Talk:Water/Archive 1

676:: The article's organization seems very focused on chemistry. I think that someone with no chemistry background would get through the introductory paragraphs of the article, and then founder on "Forms of Water". The chemical information is definitely important, but I think that there's a lot more that can be said -- I think information about the ecology, biology, etc. might want to go first. I think that you should split the "Properties of Water" section -- some of the basic information would be appropriate at the beginning of the article, but things like electrolysis, the Mpemba effect, and other chemistry-specific information would be better later. Also, I think that having one of the photographs at the beginning of the article, and pushing the box of chemical information farther down the page, would make the article easier to read. Basically, remember that many of the people reading the article aren't going to be physicists or chemists; technical information that most readers won't be interested in should be sectioned off, or even put into its own article ( 582:. What does it mean? Could you add more information onto the actual image itself? Could we also fix up the 1 sentence paragraphs? Some of the paragraphs could be fleshed out, say for instance "The Mpemba effect is the surprising phenomenon whereby hot water can, under certain conditions, freeze faster than cold, even though it must pass the lower temperature on the way to freezing." - give a bit more info (not the entire article it references, just some more info to make it more complete). Also, the history seems tacked on as an afterthought. I mean, there's water-: --> 631:--until the following fixes are made. 1) The Mpemba effect does not belong in the "Water properties" section--because it is not clear what water property causes the Mremba effect. Perhaps you should move the Mpemba effect to a section "Oddities about water." 2) What do you mean by "Water in practice"? This heading sounds like "Communism in practice" as compared with "Communism in theory." Come up with a better heading, please--Maybe something like "Water in everyday affairs." 3) The 1332:. The possibility that an observer's interpretation of their observations is based on incorrect assumptions is irrelevant to their existence. If a reasonable observer does, in fact, observe their interpretation is flawed, they will discard assumptions which have been demonstrated to be incorrect. An unreasonable observer will discard the observation as spurious. Neither has any inherent interest in knowing in advance whether they will make a contradictory observation. 1399:. One can verify the truth of a hypothesis without needing to know whether it could be proven false with other knowledge. One can also act on the discovery that a hypothesis is false without prior awareness that it could have been false (and, at that point, "falsifiable" becomes a truism anyway). There is no particular reason one might need to know whether something can be proven true or proven false; one must only be able to state conditions which are 31: 1758:-- "Absorption is mainly caused by three different atmospheric gases. Contrary to popular belief, water vapor causes the most absorption, followed by carbon dioxide and then ozone." I also know that carbon dioxide is orders of magnitude less absorptive because it only has a dipole moment when one of its degrees of freedom is excited, where as water has a dipole moment always. 664:

sections from personal data toward Universal data to give the following order: Forms of water, Water properties, Water in life, Drinking water and politics, Domestic and industrial use of water, Water on earth, Water in the universe. I like the potential of this article, and I think you have done a marvelous job of making this a very interesting page. Congratulations! ---

1712:

compounds -- N2, O2, CO, N20... none of these have dipole moments, and have very low absorptivity in infared bands. If you want to learn about this, look up my reference which should be available in your local library. Page 48 shows a nice graph of absobtivity of atmospheric compounds as a function of wavelength.

840:

There have been several conflicting edits on fine-tuning and anthropic principle. I believe that all edits have a bit of truth, and that keeping only one explanation to the unusual property of life is NPOV. Shouldn't we have one short paragraph briefly explaining the various answers as explained in

639:

page. Take it off. The special properties of water apply to all lifeforms--not to just to anthropoi men. 4) The content of "Systematic Nomenclature and Humor" has nothing to do with the Physics and Chemistry of Water. So you might move it to "Oddities about water." 5) Fire, air, earth, and water

332:

Ok, maybe I'm just in fanatical-cut mode, but I also don't think Knowledge should be in the buisiness of prescribing certain behaviors and admonishing others. I think the warnings should be reworked to simply present the facts preferably in the main body of the article. And the alcohol warning should

140:

We would need the force per area that melts water at skating temperatures; even if the force is large, the small area of the skate could do the trick. Also, the Teflon skating seems to work completely differently, since no melting is involved. It would be more interesting to know if it is possible to

118:

I think the sentence is correct. The reason that ice is slippery without skates is that you press on it; the reason that it's more slippery with skates is that the pressure is higher. Cement is not liquified by the body's pressure, so you can't skate on it: normally, pressure increases the frictional

109:

I don't think this is actually true: it is a common instance of folk-science. Consider, ice is still very slippery even if you're not wearing skates. Also, it's possible to "skate" with ice skates, or shoes, along cement (though quite a bit more difficult because of friction). I certainly agree that

1711:

Well feel free to edit my emphasis. But no, opacity to infared light is *the* mechanism of the greenhouse effect. And no, not very many compounds in the atmosphere *absorb* (not "block" -- energy is absorbed) infared, precisely because they have no dipole moment. If you look at common atmospheric

1641:

in the universe. Living organisms evolved with and fine-tuned themselves to utilize all the neat physical properties of their environment. Yes, extremophiles fine tuned themselves through evolution to adapt to and utilize some pretty bizzare environments where they had little competition. They still

476:

I think this split & rewrite just made things more confusing. Many parts of the orig version need to be included in both of the new splinters - and quite a bit is in the wrong place. My first impulse was a quick revert, but maybe we need to discuss it - as would have been appreciated before this

404:

I forget the terms as it was a long time ago, but should there not be details on the thermal properties of water here - heat needed to raise 1 kg by 1 degree C (or whatever), and also that needed to change phase (solid-liquid, liquid-gas) ? A note on the definition of the calorie/Calorie may also be

361:

What's the bond angle of water? Would it be appropriate to put a 3D model of H20 on this page? I'm just playing around with POV-ray modeler and I was trying to make a molecule using the "blob" feature. But then I needed to know the bond angle of H20. That brought me here, and then I had the idea

1671:

This is incorrect. Water accounts for nearly all of the atmospheric greenhouse effect despite the fact that it is a trace element in the atmosphere. The reason is that it is largely transparent to visible light, but readily absorbs outgoing infared radiation. I cite /Global Physical Climatology/

1366:

Nonsense. A scientific theory or hypothesis is worthless if it cannot be tested. It must make predictions that can be tested, in other words - falsifiable - there must be a way to check its validity, to see if it is error. Other scientists must be able to either reproduce the results or falsify the

594:

Woops ! Somehow I lost your feedback in peer review. Sorry for that. I think that some of your objections have been fixed. Still working on the others... About "expanding 1-sentence paragraph": I'm afraid that the article would be much too long if we did that. It's already quite long as it is.

