1470:} Yes, another tracked directly to the building next door to Theranos's old lab! Found a new source (March 14) from Balwani's own lawyer who confirms he was born in Pakistan, but is from a Hindu family that moved to India for a while. That would explain the India connection and confusion. Hopefully our Knowledge article will help spread the correct information. He does seems to identify as a Pakistani given his choice of student association in Texas, unclear about his citizenship status is the next question. --
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1889:? This is the most complete source we have about Balwani's character and background. Other sources concur with it so we are not relying on just that source it comes from many interviews with people who worked closed with him for years, including employees from India. I don't know what the Balwani's legal defense says but we try not to rely on primary source documents like that. This article is a biography of Balwani not Holmes, she has her own article. --
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1702:, not on his own, he went with his family because that is where his family wanted to go. How he personally felt about it at the time we do not know because the sources do not say, all we can say is what the sources say. Everything else you say is pure speculation ("This shows that his patriotism is for India and not for Pakistan. His heart is with India and not Pakistan.") which is
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of
Pakistan and makes him Indian. For example, Yasir Qadhi's family was from Indian territory but they chose Pakistan before emigrating to the US. They are therefore considered Pakistani, not Indian. Sahir Ludhianvi chose Pakistan but then chose India again. His last choice is the only thing that matters and therefore, he is considered Indian.
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1621:.. He is of Hindu religion in reality, not heart. He identifies with the Pakistan nation ("patriotic Pakistani"), not India. This causes problems for Indian nationalists, who can't agree someone could be both Hindu and also a patriotic Pakistani. It's a threat to Indian nationalism which is based on Hindu identity. --
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While the
Confier platform seems to be full of spam (Duckduckgo "site:conifer.rhizome.org"), it seems like only specific links on webrecorder/confier are on the Google safe browsing list (like this one). Maybe due to the subject matter (I am not too familiar with the situation here) they were able to
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My intention here is to improve the neutrality of
Knowledge, before translating it. As I am aware neither on the sources nor on English subtilities, I don't wan't to edit this article directly. However I did work on it, translating parts of it in french. I have stoped translation because of said lack
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There was a quote posted here, which was essentially putting the default position as being "business associate", despite the fact there are several sources for the assertion that they were not, and I believe there is evidence they lived together. John
Carreyrou cites several sources from Theranos who
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There seems to some confusion between sources on whether
Balwani is from India or Pakistan. The current reference cites the book "Bad Blood", which looks like a good source, but the book itself cites LinkedIn for Balwani nationality, which probably isn't a good source. There seem like there are quite
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The external links section had a video of
Balwani as a guest speaker to the AZ State Senate in 2014 - the video was created by the AZ state government. It is important because it is the only known video of Balwani, that I am aware of. He is one of the most secretive people I have ever encountered on
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Look I didn't write this article, and like every other article on
Knowledge it needs work and improvement all the time. Why don't you find and read sources and work on the article? That SEC source is unnecessary, we have plenty of high quality secondary sources that can be used instead. You have not
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He should be considered as Indian because the way it works between India and
Pakistan is that if someone chooses between one or another, that is what their identity becomes even if they have not lived in either country for a long time. He chose India before emigrating. Therefore, that is a rejection
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Well pleased to say, John
Carreyrou promptly replied to the email query! He says Balwani is from Pakistan, went to boarding school in Lahore and then came to the US for his undergraduate studies. He enrolled at UT Austin and was a member of the Pakistani student group there. Carreyrou says he made a
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I'm not fluent in english but the third paragraph of SEC lawsuit seems assertive. If neutrality in WP en is that a sentence about the defense in an other section equals a whole section of accusations, then I bet we have other standards in WP fr... but maybe you now concur that there is a neutrality
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In the 'Criminal charges' section it says "Balwani's defense is that he never made any money while at
Theranos." In the 'SEC lawsuit' it says "alleged" and it appears the case is still being litigated by Balwani (Holmes settled out of court). Everyone in the US is innocent until proven guilty so it
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I'm pretty sure Carreyrou is the sole source of this error and the Indian press picked up on it and they are not known for doing much fact checking and anyway it sells more papers to continue calling him an Indian. Plus it will sell more of Carreyrou's book there, and the movie, so really no one is
