that treat the "Philippine-American War" as their primary topics of investigation? If 1807:" does it explicitly declare an end to hostilities? The passage in the U.S. Congress of a unilaterally drafted bill is not equivalent to an official proclamation of the end of armed conflict. A peace treaty between adversaries or a proclamation by the Commander-in-chief of the winning side would each constitute an "official declaration" that armed conflict has ended. The official end of this particular 'war' should either be April 16, 1902 as proclaimed by a President of the Philippines or July 4, 1902 as proclaimed by a President of the United States. 736: 709: 3844:

clearly that fighting continues "in the country inhabited by the Moro tribes" and that it does not apply there. Section three of the Organic Act, as I read it, allows US presidential war powers to continue to be used in dealing with challenges to US sovereignty other than the conflict his proclamation declared ended -- even though the US military government in the Philippines was being terminated. While I am traveling, I can't get into it much deeper than that but I thought that I ought to say that much at this point.

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articles should explain why this is so, without introducing much detail from the other article. I think that this implies that details such as a list battles from that other conflict do not belong in the infobox of an article about this conflict. I think that edits to action this should be made now, out of consideration for users encountering the articles as they exist now. If discussion brings about a consensus to change this, it can be changed then

3606:"Under U.S. occupation and a war to crush the Philippines independence movement that formally lasted until 1902, hundreds of thousands of Filipino civilians died from direct violence in war, disease, and starvation. Tens of thousands of Filipino combatants and more than 4,200 U.S. soldiers died. Fighting continued sporadically until 1913, likely taking thousands more lives. Most deaths occurred in the Muslim-majority southern islands of Mindanao." 2277:"The Philippine–American War, known alternatively as the Philippine Insurrection, Filipino–American War, or Tagalog Insurgency, was fought between the First Philippine Republic and the United States from February 4, 1899, until July 1, 1902. Tensions arose after the United States annexed the Philippines under the Treaty of Paris at the conclusion of the Spanish–American War rather than acknowledging the Philippines' declaration of independence." 998: 746: 885: 249: 1093: 978: 681: 812: 329: 518: 1034: 219: 1050: 1356:, that conflicts following the end of this declared conflict and after the dissolution of that proclaimed but unrecognized government should be included in the topic, and that these conflicts are covered in other Knowledge (XXG) articles. I don't thinnk such a paragraph is necessary, but differences between editors over such questions are resolved in Knowledge (XXG) according to 398: 590: 579: 568: 557: 3346:

1906 when Sakay and his rebels were captured. I still believe that the dates for both the "main" Philippine-American War (1899-1902) and the Moro Rebellion (1899-1913) should remain in the infobox as it has been since 2009, as the article itself states that some writers argue that the Moro Rebellion (and other post-1902 conflicts) are part of the war.

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in the body of the article that some writers consider events such as the Moro Rebellion as part of the Philippine-American War, which is also reflected on the Moro Rebellion's page. Furthermore, the campaign box lists battles of the war that happened after 1902 and are considered on their respective pages to be a part of the war (see

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United States encounter armed resistance in the Philippine Islands, until otherwise provided by Congress, shall continue ..."). Roosevelt's July 4 proclamation does say that ("the insurrection against the authority and sovereignty of the United States is now at an end, ..."). The April 16 date comes from an assertion by RP president

3880:"...details such as a list battles from that other conflict do not belong in the infobox of an article about this conflict. I think that edits to action this should be made now, out of consideration for users encountering the articles as they exist now. If discussion brings about a consensus to change this, it can be changed then" 546: 1783:. Now, if Germany did provide Philipines with actual material support, then that could be worth mentioning somewhere in article main text (not infobox), but such contentious claim would still need a better source than a newspaper article from 1899. Plenty of academic literature has been published about the conflict.-- 3676:, for example). To remove all references to the Moro Rebellion and other post-1902 conflicts from the infobox would also require removing all references across Knowledge (XXG) to the Philippine-American War or events related to it occurring after 1902, which would be too much of a major overhaul and is unfeasible. 1504:

article on the "Philippine-American War" cannot consider any armed belligerence beyond that date to be part of that particular 'war'. No works written by authors you cite are invoked in the article to contest the official termination date of this 'war'. That is a necessary first step that your position must clear.

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I hope you guys don't mind a comment here from an outsider editor. I haven't been following this exchange comment-by-comment and I'm not an academic, but the 1902ish date (that may need adjustment to 1904), described as "de jure" above, seems most reasonable to me to use as the basis of this article.

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that treat the "Philippine-American War" as their primary subject of investigation adhere to the view that "post-1902 campaigns" are distinctly not part of the "Philippine-American War". They do not investigate "post-1902 campaigns" in any meaningful way. It is the responsibility of the minority view

2813:

Your edits constituted a major change to this article that was not initially discussed beforehand. Please get editor consensus before making such drastic changes to the article. For example, omitting the post-1902 campaigns from the infobox is a major change to the article that is undoing a long-held

2341:

I suggest changing, "refused to recognize both events" to read, "did not recognize either event as legitimate". Also, while I agree that the precise date for the complete dismantling of fighting capabilities of First Philippine Republic Armed Forces, is now an unrecoverable data point, it is not WP's

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to support anything -- I just included it to show where the assertion that the war ended on July 1 that I quoted came from. Other sources assert the same, using the July 1 date of congressional passage of the organic act bill as the ending date of the war. I think the assertion is incorrect, but some

2094:

I agree with your proposal to set the info box date to July 4, 1902 with a footnote and explanatory section. The issue with the sources you cite for alternative end dates is that they are both blog posts. The first reference lists two sources, one is an encyclopedia entry concerning Aguinaldo and the

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would probably survive RS nitpicking, but it is unclear). The Organic act itself does not clearly say that the war is ended. In fact, Section 3 seems to say that hostilities may be ongoing ("That the President of the United States, during such time as and whenever the sovereignty and authority of the

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insurrection officially over on July 4, 1902. One hundred years later, President Macapagal-Arroyo presented herself as speaking on behalf of all Filipinos alive in 1902, proclaiming the 'war' officially ended on April 16, 1902. Non-Moro Filipino fighters continued fighting beyond April 16 and July 4.

