Talk:Roswell incident - Knowledge (XXG)

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jury that there were bodies at Roswell, we'd 'rest our case' without introducing the Haut affidavit and then watching it get ripped to shreds for being composed by someone else, contradicting prior statement, his financial interest via the museum, etc. We don't need it to understand the case. Sapho Henderson (secondhand hearsay witness who did filmed interviews) is a MILLION times better of a "witness" to bodies than the Haut affidavit, but we don't mention her because that's just plain WAY too much detail for our readers.

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unusual candidate as a sacred pilgrimage site. The city is much like other cities - a long main street features the usual Wal-Mart and McDonald's. But upon closer inspection, Roswell is different. The McDonald's is shaped like a flying saucer and the Wal-Mart has a UFO theme. The Roswell visitor's cen- ter has welcome mats with UFOs on them, and every street light has a globe painted to look like an alien.

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get the phrase into the article, I/we'd need to have a very mainstream RS talking about that term, in more than a passing mention, with regards to Roswell incident. (But of course, even if/when that milestone is crossed, the RS will also almost certainly discuss the more mundane theory that it was just Metallised PET, later known as Mylar(tm), which it turns out was in existence in 1947 US.)

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could take some time soon and convert the repeated full citations. I think it's no big deal though to have single use citations mixed in with shortened footnotes. I've been using {{sfn}}and feel like it's a strength of the format because it allows visual editor users to contribute." Maybe you made a reply I never saw.

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be a step in the right direction, showing that the affidavit actually did make an impact on the cultural zeitgeist. But alas, he's just writing in the MUFON newsletter -- If I tried adding it, people just remove it and remind me that MUFON isn't "outside the sourcing ecosystem of the fringe theory itself" per

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latter story IS one worth telling, but only if we can find REALLY good sources -- like a book-length treatment by a non-Ufologist historian, ethnologist, or other such type. So for now, without those sources, any article we tried to create on the topic would just get deleted (which is as it should be).

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earlier on July 8 about a crashed saucer in Lancaster CA -- so Joyce's memory may actually make perfect sense. The Wikimedia Library's access to the Newspaper archive is currently down, or I'd send you clips instead of a BBS archive link, but it was covered all over earlier that day and its easy to

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Thanks for the links, they did help me pin down the first public mention of the foil to the 1979 interview. And thanks for pointing out that the article never actually mentioned Marcel's uncrumpling foil. It does now, though perhaps not in the precise terms (memory metal) that you might prefer. To

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Jr and his father also discussed various other materials they found and what they might be. What it might be (fiber optics, etc.) is pure speculation on their part. In fact they said they were speculating. I don't think that necessarily merits being in the article. But the fact that the foil returned

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And I'd like to fix that -- but the source you linked isn't a reliable source, and if I tried to add it, it would just get removed (as it should be). I've looked (hard) for a RS talking about the memory metal thing, and I couldn't find one that met Knowledge (XXG)'s standards (which I agree with).

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article and their understanding of the Roswell incident? We have plenty of people who said they saw bodies, loudly and vocally, during their lifetimes. People who gave filmed interviews, spread stories for twenty years before Haut's affidavit. If this is a courtroom and we wanted to convince the

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To the northeast, not far from Roswell, something crashed on a sheep ranch in June 1947. W. W. “Mac” Brazel, who found the wreckage, didn’t know what it was. The records of Project Mogul weren’t made public until the ’90s, so there was plenty of time for a lush Roswellian mythology to germinate and

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Timeshifter, I like your thinking with going looking for RSes to verify the importance of the material you want included. When I saw your summary, I did get hopeful that there was something I had overlooked. An in-depth review, penned by Friedman, in a widely-distributed major publication, might

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In July of that year, a balloon train came down on the Foster Ranch, 75 miles northwest of Roswell, New Mexico. Rancher "Mac" Brazel, who had been reading about flying saucers, reported it to the local Sheriff, who in turn reported a crashed flying saucer to a Major Jesse Marcel at Roswell Army Air

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Now, apart from this article, we all know there's a whole strand of UFOlogy, going back to the 1960s/70s, that Battelle was somehow getting the actual scoop on UFOs, and then that later got merged with the memory metal story into a "Battelle reverse engineered memory metal from UFOS" story. That

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I think we have reached an impasse. I hope to do an RFC soon on whether the Roswell story ended in the 1990s. It clearly has not. There were affidavit articles in 2007 and since then. It, along with Roswell in general, is still discussed in many media. See the previous threads I linked to. Besides

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affidavit was previously mentioned in the article here but was removed. I think it should be returned, and I don't think it is too much of an ask. I think it is a smear on his legacy to only mention his involvement with the initial 1947 news article, and his subsequent cooperation with its coverup

