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differentiate libraries from archives, some of which must be enormous. If you can find some reliable information, let's use it. If
Widener is not among the top 5-10, I agree that "among the largest" is not appropriate. Certainly much of the Harvard College Library content is now in other buildings (Pusey) or off-site. --
541:
Obviously we'll find usage of both terms -- both are in common currency and completely recognizable to everyone. As another editor pointed out in the prior thread, by your reasoning the article on the
Massachusetts Bay Transportation Authority would be titled "The T", nor is the article on the United
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Well, that's the actual, formal name, and while I usually care too much about that kind of stuff every time I see "Widener
Library" at the head of the article it just seems... inadequate. I can't do the move myself because there's redirect at the target name. As I recall you have the requisite tools
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recommends we "avoid sandwiching text between two images that face each other, or between an image and infobox, navigation template, or similar", a recommendation which the article doesn't currently meet. As I am not familiar enough with the subject or the writers' intended use of the images to trim
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Its hard to say what is in "Widener" proper as the stacks are continuous underground with several other
Harvard libraries. Some libraries count the storage library as part of their main collection, some don't. But archives can be differentiated,as they dont count volumes, usually not having any,
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Since the full name is emblazoned across the front of the building in huge letters, it can hardly be regarded as obscure. We don't invariably use the most common-usage name as a title, or the articles on the
Massachusetts Bay Transportation Authority might be titled "The T", which is presently not
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The current text says it is "among" the largest library buildings. This could refer to floor area, building volume, or (probably most relevant to a library) linear shelf-space. I have no idea what the ranking of library buildings is in linear shelf-space. And I don't know how exactly you would
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Thanks for lording your admin status over us. Given that two editors, obviously intimately familiar with the subject and "how this is known", agree the move's a good idea, I wonder if a more appropriate humble-janitor-serving-the-project approach wouldn't have been, "I'm an admin who can make the
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article says the the Harlan
Hatcher Graduate Library has 3.5 million volumes. The American Library Association show Harvard's as the largest American library system - except the Library of Congress, of course. Amazingly Boston Public Library system is the second largest.
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Harvard has the highest holdings of any american or canadian research library according to ARL, using "library " to mean the collection of books at a university. Their comparison is enough, and the figures will be added to the article proper. Please use some common
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An aside (I've done some consulting for various transit agencies): an obscure document I ran into once recommended that the MBTA (or MTA, at the time) adopt "T" as an official moniker/symbol, because it happens to suggest (in many languages, apparently)
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I agree that the legend is worth mentioning, but not at such length. The previous text seemed fine -- indeed, it could probably be cut a bit. If more info is worth immortalizing in the WP, perhaps more of the Snopes comments could be reported on in a
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As always, Hertz's comment epitomes incisiveness. A personal note: I avoid "blaze", "blazon", or indeed any fiery-sounding imagery when talking about books or libraries -- that's why I don't own a "Kindle". Who the hell came up with that name???
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If the claim that it is among the largest libraries in the world is going to be kept, either a reliable source must be found for this claim, or (less preferable) at least a comparison to other large libraries must be made.
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A less-quick google search shows that
Harvard also calls it "The Harry Elkins Widener Memorial Library", and calls it "Widener Library" in headlines and so on where the full name is awkward, with the full name in the body.
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with those in another. I removed that part of the sentence as not worth the discussion. The books in a main library building are generally only a part --sometimes a small part -- of the total holdings of the university.
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Is the
Widener Library really considered that large? The Harold B. Lee Library at BYU is significantly larger in terms of both amount of materials and shelf-space (as a single library building) than the Widener Library.
546:, even though that's what it's almost always called. Where a formal, and an informal, name are both in wide currency we may as well go with the formal (and less ambiguous -- there are other Widener Libraries) name.
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BYU's main library (single building) had 8½ million items in circulation as of 2005, has 98 miles of shelving, and is 665,000 square feet. In terms of size, that makes it about twice as big as this.
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Typically we would select a more concise common name over an official name. I agree that both are used, but I think the official name is used much less, since it is "awkward" as you note. Also, see
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I saw this, and while I can move it as an admin, I'm not going to move it. We use the name by which something is known, and
Widener Library is how this is known. Use WP:RM to get a decision.
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or the full official name (six words including the the), and both are apparently unique and unambiguous. I favor the simpler former over the more cumbersome latter. As
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is) there's no reason not to give the formal name priority. Do you still want to fuss about this, or will you deign to use your special powers to help things along here?