433:

A pressure-temperature chart showing the regions where water is in each state would be awesome, and make the triple point discussion more obvious. The colour could even add some extra info, such as density. Does anyone have relevent formulas that could be used to produce such a graph, if not such a

450:

This short note by itself would seem to imply that the Arctic Ocean should be frozen solid top to bottom! We need to include a bit here about salts "freezing out" as salt water freezes. The resulting ice is less salty and less dense than the salt water it freezes from. I'm not familiar enough with

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Well, the criticism is partially wrong. True, you need more than pressure to liquify ice. I guess is has more to do with friction. But take head: ice skating is only possible because you liqify the ice under your skates. At about -40 celzius, you can't do that any longer, and skating becomes very

663:

Perhaps you should retitle this section as "Water in early philosophy." 5) The order of the First section (which I will call "Water in everyday affairs") does not make sense; the sections are disarranged, with no logical order. Perhaps you could reorder this section to fix it by sequencing the

485:

I disagree with the rewrite altogether. The chemical properties of water are very closely tied to our daily experiences with it, and the text went out of its way to discuss these ties. Just because you're not a chemist doesn't mean you don't care why the lakes don't freeze solid, why salty water

265:

You are assuming constant pressure across the area of the blade. If the skater's weight is not evenly distributed, perhaps it's conceivable that you could routinely get 50 times the pressure you calculated. Also, hockey skates are concave, so only the two outer edges are ever in contact, which

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for anything. That would imply a tuner out there somewhere - an unknowable. The Universe is as it is. Life in the Universe has developed and evolved in and with the conditions of the Universe and has therefore tuned itself by evolution to the specific characteristics of the Universe that simply

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to put a 3D picture of H20 on this webpage. If I can think of a consistent way to translate empirical bond length/bond angle stuff into a 3D picture then that would be cool. Although there are speciliazed programs which can do this already, like RASMOL, but POV-ray code seems so damn simple.

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along the lines of what was mentioned earlier... but clicking on "Potable" in the article (something like "water that is fit for human consumption is called potable") links to this article... that seems kind-of not helpful, but I really don't know what else should go in the potable article...

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page, where the candidacy was mostly opposed. The consensus was that the page was confusing as it was, and no satisfactory structure had been found. It seemed that the only way out was to clearly distinguish "water for life" and "water (molecule)". I believe that these are 2 very different

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of pressure to melt ice at temperatures routinely skated at, so that's not what makes skating "possible". There's actually not much good research in this area, but the best prospects so far include a phenomenon known as "surface melting" where the atoms at the surface of a solid behave in

1154:

Essentially, one's observed universe is "fine-tuned" for one state -- exactly that state which is observed -- to the exclusion of all other possible tunings. It is unnecessary to refer to any specific properties of the universe; all other formulations of this idea concern the same set of

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be a feature article, but at the moment it shows strong signs of committee editing. Too much of the information is in short single fact sentences. To be considered best writing, many of these factoids should be grouped together and discussed in a more flowing style. I agree with many of

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ice will phase transition to a liquid under higher pressure, evidenced by the negative slope of its phase boundary curve. I think the bit about ice skating should go, perhaps even replaced by a note to dispell this myth. More data also welcome, as I'm not completely positive.

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Hmmm... better, but I still object to one sentence paragraphs - doesn't look that professional. But not too bad. Seems there are a few more objections we could work on though. Now that I'm not concentrating on my exploding whale story so much, I can look into this story. -

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concepts: drinking water, and pure water. (sorry for the lack of advanced warning in this talk page. I'll learn to be more careful in the future) . Please consider that this is work in progress: feel free to move things from one page to the other, or rework as you wish.

1968:." I'm tempted to delete it, but I'm worried someone's attached to this idea. In particular, I'm confused by the sentence "It has been proposed that life itself..." what is "life"? Last time I checked it was a condition that things are in, not an entitiy in and of itself. 333:

really go under "Alcohol" not "Water" IMHO. I propose that the warnings should instead be dropped: consider if we started putting in things like "Do not use water on a metal fire" "Do not try to breathe water" All these are true, but Knowledge is not an MSDS database.

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theory if they cannot. Einstein’s relativity theory has been tested repeatedly on various points. It is a scientific theory because it makes predictions that can be and have been tested. But, then I gather from your responses that you really do not know what

1049:. Facts, except perhaps the most trivial kind, are subject to re-interpretation and re-measurement by more sophisticated instruments. The facts can and do change with new interpretations based on new theories and explanations undreamed of in previous times. - 304:

Why is this whole section here? Seems like it should be under "Desert Survival" or "Construction of a Still" not "Water". And I don't think Knowledge should be a repository for how-to-build-it's either, but that's just me. I'm voting to remove this section.

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page, and it has some info on the relative absoptive effects of the various greenhouse gasses. It's not a very complete explaination -- it turns out that it matters specifically *what* type of radiation water absorbs -- but the gross picture is there. --

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What I mean is, an observation has a definite existence, regardless of our interpretations. Someone who observes the sky to be blue will always have that observation in their history. It is true that they observed a blue sky. --] 17:13, 11 Nov 2004

926:; they can only support it, and either may be irrelevant to the idea. They can be expressed scientifically, and frequently are, and they're "unfalsifiable" because they are true. You're certainly free to try living in a universe with different 776:

section is rather poor. Could be good to merge the religion and early philosophy subsections, along with various views on water as a life force. Similarly should discuss spiritual associations attributed to rivers and springs. E.g.

