Talk:Widener Library/GA1

1264:(part of the GA criteria) says "editors are encouraged to seek a reasonable level of variety in the age, gender, and race of any people depicted. Adding multiple images with very similar content is less useful". I would prioritise the images in relevance to the library - so the floor plan and the plaque are useful; the pictures of people less so. The recommended route for lots of images is to put them in Commons; then people can browse through far more images than could be sustained in an article. 3339: 770:"His father George Dunton Widener was lost as well, but his mother Eleanor Elkins Widener survived." - needs a citation. Part of the GA criteria is that inline citations must be used for all facts that could be challenged or are contentious, and deaths and fates of people tend to count as such. Also, I'd suggest "also died" or "also perished" instead of "was lost as well" as the latter case sounds a bit too much like a euphemism. 4774:(Behind the card catalogs, and "barely large enough for a single table", was once a separate Radcliffe Reading Room, to which female students were restricted "for fear their presence would distract the studious Harvard men" in the Main Reading Room—though by World War II women "could go into the and use the encyclopedias and things like that there, if we stood up, but we couldn't sit down".) 3603: 3501: 3229: 2761: 1862: 1517: 953: 42: 3956: 3917: 3828: 3727: 3685: 3532: 3272: 3145: 3104: 3066: 3022: 2984: 2916: 2870: 2825: 2783: 2709: 2601: 2452: 2287: 2232: 2194: 2127: 2088: 2049: 1959: 1897: 1801: 1715: 1553: 1484: 1442: 1400: 1151: 1105: 1060: 878: 832: 785: 740: 522: 481: 403: 3870: 2639: 2353: 988: 320: 5381:

addressed (either by being fixed or convincing me it doesn't need doing), then the article should meet the GA criteria and the review can pass" I've attended to every point you've raised, so unless there's some point I've missed the obvious thing to do is pass it -- there's been way too much work put in here for it to be tossed away now.

4157:: "The template is intended for use when there is a general question of the verifiability of a statement, or when an editor believes that a reference verifying the statement should be provided. Other templates are available for other or more specific issues ... For example, claims that you think are incorrect should be tagged with 429:"a gift of the Widener family in 1944 and the object, in 1969, of a theft" - this reads a bit awkwardly. Since we need to trim the lead down, I'd probably cut "and the object" to the rest of the end of the paragraph, unless the 1969 theft is one of the most important facts about the library (I think it probably isn't) 4782:

would serve our purpose, but we never hoped to see such a library as this"). The Transcript continued: After the ceremony of presentation, the doors were thrown open, and both graduates and undergraduates had an opportunity to see the beauties and utilities of this important university acquisition.

4199:

as a fail in the immediate future. It doesn't matter if the nominator is the one adding the tags. For what it's worth, instead of using tags in this matter, I often create "Issues and errata" sections on the talk page for the very purpose you describe. You may want to think about doing this instead.

5450:

The cn has been fixed. A doesn't violate GACR. I asked you,"What copying of nonfree content? What required copyediting? What about the quotations has anything to do with NPOV?" and your only response was to raise something entirely different, which was "All I can really add is that the article as it

5231:

I do think some of this a little excessive, in particular footnotes E, H, J, and K . The two quotes in 2.1 are unnecessary altogether, the quote in 2.3 does not need indenting, And as a matter of style, I think that many of the paragraphs should be combined. For a subject like this, a choppy style

5177:

Of course we're closing the gap. All that's left is the idea that more of the quotes should be paraphrased. As far as I'm concerned they're fine, despite one editor's personal preference for paraphrasing, and I don't see where the guidelines favor that particular point of view. An important aspect of

4421:

I'm afraid I think I'm going to have to close the review at this stage. I really wanted to avoid doing this, as you have worked very hard on this, but the 7 day period for being "on hold" is up and there seems to be still quite a bit of work left to do. I did think about going through the article and

4198:

been passed as a GA with any kind of maintenance tag. In other words, if it isn't a pressing issue that demands immediate attention, use the talk page to make suggestions for improvement, not tags in the body of the article. A GA article should not have any tags, and if it does, it can be reassessed

3394:

regarding the Gutenberg Bible theft also includes "Jonas built herself a glass-walled office in the Museum of Comparative Zoology library so that she can see what's going on; she repeatedly drills her staff on correct behavior; and no one can go into the rare-book area alone." It might be nice to add

1667:

I understand the the main head is enought, but an important aspect of the library's story is the near-awe with which it was treated by the press. The subheads, and detail about this elaborately choreographed dedication, telegraph a sense of the fawning coverage and the lengths Harvard officials would

4966:

But before we continue on images, there's a puzzle that we need to penetrate, which is that I'm not seeing the phenomena you're talking about -- especially that all the image stack is pushing down the "bookplate" image. What browswer - screen size - zoom % are you using? In your WP preferences, what

4691:

Yes, opinions are involved here, but the only opinions that matter here are opinions about whether the GACR are adhered to. If you can't tell me what part of GACR (or the subsidiary guidelines it points to) is being violated by a given bit of the article, then it's not relevant to this review and we

5206:

As a further example, another editor says the article "has excessive amounts of unrelated information that would be a WP:COATRACK issue - such as "legends" not even about the library itself" i,e, the legends that Mrs. Widener wanted all future Harvardians to learn to swim, and/or arranged for there

5202:

devoted solely to the dedication of a college library. It's important to convey the sense of awe and reverence with which the library was received, and that's just as (maybe more) important than its physical dimensions and so on, and the quotes do that very effectively (while giving pleasure to the

5155:

think is, unfortunately, we don't seem to be closing the gap. I'm not going to close the review just yet, but with the seconder saying the review should be failed, I think in all honesty you're better off working on this in the background and letting somebody do a fresh review from scratch. I don't

5083:

It's not. You said you wanted the images more spaced out, so I did. Images can't be spaced out AND always relevant to the sections they end up in. However, I did put it there so that it would be near the image of the catalog card, which comes right after. Many readers will never have seen a bank of

4239:

I don't have time for this kind of silliness, so this will be my last and final comment. Up above, you made the extraordinary claim that "small numbers of and are allowable for GA". I am curious where and how you got this strange idea as it is manifestly false. Finally, I want to mention that I

4070:

I've checked the whole article now. Basically, when every action point is addressed (either by being fixed or convincing me it doesn't need doing), then the article should meet the GA criteria and the review can pass. Until then, I'll mark it as "on hold" to give you a chance to address everything.

3253:

Okay, I have part-paraphrased the quotation in question, which is what I've been getting at several times in the review. I'm not talking about removing the quotations or cutting down on their content at all. Rather, the quotations were not written with the Knowledge "house style" in mind, and hence

5259:

I rewrote to eliminate the first quote in 2.1, and ran in the quote in 2.3. I also killed notes E and J. However, I kept the last quote in 2.1, and note H, because I really feel that contemporary descriptions of the dedication, and of the "marvels" of the building itself (as seen at the time) fill

5192:

Another editor calls this "a flowery excuse to further make the library and its workings more important and grandiose." That's silly. This is an illustration of the respect given to, and pride taken in, institutions like libraries back then -- especially this one. The article sets the quote off to

4781:

In the Memorial Rooms, after a benediction by Bishop William Lawrence, a portrait of Harry Widener was unveiled, then remarks delivered by Senator Henry Cabot Lodge (speaking on "The Meaning of a Great Library"‍ on behalf of Eleanor Widener) and Lowell ("For years we have longed for a library that

4729:

issue - such as "legends" not even about the library itself. In terms of balance and scope, more attention is given to "Burglary and other incidents" than other aspects - like the design. The article is so wrapped up in itself that it comes off as pure puffery - another key aspect of the criteria.

2266:

Well, cryptic to everyone -- do you know what exactly is meant by, "The need of better toilet facilities has been pressed upon us ... by several rather distressing experiences"? He leaves the reader to puzzle about what exactly is meant, which is the essence of crypticality ... crypticallitousness

556:

Here I must disagree (about dropping it -- we certainly might merge it, as you say). First, the legends aren't just unproven, they're categorically false, and second, beyond the fact that poor Harry Widener "went down with the Old Canoe", the idea that Mrs. Widener insisted that all future Harvard

4636:

A little bit back you referred to "problems with excess copying of nonfree content, required copyediting, and the quotations not conforming to a neutral POV." What copying of nonfree content? What required copyediting? What about the quotations has anything to do with NPOV? You keep saying things

4535:

are two GAs I've done, and the reviews were good because they both involved substantial layout changes during the review. Have a look and see how quotations are structured and how images tend to be quite restricted to only a handful per section, with substantial space between them. Hopefully that

3441:

Well, if we just say "languages such as Icelandic" the reader is left to wonder what "such as" means -- languages spoken in cold countries? The source says "uncommon languages such as Icelandic", and the fact is Icelandic only has about 300,000 speakers total, so I'm not sure Bjork wouldn't agree

4787:

This is jumbled and coat-racking. It flips back and forth with strange syntax and is penetrated by parenthesizes of a questionable nature. It then concludes with another descriptive quote which for all intentions is a flowery excuse to further make the library and its workings more important and

4324:

has also criticised the number of quotations in the article. I wouldn't go quite as far as his thoughts, but I do stand by my earlier point that a lot of the quotes should be paraphrased, so the article has a more balanced tone that the reader would expect. I wasn't as bothered about this as the

4254:

What I tend to do in the case of is see if the information is important to meet the "broad in coverage" and "focused" criteria. If it isn't, I remove the text near the tag, which causes it to disappear. The article will then meet the GA criteria (all else being equal) and I can pass the review.

