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age of key fossils have meant that these questions remain poorly understood. Here we describe and compare a highly unusual femur from Late
Pleistocene sediments at Maludong (Yunnan), Southwest China, recovered along with cranial remains that exhibit a mixture of anatomically modern human and archaic traits. Our studies show that the Maludong femur has affinities to archaic hominins, especially Lower Pleistocene femora. However, the scarcity of later Middle and Late Pleistocene archaic remains in East Asia makes an assessment of systematically relevant character states difficult, warranting caution in assigning the specimen to a species at this time. The Maludong fossil probably samples an archaic population that survived until around 14,000 years ago in the biogeographically complex region of Southwest China.
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230Th/232Th activity in this contaminating phase (0.82±0.20). The remaining less-contaminated age determination has been corrected using this figure to provide an absolute age of 7.8±0.5 ka (UMB03650) for the flowstone... The flowstone must have formed after the skeleton was deposited, but its dating confirms the
Pleistocene-Holocene transition age based on radiocarbon dating of charcoal.
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985:. For example, compare "To make a convincing case for their new human, the study team will need genetic evidence" with "Genetic evidence is required to make a convincing case for a new species of human", or "Attempts to obtain DNA from the Red Deer Cave remains haven't been successful" with "Attempts to extract DNA from the Red Deer Cave remains have been unsuccessful".
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Maludong=Red Deer Cave, but is the latest discovery of Red Deer Cave people? As I read it, no. The original discovery was of cranial remains, exhibiting a mixture of archaic and modern traits, as stated above. The femur, though mixed with the crania, is described as a more archaic "Madulong hominim".
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The sources are not as clear as they might be, but if they are found in the same cave, one would assume that they are part of the same assemblage. Hopefully we can find some clarification. For my part, I hope that we will see side-by-side comparisons of teeth from
Maludong, Flores, Denisova, Sima de
1981:
Genomic DNA results on the specimen have now been published: poor recovery, but what they got showed the specimen to be modern human with low levels of
Neanderthal and Denisovan admixture similar to what is seen in modern Asians. Notably, it is related to the East Asian (non-Siberian) component of
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The number of Late
Pleistocene hominin species and the timing of their extinction are issues receiving renewed attention following genomic evidence for interbreeding between the ancestors of some living humans and archaic taxa. Yet, major gaps in the fossil record and uncertainties surrounding the
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I do not think you can say that the "Possible signatures" paper does not give any clues about direct dating. The paper cites 67 refs, and the dating is presumably in one of them. On a brief check, the two points which seem to me clear is that Curnoe no longer thinks that LL1 is Red Deer Cave, and
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Three U-Th age determinations were attempted on ∼25 mg sub-samples of the flowstone attached to the LL 1 vault... Two of these were too contaminated with detrital Th from cave sediments to allow calculation of useable age estimates, but were able to be used to derive a robust estimate of initial
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As in "youngest known prehistoric population who do not resemble modern humans". The intent of that phrase is difficult to understand. Are they most recent? Did they die at a young age? It's just not clear as the lede should be. I see in the video that Curnoe is saying "young". I vote for "most
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Richard D. Fuerle is not an acceptable source for this article. "The author is a retired patent attorney who lives on a small wildlife refuge on an island in upstate of New York. A perpetual student, he has degrees in math (BS), law (JD), economics (MA), physics (BA), and chemistry (BA)."
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Curnoe, Darren; Xueping, Ji; Herries, Andy I. R.; Kanning, Bai; Taçon, Paul S. C.; Zhende, Bao; Fink, David; Yunsheng, Zhu; Hellstrom, John; Yun, Luo; Cassis, Gerasimos; Bing, Su; Wroe, Stephen; Shi, Hong; Parr, William C. H.; Shengmin, Huang; Rogers, Natalie (14 March 2012).
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Curnoe, Darren; Xueping, Ji; Herries, Andy I. R.; Kanning, Bai; Taçon, Paul S. C.; Zhende, Bao; Fink, David; Yunsheng, Zhu; Hellstrom, John; Yun, Luo; Cassis, Gerasimos; Bing, Su; Wroe, Stephen; Shi, Hong; Parr, William C. H.; Shengmin, Huang; Rogers, Natalie (14 March 2012).
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Rogers, Natalie; Shengmin, Huang; Parr, William C. H.; Shi, Hong; Wroe, Stephen; Bing, Su; Cassis, Gerasimos; Yun, Luo; Hellstrom, John; Yunsheng, Zhu; Fink, David; Zhende, Bao; Taçon, Paul S. C.; Kanning, Bai; Herries, Andy I. R.; Xueping, Ji; Curnoe, Darren (14 March 2012).