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are invariant truths for all observers. It makes no more difference whether one believes in them, than whether one believes in one's own existence. Each observer can verify the statements' truth by carefully conducting

1946:

When you place water in a beaker, the water around the inside edge rises up to a higher level, due to presumably being attracted to the beaker. This can be seen in the article on beakers. Does this effect have a name?

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Yes, well, observed facts are inherently true. Science is only concerned by why particular observations occur, not by whether the observations themselves have occurred. It cannot change the facts, only interpret

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One has to remember, that ultimately its chemical properties allow for the rest of its benefits, so I think we should do as always the standard format: one main water article, then branch off into subarticles. --

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should be mentioned in relation to the properties of water around 4°C. The problem is that too much of the rest of the article focuses on extraterrestial water. In particular, way too much in the lead section.

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Water in religion... get my drift? Otherwise, this is a really well researched, well-written article! I would be happy to support it if you can sort out these things (especially a structural organisation). -

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Data from CRC, 77th ed. : water: ice I - liquid phase boundary: { pressure (MPa), melting point (°C) } : {0.1,0.00}, {1.,-0.06}, {2.,-0.14}, ... {50.,-4.02}, ... {100.,-8.80}, ... {150, -14.40}, ... {200,

1958:

What does this mean? "It has been proposed that life itself may maintain the conditions that have allowed its continued existence. The surface temperature of Earth has been relatively constant through

1929:

It seems now that we need to decide which version constitutes the first major contribution. Failing that, we could always try to reword some passages so that they need not favor any dialect of English.

492:

While I'm not suggesting an outright revert, I do suggest that we revert and that anything the new editor added be merged into the reverted article. I'd like to hear the editor's voice on this though.

1835:

i havent edited this page before, so before i rush in and do something ill run it pass you all, in case there is some consensus about it that i dont know of. What do people think of the table on the

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In the dutch wikipedia the article on potable water contains info on dutch regulations on drinking water, in addition, the history of the devolpment of drinking water might be added in future.

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Knowledge is an encyclopedy, not a scientific compendium. It contains many philosophical or religious articles. I do not see why such issues would have to be removed from a "water" article.

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Is this truly a misconception or exploitation? That is, couldn't the advertised purity refer to freedom from added harmful substances, without instrinically meaning freedom from

1683:

light isn't particularly notable, is it? Lots of compounds block that. Is water unusually opaque to infrared for its transparency to visible light? --] 06:51, 6 Nov 2004 (UTC)

1807:. Electric dipole moment may be related to dielectric constant in some tricky ways, but it is not really relevant here (that I can see offhand). Also, I took a look at the 941:; the coincidence of Earth being where it is gives it conditions suitable for biological processes; and the aberrant behavior of water makes it especially conducive to life. 2032:

About 120 crores of people (20%of the global population) spread across 40 countries do not have access to safe water;240 crores of people lack adequate senitation srvice

1621:, and if that was the intent, it is backwards. The properties of water appear fine-tuned for the development of life; life is not necessarily fine-tuned for water (see 1962:

despite varying solar flux, indicating that a dynamic process governs Earth's temperature via a combination of greenhouse gases and surface or atmospheric albedo. See

1637:

No - water doesn't evolve (I didn't say that) - living things do. And they did evolve to utilize the many neat properties of water. This is an exact understanding of

448:"Note that this effect only applies to fresh water: sea water contains sufficient salt that the density minimum occurs at the freezing point (approximately -1.9 oC)." 273:

I think a more important assumption missed is that ice skates are razor sharp, which allows for a much smaller contact area, resulting in a much higher pressure.

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the technical page that was split off this a month or so ago. It has that table - which used to be here. Seems someone thought it was too long so it was split. -

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nature, nor even necessary (despite its prevalence). One might easily imagine dust clouds which reflect, rather than trap, heat. --] 05:52, 6 Nov 2004 (UTC)

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as it vibrates. For example, carbon dioxide does not have a dipole at rest, but some of its vibrational modes give it a dipole that fluctuates about zero.

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skate on materials with comparable melting point to water, but which do not show the pressure-melting point relationship of water. Frozen hexane, maybe?

619:: Very good article. I just re-arranged a bit, joke section & religion - hopefully an improvement. Always work to be done, red links ... etc. -- 523:

I withdraw my objections. This seems like it was a pretty good move, as long as there's a prominent link for people with more chemistry background.

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It is, however, worth noting that water is necessary to our existence. Thus, we can also make stronger statements about the fine-tuned universe.

755:

Talking of showers, there is almost no mention of the use of water for washing and cleaning, except in the religion section. That's a little off.

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I would be interested in seeing this article expand to incorporate a discussion of the origin of water. I recently came across a statement by

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They not really related. I'd be happy to explain to you the general message on IRC or E-mail. The short answer is that it has to do with

1575:

It jumps to the conclusion that cells compete for resources, and that competition at the cellular level is the basis for natural selection.

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In the case of the anthropic principle, a sufficient condition for its truth is the fact that we observe the universe. One might say that

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Many bottled water companies exploit another common misconception, advertising both purity and taste, even though pure water is tasteless.

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Many bottled water companies exploit another common misconception, advertising both purity and taste, even though pure water is tasteless.

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There have been recent edits switching back and forth between American and British spellings, esp. color/colour and odor/odour. Comments:

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Of course, if you put in all these ideas, someone would say the article is too long and it has already had various sections split out. --

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Failing to decide on whether we use American or British style can result in a lot of back and forth edits to no real purpose. Guidance:

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This is the conclusion of the section; in what ways has life fine-tuned itself to water? The preceding paragraphs do not discuss that.

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The water dipoles hydrogen bond to the dipolar regions of the sugar molecule and allow it to be carried away into solution. "HELL YEAH"

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liquid-like ways, regardless of the temperature and pressure; and possibly some heating of the ice by the friction of the blade. One

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So... somebody should probably translate the Dutch article (and probably put some regs from other countries in as well), yes? --

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Often the word is used to disguise the fact that a proposition is really just a half-truth or an opinion, especially in rhetoric.