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I guess I should ask you to actually clarify what you want done to improve the references. Last year, you were asked "Do you mean the combination of shortened footnotes via {{harv}} with repeated full citations? Which is the article's original format for repeated references? I'm assuming harv. I

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The GA review process is interactive -- a reviewer comes and looks over the article and makes suggestions and then you improve the text according to those suggestions. Per Rjjiii, I'm not even sure this article's citation style is problematic tbh, I'm primarily interested in the GA to see if it

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The next step in the development of the crashed saucer stories was a book-The Roswell Incident-written by Charles Berlitz and William L. Moore. It was centered on the July 1947 report that the Army Air Force at Roswell, New Mexico, had recovered debris from a crashed "flying disk." The next day it

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That article also discusses some of the many witnesses to the alien bodies, the crash sites, and the craft too. I mean there are many books that have interviewed many witnesses, and their families. The problem is that some of the editors of this page are claiming that the many books, articles, and

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apply: If this citation thing is really important to you, then this is your time to shine and help us be all that we can be. I don't think anyone has any objections if you want to harmonize the article's sources, and I also don't think it's the end of the world if you object to GA status over a

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18 On July 8, 1947, the Roswell Daily Record published headline that stated "RAAF Captures Flying Saucer on Region. The resurrection of the "Roswell Incident," as it has come to be known, provides a modern window through which the creation of sacred space can be understood. Roswell might seem an

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On June 14, 1947, a rancher named Mack Brazel found a large amount of paper, rubber, and foil garbage scattered across his land––and ignored it. Mogul Flight #4 would then have remained lost forever, had not a “businessman pilot” by the name of Kenneth Arnold sighted the world’s very first flying

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as much as possible. "Incident" is probably fine for the pop culture stuff. If something is a historical fact, a conspiracy theory, an urban legend, or part of a book, the article should say that. Many sources qualify "Incident" in several ways to avoid saying it in their voice. The sources cited

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article, we have to help people understand the 1980s and 90s cultural phenomenon. But Knowledge (XXG) is not censored -- we DO cover the Haut affidavit on his own bio, and we could conceivably also cover it on an article about the book it was featured in or its author(s). At some point in the

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Polishing references is usually the last thing to do in a workflow, we're still at the stage of ruling out bigger problems and soliciting other suggestions. When GA/FA hinges only upon reference polishing, we'll know the references are ready for a final polish. (but also, props to anyone who

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For those who believe that Earth has been visited by extraterrestrial spacecraft, a remote New Mexico ranch is hallowed ground. Decades after something fell from the sky outside Roswell, the New Mexico town is now a tourist destination, complete with UFO museums, gift shops and guided tours. It

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Just responding off the top of my head ala brainstorming. I always think of The Roswell Incident as a 1980s-era myth (after the eponymous book), that drew upon a mundane set of events in 1947. So far as I'm aware, no one calls it "The Roswell Incident" until the CT. I feel like NPOV/V could

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Joyce sounds plausible when he recalls talking to Brazel and referring him to RAAF. If local media _had_ been helpful in making the referral, that might actually go a little bit towards explaining the bizarre choice to issue a press release. Joyce seems to have a clear memory of initial great

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Per Frank Joyce himself, he is not a reliable source, "I was there when it happened and I’ve read so much about it, but darned if I know what’s true anymore. (Goldberg, 202)." There is something that I see in some sources, but only attributed to Joyce. Pflock (2001) cites a taped interview with

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Marcel Jr is mentioned in the article, and we link to video(s) featuring him. But his analogy of the debris to 'memory metal' doesn't have the sourcing yet to merit inclusion -- primarilty for all the reasons Rjjiii describes, but also for other reasons too. The Marcels likened the debris to

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Accounts from Roswell do not describe "memory metal", they talk about a lightweight foil that can be crumpled and unfolds automatically: Think mylar balloons. If you heated the foil and it folded into an origami crane, that might be like "memory metal". I've been on the lookout for a good RS

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using for witnesses to super-strong lightweight metal also have those witnesses witnessing the crumpling/uncrumpling ability. So there is no reason not to mention the crumpling/uncrumpling ability. Some source might claim that the military had super-strong lightweight metals back then. But the

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But then Joyce will turn around and say something that's obviously a false memory (or worse). Why confiscate a single press release that's already been reprinted world-wide? A smell of dead bodies at the Brazel site? The term "little green men" used in '47 when it wasn't coined until '51?

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It is a statement of fact (to Jr.), not opinion, that his father told him these things. The interpretation of what his father told is left up to readers and everything else they have read. Both father and son handled a material that returned to its original shape after crunching it together.

