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205:, I edited the page to adhere more closely with the layout of television articles. This included the creation of the "Development and production" section for content about the creation of the series. A second season in any television article would be a subsection or separate paragraph in development and production, and comments by the series creator about the possibility of an additional season falls under the umbrella of production.
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template, where we do not cram everything about the entire series into one article: there is still a basic overview article about the overall anthology at the umbrella title, but all of the content that's specific to a particular season is in a separate season sub-article titled with the actual title
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a suicide" etc. are grammatically correct, are also not able to see edit summaries. The section you created consists of insufficient information (just mentions the places that some scenes were filmed at, suspicious sources in need of better sources), there is no official information about season two,
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I'd rather floor the brakes on presuming an umbrella name based on journalistic writing. As a former newswriter in broadcast news (which also included entertainment news), and a reporter for news wire services, it was common to refer to TV shows with keywords after their names were established (for
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a style of PR/marketing writing out there in the world, in which words get overcapitalized completely without regard to standard
English capitalization rules — companies' or organizations' own press releases about themselves, for example, will capitalize every word in a person's job title ("Account
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and then you actually fixed them. You have to check the edits before reverting. The issues have been corrected already, I can't figure out why you wrote this message. The history of this article only shows that I updated critical reception section, fixed the grammar and added another section titled
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When you say an editor has done this or that, you need to show what it is you're talking about. And your edit history on this article shows that you've deliberately ignored MOS more than once. A "my way or the highway" disposition is unconstructive and anti-cooperative, and anathema to the goals of
1718:
There are a ton of sources using "The
Haunting of Hill House," including the main source, Netflix. What is there using "The Haunting" - a tweet? That very tweet is from "The Haunting of Hill House" and there is no twitter account for "The Haunting" or "The Haunting of Bly Manor." Guessing about
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The article is missing a // Development and production // section and a // Release // section. It's also not normal for citations to be included in the Cast and characters section, and all of the current ones are about actors joining the production -- which belongs in content about development.
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been retitled "The
Haunting". The shorthand "Haunting" has been used for marketing the second season, but the title of Season 2 is not "The Haunting: Bly Manor". And Season 1 has not been renamed by Netflix, Amblin, and Paramount as "The Haunting: Hill House". The official name of Season 2 is
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Except that you manually replaced a fair use (uploaded 24 October 2018), legitimate screenshot of the title card in the infobox with a promotional photo file published in
Netflix's Facebook account. There was no need for replacing the screenshot file of the show's title card — which is what a
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name was stated first, then it would be referred to as "Sabrina", then the full name stated again before ending the news story). It's still done today. The umbrella name, if there were to be one, should come from the mothership, which for THoHH and THoBM is
Netflix. Per
1702:- the title should match the sources, and the content should be largely limited to the "Hill House" episodes. Time will tell if the industry considers this a "season" or a standalone limited series. For now, treating them as two separate series is the safer option. --
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I suggest that a ==Season 2== section be added to this article which explains that the series became an anthology after Season 1, provides some information about the second season, and includes a {{Main|The
Haunting of Bly Manor}} template link to the article.
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as separate standalone series, which crosslink each other as related but have no parent article at all because there's no reliably sourceable umbrella title for a parent article to be given, and thus both just get listed directly in the disambiguation page for
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part of what you're arguing that link confirms the title to be. You can't cherrypick just the convenient parts of a sentence, discard the inconvenient parts, and pretend that's a mic drop: capitalization doesn't prove that it's the "official title" if the
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Whether the use of the word "haunting" is how you see it, or whether it is being used as a verb or a keyword, at this point in time there is no definitive announcement by
Netflix (and series producers) that the series has been officially renamed
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the name change is announced ... If, on the other hand, reliable sources written after the name change is announced continue to use the established name, Knowledge should continue to do so as well." Reliable sources (for example,
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but link to the season-specific articles for season-specific content, or try to figure out what else to do if there's still no clearly sourceable umbrella title — it is in fact entirely possible that we will just have to treat
705:; if the article can be split into separate season articles, it can (although there's almost no content to support that at the moment), but we should just treat it as a regular show and include all information here for now. --
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capitalization rules and not companies' own marketing bumf. So what is or isn't capitalized in a piece of marketing writing isn't proof of what is or isn't the title — what we would need to see is one or more pieces of
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I'm not the editor who moved the page, obviously, and in fact I've had virtually no prior involvement in the article — but it's still fairly obvious that the page move happened soon after a second season, to be titled
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your 16:37 edit. Do you understand the meaning of the word "timeline"? If you do, then why did you not see that what you got bent out of shape about did not exist in the article? Did you not see these edits:
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and explained in the summaries -- and increasing the wordage of the plot description when it was already maxed (with a hidden message included providing the reason why it could not be further increased).