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The complete absence of any literature of any kind, explicitly affirming war in the Philippines past July 4, 1902, from a United States Military Institute or War College, demonstrates that the United States of America was not engaged in a war against the Philippines beyond July 4, 1902. The complete

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Any campaign assigned to this war listed in the info box, extending past the end date listed in the info box, requires modifying the end date of this war to reflect the end of the last campaign listed in the info box. For example, if we want to include Sakay's rebellion as the last 'campaign' in the

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it was expressed in a crisp 383 words. Why do contested details of the political intrigues of a single individual warrant much more attention relative to all other elements of this 'war'? Was the "Philippine-American War" primarily about Aguinaldo? I propose trimming this subsection to no more than

3899:

While I don't support removing any references to the Moro Rebellion from the article, if a broader consensus emerges that the conflict is definitively not a part of the war discussed by this article, perhaps a disclaimer could be added to the top of the article that states something along the lines

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developed in the South with US and a different group of revolutionaries having little or no connection to Aguinaldo's group as belligerents. WP covers these two conflicts in two separate articles. The opening paras of both of those articles should make this clear and a section or a footnote in both

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I object to the dates of the Moro Rebellion being removed from the infobox primarily due to the fact that it has remained there since 2008 and was largely uncontested until now, and some writers, such as Daniel Immerwahr and Samuel K. Tan consider the Moro Rebellion as part of the war. It is stated

3345:

I feel like the "de jure" end date should be at 1902 considering that is when most historians agree the war between the U.S. and the Philippine Republic ended, I have yet to find any sources that state the war ended in 1904. Furthermore the article states that hostilities on Luzon did not end until

3187:

They don't need to explicitly state that "post-1902 campaigns" are not part of the "Philippine-American War". The corpus of literature with titles containing the string "Philippine-American War" overwhelmingly define this episode as having occurred between 1899-1902, and do not contain within them,

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asserts in the info box that this war ended April 16, 1902. Why is it appropriate to label campaigns as part of the "Philippine-American War" if they extend beyond the war's end date of April 16, 1902? Shouldn't such campaigns be labeled as being parts of different 'wars', and instead appear in the

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section you list five sources that supposedly assign "post-1902 campaigns" to the historical episode labeled "Philippine-American War". The string "Philippine-American War" does not appear in any titles of the works you cite. This calls into question the primary subject of investigation those works

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I was not asserting that the war ended completely on April 16, 1902, I was indicating that the main part of the war, the war between the United States and First Philippine Republic, ended then. The primary consensus among modern historians is that the war did not end with the fall of the Philippine

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This source does not appear to have been written by a historian and is definitely not from a book or journal so I wouldn't say it has strong grounding. Furthermore I feel like my last post in this subject was worded a bit poorly; this page covers the wider conflict in the Philippines which includes

2054:

puts that clearly: "The war officially ended with the passage of the Philippine Organic Act on July 1, 1902, and President Roosevelt offered a pardon to anyone who engaged in the conflict on July 4." However, a bill passed by the U.S. Congress may or may not become law, depending on whether or not

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Please provide block quote(s) and page number(s) expressing Tan's most compelling reason(s) why his labeling of the "Filipino-American War" should be juxtaposed with a canonical view in an encyclopedic article. Perhaps the view warrants its own ancillary article, but it does not warrant prominent

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ceased to exist. The sources suggest that even prior to April 16, 1902, all Malvar's men had already abandoned him. This implies that actual fighting between the "First Philippine Republic" and the United States ended even before April 16. There exists an inherent problem claiming that the "First

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other source is a serious work on the war itself. Linn's book does not say anything about the war officially ending with the passage of the Philippine Organic Act. The second source you cite asserts that "The U.S. government officially declared the war over on July 2" with no supporting evidence.

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needs to be considered here. I propose that the July 4 date be used in the infobox and lead section, with a footnote explaining that both the starting and ending dates there are approximate and chosen for illustrative purposes, that some sources assert other specific starting and ending dates and

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who surrendered on that dfate ("At sa loob ng mahigit na isang taon, ang Batanguenong heneral ay magiting na nakipaglaban sa Mt. Makiling at mga bundok ng Batangas. Sa bandang huli, sa headquarters ni General Franklin J. Bell sa lipa noong April 16, 1902, nagtapos ang Filipino-American War."). It

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The official position of the U.S. and Philippine governments is that the war between the U.S. and First Republic ended in 1902. Sakay's movement was not the same as Aguinaldo's Philippine Republic and is thus his rebellion is not considered a part of the "main" phase of the war, but rather one of

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guidance, this discussion is being started to address the use of Joseph Hall-Patton's YouTube video to support the aforementioned assertion. While Mr. Hall-Patton has earned the title of historian, he is not a subject-matter expert on the Philippine-American War. His self-published YouTube video

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Again, please provide block quotes and page numbers illustrating the most compelling reason why the historical episode labeled "Philippine-American War" extended beyond the "de jure" end date of July 4, 1902. Let's have a substantive discussion on whether or not this minority view is being given

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So, do these sources even mention the post-1902 campaigns and state that they are explicitly not a part of the Philippine-American War? Do you have of any forces explaining that the conflicts after 1902 - the Moro Rebellion, Sakay's rebellion, the Visayan conflicts - are not part of the war that

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insurrection, so he did. There did not exist widely accepted non-Moro Filipino leaders who disagreed with that declaration. Therefore, July 4, 1902 must be accepted as the official termination date of the "Philippine-American War". Full consideration of armed conflicts between Filipinos and U.S.