2095:

To say that the Widow Widener "started a relationship" right there at the ceremony would sound a bit unseemly, don't you think? There is, however, a little locked room off the Rotunda which the staff of the library are visibly uncomfortable talking about... The source says "met" so I've changed

5380:

You're free, as you have, to ask for other opinions, but as seen above to good points raised by DGG have been attended to, and the objections raised by another editor have been thoroughly rebutted. On January 4 you said, "I've checked the whole article now. Basically, when every action point is

4449:

I've done (I think) everything you've suggested (including a great deal that's not part of the GA criteria) with minor exceptions I've explained and you've agreed to. This took a lot of time. I don't mind, because it's improved the article greatly, but it's had the effect of dragging things out

1192:

I really think it should stay as is. It does double-duty on two different points: reinforcing Mrs. Widener's "hands on" approach and insistence on certain things, and the fact that the actual cost is private and still not really known. The quote happens to handle both points well, and amusingly

4668:

where anyone is welcome to comment. Ultimately, a review of this nature has to come down to the opinions of two people, and while that works most of the time, occasionally things fall through the cracks. I don't think we're going to get any further without an input from a third party on this.

3474:

I think what's really meant is something like "exotic" or "obscure" (remember, what the guy seemed preoccupied with was cabalistic stuff like chemistry and early church writings) but on reconsideration let's just say "languages such as Icelandic" and let the reader make of it what he will.

4684:"The article as it stands just doesn't quite conform to the layout I would expect of most GAs I read." See, this is what I'm talking about. You're supposed to be reviewing against the GACR, not against what you expect or what you've seen in other articles. GACR requires conformance with 5425:

The review has gone on as long as it has because most of the points you raised along the way aren't relevant to GACR. As discussed before, I've been very happy to adopt those ideas because they have improved the article. But you can't then turn around and say the review is too long.

1469:"250 ft by 200 ft by 80 ft" - for the benefit of Canadians and other foreign countries, it would be helpful to convert these distances into metres, per the square foot figure further on in the sentence. Also, as above, the link to the source doesn't appear to have these figures in it 4771:

Essentially - if you are going to use a quote, make it count. So many of the quotes being used are best handled in paraphrasing. The background section uses a chopped up quote about Gore Hall, this would be a good example since it is already close to paraphrasing. Another would be

4240:

am curious why you would argue for the weakening of our standards and criteria when the very notion of a review is intended to strengthen and improve an article. I don't have the free time required to figure out this high strangeness, but I am very disappointed in your approach.

4623:

The club was formed in 1891 as Ashford United but was renamed to Ashford Railway Works in 1909 before settling on the name "Town" in 1930. The club was reformed in 2011 after financial difficulties, including the resignation of owner Tony Betteridge and became known once more as

4617:

The Borough of Ashford lies on the eastern edge of the ancient forest of "Andredsweald" or "Anderida". Brandon Lewis, High Streets Minister said he would "encourage all businesses in Ashford to sign up and be part of this excellent opportunity to boost their trade in the town

4752:- can you be a little more specific? EEng is working through the quotations at the moment, and hopefully that will resolve most of the concerns. Unfortunately your opinion of the content is a little woolly and difficult to address unless you go into specifics, I'm afraid. 816:"Gore Hall (Harvard's grossly overburdened existing library)" - "grossly overburdened" is too strong and should be toned down. Possibly in this case it would be simpler to leave it out, just saying "Harvard's existing library" and let the footnote deal with the problems 1177:"To Mrs. Widener...." - this quotation is a little overlong, and may invite complaints of close paraphrasing. I'd probably go for the section starting "no one at Harvard ever knew the exact cost" to the end and format it as an inline quotation with the rest of the prose. 5052:

The whole point is to show that suppliers were falling all over themselves to let potential customers know that their product had been selected for this project. There's even a floor-polishing equipment manufacturer that advertised that their floor-polishing machine was

2056:

To my surprise this looks good as modified. But I've retain the bullets indicating linebreaks in the original, and imputed capitalization, because without these the inscription comes across as an illiterate run-on. If you can improve on this I'd certainly welcome it.

4088:

I've had a go at putting images into a format that works okay on my browser into the "Background" section. Unfortunately it means most have had to be commented out, but if you are okay with what I've done there, I can go through the rest. The source markup is, well,

3574:

I thought about this at length when I first wrote the section. I don't see how including his name adds to the reader's understanding of the subject, and since this sad person is still alive I don't see what's gained by drawing further attention to him. What do you

4883:

instead of helping out. Are you OK with the images (at least for the purposes of this review)? You'll notice I dropped the headshot of Mrs. Widener, and there's a good deal more text in the Background section than there was when you did your original run-through.

4838:

Ritchie, can you go through and just add {{done}} to whichever points you think are handled but not yet explicitly closed? Then we can handle the few that are left, including quotes and images. ME123, any smartass assistance you can render will be appreciated.

4917:

is supposed to be at the start of "Burglary and other incidents" but instead it appears towards the end of the section, because there's not enough space on screen to accomodate all the right-facing images from earlier. This is what I was getting at regarding

4118:". A means "this statement has been challenged", and therefore does not meet this part of the GA criteria. However, small amounts of unsourced content (where they are obvious things not likely to be challenged eg: "Harvard is a university in Cambridge, MA") 4912:

needs a caption, and for the remainder, I think all the ones on the right hand size from "Conception and gift" down to "Burglary and other incidents" could benefit from being reduced in size, as at the moment they appear one after the other without a gap.

5373:

The Good article (GA) process is intentionally lightweight. Anyone, including unregistered users, can nominate an article and (subject to the next two paragraphs) any registered user can review: multiple votes, consensus building, and committees are not

4479:. You may be seeing something different because of a different browser or screen size or whatever, but surely it's a minimum for you to explain what problem you're seeing. (One of the questions I tagged for your response above was exactly about this.) 5197:

that attitude for the reader to observe -- to see this as the article itself puffing the library's "beauties and utilities" shows a complete failure of critical literacy. You would not, today, find a full-page spread (front page, if I recall) in the

663:"In 1912 Harry Elkins Widener—scion of two of the wealthiest families in America" - might be easier to say "descendent" instead of "scion". Additionally, what has the "Mrs. A. H. Rice Dies in a Paris Store" in the citation got to do with this fact? 2857:"at times color-coded lines and shoeprints have been applied to the floors to guide the bewildered" - this sits better as a separate sentence, and I don't think "bewildered" is an appropriate word to use, maybe "newcomers" or "first-time visitors"? 3758:

That's the main prose done. Just the footnotes and some other citations to checked, and the review will be complete. Two main themes I see throughout are the overuse of quotations and images, which will need to be managed in some way. More later.

5214:

Even if there's more debate to be had on the quotes, it's not relevant to this review. "Concise and well-written" doesn't mean "paraphrase most or all quotes". This is a matter of judgment which can be further hashed out during normal editing.

544:"Campus legends .... are without foundation." - I'd probably leave this out of the lead, or merge it with another paragraph. If so, it would probably be better written something like "The campus has several unproven legends, including...." 4475:

With all due respect, I don't see how "too many images" come under the criteria, and even assuming it does, it's a matter for discussion what constitutes "too many". The only editor (other than you and me) to comment likes it like it is

4688:. Can you tell me what about the article is out of conformance with that. Please don't answer by pointing to some other article you think I should look at. Just tell me, specifically by section #, what requirement of LAYOUT is violated. 4453:

I've been waiting several days for you to give the OK in the several places above I asked for it, after which I thought we'd review where we are and finish up (especially figuring out how to resolve the questions of the quotes and the

4958:

text remains fixed, and with a narrow box the caption part simply has to expand vertically. Further, narrow caption boxes mean more linebreaks, and this means more space on any given line is wasted as white space. Thus, reducing the

4562:

In any case, please don't take the close here as an indication that your efforts have been wasted, or that this article will never reach GA. That just isn't the case, and I'm glad you've continued to work on the existing comments.

4949:

Beyond that, I've taken a baby step by reducing most (not all) the images about 10%, but this brings up a new problem: counterintuitively, this frequently increases the vertical height of the image box, because while reducing the

5461:

we talked about the quotes, and DGG dropped by to comment on that, and I incorporated most of his suggestions (explaining why I rejected two of them). You haven't said anything about why there are any problems now there, either.

4167:..." I'm the one who added the , and I'm also the one who wrote the text, and I'm certainly not challenging material I myself wrote. I'm just reminding myself and other editors that a source should be supplied sooner or later. 4550:

I suspect that once the quotations have been replaced with straight paraphrasing, the prose will be sufficiently different that it would be beneficial to start a fresh GA review from scratch. This is exactly what we did with

4034:

In this particular case: an essential part of the article is communicating the way the building was seen as "state-of-the-art" for the time. The quoted passage (which is, of course, PD) shows the attitudes of the time ("Wow!