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Strange! It's working for me also. Maybe the message I sent to Conifer brought it back. I do get a "deceptive warning" message from Firefox and Chrome, then need to click through the "are you sure". Conifer is on a Google list of deceptive sites. Probably because with Conifer they use Webrecorder
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When he got to the United States, he literally kissed the ground and studied at the University of Texas, where he got a degree in computer science. Everything he ever did in his life he got through earning it through incredibly hard work. He was the most hard working person pretty much I've ever
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We have reliable sources. The email is confirmation of why there are conflicting sources. And the email can be verified through the OTRS system if anyone wants, we can't just ignore an email from Carreyrou saying Balwani is from Pakistan and the British edition calling him Indian is in error. --
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applies to mainspace pages only, not talk space. Anything can be discussed on talk pages in determining source reliability. The words "common sense" are found throughout the policy documents. The author of the book on inquiry said what happened and why and corrected the mistake. The email helps
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The video in question is now deleted from the AZ State Senate website. In addition, the archive of the video has also been deleted. That's pretty unusual, it takes a lot to get an archive provider to delete an archive page. It doesn't happen by mistake, it was an intentional act by the archive
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In the external links is a video of Balwani presenting to the AZ State Senate in 2014. In the first two minutes he says "We have something we believe is magical." Presumably he didn't mean actually magic, or magical thinking? In retrospect the statement appears to be hauntingly accurate. --
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made any attempt to fix perceived problems through BRD. It seems like you simply disagree with the article, are not familiar with the sources, don't want to work on it, but engage in lengthy talk page discussions and want to tag it with banners. What is your intention here? --
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incentivized to fix this error. In fact he belonged to the Pakistan student association in university one can easily verify that, and I have an email from Carreyrou himself saying India was made in error. It will all come out in the legal proceedings soon enough. --
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mistake with India and quickly corrected it, but for some reason it did not correct in the British edition, only the American edition got it right. I can share this email in private with someone in authority (an admin or some other system) if there is any question.
1747:"(The precise nature of their relationship at this time will be a matter of speculation and opinion but we can only go by what reliable secondary sources say, see Bad Blood. Holmes herself may not be a reliable source as she is a known manipulator of truth."
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Disagree. I have checked the physical book and Google Books (books.google.in). The quote from the book goes as follows "Born and raise in Mumbai, Sunny first came to United States". Further proof in "Times of India" reference at the beginning of article.
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https://www.businessinsider.com/who-is-ramesh-sunny-balwani-elizabeth-holmes-ex-theranos-trial-2022-3#they-initially-became-friends-and-grew-romantically-involved-later-around-the-time-holmes-dropped-out-of-stanford-at-19-years-old-to-focus-on-theranos-12
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I happened to come across your contribs history and saw this. The link still works for me, but it looks like only the first 20/30 or so minutes actually saved. It would be good to download the video and save it offline in case it actually does go away.
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because there is so little online. This Knowledge article has been under constant attempts to delete and misdirect the basic facts, going back years, by a steady stream of IPs and SPAs, some geolocating to nearby (or actually in) the old Theranos HQ.
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In the next breath, you quote saying that "He was very patriotically Pakistani," and giving this as a quote from an unknown person. How can a "patriotic Pakistani" emigrate to India because he felt that it was difficult to live in Pakistan as a
1497:- Weirder and weirder. Can't imagine there are many Hindus going to boarding school in Lahore. Frankly, there seem to be so many shenanigans surrounding this guy, that I would want to double verify even the most basic biographical information.
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seem to have got the topic wrong, and unfortunately the sourcing in Bad Blood is poor. It would be nice if we could get better sourcing here. We could also potentially consider simply removing national identifier information, or adding a
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where the Yearbook is modified to say "India" even though the Yearbook is online and plainly says Pakistan. I wonder if it is going beyond a badly informed editor and entering the territory of disinformation (for whatever purpose). --
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We have a deposition in which Elizabeth Holmes ACTUALLY STATES they were having romantic (edited: sexual is not explicitly stated but implied) relations which could easily be ascertained with a bit of google searching.