489:

More controversially, I think a featured article candidate should see only relatively small changes until after it's featured.

567:(self-nomination) This article covers a lot of ground (or should I say "water" ?), and anybody can learn something from it. 127:

Nope, the sentence above is quite false. It's true that pressure does decrease the melting point of ice, but it would take

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Policy dictates that the first major contributor's spelling should be the preferred style of English. I would consider

1037:. Observed facts are our current interpretations of our sensory perceptions or our instrumental measurements of those 156:

Data from www.angelfire.com/sd/scsa/scsa.html : speed skates : dimensions { width, 1.1-1.4mm }, { length, 330-457mm }

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I thought it was a good presentation, but I'm a chemistry teacher. I think a discussion of this would be good in a

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means. If a source exists, then cite it, clean-up the wording and re-insert in the proper location in the article.

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OK, then put it in human culture or a Philosophy & Religion section. But, not in the main descriptive sections.

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The idea that falsifiability is somehow necessary to the scientific method is an unfortunate but widespread error.

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There is exactly one set containing every observation we have made or will make, in sequential subjective order.

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Also, could some one explain to me why the following sentence was "not making sense", and therefore removed ?

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to be the first major contribution, which would favor American English, but a case could also be made for

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about a finding by NASA and the University of Hawaii in 1997 that ALL water originally came from comets.

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Procedural information has its place in Knowledge, but I agree that it's out of place in this article.

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a significant part of natural selection, the connection probably deserves more than a single sentence.

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The argument that evolution is required for life belongs in a different article; why imply that here?

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Are you sure the word is borrowed from Low German, isn't Old English wæter a more plausible origin?

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Therefore the anthropic principle is your own fault, so don't complain. --] 06:41, 6 Nov 2004 (UTC)

578:: none of my suggestions were even commented on in peer review. Specifically, I'm confused with the 153:

Data from www.ice-rinks.com/FAQ.htm : ice temperature { hockey, -8.8°C }, { figure skating, -3.3°C }

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I must be the only that finds this anon's enthusiasm about aqueous solutions amusing, right? --

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I put back in -- makes sense to me. However, it may need a tie in sentence for clarification.--

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both refute the idea that "falsifiability" means anything at all. --] 19:59, 8 Nov 2004 (UTC)

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Since water is necessary for our existence, the set containing our history must contain water.

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tough. If not for that effect, Scott's mision to the south pole might have came back alive.

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Cool! I sometimes miss these things, message me on the talk page when you do. Please :-) -

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Well it is partly true, I have noticed that some brands taste less matalic then others. --

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Life on earth has evolved with and fine tuned itself to the important features of water.

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Furthermore, pressure applied to ice will liquefy it, which makes ice skating possible.

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Question: maybe post myth-dispelling math somehwere (and find non (C) source for data?)

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the details to feel qualified to edit it until I have time to delve deeper into it. --

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Or the discussion of "desert survival" should be shifted to an article on the topic.

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force, but in the case of water it reduces it. But I'm also not completely positive.

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So, why would we even use the phrase - as it is indeed either a trite expression or

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Assume 65kg adult. Assume -5°C ice and ambient. Assume 1.2mm x 400mm skate blades.

2056:- Dihydrogen Monoxide Research Division, anyone? It's at least somewhat apropos. 2041: 1852: 1643: 1534: 1486: 1372: 1267: 1184: 1129: 1111:

A trite expression or idea: banality, bromide, cliché, commonplace, platitude...

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If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the

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makes the area much, much smaller, and the pressure correspondingly higher. --

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as being the first major contribution, which would favor Commonwealth English.

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08:52, 19 Sep 2004 (UTC)) Oh no I won't... its been done. Should have checked.

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Oh, I see. That's very interesting! Is water's absorption expressed by its

1128:. I say be gone with it, not worthy of an article nor any kind of argument. - 745:

A picture of an ocean, or waves crashing on a craggy shoreline would be good.

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When describing a delta, it uses delta as a plural word. Is this correct?

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It's not gonna be easy :) -- I personally see no reason for inclusion of

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The criterion for whether a molecule abosrbs infrared is not whether it

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http://www.everythingweather.com/atmospheric-radiation/absorption.shtml

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Small variations in the conditions would make our existence impossible.

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for more details ? And move any further discussion to this article ?

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are subject to sensory and instrumental error and are not inherently

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Shouldn't "Water in religion" and "Water in mythology" be merged? --

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The pictures are moving around, but I would have thought a pic or a

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I'd have to vote to move this section to a more appropriate area.

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Let us now look at some of the diffrent dimensions of this crisis.

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A truism ... had to look that up as I don’t normaly use the term.

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If we settle on British style, it should be consistent - hence

1092:, the universe must be in a state that allows us to observe it. 472:

Was this major split & rewrite needed? Maybe discuss first.

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In fact, almost any conditions would prevent us from existing.

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http://www.princeton.edu/~lehmann/BadChemistry.html#Skating

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conditions for us to exist. --] 17:01, 11 Nov 2004 (UTC)

1258:, good mental excercise. Didn't think we were discussing 218:

is possibly an alien from a parallel universe known as a

1754:

Also, you could take a look at the first hit on google:

1477:. Life without cells wouldn't be life, right ? Thanks. 1183:

is a truism. Again, be gone with the trite expression. -

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Thanks for the feedback. I'll split the article in 2 :

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Knowledge:Manual_of_Style#National_varieties_of_English

1617:

This appears to be a misunderstanding of the idea of a

1568:

This suggests that cell membranes are composed only of

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Such a statement is self-verifying and cannot be false.

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It claims natural selection is required for evolution.

1551:, their competition for resources, and the process of 1467:, their competition for resources, and the process of 996:... and they're "unfalsifiable" because they are true. 865:

and are nonscientific and unfalsifiable. Evolution is

173:-5.0°C: Human mass is vastly insufficient to melt ice. 168:

Extrapolate ice's MP from data for 1.33 MPa: ~-0.09°C.

1002:. To be scientific an hypothesis must be testable or 486:

boils hotter, or whether water conducts electricity.