4909: 4692:

should move on to your next concern. After the review is over I'd be very happy to work with you on any aspect of the article you're interested in improving, but for now I must ask you to stick to the GA requirements alone.

4465:, and (b) twice asked for anyone to simply explain what in the criteria has anything to do with e.g. , and got no answer at all. If we have to remove it I will, but first I'd like to understand why. Doesn't that seem fair? 5444:

There are still too many quotations and images. There is discussion upthread as to why this is, due to problems with excess copying of nonfree content, required copyediting, and the quotations not conforming to a neutral

4416:

1651:

The newspaper source's title should simply be "Windener is Dedicated" - I wouldn't worry about the subtitles. As long as you've got the newspaper name, the date, and the page number, that's enough detail to verify the

4116:

all in-line citations are from reliable sources, including those for direct quotations, statistics, published opinion, counter-intuitive or controversial statements that are challenged or likely to be challenged

466:"could not enter without feeling that she ought to carry a compass, a sandwich, and a whistle." - quotations in the lead generally want a source (this is just a technical thing, I see there is one in the body) 5036: 4607:

In the 16th and 17th centuries, Ashford became known for nonconformism. A local resident, John Brown was executed for heresy in 1511, and may have inspired the later namesake of the song "John Brown's Body"

3519:"bombings of libraries and a local bank were promised" - maybe "threatened" would be a better word. One source claims the blackmailer intended to use cyanide poisoning, which could be added to the article. 5280:

Another story, holding that Eleanor Widener donated a further sum to underwrite perpetual availability of ice cream (purportedly Harry Widener's favorite dessert) in Harvard dining halls, is also without

4515:

Let me clear up a few things first. I don't like the concept of "failing" a GA review - that's not nice and aside from a "get out of here" quickfail, it's not true. It simply means (in my view) there is

3009:"Johnson's own Bible" - the source also says "it was used so much by its owner that several pages were worn out and Johnson copied them over in his own writing." which might be worth adding as a footnote 197:, for an 18K prose article, the lead should be about 2 paragraphs, so the current lead will need to be slimmed down a bit. Not sure what should go yet until I've digested the rest of the article, though 5186:

After the ceremony of presentation, the doors were thrown open, and both graduates and undergraduates had an opportunity to see the beauties and utilities of this important university acquisition.

1534:

I don't believe the "(see below)" link is generally accepted. This is because Knowledge content can be printed and republished elsewhere (and I've seen it happen), at which point the context is lost.

351:

to try to hint at the relationship between the two as best possible given these limitations, but I don't think we should give two links, right next to each other, that take the reader the same place.

4589:. You seem to take it as a given that paraphrasing is preferred. Why? Where do you get this idea that our readers can't read (or won't want to read) well-written material from 100 years ago? You say 4302:

In the meantime, there are a few "Ritchie, are you OK with this..."-type bumps waiting for you above. Can you take a look at them? I just want to be clear you're OK with everything I've done so far.

1090:"Harvard president Abbott Lawrence Lowell confided privately" - I think this clause would sit better as "Harvard President Abbott Lawrence Lowell privately said" and at the start of the sentence 1696:"believed at the time (though no longer believed)" - I wouldn't worry about the text in brackets, the context to me makes it obvious that it was believed to be true but is no longer, otherwise 5067: 3991:

I haven't been able to determine which uncle exactly this is, and when the six years is measured from. I will someday, but it will take some work. Small numbers of and are allowable for GA.

5007: 1219:

The picture of Eleanor Elkins Widener needs it caption expanding to explain who she is. For a GA, a reader should be able to tell what a picture's relevance is without looking at the article

4358:

That's not part of the GA criteria, as far as I was aware. And I was kind of hoping a bot or gnome would have done it in the last week. If there are no takers, muggins here will have a go.

3091:"the petty cash book kept by Dickens as a young law clerk" - I think this needs to go next to the mention of Dickens earlier in the prose, possibly within brackets and adding "including" 4482:

And you've said nothing about nonfree content -- in any event, almost all the quoted material is PD, what isn't is clearly fair-use, so again it's just a question of judgment we should

5260:

out its place in popular perception of the time. I also kept K because I think it needs to be clear that there are some things Widener (and, in fact, Harvard overall) doesn't collect.

1946:"The central Memorial Rooms—an outer Rotunda housing memorabilia" - I can't find the word "Rotunda" in the source given. As above, the quotation would sit better as paraphrased prose. 5003: 2971:"a copy of Poems written by Wil. Shake-speare, gent. (1640) in its original sheepskin binding" - does this source have a page number or other identifier so it can be easily verified? 1511:"In the building's center ... are the Widener Memorial Rooms (see below)." I'd recommend putting this part of the sentence up front, and then putting the rest in a separate sentence. 5283:

is even in this article because it is not about the library at all. The entire "Swim-requirement, ice-cream, and other legends" section is without actual use to the article at all.

4973:

setting? (Also, if it's IE, what text size are you using -- medium, larger, etc.). I have a very wide screen, which should make these problems worse, but I'm still not seeing it.

273:"vast and cavernous" - appreciate this is sourced correctly but the citation mid sentence jumps out, might it be simpler to say "extensive" instead (without quotation and source) 442:

Further down you seem to have changed your mind and decided that the theft indeed belongs in the lead (which I've trimmed in other ways). I've rephrased this passage as well.

5346:, but the review has been going for two and a half weeks, which is something of a marathon by GA standards, and it really is time I gave my full attention to something else. 679:

is better -- his mother and his father, separately, were prime heirs of two of the greatest American fortunes of the time, and HEW was the oldest son produced by this union.

4730:

EEng has crafted an article which is so full of itself that it comes across as snobbish and overtly grandiose. It is one of the few articles that actually pains me to read.

1827:

This section also has too many images. On a 1920x1200 laptop, there's a huge gap of text which makes it difficult to read the prose without having to scroll down accurately

4914: 3458:

How about "little-studied" (with the implication there that Icelandic is not a popular language to study at Harvard, which I think is the point trying to be made here).

2415:

isn't a euphemism but rather standard imagery. What I should do is consult the source (which spends several pages on this, as I recall) but in the meantime how about

5178:

the subject is the way this new building was presented in the press, touted as a modern marvel, etc etc. Case in point: the following quotation, from the end of the

2320:"And librarian Archibald Cary Coolidge wrote to J. P. Morgan, Jr.," - presumably what follows a quotation, in which case it must be attributed to an inline citation 47: 1449:

I changed it to "the Library", but honestly I don't see how to reorder the elements of the sentence as you suggest. Make a bold edit if you have something in mind.

1427:"the Harry Elkins Widener Memorial Library" - since the library name has been explained, I'd reduce this to "The library" and put it at the start of the sentence 80: 5469:. I think it's fair, at this point, to insist that this be something you've raised already, so please quote something you actually said earlier in the review. 4652:

All I can really add is that the article as it stands just doesn't quite conform to the layout I would expect of most GAs I read. For a different example, try

2363:

is definitely the right word. There have been angry denunciations at faculty meetings, public accusations of favoritism, decades-long feuds, etc. As the great

4660:

and has a few more quotations. Alternatively, if you think the result of a GA review has been unfair or incorrect, you are within your rights to take it to a

1988:"(For many years..." - I wouldn't worry about putting this in brackets. Again, would be beneficial to paraphrase the quotation rather than explicitly using it 70: 4283:

is pretty much unanimous that the review won't pass until all tags are addressed one way or another. Do you have any way of correcting the issues in them?

3560:

Since we now know via reliable sources that "The Slasher"'s real name was Stephen Womack, that should be mentioned in the article, and it does not violate

4612:

The relevant verse is: "True, a new mistress now I chase, / The first foe in the field; / And with a stronger faith embrace / A sword, a horse, a shield."

4547:. Most PD content is getting on for 100 years old, if not older than that already, and English that the modern Knowledge reader recognises has changed. 4422:

directly fixing everything myself, but it's just too much of a slog. I would recommended possibly finding a simpler topic to take to GA first, such as

2903:"As of 1997 the number of volumes reshelved each year was about 600,000" - suggest "As of 1997, the library reshelved around 600,000 volumes a year" 126: 4946:-- an exterior shot and a floorplan -- are sufficiently self-explanatory, given they're in the section describing the exterior and the floorplan! 4963:

param can actually make the image boxes taller overall! I've tried to trim the captions a bit here and there as well to ameleorate this problem.

1334:

Well, I'm only partway through, but if I've got this far the odds are pretty likely it will go to "on hold" rather than "fail" so don't panic!

282:

The building's gigantic interior is its most striking physical feature, universally commented on, and "extensive" doesn't express that at all.

5402:

A 70K GA review is anything but lightweight! Obviously you weren't going to agree on this - we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.

