Talk:Religious violence in India

6427: 3948: 6300: 4196: 4117: 2483:"Who was responsible for the wanton destruction of the original brick stupa of Asoka and when precisely the great work of reconstruction was carried out is not known, but it seems probable that the author of the former was Pushyamitra, the first of the Sunga kings (184–148 BCE), who was notorious for his hostility to Buddhism, and that the restoration was affected by Agnimitra or his immediate successor." in John Marshall, A Guide to Sanchi, p. 38. Calcutta: Superintendent, Government Printing (1918). 380: 1107: 1086: 733: 1838: 913: 892: 236: 1002: 981: 1220: 757: 1199: 1230: 1117: 3271:. Colonial-era history textbooks are obsolete: you should avoid using them as sources, wherever newer scholarly work is available. Several modern books cover the topic of Maratha-era atrocities: please use them as references instead. Quotes from British civil servants like V. A. Smith about the predecessors of the British have no place in Knowledge articles, unless referenced with commentary in a modern scholarly work. 1012: 1740: 1531: 824: 1510: 803: 1984: 1636: 1646: 1615: 781: 496: 5991:: "From the date of the opening the camp, viz., 10th October, the number of refugees began to increase rapidly and by the 14th of that month it rose above l,000 and the increase continued steadily until the highest figure — 1,523 — was reached on 1st December 1921. Without any remarkable decrease the number remained high till 14th January 1922 and it was only after that date it fell below 1,000." 641: 1541: 6382: 6243: 4152: 4073: 3890: 655: 5910:. p. 58. "It is impossible, in the absence of a census of the rebel area, to state the number of persons who were killed by the rebels, "but the number of persons among the civil population is believed to be between 500 and 600" according to the information given by Government. "No statistics have been compiled regarding the number of women and children among the persons killed." ( 617: 327: 1321: 1300: 549: 528: 371: 665: 1436: 1426: 1331: 1405: 272: 1797: 440: 413: 3068:" Apart from the prejudiced and exaggerated accounts to which Ferishta was accustomed It is unthinkable that in the presence of the three Muslim soverigns in a State governed by another Muslim, the Hindu soldiers and their ruler would have been permitted to lay their hands on mosques and chaste women and humiliate the Muslim population in the Deccan ". 5979:: "On 17th January 1922 it was decided by the working committee of the Congress that able-bodied refugees should not be granted relief gratuitously, but that they should work." "On 28th February relief was stopped to such of the refugees who did not work. Most of the refugees returned to their homes."; p. 103, 6468: 5739:

played a major role in the genesis and growth of these revolts. In this work, he mentioned two phases of the Rebellion — one was before the murder of Ali Musliyar and other was after his death. It was in the second phase that the rebellion turned in to a communal one, according to him. He pointed out

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Please don't strawman me. I was specificially objecting to your assertion that 'This page has never meant to be about Ancient-, medieval, or early-modern India. Its lead reflects that choice'. There are innumerable articles on pre and ancient history which are wiki gold standards in reliability and

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sometimes seems to be nothing more than ruffling the feathers of others. In any case, the expressions, "religious violence," "violence in the name of religion," "ethnic cleansing," "genocide," usually presuppose a modern sensibility. In the pre-modern worlds there was never need for dehumanization

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We can conclude that for much of his much of his narrative Firishta is extremely unreliable, even though his account may have a factual basis, because from his Deccani perspective (which was also that of many of his sources) Vijayanagara represented only 'the other', whose role was to fall victim to

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Maestro2016 it has been told to you already that whatever you are adding is not relevant to the article because those sources are nothing about religious violence. Maddison and Colin have not discussed religious violence. Sambhaji's armies had killed 20,000 people regardless of their religion, such

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The topic above "Top heavy with ancient, medieval, and early modern material" claims "This page has never meant to be about Ancient-, medieval, or early-modern India. ... In any case, the expressions, "religious violence," "violence in the name of religion," "ethnic cleansing," "genocide," usually

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estimates forced conversions as in the range of 200 and 2500. In the aftermath of this ethnic cleansing, the Suddhi Movement was created by the Arya Samaj. They converted over 2,000 Hindus who had been forcibly converted to Islam by the Mappilas. Sumit Sarkar in Modern India quotes an Arya Samaj

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This section needs more information since it contains some misleading information. Eg. there is no information about the number of Hindus killed, figures about population. Moreover this is full of story of debate. To have a consensus or best understanding of the subject number of different things

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He (D. N. Dhanagare) stresses the fact that it was only weeks after the uprisings that the first case of a forced conversion was reported. He is also of the opinion that the total number of conversions did not exceed 900. This was a very small number when compared with the large size of the Hindu

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shows the riots from 2012 without any justification of why 2012 was chosen. It does not represent the typical incidence rate in India. I recommend replacing it with an average of a few decades. Or make one image per decade. Those will be informative. This 2012 map conveys no information and is a

