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by movie studios (Universal, Warner Bros, Disney, Dreamworks). This is where much of old
Hollywood and famous people like Bob Hope landed, stayed and developed this unique area and where new Hollywood's A-list actors, directors, composers and producers fight to get into. References for many of these celebs so long ago are difficult, but everyone who has a reference and is a Wiki notable should be included. Those without would need to earn a spot. But almost every name there is a true Hollywood veteran with tremendous notability. This article has included the names for a very long time. I'm going to post this on the discussion page so hopefully you'll allow me to put back a portion of the article that is so tied to the reason for the notability of the town it seems odd to remove it.
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1340:, as appropriate. The current info listing a handful more recent residents like Melissa McCarthy and Viola Davis should probably be removed as trivial, but I've kept it in a less conspicuous single sentence more in keeping with the prose about early residents. In general, keeping information like this in the article should be predicated on the cited sources actually establishing the person's residence in the town as notable by discussing it in some way, not just noting where they live arbitrarily.—
1024:(actually a neighborhood, not a city) is one exception, since it is notable for its African American population. Unless Toluca Lake is notable (which is not the same as statistically unusual) for a particular demographic, I'd say leave demographics other than population out. (Rob3gd is new to Knowledge (XXG), and I hope s/he will learn to discuss issues, even controversial ones, with minimum drama and without resorting to personal attacks.)--
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chose to revert it back, citing a non- explanation which isn't true because I put in my explanation last night. That is a violation of
Knowledge (XXG)'s civility policy. You are also in violation of the Indecent suggestions clause of the Civility policy by constructing a paragraph that suggest white superiority results in "desirable" conditions.
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relationship to TL is that they live there, it's a blip. Add it to that person's article, and readers interested in that trivia can look at "What Links Here." There are many, many neighborhoods in LA and New York and other cities where notable people are clustered, this does not necessarily make TL unique.—
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A great deal of copyrighted stuff was recently inserted, and I simply removed it instead of challenging it. I hope the editor can rework it in his or her own words, in a more neutral, encyclopedic style, and restore it. The actual words can be used, briefly, if they are surrounded by quotation marks
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George, you know what you are doing is wrong and divisive. Its not the standard in any neighbor article and shouldn't be in the introduction. Yes, affluent should be permitted but not the fact that its 7!% white. Population statistics should never be included in the introduction. You are setting up a
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I'm using a smart phone. I also took still images of both Toluca lake and
Tarzana intros. I will be taking this to the local media for discussion. This divisiveness in not acceptable and isn't fair to non whites who reside in the neighborhoods. This will be brought up in the local community meetings.
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Noq,Perhaps you don't know who the people are in the Toluca Lake article. Toluca Lake is known primarily because of the famous people who have lived there since its beginning and who live there now. It's a very unique area of celebrity homes in the middle of an otherwise fairly banal area surrounded
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It should be noted that the Toluca Lake boundaries were never extended. West Toluca Lake, Toluca
Terrence, and Toluca woods are neighborhoods that changed their names to disassociate with North Hollywood back in the 90's. They are part of the greater Toluca Lake council, but they don't live in Toluca
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I would say "affluent" and "low-density" are essential descriptive characteristics of the neighborhood and therefore acceptable for the introduction, but that data about particulars of residents' race, age, and domestic stability are either incidental or transient and therefore should occur later in
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I know this article is still basically a stub, but if you are going to add "Famous residents," I think it is essential that you add some descriptive information for at least the people who have no articles themselves. Who are Evelyn
Matchel and Mary Jane Reck-Khoshnegah? They do not come up on the
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I am a resident of Toluca Lake and a longtime contributor to this article, and I have to admit that a long list of people who live in TL or have in the past is indeed a bit trivial. The text of the article mentions some notables with a little more detail, but if all there is to say about a person's
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The statistics are in no way the problem, inserting the statistics in the introductory portion of the article isn't standard and also sets a negative tone. The statistics should be kept only in the population portion of the article. Stating that The neighborhood is affluent is not a problem in the
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OK, after further thought (and checking out some random town articles), trotting out all the demographics in the first sentence is a little clunky and doesn't appear to be the standard. Generally lead sections/paragraphs touch on every section of an article but all this does is put undue weight on
