Talk:Republic of China (1912–1949)/Archive 3

2141:

and they did so before and after 1949. The territory of the sovereign state of China was divided by civil war and two competing political groupings claimed the right of administration over the whole notwithstanding exercising control over only part - one, the pre-existing KMT regime, one the newly founded People's Republic. The former ran straight through 1949 but sovereignty became a matter of dispute and tension due to the creation of the latter. Hence, the amendment to the lead I have provided, which circumscribes the article to the period during which there was no such competing interest. All controversy thus falls away and can be left to post-1949 history and nothing to do with this article at all. I sincerely hope this will calm nerves on both sides. (And forgive me teaching all to such eggs; I merely wanted to expose the fallacy of arguing about nothing more than semantics here)

2500:

and all evidence points to this being the same Republic of China that was founded in China in 1912. Evidence includes: The ROC itself recignises itself as the same state; the UN recognised it as the same state until 1971; the US recognised it as the same state until 1978 (indeed any country that recognised the ROC at all after 1949 (and most countries did for at least a while) recognised it as the same state); the provincial government of Taiwan recognised itself as a province of the ROC before and after 1949, without itself changing at the time of the transition (and the same for Kinmen and Matsu); it had the same armed forces, who simply relocated themselves to be in Taiwan (or Kinmen etc.). Please respond to this before reverting back to saying "was a state", which is false.

2402:

policy, which whether you like it or not, hindered how Taiwan is represented in the international community. It also had implication of US's relations with Taiwan and PRC. The leader that ruled Taiwan for almost the next 30 years was the same that ruled the mainland before 1949. His refusal to be independent and desire to fight back the mainland, with the support and formal recognition by the United States, essentially got Taiwan where it is right now in terms of international recognition. Also, the relocation of the ROC government resulted in migration into Taiwan. Pretending to be unrelated states doesn't provide a complete story of how things become where it is, but more of a scenario for those who think things ought to be.

2583:"China has been recognised as the legitimate successor to this Republic of China" This statement makes no sense as written – you mean the People's Republic of China has been recognised widely as the successor to the Republic of China. But that's not really the point, the point is that the Republic of China continued to be widely recognised for decades after 1949, and of course still recognises itself to this present day. It's the same Republic of China, not a new one – when was this supposed new Republic of China founded exactly? Who claims to have founded it? Why was Taiwan celebrating the 100th anniversary of the founding of the republic just recently in 2011 if it is, as you claim, a brand new Republic of China? 2534:"the UN ... considered Taiwan to be the legitimate successor to the Republic of China" No, that is a false statement. The UN has never recognised "Taiwan" as a state at all. That is regrettable in my view, but it is a fact. It did recognise the Republic of China as a state from the UN's creation in 1945 until 1971. You can say that they were wrong to recognise ROC as the government of China for most of that time, but you can't change the fact that they did. More importantly, the ROC itself recognises itself as the same state that was founded in 1912. Indeed, anyone who still recognises the ROC at all recognises it as the same ROC that governed mainland China until 1949. 4047:

civil war between the Kuomintang and the Communist Party in 1949. our country has continued to this day and did not end in 1949, even though it is not widely recognized. Second, unless this entry is used as an entry describing the history of the Republic of China, the terminology of this entry will seriously ignore the existence of the Republic of China that now in Taiwan. The content of this entry should be extended to the Republic of China, now in Taiwan, Otherwise it will be very disrespectful of my country. I will not force you to make any changes. I just hope that you can listen to the opinions of a Taiwanese，And let me give back to my country a little.Thanks.

2764:"Taiwan isn’t " As I said previously, terms like "Taiwan" are ambiguous and it's important to be precise. I assume by "Taiwan" you're referring to the "new" Republic of China? If so, then the UN recognised this as a sovereign, independent state until at least 1971. The US recognised it as a state until at least 1978 (it's position on the matter after 1978 is deliberately ambiguous). The republic itself has been able to apply its own laws (and no-one else's) unhindered over the island of Taiwan (and other islands) continuously since 1945 (or, I guess, whenever you believe the state was founded). If that's not an independent sovereign state, then what is? 2831:

colony of Japan, which no doubt reflected in their history book, while the ROC government, as the successor of Qing Empire, "resume" the control of Taiwan in 1945, as well as refugee and "immigrant" of Chinese from the Mainland, are recognized in their history book also. Also, the event of losing most of the territory was also recorded. However, some native claim the sovereignty of Taiwan are separate from the concept of China (Greater China or whatever), so it was hard to tell by common sense on the issue, but only summarize and list out the source on recognizing ROC as a predecessor of Taiwan or equal to Taiwan or not.

1209:

since 1912; the case about the Beiyang episode and warlords period of multiple contenders for government is the perfect example of why the "one China" narrative should not be embraced by wikipedia in the present circumstance. If the government that currently sits in Taipei is officially the "Republic of China" and always has been, then the pages for "Taiwan" and "Republic of China" should be merged. The common vernacular of saying "Taiwan" is a linguistic shorthand and not a statement regarding sovereignty.

784:. A google search is very useful in finding sources, and so finding what they say about a subject. But the actual results returned on their own are much less useful. We don’t know what criteria companies like Google, DuckDuckGo use to rank their results. They can vary over time, by where you are when you search, even by your own searching habits. The fact that Google’s first results (for me) are Knowledge (XXG) pages shows this, as we cannot use what Knowledge (XXG) says as a guide to anything.-- 3507:. 3. Off-topic, although the user 123.150.182.180 commented in "Talk:CCTV New Year's Gala", the comment was withdrawn soon. However, it is very strange that the user Matthew hk added it again without the user 123.150.182.180's agreement. I just remind Matthew hk: We are talking about the infobox map of the article "Republic of China (1912–1949)". Let's concentrate on this discussion, instead of the off-topic thing. 123.150.182.179 06:32, 24 March 2019 (UTC) 2518:. Yes, once the UN (and so the international community) considered Taiwan to be the legitimate successor to the Republic of China but they corrected that error almost 50 years ago. Now the UN, all major international bodies and all but a handful of small countries recognise China, and only China, as the rightful successor to this Republic of China. Even Taiwan has stopped insisting everyone recognise it as the legitimate authority over the whole of China.-- 31: 1193:

government of China and replaced the ROC. This is in fact an era of ROC history as it did not end in 1949 and the Beiyang is more radically different from the KMT government of the 1930's than the KMT government of the 1960's is from it. There should not be a "one China policy" on Knowledge (XXG) other than WP:COMMONNAME (which doesn't deny that the ROC exists, only that it is usually called something else). --

220:. "Republic of China" was the name of the state then. "Republican China" is like "Imperial China" for pre-1912 China, "Communist China" for post-1949 China. It’s a way of referring to it but is neither a formal nor informal name, is just one way of describing it. Plus "Republican China" is likely to be easily confused with "Republic of China", and so with the modern usage for it, as the formal name of 4502:(ROC) was a sovereign state, whose status is still disputed today. The Central Government of the Republic of China was located in mainland China from 1912 to 1949. Before 1945, Taiwan is ruled by Japan. After that, this country consisted of mainland China and Taiwan between 1945 and 1949 at the same time. After the Republic of China Army was defeated by the PLA, the central government of ROC moved to 2697:"none of that matters as it was 50, 60, 70 years ago" Of course it still matters – we're talking about history here. You are claiming that the Republic of China of 1950 was a different Republic of China to that of 1948. Please kindly cite any country, organisation, politician, historian or anybody else who agrees with this, i.e. recognised the ROC before and after 1949 but who recognised them as 2637:

relations intact (for a while at least). Of course the territory it controlled was much reduced (down to just Taiwan, Kinmen, Matsu, Hainan (until 1950) and a few smaller islands), but this was all territory that it controlled before 1949 as well. (Besides, the loss of territory was a progressive process, it didn't all happen overnight.) Can the same be said of any two places called Chester?

2034: 612:, so this primary redirect is not driven by reader preference. The UN and most nations derecognized the ROC back in the 1970s. The Taiwanese government is saddled with a constitution that makes ROC the official name. But it no longer promotes either the name itself or the implied ideology that Taiwan represents an alternative China. Yet Knowledge (XXG) seems to exist in a time warp. 2895:

simply the "History of Republic of china during 1912-1949". Please refer to the Post-World War II section of this article as an example and conformity: "For the history of Republic of China after 1949, see Taiwan." It clearly indicates that there is another article that is about the history of ROC after 1949. ROC simply didn't end in 1949, but part of the history did.

294: 2567:. Whatever recognition there was ended 47 years ago. Whether you think something changed then, or whether it was just the UN waking up to reality and correcting an error, for over 40 years China has been recognised as the legitimate successor to this Republic of China, and it makes no sense to say it is the same as Taiwan, also known as the Republic of China.-- 2997:"The country of ROC still in existence". No, they are not the same thing. Just because the KMT decided to call their new state the Republic of China, it does not make them the same thing. For a while the world went along with this, while China was in chaos and when anti-communist sentiment was strongest. But this ended in the 1970s, over 40 years ago , and 431: 2067:請將1912~1949 的1949改為“至今”，因為中華民國至今依然存在于中華民國台灣，我認為這樣寫是對於中華民國也是對台灣方面的不尊重，不可避免的使我感到憤怒。對於中國大陸當局而言，中華民國于1949年就滅亡了，然而對於台灣方面，以及對於海外華人，以及現實大情況而言，中華民國依然存在。維基百科作為獨立自由的機構，所用的資料應該是完全中立的立場，不應該偏向某一方。作為中立的國際立場，應該尊重國際所認知的九二共識即一中個表原則，尊重中華民國國民，尊重中華民國台灣的尊嚴。即使大部分人認為中華民國已經滅亡，也應該尊重少部分人的認知與尊嚴，更何況這少部分人只是相對而言的少，其實並不少。若不能改成至今，那也請務必把該詞條後面加上有爭議的標籤，這是維基百科應該做的，這涉及了國家已經國民尊嚴的問題，希望予以解決。 3918:). The ROC government still claimed the sovereignty on these land until PRC government signed a treaty with Soviet Union. Until today, ROC government existed in Taiwan. It is more a political agenda to use a jpg map that exclude Taiwan as part of China. It was well known in history book despite government at that time signed a "secret" treaty (see 2096: 2155:"Anthem below the right side of the flag, "五旗共和歌（Five Flags of the Republican Song）" should be changed to "五族共和歌（Song of Five Races Under One Union）". And picture on the right has too much influence on the paragraph display. It is recommended to use the table to arrange or to fold the infobox of the "History of Republic of China ". 3122:

from 1945 to the present day. I just can't see how to square this with your idea that the original Republic of China ended in 1949 and a new one started. It seems clear to me that this is the same state, just with a (drastically) reduced territory and population and its government buildings in a different place.

3072:

consensus was that the ROC was the legitimate Chinese government well past 1949. Until the 1960s or later, that was the position of the majority of the world, with the Soviet bloc and a few outliers as exceptions. The "ROC post-1949 is a distinct state" argument is creating a new state out of whole cloth.

2679:

Or, to look at it a different way, and answer your last question, The KMT lost the Chinese civil war. The communists won, took control of China, founded the successor state to this Republic, and have been in charge for almost 70 years. It is nonsensical for the loosing side to claim they are the same

2499:

I have changed the introduction text to say: "The Republic of China (Chinese: 中華民國, Chunghwa Minkuo) is a sovereign state in East Asia that from 1912 to 1949 occupied the territories of modern China, ..." I made the change because the government of Taiwan is still, to this day, the Republic of China,

1952:

The Qing Empire stationed "ambans" in Tibet, Mongolia, and Korea. These can be thought of as equivalent to ambassadors, although the concept of international relations did not exist at the time. At any rate, the Qing treated these non-Chinese regions quite differently than they did provinces in China

1208:

I very much support this line of reasoning. The arguments are too focused on international recognition and ideological narratives, instead of on the most important aspect, which is continuity of government. The government personnel physically moved the capital, and has maintained active sovereignty

4366:

Matt, I didn't assert "Taiwan is part of China since 1945". I mean that the Nationalist Government of the Republic of China took over the occupation of Taiwan after the Second World War. Since then the island has been administered as Taiwan Province of ROC. On 1 October 1949, the PRC is established.