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http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/miscon/miscon4.html#ice

1839:(obviously translated into english) for this page? 961:

The conditions in the universe favor our existence.

660:that were not created and will never be destroyed. 652:to explain the difference between water and wine. 1950:Nevermind, I found it, it is the cappilary effect 998:Wow! That sounds like a religeous statment to me. 503:Actually, this major rewrite was discussed in the 1155:observations. Again, this statement is a truism. 1731:a dipole moment, but whether that dipole moment 1006:. No way to test or falsify = not scientific. - 977:Our universe is weird because we're part of it. 176:Action: removing skating reference from article 2106:Isn't the last paragraph in the wrong place?-- 1696:very many times, as well as a doubly emphatic 1777:, or is that slightly different? How is its 84:Should we mention this myth in the article ? 8: 1526:How is this relevant to properties of water? 792:No mention of the recreational use of water. 1509:, separating an "inside" from an "outside". 1291:Must not all observations be observed by a 766:or anywhere else we get our water from. Or 349:on this page links to the same article as 463:08:49, 19 Sep 2004 (UTC)) OK, will do. ( 251:for a good discussion of the phenomenon. 1547:This allows the creation of individual 1266:. Different horse, different ride :-) - 1494:It's vague and makes unfounded claims: 1000:It's true: all you gotta do is believe 44:Do not edit the contents of this page. 1781:related? --] 13:15, 6 Nov 2004 (UTC) 1655:Please note that water's part in the 873:of life forms to their environment.-- 7: 1082:The anthropic principle is simply a 1692:Incidentally, you've used the word 1672:by Dennis L. Hartmann --dikaiopolis 814:. I'll resubmit to FAC when done. 446:I'm uncertain about the following: 162:Use g=9.8m/s, F=m*a, P=F/A, A=l*w. 24: 1320:is an unfortunate but widespread 165:Derive: P = m*a/(l*w) = 1.33 MPa. 80:the "ice skates liquify ice" myth 752:would be better than the shower. 560:Here is the discussion from the 429:Pressure-temperature state chart 29: 1328:survived quite well before the 1299:? --] 17:19, 11 Nov 2004 (UTC) 1166:The Universe we observe simply 930:or composition, or on a random 229:is a typical physics student : 199:Action: Get horribly confused. 2074:15:02, 27 September 2005 (UTC) 2045:00:02, 27 September 2005 (UTC) 2008:22:20, 23 September 2005 (UTC) 1700:. --] 07:03, 6 Nov 2004 (UTC) 1584:How is this relevant to water? 1434:is concerned with stating the 950:The argument, boiled down, is: 291:14:42, 27 September 2005 (UTC) 1: 2094:substances other than H20? -- 1150:to the anthropic principle. 836:Important properties for life 2111:09:26, 3 November 2005 (UTC) 1316:is somehow necessary to the 1206:--] 17:25, 11 Nov 2004 (UTC) 1088:Because we observe only the 762:, why no mention of them or 678:Chemical Properties of Water 548:13:37, 19 October 2005 (UTC) 408:Any "qualified" volunteer ? 2099:05:04, 8 October 2005 (UTC) 1990:06:47, 17 August 2005 (UTC) 1972:23:01, July 16, 2005 (UTC) 1632:--] 05:46, 6 Nov 2004 (UTC) 1505:substances can also create 1459:substances can also create 571:15:10, 18 Sep 2004 (UTC) 400:Thermal properties of Water 231:constant state of confusion 2134: 970:This universe is freaking 270:19:53, Sep 19, 2004 (UTC) 136:skate on dry Teflon, BTW. 2036:Don't have a clue what a 1843:00:37, 2004 Nov 30 (UTC) 1837:spanish article for water 1739:12:02, Mar 28, 2005 (UTC) 1481:18:24, 23 Sep 2004 (UTC) 648:was "the theory" used by 599:16:53, 18 Sep 2004 (UTC) 591:16:26, 18 Sep 2004 (UTC) 584:Mythology and water-: --> 562:Feature Article Candidate 505:feature article candidate 481:21:17, 19 Sep 2004 (UTC) 455:01:48, 19 Sep 2004 (UTC) 438:00:26, 19 Sep 2004 (UTC) 425:18:57, 14 Sep 2004 (UTC) 309:05:25 Sep 13, 2002 (UTC) 114:04:26 Sep 13, 2002 (UTC) 1855:02:23, 30 Nov 2004 (UTC) 1663:unusual, nor due to its 1489:22:14, 23 Sep 2004 (UTC) 903:16:52, 24 Sep 2004 (UTC) 888:06:47, 24 Sep 2004 (UTC) 877:22:14, 23 Sep 2004 (UTC) 829:14:00, 20 Sep 2004 (UTC) 818:16:15, 19 Sep 2004 (UTC) 810:in (everyday) life, and 801:07:56, 19 Sep 2004 (UTC) 704:14:00, 20 Sep 2004 (UTC) 693:02:10, 19 Sep 2004 (UTC) 684:01:28, 19 Sep 2004 (UTC) 668:20:28, 18 Sep 2004 (UTC) 623:16:38, 18 Sep 2004 (UTC) 607:13:57, 20 Sep 2004 (UTC) 512:06:30, 20 Sep 2004 (UTC) 496:22:40, 19 Sep 2004 (UTC) 393:19:05, 14 Sep 2004 (UTC) 382:21:07, 14 Aug 2003 (UTC) 357:09:20 20 May 2003 (UTC) 341:05:35 Sep 13, 2002 (UTC) 317:02:01 Sep 14, 2002 (UTC) 257:19:46, 19 Sep 2004 (UTC) 203:16:32, 19 Sep 2004 (UTC) 185:04:57 Sep 14, 2002 (UTC) 123:02:01 Sep 14, 2002 (UTC) 2017:Removed the following: 1937:21:00, 2005 Jun 3 (UTC) 1909:14:54, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC) 1646:17:14, 8 Nov 2004 (UTC) 1375:00:56, 9 Nov 2004 (UTC) 1285:But of course we are! 1270:00:56, 9 Nov 2004 (UTC) 1187:00:56, 9 Nov 2004 (UTC) 1132:00:56, 9 Nov 2004 (UTC) 1053:00:56, 9 Nov 2004 (UTC) 1010:17:00, 8 Nov 2004 (UTC) 585:Water in practice-: --> 527:00:32, 2 Oct 2004 (UTC) 245:article rather than in 1805:electric dipole moment 1611:Water does not evolve. 1120:from the Wiki article. 711:Object - This subject 442:Freezing salt water??? 1295:and interpreted by a 1232:about what, exactly, 42:of past discussions. 859:fine tuning for life 635:has no place on the 465:William M. Connolley 461:William M. Connolley 196:is possibly a robot. 171:Conclude: -0.09: --> 1775:dielectric constant 1619:fine-tuned universe 1431:fine-tuned universe 1256:Thought experiments 1230:thought experiments 1225:fine-tuned universe 1221:anthropic principle 1181:fine-tuned universe 1144:Fine-tuned universe 920:fine-tuned universe 916:anthropic principle 855:anthropic principle 847:fine-tuned universe 843:fine-tuned universe 733:anthropic principle 633:anthropic principle 595:What do you think ? 1942:What is it called? 1651:Unusual properties 1393:isn't the same as 924:intelligent design 644:. That theory by 1809:greenhouse effect 1698:extremely crucial 1657:greenhouse effect 1557:natural selection 1473:natural selection 1449:Fats in evolution 1318:scientific method 1179:. You state that 1126:just a half truth 845:, with a link to 724:'s comments, but: 77: 76: 54: 53: 48:current talk page 2125: 2038:crores of people 1995:Origins of Water 1849:water (molecule) 1642:utilize water. - 1288: 1219:In other words, 861:as both imply a 812:water (molecule) 351:Water (resource) 301:Desert survival 249:. See this also 63: 56: 55: 33: 32: 26: 2133: 2132: 2128: 2127: 2126: 2124: 2123: 2122: 2121: 2081: 2052: 2015: 1997: 1978: 1965:Gaia hypothesis 1956: 1954:Gaia Hypothesis 1951: 1944: 1878: 1870: 1862: 1847:Hi - check out 1830: 1653: 1533:be composed of 1451: 1341:In particular, 1286: 1035:inherently true 838: 827:Ta bu shi da yu 702:Ta bu shi da yu 605:Ta bu shi da yu 589:Ta bu shi da yu 525:Derrick Coetzee 494:Derrick Coetzee 474: 444: 436:Derrick Coetzee 431: 414: 402: 371: 298: 296:desert survival 220:physics teacher 82: 59: 30: 22: 21: 20: 12: 11: 5: 2131: 2129: 2120: 2117: 2116: 2115: 2114: 2113: 2088: 2087: 2080: 2077: 2051: 2050:External Links 2048: 2034: 2033: 2030: 2027: 2022: 2014: 2011: 1996: 1993: 1977: 1974: 1955: 1952: 1949: 1943: 1940: 1939: 1938: 1931: 1930: 1926: 1925: 1913: 1912: 1911: 1910: 1900: 1899: 1888: 1877: 1876:Spelling Style 1874: 1869: 1866: 1861: 1858: 1857: 1856: 1829: 1826: 1825: 1824: 1823: 1822: 1821: 1820: 1819: 1818: 1817: 1816: 1791: 1789: 1788: 1787: 1786: 1785: 1784: 1783: 1782: 1764: 1763: 1762: 1761: 1760: 1759: 1747: 1746: 1745: 1744: 1743: 1742: 1741: 1740: 1718: 1717: 1716: 1715: 1714: 1713: 1704: 1703: 1702: 1701: 1687: 1686: 1685: 1684: 1674: 1673: 1652: 1649: 1648: 1647: 1634: 1633: 1629: 1628: 1627: 1626: 1615: 1612: 1606: 1605: 1604: 1603: 1595: 1594: 1593: 1592: 1585: 1582: 1579: 1576: 1573: 1563: 1562: 1561: 1560: 1541: 1540: 1539: 1538: 1531:cell membranes 1527: 1524: 1514: 1513: 1512: 1511: 1496: 1495: 1491: 1490: 1450: 1447: 1446: 1445: 1444: 1443: 1442: 1441: 1440: 1439: 1419: 1418: 1417: 1416: 1415: 1414: 1413: 1412: 1391:Falsifiability 1381: 1380: 1379: 1378: 1377: 1376: 1369:falsifiability 1364: 1363: 1353: 1352: 1351: 1350: 1343:thermodynamics 1336: 1335: 1334: 1333: 1314:falsifiability 1312:The idea that 1307: 1306: 1305: 1304: 1303: 1302: 1301: 1300: 1289: 1276: 1275: 1274: 1273: 1272: 1271: 1248: 1247: 1246: 1245: 1214: 1213: 1212: 1211: 1210: 1209: 1208: 1207: 1193: 1192: 1191: 1190: 1189: 1188: 1159: 1158: 1157: 1156: 