929:

I understand about tumblr in general of course, but look closer: this is an official blog of the library, maintained by its librarians -- see

1998:

Again, we'll have to come back to the quotes question. Leaving those in place for now, the parentheses (or, as you foreigners call them, the

1879:

No, this now appears to be resolved. The article is still a little bit top-heavy with images, but it's not too far off being GA quality now.

122: 4524:. I did give two examples of where I had fixed up quotations and images, and hoped (possibly erroneously) that the rest would be sorted out. 52: 5457:

you raised some questions about image placement, I answered those, and you said nothing to suggest those answers weren't satisfactory. And

5156:

think I've done a GA review this long either in terms of time or content, and it seems like I'd have to start all over again from scratch.

1617:

As before, the quotation would sit better as paraphrased prose. Generally, I find quotations are best used for opinions that would violate

4493:

There's no fixed 7-day hold period, so why the hurry? It's not like you and I have hit an impasse. I really need to ask you to reconsider.

2485:

Taking another break - we'll get there. I'm more convinced now though, that something about book theft should go in the lead. More later.

917:

for a GA, as broadly speaking anyone can write anything the like on it. I'm sure a better source can be found without too much difficulty.

3369:

Unfortunately this article's already had its DYK star turn. Are you suggesting this could be its own article? I guess maybe -- we've got

213:

it back down later, so let's do that together after we've finished with the rest of the article -- when we'll have the best perspective.

2219:"Nonetheless certain deficiencies were noted almost immediately" - "almost immediately" is a little strong, how about "were soon noted" 107: 4139:

does not mean the content has been challenged, just that someone thinks a source should be supplied, which is quite a different thing.

1320:

Like any parent, I'm hurt, angry, and resentful at all this unfair criticism of my perfect child. Keep it up -- this is very healthy!

4802:

Thanks, Chris. I think this comes under the general scope of sorting out the quotations, so when that's done I'll take another look.

4527:

To try and move things forward, what I would recommend doing is having a look at some other GAs that are rich in quotes and images -

4110:

I would like some good evidence that " Small numbers of and are allowable for GA" as my experience has shown this is not the case.

2367:

said, "The three purposes of the University? - To provide sex for the students, sports for the alumni, and parking for the faculty."

5451:

stands just doesn't quite conform to the layout I would expect of most GAs I read" -- and that has nothing to do with GACR either.

5367: 4343:

Just wanted to point out that there are several dozen error messages in the reference section that need to be adressed. Sincerely,

2075:"Eleanor Widener had made the acquaintance" - this sounds like a euphemism, maybe "had started a relationship with" would be better 4788:

grandiose. The sheer number and tone collectively makes this article not neutral and not a disinterested presentation of a topic.

4555:, where I did GA1, failed it due to a lack of broad coverage, helped improve the content, put it up for GA2 a few weeks later and 5410: 5354: 5164: 4930: 4862: 4810: 4760: 4677: 4571: 4559:

passed it as a GA in about 24 hours. I don't see any reason why we can't do the same here, as it seems to have worked quite well.

4438: 4366: 4333: 4291: 4263: 4130: 4101: 4079: 3767: 3635: 3466: 3309: 3262: 2765:

Ritchie, can we let this slide for now? It will take me some time to track this down, it seems. Small #s of are allowed for GA.

2535: 2493: 2442: 2395: 2305: 1887: 1342: 1312: 1018: 591: 371: 156: 99: 5300:. The "legends" material absolutely belongs, because the claim is these were conditions of Mrs. Widener's gift of the library. 2588:

You shouldn't link external images in articles. If the image can't be copied to WP or Commons, it's probably for a good reason.

75: 4597:

are "rich in quotes", but they're not. These are, literally, the only "quotations" of any kind in the entire Ashford article:

4457:

Meanwhile, you may think I'm joking re tags being OK, but the fact is that over at Talk:GA I've (a) quoted a guideline saying

4987:

I've just done a lot of juggling and resizing of images, and dropped one or two more. Whatcha think now? -- EEng, January 17

4174:

not a challenge to the material in any way. It just means "Perhaps someone can explain this better, or supply more detail."

2036:"Above the Rotunda entrance is inscribed" - put this quotation in the standard font, and inline with the rest of the prose 4486:-- assuming it comes under GACR in the first place. And where did you say anything about a POV problem with the quotes? 2737:"along four miles (6 km) of aisles" - there are many facts and figures in the source given, but none are for four miles 863:"A number of stipulations accompanied this gift" - might be easier to write as "The will indicated some stipulations" 564:). Just a guess, but I'd bet that curiosity about this is the most frequent single reason people visit the article. 557:

men learn to swim is undoubtedly the story most often repeated story about the place (well, the most often-repeated

995:

As the sentence is structured it's the firm (Trumbauer & Associates) not the man (Trumbauer) that built them.

606:

Let's come back to the lead, and the remaining points above, after we've gone through the rest of the article. OK?

2383:

physical pain the administrators heads (unless it was, of course, from banging them against brick walls). So per

1839:

If you're still seeing this problem, can you describe it more precisely, plus say what browser etc. you're using?

347:(long story) but for the moment they're covered by the same article, and thus the redirect. You'll see I've used 5288: 4793: 4735: 4721:

The article fails 1a because the prose is not clear and concise, thus it is not well-written. For this reason,

4151: 2547: 2839:

needs to be in there somewhere to connect the two opposing statements, but I've reworded. See if you like it.

4143:

means someone asserting that the statement is unverifiable i.e. that no source exists, whereas simply means

2885:-- since one of the sources is entitled "Dazed and Confused in Widener" I think that's justified, don't you? 2256:"wrote cryptically in 1918" - don't think the "cryptically" is necessary here (cryptically in whose opinion?) 303: 3356: 4653: 1161: 1039: 718: 691: 3405:

Amazing, isn't it, how much source material there is here. Let's circle back to this when we're past GA.

2626:

among the world's five "megalibraries" - the information about the others would sit better in a footnote

2271:.) You have to admit it's rather amusing. I'd rather leave it unless you feel strongly. Or we could say 5408: 5352: 5162: 4928: 4860: 4808: 4758: 4675: 4569: 4552: 4436: 4364: 4331: 4289: 4261: 4128: 4099: 4077: 3944:

I - "the lamp on the desk an (unsigned) Tiffany" - worth explaining what "Tiffany" is in this context

3765: 3633: 3464: 3307: 3260: 2533: 2491: 2440: 2393: 2303: 1885: 1340: 1310: 1261: 1256:

This section has too many images, which dominate the text. I appreciate all are out of copyright and

1016: 589: 369: 234: 194: 150: 115: 17: 4403: 2181:

I think the first quotation can be more or less paraphrased "as is" without the need for quote marks

5284: 4876: 4854:

There was one copyedit, which I've done - everything else outstanding is from "Summary" downwards.

4833: 4789: 4747: 4731: 4696: 4319: 4245: 4204: 3338: 2543: 2384: 4726: 4280: 3561: 2340:"has been a longstanding headache for library administrators" - suggest "a longstanding problem" 5384:

After tha, if some other editor then thinks you've made a mistake he's free to raise it at GAR.

909:"including that the building's architects be the firm of Horace Trumbauer & Associates" - 2678:

Let's you and I meet with pistols at dawn to resolve this quotation question once and for all.

4875:

Wow! All those beautiful purple and green collapse boxes! Thanks for slogging through it all.

3050: 3197:

For the first quotation, I would trim it back to "There is absolutely no evidence..." onwards

3132:

which has the same policy describes availability as "a genuine need to use its collections".)

1010:. Which is strange because to me it looked wrong, but according to grammar rules it's right. 930: 694:, and don't miss the part about going up the Amazon in the custom yacht, and the cannibals. 4423: 4348: 4161: 3370: 1535: 335:-- they hired some stupid brand management firm or something to make the dumb name change). 5342:

bring it back here for another GA. I know it sounds like clipboard wielding, and we should

5278:. Some notes like reference O are inappropriate and entirely off topic. I have no idea why 5211:, who is peculiarly qualified to opine on whether those do or don't belong in this article. 3207:

Try it yourself and I think you'll see why that won't work (unless I'm missing something).

1621:

if presented as facts, or for "smoking gun" evidence of a claim without taking sides on it.

5403: 5347: 5330:

Okay, I think I'm going to have to admit defeat and despite EEng's best efforts, there is

5157: 5123: 5119: 4991: 4923: 4855: 4829: 4803: 4753: 4722: 4670: 4564: 4431: 4359: 4326: 4284: 4256: 4123: 4111: 4094: 4072: 3760: 3672:"—the first since the building opened—" - I think brackets would work better than dashes 3628: 3459: 3347: 3302: 3255: 3129: 3046: 2528: 2486: 2435: 2388: 2298: 1880: 1335: 1305: 1035:"which had built several mansions for both the Elkins and the Widener families" - another 1011: 584: 364: 328: 146: 92: 4725:

applies. The article also has excessive amounts of unrelated information that would be a

4539:

I think I've given you the wrong end of the stick regarding PD content. Just because you

885:

Well, the stipulations weren't in the will -- they were Mrs. Widener's. I changed it to

5474: 5389: 5305: 5265: 5220: 5133: 4978: 4889: 4844: 4704: 4642: 4630: 4556: 4502: 4378: 4307: 4241: 4230: 4218: 4200: 4182: 4044: 4025: 3996: 3967: 3929: 3886: 3840: 3738: 3701: 3611: 3586: 3544: 3509: 3480: 3451: 3410: 3378: 3343: 3283: 3237: 3212: 3162: 3115: 3078: 3033: 2996: 2933: 2890: 2844: 2795: 2770: 2752: 2721: 2683: 2655: 2613: 2517: 2463: 2424: 2387:(which is part of the GA criteria), a different, non-metaphorical word should be used. 2372: 2280: 2243: 2206: 2144: 2101: 2062: 2019: 2007: 1975: 1870: 1850: 1812: 1771: 1735: 1675: 1618: 1571: 1526: 1521:

I don't see a way of doing this. Feel free to show what you have in mind, if you like.