3054:

as being the same country as this one, not Taiwan which is not even recognised as a independent country. I know sometimes the Taiwanese government likes to claim it is the rightful government of the whole of China, but no-one takes it seriously. I doubt even Taiwan does, as there is no plausible way

2894:

As stated in Undo, please revise the title of the article. The content is about the Republic of China during 1912-1949, not the entire history that is still in continuation. The article could be titled something like the "Koumintang Sovereignty of Republic of China in Mainland China (1912-1949)", or

2876:

As the article says in its first sentence, "The Republic of China was a state in East Asia from 1912 to 1949." It can be considered a period of Chinese History, but it also has a name, the Republic of China, distinct from the dynasties before and the People’s Republic of China that came after. Hence

2597:

And btw, while it's OK to say casually that "Taiwan was recognised until 1971", it's important to understand that this is not language the UN used at the time. Actually the UN recognised the Republic of China as the government of "China" until 1971. In the context of the present day, we usually use

2481:

Obviously the ROC's significance to the place we call "China" diminished significantly in 1949, but that doesn't mean that the ROC stopped existing, or that it became a brand new state. Pretty much everyone who still recognised the ROC at all recognised it as the same state as before – including the

2314:

I agree. Taiwan and ROC are not the same thing. Taiwan is an island; ROC is a state, formerly in control (well, more or less) of all China, and in control of Taiwan since the Japanese surrender in 1945. Taiwan and the ROC have a very different history prior to the retreat in 1949. If the US lost all

3121:

The UN kept the Republic of China as a member until 1971; the United States kept diplomatic relations with the ROC until 1978; the Republic of Korea kept them until 1992. Meanwhile Taiwan, Jinmen and other islands have been governed continuously by the same government (namely the Republic of China)

3099:

Fact, is, in 1949, this period of Chinese history ended. It ended with the victory of the Communists in the Civil War and the establishment of the PRC in place of the previous Republic of China. You are right, for a while the world did not accept this outcome, and instead pretended Taiwan was still

2967:

ROC has been a sovereign state by the wiki definition of "a nonphysical juridical entity that is represented by one centralized government that has sovereignty over a geographic area. International law defines sovereign states as having a permanent population, defined territory, one government, and

2140:

Our earnest editors have descended into a political argument which is simply unnecessary. They seem to have forgotten that the title of the article is "Republic of China". Until the recent DPP intercessions, there was only ever one regime laying claim to ruling that entity - that led by the KMT -

1559:

Objection, the Republic of China title is still used in Taiwan much like Cuba kept its official name the Republic of Cuba after 1959. The ROC did not use the title "Taiwan" until the 1970s since it was still known by most sources internationally as "China" (by the UN and some US historians) or less

4046:

I am a person born in Taiwan and hope to be concerned about Taiwan’s international image. Now I see the name of the entry for the "Republic of China (1912-1949)", which obviously has a big problem. First, since the founding of our country in 1912, China has Move to Taiwan after the failure of the

3137:

Since JohnBlackburne keeps pushing this idea of the ROC somehow not being in existence even though the entire governmental body simply relocated within its own defined territory; pray-tell how should the various European governments-in-exile in WW2, in which some were not even represented by their

3100:

in charge, due to a combination of Cold-War politics and the chaos in China at the time. But they corrected this error decades ago. It’s not that the PRC came into existence in 1971. It was founded in 1949, coinciding with the end of this period of history. As seen when we recently discussed it at

2830:

First, wikipedia should be a place to list the summary of the existing reliable source. Which by a rough reading in the news report inside Taiwan, the status was even disputed inside Taiwan, so wikipedia is not the best place to express only one opinion . For most of the "modern" time Taiwan was a

2337:

So, in the interest of clarity, you believe the ROC miraculously winked out of existence in 1949, despite holding Taiwan and Hainan and continuing to contest areas of the mainland militarily? And despite being recognized by most of the world, while the PRC was mainly recognized at that time by the

1670:

between 1912 and 1949. Use "People's Republic of China" to distinguish from its predecessor "Republic of China" between 1912 and 1949, because they are known as "China". The term "Republic of China (Taiwan)" can better describe the regime which is named as "Republic of China" and de facto controls

3548:

In the past I changed the infobox map without disscussion in the talk page. But from this time I won't do it again. I will discuss in the talk page first, and don't change the infobox map until the consensus achieved. In conclusion, we are talking about the infobox map of the article "Republic of

2447:

being upheld by most countries is purely political, and nothing to do with whether ROC is a country. ROC obviously didn't end in 1949 as it was a sitting member of the UN and the UN Security Council until 1971. But when the PRC took ROC's seat it didn't suddenly delegitimise ROC's existence since

2401:

Then the modern United States is not the same thing as the state that was founded over 200 years ago as well, or United Kingdom for that matter. It is not just merely sharing the name. Taiwan being governed under Republic of China had and has modern implication. It is the basis of the "One China"

2354:

I agree that this makes no sense. The Republic of China never stopped existing as an entity, so to refer to it in the past tense is misleading. Yes, the territory it governed became a lot smaller, but never went away. The question isn't about which is the successor as the "one true China", merely

480:

Actually, using the title "Republican China" is to differentiate to the one ruling the Mainland until 1949 and the one ruling Taiwan/Pescadores since 1945. Though the PRC is the "legal successor" of the ROC like Russia as the USSR, the ROC maintained its existence in Taiwan Province and the rump

4197:

If you are trying to treat Taiwan and China as different countries and territories, I do not oppose this arrangement. In that case, the ROC Government would be a Government-in-exile that retreated to Taiwan, while its legitimacy in China/Zhongguo/Central Plains has been succeeded by the People's

3071:

The United Nations, which recognized the ROC as the continuing and sole representative of China until 1971, disagrees. When, exactly, did they say "oh, actually, we're expelling the True China - which is obviously PRC - from representation, and switching to a new state on Taiwan"? International

2898:

As of the result, the first sentence of the article is incorrect. It should be "The Republic of China was a state in East Asia from 1912 to present." It is still distinct from previous dynasties and apart from PROC, which ROC and PROC are two different sovereignties. In addition, as previously

2284:

Agreed with 1.55.196.214, this article makes no sense. The current Republic of China was not founded after 1949. It is the very same one that fought in WW2, did Northern Expedition and etc. There was no break in continuity of the nation. All of this should be placed under one Republic of China

2226:

no longer exists, often implying that it's government collapsed in 1949, in fact I'd say that there's a larger difference between the Beiyang Period and the KMT period then between the KMT rule over the Mainland, and the KMT being forced to reduce their territory to Taiwan, and Fu-Kien/Fujian.

1192:

is unrelated to this one or that this country was fully dissolved when it lost most of its territory. I fail to see how these edits are anything but misleading, this seems to be written either from a Communist or Taiwan independence perspective as both claim that the PRC is the only legitimate

2636:

It's not just the same name. The Republic of China before and after 1949 had the same constitution, the same president Chiang Kai-Shek, the same laws, the same legislature and other bodies of government, the same army, held the same seat in the UN and had the vast majority of their diplomatic

1564:

China as "Communist China" and Taiwan as "China" in the succession box since the U.S. government used these naming conventions in the 1950s and 1960s. This is similar to the Soviet occupation of the Baltics because the PRC was not a internationally recognized state at that time. John, the war

1231:

We seem to have multiple anon IP's changing the infobox flag info. IP's such as 219.142.19.198, 114.253.197.232, 58.135.126.34, 183.179.168.62, 123.124.233.241, etc... They have been reverted by many editors but this has to stop. It's been going on at least since March so I'm reporting it to

152:. Most historical sources refer to the pre-1949 period of China as "Republican China" or "Republican era", which that latter may be also renamed to. I don't think there could be a gap in periods between the First Republic (1912–27), Second Republic (1927–49) or Third Republic (1949–present). 3966:

Regarding the map file copyright problem. In theory you can't assume a map published in 1933, that all the authors had been dead. But in practice it is too difficult to dig out the very origin of the map as the file only have the publisher "亞新地學社" on it, but without the info such as chief

800:

Google's algorithm is considered a jewel of the tech industry. It's primary purpose is to present the reader with a page of results that represent his likely interests. If the term ROC was generally understood to refer to Taiwan, Google would return a page of solid Taiwan-related results.

4187:

In 1949, near the end of the Civil War, the Chinese Communist Party established the People's Republic of China, overthrowing the nationalist government on the Chinese mainland, with the nationalists moving their capital from Nanking to Taipei and controlling only the Taiwan area after

2676:"the same constitution, the same president...". But none of that matters as it was 50, 60, 70 years ago. The world was a very different place then, Taiwan especially so. It is not the same as this Republic of China. For one the ROC then was a sovereign independent state. Taiwan isn’t. 3858:

So it is wrong to use it as the primary map. ROC occupied/resumed ruling of Taiwan from 1945-1949, and despite at that was under the era of the Civil war, both Communist and KMT treated Taiwan as part of China, and the current PRC government constantly want to gain control of Taiwan.

1995:

appointed administrative officers of generals to rule the regions mentioned above, instead of the so-called "ambassadors" you said. By the way, you should study Chinese history very hard. Otherwise, you will still misunderstand Chinese history, and put forward absurd points of view.

322:, issued in 1945, lists "Republic of China" as a permanent member of the Security Council. This is a big part of the reason why the Nationalists on Taiwan were anxious to retain the ROC moniker. But of course the reference is clearly to the subject of this article, and not to Taipei. 4460:

Knowledge (XXG) articles are required to present a neutral point of view. However, reliable sources are not required to be neutral, unbiased, or objective. Sometimes non-neutral sources are the best possible sources for supporting information about the different viewpoints held on a

2250:

It’s not the same thing as the modern ROC, i.e. Taiwan. The world recognises China as the successor state to the pre-1949 Republic of China, has done for decades. This is the basis of America’s One China Policy, and most countries have some version of it. Or, to put it more simply,

2598:

the term "Taiwan" to mean the Republic of China (or the free area thereof), and "China" to mean the People's Republic of China. But the terms "China" and "Taiwan" mean different things to different people and in different contexts, so please try to be precise in what you write.

4598:

That's still more vague than what we have, and potentially confusing, as what does "on Mainland China" mean: economic or diplomatic presence today, rather than once governing the area that is now the PRC? There's the hatnote at the top of the article that directs readers to

2706:(editing my response, after re-reading your post) "And so 1949 is the best date to use for the establishment of Taiwan" So you're admitting that there wasn't actually any formal establishment of a new state? I'm happy to accept that 1949 is a reasonable cut-off date for the 1477:

is tricky as the signing as the period from drafting to signing straddles the establishment of the PRC on 1 Oct 1949. There is no mention in the article whether Nationalist representatives were present at the signing in November of that year. The links in both instances at

3967:

cartographer. So in practice it can be assumed as published by unknown human author so that the map was copyrighted until 1983. Or may be some even worse assumption, the map was published in ROC era in Wuhan, should the ROC (Taiwan) law still applies , or PRC law applies.

2785:, I see that on 20 September 2018 you removed the disputed tag, saying it was "stale". I'm disappointed, frankly, that you would stoop to this rather than engage in the discussion, which is clearly awaiting your further input. Do you have any response to the points above? 722:. This is a nonsensical proposal. Although the country is commonly known as Taiwan, the formal name is used in many contexts, and is the only current use for "Republic of China" on its own (i.e. without the "People’s..."). So the only sensible use is for it to redirect to 2231:

the Republic of China, and yes I think that this article should remain separate of the current Republic of China article, but I think that it should be heavily rewarded to indicate this as a period of Chinese history rather than a singular state that ceased to exist.