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television series infobox should contain, if possible. Also, Knowledge
Commons deletes files when they do not meet the appropriate criteria, and something about the deleted .png file didn't.
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states preference for: "the name that is most commonly used (as determined by its prevalence in a significant majority of independent, reliable
English-language sources)". The policy for
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and also increased the length of the Plot in defiance of the hidden message advising editors that the length exceeded the maximum wordage and could not be increased, and the reason why.
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1318:: "Ambiguous or inaccurate names for the article subject, as determined in reliable sources, are often avoided even though they may be more frequently used by reliable sources" and
760:." I don't need to provide a links-bomb of all the sources that exist where "The Haunting of Hill House" is the name used for the series before the concept of an anthology got the
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when reporting on the series, but a name change to "The
Haunting" has not been announced by the network and producers that decide what name their series is going to be known by.
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Representative", "Chief Financial Officer", "Associate Professor", "Executive Producer", etc.) — but obviously we don't replicate that style of writing here, because we follow
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Please do not modify my comments. And you have given no support or basis for separating the articles out into separate series articles, rather than separate season articles.
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2. It stays as is and we include info about season 2, until there's enough information (cast, episodes, production, etc.) and it's then spun-off into its own article, titled
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If no one else beats me to the punch, I intend to add the missing sections and transfer the citations about actors to support information about the production of the series.
1853:." I've stated that it's a keyword being used to promote the forthcoming season. On its official Twitter account for THoHH, Netflix advertised the new second season as: "
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the creation of separate articles. Support if they are separate season articles, but not separate series articles. They are separate seasons, not separate series. Also:
103:), and although incompatible for Wikimedia Commons, it should be uploaded directly to Knowledge. Fair Use in specific cases is explicitly permitted in Knowledge, as per
100:
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what sources might do in the future is conjecture, right now sources are almost universally using the original name. I support the move back to the original name.--
873:, was announced. So, basically, somebody original-researched a new umbrella title for the overall anthology even though there's no almost no actual content about
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splitout is justified, there will most likely be a clearer indication of what the reliably sourceable overall umbrella title for the project is: whether that's
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Knowledge:File copyright tags: "Commons does not allow fair use material, but non-free can still be used on the English Knowledge under certain conditions.".
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advising him that his edit was not only disruptive, but he also could not increase the plot. His response was to delete my message and summarize it with a
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17:
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1459:: "include fixing indentation levels". As it stands, you did not respond to anyone's comment. You can, of course, create your own discussion topic.
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the name that is most commonly used (as determined by its prevalence in a significant majority of independent, reliable English-language sources)
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was done without consensus. And even if a handful of editors had gone along with changing the original title of this article, it would still be
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The history of this article only shows that I updated critical reception section, fixed the grammar and added another section titled "Future".
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Your comment was not "modified". Its content was not changed. But since you seem to be unaware of Knowledge guidelines for talk pages: see
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116:. Additionally, in the specific case of "The Haunting of Hill House" and other promotional materials, it also falls under Fair Use as per
986:, since as of right now that's clearly the expected and sourced title of the thing we can actually write and source actual content about.
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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a
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the "umbrella title" for the whole series — it's just marketing bumf written in marketing style, not evidence of the title per se. There
619:
Since this is now an anthology series, should the cast for Hill House be listed under a subheading of Season 1? Same with the premise? --
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Your undoing a page layout that brought the article closer to the guidelines of MOS:TV was not a one-time edit: the first time was your
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either we can split out an overview article about the project as a whole, which would cover the general aspects that are common to both
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Since the series has been renewed for a second season and is now an anthology, how should we handle this article? I'm thinking, either:
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Cautiously editing or removing another editor's comments is sometimes allowed, but normally you should stop if there is any objection.
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I reverted this edit to return the page to the former layout. Then I went into the editing screen and re-corrected grammatical errors
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section titles to the former and re-positioned Development and production to precede the Episodes section on 02:44, 2 November 2018.