1138: 1137: 1136: 1135: 1134: 1133: 1122: 1121: 1114: 1113: 1107: 1106: 1098: 1097: 1096: 1095: 1077: 1076: 1075: 1074: 1073: 1072: 1071: 1070: 1059: 1058: 1057: 1056: 1055: 1054: 1031:observed facts 1022: 1021: 1020: 1019: 1012: 1011: 992: 991: 990: 989: 983: 982: 981: 980: 979: 978: 975: 968: 965: 962: 954: 953: 952: 951: 945: 944: 943: 942: 909: 908: 907: 906: 905: 904: 892: 891: 890: 889: 879: 878: 837: 834: 833: 832: 831: 830: 820: 819: 803: 802: 795: 794: 793: 790: 771: 756: 753: 746: 743: 736: 726: 725: 722:User:Creidieki 708: 707: 706: 705: 700:Definitely. - 695: 694: 686: 685: 680:, perhaps) -- 670: 669: 625: 624: 613: 612: 611: 610: 609: 608: 558: 557: 556: 555: 554: 553: 552: 551: 550: 533: 532: 531: 530: 529: 528: 516: 515: 514: 513: 498: 497: 490: 487: 473: 470: 469: 468: 449: 447: 443: 440: 434:graph itself? 430: 427: 413: 410: 401: 398: 397: 396: 395: 394: 384: 383: 370: 367: 359: 347:Drinking water 344: 343: 342: 327: 319: 318: 297: 294: 263: 262: 261: 260: 259: 258: 235: 234: 223: 207: 206: 205: 204: 197: 187: 186: 180: 177: 174: 169: 166: 163: 160: 157: 154: 151: 146: 145: 125: 124: 97: 81: 78: 75: 74: 69: 64: 52: 51: 34: 23: 15: 14: 13: 10: 9: 6: 4: 3: 2: 2130: 2118: 2112: 2109: 2105: 2104: 2103: 2102: 2101: 2100: 2097: 2093: 2086: 2083: 2082: 2078: 2076: 2075: 2071: 2067: 2063: 2059: 2055: 2049: 2047: 2046: 2043: 2039: 2031: 2028: 2026: 2023: 2020: 2019: 2018: 2012: 2010: 2009: 2006: 2002: 1994: 1992: 1991: 1988: 1983: 1982: 1975: 1973: 1971: 1967: 1966: 1961: 1960:geologic time 1953: 1948: 1941: 1936: 1933: 1932: 1928: 1927: 1923: 1919: 1915: 1914: 1908: 1904: 1903: 1902: 1901: 1897: 1893: 1889: 1887: 1883: 1882: 1881: 1875: 1873: 1867: 1865: 1859: 1854: 1850: 1846: 1845: 1844: 1842: 1838: 1833: 1832:Howdy y'all, 1827: 1815: 1810: 1806: 1802: 1801: 1800: 1799: 1798: 1797: 1796: 1795: 1794: 1793: 1792: 1780: 1776: 1772: 1771: 1770: 1769: 1768: 1767: 1766: 1765: 1757: 1753: 1752: 1751: 1750: 1749: 1748: 1738: 1734: 1730: 1726: 1725: 1724: 1723: 1722: 1721: 1720: 1719: 1710: 1709: 1708: 1707: 1706: 1705: 1699: 1695: 1691: 1690: 1689: 1688: 1682: 1678: 1677: 1676: 1675: 1670: 1669: 1668: 1666: 1662: 1658: 1650: 1645: 1640: 1636: 1635: 1631: 1630: 1624: 1620: 1616: 1613: 1610: 1609: 1608: 1607: 1602: 1599: 1598: 1597: 1596: 1590: 1586: 1583: 1580: 1577: 1574: 1571: 1567: 1566: 1565: 1564: 1559: 1558: 1554: 1550: 1545: 1544: 1543: 1542: 1536: 1532: 1528: 1525: 1522: 1518: 1517: 1516: 1515: 1510: 1508: 1504: 1500: 1499: 1498: 1497: 1493: 1492: 1488: 1484: 1483: 1482: 1480: 1476: 1474: 1470: 1466: 1462: 1458: 1448: 1437: 1433: 1432: 1427: 1426: 1425: 1424: 1423: 1422: 1421: 1420: 1410: 1409: 1404: 1403: 1398: 1397: 1396:verifiability 1392: 1389: 1388: 1387: 1386: 1385: 1384: 1383: 1382: 1374: 1370: 1365: 1362: 1359: 1358: 1357: 1356: 1355: 1354: 1348: 1344: 1340: 1339: 1338: 1337: 1331: 1327: 1323: 1319: 1315: 1311: 1310: 1309: 1308: 1298: 1297:consciousness 1294: 1290: 1284: 1283: 1282: 1281: 1280: 1279: 1278: 1277: 1269: 1265: 1261: 1260:consciousness 1257: 1254: 1253: 1252: 1251: 1250: 1249: 1243: 1242: 1237: 1236: 1235:consciousness 1231: 1226: 1222: 1218: 1217: 1216: 1215: 1205: 1201: 1200: 1199: 1198: 1197: 1196: 1195: 1194: 1186: 1182: 1178: 1173: 1169: 1165: 1164: 1163: 1162: 1161: 1160: 1153: 1149: 1145: 1142: 1141: 1140: 1139: 1131: 1127: 1123: 1119: 1115: 1112: 1108: 1104: 1103: 1102: 1101: 1100: 1099: 1093: 1091: 1085: 1081: 1080: 1079: 1078: 1067: 1066: 1065: 1064: 1063: 1062: 1061: 1060: 1052: 1048: 1044: 1041:. Thus these 1040: 1036: 1032: 1028: 1027: 1026: 1025: 1024: 1023: 1016: 1015: 1014: 1013: 1009: 1005: 1001: 997: 994: 993: 987: 986: 985: 984: 976: 973: 969: 966: 963: 960: 959: 958: 957: 956: 955: 949: 948: 947: 946: 940: 936: 933: 929: 925: 921: 917: 913: 912: 911: 910: 902: 898: 897: 896: 895: 894: 893: 887: 883: 882: 881: 880: 876: 872: 868: 864: 860: 856: 852: 851: 850: 848: 844: 835: 828: 824: 823: 822: 821: 817: 813: 809: 805: 804: 800: 796: 791: 788: 784: 780: 775: 772: 769: 768:bottled water 765: 761: 757: 754: 751: 747: 744: 741: 740:Mpemba effect 737: 734: 730: 729: 728: 727: 723: 719: 714: 710: 709: 703: 699: 698: 697: 696: 692: 688: 687: 683: 679: 675: 672: 671: 667: 662: 659: 655: 651: 647: 643: 638: 634: 630: 627: 626: 622: 618: 615: 614: 606: 601: 600: 598: 593: 592: 590: 583:History-: --> 581: 577: 574: 573: 572: 570: 565: 563: 549: 546: 541: 540: 539: 538: 537: 536: 535: 534: 526: 522: 521: 520: 519: 518: 517: 511: 506: 502: 501: 500: 499: 495: 491: 488: 484: 483: 482: 480: 471: 466: 462: 458: 457: 456: 454: 441: 439: 437: 428: 426: 424: 419: 418: 411: 409: 406: 405:appropriate. 