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in this article, goes back to the
Sophists. However, this ignores the caveat that it involves âfigures of speech and other compositional techniquesâ that manipulate the audience regardless of the accuracy of the information. Socrates showed another way of presenting information, not using the techniques of rhetoric, based primarily on asking questions, causing people to see what they donât know about the assumptions they are making, a way which frequently leads people to refer to sources, judge their accuracy, and generally reach more accurate conclusions. Many other ways of presenting information that generally lead to more accurate understanding than the tools of rhetoric have been developed since. Such ways have persuaded a large number of people of information that is generally accurate, as opposed to techniques that persuade people regardless of the accuracy of the information.
869:"Rhetoric (/ËrÉtÉrÉŞk/) is the art of persuasion" (the lead phrase of this article) is inaccurate. It misses the caveat that rhetoric is based on "use of figures of speech and other compositional techniques." The article says that rhetoric is the way to bring communities together based on common understanding. Yet it is certainly not the only such way. For example there is the way Socrates used simple questions, not figures of speech, to bring understanding based on accurate information. These days Socrates may be remembered by the way he lost his life, but people aware of the history understand that Socrates had a huge impact on his community, bringing the community to an effort for more accurate understanding, lasting through his students and their students, and even to today.
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you are. Therefore, the burden of proof is on you. I am reverting the change because it does not fit the introduction. I do agree with you that somewhere in the article it should include what you say: Rhetoric is a lot about teaching. This is also true, however, as you mention yourself, the right section is in the "course of study" section.
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Rhetoric itself has made a comeback in the last few decades. A number of political and other movements put a lot of effort into convincing their followers and others of information that the leaders are aware is inaccurate. These movements have been studying and teaching rhetoric to their members on a
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When I read this article I was stunned that this content would be in
Knowledge, instead of an advertisement for a course on rhetoric somewhere. Almost every single paragraph in the article is affected by the inaccurate lead definition. To be accurate, the whole thing would need to be rewritten, with
824:
From Google of ârhetoricâ: Definitions from Oxford
Languages ¡ rhet¡o¡ric the art of effective or persuasive speaking or writing, especially the use of figures of speech and other compositional techniques. "he is using a common figure of rhetoric, hyperbole" language designed to have a persuasive or
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Thanks for giving an explanation in the talk page. First of all, it is important to make some things clear. You are the one proposing the change, not me, so it is up to you to justify it. I am reverting to the previous accepted version. In other words, I am not the one that keeps proposing changes,
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The term has since ancient times connoted a powerful argument whose power is based on mental manipulation of the audience, not an argument based on providing accurate and well referenced information. The idea that rhetoric is defined as âthe way to persuade someone of somethingâ, as it is presented
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accurately evaluating techniques that do not. Perhaps someone else interested in such would hear my little cry for reason in the wilderness of the internet, someone more involved with
Knowledge, and fight the slow erosion of reason and accurate dissemination of information this article represents.
981:
The reference that you use is not really suitable for the introduction. It is a report from a conference on pedagogy, so obviously, they are talking about rhetoric in the context of education. It has been cited 13 times in 14 years, since 2009, so not much. On the other hand, the understanding of
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suggests, since one already exists, cf. "As a course of study". what is needed is some recognition, at the beginning of the article, that the training of speakers and writers is distinctive and central to rhetoric. my edit corrects this problem: "Rhetoric trains writers and speakers to inform,
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This article itself appears to be such a whitewash of rhetoric. However, I know I could not personally affect it due to the politics of
Knowledge page editing. Yet, I would hope I am not the last person on earth interested in accuracy of information, and disseminating ways for increasing it, and
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The paragraph could be as follows: "Rhetoric is also an educational approach that teaches writers and speakers how to inform, persuade, or motivate particular audiences in specific situations. From
Ancient Greece to the late 19th century, rhetoric played a central role in Western education in
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is referring to the term rhetoric as the use of tricks to persuade even if them render the discourse insincere and false. This interpretation is the layman interpretation of rhetoric; it is a common interpretation, yes, but it is not encyclopedic. Rhetoric theory is the study of how ideas are
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PS. Knowledge is not an edit war. You could add a sentence at the end of the introduction that mentions that "a very important aspect of rhetoric is its role in education." I am fine with that, but do not change the second sentence, because it changes the meaning of the full article.
1019:, to teach their students how to think correctly, discern arguments, and thus become better citizens. In addition, educators can also to teach speakers how to convey their arguments clearly. Therefore, education is an outcome of the understanding of rhetoric.
923:
Keeps changing the article to emphasise that rhetoric is about teaching. It is not. Teaching is just an application of rhetoric. If the user wants to explain the use of rhetoric in teaching, then why not propose a new section with correct references?
947:
about teaching. the problem is that rhetoric has always been about teaching, from its very beginnings in Athens in the 5th century BC to today. ive included the following source in the notes to reflect this central and distinctive feature of
1131:
This talk page is very long and many discussions appear to be closed. Could someone start an archive for this talk page? I have attempted to do so (check the source edit), but my skills are not up to the task to complete this action.
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The article talks about the different orators in the West from Cicero on, but not how the study grew or decayed from the
Classical world to the Medieval and so on. It just lists the authors and their works in a vacuum.
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large scale, to the point where they are whitewashing rhetoric itself, silently dismissing that rhetorical techniques are âoften regarded as lacking in sincerity or meaningful content.â
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To be super clear, the problem is that the sentence "Rhetoric trains writers and speakers..." is factually incorrect. Rhetoric is not a person. Teachers use rhetoric,
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on
Knowledge. If you would like to support the project, please visit the project page, where you can get more details on how you can help, and where you can join the
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interested in improving
Knowledge's coverage of content related to the fields of rhetoric, composition, technical communication, literacy, and language studies.
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Hauser, G. A. (2004). Teaching
Rhetoric: Or Why Rhetoric Isnât Just Another Kind of Philosophy or Literary Criticism. Rhetoric Society Quarterly, 34(3), 39â53.
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impressive effect on its audience, but often regarded as lacking in sincerity or meaningful content. "all we have from the Opposition is empty rhetoric"
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The definition of "whitewashing" is not relevant except perhaps in some small paragraph about the current activities regarding rhetoric.
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986:(Perelman, 1971) has been cited 7151 times in Google Scholar. It has become the main interpretation, or in Knowledge's terms: It is
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better sources, and I am not familiar with Knowledge enough to even approach such a task, or even know how it would be done.
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If the editor wants to add a section of how the term rhetoric is used in everyday language, please, propose it.
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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I propose the following solution. At the end of the introduction there is a paragraph that fits.
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Googling things, and adding dictionary definitions is insufficient. For instance, the editor @
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If you define "whitewashing" and outline what you wish to change, then changes may be made.
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rhetoric as a theory for understanding, discovering, and developing arguments
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training orators, lawyers, counsellors, historians, statesmen, and poets."
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substantiated and communicated through composition, forms, functions, etc.
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there is no need to propose a new section on rhetoric in teaching as @
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persuade, or motivate particular audiences in specific situations."
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Perelman, Chaim. The new rhetoric. Springer Netherlands, 1971.
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I'm not sure what you mean. I checked it and it does link to
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their knowledge of how argumentation and persuasion works
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keeps changing the article to emphasize that rhetoric is
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This entire article does not accurately reflect the term
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