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and pasting and rewording, of course, per the scholarly reviews provided). The mapping is so quick because of the direct correlation in content. In the articles, I had to check all the scorecards and then fix the wrong numbers introduced by Perry (eg, in one 30 page chapter of one books, there is one wrong score/data for undisputed fact for each page); with a book it is more convenient as one only has to add "author, p. 12" whereas with internet scorecards, filling out all the url and new title for each scorecard takes a lot of time.
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article Roland Perry. That would be a shame. Previous posts from YellowMonkey user and others earlier in the year were all critical -- one-sided in my opinion. I would like to work on Roland Perry page content to improve balance via sourced factual information. See Talk Page for my suggestion to edit content. Haruspex101 (talk) 01:34, 7 July 2009 (UTC) (novice user)
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to the original (per citation in the article). After I have finished the article, I can go to the archival library (which doesn't allow taking home of books) and spend 2 hours mapping all of Perry's information from the original book (without the errors that Perry introduced in the process of cutting
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Or alternatively an experienced independent editor can make this reversion before we move through a discussion of the substantive edits that you propose. There are also many edits that I would like to propose via this process such as the balance issue in the Review section. In this way we can reach
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My 2c. Firstly, YM does not have any conflict of interest. Writing in places outside of
Knowledge does not mean that a conflict of interest has taken place. If you have proof of a conflict rather than a handwaving assertion, now would be good time to produce it. Wanting NPOV and WP:V applied does not
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OK, part of the problem here is that there are too many changes; it's hard to see what's going on. I'm going to have a crack at reviewing the changes and some editing. First point already done: the
Cricket Society "commendation" (not actually an award I think) doesn't seem to have a solid source, so
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Thanks. You wrote a lot of good stuff - but it was just too long. If you want to reintroduce other material, I suggest you do that slowly and/or propose specific things here. For improving the article, at the moment I think focus on the lead - it could be a slightly better summary, and read better.
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OK, well, I've retrieved some of the more obviously necessary (biographical) and sourced material that YellowMonkey deleted, plus a good chunk of the summary of the literary career, losing a lot of far-too-lengthy exposition of critical reception. In some cases sources could be improved. How's this
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Collated factual sourced material on Roland Perry and posted this on Knowledge in July 2009 using journalistic style to bridge the sourced material and some opinion. Material is not contested by Roland Perry, even though it includes a good deal of sourced criticism of Roland Perry along with the
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o In Jan 2009 YellowMonkey user added a series of selective sourced criticism on some of Roland Perry’s publications. There was no balance to the criticism. YellowMoney is a highly experienced
Knowledge editor and self-discloses as a cricket writer. What is YellowMonkey's motive for posting only
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Although 37 of the 59 refs are from Miller's Luck, most of these were of identical content to the original biog of Miller by RS Whitington, with the structure of the book exactly the same and the same anecdotes. Ditto for all the other Perry cites. They are a convenient means of accessing classics
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I removed most of the stuff that was from Perry's own book saying that he was the first do something, when it was clearly misleading advertising. Perry is not an independent source, so him saying that he was the only person do interview
Bradman is not acceptable. It is also false. Same for all the
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has deleted the content extensively, with these actions including: loading up the
Cricket Book section in a very unbalanced way with purely negative criticism and removing positive reviews; cutting away all of the subject's career overview except to wrongly emphasise a related political article in
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Roland Perry (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) Adminstrator advises he/she is now on holidays for weeks. I am a novice user and have made suggestions in the Talk Page. It may be that the YellowMonkey user (who has been deleting the new content) is a rival real-world author of the subject of the
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o Roland Perry entry in
Knowledge was seeded with a short bio entry (now out of date) in Nov 2005. Roland Perry is an internationally published author and journalist with 40 years experience, writing books, articles and filmscripts in a variety of genres -- namely US politics, Espionage, History
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The only thing I have done is repeated what every learned cricket scholar like Haigh, Frith and Guha have said, and if that is "repeating a libel is itself a libel" then there is no way that you, the subject of the article, will allow anything except a vainglorious personal advert, in which case
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Well, I'm sorry to say I just don't have the time or patience to sort this out. YellowMonkey, in removing some unsourced and unnecessary stuff and some unsourced and necessary stuff (the latter esp from the Career section) and introducing probably excessive criticism, made a mess of the article
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Other stuff: Uncited awards removed. Uncited claims removed; The author's own claims of achieving some alleged unique feat removed, as they were self-referenced and not reliable. The claim that he is the only guy to interview
Bradman, for instance, is flagrantly false. Other stuff that like his
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Hello YellowMonkey, thankyou for engaging on this
Discussion page. I can address your few comments above but there are so many edits that you have made to the base Rd232 ‎that we need to revert to that and then work through each editing proposal systematically. Ideally I ask that you make the
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That's a great synthesis. Appreciate you bringing to bear your objectivity and higher-level editing. +I have updated the first para; author Roland Perry is onto his 23rd book now. Would also appreciate following up with any questions on how to improve the content and if any further disputes
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and Wisden. The praise reviews of Perry come from people who are not cricket experts. One was by a chef, another a novelist, and others by random anonymous newspaper staffers who have to review all the books without specialist knowledge in any topics. A review by a low-skill journalist who
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That said, I am not opposed to much of your suggested lead, but I would remove the awards from the lead and include them later in the article. Otherwise, the lead comes across much too promotional. This is an encyclopedia, not a blurb on the back of an airport-bookshop book. --
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YellowMonkey, I also urge you to review your many comments about Roland Perry spread across
Knowledge as I believe that you have maligned the living author Roland Perry on a number of occasions. I can assist you to identify these comments that should be immediately deleted.
