Talk:Traian Băsescu - Knowledge (XXG)

2711:. Instead, respective issues should be dealt with chronologically. For example in this case, the merchant fleet case is relevant for the early political career, and so on. However, some things do not have where to go, yet. For example, there is no (sub)section about the 2009 Presidential Elections campaign, but there is already one para about controversy related to that. That para can stay in the "Criticism and Controversies" section until a specific (sub)section about the 2009 campaign is written. Please, look at the current version, and honestly tell yourself: is it better or not than having all controversies lumped together? Which way it reads nicer, with criticisms/controversies all together, or with them separately by period with the relevant section? Thank you for your cooperation. 1403:

1,500 value the article is mentioning, and only 57bites/day. The source you are citing says that in one year (2001) the number of dogs put away was 47,916; adding for the four years Basescu was mayor it gives a value close to that mentioned in article. Also, 269,558 is, of course, not the yearly mean value, but the sum for all years 1984 to 2005; with values increasing with each year, until 2000. I do not know if the number given by the second article is valid (no source cited for that estimate); however is certain that the number of the stray dogs was on the rise again after 2004; this has two main reasons: first, the municipality policy against stray dogs went to the dogs, I mean it seems to have been seriously relaxed; and second, yes, the damned beasts are multiplying. --

2397:

into a separate article: because I realized it's very hard to trim it down, and since at the time nobody but me seemed interested in the article, trimming it too much would have been unilateral on my side. But now it should be easier: I can cut as much as I see necessary, knowing that you will be there to correct me. There is no risk of me erasing something valid by mistake, since you will immediately put it back. Although I do not share your belief that a separate article is a POVFORK, I believe editing here would be better than in a separate article, because the issues of that section would have to be addressed anyway: in a separate article or in a mere section. So we might as well do that.

1308:"Especially when saying that Basescu was condemned by almost all Romanian society, more than one refference is needed." This is quite an overstatement; yes, more then one reference is needed: a few millions. Surely, there still are many Romanians which hold that the communist regime should not be condemned at all, with or without any commission. Fact is that the manner in which Basescu treated this issue generated sharp criticism, from several columnists, public figures and fellow politicians. We do not know the reaction of the general public, save from the level of confidence the president had before and after that event; level which, as far as I know, did not change.-- 1155:

estate has been going up pretty fast: this factor of 15 is clearly beyond that increase but if (for example) he purchased the apartment in 2001, a factor of three or four would be no surprise even if he paid fair market value. Also, how can our article assert "The Law 122/1995 specifically prevented the sale from occurring…" if "…the prosecutors investigating the matter concluded Băsescu did not breach the law"? As I said, this seems like an anti-Băsescu polemic. I'll give at least a few days for someone to turn this into something more evenhanded and cited, but if it isn't fixed within a week or so, I will probably cut it to the talk page pending cleanup. -

2960:

serious issues about some of their edits. I have the record of over 3 years of editing WP, including a ton of controversial articles, but my record is clean because I separate between real life and editing WP, and between content disagreement (who doesn't disagree occasionally?) and civility. (Everybody must be treated with civility, even the extremists and the irrational people. In this case, on the contrary, Pohta is not an extremist and is rational, only that in this instance he looked at WP edits from a political perspective. But I am almost sure this would stop once the election campaign is over.)

2968:

totally agree with anyone who says that the article in general is in poor state, and would throw my support to help, but I don't have time and enough references to try this on my own.) In this section now, I did a rather bold edit, using in much more detail two sources. Obviously I would welcome any further changes, just please assume good faith and let's be calm, and concentrate on content issues. There is always a way to express things in a language acceptable to everybody if we trust each other as sincere editors simply wanting to improve WP. Everybody, thanks for your cooperation and dialog here.

2508:

existing info was presented in readable English. A lot of it was in "Englromanian" (and as readable as this word is :) ). Originally I moved content to a separate Criticism article because there was too much work to do (and I concentrated on the rest of the article), but I did that work now that Anonimu moved that content back here. I am not saying the version I left is good, I am just asking to compare it with the jeberish that was before. Any improvement would be more than welcome, and I whole-heartedly support Dahn's request (to all editors) to re-familiarize with

3999: 2411:

Obviously, I won't cut short your edits, even if they would be biased, at least because I feel it is imperative we clean this article a bit and identify all issues, so feel free to analyse the issues at ease and at large. Obviously, I won't promiss to agree with everything you say, but I promiss to think in good faith about everything you propose and edit. If you have any editing restrictions for this article, pls tell me, I would request an admin to remove them so that you can edit, at least until we arrive at something more clean.