1496: 1454: 1412: 1325: 1287: 1237: 1198: 1121: 1071: 1000: 962: 937: 894: 844: 801: 751: 699: 617: 569: 492: 447: 414: 356: 287: 258: 218: 4316:

I need an hour or so to go through everything thoroughly. In the meantime, I see that

683:

carries the connotation that the uniting of these fortunes was a few generations back.

5343: 5239: 4939: 4919: 4661: 4594: 4590: 4532: 4528: 4194:

I just want to pop in here and say that there isn't any evidence that an article has

3254:

it would be beneficial to copyedit them, while still retaining the original meaning.

1786:

Is the picture of Widener here the one in the Memorial Rooms? If so, it should say so

1722:

Well, we can't just say "believed to be", because that implies it's still believed.

5335: 5085: 4665: 4657: 4430:

been improved and I really don't want the closure to sour your experience of this.

4407: 4325:

tags, as I knew I could fix that issue myself, and indeed have done a few already.

3856: 3391: 2002:) are appropriate since we are temporarily interrupting the newspaper's narrative. 914: 5297:

The "pile of stones and rubble" citation is given directly at the start of note D

1007: 4344: 2877:

It's definitely not just newcomers -- I've added a source on that. I've changed

562: 388:"Widener Library's holdings" - might be simpler to say "The library's holdings" 5478: 5412: 5393: 5356: 5334:

to pass this as a GA at this time. What I would recommend doing is creating a

5309: 5292: 5269: 5243: 5224: 5166: 5137: 4982: 4932: 4893: 4864: 4848: 4812: 4797: 4762: 4739: 4708: 4685: 4679: 4646: 4573: 4506: 4440: 4382: 4368: 4352: 4335: 4311: 4293: 4265: 4249: 4234: 4208: 4186: 4132: 4103: 4081: 4048: 4029: 4000: 3971: 3933: 3890: 3844: 3769: 3742: 3637: 3615: 3602: 3590: 3548: 3513: 3500: 3484: 3468: 3311: 3287: 3264: 3241: 3228: 3216: 2937: 2799: 2774: 2760: 2725: 2551: 2537: 2521: 2495: 2467: 2444: 2428: 2397: 2364: 2307: 2148: 2023: 1889: 1874: 1861: 1854: 1679: 1575: 1516: 1344: 1329: 1314: 1291: 1241: 1202: 1075: 1020: 966: 952: 848: 755: 621: 593: 451: 373: 291: 160: 2527:

There is, but I speculated it could be removed. I'm now un-speculating that.

1382: 973:"which had built several mansions" - suggest "who had built several mansions" 233:"The Harry Elkins Widener Memorial Library" - since "Widener Library" is the 5470: 5385: 5301: 5261: 5216: 5129: 4974: 4885: 4840: 4700: 4638: 4498: 4374: 4303: 4226: 4178: 4040: 4021: 3992: 3963: 3925: 3902: 3882: 3836: 3734: 3697: 3607: 3582: 3540: 3505: 3476: 3447: 3406: 3374: 3279: 3233: 3208: 3158: 3111: 3074: 3029: 2992: 2929: 2886: 2840: 2791: 2766: 2748: 2717: 2679: 2651: 2609: 2513: 2459: 2420: 2368: 2276: 2239: 2202: 2140: 2097: 2058: 2015: 2003: 1971: 1866: 1846: 1808: 1767: 1731: 1671: 1567: 1522: 1492: 1450: 1408: 1321: 1283: 1233: 1194: 1117: 1067: 996: 958: 933: 890: 840: 797: 747: 695: 613: 565: 507:"In the 1990s an epidemic of books" - what does "an epidemic of books" mean? 488: 443: 410: 352: 283: 254: 214: 3128:"a bona fide research need" - suggest "a genuine research need" (IIRC, the 249:

There's a discussion right now about whether the article should be renamed

5105:

there and I didn't notice, but I think they should be represented as prose

4776:

which is a jumble. Though this is a more of what I was trying to indicate:

4426:, as this does look like a tough nut to crack. All that said, the article 4225:

may run afoul of the WP:V criterion -- and suppose we're talking about .)

3901:

I think footnote D has far too much information and belongs in a separate

2330:

The source is cited in the note just after the parenthetical that follows.

2114:"who died on the Titanic as well" - suggest "who also died on the Titanic" 1276:

Above are just the quick points I was able to address tonight. Keep going!

5338:

and inviting all interested parties in there to thrash out the problems,

5256:

I did a pass over and you're right about merging some of the paragraphs.

5234: 5208: 4629:

That's extensive use of quotations??? But most importantly, what in the

3428: 3073:

Changed text for Cruikshank links. Not sure what you mean about Dickens.

4910:

File:HarvardUniversity WidenerLibrary SecondFloorPlan SneadIronWorks.jpg

4450:

greatly compared to the time it would take if we just stuck to the GACR.

4122:

be acceptable for a GA, which may be what you're getting confused with.

2812:"Though until a recent renovation" - I don't think "though" is necessary 4299:

Well, we'll see what happens there. You'll notice the s are down to 1.

2747:

Hmmm... I've changed this to until I can figure our where I got this.

690:

Read on to find out how Mrs. Widener later became Mrs. Rice -- more at

1560:

Well, it's a little awkward but I've make the link textually explicit.

5023:

They're not supposed to. They form a sequence from outside to inside.

2201:, though I've kept the quotes on two terms readers may find unusual. 910: 5362:

GA is not a consensus process. It's just meant to be the opinion of

4999:

Okay, things are getting better, but current problems I think are :

3350:", denies accusations of speaking "unusual" languages. Like English. 2696:"It's 3.5 million volumes" - same problem with this source as before 2608:

Agree it doesn't add much. A helpful editor has already removed it.

1726:

moderately distances itself from continued belief, and would be OK.

3337: 1193:(there aren't many people Harvard officials are "terrified" of!). 5037:

File:HarvardUniversity WidenerLibrary SneadAdvertisement 1915.jpg

4221:

criteria 1-6 is that? (Let's leave aside e.g. -- which at least

5465:

Now then... If you're going to fail the review, you need to say

5274:

Still some quotes are not cited or appear in there source like

4602:

Cade is shown conversing with "Dick, the Butcher from Ashford".

4468:

The two areas we've been putting off are images and quotations.

4039:") and paraphrasing would simply drain all the awe out of it. 1970:. We're going to have to have a larger discussion re quotes. 1754:- it looks like a notable book that ought to have an article. 5084:

catalog drawers, much less a catalog card. I think I linked

2646:

Without listing the other libraries readers won't know what

5068:

File:HarvardUniversity WidenerLibrary CardCatalogs 1915.jpg

4942:-- see the lead), so it seems to me that the two images at 4093:, but don't fret, none of that is part of the GA criteria! 887:

To this gift Mrs. Widener attached a number of stipulations

237:, best to put "commonly known as the Widener Library" here. 5008:

File:Widener Library, Harvard University, Cambridge MA.jpg

3427:

might the Icelandic is an unusual language, but I suspect

2014:

Actually, I've changed it around to eliminate the parens.

3539:, and cyanide is always a yummy addition to any article. 3395:

some more of that source into this section of the article

714:"avid and knowledgeable bibliophile"‍ - this is tagged 4536:

will give you some idea as to what I'm getting at above.

2379:

Understand all of that, but I don't believe they caused

1381:"At Harvard's "geographical and intellectual heart"" - 5004:

File:HarvardUniversity WidenerLibrary Reading c1915.jpg

4954:

width reduces its height proportionally, the amount of

4395:

Okay, I've looked back through the article, and now...

134: 103: 5207:

to always be ice cream at Harvard meals. I'm pinging

4922:- there are lots of images but they're spaced evenly. 4114:

point 2 ("Factually accurate and verifiable") - says "

1668:

go to give Mrs. Widener the grand ceremony she wanted.

302:"Harvard College Libraries" - should be wikilinked to 5039:

could do with being cropped to just show the picture

4011:

L - the large quotation would be better paraphrased.