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George, I explained clearly the reason for my revision just as the previous user did. Our explanations are quite clear, yet, you continue to revert the edits without good cause. I edited out the section and you reverted it back without good cause because I clearly gave you an explanation, but you
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says at the staart, you need to assume good faith. Calling editors ignorant and racist is hardly going to make them want to agree with what you say, even if it is right. Would there be any problem with moving the 71% white population to under the header 'Population'? Or, if it is still an issue,
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Even after being provided with the guidelines for cities on Wiki, George still ignores the rules and decides to put the demographics in the lead section of the article to set a tone for the reader before he/she even reads it. This is unethical as an editor and should be disciplined some how. Its
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I don't see it being a huge deal to lead with a community's demographics, my issue is that the statement is unsourced. If the community is really 71% white then there is no racism, but if we're pointing this out I would expect some breakdown of other ethnicities because the reader will naturally
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There is a definite lack of advance 'discussion width', which left me unaware of changes (considered or already done such as here) even though very active with L.A. Districts' articles. Personally I do not find using the word 'notorious' and L.A. used together by some 'change advocates' in other
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is 84% white and has a median income of $ 180K, but neither fact is noted in the lead. If
Scarsdale doesn't comment on it, then I'm not quite sure why this article does. At the same time, I really don't care enough to actually vote to remove it. This is a really stupid debate.
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stated, the list is trivial and seems to be filler material. If it is full of famous people how do you choose which to include? Let the chamber of commerce decide? The more famous people live there the less notable it is that a particular famous person lives or lived there.
875:: I was referred here by RFC bot. Can someone clarify what, specifically, we are asking to comment on? If the answer to that question is: "should the demographics section include a description of the US Census data on race and ethnicity" then my answer would be 'yes'.
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On behalf of all others who come here re: RfC, GeorgeLouis is talking out-of date capitalist claptrap. If partnership is to mean anything at all it must mean an equal partnership of unions, government and industry. In that order. Signing post by
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One of the things Toluca Lake is known for is its enclave of famous residents since its beginning. I suggest that rather than delete the entire section, that it include only those who have merited their own links as being notable.
504:" Toluca Lake is an affluent, heavily white, domestically stable, o-aged, low-density community." I can't believe that someone would put this as a discription of the neighborhood. Please keep your ignorance and racism to yourself.
962:: Not quite sure what you mean. I didn't see any description of the neighborhood by WikiBob, and the information is already in the Demographics section. The discussion is about having it also in the Lead section, per
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first page of a Google search, so it's hard to know if someone just added themselves (it was an IP address contribution), or perhaps they are former movie stars and I am too young and stupid to have heard of them?
651:. There is a lot to learn about Knowledge (XXG), but I am always glad to hear from newcomers. Rest assured that the paragraph as it was rewritten after your complaint fulfills Knowledge (XXG)'s policies: It has a
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It might have been faster just to have gone ahead and pasted the list into the new category, although a portion of Toluca Lake falls in Los
Angeles and a portion falls in Burbank. <sigh: -->
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More transparency before further changes, with notification and 'auto-forwarding' of 'old 3 names' titles (in both article links and new searches) could avoid difficult startles. The
350:(CDP). If the change is inevitable perhaps doing so in district name alphabetical order would take out random 'crap shoot' searching now (or explaining another system being used).
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Anyone have some inside information of the lake itself? What it original and later expanded, is it open to the public at all and any kind of fishing and boating permitted?
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Such a list is not appropriate for an article of this type. If these people are indeed from this district, then the proper way to record this info is via the new category
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It seems like the biggest objection is to putting the racial composition into the lede. What if we just took it out? I will do so and see if this is achieves consensus.
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Lists of notable residents are a bad practice as they are not only trivial, but potentially huge and neverending. In particular, this article once had
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have a brief, neutral statement. It seems vaguely like we're supposed to comment on demographics information in the lead; if so, I remain
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that bit. The info is already in the appropriate section so I don't think changing/removing from the lead is a big deal.—
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1100:. This RfC is formatted and constructed very poorly. Please fix this. In your "brief, neutral statement", it should
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discussions positive or a npov backup. I'm neutral on the decision itself, but not on the process to date though.
