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page acts as though this information doesn't exist at all. It doesn't even list the information and describe it as disputed, so the reader can then investigate, it conceals it completely, so the reader never finds out in the first place. If anyone has or is deliberately removing it, they should have their editing ability blocked and their location and other editing activity should be investigated. Concealing true and relevant information, regardless of whether it's on behalf of a totalitarian government overseas or due to anger towards a domestic politician that first said it, should be treated with deadly seriousness by this site and any other reputable media or reference source.
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936:(Reverse transcription polymerase chain reaction) testing of untreated wastewater samples from Brazil and Italy suggests detection of SARS-CoV-2 as early as November and December 2019, respectively, but the methods of such sewage studies have not been optimised, many have not been peer reviewed, details are often missing, and there is a risk of false positives due to contamination or if only one gene target is detected.
150:, at the end of November 2019. The child, who had no reported travel history, was admitted to hospital with a cough and was suspected of having measles after showing symptoms that included vomiting, difficulty breathing and rashes. The biological material collected from his throat was frozen and stored at −80 °C (−112 °F) and later analyzed in a study published by the
1110:. The study found evidence that suggests antibodies in samples from about 106 of the 7389 samples (1.4%) with some of those positive samples being taken between 13 and 16 December 2019. The report for the study suggests "that SARS-CoV-2 infections may have been present in the United States in December 2019, earlier than previously recognized."
862:
The US state department and an intelligence report, as confirmed by the Wall Street
Journal, both found evidence that the first three cases of this virus were from scientists at the Wuhan Institute of Virology in November 2019. The Biden administration is of course investigating it now as well. This
828:
Francis D'Souza CEO of
Illumina writes in a science article that he was contacted in November 2019 to help sequence a NEW virus causing pneumonia in Wuhan. It was his machine that originally sequenced this virus in Wuhan by Zhang Yongzhen by January 5th 2020. Mr D' Souza's statement makes it clear
1042:
It is not classified by the publisher/PUBMED as a "review", and although the authors call it that, the primary purpose of their article seems to be to propose their own testing methodology. The problem with using what I shall call "the secondary bits in primary sources" is that they are there not
162:
The
Italian National Institute of Health looked at 40 sewage samples collected from wastewater treatment plants in northern Italy between October 2019 and February 2020. An analysis released in June 2020 said samples taken in Milan and Turin on 18 December showed the presence of SARS-CoV-2.
1279:
I believe the article could cite the reports, but not necessarily claim the virus was there based solely on those reports. But I confess I don't know much about how
Knowledge writes about medicine. Is it better to simply not address those reports unless they're scientific consensus?
1028:, and medical guidelines or position statements published by major health organizations." (italics added). Would that not apply to the article here, given that it cites 99 source, makes recommendations, and appears in a reliable specialist publication?
594:
The section #Events, reactions and measures is repetitive of the rest of the content and how these events etc. are separated from the rest of the timeline is unclear. Unless there are objections, I'll combine the content into a single timeline.
626:
I'm therefore considering strengthening the page-restrictions to require all epidemiological statements to be supported by a high-quality secondary source as required by MEDRS, and to ban completely the addition of preprints to the article.
517:
Hi, please break out your case for deletions as they relate to 4 unrelated segments. Then we can see which needs to be fixed within each of them. Your original deletion of "unreliable/undue" is not helpful and overly vague. Thanks
532:
No, it was completely accurate. I have better thing to do than waste my time discussing crappy sources that you have inserted for no reason other than that you seem to want to have a long process of discussion. The
87:. There likely needs to be a stronger reliance on secondary scholarly sources rather than primary studies (especially preprints) and news stories about them, and more discussion of the strength of evidence.
829:
that COVID-19 was known in Wuhan BEFORE the so called supposed index case of
December. Extrapolating this data makes it clear that COVID was a problem by October/ November 2019 or even earlier, in Wuhan.
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which states that there was an increased number of anomalous postings on twitter discussing dry cough and pneumonia. The analysis was for dates starting 2019-12-01. Worthy for inclusion?
59:
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want to include. Since you have restored legitimately challenged (and obviously unsuitable) content without consensus, I strongly suggest you self-revert before this gets escalated.
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and their consent is essential to any modification. If there are no other compelling objections, I propose to amend the page-specific restrictions within the next couple of days. --
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tested positive for SARS-CoV-2 in a PCR test. The study has been peer-reviewed. Should it be included? There are other examples of sewage water samples showing early cases.
365:
I've removed the recently published Milan case, I couldn't find a reliable medical secondary source. We need such sources to put the findings of primary studies in context.
502:- please see your Talk page for a notification about the sanctions in effect for this topic. With those in mind, I suggest you self-revert to avoid falling afoul of them.
760:
I don't know enough about the area to be confident to add this myself, but the following article claims that a Covid case occurred in northern Italy in
November 2019:
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No. There appears to be no previous discussion on the study on this talk page or the two archives. The words are backed up by a reference to a reputable journal.
1106:
A similar study was conducted on blood serum samples taken in several states in US between mid
December 2019 and mid January 2020. The samples were taken by the
1124:"Serologic Testing of US Blood Donations to Identify Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome Coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2)–Reactive Antibodies: December 2019–January 2020"
951:"Sewage analysis as a tool for the COVID-19 pandemic response and management: the urgent need for optimised protocols for SARS-CoV-2 detection and quantification"
47:
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give to an broad overview of the field (as is the case in genuine review articles), but picked to bolster the case for the research being proposed. This is why
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is being interpreted as "it's okay to use anything that's a reliable source (subtext: even if it doesn't meet MEDRS)". I was wondering whether something like:
1243:
200:
Semi-log plot of coronavirus daily deaths by region: Hubei
Province; mainland China excluding Hubei; the rest of the world (ROW); and the world total.
