1210:, I went ahead and removed a great deal of information that was either unsourced or cited with unreliable sources or dead links. I also reworded or removed content that came off as promotional. Whether Tao has been personally involved with editing this page or not, I suspect a great deal of the quotations used for the reception portions have been altered to reflect more positively on Tao's work (though I only checked one, which did prove this suspension to be true in relation to that particular bit). Perhaps it would be beneficial to check the sources to assure this is not the case.
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philosophical speculation to first-person accounts of the effects of DMT and Salvia" I believe salvia is only briefly mentioned in the book, and there's certainly no extensive "first-person account". It feels a little strange to have a possibly inaccurate quote in a biographical article of a living person. Can someone fact-check this? Are there indeed more about salvia than I remember in the book? If there's not, should the quote be taken down? or maybe edited?
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here, to see what has come of him). Prior to that, a while back, I remember reading an interview with him in ANP Quarterly, that was the first time I heard of him. I find him terribly uninteresting in all, just a cheap gimmick that has a longevity and impact in line with a piece of chewing gum, but I think he's received enough notable coverage to make this article's existence acceptable. As to the quality of the article, I don't know... --
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readings nationwide. This is quite clear from the external links available at the article. The article, as it stands now, understates his notability if anything. He also has been at the center of various controversies in the last year or two, that have apparently attracted pranksters to this page. If you want to lock the editing, that is one thing. But to delete an obviously notable fiction writer and poet because of the lack of NPOV
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1163:, I think most of the issues are fixed. While Lin has enough coverage to probably survive and AFD, I've had to block members of Lin's fan team (and probably Lin himself) in the past for spamming stuff about him all over the place. As such, this page is frequently a target of over-promotional material. Just stick with material taken from reliable sources, notable awards, etc. and there won't be an issue.
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some reason, today many are unable to cope with the fact that both horrible things may be true. In fact its worrisome enough that I'm not going to sign this with my name, either. I'm just trying to answer the original question- consider Ellen
Kennedy, and her supporters, might also have reason to erase mention of this. Ellen surely does not want to become infamous for false allegations.
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sufficient (in terms of relevance and citations) by itself to represent Tao's presence on the internet and the way it influenced his main communication medium. I suggest we leave it alone and see whether it can be improved and added to since imageboards are certainly not the sole social medium on which Tao Lin has made himself notorious.
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The definition of "buzzworthy" doesn't apply here at WP. The issue of notablity does, however, and the bulk of the references here constitute brief mentions by sources. E-books don't typically make the mark. I think there's an issue of lack of notability for this whole subject too, but if the article
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Whether or not this author has enough notability to merit inclusion, this article is a blatant case of self-aggrandizement and advertising, exhibiting nothing of the style or neutrality appropriate to an encyclopedia article. See, for example, the comments (esp "this is Tao Lin's secretary . . .") at
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and
Kennedy is a third party here. Second, The Bridddge seems to be a poor source, as I cannot find information on its editorial policies or staff, and it also attributes the information about Kennedy to Lin, i.e. it does not claim in its own voice that "his ex-partner did not want people to discuss
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An anonymous person says without naming the supposed PR firm that is allegedly editing this article! I think the lack of coverage is related to the times, it's a challenge to present culture that: yes, indeed, some females are capable of false accusations, just like some men are capable of rape. For
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Yeah, that's definitely fair and well put with regards to Lin's notability, although the article was definitely neither neutral or appropriate at the time I discovered it, and it seemed at the time like more self-aggrandizement was involved -- That is, I just didn't recognize it as vandalism. Thanks
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Please note that the article as it stands right now is extremely neutral and straightforward. I have not read old versions of the page that may have been vandalized. But again, don't hold the subject responsible for the work of vandals. A great many people have an axe to grind about this subject, as
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under the "blatant advertising" criterion, or at least a deletion proposal for the notability issues. Note also deletion of "dissent" in the histories. I haven't dabbled in this aspect of wikipedia, so i won't be the first to tag the article for deletion, but let me know if you agree. Also note that
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some guy in front of his webcam. One last thanks in advance to the inevitable rush of reverts my edits will provoke, from the usual suspects you mention above. Might be a good idea to protect this, because I may just unwatch this page due to the fact the reverts are getting tiresome and the article
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And I mean, it obviously depends on what 'buzz-worthy' means (a v vague term, I know). But I'd say being talked about by such large publications is more than just a few mentions on blogs that have 5 readers a day. Go ahead and campaign to have the article removed now, but when his new novel starts
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Right I was lying. GOT ME. But seriously, after 5 seconds of actually checking into the issue instead of just deciding whether or not I like the person an article is about, he's published in
Melville House's Novella series (along with such authors), and as the article stated was reviewed in The LA
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This article reads like a press release. Or a long ad. The list of external links is out of proportion, and the whole article reeks of self-promotion, something the author is known to have a proficiency with. Among other things, it violates NPOV. For now, I've added one negative review. Let's get
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I think you're greatly understating the media attention he's received/receiving. It's not just blogs or brief mentions, just today I received the latest issue of BookForum and in there there's a full page article on his latest book and his name is even given on the cover (which is what brought me
