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card "effectively kills off creatures that don't look like the creatures already on the table" rather than not deliberately mislead people? Also, I don't know why you're bringing up the 1488 thing, as I never touched that part of the article in my edits and it has nothing to do with my edit. My edit had nothing to do with debating the reasons for the card's removal, only removing blatant misinformation.
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1684:. At this point, the 2020–present section is as long or longer than previous sections (which cover a decade at time versus ~2 years). I think it is important to cover the events of June/July 2020 and Wizards follow up steps but I also think it needs to be way more concise. I've found the Guild to be really helpful with their reviews of large articles. Let me know if there are any objections.
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company, though separating business dealings from publications might be possible; if the section becomes too large, you might consider summarizing and splitting it off to its own article. Also, the lede could be expanded to more-fully summarize the article's content. These suggestions, however, are beyond the scope of the copy-editor. Good luck with the article and cheers
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far suggests a lot of noteworthy activity. If you want other things to be included, feel free to find notable sources so it can be added. As I stated before, if there is something in particular that you feel is not neutral, bring it up here and we can discuss it. I'm willing to wager the section about the latest controversy is nowhere near its "final" form.
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1639:; also the actual mechanics of the card don't really matter because the name of the card, the art and the perception of what the card implied (ie. targets creatures that look different) are what led to it's removal. Additionally, that card specifically was linked to some white supremist numbers which has nothing to do with the mechanics of the card.
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leak, the OGL1.2 draft, the capitulation). What I aimed with this article was to focus on the business implications for
Wizards instead of the OGL minutiae. One way to tighten this section would be to trim & rephrase some of the quotes. I've tried to keep it as tight as possible but another editor could take pass (actually going to ping
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2672:. I've removed it because it is either off-topic for this article, it's in the wrong location, or for some other reason. I've left it here in case its removal breaks any named references and for the benefit of future editors. Some material may be reincorporated at a later stage. See the article's history for full attribution.
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where the nitty gritty of each license version is broken down. In this article, over the course of two paragraphs, the coverage starts with the Nov 2022 & Dec 2022 events (initial unconfirmed leak & Wizards response) before jumping into Jan 2023 in which three main things happened (the OGL1.1
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One card in particular, Invoke
Prejudice, was singled out. It shows a hooded executioner with a black axe. “If opponent casts a Summon spell that does not match the color of one of the creatures under your control, that spell is countered,” says the card. It effectively kills off creatures that don’t
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doesn't apply to conclusions that are explicitly stated by a source. I gave a source (the
Gatherer page for Invoke Prejudice) that explicitly states what the card does, as that's what the textbox of a card does. Why do you think that it's best to mislead readers into Polygon's nonsense claim that the
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Hello, random IP addresses. Are any of you employed or compensated by, directly or indirectly, any party with a financial stake in the success of WotC as a company? Not to assume bad faith or anything, but a bunch of random IP addresses trying to argue that a recent controversy posing a PR issue for
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presentation is all. The "2020-present" section is much larger than sections of entire decades of the past, and I fear it's going to continue to grow. I do believe this absolutely needs to be covered somewhere on
Knowledge (XXG), but maybe not to this level of detail in *this* article? It feels like
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dont wanna remove large sentences or segments without consulting, but i wanted to bring up the fact of seeing if there are sentences that feel unnecessary to mention in the 2020-present history section {ie: talking about the spendings of fans in paragraph 3}. feel free to leave me suggestions, and
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I'm not sure about the other IPs, but this one has made some spurious edits putting notability tags on articles with adequate sourcing, some of which may appear to target LGBTQ bios. Above IP has also deleted relevant cited material on other articles. This IP is probably heading for a suspension or
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a factor. Anything in
Wikivoice must be impartial, but any article can represent views of other sources, so long as it represented as such. Seeing as how this is a hot button issue right now (and evidenced in many anonymous IPs edits) this seems worthy of inclusion and all the sources provided thus
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There is a lot of chatter about the new version of the Open Game
Licence somehow deauthorising the original version of the OGL (OGL 1.0a). Supposedly, everyone using the SRD or derivative works (maybe even Pathfinder) will be expected to pay WotC money, if they earn more than $ 75,000 USD per year.
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are reliable secondary sources for this industry. Highlighting that the coverage ranged from industry news (ie. Kotaku & Polygon) to national news (ie. NYT) shows how widespread the reporting was. This wasn't just an event on social media. Additionally, the Kotaku article is correct in terms of
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There is currently a legal dispute over this, as WotC has still been using it's trademarks that have a lapsed registration and is asserting it's IP ownership of the brands associated with them. WotC is also asserting the copyright of it's brand logo designs, all of which got transferred from TSR to
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I don't see a problem. Some issues will naturally be bigger than others. The large majority of this article is not on the OGL. It's quite possible this issue gets its own article if it continues to grow. I don't see that being necessary at this time. All I see is relevant history being documented.