1326:- Ok. Statnews looks like a good source verifying Balwani's membership in the Pakistani Student Association. I guess combined with the Carreyrou info we can discard the Indian sources as fake news. Thanks for reviewing.
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But you have no quote from him saying that he is a "patriotic Pakistani". It is an unknown person who you are quoting saying that his is "patriotic Pakistani". That does not make him a "patriotic Pakistani".
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Balwani had no training in the biological sciences or medical devices, which became an issue due to the company's failure to have medical experts on the board of directors and Balwani's reported behavior.
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and should be removed at first sight. Please do not use court documents or other public records that may contain personal and private information as these are not allowed under any circumstances. See
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Also note that you have given a reference of the University of Austin Yearbook to say he was a member of the Pakistani Students Association. I checked the link and there is no such statement there.
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and search box on 'Pakistan'. It's likely the IPs will continue to revert and battle on this, maybe the article will get locked down, but I'm leaving a message as a place for any discussion. --
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provider. I have reached out to them to restore, explain or provide a backup copy. Someone(s) are clearly trying to distort the facts on this page, and delete the history of Balwani online. --
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He was a member of the Pakistani student association in Texas - he choose Pakistan after he immigrated, not India. It's a complex situation. The best we can do it tell readers his history. --
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Also basic biographical facts establishing who the person is, like name, DOB, gender and nationality will be part of the legal record. How much of that is made public and when, who knows. --
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I'm guessing he is more secular and focused on being successful. About 1.6% of Pakistan is Hindu, but that number used to be higher so they are definitely around. The Lahore boarding school
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I'm not sure Balwani's nationality will be the topic of the legal proceedings. An e-mail is not a reliable source. It would be nice if we had some reference for the Lahore boarding school.
568:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Crime and Criminal Biography articles on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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1774:(1:41 - 1:54 is Elizabeth Holmes admitting it, 1:55 - 1:57 is Balwani himself admitting it, 2:01 is her admitting she did not tell investors, 2:03 - 2:05 is Balwani admitting the same)
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I'm not sure why this page needs to have the birth country listed of Elizabeth Holmes former lover and colleague? He obviously identifies as Indian and talks to his history in India.
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It's curious that the IP who keeps changing it to "India" is so long-term determined, and follows a similar pattern of modifying the text in a way that is plainly false, as in this
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About his behaviour, I don't know America but I think that he was not just " overbearing, uncompromising, demanding" as he was able to seduce the boss despite being twice her age.
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If he was a "patriotic Pakistani", he would not have migrated to India. This shows that his patriotism is for India and not for Pakistan. His heart is with India and not Pakistan.
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He was born in Pakistan to a Hindu family, and eventually the family had to move to India because being a Hindu in a mostly all-Muslim country of Pakistan was very difficult.
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On the one had, you cherry picked a quote that he emigrated from Pakistan to India "because being a Hindu in a mostly all-Muslim country of Pakistan was very difficult".
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India (incorrect) . Attempts to ] ignored. Inline comments ignored (). Place of birth in Pakistan verified by an administrator in talk. ]] 18:17, 23 December 2018 (UTC)
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1251:(US edition) are not the only line of evidence to say he is Pakistani. There is an earlier source saying he attended the Pakistani Student Association in college. --
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Any source that claims otherwise ie. that he was born in India, would need to be more credible than Jeff Coopersmith, who is Balwani's personal attorney. --
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Why is his inexperience a bigger issue than the inexperience of Holmes or the other directors? What is the relation of said inexerience with his behaviour?
42:) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or
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book. There are some great details in that book, and I don't doubt the book's reliability, but not every minute verifiable detail belongs in an article.