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I got an email answer from Dr Curnoe. Based on this conversation and published papers, I feel that the
Maludong and the Longlin finds are definitely to be regarded separately. I recommend removing anything but tangential reference to Longlin for a couple of reasons:
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We're now treating it as part of a separate group, distinct from the bones from Red Deer Cave, or
Maludong, and one that we now think is indeed very likely to be a hybrid. And direct dating on human bone now confirms that the specimen is only 10,500 years
1509:
We're now treating it as part of a separate group, distinct from the bones from Red Deer Cave, or
Maludong, and one that we now think is indeed very likely to be a hybrid. And direct dating on human bone now confirms that the specimen is only 10,500 years
1982:
the ancestry of Native
Americans. This is going to require significant changes in focus regarding identity/classification - addition of the new results and toning down the emphasis currently given the other alternatives, and I am not up to that task.
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Referring to
Longlin vs Maludong, "Given their morphological similarity, close geographical proximity (<300 km apart) and young geological age (i.e., Pleistocene-Holocene transition), it seems likely that both samples belong to the same
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Dated the skull from Longlin. Discussed the Maludong find. Longlin (LL) is dated to 11,500 bp. Maludong (MLDG) direct dating was not possible due to lack of preserved collagen. Suggests that Maludong dated 17,830 - 13,290
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Yet Curnoe's references mostly speak of other finds that he is suggesting might be similar to the RDC finds. None of them (& I've read them) supply data on the dating of the bones themselves.
292:-related topics and create a standardized, informative, comprehensive and easy-to-use resource on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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Well spotted - it's far too easy to miss this sort of thing. Is my version better? (This has been on my watchlist almost since it was written but I haven't been following it closely).
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It's mysterious: They did not radio-carbon date any of the bones themselves, only the sediment that was deposited in the cranial cavity, presumably long as fossilization:
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The bones at Maludong have been burnt and it's not likely that direct dating on these will be possible. Work is continuing on dating the Maludong sediments with the
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Discusses morphology of MLDG, concludes that this is not AMH; looks like H erectus or H habilis. Speculates that it may be Denisovan. References Flores man.
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A couple of months ago we published a new study of the Longlin or Laomaocao Cave specimen, which we had also placed in the Red Deer Cave people in 2012.
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Yes, he is considering LL to be a separate population from that of MD. It's an interesting set of finds and I am curious to see what comes of them.
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Radiocarbon dating of charcoal from sediment removed from within the endocranial cavity of LL 1 provided an age of 11,510±255 cal. yr BP (OZM369).
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Recently, he suggested that LL and MLDG should be considered to be completely different populations. I'm not sure where this was mentioned.
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I was reverted without explanation when removing the taxobox. A second editor has removed the same. I hope that is the end of it.
1802:"Human Remains from the Pleistocene-Holocene Transition of Southwest China Suggest a Complex Evolutionary History for East Asians"
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that it is too early to amend the Wiki article as studies are coming at a fast rate and it is not yet clear where they are going.
1389:"Human Remains from the Pleistocene-Holocene Transition of Southwest China Suggest a Complex Evolutionary History for East Asians"
1171:"Human Remains from the Pleistocene-Holocene Transition of Southwest China Suggest a Complex Evolutionary History for East Asians"
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Human Remains from the Pleistocene-Holocene Transition of Southwest China Suggest a Complex Evolutionary History for East Asians
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The flowstone in the cave was also dated, but that only provides the most recent possible date for any activity in the cave.
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2. Longlin has been directly dated; furthermore it appears to be relatively modern, or archaic AMH, or possibly a hybrid.
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The temporal bony labyrinthine morphology of Homo Longlin 1 from the Pleistocene-Holocene transition of South China.
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Yeah, I guess my paraphrasing was a bit too close to the original. Thanks for following up and making corrections. ~
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related articles on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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3. The find at Maludong has the notability in that it does not appear to be AMH, and may be pre-Homo erectus.
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and extinct organisms. If you would like to participate, you can choose to edit this article, or visit the
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Based on that, at some point, I think this article will need to split into Longlin and Maludong sections.
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of the Longlin or Laomaocao Cave specimen, which we had also placed in the Red Deer Cave people in 2012.