1148:
Consider that there's a difference between "Stuff being haunted continues in 2019" and "The series which has been officially titled
815:
199:(aka WP:MOSTV and MOS:TV). The personal preferences of individual editors have no relevance in how articles are created and edited.
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Are verbs often capitalized? No. When are they? When they are used in a title. Now, for your personal definition of the sentence?
282:...) These are the only issues. You should check your grammar first, then we will see if you are capable of recommending WP:MoS.
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After the lead was edited, with Knowledge policy provided in the edit summary, the same word-for-word statement was restored on
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announced that the umbrella name for their series is "The Haunting". And in the requested move discussion below, you state: "
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the comments made by other editors. Additionally, you also seem to not be able to fully grasp Knowledge policies ... again:
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you made the following edit: section title, increased plot, and undid the updated page layout and titles of other sections.
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is a separate season, not a separate series, and hence should only be split to a season article, same as the first season,
472:"Netflix Orders TV Series Adaptation Of ‘The Haunting of Hill House’ Book From Mike Flanagan, Amblin TV & Paramount TV"
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When did editors of this TV article decide that its title was going to be different than the official name of the series,
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1015:) with an ancillary name for each season, Netflix has not titled its series "The Haunting", nor has it announced that
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when the time comes, most likely in late 2019 or early 2020, that there's actually sourceable stuff to say about it.
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The issue has been one and the same: your undoing the changes made to the page layout -- changes that were based on
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TV articles have policies and guidelines that need to be followed by all editors. The guide for this article is
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is also not permitted. Except for quoted material, adding verbatim content to an article is considered a
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is the guide for articles about TV programs, how they are constructed, and what they should contain.
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By that logic, that link makes the title of this series "The Haunting Continues" — because the word
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because it would not be supported with reliable sources. Additionally, regarding titles of articles
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after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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yet except that it's been announced, so there's not yet grounds for a standalone article about it.
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The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion:
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No. It doesn't. You appear to be unaware of the use of key words in promotional language.
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have no basis to split a season to a separate series article. Do try to keep up, buddy-o.
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Instead, I'm going to suggest the alternative that this should more or less follow the
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In case you haven't actually read the entire contents of this discussion: Netflix has
359:"Future". And yet, you accuse me. So, I won't look or reply to your nonsense anymore.
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that it means the latter rather than the former, so you need better proof than that.
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You should stop being a pleonastic, and look to the edits and their summaries first.
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833:) about it that confirm the name? What possible reason was given for going against
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Regarding jurisdiction, English Knowledge permits usage of copyrighted work, as per
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A properly uploaded image which is properly tagged is a clear case of fair use (see
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Verbatim text from an external source is only acceptable in Knowledge when it is a
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You did revert my edits and replaced them with an old revision made by another user
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before it constitutes a valid reason against the move request. It's certainly not
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You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —
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If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the
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Good point. "Continues" should be noted in the title as well. Cheers for that.
416:. After seeing that you had undone the layout again, I opened this discussion.
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Knowledge. Every time anyone indulges in hubris, they lose ground to stand on.
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to original title, per consensus in the two discussions on this page — Martin
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But for the time being, the existing article should rightly be moved back to
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252:. Input by other editors regarding the layout and MOS:TV guide are welcome.
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Bill Graham Archives vs Dorling Kindersley Ltd., 448 F.3d 605 (2d Cir. 2006)
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Knowledge policy includes article titles. For how to title an article see
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that? I've provided a source for the title, direct from Netflix, and you
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At this point, further changes to the article's layout should be made by
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the end of what you're claiming it proves as the "official title", is
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of an article states: "give extra weight to reliable sources written
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has not titled its series "The Haunting", nor has it announced that
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https://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Image_use_policy#Fair-use_images
1072:(Btw and fyi, there's a paranormal drama anthology series called
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for the best way to handle Season 2/"The Haunting of Bly Manor".
1801:, as previously stated, and the opposing comment has no basis.
504:. Knowledge may tolerate bold edits, but it does not tolerate
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Do not pathetically change the subject toward one issue only.
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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this
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I say definitely the first option. The series is now titled
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that were also restored when the page revert was performed.
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Netflix already describes the series continuing in 2020 as
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yet beyond very brief acknowledgements that it's happening.
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After this edit I left a message on User:Sebastian James's
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That's using the word haunting as a verb, not as a title.
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Nothing to support the use "as a verb, not as a title".