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Remember in old movies how cops and soldiers would end radio conversations with "Roger wilco"? I suddenly realized the other day that means "Will comply". Over and out.
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Hertz, thanks for your attention to the image/layout changes. Apparently you're seeing problems in certain browsers. If they continue please be sure to let me know.
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I thought you were an admin (who can do a "move over redirect" or whatever without the CSD trouble) but I see now you're not. Thanks for taking care of this.
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Also, the other one you mention is known as "Widener
University Library," or officially the "Wolfgram Memorial Library." Not much conflict there.
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To avoid my good faith comment being considered a self-imposed "rule" regarding the DYK-worthiness of this article, I'm going to post here.
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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a
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at the same time). So I think the choice is either the full name or the current name. Maybe in an hour I'll change my mind again.
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seems odd -- I've looked around and it doesn't seem to be used much (though searching is hobbled by the fact that when you google
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Hertz, can you rename to Harry Elkins Widener Memorial Library? There's that stupid double-redirect-axel-spin thing in the way.
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them myself, I hope that the writers take the time to remove some of the images they consider less important. —
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at Harvard that in order to prevent what befell Widener from happening to another student, all students of
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99:, it had nothing to do with Widener, and Harvard no longer administers a swimming test for students."
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is potentially ambiguous since there's another "Widener Library" i.e. the one at Widener University
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Frankly, it is of very secondary general importance to compare the number of books in a particular
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The "name by which it is known" principle applies where the formal name is relatively obscure e.g.
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807:. If you really want to dispute about wording, and ranking get these sorts of basics correct.
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already exists as a redirect, swapping it with the current name should be a piece of cake.
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Yes, because this urban myth is so widespread. It's even reported on by Snopes.com. —
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If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the
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Looking at it again in the fresh light of morning, I'm having second thoughts.
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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a
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510:- Quick Google search shows that Harvard and others call it Widener Library
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You're beginning to convince me, but I'd like to hear from the redoubtable
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262:. In light of the policy, this matter does deserve reconsideration.
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To the discussion in the section just prior to this one, I add that
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95:. While Harvard did require a swimming test of students in the
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before they are allowed to graduate as is actually the case at
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Hertz is way too nice a guy sometimes. Here's my response:
694:. Common name is definitely just the Widener Library. --
626:. Is the question what to call the article rather than
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a
622:You called and I am here, having climbed out of my
422:. No further edits should be made to this section.
726:. No further edits should be made to this section.
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601:first. In the meantime, how do you feel about
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630:? I certainly have no objections to either
562:Knowledge:Requested_moves#Malformed_requests
564:and see if you can fix this RM correctly.
408:The following is a closed discussion of a
279:move, but before I do, let's consider ."
513:. The long official title is not what
342:transit, transport, tunnel, tube, train
44:Do not edit the contents of this page.
672:Harry Elkins Widener Memorial Library
660:Harry Elkins Widener Memorial Library
462:Harry Elkins Widener Memorial Library
137:Swim test legend at U.S. universities
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427:The result of the move request was:
297:Another sensible candidate might be
83:are required to prove that they can
467:See the discussion above the banner
662:both seem familiar and right. But
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258:Thanks. I see what you mean, at
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401:Requested move 29 December 2014
770:University of Michigan Library
284:Liberty Enlightening the World
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794:BYU does not have 8 million
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759:but count by linear feet.
105:29 June 2005 20:29 (UTC)
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883:This was discussed here
878:03:28, 3 June 2014 (UTC)
719:Please do not modify it.
668:Widener Memorial Library
664:Widener Memorial Library
636:Widener Memorial Library
632:Widener Memorial Library
604:Widener Memorial Library
415:Please do not modify it.
299:Widener Memorial Library
542:States Congress called
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42:of past discussions.
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75:"There is an untrue
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101:Is this useful? --
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870:Crisco 1492
805:circulation
724:move review
517:suggests.
420:move review
36:This is an
696:Necrothesp
77:urban myth
640:Hertz1888
599:Hertz1888
429:not moved
319:Hertz1888
264:Hertz1888
202:Hertz1888
200:Will do.
173:Hertz1888
132:article,
111:Lowellian
61:Archive 1
844:building
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751:Macrakis
544:Congress
141:Macrakis
130:separate
93:Stanford
624:redoubt
444:Calidum
89:Cornell
39:archive
838:sense.
692:Oppose
508:Oppose
103:Wetman
70:"Myth"
800:items
515:WP:AT
250:talk
115:reply
97:1920s
16:<
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139:. --
134:e.g.
91:and
85:swim
850:DGG
810:DGG
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286:or
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