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gas turbines, and other products. I did not notice the tag that said "go to another page to read about the Luxury
Automobile", bocause I know about Rolls-Royce brand airplane engines from watching World War 2 histories and from other experiences, and watched movies and read ads and went to car shows that showed some fancy cars, Rolls Royce brand. I thought of "Rolls Royce is a weird company that makes luxury cars and airplane engines". So, if there are two or more independently owned and operated companies, all of them named "Rolls-Royce", someone who knows alot about the history of Rolls-Royce should add a section that states that situation ( I expect to disambiguate if I get very large differences like "Submarine 'Seaview' in TV programs" and "Seaview Hotel and Condominiums" ). If Rolls=Royce stopped making luxury cars, I'd like to see "made luxury cars until __year__" in the product list, and a link to a page about the cars, so that I could easily conclude that the company no longer makes cars if it stopped making them, or that several businesses have the same name if that's the case. I did not fix the page even though I subsequenlty read another page about 'Bavarian Motor Werken, BMW, makes Rolls-Royce cars and Vickers Corp. used to do so' because 1 want alot facts more than Knowledge supplies before I conclude "did Rolls Royce sell the car brand to BMW"? Or "did Rolls-Royce sign a contract for another company to produce Rolls-Royce cars"? I'd like someone who knows alot about Rolls-Royce to add "Luxury cars" to the product list, or to make one of the fixes that I'm contending should be done.
402:"Rolls Royce pays millions of Dollars a year in secret corruption and slush funds to help sell their aero engines to airlines that will be "advised" (or forced!) by those receiving the secret slush funds. Just one example is that Tommy Suharto (son of the ex-Indonesian president) was given about 20 million dollars and a new blue Rolls Royce car by Rolls Royce (before he was jailed for murder!) to force the Indonesian airline Garuda to take the R-R Trent 700 engine on the A330 aircraft they were buying. They got a really bad commercial deal and the follow-on warranty and support was probably the worst any operator had ever had. When Tommy was jailed, Rolls then paid his millionaire friend, Soetikno about 1 million dollars a year! This was supported by the Rolls exec in Indonesia (Dr Mike Gray) because Mike was given "personal benefit" by Soetikno to keep the contract going. Mike even used RR staff to support the bar girl he was "knocking off" when his wife was away.
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that it's not entirely clear which is the primary target article for the DAB page, it's not crucial as long as all the articles are hat noted so that the reader can get where they want to easily. I think discussion for a change to the DAB links should take place on the DAB talk page (there is a short discussion there already). I would have no objection to this article changing to Rolls-Royce Group or Rolls-Royce Group plc (the company's full current title) with mention in the article of when the name changed (when 'Group' was added) if it was thought completely necessary. Sometimes we use company full titles and sometimes we don't, it allows inconsistency, personally I think we should always use full company titles, there might be a guideline somewhere on it,
528:
which is obviously incorrect. Stating
England instead of the UK would also be incorrect as England is not a sovereign nation. Adding the Union Flag gives people an additional iconic symbol to associate with the UK that is probably far better known than the UK or the United Kingdom. Because we, the writers of the encyclopaedia, know the difference between the UK and England and know where the UK is, does not mean that we should presume (wrongly) that other people also know this information. Looking at the article with a flag in place, it makes it easier for the casual reader to scan the page for info without reading. Visual aids should not be dismissed. Furthermore, a flag will mean a degree of consistency with other companies.