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I've been invited by Knowledge to translate this article in french (don't ask me why), but the more I progress, the more I'm under the impression that
1682:, not the PDF. Do you see page 317 in the yearbook? There are page numbers printed on the yearbook. He is quoted as being a patriotic Pakistani in the
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Verified. Here's the quote from the book: "Born and raised in Pakistan, Sunny first came to the United States in 1986 for his undergraduate studies." —
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He couldn't scrub the Arizona State Government website which has a lengthy video of him giving a presentation, it could easily be screen captured. --
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1706:(Original Research). If there are other sources that contradict these sources we can discuss. You need to stick to what the reliable sources say. --
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as it shows in three places inside the book Pakistan, including two footnotes with further sources where the Pakistan information was obtained. --
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contains a picture of Balwani on page 320 in a group photo of the Pakistani Students Association. 2nd row, last on right with striped shirt. --
1107:- After reading the thread above, and reading into the subject a bit more deeply, it seems likely Balwani is from Pakistan. Problem is, both the
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I removed some content that appeared to add an excessive level of detail, mostly reflecting negatively on Balwani and mostly sourced to the
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all said they were in a relationship. He does not specifically state the date they started dating, but, I just want to point something out.
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This is one of the four complaints/charges in the SEC document made against Balwani (pg.16 17.e.). It's not an assertion by Knowledge.
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goes without saying he is innocent and pleads innocent (again "alleged"). Has he stated his position, other than implied not guilty? --
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952:" (it's towards the end of the given snippet can't link directly). The American edition sources it to Balwani's LinkedIn page. The
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of representation of the defense (as I felt free to edit the style and separate the sections, theese were not much of a concern).
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1766:"Balwani and Holmes confirmed their relationship in deposition tapes reported by ABC News in January 2019." (Includes link)
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I am unable to access a search inside for this edition of the book on books.google.co.in so can not verify it. Please see
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I opened the ebook of that title ("view ebook" link on left) and again saw the "Born and raised in Pakistan" paragraph. (
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He has clearly scrubbed himself on the internet, and that will no longer be possible given his very public corruption.
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A number of IPs keep changing the article to say he was born in India. However I have confirmed that in Chapter 6 of
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1694:. This is a completely different statement then what you claim it says. It concerns what a friend said about him
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a few RS originating from India that claim Balwani is Indian. Does anyone has a definitive source on this topic?
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https://www.businessinsider.com/theranos-former-president-sunny-balwani-role-in-the-company-2018-5?r=US&IR=T
734:'''Pending changes:''' Long-term IP disruption using VPN to change place of birth from Pakistan (correct) -: -->
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he was in college. Not now. Not before. At the time he was in college. Do you understand? He migrated to India
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Please provide proper reference showing where it says he was a member of the Pakistani Students Association.
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he is reported to have been born in Pakistan. This can be easily verified by going to books.google.com, find
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Looks like the Indians are trying to push him back and show him as a Pakistani because of his criminal case.
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articles on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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Funnily enough, one of those IP's tracks to Santa Clara. Maybe someone at Theranos fiddling with things?
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Although we don't normally need to verify what a reliable source says, in this case it is possible. The
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1282:" - Oh great. Well if there's another source, all of this is a moot point. Where's that other source?
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I guess you would have to quote specific sentences or words and explain why they are not neutral. --
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is not respected. As I'm not native speeker I may be wrong, but I'd still like your opinion on this.
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https://abcnews.go.com/Business/theranos-remarkable-blood-test-claims-began-unravel/story?id=61173853
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I agree, I've only seen two photos of him online, it's amazing Balwani scrubbed all of his images.
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Yeah. Saw that. I think it was important to verify just b/c there was confusion among the sources.
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The mixup between his career and lawsuits / presumed frauds seems (to me) tainting his whole work.
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I removed the section that was sourced entirely to legal documents. This is a clear violation of
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1435:- I'm guessing it's simple misinformation. If it keeps happening, we should work to get a block.
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regarding the use of "fraudster", with a mention of this article. All are invited to comment.
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No I haven't read this book. In the SEC section we heavily rely on primary sources namely:
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There is an earlier source saying he attended the Pakistani Student Association in college.
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944:. Wheres the American edition says "Ed had gleaned some basic facts about him: he was
782:: Please provide the exact URL for the Google Books and/or the book's ISBN number. --
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get this specific link marked as malware so people wouldn't click on it. Who knows.
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I suggest adding a POV banner to attract other contibutor. Would it be OK for you?