1816:) appears in the article 96 of the Romanian Constitution and reffers to a different thing (high treason), which would require the vote of two thirds of the number of deputies and senators. Today, we are simply talking about the suspension from office (article 95 in the Romanian Constitution), which should be followed by a referendum to remove the President from office (or his resignation, if he acts like he said two days ago). The text of the Romanian Constitution is available (in English, Romanian and French) from 2449:, all accounts have to provide both sides, where both sides have expressed themselves in reliable sources. Having a "criticism" section/article is surely not equivalent to a text only mentioning criticism of TB, "if you want praise or even reactive arguments go elsewhere" - in whatever scenario, accounts have to go hand in hand. It also doesn't mean, as is annoyingly interpreted by both sides, that facts which the editor has interpreted as negative are listed there for keeping. No, criticism means just that: 1443:" ? I don't consider it's normal to have a summarized introduction to this article so biased. The author imply the idea that the President has won the elections through fraud(suspicious) not by a narrow margin(fact). Please reformulate it or move it to "Criticism and controversies". "allegations of electoral fraud" were coming from opposition parties claiming "trucks of evidences" but they failed to provide in court, reliable evidences to prove the allegations of fraud 2964:

section after "president of Romania" section. I think this is totally uncontroversial. If Basescu looses, this order of sections is correct, if he win, one simply needs to change the title "First terms as president", and start a new section "Second term as president". I also reordered two subsections of section "president" because policy should be discussed first, disputes and controversies - second. I believe this change would also be totally ok with other editors.

237: 213: 247: 181: 479: 362: 341: 119: 95: 3033:. That's not the perfect solution, but I claim it is the best solution to the dispute, since we can then concentrate on the latter article, and then create a resume to go here. About the sourced material that the user erased, I would like to point out that it is needed so that the article/section would not give undue weight to (in this case it was focusing around) criticism. See the other article. 372: 2441:. This is however a last resort, and, for those of us who actually care to read wikipedia policies and endorse its practices. Even more so is having a separate article on criticism. Why? Because it shows an inherent inability of editors to produce what is asked of them: a fair and balanced account of events, where conflicting opinions are neither advertised not tucked away, and where they are 3953: 2822:, please, I haven't read that article for very-very long time. I certainly have no interest in editing BLPs of presidential candidates and their major political opponents during electoral campaigns. But I would react, as I have reacted toady, if I see something weird going on. Why didn't you edit this article 1-2 months ago before the campaign, or 1-2 weeks later after the campaign? 309: 1962:

Parliament alone cannot do anything about it but suspend the President until popular vote; the law and fact that MP's had final say on the matter, regardelss of consultative avis by the Constitutional Court; reaction of those concerned with fantasy allegations for electoral law modifications to justify President decision to give up the "five minutes" resignation plan; et.c.

64: 1241:. He is credited for the reduction (albeit using very drastic measures such as large scale euthanasia) in numbers of stray dogs (euphemistically known as câini comunitari, "community" dogs) roaming freely among the streets of the city from approximately 200,000–300,000 in 2000 to 25,000 in 2004, and thus in the number of dog bite injuries from 1500/day to under 200/day; ( 2880:(MOR) is almost entirely absent in Romanian press, so the most NPOV thing one can do on any topic related to Romanian presidents is to cite sources on both sides, which is what I've done. And you claim that is "something weird going on" and revert!? I edited Basescu's article now because it struck my fancy to update some Romanian biographies (I also updated 129: 1791:

willy-nilly, provisional solutions just to make a point. It does not matter how small or big the templates are, as long as they help the outside user understand what the template is for, and not confitrm to the prior knowledge that we have of the matter! And, again: a template for heads of state is a solicism.