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the action calling it "an act of gross tokenism" while highlighting instances of racism in Magic’s cards. Notably, the card Invoke
Prejudice features art that’s extremely similar to depictions of the KKK while its ID number in the Gatherer database, 1488, is associated with white supremacy groups.
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ok the entire history category is. about the size of this one segment os imo i feel like we can chop anything that isnt majorly notable for the past 4 years bcz it feels like it's.. every news piece about wotc in the past 4 years. i, again, dont want to make decisions on a category i dont have
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I've moved a little text to the article's talk page because it isn't directly relevant there. I'd earlier removed another short passage but found that text is directly relevant so I've note that on the talk. Regarding shortening the history section, I think the content there is relevant to the
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to cover it to that extent here. Adding more to other sections would not be a bad idea, but to add an equal amount to make them of the same level of detail as the most recent events would require probably more than doubling the size of this article. There's got to be a balance here, is all I'm
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It does when you string them together in one sentence. Polygon is a reliable source for this industry and that's their interpretation of the mechanics which again what's key is the perception of the card. You can argue that the card mechanically does something differently but it doesn't matter
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My only thought is that it feels like it's presented as "Here is 30 years of history, told as a history as it unfolds, and then... there was this one month that just had so much going on for the company that it was more significant than anything that's ever happened with them!" That is an odd
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Feel free to add appropriate content from 30 years ago with proper sources. If you see something in particular that is a "grievance" please point it out so it can be addressed. There is nothing wrong with an article having a large controversy section, so long as it is neutral.
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That primary source is a google doc (third link in the Kotaku quote) which is self-published source. It should probably be replaced with a secondary source that actually states the name of the writer of the open letter. I removed your analysis about card mechanics because of
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The 2020s for
Wizards seems to be the tension between the growth that Hasbro wants, the actions taken to achieve that, and the fan & media response to those actions. Do you think some of the more fan/media focused bits should be split into a "Reactions" section?
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Thanks for the trim! I think it ballooned because it was updated as events occurred. I added back in a bit of context & sources but in general it seems to be in a much better shape. If we don't feel we need the Guild's help anymore, I can withdraw the request.
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I'm not sure this legal case is notable, as there are literally hundreds, if not thousands of abandoned WotC trademarks. But it's an example of why you can't just snatch up an expired trademark and do the same thing with it that the IP owner used to
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I think that a section regarding controversies/business difficulties is merited. This would include discussion of the MTG 30th anniversary controversy/over-printing controversy, the DnD OGL 1.1 controversies, and the slashing of video game projects
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I agree that we should cover this, but I also agree that it may be too large a percentage of the article considering we're talking about events of just a few weeks' time... A trim to the most relevant points for the company itself would not be
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At this point we're still in the rumor and "sorta/maybe" phase of things. It's possible (though sadly, I think unlikely), that it all blows over. I'd say we should wait and put it in once the dust has settled at least a bit. Cheers.
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I see a bunch of anonymous IPs which are generally unproductive accounts and not familiar with
Knowledge (XXG) norms. Any history is worthy of inclusion into an article. Space allocation is not a factor. Neutrality
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Either way, I don't see a good enough argument presented to suggest the current coverage is excessive. I especially don't see any logic in portraying only the "good" history with more weight than the "negative".
1666:) that talk about multiple open letters and general criticism being raised. I'm going to edit that bit to focus on the widespread criticism rather than criticism by one person & replace the primary source.
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Jayson Elliot let that TSR trademark lapse and it was taken over by someone that has been creating the impression that they own the original TSR company and own IPs connected to WotC trademarks that also
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who was really helpful the last time this article needed a trim). In terms of expanding the history section or creating a business disputes section, there's definitely stuff that could be pulled from
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hello! i have very very little knowledge in this subject (i listen to 5e podcasts, thats about it), however i know the copyediting issue has been on this topic for a while. i
2076:! I've been updating the OGL article on and off since 2020 and for some reason, there's only been an increase in secondary coverage recently. 🤷 Do you know if Appelcline's
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The OGL portion of this article on a thirty-year-old company is now 20% of the article. It needs to be reduced. Knowledge (XXG) is not a place for airing grievances.
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The article probably needs a section on this, but there are a bunch of shouty people, so finding good neutral point of view ways to present this, might be tricky.
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Jayson's use of TSR made it very clear that he was not presenting his TSR to be the original company. It was more of an homage. And he also used a different logo.