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Once there's a cast and premiere for Season 2, yes. --
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Some editors are not familiar with Knowledge policies.
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I discovered that the article's title had been changed
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as the name for the second season. On the same date,
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Neither of those relate to the splitting of articles.
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a
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two editors discussed changing title of this article
278:so you can't call it "season two" (and you call it
1930:. No further edits should be made to this section.
1631:will in the future be known under the series name
1200:capitalized in that same sentence, yet is somehow
1023:will in the future be known under the series name
207:In contradiction and without providing a summary,
1322:: "give extra weight to reliable sources written
1849:states that the word "haunting" is being used "
1831:And that is your personal opinion on the topic.
912:Accordingly, the way forward I propose is this:
239:to his preference on 16:37, 1 November 2018.
1589:was renewed for a second season as an anthology
562:reverted to non-copyvio status for 3rd time on
304:However, this is the condition of the article
764:as the second season -- and the first season
670:and it includes information from both seasons
527:matter and for future reference: the phrase "
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299:summary for your 16:37, 1 November 2018 edit
1286:as an umbrella title that encompasses both
1249:Well, no. "The Haunting Continues" is even
480:The project is a modern re-imagining of....
466:. This phrasing was published in the 2017
18:Talk:The Haunting of Hill House (TV series)
1536:The following is a closed discussion of a
1473:. Read it. Read them both word-for--word.
159:Missing sections and location of citations
1613:. As I pointed out in my comment in the
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550:reverted to non-copyvio status again on
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1601:The Haunting of Hill House (TV series)
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1134:And you know this with certainty how?
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118:Knowledge:File copyright tags/Non-free
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1555:The result of the move request was:
1156:to prove that your source means the
1103:: "The Haunting Continues in 2020".
197:Knowledge:Manual of Style/Television
166:Knowledge:Manual of Style/Television
1152:continues in 2019". The onus is on
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1035:moving this article back to
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1678:) not only continue to use
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269:You, a person who thinks "
219:I reverted this change on
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1845:In the discussion above,
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1748:and the second season as
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1529:Requested move 7 May 2019
1493:I have objected - do you
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1543:Please do not modify it.
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843:Paramount Television
210:User:Sebastian James
1489:Speaking of TALKO:
740:. Season 1 remains
502:copyright violation
1740:Support series as
1660:The New York Times
1645:. The policy for
1609:. On 4 May 2019,
1416:Support series as
1162:inherently obvious
1046:the creation of a
615:Premise & Cast
538:edit reverted on
468:Deadline Hollywood
86:Community Tech bot
1651:changing the name
1639:Amblin Television
1570:
1027:. Therefore, I:
839:Amblin Television
535:added 10 November
394:, 1 November 2018
385:, 31 October 2018
310:, 1 November 2018
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1799:The Haunting
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1742:The Haunting
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1928:move review
1672:Radio Times
1664:Screen Rant
1548:move review
762:green-light
574:18 November
564:18 November
558:18 November
552:18 November
546:17 November
540:11 November
36:This is an
1772:series as
1557:Moved back
1495:comprehend
1463:comprehend
1288:Hill House
1272:journalism
1075:A Haunting
964:Hill House
955:Hill House
686:Thoughts?
1924:talk page
1704:Netoholic
1309:example:
1292:Bly Manor
1194:Continues
968:Bly Manor
959:Bly Manor
935:Bly Manor
907:Bly Manor
875:Bly Manor
766:continues
756:states: "
525:copyright
494:quotation
470:article
275:completed
250:consensus
227:Talk page
61:Archive 1
1926:or in a
1864:" or "
1862:Haunting
1668:TV Guide
1471:WP:TITLE
1453:WP:TALKO
1264:standard
1253:clearly
243:returned
235:He then
122:Ferkijel
1777:": see
1770:In re "
1721:LowRise
1700:Support
1676:Hypable
1619:Netflix
1591:, with
1316:WP:UCRN
1296:Bearcat
1276:Variety
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1166:Bearcat
1122:Bearcat
1044:support
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988:Bearcat
835:Netflix
754:WP:UCRN
531:" was
39:archive
1738:Oppose
1158:latter
1098:Oppose
849:WP:NOR
841:, and
770:called
768:to be
460:of....
375:MOS:TV
315:before
1779:WP:OR
1655:after
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1324:after
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966:and
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692:talk
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