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history there is bound to be a need for disambiguation and from what I can see of the DAB page it is handled pretty well. 'Group' seems to have been added recently and helps to confuse the situation! If the addition of 'Group' to their name is significant in change of activities then we should 'close' this article and start a new one with the new company title. I would imagine that they were just 'plc' originally, it was a 70s thing, even my bank added it! The Rolls-Royce
Limited article does need to be turned into a company article as there is far too much emphasis (mainly images) on the cars (lovely as they may be!!). We are probably lacking a
1121:. Because of that, the DAB page is at the correct location. "plc" is used as a disambguator; in most companies, the names are generally unique, and thus don't need to be disambiguated. It doens't matter what the current company is known as, or even if the own the legal rights to use the name "Rolls-Royce" by itself - what matters is what people who search for "Rolls-Royce" on WP expect to find if they type in that name. Unless you can prove that by far "Rolls-Royce" is typed in to mean the current company this articel is about, the DAB page is going to stay at
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Flags " Help the reader rather than decorate - Flag icons are commonly misused as decoration. Adding a country's flag next to its name does not provide additional encyclopedic information in a general context, and is often simply distracting. Knowledge generally strongly eschews the use of images for
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OK. I tend to the view one or other should be primary. If it's not the aerospace company, it's the cars. I have to say, Google response counts tend to suggest the latter from a quick check. However, even if things stay the same on disambig, that still leaves the issue of this page name - it probably
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Even if this material is referenced and corroborated, the nature of the material is not suited for inclusion in this entry. Perhaps a brief note about its corporate practices with a link to a separate entry where the details may appear. One sentence should do it. Those who may be interested to learn
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iteration of the same company which makes complete sense to me. This article is about the continuation of that company, primarily producing aircraft engines, other Rolls-Royce activities are not mentioned (the car division has been sold on hasn't it?). With a company as large as RR with a very long
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M Gordon. writer: This page is confusing. I read the 1st paragraph, listing airplane engines and other products. I concluded that the company produces Luxury Cars, Airplane
Engines, and additional products. Then I got to the product list and expected to see automobiles listed with airplane engines,
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It is tricky, I'm sure if I asked people in the street what the name Rolls-Royce meant to them they would say 'cars', I would say cars and engines (in that order as the cars came first). The DAB page lists RR cars, RR limited and RR plc in that order which I think is correct. I think Bill is right
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Thanks, that's just an another image gallery really and does no justice to them, there are probably individual car type articles but they need linking together in a better way, the same as we do the aero engines (navboxes, 'see also' sections etc). I would love to do it but don't know a lot about
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I think the main issue is if this article is the primary topic, meaning will it be the main page people are looking for when they type in "Rolls-Royce". Without seeing the particulars from the DAB page (what articles are clicked on the most, which I don't know how to find), I'd have to guess that
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states right up at the top: "Flag icons may be appropriate in infoboxes to indicate nationality...." Later it says flag icons shouldn't be repeated in infoboxes, implying that their use in infoboxes is acceptable. Furthermore, as far as governments are concerned (especially the U.S. government),
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Many people outside of the UK, and some inside, do not recognise the UK as a country and are confused about it (various surveys, including one conducted by a UK national newspaper in the USA that gave results saying that the UK is in the Middle East). Many people think of the UK as being
England,
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To look at this article,it appears to be written by the publicity department of Rolls Royce. Is there any reference to product faults from Rolls Royce or does the company have a perfect production record? If anyone knows of Qantas QF32 incident, and lawsuit following, there are questions needed.
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is wrong, not least because the "plc" bit could be added to just about every corporation, taking us away in many cases from commonname. Given the history, there obviously is a need to disambiguate but I do wonder if this shouldn't now be what you come to if you just type
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as the first article and then a hatnote to the disambig page? This Rolls-Royce is (a) overwhelmingly bigger, (b) I would argue better known now - certainly when the media says "Rolls Royce", they almost always now mean the aerospace company, (c) the "old" company is now
964:, and the article could be expanded from there. We could move this part of the discussion to that page if you like, as the present company has nothing to do with RR cars. I may just move the page anyway if you don't object, and see what happens with a new title. -
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this is not priamry page selected, and probably not number one either. Several of the articles on the DAB page would all have a claim at using "Rolls-Royce" as their title (legality aside), meaning that no one page clearly is the primary topic. That all means that
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I completely agree and would suggest something like 'This article is about the aircraft engine and power systems company'. This would not be overly long and would be far more accurate (if still not quite perfect). Does anyone have any
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Two WP articles (one on A380 and one on Trent 900 engine) are not reflected or mentioned in this corporate page,nor do I find mention of
Quantas. Did RR PLC not have special reserves to cover the legal outcome (2006-2011) ?
792:, as does the media in most coverage, (2) the Wiki page for Rolls-Royce Motor Cars is already named thus, (3) Rolls-Royce Group plc is now far larger than Rolls-Royce Motor Cars, and (4) the official name of the company is
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corporations are treated like citizens in most respects, and given most of the same rights, except for the right to vote. As such, corporations have nationalities, and a visual aid to identify it is indeed appropriate.
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The article isn't confusing so much as wrong. The engine development in the article is extremley amateur, mixing up a th engine types in the manner of a poorly crafted advertisement rather than a scholarly
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I think you're just assuming that it's not the primary topic and that the cars are. But if that's so, the cars shouldn't be off at Rolls Royce (car) and this page should be Rolls Royce (something else).