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A note in the lead section says that in 1999 the U.S. Library of Congress reclassified its references to use the expression "Philippine-American War" in place of "Philippine Insurrection". Absent a similar reclassification of Roosevelt's July 4, 1902 declaration, a neutrally written encyclopedic

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There does not exist a verified citation in this entire article showing that any historians whatsoever have argued or currently argue that "these unofficial extensions" should be considered parts of the historical episode labeled "Philippine-American War". If verified citations do exist, please

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A more delicate change would also be problematic. Swapping "was an armed conflict" in place of "was fought" would also lead to a false claim because the First Philippine Republic had been completely dismantled and disarmed before July 4, 1902. Substituting "was a conflict" would not work either

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The end date of the war recognized by the Philippines (April 16) should be given precedent as the name of the article (Philippine-American War) is the Filipino name for the conflict, whereas "Philippine Insurrection" is the initial name given by the U.S., if the name of the article reflects the

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This article describes the "Philippine-American War", a historical episode with particular start and end dates. Any information related to events outside those dates do not belong in the info box. Info box treatment of events describing a "wider conflict" belong in another article under another

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I believe that it is clear that high levels of the US govt were focused on the conflict described in this article in early July 1902, though they were aware that the other conflict existed and would not conclude with the conclusion of this conflict. TR's proclamation makes that clear by saying

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is untenable. Macapagal-Arroyo declared the war and thus the "First Philippine Republic" ended with Malvar's surrender on April 16. I believe Aguinaldo would have disagreed with her and claimed that the war and thus the "First Philippine Republic" ended with his capture on March 23, 1901. Even

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The post-1902 campaigns, such as the Moro Rebellion, Sakay's rebellion, the various Pulahan skirmishes, etc. are usually considered by historians to be part of the Philippine-American War and not their own separate wars, thus it is recommended to follow the academic consensus. Furthermore the

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Although Americans have historically used the term 'the Philippine Insurrection', Filipinos and an increasing number of American historians refer to these hostilities as the Philippine-American War (1899–1902), and in 1999 the U.S. Library of Congress reclassified its references to use this

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Can you please provide the blockquote(s) with page number(s) that illustrate the most compelling argument, in your view, why the world should accept a "de facto" end date for the historical episode labeled "Philippine-American War" that is later than the "de jure" end date of July 4, 1902?

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Even though the number of writers who argue the Moro Rebellion and other post-1902 conflicts in the Philippines is "vanishingly small", as you state, that doesn't make their arguments any less valid and not worth mentioning in the infobox. I am still of the opinion that the dates for the

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The Moro Rebellion (1901-1913) occurred after the conclusion of the Philippine-American War and involved sporadic confrontations between the Muslim Filipinos living in the southern part of the Philippines and the American soldiers there to oversee the transition from Spanish rule to U.S.

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The veracity of this assertion is highly dubious and has yet to be established upon challenge. A single citation referencing a single historian who spends less than 5% of his book discussing the "Philippine War" does not warrant juxtaposing his lone view with the canonical view that the

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sets this as the condition under which self-published expert sources may be considered reliable. Unless it can be demonstrated that Mr. Hall-Patton's work on the Philippine-American War has been published by reliable, independent publications, the citation in question warrants removal.

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stating that this name is the "Filipino name" that reflects the "Filipino view" as opposed to a name and view shared by individuals regardless of nationality? Our goal should not be to favor one view at the expense of another but to arrive at a neutral point of view through discussion.

3209:

Let's get into the details of the sources you claim demonstrably show that the "Philippine-American War" extended beyond July 4, 1902. How many U.S. citizens of the American Armed Forces were killed or injured in combat against Philippine Armed Forces personnel after July 4, 1902?

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campaign box of the Philippine-American war lists battles that took place after 1902, so it is clear that the consensus as far as Knowledge (XXG) is concerned, is that the war in the Philippines did not completely end until 1913, despite the Philippine Republic ending in 1902.

4110:

There's a lot of different links that should be more advertised such as the Balangiga Massacre and additional information because it isn't very clear. I think that a group with all the evenement linked to that conflict should be more presented or at least shown more clearly.

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states, on page 122, argues that the "Philippines independence movement" lasted "formally" until 1902, but then states that, "fighting continued sporadically until 1913". There is also a map in this chapter that denotes the Philippine-American War as lasting until that

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Furthermore, the article itself states that writers who have studied the post-1902 conflicts consider them to be a part of the war. There have also been no significant scholarly arguments made that said conflicts are distinctly not part of the Philippine-American War.

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Philippine Republic" "fought" the United States up to some exact date. We can avoid this problem by simply not making the "was fought" claim at all and instead opening the article with something like what I suggested above. Does anyone have any thoughts or objections?

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the president signs it. The details of that are a bit more complicated but, in this case, President Roosevelt did sign that bill into law. According to various sources I've seen online, that happened on July 2. but I haven't yet found a citeable source for that (

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referring readers to the article section about the ending date for details about that -- and that section should be edited to clearly explain snd cite sources supporting the April 16 date, the July 1, 2, and 4 dates, and any other significant candidate dates.

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started in 1899 and are, in fact, their own separate wars? The writers who do bring up the post-1902 conflicts primarily argue that they were part of the war. It's an obviously murky argument considering it's not discussed that much in historical discourse.

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section, which might ought to be improved by a better wordsmith than I. Re the location of that mention and wikilink, please note that the Balangiga massacre took place five or six months after Aguinaldo's capture & surrender and the dissolution of the

1731:

There have lately been a number of edits to the article adding and removing content related to this subtopic and arguing in edit summaries about what sources provide acceptable support and what do not. That should be sorted out in discussion here -- not by

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asserts that "...was fought between the First Philippine Republic and the United States from February 4, 1899, until July 1, 1902." July 1, 1902 extends beyond the end date of the war asserted in the info box of April 16, 1902. How do you reconcile this?

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Philippine-American War (between the U.S. and Philippine Republic) and the Moro Rebellion should both be presented in the infobox, only because some writers have stated the latter conflict to be a part of the former, even if it's a "minority" view.

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manner. I don't think that it is a violation of NPOV to present the mostly Luzon conflict here and the mostly Mindanao conflict separately while acknowledging in both presentations that some scholars feel that the two should be presented together.

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supports this. This is of major importance since there are different viewpoints on this. This article covers the conflict with the US and Aguinaldo's revolutionaries in the North being belligerents. Roughly at the conclusion of that conflict, the

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article presents information about a conflict mostly on Mindanao between the US and another group, and noting that some sources, including some academics, consider the two conflicts to be distinct parts of a single conflict. However, I found that

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embedded scan of page 1 of S.2295, the Senate version of the Organic Act bill. It's apparently an early version with a handwritten date markup that caught my eye. Even ignoring RS concerns about the web publisher, I agree that it is not any use

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This article is substantially duplicated by a piece in an external publication. Since the external publication copied Knowledge (XXG) rather than the reverse, please do not flag this article as a copyright violation of the following source:

3619:. The author dedicates 21 pages of prose out of 435 to the "Philippine War". that's less than 5% of the book. Clearly, the "Philippine War" is not the author's primary topic of investigation. He remarks in the notes at the end of the book, 2719:

How many ethnic Tagalogs would that be? A significant percent of the total number of ethnic Tagalogs? If not, does this have sufficient weight to be pointed up in relation to the article topic? Also, you'll need to cite supporting sources.