2030:"To many, it was more important that the president went home from a private party driving his own car, like any other citizen." To whom was it important? And this statement makes it sound like it is normal for the majority of Romanians to drink at a party and drive home afterwards "like any other citizen". 2598:

The part about the house is thoroughly sourced from not one, but two of the most reputable Romanian mainstream newspapers (i.e. no blogs, no tabloids, no marginal publications like Tricolorul). The article never said all those journalists were right, it just attributed their opinions about why affair

2468:

One final thing, gentlemen on both sides: if you insist on getting your info from blogs and the gutter press, with absolutely no analytical (let alone scholarly) content both negative or positive, and if you hold an article subject to those whims instead of determining the prevalent relevant opinions

1902:

Well he insulted the parliment and called politicians corrupt (which ofcourse they are but that won't go into an encyclopedia :p). The Constitutional Court didn't find him to have done anythin g to justify suspension but the parliment only has to consult the court, not abide by it's ruling. Right now

1763:

As to the heads of state of Romania, we don't have that many, so we could simply put them together, alongside with their title, and give up this "presidents of Romania" article (we only need a redirect page). The real issue is deciding whether to include Antonescu or not. Was he the head of state, or

1686:

heads of state of Romania were (consider that we have a separate article for kings and Domnitor, and consider having to fill out the Antonescu/Mihai issue - I could tell you why looking into official data would not help, but it would take too long). This is to say that the article and template should

1004:

The estimations are given by the reports of "Agentia pentru Supravegherea Animalelor" (Agency for animal control) of the mayor's office in Bucharest, first in 2000 and then, shortly before it was shut down by the Municipal Council in 2003. They may be exaggerated, but they are the only one available.

3352:

I'm not going to jump into such a heavily watched and contentious article out of nowhere, but I can't help but note that the many "citation needed" tags throughout the article would normally mean it doesn't qualify as a B-class article. Anyone see any good reason it shouldn't be demoted to C-class?

2684:

keeps removing the sub-sections in criticism because he doesn't agree with the tiles. But sections are badly needed there because of the multiple issues. Please propose more appropriate titles, but don't remove them outright. "Dosarul Flota" means nothing to English readers that don't grok Romanian.

1735:

I agree that perhaps Iliescu should only be counted once, in which case, since Ceauşescu was the first "President", Băsescu would be fourth: Ceauşescu, Iliescu, Constantinescu, Băsescu. And if we count the Council of 5 as one entity, and then Parhon by himself as the second republican head of state,

1324:

I interpret Tismaneanu's words like he doesn't subscribe to the opinion that Basescu tries to trick the civil society. He defended Basescu just because this special accuse was wrong; but in the interview he criticised him. Mabe we shouldn't mention nor that Basescu was accused of trying to trick the

1190:

I realy think you have no idea what are you reading. It's called "Controversies". And THAT is the 'controversy': the law said he was not allowed to buy that house and he did. The prosecutors stopped the investigation and "concluded Băsescu did not breach the law". But the controversy remains. If you

1119:

It seems to me that if this was, indeed, a misportrayal of his remarks by his opponents, then (accurate) discussion of the incident belongs in the article. It's still an interesting tidbit about the campaign, and an opponent's false statements about a candidate can be quite worth mentioning as such.

2921:

Well rather than walking away, I'd rather see you and Dc (who is away for most of the next day I thinkk) just speak here on the talk page on how you wish to improve the article. Both of you, do you want to change (sub-)section headings? Why? Do you want to move text around? Do either of you want to

1647:

I agree. If we count "chiefs of state", then Parhon, Groza, etc, are also in the list, as well as the Kings of Romania (and maybe Antonescu, but we must take a look into the official data of the time). If we count "Presidents of Romania", then Ceausescu is the first. The previous were presidents of

1506:

Answer: because the U.S. government is one of the best sources of public domain images. The Romanian goverment, and most of the postcommunist governments, retain copyright on all official photos, so we can't use them freely. When they meet a U.S. president, the U.S. government inevitably releases a

1268:

I removed the first line. For the second observation, if we agree that Bucharest has a problem with stray dogs (and, giving the event you are citing, that can hardly be denied), and if we agree that Basescu, as Mayor, did take actions to reduce their numbers (and, as far as I know, no one is saying

953:

The only place to search for real proof are the national archives of Bucharest. I don't know anybody willing to do the search (Most of the documents are not indexed, even fewer are indexed on computers - For a member of my family it took a month of being shoved around different locations and forced

4367:

Would it be correct to say that in the shadow of Traian Basescu presidency , P.S.D has stolen another two mandates .5 years plus five years of presidency are 10 years. In total , from 1989 ,30 years.More than 25 , which is a quarter of a century.So what s the catch.Question mark.Is Romania under

2963:

Back to the issues at hand. I am not saying Ion Iliescu's article is good, but if that article has problems, one should not repeat the same problems here, one just needs to correct them there. I hope everybody is in agreement on that. I made some edits now: I moved the "2009 presidential campaign"

2649:

I was about to accuse your edits of failing the exactly same things. :) It is very interesting how you do: you say exactly what is wrong, but you point the finger in the opposite direction, not at your edits. I suggest we ask for third opinion or mediation. How about Dahn? Or a random user? If you

2556:

roaming freely through the streets of Bucharest (not through euthanasia, but by building numerous shelter). The danger was very real, as pointed out by the sentence Anonimu keeps erasing: "Over a year after Băsescu left the office of the Mayor to becomes Romania's president, on January 29, 2006, a

2507:

Secondly, I would like to state that my interest in this article was only because I saw it was in a disdained state. I never expressed in WP my opinion about Basescu. I did not attempt to actually bring content to this article, I only tried to copyedit what was already in there, to ensure that the

2464:

At the moment, the article (and the "criticism" section, which I think should not only be merged in the article, but in the account itself) does indeed obsess over facts which are blown out of proportion, with much personal interpretation and serious amounts of nonsense. But that's another matter.

1257:

The first sentence is outrageous, as it does not provide any poll as reference. Also, presenting Basescu's version on his achivements is propaganda and has nothing to do with an encyclopedia. I also remember that dog euthanasia was a big schandal (many of those who were feeding stray dogs regarded

1154:

The passage about Băsescu's apartment in Bucharest lacks citation and reads like an anti-Băsescu polemic. It also seems to exaggerate its case by not mentioning the date of purchase for "the equivalent of US$ 19,301", comparing against a "current market value" around 300,000 euros. Bucharest real

3266:

Can a native Romanian speaker please comment on the correct placement of stress in the name "Traian"? The article currently shows stress on the last syllable () — but my impression is that, in fact, people either stress the first syllable (), or else they say his full name as if it were a single

2967:

So, now we can concentrate on the section "2009 presidential campaign". (If someone wants to improve other sections now, be my guest. Personally, I don't want to do that before the elections are over in order not to raise more real disputes or simple misunderstandings that can poison the wheal. I

2473:

negative) in the real world, if you continue to find your priorities not in providing a competent text, but in giving as much visual clues as possible as to which position you support, you are smothering this article. For those of you who have yet to familiarize yourself with how wikipedia works:

2396:

20% is a rough target, just based on what is there in other BLPs (now, you don't want to claim GWB wasn't criticized as much? :-) ). 10% or 30% would be also ok. The biggest problem I see is that this section is much more poorly written than the rest of the article. That was the reason I moved it

2064:

The part with suspension until parliament decides is no longer true - the Constitutional Court upheld the modifications of the Referendum Law, and decided on April 3rd that no matter how many people were present for the referendum, it will be valid. Even before, it was NOT up to the parliament to

1995:

Just don't forget that Knowledge (XXG) is not censored. The statement was not POV, as it is well sourced, so it has nothing to do with propaganda (look at sections about controversies on other politician's pages). You see, the negative propaganda is bad, but the whitewashing is bad too. It should

1957:

Someone should modify the impeachment part oft the article. It is highly biased by any standards, let alone by wikipedia's. Also it contains many unproved and unsourced accusations to other politicians and businessmen. I , also, being a romanian, don't agree with the president's impeachment, but

1478:

I mean, Iliescu's article shows his smiling with Bush, Constantinescu's article has him together with Clinton and Basescu has not one, but two pictures of the Romanian president talking to George W. Bush. I do not believe this reflects accurately the foreign policy of a country that will join the

1402:

Heh, it seems to me that the editor of that particular statistic got a little carried away; it should have bites/month not day. The source you mentioned gives 21,105 dog bites in 2000, the year Basescu ascended into mayoral office; this gives mean value of ~1,700 bites/month; somewhere around the

2959:

Dear Franamax, thank you very much for your time and effort here. I sincerely appreciate that. I assure you that I will always be civil, and I will not comment negatively and personally on my fellow editors (I reserve the right to comment positively about them personally), even if there would be

2624:

What the above editors fails to mentions is several factual inaccuracies he introduced: he claims Voiculescu is/was a shareholder at Petromidia, a fact that has no real base whatsoever, and refuses to allow a mainstream source to be attributed... while the source pretty clearly says "drinking" a

2410:

Anonimu, I do want to know your feedback on my changes. Even if you are restricted from editing somehow, if it does not bother other editors, I would like to ask you to edit here so that one can see the real or potential issues if there are any. Only one common-sense request: take a deep breath.