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The following users have a substantial history of collaboration and association, such that comments in support of each others' edits in relation to this Roland Perry page lack objectivity, and interventions on such matters as user blocking are (and were) inappropriate:
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One user requested that the Roland Perry content be edited to remove facts that were not verified. This is a helpful suggestion. I have now studied the WikiPedia policy on Biographies_of_living_persons and believe that I can edit the content to that style.
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all day long, and in this case we have world leading historians who have read all the books and know when something is a repeat or is piled full of errors, and a bunch of people off the street who have been chosen selectively because they did not see it.
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o Haruspex re-edits material offline but before can make online edits YellowMonkey deletes all content again, with the result that the content becomes protected under an editing-warring freeze by an Administrator until the dispute can be resolved
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overwhelming positive reviews of Roland Perry’s broad writing career which includes journalism and 22 published books on US politics, British espionage and history (WW1), along with a variety of biography, fiction as well as cricket history.
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other stuff from his own book claiming he had exclusive interviews with KGB agents. No independent proof. As for the award he supposedly won and claimed in his book, a check of the organisation's website shows that someone else one it
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Dispute obviously requires independent intervention for resolution. I am a novice user. YellowMonkey is a highly experienced user. Some help to bridge the technical-skill divide is required and would be greatly appreciated.
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YellowMonkey, please join with me in requesting that the Roland Perry page be unlocked by the Adminstrator so that I can make editing changes and then I would welcome your higher level editing skills to develop the material.
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and an occasional film-maker. He has written in a variety of genres including biography, history (World War 1), politics, espionage, sport (mainly cricket) and fiction. His nine biographies include
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o Attempts were made in March 2009 to remove the one-sided criticism. This was reversed by an Administrator given there was no competing material to clarify the facts in a broader context.
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Posted NPOV revised-edits on content of Roland Perry (an internationally published author with 22 books). Content is balanced with appropriately sourced reviews (including criticism).
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o Johnlp user adds a helpful tag: “This article may contain wording that promotes the subject through exaggeration of non-notable facts. Please remove or replace such wording.”
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Let's edit the content together on the Roland Perry page. That's where the facts can be revealed and contested as required. That's my understanding of how Knowledge works.
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And yes agree, case should be made for any YellowMonkey Conflict of Interest (COI) via documentation. YellowMonkey be best to please make any COI disclosures before this.
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1995:, repeating a libel is itself a libel. I have made no legal action or legal threat. The nature of the material is, however, defamatory and should be deleted as per:
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Penthouse and leaving one para on a minor Guam project (rendering the career section bizarre); and willfully adding a paragraph which directly maligns the subject :
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o YellowMonkey please declare any Conflicts of Interest. Are you a cricket writer seeing themselves in competition with Roland Perry in cricket writing?
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Haruspex101 replies and encourages YellowMonkey to come to this Dispute Resolution Talk Page to work together on the substantive material under dispute:
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Have added broader biographical information on the subject Roland Perry -- which includes balance of sourced reviews... some positive and some critical.
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2039:@Haruspex: Criticizing somebody's work is not libel. If a person publishes their work for the world to see, it's natural that there will be criticisms.
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An independent review of YellowMonkey's messages in July 2009 to these users may reveal personal requests for intervention on the Roland Perry article.
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o Unprotect Roland Perry page. Haruspex then edits in closer Bio of Living Author style and what is now understood to be Neutral Point of View (NPOV).
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With the complete deletion of Roland Perry content that you have done on three occasions the Adminstrator has locked the page for dispute resolution.