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Continuing... My thinking now is that July 4 is the correct US-perspective ending date to use. I nave noted above that the Organic Act (passed on July 1, probably signed into law on July 2) does not say that the war is at an end. Article 3

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with differing viewpoints on this exist? Yes, they do. Does this difference in viewpoints have sufficient topical weight for elaboration in this article? Probably. Is the issue currently elaborated sufficiently? I think so -- you clearly

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Additionally, the post-1902 campaigns should not be omitted from the infobox since most contemporary writers bringing up said campaigns (Moro Rebellion, Sakay's rebellion, Pulahan conflicts, etc.) consider them to be a part of the war.

4006:

This section is 2,833 words long while the "War" section is only 2,298 words long. This is completely out of proportion. I propose trimming this section and expanding the "War" section. Does anyone have any thoughts or objections?

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has been challenged and must survive scrutiny. An indefensible proposition cannot remain in the article. If evidence is not produced to support the claim, it should be removed. Consequences of that removal would naturally follow.

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Perhaps a paragraph should be added to the article explicitly calling attention to the fact that this article covers the period of officially declared war between the United States following the cession by Spain and the nascent

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Thanks for the input. I agree the Moro Rebellion should be mentioned briefly in the article. The point of contention is whether or not the Moro Rebellion should appear in the info box. I have yet to locate a war article rated

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I was going to edit the article his morning to (1) standardize it on July 4 as the ending date and (2) explain that this article presents information about the conflict between the US and a rebellion mostly on Luzon and the

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page which states that the rebellion was part of the wider war. Unless you find a source that explicitly states that the post-1902 conflicts were not a part of the war, said conflicts should remain as listed in the infobox.

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which quotes a presidential proclamation and a general order in connection with this and provides information and analysis related to all this. I see that there is also article content related to this that needs review in

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After such time, if those citations are not produced, I propose moving this claim to the talk page pending further support and modifying the info box to reflect this removal. Does anyone have any thoughts or objections?

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Chino-Catane "The majority of WP:RS that treat the "Philippine-American War" as their primary subject of investigation adhere to the view that "post-1902 campaigns" are distinctly not part of the "Philippine-American

2049:

I noticed that someone had changed the ending dates of the war in the article to April 16. I've changed them back to July 1, but that date is arguably wrong. I am aware that sources supporting the July 1 date exist.

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is a separate conflict which overlaps that 1904 date but has little or nothing to do with the conflict in the North, and that is made clear in the U.S. proclamation. The 1899-1902 or 4 conflict developed mostly on

1251:

The Philippine-American War is considered to be a wider conflict that encompasses Aguinaldo's rebellion, the post-war insurgency, and Moro Rebellion, according to a number of modern consenses by historians, namely

1448:) I garbled final sentence above with a spurious set of square brackets and a pipe char in what was intended to be a link to a URL and did not notice the garble until now. It was meant to read: I seem to be just 3819:(comment from the sidelines) I'm presently traveling and major involvement in a WP discussion is difficult for me. However, as this seems to be developing in that direction, I'm going to comment at this point. 3265:

You have yet to demonstrate with blockquotes and page numbers, that even a single historian believes what you claim is the "primary consensus" for the end of the historical episode labeled "Philippine-American

2406:

Your modification of dates from "July x" to "July 4" improves the article. This is the date I support as marking the "official" end of the "Philippine-American War". However, the article's opening sentence,

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The precise date for the complete dismantling of fighting capabilities of First Philippine Republic Armed Forces, I contend, is now an unrecoverable data point. I propose replacing these first two sentences

2195:

I'm pausing to allow discussion here but, absent RS-supported info to the contrary, I plan to change assertions that the war ended on July 1 or 2 to say July 4 instead, citing TR's proclamation. Discussion?

1945:"Philippine-American War", we must modify the end date of the "Philippine-American War" to match or extend beyond the end date of Sakay's rebellion. Alternatively, can you direct me to a war article rated 1324:

However, it is not the mission of Knowledge (XXG) to develop a POV position on issues and selectively cite sources in support of that POV position. One of the foundational policies in WP is the policy on

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supposing that leadership of the "First Philippine Republic" "officially" passed to Malvar upon Aguinaldo's capture, we cannot say with precise certainty the exact day upon which the remnants of the

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that includes 'campaigns' within its info box extending beyond the war end-date specified in said info box. Moro Rebellion inclusion within the info box represents a subjective category (see

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and the United States from February 4, 1899, until July 2, 1902." Taking those quotes roughly at face value, the article shouldn't focus on events following 1902. I seem to be just here.

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In 1904, the U.S. president proclaimed officially that the general hostilities had ended after the opposition had essentially (with a few exceptions) abandoned the field of battle. The

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of, "This article is about the war between the United States and the First Philippine Republic fought from 1899 to 1902, for the longer conflict between the U.S. and Moro People, see

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begins: "The first sentence should tell the nonspecialist reader what or who the subject is, and often when or where.". The lead sentenxce of this article currently reads: "The

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If any particular bit of detail warrants inclusion in a Knowledge (XXG) article at all, it can be moved to a "Main article" or other related article, and then advertised.

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display in this one. It may warrant brief mention in the Aftermath section if you can furnish page numbers. You still have not addressed the observation made above about

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In this situation, it must be shown that Mr. Hall-Patton has produced work on the "Philippine-American War" that has been published by reliable, independent publications.