1288:

I don't think that we can talk of a refusal here, the title is somehow misleading. What generated that particular controversy was the fact that the president was not willing to proceed without any delay with this condemnation; instead he made this act dependent on the study and conclusions of an

1830:

I cannot comment right now on the precise wording of the Romanian Constitution, but let me just say that "impeachment" in English is more-or-less neutral -- it does not carry the "high treason" connotation that you seem to have in mind (though I'm not quite sure I read correctly your concern).

1961:

There are persons who tried, but it seems that the text reverted to a previous pro-Basescu version; and I really think it is useless to revert again and work on the text since people with such passionate views infect wikipedia: there were removed: references to popular vote for dismissal since

1790:

on wikipedia, and divide according to constitutional changes (especially when these are clear-cut, at the very least between republic and monarchy)? This will also: 1) spear us of having to theorize and (since Mihai is and would be on a template of Romanian kings); 2) prevent us from adopting,

2621:. Sourcing doesn't mean taking random sourced facts and mixing them in a way you like just to imply causality... Unless you find a reliable source specifically linking the death of a tourist to Basescu, that's just an anonymous editor using WP as a blog for his opinions and personal feelings. 2888:'s just before in case you wonder). As for why edit "during the campaign", well, this article doesn't even have a section for his 2009 campaign, so I'd say it needs editing. I hesitated creating a 2009 campaign section just with this "child hitting" incident, as it clearly would have been 1698:

necessary (I argue it is not); in any instance, the article for "Presidents" would not need to be changed (wikipedia conventions would not allow it), but simply, if necessary, the period 1948 to Ceauşescu's crowning as President (was it in 1971?) could be highlighted as clearly different,

1753:

Here's my oppinion: regardless of what we include in the list, I'd say Iliescu should be counted twice, because we do not count persons, but "president" instances of persons. In math, this is clear: Iliescu was 1st and 3rd. Simply saying "Iliescu was the first president" is misleading.

1721:

In that instance, you could introduce the formula "x was president number y, and zth republican head of state". About how many times we should count: I could go either way, but the world at large seems not to count Iliescu several times (or at least, does not bother with the issue).

797:

Basescu is only the elected President of Romania and doesn't currently hold office, he currently is Mayor of Bucharest. He will be sworn in later this month. I've edited the fact box to reflect this, but I don't know how/if it can mention he will become President of Romania soonish.

2189:

I could find no source to back this statement up, and I also noticed that it's been tagged as original research since May 2007. If nobody has a reasonable objection, I would suggest to either remove the (otherwise irrelevant to Basescu) statement or replace it with something like:

1269:

otherwise) then I guess that should be credited to him. It is true that the numbers cited in the article are coming from his own Office, but that is explicitly said in the article, and the editor states, somewhere in discussion above, that there are no other sources available.--

1903:

from polls it dosen't look like there's any chance he'd be removed legally through a referendum as he has like 80% support, but there are some indication that the parties behind it are trying to find loopholes in the constitution or if needed do some emergency tinkering to it.

2523:

Last but not least, I want to tell that I am not that interested in this article as much as to search and bring content (I find it very difficult to write biographies in general, it's not my style), hence by no mean I am a party (I was simply interested in stylistic edits).

2307:

strike me as being more about pushing a pro-Băsescu point of view than improving the article. But I leave it to someone who is more actively working on the article to make the call, and especially to view them in the context of any other recent activity on the article. -

2892:

weight as the only issue there. But editing the bio during a campaign is not the crime you make it, especially when the article could use work in covering said campaign... Since you seem a have worked on this article for while, why don't you add something to it?

2186:"Although the reasons for this sudden withdrawal were not completely clear, from Stolojan's declarations and answers the press inferred that he might have been subject to blackmail in regards to psychological treatment that he had undergone 15 years prior." 2868:? I pointed you to the Iliescu article because it seemed the obvious one to use for comparison with another (former) president of Romania that wasn't loved by a certain part of the media (different from the part that doesn't like Basescu), and certainly 865:"...and that a previous article regarding MP's immunity over matters regarding their votes or statements made while holding office." Incomprehensible. No principle verb. Can someone have a look at this in context and work out what it means to say? -- 1687:

not become bigger (articles would step all over each other, and we would be back to the general feel of Romanian wikipedia articles being conceived for people in 5th grade, who want to know who was "master" of Romania, not what office they held).

