823:
they are dealt with in quite scholarly ways by at least 5-6 RS scholars and in hundreds of news articles. Perhaps this would also be a way to clean up Dorje
Shugden Controversy, as what is the controversy itself is very debatable. Many scholarly sources look at it in different ways (strictly political, strictly religious, the controversy is 'the ban', the controversy is because Dorje Shugden incites sectarianism, the controversy has to do with China, the controversy has to do with discrimination, and so on. Anyway, we have time :)
420:
399:
581:
488:
331:
310:
279:
203:
235:
670:
he has decided not to deal with
Tibetan politics from Oct 1998. - "However in October 1998 we decided to completely stop being involved in this Shugden issue because we realized that in reality this is a Tibetan political problem and not the problem of Buddhism in general or the NKT." ( OPEN LETTER from Geshe Kelsang Nov 2002.)
802:, I'd have a hard time seeing these protests as a stand-alone article separate from the articles about the organization. That said, the murder of the monks in Dharamsala would then also be suitable for a stand-alone article, I think. So, I suggest forking with caution. Or better yet, not forking at all...
692:
In light of my own experience, where I saw many WSS protestors in London, Cambridge, and
Nottingham, every person I spoke to was a student of KG. There were no exceptions. There were no Tibetans in any of those groups. So - this is the evidence that we have. The NKT and the WSS certainly have some
822:
Thanks for the insight. I will think about it for a bit instead of making direct moves. The thing is, the demonstrations in detail are not talked about currently in depth in any wikipedia article (Dorje
Shugden Controversy is the most in depth, but it still does an extremely cursory job) even though
669:
Lastly, if there really is any doubt, one only needs to see the relationship that both the WSS and the NKT have with
Shugden. The sole bone of contention on this issue is that back in 1998 or so, KG said that he was not going to protest about Shudgen, because it was a Tibetan political affair, and
662:
What is also clear is that the DSS wishes to anonymise itself. How can I say this? There is a well presented, designed website, which must have been funded, constructed, authored, and kept up to date by a team on individuals - not an ad hoc group, but a dedicated team. Websites do not appear in a
778:
Eh I think you are right about this one. I guess it depends on how stringent of the qualifications are for material for an article. If we include everything relating to the SSC and ISC, like news articles, etc, then this could be a sizeable article and would be valuable. But if not, it seems to not
688:
I am not a name caller. It is my conviction that anyone who is unable to see the obvious is either ignorant or bigoted. When there are two organisations that have a public face, and that have common goals, or a common purpose, it is unusual for them not to be affiliated. However, this is case is
658:
There are plenty of eye-witnesses who talked with the demonstrators across the UK this year - including media representatives. BY all accounts, every demonstrator was a member of the NKT. So, we see clearly that there is a strong tie between the WSS and the NKT - there is no point in us denying
647:
Why? First of all, neither author has any right to judge the relevancy of sources. Read the WP rules before deleting original work. Secondly, there is quite clearly an organisation called the WSS - it has a website. If we follow the money, it leads us directly to the doors of the NKT. It's not
689:
interesting in that the WSS and the NKT appear to ignore each other on their public faces: there is no public discussion of the relation (or lack of it) on either the WSS or the NKT websites. How strange that two apparently mutually focussed organisations should ignore each other.
509:
684:
is very useful here. The difficulty we have is that there is no information about the WSS on their own website. There is no identification of affiliation, or relationship. Indeed, the WSS website is deliberately vague about the organisation. It's not a reliable source
663:
self-generated manner. Secondly, the organisation and transport arrangements, as well as the placard printing, etc. of the demonstrations across the UK this year was managed centrally - there was nothing random or ad hoc about the demonstrations.
693:
sort of affiliation - in that the corporal presence of the WSS was made by members of the NKT. There is strong evidence linking WSS to the NKT, in emails, and administrative contacts, as well as the organisational representation.