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sources -- even generally reliable sources published by generally reliable publishers -- make that same claim and it should be considered for mention in the article per

968: 4259: 517: 4334: 3718:"Philippine-American War" ended in 1902 and that the "Moro Rebellion" was a partly coincident but separate conflict, as far as subject-matter experts are concerned. 3615:

Thus far, a single verified citation confirms that one historian maintains the view that the "Philippine War" lasted until 1913. This is expressed in a book titled

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because the First Philippine Republic declared itself in January 1899. A "conflict" existed at the moment it was officially promulgated, before February 4, 1899.

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Also I am curious to hear about what an "expert" on this particular subject might entail. Perhaps a writer on U.S. military history or American foreign policy?

759: 714: 79: 4299: 2582: 1651: 1206: 4229: 3193:"Do you have of any forces explaining that the conflicts after 1902 are not part of the war that started in 1899 and are, in fact, their own separate wars?" 1803:

The lead section claims, "...the 'war' was officially declared ended by the US on July 1, 1902." This proposition is problematic. Where in the text of the "

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On June 2, after U.S. denial of an armistice request, the Philippine Council of Government issued a proclamation urging its people to continue fighting.

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This avoids the twin problems of assigning a precise end-date to the cessation of "fighting" and choosing between two officially recognized end-dates.

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I haven't dug into this much myself and I'm limited to online sources, but I may see what I can find as time allows. A quick google today did turn up

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Any bits describing events beyond July 4, 1902 - the official termination date of the "Philippine-American War" - must be removed from the info box.

1293: 483: 445: 3578:: epub includes a statement at end of Philippine-American War chapter, "Shouting the Battle Cry of Freedom", that the war overall lasted until 1913. 3457:, fails verification. Discussion of an extended "Philippine-American War" beyond July 4, 1902 appears nowhere within the bounds of the cited pages. 85: 4319: 4239: 2410:"The Philippine–American War ... was fought between the First Philippine Republic and the United States from February 4, 1899, until July 4, 1902" 3406:

with a single citation to a single author, does not provide sufficient justification to warrant inclusion of the Moro Rebellion in the info box.

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Do you speculate that you have been feeding a single individual? It would be unfortunate if this article is being prevented from evolving into a

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had been made in the article body. I have reverted those changes and invited the editor who made them to join this discussion and work towards

3872:"The Philippine-American War ... was an armed conflict between the First Philippine Republic and the United States lasting from 1899 to 1902." 2137:

You apparently have RS concerns about some other sources, but I'm not sure which sources cited in support of what assertions in what context.

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This is a hyperbolic claim, and I doubt it is true. Even supposing it is true, all instances of false claims must eventually be corrected.

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stating that viewpoints held by an extremely small minority do not belong in Knowledge (XXG) (except perhaps in some ancillary article).

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The claim "some Philippine groups - led by veterans..." requires production of at least 3 such veterans. Currently, there is only one.

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As a side note, the Vine and Immerwahr citations in the above mentioned revision require page number specifications for verification.

2113: 2051: 1205:. It does overlap the war period very slightly date-wise but, aside from that, that conflict was between the rebels and the post-war 266: 260: 99: 3785:

Please address my criticisms as I have always addressed each and every one of your claims. You continue to make the assertion that

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religious movements continued hostilities in remote areas. The resistance in the Moro-dominated provinces in the south, called the

104: 20: 2021:"...The primary consensus among modern historians is that the war did not end with the fall of the Philippine Republic in 1902..." 2318:. The United States refused to recognize both events, and tensions escalated until fighting commenced on February 4, 1899 in the 906:

on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the ongoing discussions.

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at the time. There may be suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be

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I raise the question as there is not a main article for many of the relevant subsections, unlike the section you raise above.

3544:"subject-matter expert, whose work in the relevant field has previously been published by reliable, independent publications." 1060: 420: 3493:, the claim itself warrants removal from the article, which in turn warrants removal of the Moro Rebellion from the info box. 2628: 1689: 351: 347: 3639:"Self-published expert sources may be considered reliable when produced by an established subject-matter expert, whose work 1751:

seems to have some topically relevant information that might be citeable in support of article assertions on this subtopic.

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Knowledge (XXG) edits predate this website post. Also, the About page states it's CC by SA 3.0 and mentions Knowledge (XXG).

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is supposed to come into play there. It is not WP's aim to decide which view is right -- just to present both views in a

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I do not know how to cite specific page numbers of sources. If you know how to here are the links to the books I cited:

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provide block quotes and page numbers to correct the misunderstanding so that the sentence may remain in the article.

1743:, described there as "Angel Velasco Shaw, Luis H. Francia NYU Press, 2002 - History - 468 pages". The section titled 1380:

the post-war insurgencies in detail, so the infobox should reflect that as it has done so since 2009 as you stated.

3673: 3088:"no significant scholarly arguments made that said conflicts are distinctly not part of the Philippine-American War 3080:"article itself states that writers who have studied the post-1902 conflicts consider them to be a part of the war" 1997:

Republic in 1902 as the United States continued fighting other anti-American groups in the Philippines until 1913.

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500 words. Detailed presentations of Aguinaldo's political exploits can be placed in the advertised Main article:

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seems to me that the July 4 date is the best of these, but it is a fact that sources exist supporting all three.

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but I think that any relevance mentioned should be clarified and supported. What was the connection, if any, of

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weight. It should not take more than a week to support this claim with verified sources if it is in fact true.

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subsection has grown to occupy the third largest subsection in the entire article at 756 words. In a previous

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I have no objections to a carefully considered advertisement of the Moro Rebellion at the top of this article.

2798:, none of the changes you made reverted instances of vandalism. We can discuss each point of contention here. 1299: 735: 708: 426: 3648:

I propose 1 week is ample time to produce citations that justify inclusion within this article of the claim,

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The United States of War: A Global History of America's Endless Conflicts, from Columbus to the Islamic State

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The assertion is unsupported, and its weakness is clearly flagged in the article. Thus far, the descriptor

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war article that lists 'campaigns' in its info box that fall outside the end date stated in the info box.

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apparently does not now have the content expected in the context of a wikilink from here, so I have made

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I await the evidence. If you can establish the veracity of this claim, then we can move on to discussing

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Again, how does your claim regarding a "later part of the war" reconcile with your assertion in revision

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Filipino view then the end date for the "main" phase of the war should reflect the Filipino view as well.

