861:. Why send 100% to a page they are not seeking (the dab page) when we can send them to the page 60% are seeking and where the 40% minority remains just one click from the page they seeking, same as they would had they been sent to the dab page? And this does not affect every show from Quebec, just those that must be disambiguated from shows with the same name that are from France. If "(U.S. TV show)" is an acceptable disambiguator (rather than "(American TV show)"), why not "(France TV show)"? Or, again, just "(France)" seems enough to me. --
835:
accepted disambiguation and there is no need for exceptions here. Will a reader be confused? Maybe, but if they are writing in the search box the name and one comes out as "Tout le monde en parle (French talk show)" and the other "Tout le monde en parle (Canadian talk show)", they wont be. Also, what you are asking for is not an exception to a rare case, but to every show from Quebec. That is an open-ended exception, which should not be legitimized in a discussion over an obscure article. --
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issues in disambiguation, recommending an ambiguous title. Rather, the "special exception" would be to make an ambiguous title following NCTV, where the global policy does not recommend making ambiguous names as exceptions to PRECISE unambigous naming. "French" is ambiguous in this case, so the special exception NCTV recommends to contravene PRECISE should not be followed. --
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I'd like to comment and make it clear that I oppose this whole train of thought. First of all, the page views show that there is clearly no primary topic. Continuing on from that, I find it ridiculous that an adaptation would get primary over the original source. And lastly, "(France)" is just not an
318:
as proposed. There's a clear consensus that the French show isn't the primary topic and should be moved. There's a rough consensus for the proposed title vs the (France) option. There's no consensus that the
Canadian show is the primary topic in this discussion; if desired, another RM can be started
856:
how do "the page views show that there is clearly no primary topic"? I showed we're getting a 60/40 distribution favoring the Canada one over the France one, not surprisingly, in an
English encyclopedia. I mean, English speakers are generally more likely to look for a show from Canada than one from
807:
You can’t expect the guidelines to account for every case. ‘’French talk show’’ would be a reasonable disambiguator if, you know, the other use wasn’t arguably a ‘’French talk show’’ as well. You shouldn’t have to be an NCTV wonk to understand our titles, which understanding that “French talk show”
595:
indicates that policies such as WP:AT override guidelines like NCTV in cases of conflict. Knowledge (XXG)-wide global standards are more central than local standards of one particular topic area, since global standards apply to all topic areas. The NCTV guideline fails to take into account language
974:
closers to properly weigh the strength of arguments made in these discussions, and "collapsing" this off-shot discussion would be inappropriate in this case because, while several of us don't agree with the proposal being made, it's not "off-topic". Perhaps this RM gets relisted as a result. But I
558:
Both articles already have hatnotes: with that, there is no reason not to follow NCTV and use "French game show" – the very few people that somehow are looking for the French-language
Canadian version will quickly get there with the hatnote, so there's no reason to invoke a "special exception" the
486:, because both talk shows are French-language talk shows. The Quebec title can use either disambiguator, but the show from France is inherently confused when using the "French" disambiguator. Yes, clearly the show from France needs to be renamed. --
948:
can we reformat or box this new "alternative" to get the RM back on WP:NCTV track? It's clear that the guideline covers this case and the suggestion to depart from the guideline doesn't need a separate alternative RM set up inside it.
910:
446:
In regard to below comment by 65.94, do not see that (French ) could be misunderstood given that the title itself is clearly in French and the other option would not be a language. As per
642:
Yes, if it isn't moved there, a redirect should be created from this and "(France)" as well. (and for the other, "(Canada)" and "(Quebec talk show)" redirects should also be created) --
787:
all you like on these RM's, but it's still the controlling naming convention guideline, and should be followed. You have offered no subtantive policy-based reason why it should not. --
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739:, the threshold should be low for deciding primary topic here, and the page view counts indicate the Quebec one is the primary topic by a significant margin (based on
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France, and that won't be affected by which one was created/produced first. 60/40 is enough to establish a primary topic, especially in a two dabs situations per
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title for non-PRIMARY articles regardless what the NCTV mere ‘’guideline’’ says. Disambiguating with “French talk show” doesn’t meet the policy requirement. —
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contravenes the most basic naming policy, so cannot be applied in this case "(French talk show)" since both talk shows are in French (not
Swahili, or Hindi).
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to this article, so what's the point? I don't see the creation of a two entry dab page in the proposal (not that I would support that). However, per
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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a
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on
Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
508:, the above proposal is correct, and yours is incorrect: we don't disambiguate by country alone under
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755:) disambiguator here. Then the primary topic Quebec article can be moved to the basename. --
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would be fine though. "(French talk show)" would need to point to the disambiguation page --
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articles need to be disambiguated from each other (along with the use of hatnotes). Second,
885:. It probably needs to be more like 90/10, and 95/5 or 98/2 is a much better/safer bet. --
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As I've said elsewhere, a 60/40 split is nowhere near enough to be considered a
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Okay, then anyway, back to the original proposal, continue to
Support.
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The IP has a point, both the
Canadian and French talk shows can be
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List of adjectival and demonymic forms for countries and nations
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believe the ultimate "move" outcome will be the correct one. --
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15:
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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this
384:, and needs to be moved to correct disambiguation, which is
620:– that is an entirely reasonable suggestion/request. --
1017:
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a
101:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
616:FTR, I have no objection to creating a redirect at
309:. No further edits should be made to this section.
1033:. No further edits should be made to this section.
241:This article has not yet received a rating on the
913:under "Adjectivals", while "France" does not. --
454:and GBooks show the two shows at 50/50, so move
211:. To improve this article, please refer to the
532:In this particular case, NCTV guideline fails
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8:
1079:Pages translated from French Knowledge (XXG)
775:Your proposal is still wrong: it should be
386:Tout le monde en parle (Canadian talk show)
359:Tout le monde en parle (Canadian talk show)
319:at a later date making that case. For now,
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618:Tout le monde en parle (France talk show)
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380:is just incorrectly disambiguated as per
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456:Tout le monde en parle (disambiguation)
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224:Template:WikiProject Television
135:This article has been rated as
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1:
109:and see a list of open tasks.
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458:into baseline, as on fr.wp.
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368:, this is basically a
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32:on Knowledge (XXG)'s
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