153:
732:? Would that make it better here too? Granted, I don't know if those quotes exactly fit on this page or we would need to discuss it a bit to establish the reasoning, but the claim of Cherrypicking is weak at best..
654:
There is a gigantic difference between identity of two organisations - something which no-one has brought into dispute, and I am tired of straw man arguments being used to dissemble the foundations of these things.
674:
I believe you should read the rules on WP reliable sources because eye witnesses, hearsay, and personal emails are not included. Please watch your insulting name calling as this is against wikipedia rules,
381:
666:
There are possibly some things worth arguing about - but the affiliations between the NKT and the DSS is one that cannot be argued, unless you wish to appear like foolish, bigoted idiots.
845:
Here is an interview with Robert
Barnett. I linked it as an external link. I lack time to use it to improve the article. But maybe better we leave it with this external link reference?
147:
651:
Moreover, there is literal evidence that
Kelsang Gyatso authorised the instantiation of the organisation by one or more of his students. His email is in the public domain.
927:
194:
44:
559:
779:
fit the qualifications that we need for it to be notable. What I do envision, though, is a new article "Demonstrations at The Dalai Lama's
Teachings" similar to
917:
549:
922:
255:. Feel free to try to improve the article, but don't take it personally if your changes are reversed; instead, come here to the talk page to discuss them.
79:
912:
907:
470:
460:
525:
882:
892:
371:
242:
190:
902:
85:
897:
516:
493:
887:
631:
168:
135:
347:
599:
258:
246:
99:
30:
615:
591:
436:
427:
404:
104:
20:
74:
718:
Chryssides says the dispute is between
Kelsang Gyatso and the Dalai Lama. And Ardley says the dispute is used by Beijing.
696:
The real smoking gun, however, is that the NKT and WSS pretend not to know about each other, even though they clearly do.
129:
290:
338:
315:
65:
431:, an attempt to promote better coordination, content distribution, and cross-referencing between pages dealing with
125:
202:
185:
729:
213:
853:
175:
595:
264:
109:
24:
849:
278:
828:
788:
737:
625:
296:
773:
719:
141:
808:
756:
161:
55:
524:
on
Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
346:
on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
704:
609:
218:
70:
643:
The article has been reverted to before the edits made by Kelsang Peljor, and a '64.251.25.150'
824:
784:
733:
621:
252:
51:
215:
799:
864:
817:
803:
751:
876:
700:
605:
521:
868:
832:
810:
792:
758:
741:
722:
681:
217:
508:
487:
419:
398:
330:
309:
590:
to the subject of this article. Relevant policies and guidelines may include
860:
267:
when adding content and consider tagging or removing unsourced information.
432:
780:
343:
575:
272:
229:
219:
15:
588:
contributors may be personally or professionally connected
750:
Providing sources for analysis against WP:RS is wise.
728:
Do you want the whole quotes instead, as I included on
435:. If you would like to participate, please visit the
160:
520:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
342:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
850:Protests against the Dalai Lama over Dorje Shugden
33:for general discussion of the article's subject.
781:https://en.wikipedia.org/2014_Ferguson_unrest
174:
8:
634:) This user has contributed to the article.
618:) This user has contributed to the article.
482:
393:
304:
276:
928:Articles edited by connected contributors
699:Lastly, you should register a username. (
484:
425:This article falls within the scope of
395:
306:
7:
918:Low-importance organization articles
514:This article is within the scope of
336:This article is within the scope of
534:Knowledge:WikiProject Organizations
295:It is of interest to the following
23:for discussing improvements to the
923:WikiProject Organizations articles
537:Template:WikiProject Organizations
14:
439:for more details on the projects.
913:Stub-Class organization articles
908:Low-importance Buddhism articles
579:
507:
486:
418:
397:
329:
308:
277:
233:
201:
45:Click here to start a new topic.