2267:... whatever. (An earlier version said he'd written 724:

and a general rule of thumb is that GAs are tag-free

5101:There are some lists there. Can't remember if they 5120:Widener_Library#Departmental_and_special_libraries 4020:We still need to have that talk about quotations. 327:Unfortunately that turns out to redirect to "the" 4915:File:HarvardCollegeLibrary HardLaborBookplate.jpg 4402:There is still one left. I can cite the fact to 2668:As above, keep the quotations down and paraphrase 343:) is a different (though related) thing from the 4399:I'm happy with everything reported by EEng above 3232:Ritchie, can you show me what you mean on this? 1730:emphasizes better that the belief is no longer. 5088:while I was at it, in one or the other caption. 4779: 3877:That's the way it's supposed to be -- the word 331:(which is what, until recently, was called the 5421:Still waiting to hear what exactly needs doing 5298: 5257: 5250: 4880: 4477: 3805: 2883:to assist patrons who have lost their bearings 531:In the 1990s an epidemic of mutilated books... 4938:Well, not every image has to have a caption ( 3816:A and F - quotations should be in normal font 3431:won't agree with you! I'd leave out "unusual" 3423:"unusual languages such as Icelandic" - well 8: 4585:paraphrase something, it doesn't follow you 2096:"made the acquaintance of" to simply "met". 5118:If you're talking about the bullet list at 3855:B - extra brackets around the wikilink for 3714:Worth adding the renovation took five years 1766:Perhaps we can do a DYK together some day. 5429:On January 12 you listed your concerns as 4463:only to the extent they relate to the GACR 3787:The following discussion has been closed. 3778: 3659: 3326: 3184: 2958: 2575: 2506:Is this something not in the lead already? 2168: 1934:The following discussion has been closed. 1925: 1605:The following discussion has been closed. 1596: 1538:is probably the closest guideline to this. 1369:The following discussion has been closed. 1360: 796:, which you're right is more appropriate. 651:The following discussion has been closed. 642: 181:The following discussion has been closed. 172: 30: 4581:Let me turn it around. Just because you 1136:"Much later" - just "later" will do here 4520:that the article meets the GA criteria 3662: 3329: 3187: 2961: 2578: 2171: 1491:and added missing cite for dimensions. 61: 33: 5279: 5275: 4773: 4543:copy something, it doesn't follow you 3804:Footnote lettering as in this version 1116:(since he was writing, not speaking). 253:so let's wait for how that turns out. 5203:reader who appreciates good writing). 4217:"A GA can't have any tags." Which of 3627:I don't think this is a showstopper. 3359:sounds like a great DYK in the making 7: 4699:and I'd like him to come help us. 3982:Footnotes K and R each have a tag 1865:Ritchie, is this still a problem? 209:I usually overstuff the lead then 24: 5366:reviewer -- you. Like it says at 5122:that's exactly the sort of stuff 957:Ritchie -- are you OK with this? 3954: 3915: 3868: 3826: 3725: 3683: 3601: 3530: 3499: 3446:. Can you suggest a substitute? 3270: 3227: 3143: 3102: 3064: 3020: 2982: 2914: 2868: 2823: 2781: 2759: 2707: 2637: 2599: 2450: 2351: 2285: 2230: 2192: 2125: 2086: 2047: 1957: 1895: 1860: 1799: 1713: 1551: 1515: 1482: 1440: 1398: 1149: 1103: 1058: 986: 951: 876: 830: 783: 738: 520: 479: 401: 318: 5467:what the unaddressed problem is 4633:has anything to do with this? 4037:Elevators! Steam heat! Dynamos! 3322:Burglary and theivery incidents 2954:Harry Elkins Widener Collection 2542:So this now seems be resolved? 5010:doesn't seem to have any space 4404:Barry & Stef's Travel Blog 2881:to the slightly less flippant 2434:Yes, distraction sounds okay. 913:is generally not considered a 1: 5249:[The above comments refer to 5066:I don't see the relevance of 4637:like this but never explain. 5479:18:04, 21 January 2015 (UTC) 5413:17:18, 21 January 2015 (UTC) 5394:16:57, 21 January 2015 (UTC) 5357:16:06, 21 January 2015 (UTC) 5310:16:57, 21 January 2015 (UTC) 5293:15:59, 21 January 2015 (UTC) 5276:"pile of stones and rubbish" 5270:03:15, 21 January 2015 (UTC) 5244:20:30, 20 January 2015 (UTC) 5232:seems a little primitive. 5225:02:32, 20 January 2015 (UTC) 5167:17:59, 19 January 2015 (UTC) 5138:02:25, 20 January 2015 (UTC) 5070:to the Gutenberg Bible Theft 4983:22:15, 16 January 2015 (UTC) 4933:14:24, 16 January 2015 (UTC) 4894:13:59, 16 January 2015 (UTC) 4881:standing around beancounting 4865:12:33, 16 January 2015 (UTC) 4849:06:02, 16 January 2015 (UTC) 4823:Picking up where we left off 4813:15:55, 16 January 2015 (UTC) 4798:14:54, 16 January 2015 (UTC) 4763:12:34, 16 January 2015 (UTC) 4740:06:58, 14 January 2015 (UTC) 4709:12:46, 13 January 2015 (UTC) 4680:12:12, 13 January 2015 (UTC) 4647:12:00, 13 January 2015 (UTC) 4574:10:02, 13 January 2015 (UTC) 4507:17:48, 12 January 2015 (UTC) 4441:17:06, 12 January 2015 (UTC) 4383:19:58, 11 January 2015 (UTC) 4369:19:40, 11 January 2015 (UTC) 4353:09:58, 11 January 2015 (UTC) 4336:09:42, 11 January 2015 (UTC) 4312:08:37, 11 January 2015 (UTC) 4294:23:08, 10 January 2015 (UTC) 4049:18:44, 12 January 2015 (UTC) 3053:should be wikilinked in full 2800:05:46, 13 January 2015 (UTC) 2552:19:48, 27 January 2015 (UTC) 2403:Euphemism is something like 2275:. Let's try that, actually. 2024:18:29, 12 January 2015 (UTC) 1750:Good call on the redlink to 1728:believed (at the time) to be 1680:04:56, 13 January 2015 (UTC) 1242:07:23, 16 January 2015 (UTC) 1232:I finally just took it out. 1203:07:23, 16 January 2015 (UTC) 1076:18:32, 12 January 2015 (UTC) 849:18:32, 12 January 2015 (UTC) 756:18:32, 12 January 2015 (UTC) 583:Comments on the body later. 452:11:50, 13 January 2015 (UTC) 349:Faculty of Arts and Sciences 292:11:50, 13 January 2015 (UTC) 5434:There is still one left... 5251:this version of the article 4908:Okay, regarding images ... 