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on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join

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Thanks for raising the concerns. Trimmings warranting inclusion in a Knowledge (XXG) article can go in

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down in the infobox list of U.S. commanders to better reflect his role during the period of this war.

1217: 328: 4166: 3848: 3330: 3204:"The writers who do bring up the post-1902 conflicts primarily argue that they were part of the war." 2724: 2701: 2438: 2350: 2249: 2200: 2141: 2078: 1851: 1788: 1755: 1456: 1422: 1364: 1235: 1228: 890: 3755:

does apply. If you can provide page numbers in Tan's work that survive verification, the descriptor

3391:"...some writers argue that the Moro Rebellion (and other post-1902 conflicts) are part of the war." 2065: 1916:"...should be given precedent as the name of the article...is the Filipino name for the conflict..." 397: 4112: 2577: 1646: 1221: 1179: 997: 161: 1780: 4142: 4134: 4127: 4074: 4051: 4023: 3814: 2547: 2177:

effectively allows TR to continue to use presidential war powers as long as hostilities continue.

1616: 751: 234: 3794: 874: 843: 3260:"I believe that the dates of the Moro Rebellion...be left in the infobox to ease confusions..." 4176: 4120: 4100: 4092: 4059: 4045: 4037: 4031: 4016: 4008: 3996: 3988: 3964: 3956: 3940:"...if a broader consensus emerges that the conflict is definitively not a part of the war..." 3913: 3892: 3884: 3858: 3806: 3798: 3761:

would apply. Given the proposed evidence offered thus far, the assertion is objectively false.

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Please help fix the broken anchors. You can remove this template after fixing the problems. |

51: 3767:"...require removing all references across Knowledge (XXG) to the Philippine-American War..." 3730: 3625: 3322: 1360:

among interested editors. I'm calling here for other interested editors to weigh in on this.

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here. I'll go forward with part (1) of that while waiting for that editor to join us here.

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article section saying that TR officially proclaimed that the war was at an end on July 4.

2138: 2075: 1848: 1784: 1752: 1453: 1419: 1361: 1232: 3504: 3380: 3376: 3093: 3018:(2020) by David Vine both state the Philippine-American War as lasting from 1899 to 1913. 2567:(Archived content; Information released online from January 20, 2009 to January 20, 2017) 2032: 1946: 1923: 1733: 1636:(Archived content; Information released online from January 20, 2009 to January 20, 2017) 1535: 1338: 3317:. Some historians lump the two conflicts, or parts of them, together and some do not -- 1449: 664: 3901: 3834: 3305: 2697: 2233: 1265: 1198: 3581: 3523:

Mr. Joseph Hall-Patton moves Philippine-American War end-date to 1913 in YouTube video

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The change of the end date to July 1 was also not mine and was done by another editor.

1949:

that includes campaigns in the info box extending past the end of the associated war?

4213: 3142:"Some historians consider these unofficial extensions to be part of the war." Citing 2993:

Forgotten Under a Tropical Sun: War stories by American Veterans in the Philippines,

2675: 1261: 903: 1740: 3621:"There are many histories of the Philippine War, especially between 1899 and 1902." 3612:

This is not equivalent to stating, "The Philippine-American War lasted until 1913".

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is an improvement, as it provides multiple citations to qualify the assertion that

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The role of geography in counterinsurgency warfare: The Philippine American War,

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in December 1898 when the United States annexed the Philippine Islands under the

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United States Military Government of the Philippine Islands § Official end to war

3271:"...some writers have argued that the war actually extended beyond that year..." 2969:

What "academic consensus" regarding "post-1902" campaigns are you referring to?

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This is an interesting position. I contend with the qualifying proposition that

1881:

Armed Forces beyond July 4, 1902 belong in another article under another label.

1329:; please read at least the first paragraph of the section of that policy headed 764: 3498:"...some writers have stated the latter conflict to be a part of the former..." 3713:

A review of the archives reveals that no one cared enough to check the claim,

3709:"...it has remained there since 2008 and was largely uncontested until now..." 3182:"...state that they are explicitly not a part of the Philippine-American War?" 2865:

When I scholar.google the string "Philippine American War" my search returns:

1049: 880: 741: 3787:"Some historians consider these unofficial extensions to be part of the war." 3715:"Some historians consider these unofficial extensions to be part of the war." 3650:"Some historians consider these unofficial extensions to be part of the war." 2983:

Here are some sources on the contrary arguing that the war lasted until 1913

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staging content from lead section to be placed probably in Aftermath section:

3951:"Some historians consider these unofficial extensions to be part of the war" 3829: 3534:"Some historians consider these unofficial extensions to be part of the war" 3454:"Some historians consider these unofficial extensions to be part of the war" 3403:"Some historians consider these unofficial extensions to be part of the war" 2868:

Response to Imperialism: The United States and the Philippine-American War,

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edit to avoid that wikilink. The edit moves mention and wikilinking of the

3048:"The United States of War: A Global History of America's Endless Conflicts" 1117:) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other 902:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of topics relating to the 3083:

The article states nothing of the sort. Please point me to that statement.

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is objectively false. My proposal is to simply not make the claim at all.

1964:

many resistance groups that fought the U.S. in the later part of the war.

763:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of topics related to the 2573:"Researching Service in the U.S. Army During the Philippine Insurrection" 1642:"Researching Service in the U.S. Army During the Philippine Insurrection" 1189:

Moro Rebellion, Republic of Zamboanga not part of Philippine American War

3824:

The lead sentence of an article should make it clear what the topic of

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and the current content in that section and the article body here, the

1170:] The anchor (#Trial and death) is no longer available because it was 1166:

This article links to one or more target anchors that no longer exist.

3004:

and the word "Boondocks" | War and Etymology; Joseph Hall-Patton, 2016

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article. I'll not edit these for now to avoid bumping heads with you.

3643:

has previously been published by reliable, independent publications."

3575: 3054:"both state the Philippine-American War as lasting from 1899 to 1913" 3777:"...which would be too much of a major overhaul and is unfeasible.." 4192:

templates on this page, but the references will not show without a

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opening sentence structure is preferred, I propose the following:

3310: 1942:"...post-1902 campaigns should not be omitted from the infobox..." 3739:"...It is stated in the body of the article that some writers..." 2814:

consensus that definitely needs to be discussed before removing.