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But that's not Knowledge (XXG)'s fault. We're a summary of a certain set of sources (the "Reliable Sources"), we're not journalists writing out our own original research and opinions. Believers and skeptics all agree that the reliable sources are reporting Roswell was a Mogul balloon, so we

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interviewed Walter Haut over years, and compiled the info. Walther Haut read it, alongside his daughter who reviewed all of it with him, and he signed it in front of a notary. That is 4 witnesses to him signing it in 2002 3 years before his death in 2005. See my previous threads for all the

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It's not. This is a controversial topic, I'm completely fine with it never being a GA, if that's what's best for the project. I nominate it to solicit ways to improve it. I honestly don't think your proposed changes constitute an improvement, and my evaluation is only strengthened by your

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I'm open to that, but what would the title be instead? Something like '1947 balloon recovery by Roswell Army Air Field'? Or should we put the title in scare quotes maybe, to help reader understand it's a proper phrase? I'm attached to nothing on this part -- ledes are not my forte.

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to its shape after crumpling is a fact, not speculation on their part. A fact to them at least. That merits reporting in the article. So we have both primary and secondary sources. And primary sources are not disallowed on Knowledge (XXG). Especially when backed up by secondary sources.

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Timeshifter doesn't phrase it well, but it turns out they have a small point. The current article text never mentions the 'uncrumplable foil' (which, OR but sounds likea proto-Mylar). Do you happen to recall when that entered the story? I presume the 1980 Roswell Incident book?

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We have whole movies about Jesse Marcel and Glenn Dennis's stories, but the late-dated Haut affidavit is only really discussed in one book and it sort of fizzled. The Roswell Incident, the story, doesn't really feature any tales of a young press officer seeing dead bodies. On

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Knowledge (XXG) should report what he said to many in the news media and elsewhere. Whether it is alien or not is another question. The fact is that no such material has been reported as existing in 1947. There are many reliable sources for that. It is a simple technical fact.

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Friedman, Moore, Berliner, Randle, Schmitt, and Carey are cited where the Knowledge (XXG) article quotes their claims or mentions their work by name. This is accompanied by reliable and independent secondary sources that often directly dispute their claims. For example,

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It would be improved with consistent citations. I did it once many years ago, but it has degraded. Why are some articles, and some books, listed in Sources but others not? It is inconsistent (unless there is some organizing principle I have missed?). Hence the template.

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RFCs are typically more for talk page disputes where two different "camps" of editors have different opinions on how to best improve an article, not so much when one editor wants so-called "fringe" content to be included while multiple other editors explain that that's

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The Roswell incident (1947) was one of a cluster of reports of UFOs in the United States in 1947. Although the purported crash site was approximately 75 miles away from Roswell, New Mexico, the investigation and subsequent conspiracy theories involved Roswell Army Air

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were 2 of the main officers involved at the time. And both said there was a craft (not balloons), and strange debris (not from balloons). Only the Jesse Marcel info is in the article. I responded to most of the other points you made in the previous

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What do you think is unclear about our current citation style, and do you have any MOS to back it up? So far as I'm aware, it's perfectly fine to have a Reference and a Sources section, with the former citing the latter. I literally just went to

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Roswell the Incident was born and bred by the mass media. From its very first breath, in July 1947, when the Associated Press reported in newspapers and radio broadcasts around the globe that a flying saucer had been scooped up in Roswell, New

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This article is currently rated C-class on Knowledge (XXG)'s content assessment scale. I have looked at the criteria for B-class and C-class articles and I believe this article meets the B-class criteria. If you agree or disagree let me know!

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Then you're not thinking NPOVly -- you have to hold both the possibility that he was honest and the possibility that he was lying in your head at the same time, and then write an article that neither perspective could tear apart. If you have

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references. Officers Walter Haut and Jesse Marcel saw the debris and the craft. Those are first-hand witnesses. There are no better witnesses mentioned in this article. And Walter Haut is only mentioned concerning his previous testimony.

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There was no "craft" other than a balloon per our reliable sources, and Knowledge (XXG) says so because it is required to be neutral. If you want to write UFO fiction, start a blog or something; trying to push that here is disruptive.

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Central to the belief in UFO lore is belief in a conspiracy by 'the Government' - and primarily those of the USA and UK - to withold the 'secret truth' from the public. The ultimate expression of this modern legend is the Roswell

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vary in whether they use "incident" to describe the 1947 historical events, the 1980 book, broader legends, some combination, or none of the above. I've also snipped sections from the cited sources that give a definition or scope.

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article, at this time, the analogy is unhelpful -- memory metal doesn't actually behave like Marcel's debris! it's not indestructible, it doesn't just automatically reform after deformation, it's not exceptionally lightweight,

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suspicions that the United States government—particularly the military and intelligence services—have ben covering up evidence of extraterrestrial visitation to the Earth. From well known cases such as the supposed “Roswell

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See the previous talk page threads I linked to with multiple articles in various media reporting on the 2002 affidavit when it came out in the book in 2007. There are also much later articles linked there reporting it too.