4266:09:38, 9 January 2015 (UTC) 4250:05:53, 9 January 2015 (UTC) 4235:05:16, 9 January 2015 (UTC) 4209:03:28, 9 January 2015 (UTC) 4187:21:43, 8 January 2015 (UTC) 4133:10:57, 8 January 2015 (UTC) 4104:19:40, 4 January 2015 (UTC) 4082:15:30, 4 January 2015 (UTC) 4030:17:30, 7 January 2015 (UTC) 4001:17:30, 7 January 2015 (UTC) 3972:17:30, 7 January 2015 (UTC) 3934:17:30, 7 January 2015 (UTC) 3891:17:30, 7 January 2015 (UTC) 3845:23:49, 8 January 2015 (UTC) 3770:13:03, 4 January 2015 (UTC) 3743:10:36, 5 January 2015 (UTC) 3692:Here on earth we call them 3638:10:51, 8 January 2015 (UTC) 3616:17:54, 7 January 2015 (UTC) 3606:Ritchie, you OK with this? 3591:10:27, 5 January 2015 (UTC) 3549:10:27, 5 January 2015 (UTC) 3514:17:54, 7 January 2015 (UTC) 3504:Ritchie, you OK with this? 3485:12:04, 5 January 2015 (UTC) 3469:10:42, 5 January 2015 (UTC) 3312:12:18, 4 January 2015 (UTC) 3288:23:55, 8 January 2015 (UTC) 3265:10:53, 8 January 2015 (UTC) 3242:17:54, 7 January 2015 (UTC) 3217:09:29, 5 January 2015 (UTC) 2938:08:57, 5 January 2015 (UTC) 2775:17:54, 7 January 2015 (UTC) 2726:08:57, 5 January 2015 (UTC) 2538:10:40, 5 January 2015 (UTC) 2522:08:05, 5 January 2015 (UTC) 2496:11:06, 4 January 2015 (UTC) 2468:17:33, 7 January 2015 (UTC) 2445:17:04, 5 January 2015 (UTC) 2429:12:04, 5 January 2015 (UTC) 2398:10:36, 5 January 2015 (UTC) 2308:17:05, 5 January 2015 (UTC) 2149:07:09, 5 January 2015 (UTC) 1890:10:47, 8 January 2015 (UTC) 1875:17:54, 7 January 2015 (UTC) 1855:05:54, 5 January 2015 (UTC) 1700:would simply say "believed" 1576:23:57, 4 January 2015 (UTC) 1385:doesn't have that quotation 1345:23:33, 3 January 2015 (UTC) 1330:23:04, 3 January 2015 (UTC) 1315:22:14, 3 January 2015 (UTC) 1292:08:46, 4 January 2015 (UTC) 1021:10:33, 4 January 2015 (UTC) 967:17:54, 7 January 2015 (UTC) 792:Added cite, and changed to 622:05:38, 4 January 2015 (UTC) 594:21:00, 3 January 2015 (UTC) 374:10:31, 4 January 2015 (UTC) 161:21:00, 3 January 2015 (UTC) 5494: 5368:WP:Reviewing good articles 4664:. Or you could start up a 4147:See the documentation for 2164:Amenities and deficiencies 1407:Link was dead, now fixed. 363:Ah, good point well made. 341:Harvard University Library 333:Harvard University Library 4662:Good article reassessment 2716:The link has been fixed. 5126:says should be that way. 4461:that tags are forbidden 3790:Please do not modify it. 3342:Björk, clearly covering 3180:In literature and legend 1937:Please do not modify it. 1608:Please do not modify it. 1372:Please do not modify it. 654:Please do not modify it. 251:Widener Memorial Library 184:Please do not modify it. 5124:WP:EMBED#Long_sequences 4410:, so that can't be used 2879:to guide the bewildered 345:Harvard College Library 304:Harvard College Library 4784: 4654:Elizabeth I of England 3351: 2571:Collections and stacks 1922:Widener Memorial Rooms 1162:William Bentinck-Smith 839:Completely rewritten. 692:Eleanor Elkins Widener 3357:Gutenberg Bible theft 3341: 1752:The Christian Warfare 561:story, anyway -- see 4553:Noel Lee (executive) 1724:believed at the time 18:Talk:Widener Library 5439:A tag has appeared 4413:A tag has appeared 4279:EEng, consensus on 4145:Go find the source. 2991:Added url to cite. 1164:has written that... 337:The Harvard Library 4666:formal peer review 3352: 2790:Sourced, at last. 1160:Harvard historian 4969:Preferences : --> 4406:but that's not a 4062: 4061: 3881:is interpolated. 3755: 3754: 3745: 3705: 3651: 3650: 3593: 3579: 3576: 3551: 3487: 3455: 3414: 3382: 3318: 3317: 3219: 3176: 3175: 3166: 3155: 3152: 3119: 3082: 3051:Robert Cruikshank 3037: 3000: 2950: 2949: 2940: 2926: 2923: 2894: 2848: 2777: 2756: 2728: 2687: 2659: 2617: 2567: 2566: 2524: 2510: 2507: 2431: 2376: 2331: 2294: 2247: 2210: 2161: 2160: 2151: 2137: 2134: 2105: 2066: 2011: 1979: 1966:Added source for 1919: 1918: 1857: 1843: 1840: 1816: 1775: 1739: 1590: 1589: 1578: 1564: 1561: 1530: 1500: 1458: 1416: 1354: 1353: 1294: 1280: 1277: 1166: 1125: 1004: 969: 941: 898: 805: 703: 687: 684: 636: 635: 624: 610: 607: 573: 533: 496: 418: 360: 262: 222: 89: 88: 5485: 4970:Appearance : --> 4837: 4751: 4658:featured article 4424:Charles R. Apted 4323: 4166: 4160: 4156: 4150: 3962: 3958: 3957: 3923: 3919: 3918: 3876: 3872: 3871: 3834: 3830: 3829: 3792: 3782:Addressed below 3779: 3733: 3729: 3728: 3723: 3691: 3687: 3686: 3681: 3664:Extended content 3660: 3605: 3581: 3578: 3573: 3538: 3534: 3533: 3528: 3503: 3473: 3440: 3404: 3371:Baby Jesus theft 3368: 3355:Off-topic - the 3331:Extended content 3327: 3278: 3274: 3273: 3231: 3206: 3189:Extended content 3185: 3157: 3154: 3151: 3147: 3146: 3141: 3110: 3106: 3105: 3100: 3072: 3068: 3067: 3062: 3028: 3024: 3023: 3018: 2990: 2986: 2985: 2980: 2963:Extended content 2959: 2928: 2925: 2922: 2918: 2917: 2912: 2876: 2872: 2871: 2866: 2831: 2827: 2826: 2821: 2789: 2785: 2784: 2764: 2763: 2746: 2715: 2711: 2710: 2705: 2677: 2645: 2641: 2640: 2635: 2607: 2603: 2602: 2597: 2580:Extended content 2576: 2512: 2509: 2505: 2458: 2454: 2453: 2402: 2359: 2355: 2354: 2349: 2329: 2293: 2289: 2288: 2265: 2238: 2234: 2233: 2228: 2200: 2196: 2195: 2190: 2173:Extended content 2169: 2139: 2136: 2133: 2129: 2128: 2123: 2094: 2090: 2089: 2084: 2055: 2051: 2050: 2045: 1997: 1965: 1961: 1960: 1955: 1939: 1926: 1903: 1899: 1898: 1864: 1845: 1842: 1838: 1807: 1803: 1802: 1797: 1765: 1721: 1717: 1716: 1711: 1636:See next bullet. 1610: 1597: 1566: 1563: 1559: 1555: 1554: 1549: 1520: 1519: 1490: 1486: 1485: 1480: 1448: 1444: 1443: 1438: 1406: 1402: 1401: 1396: 1383:the source given 1374: 1361: 1282: 1279: 1275: 1157: 1153: 1152: 1147: 1111: 1107: 1106: 1101: 1066: 1062: 1061: 1044: 1038: 994: 990: 989: 984: 956: 955: 928: 884: 880: 879: 874: 838: 834: 833: 791: 787: 786: 781: 746: 742: 741: 723: 717: 689: 686: 674: 656: 643: 612: 609: 605: 555: 528: 524: 523: 518: 487: 483: 482: 477: 409: 405: 404: 399: 326: 322: 321: 316: 248: 208: 186: 173: 139: 130: 111: 43:Copyvio detector 31: 5493: 5492: 5488: 5487: 5486: 5484: 5483: 5482: 5423: 5328: 5174: 4906: 4827: 4825: 4745: 4719: 4695:I see you know 4408:reliable source 4393: 4373:Already fixed. 4317: 4164: 4158: 4154: 4152:citation needed 4148: 4112:The GA criteria 4067: 3955: 3953: 3916: 3914: 3869: 3867: 3827: 3825: 3788: 3777: 3756: 3726: 3724: 3684: 3682: 3665: 3657: 3652: 3531: 3529: 3332: 3324: 3319: 3271: 3269: 3190: 3182: 3177: 3144: 3142: 3130:British Library 3103: 3101: 3065: 3063: 3047:Charles Dickens 3021: 3019: 2983: 2981: 2964: 2956: 2951: 2915: 2913: 2869: 2867: 2824: 2822: 2782: 2780: 2708: 2706: 2638: 2636: 2600: 2598: 2581: 2573: 2568: 2451: 2449: 2352: 2350: 2286: 2284: 2231: 2229: 2193: 2191: 2174: 2166: 2126: 2124: 2087: 2085: 2048: 2046: 1958: 1956: 1935: 1924: 1896: 1894: 1800: 1798: 1714: 1712: 1606: 1595: 1552: 1550: 1483: 1481: 1441: 1439: 1399: 1397: 1370: 1359: 1150: 1148: 1114:wrote privately 1104: 1102: 1059: 1057: 1042: 1036: 987: 985: 915:reliable source 877: 875: 831: 829: 784: 782: 739: 737: 721: 715: 675:I really think 652: 641: 521: 519: 480: 478: 402: 400: 329:Harvard Library 319: 317: 182: 171: 120: 97: 91: 85: 57: 29: 22: 21: 20: 12: 11: 5: 5491: 5489: 5448: 5447: 5441: 5436: 5422: 5419: 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1414: 1410: 1405: 1395: 1394: 1393: 1392: 1391: 1390: 1389: 1388: 1384: 1380: 1379: 1378: 1377: 1373: 1368: 1367: 1363: 1362: 1356: 1346: 1343: 1341: 1339: 1338: 1333: 1332: 1331: 1327: 1323: 1319: 1318: 1317: 1316: 1313: 1311: 1309: 1308: 1293: 1289: 1285: 1281: 1274: 1273: 1272: 1271: 1270: 1269: 1268: 1267: 1263: 