3724:"...some writers, such as Daniel Immerwahr and Samuel K. Tan..." 3042:"How to Hide an Empire: A History of the Greater United States" 2109:

Thanks. Re the two sources I linked just above, taken in order

1745:

A CLASH OF INTERESTS: German and American Territorial Ambitions

988:

WikiProject Military history - U.S. military history task force

3313:

between the U.S. and Philippine revolutionaries following the

1479:..."this page covers the wider conflict in the Philippines..." 1140: 1087: 1044: 1028: 391: 235: 15: 3781:

The operation you describe as "unfeasible" is a trivial task.

3617:

How to Hide an Empire, A History of the Greater United States

3576:

How to Hide an Empire, A Greater History of the United States

3008:

How to Hide an Empire: A History of the Greater United States

2955:; GA Cosmas - A companion to American Military History, 2010 2928:; TD Russell - The Journal of African American History, 2014 2913:

Perspectives on peace during the Philippine—American war of

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However, Roosevelt wanted to declare an official end to the

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The section "Post-1902 conflicts" states of said conflicts:

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A War of Frontier and Empire: The Philippine-American War,

2886:

A war of frontier and empire: The Philippine-American war,

2064:

when establishing a holiday in his homme province honoring

334:

Facts from this article were featured on Knowledge (XXG)'s

4162:

was arguably running a rogue guerilla operation in Samar.

3489:

Unless the above mentioned claim is properly verified and

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until surrendering on July 14, 1906. Groups including the

2374:: Even supposing your assertion is true, the proposition, 3503:

Again, please provide block quotes and page numbers from

2274:

The first two sentences of this article currently read,

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Why the United States Won the Philippine-American War,

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job to determine that and it flouts some WP policies,

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Southeast Asian military history task force articles

2863:"...recommended to follow the academic consensus..." 1920:"the name of the article reflects the Filipino view" 1826:. Your changes were an improvement. The text of the 1727:

Assertions of German support for the Philippine side

529:

This article has been checked against the following

279:

of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.

4275:

North American military history task force articles

3542:concerning the subject does not establish him as a 3462:"...doesn't make their arguments any less valid..." 614: 528: 174: 4355:Knowledge (XXG) articles that use American English 4295:United States military history task force articles 2883:; GA May - Pacific Historical Review, 1983 - JSTOR 2380:between the FPR and the US ... until July 4, 1902" 1822:I see that you have revised this problematic text 1501:"...a number of modern consenses by historians..." 4280:C-Class Southeast Asian military history articles 4245:Knowledge (XXG) level-4 vital articles in History 4330:C-Class United States articles of Top-importance 4270:C-Class North American military history articles 2700:by the Americans, ended with Moro defeat at the 2314:in January 1899, seven months after signing the 777:Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject Tambayan Philippines 33:for general discussion of the article's subject. 4290:C-Class United States military history articles 3987:. Does anyone have any thoughts or objections? 3603: 3058:please provide block quotes with page numbers. 2366:"did not recognize either event as legitimate" 2156:You have addressed the concerns. Thank you. 4340:Top-importance United States History articles 2919:; MSI Diokno - South East Asia Research, 1997 8: 2757:sfn error: no target: CITEREFAgoncillo1990 ( 2583:National Archives and Records Administration 1713:sfn error: no target: CITEREFWorcester1914 ( 1652:National Archives and Records Administration 1207:Insular Government of the Philippine Islands 1062:The Brutality of the Philippine-American War 501:Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject Military history 1982:that the war terminated on April 16, 1902? 673:Southeast Asian military history task force 4345:WikiProject United States History articles 4310:Top-importance Philippine History articles 4305:Top-importance Philippine-related articles 4265:Asian military history task force articles 3602:Thanks for the page numbers. Vine writes, 3125:The section "Post-1902 conflicts" states: 2949:The Spanish-American and Philippine wars, 2610:sfn error: no target: CITEREFBattjes2011 ( 2310:. Philippine nationalists constituted the 2302:, emerged following the conclusion of the 1671:sfn error: no target: CITEREFBattjes2011 ( 1105:, which has its own spelling conventions ( 1069: 838: 703: 657:North American military history task force 611: 525: 434: 284: 243: 4235:Knowledge (XXG) vital articles in History 2937:; WN Holden - GeoJournal, 2020 - Springer 2752: 2633:sfn error: no target: CITEREFSilbey2008 ( 1708: 1694:sfn error: no target: CITEREFSilbey2008 ( 1394:I don't follow all of that. However, the 943:Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject United States 780:Template:WikiProject Tambayan Philippines 689:United States military history task force 2910:: Compassion or Conquest?; E Holm - 2014 2689:peoples of the southern Philippines and 2652:sfn error: no target: CITEREFKalaw1927 ( 2503:DETAILS TO BE REINSERTED IN ARTICLE BODY 1065:, Open End Social Studies, July 21, 2018 481:This article is within the scope of the 4260:C-Class Asian military history articles 2745: 2597: 2528:was invoked but never defined (see the 2514: 2186:, I have added explicit content to the 1666: 1572:was invoked but never defined (see the 1558: 1271:2600:4040:9E16:3200:44FB:538D:3F6D:2AA8 840: 705: 436: 395: 4335:C-Class United States History articles 4230:Knowledge (XXG) level-4 vital articles 2624: 2326:Are there any thoughts or objections? 2316:Philippine Declaration of Independence 1685: 1382:2600:4040:9E16:3200:9D8A:79BD:FFA3:189 491:. To use this banner, please see the 4325:Top-importance United States articles 2647: 1125:, this should not be changed without 504:Template:WikiProject Military history 7: 3628:paraphrases Jimmy Wales as stating, 2031:Alternatively, please point me to a 896:This article is within the scope of 757:This article is within the scope of 4300:C-Class Philippine-related articles 4180: 3749:does not apply, but the descriptor 2520: 1564: 23:for discussing improvements to the 4350:WikiProject United States articles 4022:Where should the detail be moved? 3400:. A single sentence claiming that 2833:info boxes of different articles? 2372:"...it flouts some WP policies..." 1773:Template:Infobox military conflict 946:Template:WikiProject United States 14: 4255:C-Class military history articles 4250:C-Class vital articles in History 3705:Thanks for sharing your concerns. 3144:The Philippines: A Past Revisited 2778:A sequence of edits were made at 2771:Points of contention in revision 1867:President Roosevelt declared the 1298:The Theodore Roosevelt Center at 822:the Philippine history task force 641:Asian military history task force 50:New to Knowledge (XXG)? Welcome! 4315:WikiProject Philippines articles 3232:in 1902, but arguably continued 2674:Ethnic Tagalogs in Luzon led by 2346:in particular, to try doing so. 1144: 1091: 1048: 1032: 883: 873: 842: 760:WikiProject Tambayan Philippines 744: 734: 707: 588: 577: 566: 555: 544: 474: 438: 405: 396: 327: 247: 217: 45:Click here to start a new topic. 4002:Origins of the conflict section 963:This article has been rated as 797:This article has been rated as 4320:C-Class United States articles 4240:C-Class level-4 vital articles 4186:<ref group=lower-alpha: --> 4177:01:05, 15 September 2024 (UTC) 3637:addresses your last question. 2946:; RD Cunningham - 2002 - JSTOR 1593:Guerra filipina-estadounidense 425:It is of interest to multiple 265:nominee, but did not meet the 1: 4194:{{reflist|group=lower-alpha}} 3396:undue weight as described in 2964:; M Polner - Fellowship, 2007 2548:"Philippines Background Note" 2416:Philippine Revolutionary Army 2290:, known alternatively as the 1845:Philippine Organic Act (1902) 1828:Philippine Organic Act (1902) 1617:"Philippines Background Note" 1402:, known alternatively as the 1005:This article is supported by 985:This article is supported by 819:This article is supported by 771:and see a list of open tasks. 42:Put new text under old text. 4220:Former good article nominees 3976:Aguinaldo's exile and return 3146:(1975) by Renato Constantino 3000:The Philippine Insurrection 2904:The Philippine-American War 2794:, with regards to your edit 2434:I agree about "was fought". 484:Military history WikiProject 3904:". Would you support this? 2986:The Filipino-American War, 2678:operated from mountains in 1601:Digmaang Pilipino–Amerikano 1433:11:19, 18 August 2023 (UTC) 1390:22:27, 16 August 2023 (UTC) 1375:14:40, 16 August 2023 (UTC) 1279:20:43, 15 August 2023 (UTC) 1264:. This is reflected on the 783:Philippine-related articles 4371: 3674:Battle of the Malala River 2997:; Joseph P. McCallus, 2017 2571:Plante, Trevor K. (2000). 1793:20:23, 30 April 2024 (UTC) 1766:23:45, 28 April 2024 (UTC) 1640:Plante, Trevor K. (2000). 969:project's importance scale 549:Referencing and citation: 273:. 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According to the 1073:Additional comments 917:Articles Requested! 582:Grammar and style: 535:for B-class status: 4200:template (see the 4143:Balangiga massacre 4135:March across Samar 4128:March across Samar 3971:Background section 2792:user:141.155.35.58 2704:on June 15, 1913. 2581:. Vol. 32, no. 3. 2543:Multiple sources: 2300:Tagalog Insurgency 1650:. Vol. 32, no. 3. 1612:Multiple sources: 1412:Tagalog Insurgency 1002: 982: 816: 752:Philippines portal 685: 669: 653: 637: 522: 489:list of open tasks 421:content assessment 288:Article milestones 86:dispute resolution 47: 4175: 4072: 3926: 3857: 3818: 3698: 3507:that state this. 3339: 2901:; BMA Linn - 2000 2892:; D Silbey - 2008 2733: 2666:Aftermath section 2447: 2359: 2258: 2209: 2150: 2087: 1860: 1836:this news article 1779:Specific RfC is 1764: 1465: 1431: 1373: 1258:Clayton D. 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Here's one: 1254:Daniel Immerwahr 1238: 1218:Vincente Alvarez 1180:Reporting errors 1148: 1147: 1141: 1102:American English 1098:This article is 1095: 1088: 1070: 1066: 1052: 1045: 1036: 1035: 1029: 951: 950: 947: 944: 941: 893: 888: 887: 886: 877: 870: 869: 864: 861: 855:Military history 846: 839: 803:importance scale 785: 784: 781: 778: 775: 754: 749: 748: 747: 738: 731: 730: 725: 722: 711: 704: 622: 612: 596: 592: 591: 585: 581: 580: 574: 570: 569: 563: 559: 558: 552: 548: 547: 526: 509: 508: 505: 502: 499: 498:Military history 478: 471: 470: 465: 446:Military history 442: 435: 418: 409: 408: 401: 400: 392: 384:February 4, 2023 380:February 4, 2022 376:February 4, 2018 372:February 4, 2015 368:February 4, 2012 364:February 4, 2011 360:February 4, 2008 356:February 4, 2007 352:February 4, 2006 348:February 4, 2005 331: 308: 285: 251: 244: 236: 222: 221: 212: 179: 178: 164: 95:Article policies 16: 4370: 4369: 4365: 4364: 4363: 4361: 4360: 4359: 4210: 4209: 4197: 4193: 4189: 4185: 4183: 4181: 4160:Vincente Lukban 4149:section to the 4131: 4108: 4069: 4004: 3985:Hong Kong Junta 3973: 3949: 3923: 3878: 3870: 3775: 3765: 3737: 3722: 3707: 3695: 3543: 3532: 3525: 3496: 3484: 3472: 3460: 3452: 3401: 3390: 3269: 3258: 3226:inserted inline 3202: 3191: 3180: 3086: 3078: 3052: 3046: 3040: 2959: 2950: 2941: 2932: 2923: 2914: 2905: 2896: 2887: 2878: 2869: 2776: 2768: 2767: 2766: 2756: 2751: 2747: 2668: 2663: 2662: 2661: 2651: 2646: 2642: 2632: 2623: 2619: 2609: 2596: 2592: 2570: 2556: 2554: 2546: 2542: 2538: 2525: 2523: 2521: 2516: 2408: 2308:Treaty of Paris 2285: 2275: 2268: 1922:. 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