2807:

as a new state or as a new phase of the state described here, and the repercussions for this article. Why, out of interest, can it not be argued that the modern-day Taiwan is the same state, albeit with a far smaller geographical territory? I find the arguments of

4633:. The contents of the article will still cover the time up to 1949, and I'm not sure there even is any true presence of the ROC in diplomatic or economic terms in mainland China today. (And such information were somehow added later, would that be big problem?) 397:

They are identical. There's nothing inherently wrong with saying Frank Hsieh was born in Republican China. It's just not commonly done because Republican China only ruled Taiwan for four years before being reduced to ROC on Taiwan, and its rule of Taiwan is

4337:

My main proposal is that "The Republic of China (ROC) was a sovereign country" is inaccurate as it still is a sovereign country. But if you treat both ROC mainland and ROC Taiwan as two countries, I have no issues with that. Knowledge (XXG)'s guideline is

1043:

Those changes are almost the opposite of anything useful. The article on Taiwan is about the island, currently controlled by the Republic of China, the article China is about the rest of the nation, currently controlled by the People's Republic of China.

4298:

I would like to point out that the assertion regarding Taiwan in #4 is controversial. Just because the ROC claims that Taiwan "retroceded" does not make Taiwan really "retroceded". Some claims that the ROC's taking control of Taiwan in 1945 is merely a

4127:). Since there was a very significant difference between the two political entities, it is fair to treat the ROC that exists after the retreat to Taiwan as a separate topic, even though there is a continuity with the ROC that existed on the Mainland. 3498:

You don't understand what I said. 1. I just give my opinions and the reasonable reasons, and wait for the consensus achieved. I don't canvass here. I don't change the infobox map until the consensus achieved. 2. I give the reasonable reasons to prove

4201:

Do note that the United Nations recognised the Government of ROC as the sole legitimate representative of China until 1971, when "illegal" "representatives of Chiang Kai-shek" was expelled, and the "legitimacy" and "rights" of the PRC Government was

2263:

is not, is not recognised as such by all other states, bar a small number of tiny states. If Taiwan is not a sovereign state it logically is not the same as the one described in this article, no matter what the government of Taiwan claims or once

830:

If you are suspicious of Google, by all means check Bing or DuckDuckGo. The essay JB links to criticizes Google hit counts, but I am not using them. For our purpose, the main problem with Google is that it is unduly influenced by Knowledge (XXG).

4193:

The Constitution of the Republic of China (ROC) was promulgated in 1948, following which the Government is established in Nanjing, China. The first President of the ROC under the Constitution is Chiang Kai-shek. The current ROC was not formed in

2710:, but I don't accept that a new state was actually created – and the state itself certainly doesn't, neither now nor at the time. Do you have a specific date of when you believe the new state was created? Did the old state cease on the same day? 3190:

Why on Earth was the disputed tag removed from the was claim below? There is no consensus from what I can see below, and I also can't see any sort of coherent argument for WHY the RoC of today is somehow different from the RoC of yesterday.

3138:

original governments, and/or with their national territories completely occupied (emphasis on completely), be treated? With the same logic these nations should also have stopped existing, with any successor state being distinctly 'different'.

2734:

states the end as 1950 (i.e. after 1949), but also states: "no armistice or peace treaty has ever been signed, and the debate continues as to whether the civil war has legally ended." You cannot state definitively that the KMT "lost" in 1949.

2196: 4434:

The currencies you mention seem to have had too limited a circulation to be considered mentioning in the infobox here. The article on the old Yuan, linked to by the infobox mention, does briefly, but only briefly, mention those currencies.

4221:

Let's just say ROC totally loses its legitimacy in 1949 as a "China" Government, and now becomes "Taiwan" Government instead. Then I would agree with you that the "Republic of China on the mainland" no longer exists. Just my two cents.

2680:

country as before 1949, as if the war never happened. And so 1949 is the best date to use for the establishment of Taiwan, although it’s always contentious and tricky when a conflict ends without a formal surrender or peace treaty.--

2857:, or both era can be overlap. The point is, instead of edit warring with ip yet again, please provide reliable source on classifying the late 1940s era as "Unitary parliamentary constitutional republic" or "military dictatorship". 4662:). (To be clear, the Republic of China still exists, and its continued existence after 1949 was recognised not only by itself, but also for multiple decades by the UN, the United States (and indeed most non-communist countries).) 815:

Wait a minute. Google is great for finding sources, but not the order of the sources. You can pay Google to have your stuff appear higher up in the hierarchy. I'm not saying they did that here, but the order is at Googles will.

750:

and is clearly biasing Google in favor of Taiwan. Judging from the DuckDuckGo results, most readers typing in "Republic of China" are confused with the people's republic. If ROC directed here, we could have a hatnote that says,

348:. While the idea is not without merit, I don't think it's going to get much support as long as ROC is still the official name of Taiwan. Since that title is unavailable to us, "Republican China" is the next best option, IMO. - 3480:? Also, it need consensus to change the primary map of the infobox. Thus, before any consensus exist, please don't change it, nor canvassing people to made false support (other uninvolved editors, please see the vote move in 2355:

about what happened to the Republic of China as a state rather than its territory. And we all know what happened: they retreated to Taiwan, which along with the surrounding islands is the territory they currently govern.

1113:

It looks like canvassing and speaking for someone else to me. I'll leave it but it certainly does not need to be posted twice in a row. Plus with you sockpuppeting other articles it's now hard to take you seriously.

2548:

Also, what about Kinmen and Matsu? They were part of the ROC from 1912 to the present day. Are you saying they suddenly switched to a different ROC some time in 1949? Can you give a precise date of when it changed?

947:

may claim a descent from the polity that ruled the mainland of China before 1949 but it is clearly not the same. On the other hand, as a user, I was surprised to find that Republic of China took me to an article on

268:. The current title is so unwieldy that many people simply don't bother with it. I've had to correct numerous wrong links for people born in Republican China but their country of birth was incorrectly linked to 3690:

shows the the territories of the Republic of China between 25 October 1945, when it regained Taiwan from Japan, and 5 January 1946, when it officially recognized the independence of Outer Mongolia, for nearly

3452:

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That seems like the right thing to do in the cases you mention. The Republic of China in each case is clearly the one in this article. Linking them to the modern state of Taiwan is likely to be confusing.--

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The Republic of China as China doesn't exist anymore. It has been succeeded by the Republic of China as Taiwan. Two different countries, the later one simply inherited the government of the earlier one.

4325:

is locked. Anyway, I have no interest in a political argument, nor do I want to engage in doubts of whether I am a sockpuppet. It wastes my time actually. Not as if I really do care about how you write

1423:

I've fixed all the cases I can find (878 pages), though I expect there will be more. Please can a subject expert edit these articles, where I'm unsure which Republic of China article should be linked?

297:. As noted below, "Republican China" represents an attempt to distinguish the 1912-1949 regime from post-1949 Taiwan. The term did not arise until the 1960s, long after the KMT had fled to Taiwan. That 2448:

1949. The article should be carefully worded, of course, but the current form shows a strong bias towards the PRC's philosophy. Perhaps the article should refer to 1912–1949 as a 'period' of the ROC?

3104:. 1971 is not a significant date for China or Taiwan. The 1971 switch from recognising China instead of Taiwan is just one of a long series of steps taken in normalising relationships with China.-- 2467:, the "Republic of China" is the 1912-1949 era. That's what this article should be about. Articles on former states are common on Knowledge (XXG), but not so much in published historical writing. 3219: 1968: 4024: 2416:

If it's not the same thing before and after 1949, then why did so many of the world's countries recognise it as the same thing for decades after 1949? Why did the UN recognise it as the same?

2189: 3922:) with Japan to recognize Taiwan as a colony of Japan, the civilian and later Chinese government recognized Taiwan and Manchukuo as war-occupied territories of Japan. The SVG reflect the 3787:, The jpg map is especially wrong on the color of Taiwan. Despite it had footnote saying it was ceded to Japan in Qing era, but not many people to click to enlarge large map to view it. 1885:"第一章总纲, 第四条中华民国领土为江苏、浙江、安徽、江西、湖北、湖南、四川、西康、河北、山东、山西、河南、陕西、甘肃、青海、福建、广东、广西、云南、贵州、辽宁、吉林、黑龙江、热河、察哈尔、绥远、宁夏、新疆、蒙古、西藏等固有之疆域。中华民国领土，非经国民大会议决不得变更。"). All unilateral independence declarations of 3400: 2759:

in 1987, or the constitutional reforms of the 1990s and 2000s that created the democracy we know today are at least as significant. Does each one of those mean a new state was created?

2170: 638:- Longstanding consensus has "Republic of China" correctly redirected to Taiwan. This move request would disrupt that snowball consensus and history, so I see no reason for the move. 2751:"The world was a very different place then, Taiwan especially so" Of course Taiwan is very different now than in the 1940s, but those changes didn't all happen in 1949. Arguably the 204: 4572:

is confusing and suggests that the said Republic no longer exists – and the introductory sentence also reiterates that. If the suggested new title is too wordy, then perhaps simply

2917:

You are wrong. This is about the country that was in existence between 1912 and 1949, primarily in mainland China. It is not the same thing as modern Taiwan. One simple reason: the

4493:

the ROC did not disappear after 1949. The country was aggressed by the Soviet Union illegally and still certified as China by the UN before 1971. The original title is misleading.

4143:

No country was founded in 1912 in Asia. The 1912 founded ROC is a succeeding government of the Great Qing, not a country. China is the country, but it was not founded in 1912. --

2932:. But you should review this page and the archives for previous discussions, as you might find your proposed title or something similar has been considered and rejected before.-- 2620:. The government of Taiwan can call themselves the Republic of China, and claim to rule all of China, but this corresponds to no reality and is recognised by basically no-one.-- 1516:, i.e. the state that existed between the Qing dynasty and the end of the Civil War. The first sentence should say what it was, per the guidelines and just good writing style. 2435:

When people talk about China they almost always mean the PRC. That's a given. But that doesn't mean that the RoC hasn't been a continuous entity. Even our own article on the

4650:

I really do believe the current title is confusing. Most articles in Knowledge (XXG) about states with (yyyy–YYYY) in their title refer to states that no longer exist (e.g.

4115:

It is common practice on Knowledge (XXG) to create separate articles for periods of history which can be differentiated from the general thread of a country's history (see:

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thing. During 1930s, Republic of China recognized Taiwan is under Japanese rule, but insisted Outer Mongolia is a part of China. 123.150.182.177 11:24, 25 March 2019 (UTC)

1307:. However, I realise that there are a range of views on the status of the Republic, so I'll leave the articles alone unless there's general agreement to change. Thanks, 4095:) cover the geography. Since you have zero edit, and other editors did not interested to re-open the discussion , so please accept the fact that in wikipedia we call it 1486:

are wrong, as "establishment" of the ROC can only refer to Dr. Sun's 1912 creation (even though the specific claim in question is unreferenced); I have corrected them.

76: 64: 59: 1906: 4603:, which should make clear that "officially" the RoC continues, although it's now largely a pretense to call it that, and is inconsistent with Knowledge (XXG) usage. 4184:

The Republic of China (ROC) was a sovereign country that existed between 1912 and 1949 in Mainland China, which is now controlled by the People's Republic of China.

3877:

shows the territories of the Republic of China between 1 January 1912, when it was established, and 25 October 1945, when it regained Taiwan from Japan, for nearly

3682:

shows the territories of the Republic of China between 1 January 1912, when it was established, and 25 October 1945, when it regained Taiwan from Japan, for nearly

3444:

shows the territories of the Republic of China between 1 January 1912, when it was established, and 25 October 1945, when it regained Taiwan from Japan, for nearly

3411: 1701: 2651:

Also, please clarify: When exactly are you claiming the "new" Republic of China was founded, and when exactly did the "old" Republic of China cease to exist?

251:. "Republican China" is the most common term used exclusively to refer to the Republic of China's mainland period. The most authoritative example is probably 4463:

On most political issues like this one, it is very hard indeed to find reliable sources where the experts refuse to make evaluations of the various claims.