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Why do you need a guild request? It just needs t be trimmed and the best way is to remove the long quotes and summarise the info. I will have a go at it.
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they possibly could, or into separate paragraphs about the reactions to hasbro's current streak. it really depends on how it could be formatted imo...
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I did a quick refresher when looking for sources; it wasn't just one open letter by one person. I've found multiple sources (national news as well:
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when we can just add one word to a previous sentence. A paragraph about the racism issues seems about due and it still covers half the section.
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In
January 2021, the Los Angeles Times reported that, according to Liz Schuh, head of publishing and licensing for Dungeons & Dragons, ...
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It does matter. Factually inaccurate statements, like the one made by Polygon, shouldn't be presented on Knowledge (XXG) without criticism (
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on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the ongoing discussions.
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Of course you could add this, as long as it's supported by reliable sources and written from a neutral point of view. Be bold.
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section probably makes sense, I don't think it needs its own section. It might be good to add a small section on this at
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Agreed. But if it does happen as rumored, then showing reactions are perfectly fine, so long as they are stated as such.
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talks about the original OGL and/or the GSL? If possible, I'd like to improve the impact section for the 3E/5E OGL era.
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Yup. If indeed it goes over as currently contemplated, I suspect there will be no shortage of reactions and coverage.
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Hey pal, just because an event is recent and you're sore about it doesn't mean that it warrants 20% of the article.
1716:. The Guild has quite a bit of backlog so it might be a month or two until an editor is free to handle the request.
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837:-related articles on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, or join the
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According to Aaron Forsythe, the new set was intended to make the game easier for players of all levels to play.
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The Pinkerton thing- the first cite is just what the Youtuber claimed. His story is doubtful about those threats.
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universe on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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I'm not the strongest copy-editor so I've found the Guild to be really helpful. But any help is appreciated. 🙂
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saying. Maybe the scandal has so much coverage that it needs to be spun off to its own article or something?
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no problem! ill look more up in the history section aswell, not just the segment you linked on request : -->
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was a supplement designed for use with any game system, but its release in 1992 brought legal trouble with
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ill work on them throughout the weekend and the next few weeks when i'm not busy with my education : -->
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on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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the order of events and links to the primary source you added, and quotes part of the primary source:
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Agreed - the coverage of two years should probably not be as long as the coverage of a decade. :)
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I will flag (as I stated in the above section) that there is much more coverage on this event at
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With the events surrounding the murder of George Floyd by police, video game companies have made
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excessive knowledge on but that feels like the easiest way to make it work and well formatted
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suggests this type of section with both positive & negative coverage to adhere to NPOV.
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Took a second look, the article includes the exact mechanics and then their interpretation:
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This might be a good starting point for anyone looking to continue article improvements.
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Undoubtedly, it talks quite a lot about it, but I have no energy to check at the moment.
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a company is UNDUE smells an awful lot like reputation management efforts in progress.
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in support of their Black fans, employees, and communities. Wizards has made a similar
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My additional thought is that we should put together a request for a review from the
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for references to Palladium's game and system. The suit was settled in 1993.
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No problem. It is a pretty common issue (and was relatively easy to fix).
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Thanks as always for staying on top of this sort of thing, Sariel Xilo.
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to feature new cards and it was the first core set with planeswalkers.
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because it was banned based on the perception of what the card can do.
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Dungeons & Dragons controversies#Licensing and trademark disputes
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Dungeons & Dragons controversies#Licensing and trademark disputes
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As a starting point, feel free to modify text & use sources from
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Dungeons & Dragons controversies#Licensing and trademark disputes
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declaration: text in this section has been copied from the article
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OK removed most of the quotes and we really don't need things like
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finished the copy edit and posted this guidance on my talk page:
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After taking another pass at the history section, I've dropped a
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OGL 1.1 rumors causing a backlash against Wizards of the Coast
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I returned this text to the article; it is relevant there.
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GA-Class Dungeons & Dragons articles of Top-importance
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Just want to flag that I've been updating this over at
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It's not public domain, if that's what you are asking.
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3011:Mid-importance Pokémon articles
2971:Mid-importance company articles
2772:"Death to the Minotaur: Part 1"
1422:This article has been rated as
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853:Dungeons & Dragons articles
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2976:WikiProject Companies articles
1243:WikiProject Role-playing games
729:Tag company articles with the
586:Template:WikiProject Companies
227:has been listed as one of the
1:
2936:Knowledge (XXG) good articles
2716:was the first core set since
1488:TSR trademark expired in 2004
1464:This article is supported by
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1106:Magic: The Gathering articles
1094:and see a list of open tasks.