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It is curious to me why comments that you make on Roland Perry's cricket writing are mostly negative, when I note for instance that you (along with
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Hello Mattinbgn. Lead para is one issue. Do you have a view on YellowMonkey deleting the entire rest of the re-edited NPOV Roland Perry content?
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Please direct your higher-level edit skills towards specific parts of the new material rather than mass-deletion as an edit-war is not becoming.
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o Is a novice Knowledge editor. Has never added Knowledge content before, and would welcome assistance with the technical aspects of doing so.
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All of these users are Administrators entrusted with privileged user rights -- and with those rights comes a need for scrutiny and oversight.
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there is no need for me to talk to you anymore. I just need to get all the other cricket editors to sign here saying you're a waste of time.
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claims to have insider KGB information also need indept references; Perry's no Litvinenko and if he was he probably would be dead by now.
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that automatically updates weekly to show all articles covered by this project which are marked with cleanup tags. (also available in
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The following "small change" version leaves the comment still defamatory, libels the subject Roland Perry and invites legal action:
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When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
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reliable sources backing up those claims. There's a difference between reporting negative but well-known facts, and libel.
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The content of the Roland Perry article has already been edited extensively by an experienced independent editor
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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
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Also I note that amongst a number of your Knowledge awards you have been awarded a "Featured Article" star for:
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https://web.archive.org/web/20091013170704/http://www.writers.asn.au/uploads/file/pdf/FAWResults2004.pdf
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like Robinson and Pollard that are now out of print and are not in libraries, as 90% of the content is
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Also the following entry is defamatory, libels the subject Roland Perry and invites legal action:
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http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=User_talk:YellowMonkey&diff=301708590&oldid=301708257
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http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=User_talk:YellowMonkey&diff=301707722&oldid=301707329
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http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=User_talk:YellowMonkey&diff=301695541&oldid=301680673
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before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template
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It should be immediately deleted -- if an independent Adminstrator could please see to that.
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It should be immediately deleted -- if an independent Adminstrator could please see to that.
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o Criticism sourced from one rival cricket writer was added on 12 Dec 2008 by Mattinbgn user
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Domestic cricket coverage is needed for Bangladesh, Canada, Kenya, Pakistan, Sri Lanka and
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o Please all-the-world contribute on the Roland Perry factual material in a balanced way.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Roland_Perry&diff=303205467&oldid=303137426
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http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Roland_Perry&diff=301966340&oldid=301966078
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http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Roland_Perry&diff=301966803&oldid=301966340
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http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Roland_Perry&diff=301966340&oldid=301966078
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which aims to expand and organise information better in articles related to the sport of
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If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with
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issues in terms of the criticism. I've removed the criticism summary from the lead as
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where 296 of the 573 references and citations are to: Roland Perry "Miller's Luck"
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page before substantive edits are made with consensus to the Roland Perry article.
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Miller’s Luck: the life and loves of Keith Miller, Australia’s greatest all-rounder
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Miller’s Luck: The Life and Loves of Keith Miller, Australia’s Greatest All-rounder
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selective critical/negative material? Is there a Conflict of Interest (COI) here?
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Independent editors and administrators are required for the Roland Perry article.
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Investigation into YellowMonkey Conflicts of Interest (COI) are also required.
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The diffs Haruspex101 pointed out above are not libel. They contain numerous,
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Problems with the Roland Perry page have returned. The very experienced user
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o Has worked with Tim Burstall and Roland Perry on film development projects
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and articles about women's cricket generally especially biographies and tours
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If you're feeling ambitious for the article as a whole you could head to
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a consensus on the content for the benefit of the Roland Perry article.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Roland_Perry&oldid=303248300
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I would appreciate any ideas and assistance to resolve these problems.
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o YellowMonkey returns and deletes all new material in its entirety
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The previous posts were a collection of criticism with small scope.
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Knowledge:WikiProject Cricket/summary of international tour articles
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was right-handed as expert over a cutting-edge world leader? The
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Add pictures (and remove template from address requests) in these
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I have not cherrypicked criticism, Haruspex/Perry has. I went to
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Despite many invitations, the YellowMonkey user has not used the
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o Replace outdated first bio intro paragraph with the following:
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o YellowMonkey please fully declare any Conflicts of Interest.
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Create or expand articles on international tours from items in
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Create articles from redlinks and improve existing articles in
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where 37 of the 59 Notes are to: Roland Perry "Miller's Luck"
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from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially
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http://www.writers.asn.au/uploads/file/pdf/FAWResults2004.pdf
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I have made this entry on Current Requests for Unprotection:
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Create articles about 19th century players who are listed in
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Low-importance biography (arts and entertainment) articles
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for additional information. I made the following changes:
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for cricketers who have excelled in international cricket.