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None can be crumpled and immediately return to the original shape. Without creases. Even today as far as I can tell. Read the articles. Search the web (I did). The polymer requires an "external stimulus (trigger), such as

2654:) was that it put the 1947 historical facts into the very first paragraph. And then the spooky claims in context in the second paragraph. I'll refrain from specific suggestions to avoid making the lead too verbose again. 3113:

His legacy is that he refuted the coverup, and said that there were 2 crash sites, and that he had seen a craft, alien bodies, and handled wreckage material. Rather than duplicate what is written elsewhere, please see:

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After hearing you arguments, I see nothing in the MOS to suggest we can't mix CS1 and Sources. I see Rjjiii doesn't think it's problematic. And I see a FA that does the same, suggesting the project doesn't see it as

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What is "a collection of events and myths" and how can an "incident" be such a collection? Is there any sourcing for this? And if we accept this definition of "incident", subsequent sentences now make less sense, e.g.

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Ironically, this report came out on the very day that the so called Roswell incident occurred. On June 14, near Roswell, New Mexico, a rancher had found some debris on the ground. He’d brought it into town on July

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support a sentence like "The Roswell Incident never happened"; but also, this article still has way too many of my fingerprints on it and at the end of the day, 'I have no strong feelings one way or the other'

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Just wheeled back to this article after a while, and it seems to have gone odd not least because of what seems like an effort to get a "myth" wording into it. So the first (odd) sentence offers this definition:

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did not exist in 1947. Meaning the foil is crumpled at room temperature, and unfolds right away at room temperature. This type of material did not exist in the human scientific world in 1947. Certainly not in

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Which is why it has no similarity to the memory metal effect. I don't mean to suggest that the foil was literally mylar, only that a very low-tech material can do things like unfold after being crumpled.

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Took some searching to figure out what you meant by CS1, let me echo back to what I think you mean. You are concerned that we mix {{Cite web}} and {{harv}}/{{sfn}}. A spot inspection suggests FAs like

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This conspiracy narrative has its roots in a true historical event involving a classified military project initiated in 1947, at the dawn of the Cold War, and just as the UFO bug was sweeping the United

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was invented in the 1950s. Nothing existed in 1947 with the memory foil properties described by the witnesses. And it did not need to be heated to return to it shape. Crumple it, and it returned on its

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Surely the "incident" was what happened, and subsequently a bunch of people wrote a load of mostly fictional stuff about it, some of which was (according to some commentators) 'mythical' in nature?

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so-called Roswell incident of 8 July 1947—just two weeks after Kenneth Arnold’s original sighting—when a “flying disc” was reported to have crashed near the military airbase in Roswell, New Mexico

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Oh, I just used the small font cause I knew what I was saying wasn't really addressing the crux of your argument and that my aside wouldn't actually nullify the point you were trying to make.

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Not related, but hopefully they fix the situation with newspapers.com soon. Even before it was down, it was constantly cutting out. That story you linked even has ranchers, so maybe so.

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Korff (1997, pp. 65-66) talks about the foil used in MOGUL and the foil in witness accounts. Goldberg (p.196) says the 1980 book "pieces together the various accounts". Hope that helps,

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Wow, great work! I took at stab at a lede where we just straight up say Roswell Incident is a conspiracy theory; It does seem to simplify things to me, but see what ya'll think.

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It's a valid standard, but not one required for GA or FA. Don't argue with me, just go fix it. (Or don't!). I'm confident readers can ascertain where our sources are cited to.

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If some editors choose to ignore them, then that is up to them. But I have a right to post the references, and it is not disrespectful, rude, contentious, or a waste of time.

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The fact is that Jesse Marcel Jr. reported on various things his father told him about Roswell, and stuff he (Jr.) saw personally. The fact is that many reporters (that is

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is not mentioned in the article at all. The article is completely slanted to it being the Roswell "myth" and "legend". It definitely does not deserve "good article" status.

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It is a fact (to Jr.) that his father said to him that the debris wasn't from a balloon of any kind. Jr told this to many people in the news media and elsewhere. That is

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Among the thousands of stories of ufo sightings, Roswell was the most renowned site of these shifts. Thanks to a series of sensational publications by ufo investigators

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can help us find more substantive ways to improve our text. But of course I'm also on board to help fix the citation style if that's what's needed when we get there.

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So there is no argument. But if the "trifle" of a GA sticker is needed, then the "trifle" of doing the work to get the citations sorted is needed as a prerequisite.

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Marcel and Cavitt went to the ranch. Is there any evidence that this happened in that order? It would be significant if backed up, but can be left out otherwise.