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Thanks. For the record, I think a case could be made the whole article doesn't meet notability status. Most of the references seemed to be reactions based on the subjects antics, and his "publishing house" essentially is a form of vanity publisher. I might not have the time to keep an eye on this
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Lin posted a statement on
Facebook addressing Kennedy's accusations. He agreed that he had sex with Kennedy, with whom he was in a long-term relationship, but said that it was "not statutory rape, let alone rape" (as Jezebel had originally reported before correcting the article), and said he had
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Adding a single link as a reply is a rather smug and nonconstructive way of justifying one's positions. On top of that, you're wrong. As far as I know that section dealt with Lin's presence on the internet and imageboards, which is evidenced as the large number of threads on said imageboards who
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page in order to link it to himself. He has named himself as Lish's son (which I removed today). He has written short stories using Gordon Lish's name as teacher and friend. Gordon Lish is neither. He doesn't even like him or his work. This dude must be stopped. Do a google search and see what
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This article sounds like it was written by a friend of the subject. I've deleted irrelevant information--his nickname, "The Asian John Updike," for instance--but I think there remains a notability issue. Almost all the secondary sources noted are blogs: is there enough verifiably independent,
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About this quote: "In
Scientific American, John Horgan wrote, “If an aspirant asks for an example of experimental science writing, I’ll recommend Trip. The book veers from excruciatingly candid autobiography to biography (of McKenna) to investigative journalism…to interview-based journalism to
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I see a lot of debate going on, these two or three small lines dealing with Tao Lin's internet presence being deleted and readded periodically; while the influence of social media (including imageboards) on Lin's literary framework is undeniable, one can indeed wonder whether this paragraph is
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also is a bit misleading. The mentions of by The Daily
Telegraph, The Guardian, New York Magazine, The New Yorker, and New York Times all are about his funding strategy for the book, not the book itself. At best this is pretty irrelevant to a section focused on critical reactions to his work.
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I have no personal or professional affiliation with Tao Lin, but I balk at this reactionary response, particularly labeling him as "fraudulent." I certainly understand and agree with key policies that limit the content of the entry and its associated links, but Tao Lin has garnered much of his
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I am in the publishing industry, and am not affiliated with Tao Lin. The subject of this page has had multiple books published (including on widely-distributed national presses), has had profiles in national and regional magazines; his books are widely distributed and reviewed, and he has done
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I did not re-add the second sentence. It was deleted, as per WP:BLPSPS. But the first sentence seems like it should be in there. The references for it are linked to in the interview here—"While Lin didn’t want to talk about that period, saying that he examined it in
Richard Yates and that his
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No surprise that PR Firm efforts trump any editorial standards
Knowledge claims to have, but this is a particularly egregious example. Lin has made public comments on the allegations himself. There’s been continual news coverage in major publications dealing explicitly with the statutory rape
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I had removed the external links section. It had a number of external links to book reviews about particular books that the author had written. Reviews should not be pushed by external links. They should only be used if they can offer something to the body of the article. See
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His works have been reviewed by numerous widely-read periodicals and his last book was published in a series that includes Joseph Conrad and Marcel Proust. I would expect his next novel (comes out sometime this fall) to be pretty buzz-worthy, and its through the same publishing
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After the allegations were made, Kennedy asked
Jezebel to take down an article about them, saying that only he and Lin had "the expertise to talk about our relationship" and "i shouldn't have started this im trying to recover from a hospitalization". Jezebel ignored the
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Kennedy's permission to use their correspondence. After their relationship ended, Kennedy and Lin remained friends, collaborating on an ebook, hikikomori, in 2007. In 2009 Lin published
Kennedy's poetry collection sometimes my heart pushes my ribs.
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I just put back in the Gawker quote about subject. This is a significant statement by a significant source and no reason given for its removal. Perhaps the individual who did so, under the name K2wiki may be a sockpuppet for the subject.
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stays, then there needs to be no links to the subjects blogs, of which there are many nor to youtube work or obscure awards for students. All of it violates WP:SPAM, and I've reverted enough of that (as have others) for one lifetime.
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policy since this individual seems to be somewhat controversial. Note that I have no connection (or particular interest) in Tao Lin; just bringing this article up to code. Part of that will mean removing a lot of external links. --
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none of the "other projects" have proper references, and all of them fall either into WP:SPAM or WP:SYNTH. I've removed them, but am open to having them in the article if they are sourced, and not included for the sake of
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notoriety due to what you call "ruckus;" his internet presence is largely responsible for his success. Plus, such responses only seem to amuse him and encourage his behavior. I point to the gawker link for evidence.
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I doubt his work was published with a series that included Proust. In terms of what is noteable, if we included everything that is "buzz-worthy" in this article (as it had before it was trimmed) then it'd be a
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The issue isn't the subject matter; the issue is the citations provided. One was a blog and the other a 4chan archive, neither of which are considered reliable as per the link I provided.
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getting reviewed by more major publications and people want to learn about him they're gonna be stuck with his own biography instead of an unbiased one like we can provide here.
