946:, but it may take more time before the "cultural significance" of the individuals (which at the moment is dubious at best) to disapate fully. At that time the only thing remembered is the event, not the people. Anyway, they don't appear to be notable at all outside of the "Tipton Three", and thusly Knowledge (XXG) would be better off having one encylopedic quality article instead of 3 stubby articles that provide nothing more than what is already said on the "main" article that links the three (or should at least). Stub articles that don't delve into any detail (and usually sit unedited for months, if not up to a year) are the bane of wikipedia.
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reader going to have an easier time seeing that difference and understanding its significance comparing the two side-by-side rather than moving between articles trying to collect the whole story? If the differences are not significant (Ahmed's detainee number was 110, Rasul's was 86) then what's the point of covering them, and taking so many articles to do so? I wish I could get those committed to subdividing every subject into its smallest possible component parts and isolating those components in separate articles to actually sit and discuss the implications of their choice. --
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fact is that the only account of this "confession" is extremely vague on the circumstances and timescale of what actually happened. Thus far people have been keen to portray it as something both premeditated and methodical, when equally it could have been something unexpected and fleeting. Until a more detailed account becomes available, it can't be emphatically reported any other way than it already is.
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1156:"Ownership of body armour and nightvision equipment is not a crime in the UK." didn't say it was but of course it should be (the only people around me who use those items are gang bangers). But if you take that 4 and add to it the multiple flights to war zones involving islamic militants such as Bosnia and his admission that he added these groups while there you soon get to 13 no problem at all.
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purpose of him going to
Afghanistan, or if it was just something that cropped up while he was there. We know that he and his friends were taken without their intention further into the country and Taliban-controlled areas, so the visit to the camp may very well have happened effectively against his wishes once there.
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OK, the Three's story is that they were taken without their intention, effectively as cannon fodder for the
Taliban. Once in that rock/hard place situation, it doesn't take a genius to work out that them not co-operating/playing along/whatever isn't going to be the smartest move. However, the simple
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programme review simply states he, "confessed not only to visiting an
Islamist training camp but also handling weapons and learning how to use an AK47." None of this was quantified. "Visit" could mean a couple of hours and "handling weapons" means very little, as well. When I was 11 or 12, I went to
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are individual. You say it "throws roadblocks" before the reader who wants to read about the individual. I say it throws roadblocks before the reader to lead him to believe there are four separate articles about the Tipton Three only for him to discover that the four articles duplicate information
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Lets have a look at this confession, it takes place in a show whose aim was to prove thier innocence, that they agreed to go on. Then once the nature of the technology is explained in detail to them one bottles it and pulls out (no idea what that indicates!) and the other goes on to try to beat the
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In general small focussed articles, in my opinion, serve the wikipedia much better than larger omnibus articles. I don't understand why so many wikipedians seem to want to confine the wikipedia, which could more closely emulate the branching, multidimensional nature of human knowledge, to the same
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Cyberbot II has detected that page contains external links that have either been globally or locally blacklisted. Links tend to be blacklisted because they have a history of being spammed, or are highly innappropriate for
Knowledge (XXG). This, however, doesn't necessarily mean it's spam, or not a
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I suppose it's still technically possible that three radical
Islamists just happened to be in Afghanistan during the period when radical Islamists were being called to war, but that they declined, or as you say, perhaps they were forced to go along with it even though it was somehow against their
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rifle on their range. That didn't make me a member of the TA. Editors should not exagerate Ahmed's experiences until there is a verified source justifying it. "Training" implies something more systematic and premeditated. We do not know if the "visit" in question was the sole or even an ancillery
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In general, articles which focus on some sort of overview of a subject serve
Knowledge (XXG) much better than articles which zoom in on minute levels of detail and often have nothing of significance to say at that level. If Ruhal Ahmed was significantly different from Shafiq Rasul then isn't the
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It's a shame that the U.S. government kept their findings classified. The three were released prior to the CSRT process, and so we don't even have that. The only thing we had before was the detainees' own version of events -- anti-American spin and all. This confession may be the first truly
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Specifically, the men all have separate lives, have written separate documents, which are referred to in other articles in the wikipedia. When one of their writings is described elsewhere there is a link to the individual's name. It would be a disservice to readers to merge and redirect those
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But strangly thousands upon thousands of aid workers (many britsh, many muslim and some both) have travelled to hundreds of warzones without learning to use one. Yes i'm upset that the supposed C4 journo's couldn't be bothered to extract his full military training history.
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machine. He fails, then he admits he was trained in how to use an ak-47 at an islamic militant camp (note not a taliban camp). The problem was the show was setup to prove his innocence and they had no idea what to do when they "broke" him, they did not push for more info.
1349:-- I told the person I thought this was a mistake. Prior discussion was that references to Geographic locations like the city, district and bay would use the Spanish spelling. The Naval Base, the detention camp, and the captives should use the English spelling.
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Ownership of body armour and nightvision equipment is not a crime in the UK. Don't put two and two together and try to get 13. However, it's clear that you're being deliberately obtuse, so there no point in trying to explain the virtues of impartiality to you.