808: 959: 772: 662: 528: 213: 3917: 949: 1533:". The theory that the debris came from an alien spaceship is not a statement of fact. Dr. Marcel's interpretation of the debris is also widely disputed by 3932: 3907: 3897: 3862: 3847: 3842: 3837: 3832: 3827: 3822: 3817: 3812: 3807: 3802: 3797: 3792: 858: 652: 415:. Feel free to try to improve the article, but don't take it personally if your changes are reversed; instead, come here to the talk page to discuss them. 777: 3927: 3787: 2014:

The Roswell incident is a collection of events and myths surrounding the 1947 crash of a United States Army Air Forces balloon near Roswell, New Mexico.

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I converted the 37-witness PDF to Excel, and then to a wiki table. To make it easier to work with. Also, the reference URLs at the end are clickable:

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Do you have a page number where Joyce says that (he's all over the place in Pflock 2001) / what are his exact words? I've never heard of a crashed

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https://web.archive.org/web/20210125070951/https://www.sunrisepage.com/roswell/pdf/Summary_of_Witnesses_Claims_for_a_Shape_Memory_Roswell_Foil.pdf

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It can not be crumpled and immediately return to the original shape. Without creases. The article does not discuss this at all. It only mentions

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Note: this source is a comparison of a Catholic religious site and Roswell, NM as places for pilgrimage and tourism so it has an unusual focus.

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That's likely because we have so many good sources (like Saler, Ziegler & Moore) that talk about how influential the earlier works were.

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Wait -- it looks like this has been addressed by Rjjiii already. Looks like all the SFNs have been converted to Harv -- am I mistaken?

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Some of the references in the 2 lists of references I posted concerning the memory foil are already used in this Knowledge (XXG) article.

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For believers the Roswell incident is the holy grail, and many have joined the search, making it the most studied event in ufo history.

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says: "RfCs are time consuming, and editor time is valuable. Editors should try to resolve their issues before starting an RfC. Try

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What rubbish. There is a lot of stupid stuff posted online. Do not post it here as it wastes everybody's time. Please look for the

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There is a video of Walter Haut while he was alive talking about possible alien bodies. But the bodies are not my main interest.

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saucers ten days later.Roswell is the world’s most famous, most exhaustively investigated, and most thoroughly debunked UFO claim

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on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the ongoing discussions.

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Glenn Dennis did not witness anything himself. He only heard things secondhand. So to leave out the Walter Haut info violates

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unwillingness to actually implement them yourself, much less cite any MOS suggesting we can't mix styles when FAs clearly do.

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Anybody can make stuff up / imagine things and sign a document. The question for us is, what do high-quality sources say.

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because you are almost totally writing from one viewpoint: legend and myth. This article is far from being a good article.

3045:. I had intended to, and things came up. The other changes, I think, were pretty straightforward. My concern was that a " 1534: 1484:

past 35 years Marcel appeared on TV shows, documentaries and radio shows, was interviewed for magazine articles and books

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related articles on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join

3053:" was a broader claim than what more academic sources make. It's still mentioned in the article under "Majestic 12" as " 1682:

Since when are references considered bilge? Please stop this characterization of my post. It is a personal attack. See:

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The main thing is consistency; I don't have a super-strong preference but for book-heavy referencing harv works well.

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videos are not reliable. Why are they not reliable? Are the authors liars? Did they make up all the interviews?

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All but one I looked at is very clear about the material going back to its original shape after crumpling up.

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future, we may discover mainstream RSes on the Roswell Incident talking in-depth about the Haut affadivit.

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Richard Doty and other individuals presenting themselves as Air Force Intelligence Officers approached Moore

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doesn't matter that there isn't a shred of evidence to support the claim that a flying saucer crashed there.

1024:. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a 3405:

Nice try with that essay. But many people agree with me. They just aren't here currently. Thus the RFC. --

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But the fact that the foil returned to its shape after crumpling is a fact, not speculation on their part.

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is pertinent. Without pukka sources, A RfC would be a waste of time to the point it would be disruptive.

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The 2002 affidavit is also mentioned in the current (and stable for half a year) version of his article:

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room-temperature crumpling/uncrumpling without creases ability does not exist even now as far as we know.

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https://archive.org/details/isbn_9781573928946/page/24/mode/1up?view=theater&q=%22Frank+Joyce%22%22

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Could you link to the old version you mentioned above? I'll look through the references later tonight,

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https://www.sunrisepage.com/roswell/pdf/Summary_of_Witnesses_Claims_for_a_Shape_Memory_Roswell_Foil.pdf

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As far as I know there was no such foil in existence at the time. At least not created by humans. :)

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on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, you can edit the attached article, help with

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But let's say Haut really did see bodies: what does mentioning that really add to the readers of

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Talk:Roswell incident/Archive 8#Walter Haut affidavits signed in 1993 and 2002. Video made in 2000

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addressing the Roswell/Battelle/NiTinol tendril of the lore, but thus far haven't found one.

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Had it been a weather or a Mogul balloon, however, there would have been electronic components

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Where in the article does it say that they personally saw a craft? And why the small font? --

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You have no "rights" to anything on Knowledge (XXG). And posting crap about "memory foil" is

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This article still has an inconsistent citation format. That is a bar to it becoming GA.