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helped the British government to capture the Mappillas. This caused rebels to turn against such sections. 10000–12000 people were killed and 10000 went missing; while the British government says 2337 rebels were killed and 1652 wounded. The Arya Samaj says around 600 Hindus were killed and 2500

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other reliable encyclopedias, for example, or internationally well-regarded undergraduate textbooks) mention the pre-modern material in the same proportion as presented here? In other words, you are correct in pointing out the error of my post in basing the argument in original intent, but the

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Joan-Pau Rubiés (2002), discussing this specific account of Firishta states (pp. 283-285): "It seems clear that Firishta was here setting the state for a considered discussion of why the holy war against the infidel should have been undertaken, and with such success. To begin with, there was a

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The article ignores Zoroastrianism mentions Judaism only in relation to the Portuguese Inquisition. Why make general statements about Zoroastrianism and Judaism but not mention Hinduism or Islam? I think that second sentence should be removed. Perhaps it could be replaced with something like:

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That is not what source reads, you are doing your own research here. It only says that Sambhaji was executed by a panel of ulema and also "his companion were hacked to death and the pieces thrown to the dogs". That has nothing to do with this article though. Why you are trying to put trivial

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This page has never meant to be about Ancient-, medieval, or early-modern India. Its lead reflects that choice. Yet the usual POV promoters have stuffed the page with pre-modern descriptions whose existence cannot be adequately verified, whose sources are old and unreliable, and whose

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Religious violence in India includes acts of violence by followers of one religious group against followers and institutions of another religious group, often in the form of rioting. Religions such as Zoroastrianism and Judaism have survived peacefully with Hindus for thousands of

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European Christians are harshly criticized for persecution of non-Christians in "early modern times" in the reconquest of Spain and Spanish America. Medieval Christians are harshly criticized for massacring heretics and Jews and Muslims. Why should India be exempt for criticism?

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happened should be involved. Otherwise the Knowledge article will not serve the purpose of education. To maintain the purpose of education, I have decided to add more information against what are said here. If anyone has objections please reply here. Let's make a consensus.

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Muslim women and shot Muslims which caused the death of lower caste Hindus also since some of such Hindus used to shave their head like Mappilas then. The British government burnt Muslim and Hindu houses. Almost all houses were looted or plundered. The Muslim

3584:" Colonial-era textbooks are a reflection of outdated historiographical models. Durant needs to be subject to interpretation and scrutiny by modern historians, therefore cite the modern historians who agree or disagree with his points, not Durant directly. 6461: 3053:

Agreed. The reference cited (R. C. Majumdar, p. 481) mentions this as a quote from Firishta, a court historian employed by the Deccan Sultanates. It is not appropriate to present Firishta's statements as historical facts without corroboration from modern

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Anti hindu attack: Kanhaiya Lal Teli was a Hindu tailor who was decapitated and murdered by two Muslim assailants on 28 June 2022 in Udaipur, in the Indian state of Rajasthan. The assiliants captured the attack on camera and circulated the video online

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source that claimed about 600 Hindus were killed and 2,500 forcibly converted during the rebellion. Variamkunnath Kunjahammad Haji claimed to have killed the alleged British agents and spies responsible for the forced conversion of Hindus to

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I am going to give you another chance kindly tell me which portion is copy-vio and I will paraphrase. If you don't take part in the discussion then that means you don't have a valid rationale for deleting them. Kindly elaborate your rationale.

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Straw man is two words not one, a noun not a transitive verb. When I take out the undue- and unreliable material, you may present the puff of gold standards that might have blown in through the cracks of ill-fitting sources. Best regards,

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I have only added views of reliable scholars. Dasas are clearly presented as a godless people by Rig Veda with a different way of life and religion, a reason whoch antagonized the Indo-Aryans and also used to call for their destruction.

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had increased by around one percent each decade from 1802 to 1911 while it increased by around two percent during the period 1911-1921 while around 60 percent of Muslims were concentrated in just three taluks (in Calicut taluk also the

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mostly inside quotation marks, it could not have constituted a copy-vio, I hope you know. Tell which portion outside of quote was a violation? If you don't I am going to restore that section and paraphrase what was outside the quotes.

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old set of edits by a POV vandal IP from 3 April, which apparently involved some rather blatant falsification of sources and referenced content. At least some of the vandalism (the complete reversal of the claim from the NYT source

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be merged into this page. There is no content there which is unique (or if it is, then there is no reason it should not be added here). It was created by a now-banned user, and is generally in poorer shape than this page is.

3504:, which advises against using older sources and advises to use recent scholarship. As I said above, if there are modern historians saying similar things to Durant, then cite those modern historians, not Durant himself. 3242:

massacres took place often in 1200s to 1800s, not all of them can be added here. Information on Durant is accurately attributed to him, and it is relevant because and he is not stating something that has been disputed.