384:
I've removed the
Italian sewage study, sourced to Reuters, and instead added a brief mention of these studies sourced to a recent review article.
339:
85:
Knowledge talk:WikiProject
Medicine#Does an article stating there is evidence SARS-CoV-2 was in the US in December fall under MEDRS or just RS?
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to re-insert poorly-sourced material (including lay press, primary sources, and preprints), largely biomedical in nature, into the article.
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All epidemiological content added to this article must be supported by sources deemed acceptable for medical content, as documented in
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1024:, or to combine results of several studies. Examples include literature reviews or systematic reviews found in medical journals,
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Any challenged edits may not be reinstated in whole or in part before an agreed consensus has been reached on the talk page
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about another Italian study (a preprint) claiming a March 2019 detection explains well why its likely to not be accurate:
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I removed the plots of incidence, etc., as those date to January 2020 onwards so are not relevant to a 2019 timeline.
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of cases by region: Hubei Province; mainland China excluding Hubei; the rest of the world (ROW); and the world total.
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as administrators who have been actively considering how the COVID-19 sanctions might apply, to consider this case.
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A discussion of studies of early SARS-CoV-2 identification in samples and standards of sourcing, particularly
764:(accepted for publication in the British Journal of Dermatology). Maybe this should be added to the page? --
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sources are needed for such things, and would need to agree the pandemic began earlier than thought.
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I added an edit notice about MEDRS, but there's an error message. Anyone know how to fix it?
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307:(in Chinese). National Health Commission of the People's Republic of China. Archived from
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https://theconversation.com/amp/was-coronavirus-really-in-europe-in-march-2019-141582
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882:: Early warnings of COVID-19 outbreaks across Europe from social media, 2021-01-25
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Talk:Severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2#Early Italian virus detection
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If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the
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It would spell it out, though many editors still read right past edit notices!
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No preprints may be used to source epidemiological content in this article
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Michael-Kordatou, I.; Karaolia, P.; Fatta-Kassinosa, D. (October 2020).
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I thought that was what the page restriction required: to follow MEDRS.
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It looks to me like we are having far too many edits that fail to meet
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confirming full identity to the Wuhan-sequenced virus (Wuhan-HU-1).
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before we can confidently place something as a fact on a timeline.
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Before long we're going to have such reports from every country!
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to provide an overview of current understanding of the topic, to
282:"Italy sewage study suggests COVID-19 was there in December 2019"
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of confirmed cases and deaths in China and the rest of the world.
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This page is concealing information, which is a serious problem
905:
Journal of Environmental Chemical Engineering: Sewage analysis
25:
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Should be fixed now. Please ping me if any problems recur. --
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here, given the majority of sources on this page are not
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Talk:Timeline of the COVID-19 pandemic in 2019/Archive 2
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I had hoped that would be the effect, but it seems that
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Amendola, Antonella; Bianchi, Silvia (8 December 2020).
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summarizes one or more primary or secondary sources
257:"CDC: COVID-19 found in Milan boy in November 2019"
563:is not self-reverting but appealing for more eyes.
630:The page restrictions were originally imposed by
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678:All information added to this article must be
336:"Tracking coronavirus: Map, data and timeline"
18:Talk:Timeline of the COVID-19 pandemic in 2019
955:Journal of Environmental Chemical Engineering
138:The earliest confirmed coronavirus case with
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1012:Looking at the definition of secondary on
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756:Covid cases in Milan in November 2019?
411:. I'm not sure whether to include it.
44:Do not edit the contents of this page.
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142:method was a four-year-old boy, in
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1294:Actually, as far as can be seen,
824:First Genetic sequencing COVID-19
342:from the original on 2 April 2020
255:Salo, Jackie (9 December 2020).
29:
1242:A sewage water sample taken on
537:is on you to argue for content
488:Poorly-sourced content reverted
75:Relevant discussion of sourcing
1308:11:21, 10 September 2021 (UTC)
1190:It's primary research failing
886:Here's an interesting article
1:
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727:23:27, 22 December 2020 (UTC)
664:21:09, 22 December 2020 (UTC)
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590:Restructure into one timeline
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102:14:21, 16 December 2020 (UTC)
1244:27th November 2019 in Brazil
1128:Clinical Infectious Diseases
1065:apply is a moveable feast.
1016:we have "A secondary source
816:16:21, 9 February 2021 (UTC)
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495:has performed a large revert
223:Emerging Infectious Diseases
131:Removed content due to MEDRS
909:Why is this not considered
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1061:It seems which aspects of
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338:. BNO News. 1 April 2020.
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1208:It's difficult not to be
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1091:What's wrong with this?
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685:(further information at
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1022:make recommendations
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107:Agree. We need good
152:University of Milan
1153:Did you miss this?
1108:American Red Cross
779:Not reliable. See
671:Fences and windows
632:Fences and windows
311:on 26 January 2020
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932:A study of
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158:18 December
36:This is an
1141:2021-06-15
561:Albertaont
520:Albertaont
500:Albertaont
493:Albertaont
315:9 February
205:References
1216:standard.
1210:WP:POINTy
888:in Nature
797:Also see
188:of daily
66:Archive 2
60:Archive 1
1300:Chumpih.
1296:WP:MEDRS
1282:Mateussf
1263:WP:MEDRS
1248:Mateussf
1218:Chumpih.
1214:Cochrane
1192:WP:MEDRS
1178:Chumpih.
1093:Chumpih.
1067:Chumpih.
1063:WP:MEDRS
1045:WP:MEDRS
1030:Chumpih.
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