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was still alive and it would have been inappropriate and impolite for its employees to refer to the company as 'Rolls' when one of the founders was still living and heading the company. Hence 'Royce's'
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says that this should not be done unless there is a compelling reason to do so. What reason can there be, particularly as Rolls-Royce is a
British company? Some spellings are now plain wrong: eg the
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them but I know somebody that does but he's not a
Wikipedian sadly. The question here was about the article title, would like to hear the response from the questioner to the points put forward.
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This material is not suitable for wikipedia; it should be removed on sight unless sufficient references and corroboration is provided. Other Rolls-Royce articles may be similarly targeted. --
731:. I know we don't want this to look like an advertisement, but only stating that it is 'an aero engine maker' only shows half the picture and ignores the companies' other areas of business.
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Your suggestion means the same but uses more words, the lead of an article is only a summary of the contents, as it is a summary it uses as few, albeit accurate, words as possible. See
1516:
This seems a bit more complicated. The ordinary shares are listed under Rolls-Royce
Holdings plc on the London Stock Exchange so that seems to be the ultimate holding company. See
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I have reverted several instances of unreferenced and potentially libelous material (concerning corporate corruption and bribery) which were added by the following IP addresses:
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Not really. Its main factory and headquarters are in
Britain, so it's British. It has international investors and branches in many countries, so it's multinational. The
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RR is commonly said to have gone bankrupt in 1971. However, strictly speaking it went into receivership - only individuals and partnerships can go bankrupt - see
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I am just curious, but does anyone know of the nickname for Rolls Royce aero engines? (ie. GE = generally expensive, P&W = Partly working, RR=? )
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Rolls-Royce plc (LSE: RR.) is a British aircraft engine maker. The company has related businesses in the defence aerospace, marine and energy markets.
482:
I have no doubt the user in question was acting in good faith, however they showed a glaring misunderstanding/ignorance of policy. I have reverted.
1469:– "Holdings" doesn't seem to be part of the company name, as it refers to itself as Rolls-Royce plc. See legal information on the company website
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about corporate corrupt practices may go further but not everyone will be interested. What big business isn't guilty of it. It is old news. FC
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Darkieboy236, I would appreciate it if you didn't plagiarize the words of other editors. What you wrote above are my words, that I wrote on
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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a
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and (d) it helps people from outside the UK and non-experts to understand the current situation. So I would move for the following:
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with a lot of common material. but neither being at all definitive. No mention here for instance of the very important merger with
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Rolls-Royce is a British industrial conglomerate, concentrating on the manufacture of turbine based energy and propulsion systems.
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article. As an encyclopedia, should we not be using the correct term rather than the commonly-used incorrect one? Any views??--
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Again, the problem is that "Rolls-Royce" is probably not the clear primary topic by a long shot, per WP guidelines such as
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It's actually not that big a change other than moving this article to it's common name and reversing the disambig problem.
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
786:, since: (1) that is arguably the 'common name' - on the Rolls-Royce Group plc website they refer to themselves simply as
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Isn't it erroneous to refer to the company as simply an engine maker. I think it should be re-written, to something like
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In my experience, at Derby its nickname is Royce's everywhere else it is Rolls. Strange lot them Derby people
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This is confusing - I just ended up on the Rolls-Royce plc page and it mentioned no military engine since the
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decorative purposes, preferring those that provide additional essential information or needed illustration."
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after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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830:. The "plc" is probably not necessary except for DABbing, which isn't needed if we use "Group". -
1125:. You are of course welco to propose the moves be made, but I don't forsee that happening now. -
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Should there not be See Also if there are no links to the relevant Wp articles in the text ?
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a global business providing integrated power systems for use on land, at sea and in the air
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Bit contradictory to say "British multinational" in the first sentence, don't you think?
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and change the text where you consider it necessary – if you do happen to get it wrong,
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article is vague, so there is a lot of leeway in using that word. I am not sure, as
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As I understand it the 'plc' is use to disambiguate from the earlier nationalised
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The Bloomberg article on the settlement suggests that this was no minor issue:
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If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the
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This corporate article may deserve "advert" scrutiny by an experienced editor.
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Yes, but it's still misleading. For example, the company describes itself as
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primary topic, which is why I support the DAB page remaining where it is. -
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1519:. It appears that Rolls Royce plc is used as the principal trading entity.
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HP does not own Rolls-Royce Plc - it is an entirely independent company.
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Coming back to the discussion about this article, I tend to think
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I feel that the title of this article might be better as simply
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Worked at RR PLC Derby for 2 years & didn't know of one!
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The result of the move request was: No consensus to move
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is not available for this page. The alternatives would be
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article where this stuff should rightly be covered IMO.