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before or denial after such forms of violence. In the coming days, as and when I find time, I will be removing most of this material, and leaving a short history section in place. That is the scope of this article.

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Significantly, these statements don't deny there was religious violence, but say it cannot be judged by modern standards. Well, the same could be said about slavery, colonialism, inequality and other topics.

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In Delhi's Hauz Qazi , the clash over Parking row between a person of Hindu and Muslim community, led to an 100 year old Durga temple being attacked and vandalized by a group of people from Muslim Community.

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the infidels of Bijanagar who for many years had been wishing for such an opportunity, left no cruelty unpracticed. They insulted the honour of Musalman women, destroyed mosques and did not respect the sacred

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and Hindus in Thrissur unitedly conducted a victory procession. The victory procession was preceded by a march on 2 March 1921 by Ernad Mappilas in response to, the British loyalists' loyality procession in

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So because a kangaroo court sentenced him while committing atrocities themselves we should treat it as religious violence from Sambhaji and that you have to dedicate a particular section for him.. That's

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Maestro2016 you are not understanding or deliberately ignoring the type of information that is being provided, you also don't have a good understanding of the sources that you are using, stop creating a

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that were guilty of this crime were members of British reserve police and British intelligence department, and they joined our forces as patriots to do such filthy work only to discredit our soldiers.

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Several other authors have also described Firishta's claims as inaccurate. For example, see P. Sree Rama Sarma (1975): "Recounting the effects of allied advance into Ahmednagar Ferishta observed, "

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He (K. P. Kesava Menon) said that, in the early stages the rebels did not turn against the Hindus, but later, when the Hindus began to help the British authorities, it turned to be a fanatic one.

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incidents that have to do nothing with the religious violence? Durant is a respected and reliable source and still usable, you should be happy that he is attributed with his opinion if anything.

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Independent of John Marshall, I found no scholarly peer reviewed source reaching the same or similar conclusion as the caption (about Sanchi, vandalism, religious violence and Pusyamitra Sunga).

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Please feel free to propose the content you prefer to see. If you are asking for an advance "consensus" without even telling us what content you are talking about, it doesn't make sense. --

6192: 3384: 451:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Crime and Criminal Biography articles on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join 5983:: "This number continued with variations till December when gradually the refugees began to go back to their homes. It was by the end of April 1922 that all the refugees left."; p. 106, 6542:

pursued by the British colonial authorities" implies there was little religious violence in India before the Modern period. The lack of earlier material tacitly supports this belief.

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Religious violence in India, especially in recent times, has generally involved Hindus and Muslims, although incidents of violence have also involved Christians, Jews, and Sikhs.

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I've copied some of the content and omitted the parts which I think is irrelevant or already mentioned in detail here. There might be still content salvageable there, see it

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Contrary to opinions above, the page needs more pre-modern material to properly represent its title. Or its title should be changed to "Modern Religious Violence in India".

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were confined to the rebel areas while the Hindus were allowed to come out forcing Muslims to suffer poverty and hunger besides no access to relief work. The indiscriminate

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I am not particularly in favor of Durant here, I am just finding it uneasy that why it is being removed eventually, you can't really find someone who disagrees with Durant.

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Please write exactly what should be added. Other editors may of course use your sources to expand the article if they wish, but that is not how edit requests are used. --

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presuppose a modern sensibility. And in topic "Removal of medieval section" it claims "The term of 'religious violence' is quite inapplicable for premodern societies."

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The term of "religious violence" is quite inapplicable for premodern societies. I don't know how the sections on Ancient India and Medieval India came into existence.

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had higher growth rate than that of Hindus in the periods 1991-2001 and 2001-2011. It is said there is no demographic change to suggest forced conversions of Hindus.

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The other sections had no sources, Dharmadhyaksha a copyvio has to be removed immediately, you cannot cite what it is copied from as a source, it is still a copyvio.

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bias speaking there. As for Durant, if there are modern historians that reference him for something, then reference those modern historians, not Durant himself.

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The District Magistrate stated that reliable information had been received about 180 forced conversions of Hindus and the actual total may run into thousands.

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The article jumps from Ancient India to Colonial era. I'd like to have knowledge on what happened in between these eras since there's a gap of over 1500 yrs.

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I find no such support on page 38 or anywhere else in that 1918 book by John Marshall. (Therefore I have removed that alleged cite, and tagged cite requested)

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forcibly converted during the rebellion. Hindu refugees including upper section returned to their native regions after six or eight or one year after the

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Its often asserted in Knowledge and elsewhere that India, Hinduism and Buddhism are historically tolerant, unlike Christians, Muslims and Europeans. From

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https://en.wikipedia.org/Religious_violence_in_India#/media/File:2012_Riots_incidence_rates_per_100000_map_for_India,_its_States_and_Union_Territories.svg

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It was in the second stage of the Rebellion that the army and police started taking over the rebel areas and sought the help of Hindus to capture rebels,

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did write a lot of stuff, but it is taken with a large grain of salt by modern historians. For example, Eaton doesn't corroborate any of this. Pinging

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If other authors have different view, then their views should be represented as well. I have made it clear that these statements are of the scholars.