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Upon a little further research and a review of the rather shameful edit histories of the article and this talk page, it looks like this article clearly merits a
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is now cited to an interview that does not mention Jezebel, in a website that does not appear reliable to me, quoting a tweet. The second sentence
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is still sourced to a tweet. To my mind, neither of these sentences should be in there if these sources are all there is. Any other opinions? --
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https://web.archive.org/20100726002700/http://newyork.timeout.com:80/articles/books/78017/tao-lin-shoplifting-from-american-apparel-book-review
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Never mind, I made the edits myself. If you’re going to remove them, please cite the specific Knowledge policy that justifies you doing so.
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Thanks. With the help of serialcomma I've been able to get this article back to where it should be. That is, based on reliable sources,
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I added the reference to the tweets sourcing the info on the sentence. As per WP:TWITTER, tweets are acceptable as sources, right?
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Kennedy also wrote in a tweet, "no one but me and tao have the expertise to talk about our relationship do not blog about it".
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i think you've done a great job so far. keep it up. let's get these blog sources and other questionable sources out of here.
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the ongoing discussions.
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it because it was a private matter". So I'm still not convinced that these sources can support this sentence here. --
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Smug? Reliable independent sources are the only way a subject can be objectively covered without it being POV. --
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https://www.dazeddigital.com/artsandculture/article/22051/1/tao-lin-accused-of-statutory-rape-and-emotional-abuse
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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
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I'm working on cleaning up this bio and will delete anything irrelevant or that isn't completely sourced, per
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might as well delete the whole article. this is about as important to the world as another pokemon article.
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If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with
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has referred to him as "maybe perhaps the single most irritating person we've ever had to deal with."
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42:. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to
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witness comments at the top of this page; I request that the editing on this page be restricted. --
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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Kennedy deleted the tweets and asked Jezebel to take down the article, a request Jezebel ignored.
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before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template
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Time Out New York, Time Out Chicago, Publisher's Weekly, Melville House Publishing, etc.
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https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/ryanhatesthis/tao-lin-responds-to-abuse-allegations
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https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/jakobmaier/what-are-we-to-make-of-tao-lins-comeback
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this article trimmed and informative rather then a venue for a self-described "artist."
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The subject of this entry keeps removing anything negative. I had to put back in this "
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https://jezebel.com/alt-lit-icon-tao-lin-accused-of-horrific-rape-and-abuse-1641641060
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If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with
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is fraudulent in his behavior to self-promote. He has altered many entries on the
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ex-partner did not want people to discuss it because it was a private matter."
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to the subject of this article. Relevant policies and guidelines may include
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but since making a post about yourself on that site is against their rules
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if these two comments are removed, I will formally propose for deletion. --
643:) This user has contributed to the article. (repeated vandalism of article)
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Jezebel is a website - I have clarified this and added an internal link.
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after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add
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ruckus tao lin is causing just to have his fifteen minutes of fame.
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Tao Lin is 'Carles' on a relevant blog at www.hipsterrunoff.com .
154:. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the
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https://www.thecut.com/2014/10/doesnt-have-to-be-rape-to-suck.html
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to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
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is really just not important enough to warrant so much attention.
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Tao Lin tried posting a self-promotional post on Metafilter.com
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from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially
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this name appears 3 times without any explanation who it is
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When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the
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page as much as I should, so I appreciate the suggestions...
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here on the Talk page for independent editors to review, or
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I have just added archive links to one external link on
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Why is there still no mention of the rape allegations?
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allegations. Some, but not all, are collected below:
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1630:Recently, @
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1124:Breshkovsky
873:Gordon Lish
821:—Preceding
668:—Preceding
512:its history
496:24 May 2009
72:Start-class
1722:Categories
1692:WP:TWITTER
1340:WP:ELMAYBE
557:contact us
551:. You may
426:Literature
417:Literature
373:Literature
1636:WP:BLPSPS
1486:this tool
1479:this tool
889:Sisyphe42
878:Mewlhouse
719:and that
717:goodreads
161:Biography
101:Biography
40:libellous
1593:unsigned
1523:request.
1492:Cheers.—
1402:cbignore
1370:Terukiyo
1168:itsJamie
975:Adubsone
851:DC Hiker
823:unsigned
699:Jweather
641:contribs
631:Lambcorn
625:contribs
605:contribs
488:deletion
1543:Tacyarg
1502::Online
1431:checked
1396:my edit
1392:Tao Lin
1366:sources
1208:WP:BOLD
1206:As per
1202:Cleanup
1159:In the
1157:Comment
926:Cleanup
869:Tao Lin
670:undated
595:Banquil
508:Tao Lin
453:on the
328:on the
1617:Salvia
1410:nobots
1306:friend
1268:friend
1223:friend
1056:house.
989:Advert
937:phoebe
780:K2wiki
762:K2wiki
658:Gawker
652:Gawker
587:, and
504:merged
294:Alerts
78:scale.
1342:. --
1252:See:
1071:mess.
802:Ninly
744:Ninly
729:Ninly
506:into
500:merge
1705:talk
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727:. --
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516:here
150:and
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320:Low
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