1262:WP:PERTINENCE 1260:be used, but 1259: 1255: 1254: 1243: 1239: 1235: 1231: 1230: 1229: 1228: 1227: 1226: 1225: 1224: 1223: 1222: 1218: 1217: 1204: 1200: 1196: 1191: 1190: 1189: 1188: 1187: 1186: 1185: 1184: 1183: 1182: 1181: 1180: 1176: 1175: 1165: 1163: 1156: 1146: 1145: 1144: 1143: 1142: 1141: 1140: 1139: 1135: 1134: 1123: 1119: 1115: 1110: 1100: 1099: 1098: 1097: 1096: 1095: 1094: 1093: 1089: 1088: 1077: 1073: 1069: 1065: 1056: 1055: 1054: 1053: 1052: 1051: 1050: 1049: 1048: 1047: 1041: 1040:better source 1034: 1033: 1022: 1019: 1017: 1015: 1014: 1009: 1006: 1005: 1002: 998: 993: 983: 982: 981: 980: 979: 978: 977: 976: 972: 971: 970: 968: 964: 960: 954: 939: 935: 931: 927: 926: 925: 924: 923: 922: 921: 920: 916: 912: 908: 907: 896: 892: 888: 883: 873: 872: 871: 870: 869: 868: 867: 866: 862: 861: 850: 846: 842: 837: 828: 827: 826: 825: 824: 823: 822: 821: 820: 819: 815: 814: 803: 799: 795: 790: 780: 779: 778: 777: 776: 775: 774: 773: 769: 768: 757: 753: 749: 745: 736: 735: 734: 733: 732: 731: 730: 729: 728: 727: 720: 719:better source 713: 712: 701: 697: 693: 688: 682: 678: 673: 672: 671: 670: 669: 668: 667: 666: 662: 661: 660: 659: 655: 650: 649: 645: 644: 638: 623: 619: 615: 611: 604: 603: 602: 601: 600: 599: 598: 597: 596: 595: 592: 590: 588: 587: 571: 567: 563: 560: 554: 553: 552: 551: 550: 549: 548: 547: 543: 542: 532: 527: 517: 516: 515: 514: 513: 512: 511: 510: 506: 505: 494: 490: 486: 476: 475: 474: 473: 472: 471: 470: 469: 465: 464: 453: 449: 445: 441: 440: 439: 438: 437: 436: 435: 434: 433: 432: 428: 427: 416: 412: 408: 398: 397: 396: 395: 394: 393: 392: 391: 387: 386: 375: 372: 370: 368: 367: 362: 361: 358: 354: 350: 346: 342: 338: 334: 330: 325: 315: 314: 313: 312: 311: 310: 309: 308: 305: 301: 300: 293: 289: 285: 281: 280: 279: 278: 277: 276: 272: 271: 260: 256: 252: 247: 246: 245: 244: 243: 242: 241: 240: 236: 232: 231: 220: 216: 212: 207: 206: 205: 204: 203: 202: 201: 200: 196: 195:WP:LEADLENGTH 192: 191: 190: 189: 185: 180: 179: 176:All resolved 175: 174: 168: 166: 163: 162: 158: 155: 152: 148: 145: 141: 138: 137: 133: 128: 124: 119: 118: 114: 109: 105: 101: 96: 95: 82: 79: 77: 74: 72: 69: 68: 66: 65: 60: 54: 51: 49: 46: 44: 41: 40: 38: 37: 32: 26: 19: 5466: 5464: 5458: 5454: 5453: 5449: 5443: 5438: 5433: 5428: 5424: 5404: 5372: 5363: 5348: 5339: 5332:no consensus 5331: 5329: 5248: 5233: 5200:Boston Globe 5199: 5194: 5185: 5179: 5158: 5152: 5150: 5102: 5086:card catalog 4998: 4968: 4960: 4955: 4951: 4943: 4924: 4907: 4856: 4826: 4804: 4780: 4754: 4720: 4671: 4635: 4628: 4622: 4616: 4611: 4606: 4601: 4586: 4582: 4580: 4565: 4544: 4540: 4522:at this time 4521: 4518:no consensus 4517: 4483: 4462: 4458: 4432: 4427: 4420: 4394: 4360: 4342: 4327: 4285: 4278: 4257: 4222: 4195: 4177: 4171: 4144: 4140: 4124: 4119: 4115: 4095: 4090: 4073: 4036: 3959: 3920: 3878: 3873: 3857:bibliophiles 3831: 3803: 3789: 3761: 3757: 3730: 3693: 3688: 3629: 3600: 3535: 3498: 3460: 3443: 3424: 3303: 3300: 3275: 3256: 3226: 3148: 3107: 3069: 3025: 2987: 2919: 2882: 2878: 2873: 2836: 2832: 2828: 2786: 2712: 2647: 2642: 2604: 2529: 2487: 2484: 2455: 2436: 2416: 2412: 2408: 2404: 2389: 2385:WP:EUPHEMISM 2380: 2360: 2356: 2299: 2290: 2272: 2268: 2235: 2197: 2130: 2091: 2052: 1999: 1967: 1962: 1936: 1900: 1881: 1804: 1751: 1727: 1723: 1718: 1697: 1607: 1556: 1514: 1487: 1445: 1403: 1371: 1336: 1306: 1304:More later. 1303: 1257: 1159: 1154: 1113: 1108: 1063: 1012: 991: 950: 886: 881: 835: 793: 788: 743: 680: 676: 653: 585: 582: 558: 530: 525: 484: 406: 365: 348: 344: 340: 336: 332: 323: 250: 210: 183: 164: 153: 143: 142: 135: 131: 117:Article talk 116: 112: 93: 90: 81:Instructions 5336:peer review 5281:foundation. 5006:through to 4727:WP:COATRACK 4656:, that's a 4223:potentially 4091:interesting 3879:bibliophile 3694:parentheses 3562:WP:BLPCRIME 3392:This source 3301:More later 2648:megalibrary 2417:distraction 529:Changed to 235:common name 211:squeeeeeeze 104:visual edit 5405:Ritchie333 5349:Ritchie333 5180:Dedication 5172:Quotations 5159:Ritchie333 4992:Ritchie333 4925:Ritchie333 4857:Ritchie333 4830:Ritchie333 4805:Ritchie333 4755:Ritchie333 4686:MOS:LAYOUT 4672:Ritchie333 4566:Ritchie333 4459:explicitly 4433:Ritchie333 4361:Ritchie333 4328:Ritchie333 4286:Ritchie333 4258:Ritchie333 4141:Challenged 4125:Ritchie333 4096:Ritchie333 4074:Ritchie333 3762:Ritchie333 3655:Renovation 3630:Ritchie333 3461:Ritchie333 3304:Ritchie333 3257:Ritchie333 2530:Ritchie333 2488:Ritchie333 2437:Ritchie333 2390:Ritchie333 2365:Clark Kerr 2300:Ritchie333 1882:Ritchie333 1593:Dedication 1337:Ritchie333 1307:Ritchie333 1013:Ritchie333 681:Descendent 639:Background 586:Ritchie333 366:Ritchie333 147:Ritchie333 48:Authorship 34:GA toolbox 5182:section: 4624:"United". 4557:Wizardman 4446:Hold it. 4242:Viriditas 4201:Viriditas 4172:certainly 3903:Gore Hall 3775:Footnotes 2405:passed on 2269:ominously 1536:WP:EASTER 1364:All done 646:All done 144:Reviewer: 71:Templates 62:Reviewing 27:GA Review 5374:required 4944:Building 4879:is just 4723:WP:QUOTE 4618:centre." 4454:images). 3924:Removed 3874:Not done 3564:to do so 2643:Not done 2413:headache 2361:Headache 2357:Not done 2273:opaquely 2000:brackets 1357:Building 1158:Made it 1112:Made it 1008:So it is 992:Not done 794:perished 324:Not done 157:contribs 76:Criteria 5459:finally 5195:exhibit 5151:What I 4967:is the 4961:upright 4956:caption 4952:image's 4631:WP:GACR 4484:discuss 4219:WP:GACR 4162:Dubious 4065:Summary 3905:article 3444:unusual 3344:Genesis 2650:means. 1968:rotunda 1619:WP:NPOV 127:history 108:history 94:Article 5344:WP:IAR 5326:Act IV 5153:really 4940:WP:CAP 4904:Images 4587:should 4545:should 4391:Update 4345:Taketa 4281:WT:GAN 3575:think? 2833:Though 2381:actual 1652:claims 911:tumblr 5240:talk 5053:used! 3442:with 3429:Björk 1929:Done 1600:Done 1258:could 677:scion 559:false 339:(aka 136:Watch 16:< 5475:talk 5471:EEng 5455:Then 5445:POV. 5390:talk 5386:EEng 5340:then 5306:talk 5302:EEng 5289:talk 5266:talk 5262:EEng 5221:talk 5217:EEng 5134:talk 5130:EEng 5103:were 4979:talk 4975:EEng 4890:talk 4886:EEng 4845:talk 4841:EEng 4832:and 4794:talk 4736:talk 4705:talk 4701:EEng 4643:talk 4639:EEng 4593:and 4531:and 4503:talk 4499:EEng 4417:POV. 4379:talk 4375:EEng 4349:talk 4308:talk 4304:EEng 4246:talk 4231:talk 4227:EEng 4205:talk 4196:ever 4183:talk 4179:EEng 4045:talk 4041:EEng 4026:talk 4022:EEng 3997:talk 3993:EEng 3968:talk 3964:EEng 3960:Done 3930:talk 3926:EEng 3921:Done 3887:talk 3883:EEng 3841:talk 3837:EEng 3832:Done 3739:talk 3735:EEng 3731:Done 3702:talk 3698:EEng 3696::P. 3689:Done 3612:talk 3608:EEng 3587:talk 3583:EEng 3545:talk 3541:EEng 3536:Done 3510:talk 3506:EEng 3481:talk 3477:EEng 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