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head-spinning mix of true believers, hoaxers, and charlatans attached to the name Roswell

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Reporting on the incident ceased soon after the government provided a mundane explanation

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The Roswell Legacy: The Untold Story of the First Military Officer at the 1947 Crash Site

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contributed significantly to (or nominated) this article may review it according to the

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The memory foil is not mentioned at all in this Knowledge (XXG) article. Just like the

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After some thought, I think this RFC should happen before the other one I suggested.

2062:

Maybe the article title is wrong, which causes the word "incident" to get overloaded?

1847:

Most of the references are books. 1980 is the earliest year in the reference glossary:

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trifle. The point of the review is to improve the article, not earn a gold star.

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What is this bilge? Please stop posting this stuff here as it is getting disruptive.

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Reliable sources are listed on the bottom of the 37 witnesses PDF. Here is one more:

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Note: this is from "Rendlesham" by David Clarke, not the essay cited in the article.

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Louisiana Highway Department, the Army Corps of Engineers, and the Shell Oil Company

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perspective, you'll go crazy (and I would go crazy too if I edited that way! lol)

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As far as I know there has never been an RFC for this topic in this article. --

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The article is completely slanted to it being the Roswell "myth" and "legend".

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avoid using "incident" to describe things in favor of more specific language

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This article has been viewed enough times in a single week to appear in the

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But somehow not from their book "Witness to Roswell" with the affidavit. --

752:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of topics relating to the 427:

when adding content and consider tagging or removing unsourced information.

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section cites Schmitt's book and its narratives, but is clearly doubtful.

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No windows, portholes, wings, tail section, or landing gear were visible.

3424:, so numbers don't matter. We have consensus and it's time to drop this. 3673:(tells Patty Butler Spiers that Brazel and Haut called him back to back) 3051:

folklore in order to deflect attention from classified military projects

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https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Walter_Haut&oldid=1205816459

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Talk:Walter Haut#Affidavits signed in 1993 and 2002. Video made in 2000

909: 589: 1414:... could not make a dent in it or deform it in any way". Page 55: " 3611:

Joyce says that his radio station reported a crashed flying saucer

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Much more detail on the memory foil witnesses, and more references:

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disc being reported before the Haut press release, but there was

615:, which aims to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to the 2846:

Yes. We have a list of "Sources" and some source aren't in it.

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Roswell author who said he handled UFO crash debris dies at 76

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do the same. Are you really sure this counts as "unclear"?

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disruption which is damaging. You have been warned this is a

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Joyce, so any sources citing Pflock are still citing Joyce.

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Thanks! I've upgraded to B. It's probably a Good Article,

3661:(tells Pflock that he called Wilcox while Brazel was there) 3655:

I've found several versions of Joyce's explanation so far:

443:

A fact from this article was featured on Knowledge (XXG)'s

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Possible request for comment on 2002 Walter Haut affidavit

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http://roswellproof.homestead.com/debris2_memory_foil.html

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http://roswellproof.homestead.com/debris2_memory_foil.html

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A family history written by the family would be not be an

75:

Short description: UFO legend caused by 1947 balloon crash

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2007 review of the book, affidavit, and video of Haut by

3170:

perspective and just try to make Knowledge (XXG) reflect

3667:(tells Friedman that Brazel called him well before Haut) 3505:

Lighting was poor, but its surface did appear metallic.

1482:. By Associated Press in Helena, 28 Aug 2013. "Over the 1404:

what he and his father experienced with the memory foil.

3212:

The current version of the article has references from

3133: 3023: 2671: 2630: 1941: 1828:. This is the better table of witnesses and references: 127: 108: 63: 3665:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAsD4UpzVvo&t=157s

3371:.. more or less consistent with the new affidavit." -- 1499:

https://weedwiki.fandom.com/User:Timeshifter/Sandbox40

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXwCn015Bh4&t=57s

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Field, but not before the local press heard about it.

3292:. It does not allow the reader to have this info. -- 2646:

Something I liked about the old version (drafted by

1066:

This article has been checked against the following

908:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of 3948:

North American military history task force articles

3641:imagine a radio announcer in Roswell repeating it. 2123:

Reliable sources avoiding "incident" in their voice

1151: 1065: 308: 3958:United States military history task force articles 2107:Thanks for bringing this up. I looked through the 1851:http://roswellproof.homestead.com/debris_main.html 1646:http://roswellproof.homestead.com/debris_main.html 1425:That book is currently referenced 10 times in the 1381:6 Things Witnesses Said About the Roswell Incident 1339:it did not need to be heated to return to it shape 631:, where you can join the project and discussions. 31:is currently a Culture, sociology and psychology 3943:B-Class North American military history articles 3888:B-Class United States articles of Mid-importance 2606:was identified as coming from a weather balloon. 1935:(or variation thereof). It mentions this around 1641:The reference abbreviations are explained here: 1434:Marcel, Jesse; Marcel, Linda (January 1, 2008). 1406:"when he bent or folded a piece of the foil, it 167:for general discussion of the article's subject. 3953:B-Class United States military history articles 2728:But hasn't this article been nominated for GA? 3047:conspiracy by the U.S. military to fabricate 2114:My main takeaway was that the article should 2021: 2012: 1249:37 witnesses to the Roswell shape memory foil 8: 3552:We do, though: Barnett, Ragsdale, Truelove. 3487:article names no witnesses that saw a craft. 3369:Walter said he had seen a body and wreckage. 3259:say their work is influential, not accurate 3096:discussing the matter with any other parties 1038:Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject Military history 3550:article names no witnesses that saw a craft 3516:in the article. Thus no need for an RFC. -- 1853:- scroll down a bit for the reference list. 1467:many more articles about Jesse Marcel, Jr.. 3853:Pages in the Knowledge (XXG) Top 25 Report 1194:North American military history task force 1148: 1062: 971: 870: 692: 570: 87: 83: 3514:good reason to include the 2002 affidavit 2934:if the "trifle" of a GA sticker is needed 1350:I'm still looking, and will keep looking. 1210:United States military history task force 793:Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject United States 57:to decide whether or not to list it as a 3355:along with a 2007 article about it from 3253:The Truth About the UFO Crash at Roswell 2812:The issue is the inline CS1 <ref: --> 2766:and the very first article I clicked on 2153: 1735:I think we need a request for comments: 1486:and travelled the world lecturing about 1018:This article is within the scope of the 2043:Surely the "incident" was what happened 1842:"Memory/ unfolds/ no crease, no dents". 1345:The memory foil is not mentioned at all 1256:References are at the end of the page: 973: 872: 694: 572: 542: 3549: 3160: 3054: 3046: 2933: 2770:had both a Ref and Sources section. 2604: 2590: 2579: 2568: 2558: 2547: 2533: 2522: 2511: 2501: 2490: 2479: 2469: 2458: 2448: 2438: 2148: 2143: 2138: 2133: 2128: 2042: 1856:"The Roswell Incident" is a 1980 book. 1780: 1530: 1353: 1344: 1338: 1028:. To use this banner, please see the 934:Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject Skepticism 637:Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject Paranormal 609:This article falls under the scope of 3938:Military aviation task force articles 3883:Mid-importance United States articles 3773:Good article nominees awaiting review 3638:another really big wire service story 1840:(until I got tired) for this column: 1041:Template:WikiProject Military history 67:and save the page. (See here for the 61:. To start the review process, click 7: 3788:Knowledge (XXG) controversial topics 1420:could find no electronic components. 1317:Walter Haut notarized 2002 affidavit 902:This article is within the scope of 746:This article is within the scope of 3918:High-importance Skepticism articles 3161:I think it is a smear on his legacy 2149:For believers, the Roswell Incident 1836:I went through half of the list of 1453:from the original on April 21, 2023 561:It is of interest to the following 524:. 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By Beth Braden. 1125: 1114: 1103: 1092: 1081: 1011: 975: 895: 874: 838: 733: 723: 696: 602: 588: 574: 543: 513: 436: 393: 363: 179:Click here to start a new topic. 