3394: 2166: 1474: 1434: 4546:, has to mean that there's no continuation after 1949, although you think that it does. It's definitely more concise and specific than the wordy and vague 1347: 305:

is a travesty. The KMT no longer holds sway in either China or Taiwan, yet it somehow retains a clique of reality-denying supporters on Knowledge (XXG).

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is not a sovereign state and cannot be the same thing. So to write "The Republic of China was a state in East Asia from 1912 to present" makes no sense.

4321:

This is not a single-purpose account. The users (including the admins) at Chinese Knowledge (XXG) know that I am an experienced Wikipedian since 2013.

4367:

The ROC Central Government relocated to Taipei in December 1949. I can agree that Taiwan is not part of China since 1949 if China refers to the PRC.--

2730:

lost the civil war, but the war didn't end in 1949, the KMT never conceded defeat, and still held on to territory. The Knowledge (XXG) article on the

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is not only not recognised as such, it’s not even considered a sovereign state by most. So it makes no sense to claim it Taiwan is the same thing as

1259:) but refer to events in mainland China in 1912–1949. Should these wikilinks be changed to point to this article instead? A few typical examples: 3515: 3422: 3943: 3716: 2961: 2862: 4420:

also be listed? In fact the currency system of this era is rather complicated and the current entry in the infobox barely does it any justice. --

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is more representative, reasonable and proper for the infobox map of the article "Republic of China (1912–1949)", so it is better to use the map

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is correct if the ROC on Taiwan is actually unitary (I see no evidence to the contrary); the ROC on the mainland is described in the infobox at

3889:

between 1895 and 1945, which is known by most people. So the question you concerned doesn't exist. 123.150.182.179 11:37, 25 March 2019 (UTC)

1350:

as well (as all of its laws are still in effect in England, Scotland, Etc.) this just specifies the time period, it doesn't distract from the

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pending the final disposition of the territorial sovereignty of Taiwan. Therefore whether Taiwan became part of China in 1945 is debatable.--

4017: 3376: 3348: 3320: 3292: 2752: 2003: 1932: 1788: 1566: 1276: 1135: 1098: 1028: 482: 153: 3735: 3198: 3111: 3062: 3027: 2939: 2884: 2687: 2627: 2574: 2525: 2392: 2292: 2271: 1549: 1375: 791: 733: 231: 3881:, the most part of the period when Republic of China controlled Chinese mainland. According to the map's name, we can use the map caption 3526:

outside wikipedia to attack that same page or someone just keep on hopping ip. To prevent this case went to ANI again, may be i would use

1878: 683:. The purpose was to allow "Republic of China" to refer exclusively to Taiwan. So it is a proposal in the opposite direction as this one. 1803:

Mongolia became independent in 1911 and Tibet in 1912. What Beijing or Nanjing recognized should not be treated as the end of the story.

1526:

The successor states are China, Taiwan and Mongolia. There is no need to make it any more complex than that, no need to change the order.

567:

Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a

102:

Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a

3503:

is the only representative, reasonable and proper infobox map of the article "Republic of China (1912–1949)", so it is redundant to use

3461:

is more representative, reasonable and proper for the infobox map of the article "Republic of China (1912–1949)", so please use the map

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for the only infobox map of the article "Republic of China (1912–1949)" and never change it. 123.150.182.177 11:07, 25 March 2019 (UTC)

3465:

for the only infobox map of the article "Republic of China (1912–1949)" and never change it. 123.150.182.177 06:05, 24 March 2019 (UTC)

1063:: Please don't delete my comments again. The thing mentioned by myself but deleted by yourself just now is relevant to the proposal of 3939: 3712: 3223: 2858: 2236: 1779:.) Please use the official names of the three regimes mentioned above. Otherwise, it will make unnecessary mess, conflict and depute. 1752: 1672: 1655: 986: 953: 881: 3421:, would you mind leaving some comment as part of a discussion ? Word of warning, someone else is not patient and warning you guys at 2044: 1667: 1624: 1604: 1581: 1539: 1466: 1072: 1002: 595: 376: 131: 4069: 3549:

China (1912–1949)". Let's concentrate on this discussion, instead of the off-topic thing. 123.150.182.177 06:52, 24 March 2019 (UTC)

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Yep sorry... that was a misread on my part. I have struckthru part of it. I still completely oppose the requested move though.

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The jist of all of these seems to be another attempt to assert that the state in this article is the same as the modern state

781: 885: 253: 2903:". However, if you insist the existence of this article, please revise accordingly to reflect the facts and avoid confusion. 3762:

I like B but am persuaded to keep status quo if SVG is Knowledge (XXG) policy and if B doesn't have the right copyright. --

4002:

Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

3989:

Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

3599:

Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

3268:

Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

4032: 2204: 1914: 1910: 1898: 1862: 1772: 1760: 1620: 1608: 1593: 4659: 1950:), England, the papacy, and Vietnam were all vassal states of the Qing. So there is no limit to what China could claim. 1156: 558: 530: 93: 1740: 977:

between 1912 and 1949, but the article current named "Taiwan" mainly talks about the regime "Republic of China" whose

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only since 1949. The periods mentioned by the two articles are different. It is unnecessary to merge the two article.

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I'm afraid they are not identical. From what I've seen, Republican China refers to mainland China only. For example,

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History of the administrative divisions of China before 1912#Provinces and Feudatory Regions under the Qing dynasty

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Up until 1860, the Qing emperor considered himself to be ruler of the world. If we go by the official record (清實錄/

1017:, but the two proposals were finally refused. You can make your comments about the two proposals in the talk page 4417: 3767: 3370: 3342: 3314: 3286: 2464: 2373:

is not the same thing as this one, it’s just that they share the same name. The world overwhelmingly recognises

2007: 1712:" remained too shortly (only two months), between 25 October 1945, when Republic of China got the sovereignty of 1570: 1139: 1102: 1032: 952:

the island. I'd like to suggest as a different change that if this change is rejected that a new change renaming

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As for saying that "The KMT lost the Chinese civil war", I don't think this is an objective fact. Clearly, they

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between 1895 and 1945, which is known by most people. According to the map's name, we can use the map caption

3711:. (As nominator). May worth to explore the option on adding second map, but SVG as primary map is the policy. 3440:

I changed the infobox map of the article "Republic of China (1912–1949)" for some reasonable reasons: the map

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the same. Just because two things have the same name does not make them the same. See e.g. many places called

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its territory but Maine, would it suddenly make sense to say Maine and the United States are the same thing?

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Republic of China at all, I don't see why you're trying to get consensus for something so uncontroversial. --

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I just want to point out that there was a bunch of ip that keep on changing the map of the related articles

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or to move any pages. I would simply replace ] by ] in articles which clearly refer to events before 1949.

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If my last sentence is correct, all articles mentioning the current ROC should use the common name Taiwan.

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border. The border of effective control was constantly change due to foreign occupied (semi)-colony area (

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The page describes the period of the central government of the Republic of China in mainland China. The

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It seem it require reliable source to state the end date of military dictatorship, or the start date of

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Thanks for the advice. I've fixed the first 50 articles and will resume tomorrow if no one complains.

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Why are there two green colors in the more recently drawn map, and is the reason explained somewhere?

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Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with

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to ask you guys to stop, and that thread was keep on remove by way many ip (including "you" as .180:

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Some area are ceded/occupied by Russia sine late Qing or ceded to Japan since late Qing (Taiwan) or

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They didn't form a new state. The existing state continued, but with most of its territory missing.

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Calling the entity ROC or Taiwan is a separate discussion, but ROC simply did not ended in 1949.

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ROC government itself and the local government of Taiwan, not to mention the US and the UN etc..

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in the South China Sea, and Kinmen and Matsu which belongs to the streamlined "Fujian Province".

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As for the article title, if you think it is wrong and needs to be changed then it requires a

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on December 7, 1949, but remains "Republic of China" as its official name from then on. Thus,

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draw by wiki user (note, in case of anything wrong , we can ask the user to redraw the SVG)

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That doesn't sound controversial at all, yes they're the same country but technically the

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treats them as the same. You got any reason to disagree with such illustrious scholars as

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The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:

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The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:

1695:

Change some content in the infobox of this article to make it more accurate and rigorous

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Taiwan is part of China (ROC) since 1945. In 1949, the ROC Government still controlled

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to Taiwan, not that it disbanded and reformed. And we all know that the reason for the

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used to be a part of China. Republic of China offically recognized the independence of

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Wiki rule = "reliable sources are not required to be neutral, unbiased, or objective."

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without any discussion documented in the talk page. Some angry user even shout out in

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they could assert their sovereignty over the whole of China, hasn’t been since 1949.--

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What a unprofessional attack... Please cite reference when you claim someone is wrong.

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the article’s title, giving the same dates, which should match those in the infobox.--

1724:, and 5 January 1946, when Republic of China offically recognized the independence of 4678: 2813: 1405: 927: 889: 581: 493: 449: 164: 116: 1882: 1874: 1866: 1739:

Thirdly, there are three successors of the Republic of China between 1912 and 1949,

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to rename back China to People's Republic of China, and Taiwan to Republic of China

747: 149: 1853:"仍合满、汉、蒙、回、藏五族完全领土为一大中华民国"). Thus, Republic of China remained the sovereignty of 443: 262: 3414:: "It is preferable that diagrams and maps be saved in the SVG file format". ) 2756: 1679:

Actually the Republic of China has controlled Taiwan since 1945, not just 1949.

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I agree with those above – Taiwan is the primary topic for "Republic of China".

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If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the

293:. "Republic of China" is far more common than "Republican China," according to 4124: 1165:

Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a

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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a

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Secondly, the map. All territory of the Republic of China showed by the map "

726:. What happened in the 1970s is irrelevant, this is based on current usage.-- 3637: 2215: 140:

I propose to rename and shorten this article to just "Republican China" per

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is a redirect. What do you really want? This article is about 中華民國 (大陸時期).

2463:

If you look at the era charts found in books on Chinese history, including

1508:

I just undid a series of anon edits, fixing a number of errors, including:

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suggested by other users, this article should be merged with the article "

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This article mainly talks about the regime "Republic of China" controlled

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the second image isn't properly licensed and there's no reason to change

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to bolster any one people's identity or even to foster nationalism, per

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from later 17th century–early 18th century to its collapse in 1912 (see

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change the title to The time of the R.O.C. Government in Mainland China

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The country of ROC still in existence, just not recognized by PRC; see

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proper. The later had provincial governors, circuits, and prefectures.

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Please feel free to revert any I've got wrong (or fix those I missed).

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the page to the proposed title at this time, per the discussion below.

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are null. "Republic of China offically recognized the independence of

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Just to clarify: I am not reviving any proposals to edit the redirect

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is surprised to find that Republic of China is taken to an article on

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The Cambridge History of China: Volume 12, Republican China, 1912-1949

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Back to was. What has to happen to stop people from doing that edit?

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between 1912 and 1949 offically recognized its independence. It made

1589: 1531: 1256: 1088: 1076: 982: 949: 723: 605: 302: 273: 221: 2968:

the capacity to enter into relations with other sovereign states." .

1917:

is one of the successors of Republic of China between 1912 and 1949.

1007:

to make the article current named "Taiwan" as Republic of China-only

3930:

territories of China and the jpg map simply not correct in neither

3910:

independent as a puppet state/formal republic of the Soviet Union (

1913:

succeeded part sovereignty from Republic of China. In other words,

3688:"File:Republic of China (orthographic projection, historical).svg" 3605:

Rfc on using which map is more suitable for encyclopedic purpose.

3450:"File:Republic of China (orthographic projection, historical).svg" 3051: 2998: 2374: 2256: 1980: 1890: 1858: 1846: 1826: 1659: 1643: 1585: 1535: 1128:

There isn't any sockpuppet of myself, so please take me seriously.