1030:Drow (Dungeons & Dragons)
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820:Dungeons & Dragons portal
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484:board and table game articles
42:Put new text under old text.
3076:WikiProject Seattle articles
3051:GA-Class Washington articles
3016:WikiProject Pokémon articles
2835:. 2013-09-07. Archived from
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995:Elf (Dungeons & Dragons)
620:WikiProject Companies To-do:
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958:Dungeoneer's Survival Guide
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2405:Thanks comrade commissar.
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1266:role-playing game articles
1009:List of Dragonlance novels
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3006:GA-Class Pokémon articles
2966:GA-Class company articles
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2807:A Brief History of Game
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2859:The named reference
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2739:Fannon, Sean Patrick
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1097:Magic: The Gathering
1088:Magic: The Gathering
1063:Magic: The Gathering
289:Good article nominee
225:Wizards of the Coast
105:No original research
25:Wizards of the Coast
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2122:Controversy section
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1376:Articles Requested!
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2841:. Retrieved
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2817:September 1,
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443:Games portal
393:WikiProjects
358:Good article
357:
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320:July 8, 2019
313:Not promoted
306:
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241:please do so
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19:This is the
2768:Tynes, John
2592:Sariel Xilo
2542:Sariel Xilo
2480:Sariel Xilo
2475:AstralAlley
2443:Sariel Xilo
2335:Sariel Xilo
2166:Sariel Xilo
2082:Sariel Xilo
2043:Sariel Xilo
1932:Sariel Xilo
1871:Sariel Xilo
1822:Sariel Xilo
1785:Sariel Xilo
1749:Sariel Xilo
1718:Sariel Xilo
1686:Sariel Xilo
1668:Sariel Xilo
1641:Sariel Xilo
1513:Sariel Xilo
458:board games
148:free images
31:not a forum
2930:Categories
2894:2019-07-09
2843:2019-07-09
2726:References
2714:Magic 2010
2391:full ban.
2189:Wulfy95113
2181:Wulfy95113
1625:criticized
1617:statements
1314:Washington
839:discussion
470:discussion
351:Copyedited
235:under the
2865:help page
2708:2000-2010
2527:— Baffle☿
2393:Leitmotiv
2301:Leitmotiv
2266:Leitmotiv
2231:Leitmotiv
2025:Leitmotiv
1988:Leitmotiv
1621:statement
580:Companies
571:companies
527:Companies
88:if needed
71:Be polite
21:talk page
2909:Cheers,
2888:Archived
2884:PureMTGO
2741:(1999).
2655:CC-BY-SA
2378:Jclemens
2331:WP:UNDUE
2281:WP:UNDUE
2210:unsigned
1906:WP:SYNTH
1851:WP:SYNTH
1817:Withdrew
1637:WP:SYNTH
1540:expired.
991:Dark Sun
737:template
696:Maintain
670:Copyedit
383:GA-class
249:reassess
186:Archives
56:get help
29:This is
27:article.
2913:Baffle☿
2697:Baffle☿
2679:History
2665:Baffle☿
2661:by me,
2561:really
2471:Thanks
2437:at the
2435:request
2322:Aircorn
2069:Thanks
2023:, and
2021:Dumuzid
2002:Dumuzid
1974:Dumuzid
1958:Big Mac
1607:Polygon
1571:Big Mac
1426:on the
1318:Seattle
1284:on the
1195:on the
1168:Pokémon
1159:Pokémon
1131:Pokémon
970:More...
898:history
871:on the
751:Answer
683:Infobox
607:on the
502:on the
272:Process
154:WP refs
142:scholar
2629:Astral
2609:Astral
2570:Astral
2499:Astral
1814:Note:
1807:(talk)
1775:(talk)
1740:(talk)
1601:Kotaku
1392:Alerts
1002:Verify
977:Update
733:portal
657:Assess
389:scale.
294:Listed
275:Result
126:Google
2776:Salon
1885:WP:AD
1598:Both
1550:WotC.
1015:Other
952:Stubs
941:Merge
908:purge
903:watch
722:Other
709:Stubs
169:JSTOR
130:books
84:Seek
2819:2006
2788:2006
2749:ISBN
2719:Beta
2596:talk
2546:talk
2484:talk
2462:talk
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1604:and
1575:talk
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1498:talk
917:view
893:edit
460:and
332:Kept
269:Date
162:FENS
136:news
73:and
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2699:gab
2667:gab
2565::3
2529:gab
2494::3
2458:BOZ
2164:).
2096:BOZ
2073:BOZ
2057:BOZ
1799:Air
1767:Air
1732:Air
1700:BOZ
1560:do.
1418:Low
1276:Mid
1187:Mid
863:Top
599:Mid
494:Mid
176:TWL
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