19: 3923:WikiProject Skepticism articles 3903:WikiProject New Mexico articles 3873:WikiProject Paranormal articles 954:This article has been rated as 937:Template:WikiProject Skepticism 813:This article has been rated as 657:This article has been rated as 640:Template:WikiProject Paranormal 417:Content must be written from a 401:The subject of this article is 45:) at 03:24, 10 March 2024 (UTC) 3878:B-Class United States articles 3868:Past paranormal collaborations 3753:21:01, 14 September 2024 (UTC) 3734:20:47, 14 September 2024 (UTC) 2953:Read the previous discussion. 2220:Harding, & Stewart (2003) 2159:call it the Roswell Incident? 1942:current version of the article 1933:super-strong lightweight metal 1: 3741:been in the queue since March 3695:skepticism to Brazel's story. 3491:let's start with Walter Haut: 3041:Thanks for posting about it, 2465:Harding, & Stewart (2003) 2292:Levy & Mendlesohn (2019) 1603:So report it in this article. 928:and see a list of open tasks. 851:This article is supported by 176:Put new text under old text. 3968:Cold War task force articles 3783:Former good article nominees 3778:Old requests for peer review 2694:Inconsistent citation format 2507:Levy & Mendlesohn (2019) 1178:Military aviation task force 1021:Military history WikiProject 3913:B-Class Skepticism articles 3893:B-Class New Mexico articles 3858:B-Class paranormal articles 3344:being in the 2007 book the 2916:This was already discussed. 2139:supposed "Roswell Incident" 1924:does not have this type of 1488:his experiences in Roswell. 411:When updating the article, 3984: 3024:I concur with this removal 2764:Category:Featured_articles 2144:so-called Roswell Incident 1086:Referencing and citation: 960:project's importance scale 819:project's importance scale 663:project's importance scale 3963:B-Class Cold War articles 3709:07:01, 21 July 2024 (UTC) 3690:06:32, 21 July 2024 (UTC) 3651:05:12, 21 July 2024 (UTC) 3627:18:18, 20 July 2024 (UTC) 3593:07:13, 22 July 2024 (UTC) 3579:19:15, 21 July 2024 (UTC) 3562:08:40, 21 July 2024 (UTC) 3544:08:27, 21 July 2024 (UTC) 3528:08:23, 21 July 2024 (UTC) 3497:not quite as wide, about 3474:19:15, 21 July 2024 (UTC) 3457:08:31, 21 July 2024 (UTC) 3434:08:15, 21 July 2024 (UTC) 3417:07:59, 21 July 2024 (UTC) 3401:07:53, 21 July 2024 (UTC) 3383:07:44, 21 July 2024 (UTC) 3339:06:30, 21 July 2024 (UTC) 3319:06:18, 21 July 2024 (UTC) 3304:05:35, 21 July 2024 (UTC) 3271:18:23, 20 July 2024 (UTC) 3246:12:10, 20 July 2024 (UTC) 3232:00:22, 20 July 2024 (UTC) 3192:14:14, 19 July 2024 (UTC) 3151:18:31, 13 July 2024 (UTC) 3069:02:52, 10 July 2024 (UTC) 2684:22:20, 10 July 2024 (UTC) 2666:18:25, 10 July 2024 (UTC) 2642:09:54, 10 July 2024 (UTC) 2624:06:23, 10 July 2024 (UTC) 2000:23:07, 19 July 2024 (UTC) 1905:11:18, 19 July 2024 (UTC) 1890:05:35, 19 July 2024 (UTC) 1821:01:38, 19 July 2024 (UTC) 1803:13:53, 18 July 2024 (UTC) 1776:17:35, 13 July 2024 (UTC) 1753:17:29, 13 July 2024 (UTC) 1719:17:11, 13 July 2024 (UTC) 1701:16:57, 13 July 2024 (UTC) 1678:16:54, 13 July 2024 (UTC) 1663:16:52, 13 July 2024 (UTC) 1622:18:01, 11 July 2024 (UTC) 1573:12:38, 11 July 2024 (UTC) 1549:17:44, 10 July 2024 (UTC) 1516:15:49, 10 July 2024 (UTC) 1410:when released ... took a 1288:16:50, 25 June 2024 (UTC) 1224: 1208: 1192: 1176: 1147: 1044:military history articles 1006: 953: 890: 834: 812: 749:WikiProject United States 718: 678: 656: 597: 569: 413:be bold, but not reckless 214:Be welcoming to newcomers 90: 86: 69:good article instructions 3512:I think this alone is a 3495:12 to 15 feet in length, 3489:I am sure there are. So 3485:I just noticed that the 3447:. And they'd be right. 3036:22:42, 9 July 2024 (UTC) 2984:16:35, 9 July 2024 (UTC) 2963:14:44, 9 July 2024 (UTC) 2949:14:40, 9 July 2024 (UTC) 2929:14:36, 9 July 2024 (UTC) 2912:14:33, 9 July 2024 (UTC) 2898:14:30, 9 July 2024 (UTC) 2883:14:27, 9 July 2024 (UTC) 2856:14:18, 9 July 2024 (UTC) 2842:14:14, 9 July 2024 (UTC) 2823:14:08, 9 July 2024 (UTC) 2808:14:02, 9 July 2024 (UTC) 2794:13:57, 9 July 2024 (UTC) 2780:13:45, 9 July 2024 (UTC) 2753:13:17, 9 July 2024 (UTC) 2738:12:59, 9 July 2024 (UTC) 2724:12:51, 9 July 2024 (UTC) 2708:12:17, 9 July 2024 (UTC) 2087:14:55, 9 July 2024 (UTC) 2072:12:58, 9 July 2024 (UTC) 2058:12:48, 9 July 2024 (UTC) 2037:12:10, 9 July 2024 (UTC) 2005:Systematic lack of sense 1367:11:44, 9 July 2024 (UTC) 1334:09:47, 9 July 2024 (UTC) 1304:09:13, 9 July 2024 (UTC) 754:United States of America 679:This article was a past 2111:cited in the article. 1981:same references you are 1152:Associated task forces: 1097:Coverage and accuracy: 3743:waiting for a review. 2813:s which are mixed in. 2025: 2016: 1948:This is also true for 1860:Leonard H. 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