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Look forward to your considered edits on the material.
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A number of lists need to be updated, can be found in
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Create biographies about Bangladeshi players from the
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YellowMonkey deletes entire changes without comment:
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Category:Knowledge requested images of cricket people
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has ruled many times that scientific journals trump
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2268:(last update: 5 June 2024)
2204:Hello fellow Wikipedians,
1836:reversion voluntarily to:
1514:. Random House Australia.
1469:. Random House Australia.
1021:Haruspex101 (novice user)
425:project's importance scale
214:project's importance scale
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1569:. Macmillan, Australia.
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1031:11:13, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
1000:01:12, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
375:This article is part of
176:Australia-related topics
2200:External links modified
1438:Knowledge:Good articles
734:ICC Elite referee panel
604:task force redlink list
164:is within the scope of
2140:cricket calendar poll!
2111:cricket calendar poll!
2082:incorrectly said that
2026:cricket calendar poll!
1925:cricket calendar poll!
1819:cricket calendar poll!
1607:YellowAssessmentMonkey
1593:OBJECTIVITY OF EDITORS
1565:Perry, Roland (1995).
1541:Perry, Roland (1994).
1510:Perry, Roland (2005).
1465:Perry, Roland (2004).
1099:o Is not Roland Perry
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826:Arts and Entertainment
706:On this day in cricket
653:National cricket teams
618:batting/bowling graphs
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2249:regular verification
1530:. Aurum Press. 2006.
1094:Haruspex101 Arrives:
755:Women's Test cricket
679:Cricket Australia XI
496:fair and unfair play
480:for importance: see
2239:After February 2018
2079:The Cricket Society
1036:Hello YellowMonkey
675:Template:Cr-Aus/doc
504:first-class cricket
378:WikiProject Cricket
2293:InternetArchiveBot
2244:InternetArchiveBot
1006:Att: YellowMonkey
977:Att: YellowMonkey
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1790:Haruspex101
1775:Haruspex101
1666:Haruspex101
1422:Haruspex101
1390:Haruspex101
1350:Haruspex101
1290:Haruspex101
1284:—Preceding
1252:Haruspex101
1209:Haruspex101
1195:And so on:
1182:Haruspex101
1146:Haruspex101
1073:Background:
1050:Haruspex101
1023:Haruspex101
992:Haruspex101
484:for details
72:Start-class
2313:Categories
2300:Report bug
1910:isomorphic
1727:block user
1721:filter log
1686:Extract:
1453:References
793:Wiktionary
570:CSV format
391:talk pages
110:Literature
2283:this tool
2276:this tool
1733:block log
1612:Mattinbgn
1484:cite book
1420:brewing.
1371:Mattinbgn
1316:Melbourne
885:Biography
821:Biography
577:Infoboxes
516:leg break
185:Australia
172:Australia
106:Melbourne
101:Australia
40:libellous
2289:Cheers.—
2183:WP:UNDUE
2071:Cricinfo
2053:contribs
1968:contribs
1952:numerous
1703:contribs
1298:contribs
1286:unsigned
642:Zimbabwe
2213:my edit
2179:WP:NPOV
1318:-based
749:Expand
728:Expand
723:Umpires
616:Create
568:and in
555:Cleanup
524:not out
512:innings
494:Update
450:history
423:on the
396:Cricket
387:project
383:cricket
339:Cricket
282:at the
212:on the
2187:WP:SYN
2157:Reboot
2092:arbcom
2075:Wisden
1987:Hello
1493:|isbn=
1491:Check
1405:look?
1320:author
762:Update
685:Images
540:wicket
508:googly
472:Check
78:scale.
2191:Rd232
2164:Rd232
1656:Rd232
1442:Rd232
1417:Rd232
1407:Rd232
782:Other
744:Women
460:purge
455:watch
2175:diff
2046:anaɢ
2004:talk
1993:anaɢ
1961:anaɢ
1891:talk
1794:talk
1779:talk
1715:logs
1697:talk
1670:talk
1571:ISBN
1547:ISBN
1516:ISBN
1497:help
1471:ISBN
1426:talk
1394:talk
1354:talk
1294:talk
1256:talk
1213:talk
1186:talk
1150:talk
1054:talk
1027:talk
996:talk
874:and
771:and
700:here
677:for
629:here
627:and
625:here
445:edit
389:and
308:help
301:The
174:and
2257:RfC
2227:to
791:to
715:at
415:Low
204:Low
29:BLP
2315::
2270:.
2265:}}
2261:{{
2181:/
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