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that
Knowledge (XXG) has on the Tipton Three he has to read each of these four articles but most of that time will be wasted; unless he happens by random chance to save the best for last, he'll read articles only to find out that they contain
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Well, if you're going to cherry-pick from
Aaronovitch's article, why not also quote his clear statement of, "I am emphatically not saying here that I believe that the Tipton Three took up arms in Afghanistan and fought for the Taleban"?
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No, you have to view it objectively. If someone asked me, "have you ever handled and fired military spec weapons," I could not truthfully say, "no," could I? In a certain context and without clarification, that could look incriminating.
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Sorry, but all you've done is pointed out that previous editing on
Knowledge (XXG), most of which seems to have been done by you, have taken it for granted that each of the individuals should have their own individual article simply for
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had nightvison goggles and a bulletproof vest due to his long interest in military history, some people will believe anything! Unless you have a specific change you think should be made to this article i'm finished.
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Three radical
Islamists who just happen to visit the "alma mater for jihadis" on their way through Afghanistan as it's calling out for fighters. Cannon fodder? Probably. Unwilling? Doesn't pass the laugh
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I wrote the wikipedian who did the change -- (they had done the change to dozens or hundreds of articles.) They acknowledged getting carried away, but didn't take any steps to fix their mistake.
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You're doing it again - "trained in how to use an ak-47"! You can learn the basics in five minutes. Ten year-old kids in warzones get sent out to fight with AK47s - it's hardly rocket science.
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1402:. If the link is blacklisted globally and you feel the above applies you may request to whitelist it using the before mentioned request page, or request it's removal, or alteration, at the
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In the article right now, each man has a separate section, but this article is about the "tipton three" so would it be possible to give a treatment on the subject as a group of three?
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1130:'s to there staff! Face it one of the three was caught in a lie about who trained him and in what, and the other two declined their chance to prove themselves innocent. Just like
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959:— I support having separate articles for different people. I have no problem with also having an article about a group of such people, and cross-linking between the articles. -
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linear flow forced upon paper documents. I wish I could get those committed to merging all related articles to actually sit and discuss the implications of their choice. --
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base. I got to "handle" various "weapons" - both inert training versions and unloaded functioning ones - and ended up being allowed to fire off a few rounds from a
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Somebody should have asked about the so-called "abuse" they'd received at GTMO while they had him on the lie detector. That still seems to be taken at face value.
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The only thing we really do know is that they didn't publicly admit to visiting the training camp until one found himself unable to conceal it any longer.
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I strongly oppose merging the articles about each of the three men from Tipton into an article about the Tipton Three.
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And, indeed, that's true, but he wrote that before one failed the lie detector test, and the other remained silent.
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non-biased revelation. That the second one clammed up is another fact we now have. Everything else is unreliable.
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ROFL, oh it was an al queda open day, why did he just not say that! Thats ok then! Thanks for the laugh nick.
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In the first instance, how do you know? And secondly, how do you know he's got one? You're just speculating.
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on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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articles to this one. It throws roadblocks before the reader who wants to read about the individual.
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42:. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to
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Their files showed up in today's batch of wikileaks document release. Quite interesting to read. --
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It's already been pointed out (although strangely missing from this article) that they were known
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good link. If the link is a good link, you may wish to request whitelisting by going to the
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I see no advantage in doing so. And I see many disadvantages, both specific and general.
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Wookipedian is right. Having seperate articles is easily the most sensible solution.
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radical Islamist principles. Still possible, but getting more and more unlikely.
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If you would like me to provide more information on the talk page, contact
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http://www.hurryupharry.org/2010/01/12/bbc-broadcasts-tipton-three-lies/
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1132:Moazzam Begg
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942:I would say
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841:Human rights
832:Human rights
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807:Human rights
750:project page
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82:WikiProjects
47:
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1440:cyberbot II
1376:91.32.72.83
1267:Nick Cooper
1210:Nick Cooper
1158:Hypnosadist
1147:Nick Cooper
1137:Hypnosadist
1115:Nick Cooper
1106:Hypnosadist
1096:Nick Cooper
1087:Hypnosadist
1077:Nick Cooper
1063:Hypnosadist
1053:Nick Cooper
1042:at a local
974:—Preceding
961:Wookipedian
759:Afghanistan
746:Afghanistan
705:Afghanistan
461:Start‑class
314:Structure:
1457:Categories
1025:revelation
948:Radagast83
754:discussion
1306:Randy2063
1245:Randy2063
1196:Randy2063
1126:hand out
155:Biography
101:Biography
40:libellous
1357:Geo Swan
1337:spelling
1040:open day
1035:Observer
988:contribs
976:unsigned
957:No merge
900:Geo Swan
883:No Merge
275:criteria
198:European
1031:Lie Lab
1023:Lie Lab
925:nothing
555:on the
514:England
505:England
458:England
194:British
72:C-class
1446:Online
1008:WP:BIO
650:Alerts
78:scale.
1240:test.
1124:Oxfam
944:merge
911:being
533:Start
1380:talk
1361:talk
1048:L1A1
1010:).
1004:IMHO
984:talk
144:and
1345:to
1304:--
1243:--
1225:If
1194:--
1128:m16
1038:an
920:all
860:???
778:???
676:???
547:Low
29:BLP
1459::
1382:)
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990:)
986:•
364:/
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192::
1378:(
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27:(
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