1906:

Anyway should the suspension be overturned a new impeachment is unlikely as the parliment is required to give a vote of confidence to his new governemnt (an implicit recognition of his supporters) or the president has the right to disolve it.

1284:. I added more than one refference to some statements, but please let all of them, as they can be used for further reading. Especially when saying that Basescu was condemned by almost all Romanian society, more than one refference is needed. 648: 2375:

A separate criticism article would be a POVFORK and is discouraged by WP guidelines. I don't know if 20% is a good target (the man after all is quite criticized in Romanian media), but yes, the section should be shortened and thoroughly

3025:. Unfortunately the above mentioned editor has done changes inconsistently, resulting in the same material being in two places. Therefore, as I said I am reverting to that earlier version which simply sends the reader to the article 4233: 1169:

The apartment was worth on the free market between 250.000 and 300.000. If you can find some other sources with a value of 60000 for that house, pleae tell me. I think you should provide some facts that the numbers are not real.

836:

was the validation of the election results by the Constitutional Court, according to article 82, paragraph one. Paragraph two says that he will then be swron in before the reunited houses of Parliament. That hasn't happened yet.

1852:

By the way, what happened to all the references from the article? Up to a few hours ago, there used to be a dozen numbered refs, plus 7 others; now there are none. Is there a reason for such a massive deletion of references?

1690:

The other would-be issue is about dividing the lists and template of Presidents, which is also a bad idea (it would result in minuscule inane articles, without hope of growing, and without sufficient context that would not be a

4205: 1344:

It is almost impossible to say anything confidently about "most of civil society". Any statement like this would have to be attributed to who made it. This sort of thing does not belong in Knowledge (XXG)'s narrative voice. -

1052:

A sailor is a member of the crew of a ship or boat. The term may comprise anyone from an admiral in the navy to a person who goes out yachting at weekends as a hobby. A sailor is also specifically an enlisted member of a naval

3306:

why isn't this page protected? wtf he's a freakin president. i'll vandalize it all over town unless u protect freakin rascist romanians, not gypsies!!! only name issimliar and i'm tired of everyonethinking they are wtf wtf

1077:

An officer is different from a sailor; an officer must go through higher education (university) while a sailor doesn't. There's no connection between these two professions, apart from both being supposed to work on a ship.

860:"As a navy officer and captain..." "Captain" in English can have several meanings; among other things, it is a military rank, but I suspect that what is meant hers is "ship's captain", commander of a ship. Is that correct? 1005:

I couldn't find any of Vier Photen's reports on stray dogs in Bucharest (Vier Photen was the animal-protection NGO that brought Bucharest's stray dogs to western attention and that opposed Basescu's plans the strongest.)

1937:. The term of the President ends in the following situations: end of the term (not reelected or last term), resignation, or dismissal. Currently we are not in either of this situations, Băsescu being still in office. 2557:

Japanese tourist was killed by a stray dog." (There were hundreds of cases of children mutilated by pack of dogs, but this case of the Japanese tourist got more attention because it actually resulted in human death).

2065:

decide what exactly will happen in a constitutional void, but rather up to the constitutional court. Since the constitutional court has issued a decision already, I will modify the said statements and reference it.

1586:(their different title notwithstanding) count Parhon, Groza, Maurer, Stoica. So why does the first counting method gain precedence, and why, dare I ask, didn't 89.137.36.86 fill in ordinals for the other presidents? 1296:

Let's give Mr Basescu the credit he deserves. I believe he is trying to propose a sollution to satisfy everybody. He knows very well, being a top politician, that this is impossible. He will never convince the local

668: 3403:; before publishing it, the decision has to be presented to the Houses of Parliament, in a joint session. That session is called for Monday, 27 August 2012. So, Basescu is still "Suspended President of Romania". -- 4407: 3497:

As one can see, there are a lot of variables to this procedure. So, it might be 27 August 2012 somewhere in Australia or New Zealand, but nobody knows what is going to happen once the sun rises for 27 August 2012

195: 3097:

Speaking of criticism in general, I find that too much space (4 paragraphs) are allotted to this brouhaha. I think one paragraph should suffice to cover that. We don't need full a paragraph inline quotation from

2422:

I'll look into your edits later. You don't have to agree with me, you have to correctly represent the sources. Although it may sound like newspeak, "Verifiability, not truth" is a core Knowledge (XXG) precept.