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changed lots of spellings from UK to US English. The
1339:Rolls-Royce Reaches Engine Settlement With Qantas
408:Dick Taylor. (ex Rolls-Royce Chief Service Rep)"
641:For a large part of the company's early history
472:I vote we go back to UK spellings. Any views? --
434:Modified the relevant text. Please feel free
1349:G. Robert Shiplett 15:03, 6 April 2012 (UTC)
1286:Title says it all. I think HP owns them now
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559:. Please make your own arguments. Thanks. =
1416:The following is a closed discussion of a
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1329:Quantas A380 issues with Trent 900 engine
399:Is this the material that was posted?
44:Do not edit the contents of this page.
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517:Thanks for leaving off the flags. -
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1537:The discussion above is closed.
1081:to point to this (moved) article.
440:a consensus will hopefully emerge
158:) 20:22, 25 November 2004 (UTC)
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1094:(the disambig page) to move to
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1197:shouldn't be Rolls-Royce plc.
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1047:This article to be moved from
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1002:moved it about an hour ago. -
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962:List of Rolls-Royce motor cars
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497:Actually FLAGCRUFT says flags
128:Why have we got two articles,
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1481:) 09:21, 13 April 2020 (UTC)
1166:No. I'm assuming there is no
1058:Hatnote link to disambig for
960:could (ought to) be moved to
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1409:Requested move 13 April 2020
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1096:Rolls Royce (disambiguation)
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416:Bankruptcy or Receivership?
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541:isn't an official policy.
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1387:Multinational corporation
574:Nicknames for Rolls Royce
18:Talk:Rolls-Royce Holdings
1539:Please do not modify it.
1423:Please do not modify it.
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442:to put it right! --
850:Rolls-Royce Limited
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405:Lots more to come!
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1360:— Preceding
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669:Engine Maker
648:— Preceding
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77:— Preceding
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1428:move review
1123:Rolls-Royce
1092:Rolls Royce
1079:Rolls Royce
1067:Rolls-Royce
1060:Rolls Royce
1053:Rolls Royce
1034:Rolls Royce
820:Rolls-Royce
788:Rolls-Royce
780:Rolls-Royce
654:86.8.126.91
643:Henry Royce
587:Firefox tao
581:—Preceding
459:Wjcollier07
130:Rolls-Royce
36:This is an
1486:Relisting.
1242:floats by)
1230:WP:COMPANY
930:floats by)
867:floats by)
709:floats by)
436:to be bold
422:Bankruptcy
376:block user
346:filter log
307:block user
277:filter log
238:block user
208:filter log
121:Soarhead77
1521:Dormskirk
1238:(Cumulus
1232:perhaps?
1090:Existing
926:(Cumulus
885:There is
863:(Cumulus
804:Rangoon11
756:Rangoon11
754:thoughts?
729:home page
705:(Cumulus
537:Although
453:Spellings
382:block log
313:block log
244:block log
140:in 1966.
61:Archive 1
1374:contribs
1362:unsigned
1311:unsigned
1290:unsigned
1282:HP ties?
650:unsigned
623:unsigned
595:contribs
583:unsigned
334:contribs
265:contribs
196:contribs
156:contribs
148:Linuxlad
144:unsigned
98:article.
79:unsigned
70:Untitled
1240:nimbus
928:nimbus
865:nimbus
727:on its
707:nimbus
543:WP:FLAG
539:WP:FLAG
506:WP:FLAG
39:archive
1514:Oppose
1475:Elshad
1366:Ganulu
1234:Nimbus
1172:BilCat
1127:BilCat
1004:BilCat
998:Done!
966:BilCat
922:Nimbus
895:BilCat
859:Nimbus
832:BilCat
798:, not
701:Nimbus
607:LewisR
519:BillCJ
503:should
484:Mark83
165:Mark83
115:Merlin
1168:clear
826:, or
474:JCG33
426:JCG33
352:WHOIS
283:WHOIS
214:WHOIS
16:<
1525:talk
1497:uidh
1479:talk
1471:here
1444:uidh
1399:talk
1395:TGCP
1370:talk
1319:talk
1298:talk
1273:talk
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1176:talk
1150:talk
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1108:talk
1077:and
1008:talk
970:talk
899:talk
836:talk
808:talk
760:talk
737:talk
686:talk
658:talk
631:talk
611:talk
591:talk
561:Axlq
370:http
364:RBLs
358:RDNS
328:talk
301:http
295:RBLs
289:RDNS
259:talk
232:http
226:RBLs
220:RDNS
190:talk
152:talk
132:and
107:talk
87:talk
1051:to
499:may
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