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etc.." the Indian edition says "Ed had gleaned some basic facts about him: he was
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Obviously there's some legal record. The question is whether the legal record is
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list. My main browser has Google Safe Browsing disabled so I didn't even notice.
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For example in the section SEC Lawsuit, the defense of Balwani does not appear.
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Why dont you guys own up and accept that he is a Hindu and an Indian at heart?
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I think you should remove this phrase that he was a "patriotic Pakistani".
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page is offline and not in any archives. I am going to email the author of
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https://www.sec.gov/litigation/complaints/2018/comp-pr2018-41-balwani.pdf
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View Ebook goes to a different edition ISBN 9781524731663 ... would need
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The WARC is saved. It's on acre:~/Downloads (as a reminder to myself).
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determine which sources are reliable. And the email from Carreyrou and
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technology which has such high fidelity they also capture malware. --
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as quoted by a friend who knew him at the time. It does not say
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published by Pan Macmillan, May 31, 2018 ISBN 9781509868094 --
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from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially
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I'm pretty sure citing an e-mail from someone would count as
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Knowledge requested photographs of scientists and academics
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This has flipped back and forth over the years. Based on
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Looks like the editors have a bias against Pakistan here.
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Low-importance biography (science and academia) articles
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still calls Balwani Indian. Should that be corrected?
305:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
1242:The email doesn't need to be cited in the article.
578:Knowledge:WikiProject Crime and Criminal Biography
2494:WikiProject Crime and Criminal Biography articles
2404:C-Class biography (science and academia) articles
1738:Romantic relationship is confirmed by depositions
581:Template:WikiProject Crime and Criminal Biography
2176:Knowledge. This 2018 news article calls him a
427:and that biomedical information in any article
2474:Knowledge requested images of medical subjects
1678:It's right there in the yearbook on page 317,
2356:"Later they immigrated to the United States."
425:Manual of Style for medicine-related articles
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2439:Low-importance WikiProject Business articles
2464:Low-importance hematology-oncology articles
2115:"Sunny Balwani is an extraordinary person.
1772:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PvznWSEKoEE
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1961:I'm sorry I don't know what BRD means...
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2469:Hematology-oncology task force articles
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2274:Yes, it seems to be on the infamous
1619:he is a Hindu and an Indian at heart
562:This article is within the scope of
417:This article is within the scope of
299:This article is within the scope of
158:This article is within the scope of
2394:Biography articles of living people
2301:This article gives his birth date.
1299:. See that part of the article. --
1023:Appreciate you checking on that :)
434:Knowledge talk:WikiProject Medicine
209:the science and academia work group
91:It is of interest to the following
2171:AZ State Senate video gone missing
1051:Pakistani birth/Indian nationality
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828:and ISBN is 978-1-5098-6809-4
727:The below protection request (
443:Knowledge:WikiProject Medicine
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2066:for the relevant discussion.
1787:22:04, 14 February 2019 (UTC)
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1005:20:36, 28 December 2018 (UTC)
976:14:48, 28 December 2018 (UTC)
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754:18:33, 23 December 2018 (UTC)
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704:14:13, 14 December 2018 (UTC)
670:14:16, 14 December 2018 (UTC)
621:Let's Get A Photo Of This Guy
572:and see a list of open tasks.