3102:

Knowledge (XXG):Articles for deletion/Republic of China (1949–71)

4511:

Knowledge (XXG):Article_titles#Non-judgmental_descriptive_titles

4081:

It was decided by a lots of wiki editors to call the country as

4009:

A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion

3915: 3610:

File:Republic of China (orthographic projection, historical).svg

3573:

File:Republic of China (orthographic projection, historical).svg

2181:

A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion

1710:

File:Republic of China (orthographic projection, historical).svg

1705:" was adopted in 1937, instead of 1947 as the infobox recorded. 1188:) is allowed to stand, it basically states that the present-day 661: 3814:

to describe the map. 123.150.182.179 11:17, 25 March 2019 (UTC)

660:

this was just suggested 3 weeks ago, failed, and was closed by

2227:"Taiwan" is not a "successor state" to the Republic of China, 2028: 1907:外蒙古独立_百度百科#事件过程#国民政府承认#"国民政府发表公告承认外蒙独立"以及图片"1946.1.5民国承认外蒙古独立" 746:

and what pops up? This article. This is despite the fact that

25: 4388:

This discussion is closed. Please do not make further edits.

4164:

This discussion is closed. Please do not make further edits.

610:

Only one of the top five DuckDuckGo results refers to Taiwan

4522:

Knowledge (XXG):Article titles#Deciding_on_an_article_title

3164: 3403:) (add your name here despite you are blocked for socking) 3242: 3012:. They share a formal name but that means nothing. So do 1281:…the Qing Dynasty, which was replaced by a republic, the 344:

You seem to suggest that this article should be moved to

257:, which uses the term as the title of Volumes 12 and 13: 4278: 4087: 1469:

as federal during the Beiyang government, but there is

1324: 1181: 600: 264:). Tens of thousands of other examples can be found on 509:

Knowledge (XXG):Sockpuppet investigations/FreshCorp619

4658:, as do articles about people or coroporations (e.g. 4516:

The nutral name of this page in Chinese wikipedia is

2803:

I see the dispute continues over whether to consider

1580:–––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––– The successors of 1565:

actually stopped when they just took Hainan in 1950.

1155:

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a

679:

The RM immediately above was to move this article to

529:

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a

1837:). Republic of China succeeded all sovereignty from 1732:" to show all territory of the Republic of China in 604:– The "Republic of China" lemma currently points to 4548:

The time of the R.O.C. Government in Mainland China

4520:. So the country was not over at 1949.According to 4518:

The time of the R.O.C. Government in Mainland China

4488:

The time of the R.O.C. Government in Mainland China

3274:So, to all ip that made undiscussed change of map: 3050:No it did not. The world overwhelmingly recognises 571:. No further edits should be made to this section. 207:, please explain your reasons, taking into account 106:. No further edits should be made to this section. 1169:. No further edits should be made to this section. 543:. No further edits should be made to this section. 3412:Knowledge (XXG):Manual of Style/Diagrams and maps 1869:" 第二章国土, 第二条中华民国国土依其固有之疆域。国土及其区划，非以法律不得更变之。"; 1303:I'm happy to make a list and do the changes with 115:the page at this time, per the discussion below. 2025:Semi-protected edit request on 17 September 2018 1603:was a part of China until January 5, 1946, when 1560:common, "Formosa". So I much prefer to use, per 4629:I don't see any real issue with confusion with 3636:, etc.), as well as Japanese invasion (Taiwan, 3567: 3239: 1675:since 1949. –––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––– 4023:Participate in the deletion discussion at the 3640:, etc) as well as self-declared independence ( 2338:Communist states? How convenient for the CPC! 2195:Participate in the deletion discussion at the 1877:"第三章国土, 第三条中华民国国土依其固有之疆域。国土及其区划非以法律不得变更之。"; 888:are the Taiwanese army, navy, and airforce. -- 2104: 2065: 1702:National Flag Anthem of the Republic of China 1538:now is recognised as the modern successor of 1443:(unclear whether these ended in 1912 or 1949) 1431:(probably needs more than just a link change) 1272:obtains twelve military aircraft from France. 748:the ROC redirect is used over 600 times a day 664:. This is a disruptive request in my opinion! 8: 3695:. By comparison, it is obvious that the map 3457:. By comparison, it is obvious that the map 507:IP who started this thread is a sockpuppet: 3008:So it makes no sense to identify this with 2110:: Except the purpose of Knowledge (XXG) is 1743:(established on 1 October 1949, the end of 1348:United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland 985:on December 7, 1949, and de facto controls 3213: 3192: 2286: 2156: 2078:) 05:30, 17 September 2018 (UTC)Rhhast Ma 1997: 1926: 1782: 1129: 1092: 1022: 557:The following is a closed discussion of a 209:Knowledge (XXG)'s policy on article titles 205:polling is not a substitute for discussion 92:The following is a closed discussion of a 4180:Please read the following two sentences: 2222:This entire article is written as if the 1400:Thank you for taking on this useful work! 4542:I don't think the current article name, 1865:"第一章总纲, 第三条中华民国领土为二十二行省、内外蒙古、西藏、靑海。"; 1631:, which was established by revising the 1519:The common name of the country then was 943:The polity currently calling itself the 4408:Should regional currencies such as the 4342:, I seem to experience hostility here. 3157: 2563:Taiwan was recognised, until 1971. See 2377:as being the same country as this one. 1728:. Thus, I think we should use the map " 1534:. But no, they are not the same thing. 1475:Dutch–Indonesian Round Table Conference 1435:Dutch–Indonesian Round Table Conference 1294:….was a politician and diplomat in the 481:Fujian Province (Quemoy and Matsu). -- 4631:Republic of China in/on Mainland China 4568:I agree that the current article name 3622: 3504: 3473: 3418: 3220:2601:18d:c180:2a49:7866:c6f2:7beb:1015 3001:is now seen as the successor state to 2103: 1646:was established on October 1, 1949 in 1293: 1280: 1267: 44:Do not edit the contents of this page. 3562:Rfc on the primary map in the infobox 2753:Constitution of the Republic of China 1277:Events preceding World War II in Asia 7: 4416:) and emergency currencies like the 3593:The following discussion is closed. 3262:The following discussion is closed. 3020:but they are two distinct regions.-- 2369:it’s not the same thing: the modern 2151:Some errors that need to be modified 1987:are administrative divisions of the 1730:File:1947 Zhonghua Minguo Quantu.png 1251:I see that lots of articles link to 576:The result of the move request was: 111:The result of the move request was: 4574:Republic of China on Mainland China 4272:Man, the current ROC is located at 3516:Talk:Kingdom of Hungary (1920–1946) 3423:Talk:Kingdom of Hungary (1920–1946) 1652:Government of the Republic of China 1463:List of republics#Unitary republics 1429:List of republics#Unitary republics 878:Government of the Republic of China 742:So let's check that current usage. 3576:as the primary map in the infobox. 1873:"第一章国家, 第三条中华民国之领土依从前帝国所有之疆域。"; 1512:The subject of the article is the 1075:" into the article current named " 987:Free area of the Republic of China 954:Republic of China (disambiguation) 882:President of the Republic of China 782:Knowledge (XXG):Search engine test 24: 18:Talk:Republic of China (1912–1949) 3998:The discussion above is closed. 3985:The discussion above is closed. 3839:However, the map talks about the 3410:In wikipedia we use SVG map (see 1176:POV-pushing or history re-writing 880:is the government of Taiwan. The 4018:Song to the Auspicious Cloud.ogg 3806:, the color of Taiwan is right. 3417:Also, the infobox had parameter 2755:adopted in 1947, the lifting of 2136:Root of the argument: semantics 2094: 2032: 884:is the president of Taiwan. The 758:and set those readers straight. 429: 402:lumped with the latter period. - 29: 3407:(will add the full list later) 1881:"第一章总纲, 第一条中华民国领土为各省及蒙古西藏。"; 379:, but not in Republican China. 3621:C. other proposal such as use 3207:16:13, 27 September 2018 (UTC) 2795:16:42, 28 September 2018 (UTC) 2130:05:36, 17 September 2018 (UTC) 2105: 2088:05:30, 17 September 2018 (UTC) 2066: 2012:06:28, 12 September 2018 (UTC) 1963:10:42, 10 September 2018 (UTC) 1247:Wikilinks to Republic of China 886:Republic of China Armed Forces 254:The Cambridge History of China 1: 4672:08:00, 25 February 2020 (UTC) 4613:19:07, 22 February 2020 (UTC) 4586:09:58, 21 February 2020 (UTC) 4570:Republic of China (1912–1949) 4560:21:42, 16 February 2020 (UTC) 4544:Republic of China (1912–1949) 4537:18:43, 16 February 2020 (UTC) 4484:Republic of China (1912–1949) 4482:The editors should move page 3940:Matthew hk on public computer 3713:Matthew hk on public computer 3654:) at 05:29, 5 May 2019 (UTC). 3628:Note that both map (A,B) are 3528:Knowledge (XXG):Third opinion 2859:Matthew hk on public computer 2255:describes a sovereign state, 2209:06:07, 28 November 2018 (UTC) 2175:16:40, 21 November 2018 (UTC) 2045:Republic of China (1912–1949) 1941:09:15, 9 September 2018 (UTC) 1813:21:13, 8 September 2018 (UTC) 1797:12:26, 8 September 2018 (UTC) 1554:21:47, 28 February 2018 (UTC) 1467:Republic of China (1912–1949) 1073:Republic of China (1912–1949) 596:Republic of China (1912–1949) 377:Republic of China (1912–1949) 197:, then sign your comment with 132:Republic of China (1912–1949) 4652:Hungarian Republic (1919–20) 4473:23:12, 28 January 2020 (UTC) 4445:23:25, 15 January 2020 (UTC) 4430:19:02, 14 January 2020 (UTC) 3883:"Republic of China in 1930s" 3812:"Republic of China in 1930s" 3586:) 23:49, 16 June 2019 (UTC) 3255:) 23:49, 16 June 2019 (UTC) 2901:History of Republic of China 2412:20:07, 1 November 2017 (UTC) 1821:remained the sovereignty of 1638:Second, after the ending of 1623:is one of the successors of 1611:, which de facto controlled 1523:, the same before and since. 1227:Infobox changing has to stop 1071:wants to merge the article " 753:Not to be confused with the 4159:Proposed change of rhetoric 2919:Republic of China (1912–49) 2774:20:11, 28 August 2018 (UTC) 2745:14:11, 28 August 2018 (UTC) 2720:13:56, 28 August 2018 (UTC) 2692:12:09, 28 August 2018 (UTC) 2661:23:44, 27 August 2018 (UTC) 2647:23:41, 27 August 2018 (UTC) 2632:22:29, 27 August 2018 (UTC) 2608:20:10, 27 August 2018 (UTC) 2593:19:53, 27 August 2018 (UTC) 2579:19:29, 27 August 2018 (UTC) 2559:18:34, 27 August 2018 (UTC) 2544:18:32, 27 August 2018 (UTC) 2530:15:53, 27 August 2018 (UTC) 2510:13:59, 27 August 2018 (UTC) 2492:06:28, 27 August 2018 (UTC) 2477:20:14, 26 August 2018 (UTC) 2426:14:19, 25 August 2018 (UTC) 2383:Republic of China (1912–49) 2253:Republic of China (1912–49) 2146:14:45, 7 October 2018 (UTC) 2059:to reactivate your request. 2047:has been answered. Set the 1915:Mongolian People's Republic 1911:Mongolian People's Republic 1899:Mongolian People's Republic 1773:Mongolian People's Republic 1761:Mongolian People's Republic 1689:07:18, 27 August 2018 (UTC) 1627:between 1912 and 1949, not 1621:Mongolian People's Republic 1609:Mongolian People's Republic 1594:Mongolian People's Republic 1498:20:09, 26 August 2018 (UTC) 1457:19:36, 26 August 2018 (UTC) 1410:22:06, 23 August 2018 (UTC) 1394:17:45, 23 August 2018 (UTC) 1380:14:44, 23 August 2018 (UTC) 1364:14:18, 23 August 2018 (UTC) 1346:is the same country as the 1338:00:37, 18 August 2018 (UTC) 1317:00:26, 18 August 2018 (UTC) 1001:support the two proposals " 620:) 12:48, 25 May 2018 (UTC) 423:No, they are not the same. 259:Republican China, 1912–1949 4711: 4656:Hellenic State (1941–1944) 4117:England in the Middle Ages 3948:08:49, 17 April 2019 (UTC) 3902:00:51, 16 April 2019 (UTC) 3869:11:30, 25 March 2019 (UTC) 3835:11:19, 25 March 2019 (UTC) 3797:11:11, 25 March 2019 (UTC) 3665:11:01, 25 March 2019 (UTC) 3544:06:46, 24 March 2019 (UTC) 3494:06:09, 24 March 2019 (UTC) 3435:04:25, 24 March 2019 (UTC) 1741:People's Republic of China 1664:Republic of China (Taiwan) 1660:People's Republic of China 1644:People's Republic of China 1590:Republic of China (Taiwan) 1586:People's Republic of China 1584:between 1912 and 1949 are 1480:Error: {{Lang}}: no text ( 1441:Zhou (country subdivision) 1242:10:13, 4 August 2018 (UTC) 1079:". It is also relevant to 755:People's Republic of China 744:Google "Republic of China" 550:Requested move 25 May 2018 4687:14:13, 22 June 2020 (UTC) 4418:Chinese customs gold unit 4398:07:46, 30 July 2019 (UTC) 4377:07:41, 30 July 2019 (UTC) 4352:07:35, 30 July 2019 (UTC) 4313:05:38, 30 July 2019 (UTC) 4292:05:35, 30 July 2019 (UTC) 4248:04:01, 30 July 2019 (UTC) 4234:03:57, 30 July 2019 (UTC) 4174:07:46, 30 July 2019 (UTC) 4153:05:49, 30 July 2019 (UTC) 4137:00:41, 30 July 2019 (UTC) 4109:16:21, 29 July 2019 (UTC) 4057:14:10, 29 July 2019 (UTC) 4037:07:21, 26 June 2019 (UTC) 3887:Taiwan was ruled by Japan 3808:Taiwan was ruled by Japan 3721:11:03, 2 April 2019 (UTC) 3482:Talk:CCTV New Year's Gala 3472:Well, would you consider 3116:20:13, 23 June 2017 (UTC) 3082:19:35, 23 June 2017 (UTC) 3067:23:50, 20 June 2017 (UTC) 3046:11:35, 20 June 2017 (UTC) 3032:04:26, 20 June 2017 (UTC) 2981:18:17, 19 June 2017 (UTC) 2944:21:55, 16 June 2017 (UTC) 2913:09:59, 15 June 2017 (UTC) 2889:22:17, 14 June 2017 (UTC) 2841:16:34, 1 April 2019 (UTC) 2822:15:22, 1 April 2019 (UTC) 2458:11:47, 16 June 2018 (UTC) 2397:10:22, 17 June 2017 (UTC) 2365:22:16, 16 June 2017 (UTC) 2348:23:30, 13 June 2017 (UTC) 2325:23:36, 13 June 2017 (UTC) 1222:10:20, 10 June 2018 (UTC) 1203:10:20, 10 June 2018 (UTC) 489:) 11:10, 1 May 2018 (UTC) 272:, which is a redirect to 160:) 05:30, 1 May 2018 (UTC) 85:Requested move 1 May 2018 4000:Please do not modify it. 3987:Please do not modify it. 3977:12:30, 23 May 2019 (UTC) 3772:00:24, 23 May 2019 (UTC) 3755:10:19, 22 May 2019 (UTC) 3596:Please do not modify it. 3522:), so either you have a 3265:Please do not modify it. 3228:01:31, 26 May 2019 (UTC) 3148:07:04, 17 May 2019 (UTC) 3132:07:37, 9 July 2017 (UTC) 2962:Countries not recognized 2565:Taiwan#Foreign relations 2301:06:06, 16 May 2017 (UTC) 1967:Please read the article 1897:on 5 January 1946, when 1883:1936年《中华民国宪法草案公布案》（五五宪草） 1831:Mongolia under Qing rule 1771:on 5 January 1946, when 1633:Constitution of Mongolia 1596:. Here are the reasons: 1162:Please do not modify it. 1144:07:06, 28 May 2018 (UTC) 1124:06:57, 28 May 2018 (UTC) 1107:05:50, 28 May 2018 (UTC) 1054:07:12, 28 May 2018 (UTC) 1037:05:05, 28 May 2018 (UTC) 966:01:00, 28 May 2018 (UTC) 936:00:41, 28 May 2018 (UTC) 919:10:38, 27 May 2018 (UTC) 898:09:53, 27 May 2018 (UTC) 869:07:30, 26 May 2018 (UTC) 841:08:45, 26 May 2018 (UTC) 826:00:35, 26 May 2018 (UTC) 811:00:28, 26 May 2018 (UTC) 796:00:03, 26 May 2018 (UTC) 768:23:53, 25 May 2018 (UTC) 738:21:47, 25 May 2018 (UTC) 707:00:10, 26 May 2018 (UTC) 693:23:29, 25 May 2018 (UTC) 675:19:42, 25 May 2018 (UTC) 648:19:40, 25 May 2018 (UTC) 630:12:48, 25 May 2018 (UTC) 590:08:37, 28 May 2018 (UTC) 564:Please do not modify it. 536:Please do not modify it. 99:Please do not modify it. 4660:Air Belgium (1979–2000) 2921:was a sovereign state. 