399: 392: 388: 387: 386: 385: 381: 377: 376: 375: 368: 366: 365: 358: 356: 352: 348: 340: 339:Robert Merkel 336: 335: 334: 330: 325: 324: 316: 312: 311: 310: 308: 302: 295: 293: 292: 288: 284: 280: 276: 271: 269: 256: 252: 248: 244: 240: 236: 232: 228: 224: 221: 217: 213: 212: 211: 210: 209: 208: 202: 198: 195: 191: 190: 189: 188: 184: 181: 178: 175: 170: 167: 164: 161: 158: 155: 152: 148: 147: 144: 139: 138: 137: 135: 130: 122: 117: 116: 115: 113: 107: 103: 102: 101:User:mousomer 95: 94: 90: 89: 85: 79: 73: 70: 68: 65: 62: 58: 57: 49: 45: 41: 40: 35: 28: 27: 19: 2091: 2089: 2084: 2058:Martin Rudat 2053: 2037: 2035: 2024: 2016: 2001:Masaru_Emoto 1998: 1984: 1980: 1979: 1963: 1957: 1945: 1895: 1891: 1879: 1871: 1863: 1834: 1831: 1790: 1779:permeability 1732: 1728: 1697: 1693: 1660: 1654: 1638: 1623:extremophile 1600: 1588: 1546: 1520: 1519:"Inside" of 1501: 1454: 1452: 1435: 1429: 1411:(falsehood). 1406: 1400: 1394: 1390: 1368: 1360: 1330:20th century 1296: 1292: 1263: 1259: 1255: 1239: 1233: 1224: 1220: 1203: 1180: 1176: 1171: 1167: 1151: 1143: 1125: 1117: 1110: 1087: 1046: 1042: 1038: 1034: 1030: 1003: 999: 995: 971: 914:Neither the 870: 866: 862: 858: 854: 839: 718:User:Rednblu 712: 673: 628: 616: 575: 566: 559: 545:Natalinasmpf 475: 445: 432: 420: 416: 415: 407: 403: 372: 360: 345: 331: 326: 320: 303: 299: 275:Martin Rudat 272: 264: 230: 219: 133: 128: 126: 108: 104: 96: 91: 86: 83: 60: 43: 37: 2108:Carabinieri 1987:68.6.29.194 1894:instead of 1841:The bellman 1814:dikaiopolis 1679:Opacity to 1639:fine-tuning 1537:substances? 1535:hydrophobic 1405:(truth) or 1170:and is not 1004:falsifiable 871:fine tuning 758:Talking of 36:This is an 2119:pure water 2025:The Crisis 1402:sufficient 1347:relativity 1172:fine-tuned 760:reservoirs 658:elementals 654:Empedocles 646:Empedocles 374:thoughts? 225:Conclude: 214:Conclude: 192:Conclude: 18:Talk:Water 2079:"Exploit" 1907:WCFrancis 1868:Etymology 1587:If water 1553:evolution 1529:Why must 1507:membranes 1469:evolution 1461:membranes 1436:necessary 1408:necessary 1148:corollary 935:planetoid 799:Solipsist 750:reservoir 682:Creidieki 650:Aristotle 642:mythology 315:AxelBoldt 307:mimirzero 216:mimirzero 194:mimirzero 183:mimirzero 143:AxelBoldt 121:AxelBoldt 112:mimirzero 72:Archive 3 67:Archive 2 61:Archive 1 2005:Greenman 1681:infrared 1555:through 1479:Pcarbonn 1471:through 1371:means. - 1116:and ... 1090:universe 1033:are not 932:starless 886:Pcarbonn 863:designer 816:Pcarbonn 764:aquifers 691:Emsworth 597:Pcarbonn 569:Pcarbonn 510:Pcarbonn 477:split.-- 329:Warning 323:WaterGuy 2013:Crisis? 1935:Darrien 1737:Shimmin 1733:changes 1694:extreme 1326:Science 1109:Found: 1029:Hmm... 928:physics 783:Gangees 774:History 666:Rednblu 640:is not 617:Support 580:diagram 412:Amused? 369:potable 268:Doradus 239:skating 150:-20.69} 39:archive 2042:Vsmith 1892:vapour 1860:Deltas 1853:Vsmith 1644:Vsmith 1570:lipids 1487:Vsmith 1373:Vsmith 1268:Vsmith 1185:Vsmith 1130:Vsmith 1084:truism 1051:Vsmith 1008:Vsmith 939:matter 922:imply 918:nor a 901:Vsmith 875:Vsmith 713:should 674:Object 629:Object 621:Vsmith 576:Oppose 564:page: 479:Vsmith 453:Vsmith 380:Ellywa 355:Ellywa 255:Vsmith 1976:Taste 1970:James 1896:vapor 1828:Table 1665:polar 1549:cells 1503:Fatty 1465:cells 1457:Fatty 1322:error 1244:mean. 1146:is a 1069:(UTC) 1043:facts 1039:facts 1018:them. 972:weird 867:about 808:water 787:Sulis 637:Water 328:: --> 300:: --> 247:water 172:: --> 105:: --> 16:< 2021:---- 1922:this 1918:this 1521:what 1345:and 1293:self 1264:self 1262:and 1241:self 1238:and 1223:and 1047:true 869:the 785:and 779:Nile 738:The 731:The 720:and 364:dave 227:PMcM 201:PMcM 129:tons 2096:Dpr 2092:all 1729:has 1661:not 1659:is 1324:. 1287:^_^ 1177:are 1086:. 857:or 243:ice 241:or 233::-) 134:can 2072:) 1905:-- 1625:). 1589:is 1168:is 781:, 423:SS 391:SS 353:. 289:) 253:-- 2070:C 2068:| 2066:@ 2064:| 2062:T 2060:( 1898:. 1572:. 1523:? 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