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in Nigeria dating from about 16,000 - 11,700 years ago. John Hawks mentions another similar find from
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http://www.sci-news.com/othersciences/anthropology/bone-red-deer-cave-archaic-human-species-03523.html
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between
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https://curnoe.com/2015/12/20/bone-suggests-red-deer-cave-people-a-mysterious-species-of-human/
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1912:"Possible Signatures of Hominin Hybridization from the Early Holocene of Southwest China"
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or Laomaocao Cave specimen, which we had also placed in the Red Deer Cave people in 2012.
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Possible Signatures of Hominin Hybridization from the Early Holocene of Southwest China.
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A Hominin Femur with Archaic Affinities from the Late Pleistocene of Southwest China
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Curnoe says that his bones were "directly dated" but the proof has yet to be found.
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Well spotted. I missed this when it was added by an IP last month. I've removed it.
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I'm concerned some of the phrasing used by this article may be too close to that of
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http://johnhawks.net/weblog/fossils/china/upper/coppens-salkhit-mongolia-2008.html
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Yaozheng, Ge; Paul S. C. Taçon; Ji, Xueping; Curnoe, Darren (23 July 2015).
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Agreed, it is still early, since "Possible signatures" was pubbed in 2015.
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http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0143332
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1. "Maludong" means Red Deer Cave. Let's not confuse Longlin with this.
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in that it attempts to cover patterns, process and theory rather than
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This may be a similar dating problem to that which we see with the
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Knowledge level-5 vital articles in Biology and health sciences
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Chinese Sci. Bull. 59, 3517–3525 10.1360/N972014-00653 (2014).
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people discovered who do not appear similar to modern humans?
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Talks about Longlin morphology in comparison to other finds.
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Start-Class vital articles in Biology and health sciences
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It is not a named taxon, so it shouldn't have a taxobox.
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1746:"A couple of months ago we published a new study of the
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I went ahead and fixed it. Hope it's better that way.
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Template:Did you know nominations/Red Deer Cave people
67:. The nomination discussion and review may be seen at
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Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment
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Start-Class Palaeontology articles of Low-importance
1759:"We’re now treating it as part of a separate group,
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1614:Sci. Rep. 5, 12408; doi: 10.1038/srep12408 (2015).
1321:los Huesos, and classic H erectus and Neanderthal.
813:This article has not yet received a rating on the
697:, a project which is currently considered to be
1660:Here we go. Apologies. I had quoted it before:
1628:http://dx.doi.org/10.1371/journal.pone.0143332
1588:http://dx.doi.org/10.1371/journal.pone.0031918
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1598:Ji, X., Wu, X. J., Wu, Y. & Liu, W.
1039:recent" instead, if at all in the lede.
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63:A record of the entry may be seen at
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2089:Mid-importance Anthropology articles
1733:Here's something from Curnoe's blog:
773:This article is within the scope of
693:This article is within the scope of
460:This article is within the scope of
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1781:20:46, 30 September 2016 (UTC)
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715:Human Genetic History articles
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120:It is of interest to multiple
1:
2059:WikiProject Primates articles
1644:https://walkingontwofeet.net/
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1049:00:02, 19 December 2013 (UTC)
787:and see a list of open tasks.
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385:and see a list of open tasks.
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200:Template:WikiProject Primates
191:and see a list of open tasks.
2049:Start-Class Primate articles
1818:10.1371/journal.pone.0031918
1405:10.1371/journal.pone.0031918
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1301:17:43, 14 January 2016 (UTC)
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1187:10.1371/journal.pone.0031918
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793:Knowledge:WikiProject China
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1977:Genomic DNA results are in
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1586:Published: March 14, 2012
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597:WikiProject Tree of Life
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1610:Curnoe, D. et al.
1582:Curnoe, D. et al.
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122:WikiProjects
105:
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48:Did you know
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983:this source
601:systematics
477:Archaeology
468:Archaeology
440:Archaeology
112:Start-class
58:prehistoric
42:check views
2008:Categories
1787:References
1374:References
1251:Thigh bone
1156:References
1095:Dougweller
1002:Dougweller
987:Nikkimaria
875:Extinction
866:extinction
838:Extinction
1992:Agricolae
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1502:new study
1261:Abstract:
1135:Iwo Eleru
1034:Youngest?
951:Alexmkid3
110:is rated
79:Knowledge
32:Main Page
1963:FunkMonk
1933:12 April
1895:12 April
1890:phys.org
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1426:12 April
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1175:PLOS ONE
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674:inactive
605:taxonomy
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185:Primates
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1935:2019
1897:2019
1869:link
1862:help
1841:2019
1831:PMID
1777:talk
1721:talk
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1667:old.
1651:talk
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1526:talk
1456:link
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1200:PMID
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