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The Maratha raids and plunders in Bengal, while atrocious and devastating, do not constitute religious violence. Request deletion of this section.

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Though Will Durant is really not making a claim that "is uninteresting to scholars" or "is it weighty enough to include in the encyclopaedia" per

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forced conversions took place weeks after the rebellion started only, after British forces began to come, which was after the two incidents —

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There were 3/4 sections in this article, which were not discussed over that talk page. If any person have issues, I will be happy to explain.

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of the British government) to justify the cruelty by the colonial government meted out against the Muslims. It is reported that British

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is not an exact copy of the whole content. I ask you again, tell me which part is the copy-vio and what is the source of the copy-vio??

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The combination of all these events caused the people to rebel, according to Madhavan Nair. He accepted the view that the cruelties of

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https://www.indiatoday.in/india/story/delhi-temple-attack-how-a-parking-scuffle-led-to-communal-tension-in-hauz-qazi-1560545-2019-07-02

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new historiographical models come into use. They are usually added to old models, but sometimes older models are rejected or abandoned.

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The article jumps from Ancient India to Colonial era. I'd like to have some knowledge on what happened between these two periods too.

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I plan on adding some material to fill this void. I will put older religious violence in its historical and cultural perspective.

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in Thirurangadi on 20 August 1921 which caused the rebellion. These arrests, and brutality, against Muslims began after Muslims of

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After an exhaustive search, I find no scholarly peer reviewed journal article or book quoting John Marshall as having written that.

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say. There is no need for grungy detail. Also, there is too much talk of "forced conversions", which are not serious violence. --

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Whatever may the statistics of forcible conversion, information are not reliable and so it is difficult to say the exact number.

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it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a

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it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a

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it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a

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Quoting a holocaust denier like Audrey Truschke doesn't add credibility. When it comes to Aurangzeb, J Sarkar is the authority.

350: 338: 112: 43: 6528:, has long been a most tolerant religion." and quotes the Dalai Lama: "Religious tolerance is inherent in Indian tradition". 6362: 2461: 2095: 2053: 1684: 1660: 1620: 1344: 1305: 1025: 986: 142: 117: 33: 5987:"The number swelled upto l,000 for a few days, and gradually fell off until relief was stopped in February 1922."; p. 105, 3379:. Historian has to be relevant. Lots of modern scholars cite Will Durant when they are discussing Muslim histories in India. 6002: 5828: 5788: 5753: 5709: 5674: 4758: 4726: 4694: 6777: 2658:

Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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and British agents and spies worked pretending as rebels as part of plot by the British against the rebels. All of such

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population in the disturbed areas. Dhanagare is of the opinion that "the communal sentiments or 'fanaticism' of the

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The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion:

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on 17:03, 14 September 2015 (UTC). For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected page, please see

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https://web.archive.org/20061206120548/http://archives.cnn.com:80/2000/ASIANOW/south/08/01/india.kashmir.massacre/

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strongly advised me not to use colonial-era textbooks. Yet you are arguing that an exception should be made for

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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the

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http://web.archive.org/web/20090214022741/http://www.kanglaonline.com:80/index.php?template=kshow&kid=8&

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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the

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The removed comment is a Nangparbat sock. I have told you where it is copied from, that really is all I can do.

1998:. For specific information on the problems with the file and how they can be fixed, please check the message at 1867: 216: 6538:

This sentence "Many historians argue that religious violence in independent India is a legacy of the policy of

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that the most suffered one due to the Rebellion were the Muslims, who were not the supporters of the Rebellion.

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https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/delhi/hauz-qazi-tense-after-communal-clashes/articleshow/70031895.cms

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Should articles not follow organic growth and limit themselves to the walls erected by the original creators?

3035:, you haven't said who has exaggerated. And you removed a page needed tag without supplying a page number. -- 6495: 6457:

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

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religious offence which was obviously intolerable... <description of Rama Raja's alleged atrocities: -->

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You claimed where it was copied you didn't specify which portion of the content deleted is the copy-vio.

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may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the

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If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with

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If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with

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Muslims including women and children who were hiding in the forests, hills and uninhabited houses were

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That is why I had pointed you modern scholars, if they feel acceptable to cite Durant, so you should.

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I'm going to go ahead and make that change for the reasons noted above. It just seems more relevant.

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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join

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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join

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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join

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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join

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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join

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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join

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Must be a mistake, I was only trying to undo Joshua. Don't know how so much content got removed.

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