485:This article is supported by
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1377:20:36, 3 February 2019 (UTC)
1363:00:22, 3 February 2019 (UTC)
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1238:16:51, 30 January 2019 (UTC)
1213:15:59, 30 January 2019 (UTC)
1193:15:51, 30 January 2019 (UTC)
1172:15:43, 30 January 2019 (UTC)
1158:15:34, 30 January 2019 (UTC)
1133:14:55, 30 January 2019 (UTC)
1119:As a side note, Carreyrou's
1095:14:27, 30 January 2019 (UTC)
575:Crime and Criminal Biography
542:Crime and Criminal Biography
170:contribute to the discussion
2109:quote from Jeff Coopersmith
1688:he is a patriotic Pakistani
1280:There is an earlier source
47:must be removed immediately
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2153:
2148:
2134:
2127:
2123:
2116:
2106:
2082:
2057:
2031:
2024:
1993:
1986:
1951:
1944:
1899:
1892:
1884:
1831:
1824:
1805:
1798:
1795:
1777:
1755:
1741:
1716:
1709:
1699:
1695:
1691:
1687:
1683:
1679:
1631:
1624:
1581:
1574:
1551:— Preceding
1547:
1529:
1522:
1480:
1473:
1417:
1410:
1401:
1357:
1350:
1343:
1309:
1302:
1279:
1261:
1254:
1248:
1207:
1200:
1187:
1180:
1152:
1145:
1083:
1066:73.75.142.52
1060:— Preceding
1054:
1018:
1011:
999:
992:
970:
963:
957:
949:
945:
928:
921:
899:
868:
861:
819:
812:
792:
785:
748:
741:
737:
726:
710:
698:
691:
685:
681:
679:
664:
657:
630:— Preceding
627:
624:
599:
563:
514:
510:
486:
464:
432:
418:
340:
300:
235:
231:
207:
159:
93:WikiProjects
58:
46:
39:
33:
2362:this source
1917:WP:BLPCRIME
1696:at the time
2388:Categories
2107:This is a
1792:Neutrality
1690:, it says
1226:verifiable
515:photograph
236:photograph
2083:Bad Blood
1921:WP:BLPCOI
1886:Bad Blood
1806:Cheers --
1249:Bad Blood
1121:WSJ piece
958:Bad Blood
946:Pakistani
686:Bad Blood
682:Bad Blood
179:Biography
112:Biography
51:libellous
2310:unsigned
1553:unsigned
1062:unsigned
954:LinkedIn
916:this one
644:contribs
632:unsigned
440:Medicine
368:Medicine
316:Business
307:business
263:Business
2338:Bdushaw
2145:Magical
2068:Zaereth
1801:WP:NPOV
1404:example
896:snippet
602:on the
467:on the
343:on the
83:C-class
2284:Rlink2
2270:GreenC
2215:Rlink2
2208:GreenC
2004:issue?
1598:Hindu?
1519:. --
1499:NickCT
1493:GreenC
1466:NickCT
1451:NickCT
1437:NickCT
1431:GreenC
1369:NickCT
1328:NickCT
1322:GreenC
1284:NickCT
1278:- re "
1274:GreenC
1230:NickCT
1164:NickCT
1125:NickCT
1105:Sumodm
1101:C.Fred
1087:NickCT
1025:Sumodm
985:C.Fred
950:Indian
901:C.Fred
830:Sumodm
780:Sumodm
772:sumodm
762:Sumodm
712:C.Fred
89:scale.
2368:Green
2252:Green
2232:Green
2189:Green
2154:Green
2128:Green
2120:met."
2092:bleep
2025:Green
1987:Green
1945:Green
1893:Green
1825:Green
1710:Green
1704:WP:OR
1625:Green
1575:Green
1523:Green
1474:Green
1411:Green
1351:Green
1342:1988
1303:Green
1255:Green
1244:WP:OR
1219:WP:OR
1201:Green
1181:Green
1146:Green
1116:note.
1012:Green
993:Green
964:Green
922:Green
862:Green
813:Green
786:Green
742:Green
692:Green
658:Green
519:added
511:image
240:added
232:image
2342:talk
2318:talk
2288:talk
2219:talk
2072:talk
2013:talk
1974:talk
1932:talk
1919:and
1867:talk
1812:talk
1796:Hi,
1783:talk
1670:talk
1653:talk
1610:talk
1561:talk
1503:talk
1455:talk
1441:talk
1373:talk
1332:talk
1288:talk
1234:talk
1168:talk
1129:talk
1111:and
1091:talk
1070:talk
1029:talk
942:here
906:talk
856:this
834:talk
766:talk
729:link
717:talk
640:talk
168:and
989:--
898:) —
738:--
594:Mid
517:be
513:or
459:Low
335:Low
238:be
234:or
40:BLP
2390::
2344:)
2320:)
2290:)
2221:)
2087:R2
2074:)
2015:)
2007:--
1976:)
1968:--
1934:)
1926:--
1869:)
1861:--
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1785:)
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95::
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38:(
20:)
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