554:This article has been rated as
465:This article has been rated as
376:This article has been rated as
257:Content must be written from a
241:The subject of this article is
883:Knowledge controversial topics
445:Knowledge:WikiProject Buddhism
1:
893:Low-importance Tibet articles
869:09:16, 12 December 2014 (UTC)
528:and see a list of open tasks.
448:Template:WikiProject Buddhism
350:and see a list of open tasks.
42:Put new text under old text.
903:Stub-Class Buddhism articles
833:19:27, 12 October 2014 (UTC)
642:
811:03:36, 6 October 2014 (UTC)
793:21:03, 5 October 2014 (UTC)
759:03:34, 6 October 2014 (UTC)
742:15:57, 3 October 2014 (UTC)
723:23:19, 2 October 2014 (UTC)
356:Knowledge:WikiProject Tibet
251:When updating the article,
50:New to Knowledge? Welcome!
944:
898:WikiProject Tibet articles
560:project's importance scale
471:project's importance scale
359:Template:WikiProject Tibet
888:Stub-Class Tibet articles
730:Dorje Shugden Controversy
553:
517:WikiProject Organizations
502:
464:
413:
375:
324:
303:
253:be bold, but not reckless
80:Be welcoming to newcomers
586:The following Knowledge
25:Western Shugden Society
285:This article is rated
245:and content may be in
75:avoid personal attacks
798:The problem I see is
600:neutral point of view
540:organization articles
259:neutral point of view
195:Auto-archiving period
100:Neutral point of view
852:– An interview with
592:conflict of interest
428:WikiProject Buddhism
105:No original research
291:content assessment
86:dispute resolution
47:
783:. But in time...
640:
639:
574:
573:
570:
569:
566:
565:
481:
480:
477:
476:
451:Buddhism articles
392:
391:
388:
387:
339:WikiProject Tibet
271:
270:
226:
225:
66:Assume good faith
43:
935:
821:
806:
777:
754:
648:rocket science.
583:
582:
576:
542:
541:
538:
535:
532:
511:
504:
503:
498:
490:
483:
453:
452:
449:
446:
443:
422:
415:
414:
409:
401:
394:
382:importance scale
364:
363:
360:
357:
354:
333:
326:
325:
320:
312:
305:
288:
282:
281:
273:
237:
236:
230:
220:
206:
205:
196:
179:
178:
164:
95:Article policies
16:
943:
942:
938:
937:
936:
934:
933:
932:
873:
872:
843:
815:
804:
774:VictoriaGrayson
771:
769:
752:
720:VictoriaGrayson
716:
645:
580:
539:
536:
533:
530:
529:
496:
450:
447:
444:
441:
440:
407:
361:
358:
355:
352:
351:
318:
289:on Knowledge's
286:
234:
222:
221:
216:
193:
121:
116:
115:
114:
91:
61:
12:
11:
5:
941:
939:
931:
930:
925:
920:
915:
910:
905:
900:
895:
890:
885:
875:
874:
858:
857:
856:, Dec 12, 2014
854:Robert Barnett
842:
841:Expert Opinion
839:
838:
837:
836:
835:
768:
765:
764:
763:
762:
761:
745:
744:
715:
712:
711:
710:
709:
708:
697:
694:
690:
686:
676:
675:
644:
641:
638:
637:
636:
635:
619:
584:
572:
571:
568:
567:
564:
563:
556:Low-importance
552:
546:
545:
543:
526:the discussion
512:
500:
499:
497:Low‑importance
491:
479:
478:
475:
474:
467:Low-importance
463:
457:
456:
454:
423:
411:
410:
408:Low‑importance
402:
390:
389:
386:
385:
378:Low-importance