2867:07:05, 8 May 2019 (UTC) 2708:contents of the article 2276:04:04, 9 May 2017 (UTC) 2245:14:45, 8 May 2017 (UTC) 1736:between 1946 and 1949. 1642:between 1946 and 1950, 1615:at that time, become a 1575:11:21, 1 May 2018 (UTC) 521:17:09, 6 May 2018 (UTC) 502:20:16, 7 May 2018 (UTC) 466:16:50, 7 May 2018 (UTC) 435:16:05, 7 May 2018 (UTC) 412:16:45, 7 May 2018 (UTC) 389:17:08, 3 May 2018 (UTC) 358:16:42, 7 May 2018 (UTC) 332:02:41, 5 May 2018 (UTC) 315:22:59, 2 May 2018 (UTC) 286:18:41, 1 May 2018 (UTC) 236:06:26, 1 May 2018 (UTC) 173:20:17, 7 May 2018 (UTC) 125:20:17, 7 May 2018 (UTC) 4524:, we should rename it. 4042:Problem with item name 3879:33 years and 10 months 3684:33 years and 10 months 3588: 3520:Special:Diff/873650922 3512:Nationalist government 3446:33 years and 10 months 3257: 3003:this Republic of China 2439:explains that the ROC 2259:is a sovereign state, 1991:. The emperors of the 1755:from 1949, the end of 1666:are the successors of 956:to Republic of China. 4509:The title has broken 4265:few or no other edits 4074:few or no other edits 3885:to describe the map. 3875:"File:China 1933.jpg" 3804:"File:China 1933.jpg" 3701:"File:China 1933.jpg" 3697:"File:China 1933.jpg" 3680:"File:China 1933.jpg" 3569:The consensus is for 3501:"File:China 1933.jpg" 3463:"File:China 1933.jpg" 3459:"File:China 1933.jpg" 3442:"File:China 1933.jpg" 2757:Martial law in Taiwan 1867:1913年《中华民国宪法草案》（天坛宪草） 1835:Tibet under Qing rule 1817:I disagree with you. 926:per all the above. -- 578:consensus not to move 42:of past discussions. 4267:outside this topic. 4076:outside this topic. 3608:A. existing SVG map 3571:A. existing SVG map 2812:extremely powerful. 1901:de facto controlled 1775:de facto controlled 1542:, if any state is.-- 1255:(which redirects to 113:no consensus to move 4323:My previous account 4301:military occupation 4093:Geography of Taiwan 3686:. However, the map 3617:File:China 1933.jpg 3478:File:China 1933.jpg 3448:. However, the map 1875:1923年《中华民国宪法》（曹锟宪法) 1841:in 1912, including 1013:, and I agree with 1009:" in the talk page 146:Wang Jingwei regime 4410:North-eastern yuan 4198:Republic of China. 4029:Community Tech bot 3920:Twenty-One Demands 3241:See the RfC close 2201:Community Tech bot 1909:). In conclusion, 4499:Republic of China 4279:Republic of China 4268: 4077: 3821:If talking about 3739: 3655: 3230: 3218:comment added by 3209: 3197:comment added by 3109: 3060: 3025: 2937: 2930:WP:requested move 2882: 2732:Chinese Civil War 2685: 2625: 2572: 2523: 2437:Chinese Civil War 2390: 2371:Republic of China 2303: 2291:comment added by 2269: 2224:Republic of China 2214:"was" a state in 2190:中華民國國旗歌 (演奏版).ogg 2177: 2161:comment added by 2127: 2063: 2062: 2014: 2002:comment added by 1943: 1931:comment added by 1879:1931年《中华民国训政时期约法》 1799: 1787:comment added by 1757:Chinese Civil War 1749:Republic of China 1745:Chinese Civil War 1734:Chinese Civil War 1668:Republic of China 1640:Chinese Civil War 1625:Republic of China 1605:Republic of China 1582:Republic of China 1547: 1514:Republic of China 1495: 1373: 1325:Republic of China 1296:Republic of China 1283:Republic of China 1270:Republic of China 1253:Republic of China 1214:User:The Mattador 1190:Republic of China 1146: 1134:comment added by 1109: 1097:comment added by 1039: 1027:comment added by 945:Republic of China 789: 731: 601:Republic of China 588: 504: 500: 346:Republic of China 301:is a redirect to 299:Republic of China 270:Republic of China 229: 175: 171: 123: 82: 81: 54: 53: 48:current talk page 4702: 4281: 4250: 4090: 4059: 3894:BeenAroundAWhile 3786: 3753: 3750: 3744: 3733: 3646:RfC relisted by 3645: 3624: 3598: 3506: 3475: 3420: 3387: 3386: 3367: 3359: 3358: 3339: 3331: 3330: 3311: 3309:123.150.182.177‎ 3303: 3302: 3283: 3267: 3178: 3173: 3167: 3162: 3105: 3056: 3021: 2933: 2878: 2849:Political status 2681: 2621: 2568: 2519: 2469:Nine Zulu queens 2445:One China Policy 2386: 2265: 2123: 2121: 2108: 2107: 2102: 2098: 2097: 2069: 2068: 2054: 2050: 2036: 2035: 2029: 1955:Nine Zulu queens 1805:Nine Zulu queens 1543: 1491: 1489: 1485: 1369: 1327: 1264:1913 in aviation 1232:administration. 1164: 1069:Nine Zulu queens 1065:Nine Zulu queens 975:Chinese mainland 916: 910: 833:Nine Zulu queens 803:Nine Zulu queens 785: 760:Nine Zulu queens 727: 685:Nine Zulu queens 681:Republican China 622:Nine Zulu queens 614:Nine Zulu queens 603: 584: 566: 538: 496: 491: 433: 324:Nine Zulu queens 307:Nine Zulu queens 225: 201: 195: 189: 167: 162: 136:Republican China 119: 101: 73: 56: 55: 33: 32: 26: 4710: 4709: 4705: 4704: 4703: 4701: 4700: 4699: 4480: 4452: 4406: 4277: 4211:Dongsha Islands 4161: 4121:Francoist Spain 4086: 4044: 4025:nomination page 4011: 4006: 3993: 3784:123.150.182.177 3782: 3780: 3764:Iloilo Wanderer 3748: 3742: 3740: 3736:Summoned by bot 3672: 3634:Outer Manchuria 3594: 3589: 3564: 3368: 3365:123.150.182.180 3363: 3362: 3340: 3337:123.150.182.179 3335: 3334: 3312: 3307: 3306: 3284: 3281:111.192.193.239 3279: 3278: 3263: 3258: 3236: 3188: 3183: 3182: 3181: 3176:Wiki definition 3174: 3170: 3163: 3159: 3114: 3065: 3030: 2942: 2887: 2874: 2851: 2690: 2630: 2577: 2528: 2395: 2274: 2220: 2197:nomination page 2183: 2153: 2138: 2119: 2106:這涉及了國家已經國民尊嚴的問題 2095: 2093: 2052: 2048: 2033: 2027: 2004:123.124.233.238 1933:111.192.186.167 1863:1912年《中华民国临时约法》 1789:114.253.192.110 1697: 1617:sovereign state 1567:108.162.177.213 1552: 1506: 1504:Multiple errors 1487: 1479: 1378: 1323: 1249: 1229: 1178: 1173: 1160: 1136:123.124.233.241 1099:123.124.233.241 1029:123.124.233.241 914: 908: 794: 736: 599: 562: 552: 547: 534: 483:108.162.177.213 476: 454:Denis Twitchett 234: 199: 193: 187: 181: 154:108.162.177.213 97: 87: 69: 30: 22: 21: 20: 12: 11: 5: 4708: 4706: 4698: 4697: 4696: 4695: 4694: 4693: 4692: 4691: 4690: 4689: 4641: 4640: 4639: 4638: 4637: 4636: 4635: 4634: 4620: 4619: 4618: 4617: 4616: 4615: 4591: 4590: 4589: 4588: 4563: 4562: 4526: 4525: 4514: 4507: 4494: 4479: 4476: 4454:The Wiki rule 4451: 4448: 4405: 4402: 4385: 4384: 4383: 4382: 4381: 4380: 4379: 4359: 4358: 4357: 4356: 4355: 4354: 4330: 4329: 4328: 4327: 4316: 4315: 4295: 4294: 4219: 4218: 4215:Taiping Island 4207:Dachen Islands 4203: 4199: 4195: 4190: 4189: 4185: 4178: 4160: 4157: 4156: 4155: 4140: 4139: 4112: 4111: 4043: 4040: 4021: 4020: 4010: 4007: 4005: 4004: 3994: 3992: 3991: 3981: 3980: 3979: 3963: 3962: 3961: 3960: 3959: 3958: 3957: 3956: 3955: 3954: 3953: 3952: 3951: 3950: 3849: 3848: 3847: 3846: 3845: 3844: 3816: 3815: 3779: 3776: 3775: 3774: 3757: 3743:Chris Troutman 3723: 3705: 3704: 3671: 3668: 3644:, 1921), etc. 3603: 3602: 3601: 3566: 3565: 3563: 3560: 3559: 3558: 3557: 3556: 3555: 3554: 3553: 3552: 3551: 3550: 3467: 3466: 3405: 3404: 3388: 3360: 3332: 3304: 3272: 3271: 3270: 3238: 3237: 3235: 3232: 3199:130.184.252.74 3187: 3184: 3180: 3179: 3168: 3156: 3155: 3151: 3135: 3134: 3110: 3107:JohnBlackburne 3097: 3096: 3095: 3094: 3093: 3092: 3091: 3090: 3089: 3088: 3087: 3086: 3085: 3084: 3061: 3058:JohnBlackburne 3026: 3023:JohnBlackburne 3006: 2988: 2987: 2986: 2985: 2984: 2983: 2969: 2965: 2958: 2950: 2949: 2948: 2947: 2946: 2938: 2935:JohnBlackburne 2926: 2896: 2883: 2880:JohnBlackburne 2873: 2870: 2850: 2847: 2846: 2845: 2844: 2843: 2825: 2824: 2800: 2799: 2798: 2797: 2783:JohnBlackburne 2777: 2776: 2761: 2760: 2748: 2747: 2723: 2722: 2703: 2702: 2686: 2683:JohnBlackburne 2674: 2673: 2672: 2671: 2670: 2669: 2668: 2667: 2666: 2665: 2664: 2663: 2649: 2626: 2623:JohnBlackburne 2595: 2573: 2570:JohnBlackburne 2546: 2524: 2521:JohnBlackburne 2497: 2496: 2495: 2494: 2433: 2432: 2431: 2430: 2429: 2428: 2414: 2391: 2388:JohnBlackburne 2352: 2351: 2350: 2332: 2331: 2330: 2329: 2328: 2327: 2307: 2306: 2305: 2304: 2293:207.62.170.217 2279: 2278: 2270: 2267:JohnBlackburne 2219: 2212: 2193: 2192: 2182: 2179: 2152: 2149: 2137: 2134: 2133: 2132: 2125:leave language 2061: 2060: 2037: 2026: 2023: 2022: 2021: 2020: 2019: 2018: 2017: 2016: 2015: 1977:Inner Mongolia 1973:Outer Mongolia 1951: 1921: 1920: 1919: 1918: 1903:Outer Mongolia 1895:Outer Mongolia 1887:Outer Mongolia 1855:Outer Mongolia 1843:Outer Mongolia 1823:Outer Mongolia 1777:Outer Mongolia 1769:Outer Mongolia 1765:Outer Mongolia 1726:Outer Mongolia 1718:Penghu islands 1699:Firstly, the " 1696: 1693: 1692: 1691: 1648:Mainland China 1613:Outer Mongolia 1601:Outer Mongolia 1578: 1577: 1548: 1545:JohnBlackburne 1528: 1527: 1524: 1517: 1505: 1502: 1501: 1500: 1493:leave language 1445: 1444: 1438: 1432: 1421: 1420: 1419: 1418: 1417: 1416: 1415: 1414: 1413: 1412: 1374: 1371:JohnBlackburne 1366: 1344:United Kingdom 1301: 1300: 1287: 1274: 1248: 1245: 1228: 1225: 1207: 1177: 1174: 1172: 1171: 1157:requested move 1151: 1150: 1149: 1148: 1147: 1057: 1056: 991: 990: 968: 938: 921: 900: 871: 854: 853: 852: 851: 850: 849: 848: 847: 846: 845: 844: 843: 790: 787:JohnBlackburne 773: 772: 771: 770: 732: 729:JohnBlackburne 716: 715: 714: 713: 712: 711: 710: 709: 651: 650: 593: 574: 573: 559:requested move 553: 551: 548: 546: 545: 531:requested move 525: 524: 523: 513:Triggerhippie4 505: 492:Blocked sock. 475: 472: 471: 470: 469: 468: 438: 437: 417: 416: 415: 414: 392: 391: 365: 364: 363: 362: 361: 360: 337: 336: 335: 334: 320:The UN Charter 288: 241:Strong Support 238: 230: 227:JohnBlackburne 214: 213: 188:*'''Support''' 180: 177: 163:Blocked sock. 144:, much as the 130: 128: 109: 108: 94:requested move 88: 86: 83: 80: 79: 74: 67: 62: 52: 51: 34: 23: 15: 14: 13: 10: 9: 6: 4: 3: 2: 4707: 4688: 4684: 4680: 4675: 4674: 4673: 4669: 4665: 4661: 4657: 4653: 4649: 4648: 4647: 4646: 4645: 4644: 4643: 4642: 4632: 4628: 4627: 