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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
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intro, stating that its "white, older-aged, low density, well education, domestically stabled" in the intro is.
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Please stop further districts' changes until this is resolved so we all know how to find an article. Thank you-
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Please explain to me how this content is encyclopedic and why its inclusion is merited in the article?
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I am not sure why being white and well educated, etc., "sets a negative tone." They are simply facts.
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A precedet setting decision for one of the world's largest city's deserves wider discussion and input.
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imho. WikiBob's description of the nieghborhood (above us in the talk page) is pretty good as well.
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before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template
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against the guidelines set up and against the virtual consensus of other editors who weighed in.
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of people who have lived in TL, which would be even longer now. Knowledge (XXG) is
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I agree with GeorgeLouis but it's difficult to be sure when an RfC is so unclear.
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465:. You can find numerous examples of how this has been properly accomplished at
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Is there some connection between the ranch and the city of Toluca in Mexico?
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Sorry, I don't know what you are talking about. No sense in getting personal.
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https://web.archive.org/20070419113812/http://laokay.com:80/BobsBigBoy.htm
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certain articles concerning neighborhoods in the south San
Fernando Valley
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The discussion to drop "California" from this article's title is found at
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after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add
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I believe you are new to Knowledge (XXG) and have made changes only to
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Ann Blyth can be entered at well to residents of Lake Toluca 03/15/10
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perhaps, as GeorgeLewis suggested, simply removing it may be better.
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move this information to the demographics section of the article per
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Category:People by Los Angeles, California district or neighborhood
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to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
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Talk:Los_Angeles#Various_move_requests_involving_LA_Neighborhoods
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When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the
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I'm still thinking about it, but I do suggest people read
788:• The percentage of white people is high for the county.
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I have just added archive links to one external link on
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According to an analysis of the 2000 census data by the
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1130:: Could somebody clarify what's needed here? I
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655:and it has a
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1304:— Preceding
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1298:Toluca Ranch
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1233:source check
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671:rather than
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298:70.71.230.45
289:
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237:— Preceding
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40:WikiProjects
1068:GeorgeLouis
1047:GeorgeLouis
1003:GeorgeLouis
968:GeorgeLouis
922:GeorgeLouis
833:GeorgeLouis
802:GeorgeLouis
681:GeorgeLouis
600:GeorgeLouis
559:GeorgeLouis
518:GeorgeLouis
318:Los Angeles
292:—Preceding
64:Los Angeles
1353:Categories
737:Dougweller
473:Satori Son
128:California
118:California
113:U.S. state
59:California
1324:Residents
1259:Cheers. —
1253:this tool
1246:this tool
1136:bobrayner
1026:Wikimedes
960:Question:
484:WikiBob47
419:WikiBob47
404:WikiBob47
363:t a l k →
358:Look2See1
235:Lake.
1342:TAnthony
1306:unsigned
1169:cbignore
1102:actually
890:Response
718:• 5:17pm
708:Comment:
546:TAnthony
536:TAnthony
444:TAnthony
435:TAnthony
294:unsigned
264:TAnthony
239:unsigned
1269::Online
1198:checked
1163:my edit
1128:Comment
1106:neutral
1098:Comment
1064:Comment
1018:Comment
964:WP:Lede
873:Comment
858:EllenCT
729:WP:LEAD
381:Zzyzx11
155:on the
30:C-class
1177:nobots
1022:Harlem
988:Rob3gd
635:Rob3gd
586:Rob3gd
36:scale.
1132:think
715:James
1314:talk
1289:talk
1202:true
1140:talk
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914:here
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731:and
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555:here
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488:talk
453:talk
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408:talk
385:talk
342:(OR
302:talk
282:talk
272:Lake
247:talk
1227:RfC
1189:to
1087:007
1074:Mat
1066:As
947:Rex
916:by
877:Rex
449:noq
442:As
147:Low
115:of
1355::
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42::
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