374:
368:
367:
365:
362:Tibet articles
348:the discussion
334:
322:
321:
319:Low‑importance
313:
301:
300:
294:
283:
269:
268:
238:
224:
223:
214:
212:
211:
208:
207:
181:
180:
118:
117:
113:
112:
107:
102:
93:
92:
90:
89:
82:
77:
68:
62:
60:
59:
48:
39:
38:
35:
34:
28:
13:
10:
9:
6:
4:
3:
2:
940:
929:
926:
924:
921:
919:
916:
914:
911:
909:
906:
904:
901:
899:
896:
894:
891:
889:
886:
884:
881:
880:
878:
871:
870:
866:
862:
855:
851:
848:
847:
846:
840:
834:
830:
826:
819:
814:
813:
812:
809:
807:
801:
797:
796:
795:
794:
790:
786:
782:
775:
766:
760:
757:
755:
749:
748:
747:
746:
743:
739:
735:
731:
727:
726:
725:
724:
721:
714:Cherrypicking
713:
706:
702:
698:
695:
691:
687:
683:
680:
679:
678:
677:
673:
672:
671:
667:
664:
660:
656:
652:
649:
633:
630:
627:
623:
620:
617:
614:
611:
607:
604:
603:
601:
597:
596:autobiography
593:
589:
585:
578:
577:
561:
557:
551:
548:
547:
544:
531:Organizations
527:
523:
522:Organizations
519:
518:
513:
510:
506:
505:
501:
495:
494:Organizations
492:
489:
485:
472:
468:
462:
459:
458:
455:
438:
434:
430:
429:
424:
421:
417:
416:
412:
406:
403:
400:
396:
383:
379:
373:
370:
369:
366:
349:
345:
341:
340:
335:
332:
328:
327:
323:
317:
314:
311:
307:
302:
298:
292:
284:
280:
275:
274:
266:
262:
260:
254:
250:
248:
244:
243:controversial
239:
232:
231:
228:
210:
209:
204:
200:
192:
189:
187:
183:
182:
177:
173:
170:
167:
163:
159:
155:
152:
149:
146:
143:
140:
137:
134:
131:
127:
124:
123:Find sources:
120:
119:
111:
110:Verifiability
108:
106:
103:
101:
98:
97:
96:
87:
83:
81:
78:
76:
72:
69:
67:
64:
63:
57:
53:
52:Learn to edit
49:
46:
41:
40:
37:
36:
32:
26:
22:
18:
17:
859:
844:
825:Prasangika37
785:Prasangika37
770:
734:Prasangika37
717:
668:
665:
661:
657:
653:
650:
646:
628:
622:Prasangika37
612:
587:
555:
515:
466:
437:project page
426:
377:
337:
297:WikiProjects
256:
240:
227:
198:
184:
171:
165:
157:
150:
144:
138:
132:
122:
94:
19:This is the
148:free images
31:not a forum
877:Categories
287:Stub-class
818:Montanabw
805:Montanabw
753:Montanabw
265:citations
88:if needed
71:Be polite
21:talk page
800:WP:CFORK
767:Stubbing
701:20040302
632:contribs
616:contribs
606:Audrey37
442:Buddhism
433:Buddhism
405:Buddhism
263:Include
186:Archives
56:get help
29:This is
27:article.
685:itself.
558:on the
469:on the
380:on the
247:dispute
199:90 days
154:WP refs
142:scholar
659:this.
598:, and
293:scale.
126:Google
682:WP:RS
353:Tibet
344:Tibet
316:Tibet
169:JSTOR
130:books
84:Seek
865:talk
861:Kt66
829:talk
789:talk
738:talk
705:talk
626:talk
610:talk
162:FENS
136:news
73:and
602:.
550:Low
461:Low
372:Low
176:TWL
879::
867:)
831:)
791:)
740:)
707:))
594:,
197::
156:)
54:;
863:(
827:(
820::
816:@
787:(
776::
772:@
736:(
703:(
629:·
624:(
613:·
608:(
562:.
473:.
384:.
299::
261:.
249:.
191:1
188::
172:·
166:·
158:·
151:·
145:·
139:·
133:·
128:(
58:.
Text is available under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License. Additional terms may apply.