4626: 4625: 4624: 4623: 4622: 4621: 4614: 4610: 4606: 4602: 4597: 4596: 4595: 4594: 4593: 4592: 4587: 4583: 4579: 4575: 4571: 4567: 4566: 4565: 4564: 4561: 4557: 4553: 4549: 4545: 4541: 4540: 4539: 4538: 4534: 4530: 4523: 4519: 4515: 4512: 4508: 4505: 4501: 4500: 4495: 4492: 4491: 4490: 4489: 4485: 4477: 4475: 4474: 4470: 4466: 4462: 4457: 4449: 4447: 4446: 4442: 4438: 4432: 4431: 4427: 4423: 4419: 4415: 4411: 4403: 4401: 4400: 4399: 4395: 4391: 4378: 4374: 4370: 4365: 4364: 4363: 4362: 4361: 4360: 4353: 4349: 4345: 4341: 4336: 4335: 4334: 4333: 4332: 4331: 4324: 4320: 4319: 4318: 4317: 4314: 4310: 4306: 4302: 4297: 4296: 4293: 4289: 4285: 4280: 4275: 4271: 4270: 4269: 4266: 4262: 4258: 4254: 4249: 4245: 4241: 4236: 4235: 4231: 4227: 4223: 4216: 4212: 4208: 4204: 4200: 4196: 4192: 4191: 4186: 4183: 4182: 4181: 4177: 4176: 4175: 4171: 4167: 4158: 4154: 4150: 4146: 4142: 4141: 4138: 4134: 4130: 4126: 4122: 4118: 4114: 4113: 4110: 4106: 4102: 4098: 4094: 4089: 4088:Taiwan Island 4084: 4080: 4079: 4078: 4075: 4071: 4067: 4063: 4058: 4054: 4050: 4041: 4039: 4038: 4034: 4030: 4026: 4019: 4016: 4015: 4014: 4008: 4003: 4001: 3996: 3995: 3990: 3988: 3983: 3982: 3978: 3974: 3970: 3965: 3964: 3949: 3945: 3941: 3937: 3933: 3929: 3925: 3921: 3917: 3913: 3909: 3905: 3904: 3903: 3899: 3895: 3891: 3890: 3888: 3884: 3880: 3876: 3872: 3871: 3870: 3866: 3862: 3857: 3856: 3855: 3854: 3853: 3852: 3851: 3850: 3842: 3838: 3837: 3836: 3832: 3828: 3824: 3820: 3819: 3818: 3817: 3813: 3809: 3805: 3801: 3800: 3799: 3798: 3794: 3790: 3785: 3777: 3773: 3769: 3765: 3761: 3758: 3756: 3751: 3745: 3737: 3731: 3727: 3724: 3722: 3718: 3714: 3710: 3707: 3706: 3702: 3698: 3694: 3693:only 2 months 3689: 3685: 3681: 3677: 3674: 3673: 3669: 3667: 3666: 3662: 3658: 3653: 3649: 3643: 3639: 3635: 3631: 3626: 3619: 3618: 3613: 3611: 3606: 3600: 3597: 3591: 3590: 3587: 3585: 3581: 3577: 3575: 3574: 3561: 3547: 3546: 3545: 3541: 3537: 3533: 3529: 3525: 3521: 3517: 3513: 3509: 3508: 3502: 3497: 3496: 3495: 3491: 3487: 3483: 3479: 3471: 3470: 3469: 3468: 3464: 3460: 3456: 3455:only 2 months 3451: 3447: 3443: 3439: 3438: 3437: 3436: 3432: 3428: 3424: 3415: 3413: 3408: 3402: 3399: 3396: 3392: 3389: 3384: 3381: 3378: 3375: 3372: 3366: 3361: 3356: 3353: 3350: 3347: 3344: 3338: 3333: 3328: 3325: 3322: 3319: 3316: 3310: 3305: 3300: 3297: 3294: 3291: 3288: 3282: 3277: 3276: 3275: 3269: 3266: 3260: 3259: 3256: 3254: 3250: 3246: 3244: 3233: 3231: 3229: 3225: 3221: 3217: 3210: 3208: 3204: 3200: 3196: 3185: 3177: 3172: 3169: 3166: 3161: 3158: 3154: 3150: 3149: 3145: 3141: 3133: 3129: 3125: 3120: 3119: 3118: 3117: 3113: 3108: 3103: 3083: 3079: 3075: 3070: 3069: 3068: 3064: 3059: 3053: 3049: 3048: 3047: 3043: 3039: 3035: 3034: 3033: 3029: 3024: 3019: 3015: 3011: 3007: 3004: 3000: 2996: 2995: 2994: 2993: 2992: 2991: 2990: 2989: 2982: 2978: 2974: 2970: 2966: 2963: 2959: 2956: 2955: 2954: 2953: 2952: 2951: 2945: 2941: 2936: 2931: 2927: 2924: 2920: 2916: 2915: 2914: 2910: 2906: 2905:47.156.135.10 2902: 2897: 2893: 2892: 2891: 2890: 2886: 2881: 2871: 2869: 2868: 2864: 2860: 2856: 2848: 2842: 2838: 2834: 2829: 2828: 2827: 2826: 2823: 2819: 2815: 2811: 2806: 2802: 2801: 2796: 2792: 2788: 2784: 2781: 2780: 2779: 2778: 2775: 2771: 2767: 2763: 2762: 2758: 2754: 2750: 2749: 2746: 2742: 2738: 2733: 2729: 2725: 2724: 2721: 2717: 2713: 2709: 2705: 2704: 2700: 2696: 2695: 2694: 2693: 2689: 2684: 2677: 2662: 2658: 2654: 2650: 2648: 2644: 2640: 2635: 2634: 2633: 2629: 2624: 2619: 2615: 2611: 2610: 2609: 2605: 2601: 2596: 2594: 2590: 2586: 2582: 2581: 2580: 2576: 2571: 2566: 2562: 2561: 2560: 2556: 2552: 2547: 2545: 2541: 2537: 2533: 2532: 2531: 2527: 2522: 2517: 2514: 2513: 2512: 2511: 2507: 2503: 2493: 2489: 2485: 2480: 2479: 2478: 2474: 2470: 2466: 2465:our own chart 2462: 2461: 2460: 2459: 2455: 2451: 2446: 2442: 2438: 2427: 2423: 2419: 2415: 2413: 2409: 2405: 2400: 2399: 2398: 2394: 2389: 2384: 2380: 2376: 2372: 2368: 2367: 2366: 2362: 2358: 2353: 2349: 2345: 2341: 2336: 2335: 2334: 2333: 2326: 2322: 2318: 2313: 2312: 2311: 2310: 2309: 2308: 2302: 2298: 2294: 2290: 2283: 2282: 2281: 2280: 2277: 2273: 2268: 2262: 2258: 2254: 2249: 2248: 2247: 2246: 2242: 2238: 2233: 2230: 2225: 2217: 2213: 2211: 2210: 2206: 2202: 2198: 2191: 2188: 2187: 2186: 2180: 2178: 2176: 2172: 2168: 2164: 2160: 2150: 2148: 2147: 2144: 2135: 2131: 2126: 2117: 2113: 2109: 2101: 2092: 2091: 2090: 2089: 2085: 2081: 2077: 2073: 2058: 2055:parameter to 2046: 2042: 2038: 2031: 2030: 2024: 2013: 2009: 2005: 2001: 1994: 1990: 1986: 1982: 1978: 1974: 1970: 1966: 1965: 1964: 1960: 1956: 1949: 1945: 1944: 1942: 1938: 1934: 1930: 1925: 1924: 1923: 1922: 1916: 1912: 1908: 1904: 1900: 1896: 1892: 1888: 1884: 1880: 1876: 1872: 1871:1914年《中华民国约法》 1868: 1864: 1860: 1856: 1852: 1851:1912年《清室退位诏书》 1848: 1844: 1840: 1836: 1832: 1828: 1824: 1820: 1816: 1815: 1814: 1810: 1806: 1802: 1801: 1800: 1798: 1794: 1790: 1786: 1780: 1778: 1774: 1770: 1766: 1762: 1758: 1754: 1750: 1746: 1742: 1737: 1735: 1731: 1727: 1723: 1719: 1715: 1714:Taiwan island 1711: 1706: 1704: 1703: 1694: 1690: 1686: 1682: 1678: 1677: 1676: 1674: 1669: 1665: 1661: 1657: 1653: 1649: 1645: 1641: 1636: 1634: 1630: 1626: 1622: 1618: 1614: 1610: 1606: 1602: 1597: 1595: 1591: 1587: 1583: 1576: 1572: 1568: 1563: 1562:WP:COMMONNAME 1558: 1557: 1556: 1555: 1551: 1546: 1541: 1537: 1533: 1525: 1522: 1518: 1515: 1511: 1510: 1509: 1503: 1499: 1494: 1483: 1476: 1472: 1468: 1464: 1461: 1460: 1459: 1458: 1454: 1450: 1442: 1439: 1436: 1433: 1430: 1427: 1426: 1425: 1411: 1407: 1403: 1399: 1398: 1397: 1396: 1395: 1391: 1387: 1383: 1382: 1381: 1377: 1372: 1367: 1365: 1361: 1357: 1353: 1349: 1345: 1341: 1340: 1339: 1335: 1331: 1326: 1321: 1320: 1319: 1318: 1314: 1310: 1306: 1299: 1297: 1291: 1288: 1286: 1284: 1278: 1275: 1273: 1271: 1265: 1262: 1261: 1260: 1258: 1254: 1246: 1244: 1243: 1239: 1235: 1234:Fyunck(click) 1226: 1224: 1223: 1219: 1215: 1210: 1205: 1204: 1200: 1196: 1191: 1187: 1183: 1180:Not sure why 1175: 1170: 1168: 1163: 1158: 1153: 1152: 1145: 1141: 1137: 1133: 1127: 1126: 1125: 1121: 1117: 1116:Fyunck(click) 1112: 1111: 1110: 1108: 1104: 1100: 1096: 1090: 1086: 1082: 1078: 1074: 1070: 1066: 1062: 1061:Fyunck(click) 1055: 1051: 1047: 1042: 1041: 1040: 1038: 1034: 1030: 1026: 1020: 1016: 1012: 1008: 1004: 1000: 996: 988: 984: 980: 976: 972: 969: 967: 963: 959: 955: 951: 946: 942: 939: 937: 933: 929: 925: 922: 920: 917: 912: 911: 904: 901: 899: 895: 891: 887: 883: 879: 875: 872: 870: 866: 862: 861:In ictu oculi 859: 856: 855: 842: 838: 834: 829: 828: 827: 823: 819: 818:Fyunck(click) 814: 813: 812: 808: 804: 799: 798: 797: 793: 788: 783: 779: 778: 777: 776: 775: 774: 769: 765: 761: 757: 756: 749: 745: 741: 740: 739: 735: 730: 725: 721: 718: 717: 708: 704: 700: 699:Fyunck(click) 696: 695: 694: 690: 686: 682: 678: 677: 676: 672: 668: 667:Fyunck(click) 665: 663: 659: 655: 654: 653: 652: 649: 645: 641: 640:Fyunck(click) 637: 634: 633: 632: 631: 627: 623: 619: 615: 611: 607: 602: 597: 592: 591: 587: 583: 579: 572: 570: 565: 560: 555: 554: 549: 544: 542: 537: 532: 527: 526: 522: 518: 514: 510: 506: 503: 499: 495: 490: 488: 484: 478: 477: 473: 467: 463: 459: 455: 451: 450:John Fairbank 447: 446: 442: 441: 440: 439: 436: 432: 428: 427: 422: 419: 418: 413: 409: 405: 401: 396: 395: 394: 393: 390: 386: 382: 378: 374: 370: 367: 366: 359: 355: 351: 347: 343: 342: 341: 340: 339: 338: 333: 329: 325: 321: 318: 317: 316: 312: 308: 304: 300: 296: 292: 289: 287: 283: 279: 275: 271: 267: 263: 260: 256: 255: 250: 249:WP:COMMONNAME 246: 242: 239: 237: 233: 228: 223: 219: 216: 215: 212: 210: 206: 198: 194:*'''Oppose''' 192: 186: 183: 182: 178: 176: 174: 170: 166: 161: 159: 155: 151: 147: 143: 142:WP:COMMONNAME 137: 133: 127: 126: 122: 118: 114: 107: 105: 100: 95: 90: 89: 84: 78: 75: 72: 68: 66: 63: 61: 58: 57: 49: 45: 41: 40: 35: 28: 27: 19: 4630: 4576:could work? 4573: 4569: 4547: 4543: 4527: 4517: 4497: 4487: 4483: 4481: 4459: 4453: 4433: 4422:Donald Trung 4414:Zh-wiki link 4407: 4387: 4386: 4237: 4224: 4220: 4179: 4163: 4162: 4045: 4022: 4012: 3999: 3997: 3986: 3984: 3935: 3931: 3927: 3923: 3907: 3882: 3878: 3874: 3840: 3822: 3811: 3803: 3781: 3759: 3729: 3725: 3708: 3700: 3696: 3692: 3687: 3683: 3679: 3675: 3629: 3627: 3620: 3614: 3607: 3604: 3595: 3592: 3578: 3570: 3568: 3500: 3462: 3458: 3454: 3449: 3445: 3441: 3416: 3409: 3406: 3397: 3379: 3373: 3351: 3345: 3323: 3317: 3295: 3289: 3273: 3264: 3261: 3247: 3240: 3214:— Preceding 3211: 3193:— Preceding 3189: 3186:Disputed Tag 3171: 3160: 3152: 3136: 3098: 2875: 2852: 2810:User:RitKill 2727: 2707: 2698: 2678: 2675: 2613: 2515: 2498: 2440: 2434: 2287:— Preceding 2237:1.55.196.214 2234: 2228: 2221: 2194: 2184: 2157:— Preceding 2154: 2139: 2111: 2099: 2064: 2056: 2041:edit request 1998:— Preceding 1993:Qing dynasty 1989:Qing dynasty 1947: 1927:— Preceding 1839:Qing dynasty 1819:Qing dynasty 1783:— Preceding 1781: 1738: 1729: 1709: 1707: 1700: 1698: 1637: 1598: 1579: 1529: 1520: 1513: 1507: 1470: 1446: 1422: 1356:Donald Trung 1351: 1302: 1290:Zhu Xingyuan 1250: 1230: 1211: 1206: 1195:Donald Trung 1179: 1161: 1154: 1130:— Preceding 1093:— Preceding 1058: 1023:— Preceding 992: 970: 940: 923: 906: 903:Oppose move. 902: 873: 857: 752: 719: 657: 656: 635: 594: 577: 575: 563: 556: 535: 528: 479: 444: 424: 420: 399: 375:was born in 368: 290: 266:Google books 258: 252: 240: 217: 202: 196: 190: 184: 150:Nazi Germany 139: 129: 112: 110: 98: 91: 70: 43: 37: 4529:Natureindex 4263:) has made 4072:) has made 3802:In the map 1753:Taiwan area 1471:no citation 1167:move review 1091:the island. 1019:Talk:Taiwan 1011:Talk:Taiwan 569:move review 541:move review 400:customarily 373:Frank Hsieh 104:move review 36:This is an 4404:Currencies 4305:Matt Smith 4284:Matthew hk 4145:Matt Smith 4125:Edo period 4101:Matthew hk 3969:Matthew hk 3908:"de facto" 3861:Matthew hk 3827:Matthew hk 3789:Matthew hk 3778:Discussion 3730:status quo 3678:: The map 3657:Matthew hk 3536:Matthew hk 3486:Matthew hk 3427:Matthew hk 3153:References 2833:Matthew hk 2285:article. 2264:claimed.-- 2049:|answered= 1720:back from 1540:this state 1473:for this. 1285:, in 1912. 1015:Amitie 10g 999:Amitie 10g 979:government 474:Discussion 295:this ngram 245:WP:NATURAL 4461:subject." 4456:WP:BIASED 4326:articles. 4202:restored. 3638:Manchukuo 3623:|alt_map= 3505:|alt_map= 3474:|alt_map= 3419:|alt_map= 3074:Kiralexis 3018:Macedonia 3014:Macedonia 2699:different 2441:retreated 2340:Kiralexis 2317:Kiralexis 2216:East Asia 2120:Caradhras 1948:Qingshilu 1654:moved to 1635:in 1992. 1488:Caradhras 1437:(infobox) 1182:this edit 981:moved to 381:Timmyshin 77:Archive 4 71:Archive 3 65:Archive 2 60:Archive 1 4679:Khajidha 4340:WP:FAITH 4261:contribs 4085:, while 4070:contribs 3932:de facto 3924:de facto 3912:Mongolia 3873:The map 3823:de facto 3642:Mongolia 3401:contribs 3377:contribs 3349:contribs 3321:contribs 3293:contribs 3216:unsigned 3195:unsigned 2814:Harfarhs 2289:unsigned 2171:contribs 2159:unsigned 2100:Not done 2000:unsigned 1985:Xinjiang 1929:unsigned 1905:." 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