2625:

glass (the article is called "Basescu drank and drove"), Dc76 significantly changed this to "holding" a glass (even if the newspaper was actually considered at the time one of the few openly pro-Basescu ones)

3218:

need to stop edit warring. Băsescu was declared the winner by Romanian electoral authorities. It's also true that opposition has 48hrs to challenge those results to the Supreme Court, if I recall correctly.

988:

reduction (...) in numbers of ownerless dogs (...) roaming freely among the streets of the city from 1,500,000 in 2000 to 25,000 in 2004 and thus in the number of dog bite injuries from 1500/day to under

318: 223: 4437: 3333:

As a POV tag was applied yesterday on this article, it would be nice for the user who did it to explain his decision in a proper way (i.e. in more than the 200 characters allowed by the summary box).

1301:, and those we call, in the manner of Daniel Cohn-Bendit, "vielles crapules staliniennes", that the regime in which they and their relatives thrived was one of abject crimes and widespread wickedness 323: 4402: 1019:, why do you want to say that his profession was "sailor" rather than "Merchant Marine Officer"? The latter seems more precise and in his case correct. He certainly was not an Ordinary Seaman. -- 890:

He was the president of the National Romanian Party of Transylvania (which later won the election of Greater Romania), he lead the Memorandum movement and he was the president of the Assembly of

4234:

http://www.gandul.info/news/basescu-am-un-regret-profund-ca-am-spus-public-ce-gandesc-in-legatura-cu-regele-mihai-cum-i-a-caracterizat-pe-iliescu-ceausescu-ciorbea-si-emil-constantinescu-9896754

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The "drinking problems" section is exactly the opposite of what should be found on wikipedia, it's a political game, and it serves a clear propagandist role. :) Thus, I'm removing it right now.

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Can someone sort out the facts of this, preferably with citations and exact quotation of what (if anything) he said and what he was alleged to have said, and then get that into the article? --

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http://www.gandul.info/news/breaking-news-traian-basescu-pumn-in-plina-figura-18-secunde-video-il-prezinta-pe-seful-statului-lovind-un-copil-cum-raspunde-presedintele-poate-m-a-injurat-5135884

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Also, in fairness, the last quotation from the interview should be completed; asked if the president is trying to trick the civil society by creating the commission, Tismaneanu answered:

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As the person who was accused by various with supporting Băsescu (even though I don't go on wikipedia to discuss my voting preferences), I have to say that there is, generally speaking,

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was breaking the law (A quick look at the law would prove them right, anyway, but quoting the law directly would be OR, so we'll stay to attributing journalist from reliable newspapers)

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In that context, given that Moldova is viewed as an independent state, it sounds rather weird that an attempt to unify countries politically is an improvement of relations, doesn't it?

4432: 2610:. This is a high level as an accusations can get. Even if Tariceanu would have been an opposition politician, his accusations may still have been necessary... but these two guys were 2193:"Although Stolojan claimed to have withdrawn because of health concerns, Băsescu denounced to the press that the reason behind this decision was blackmail from political opponents." ( 1559:

By the way, I raised this some time ago as an objection to our policies on always favoring "free use" over "fair use" of images. Similar issues have arise even with UK politicians. -

1429:, Bucharest main railroad station. This success increased his popularity and helped him winning Bucharest Major ellections. Unfortunately I don't have any refference; I just remember. 1777:, and it says Antonescu was head of state. However, the article is not that bright, because it mixes Antonescu's (official?) title with Ceausescu's propaganda "iubitul conducator". 709: 3001: 934:

to be of the same family, but I bet a bit of research would clarify the relationship. I don't think he claims to be a descendant, just a relative, so it may be a little tricky. --

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I agree. The Constitutional Court will examine the complaint of the challenger's party in the next days. However, this information was not available at the time of the edit war.

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prefer to revert, go ahead, it is on your conscience and record. I will withdraw from editing this article at that point, because IMHO you are preventing people from working.

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and had access to information means not accessible to the usual politician... as long as each accusation is attributed, mentioning them is not only OK, but even necessary.

734: 2326:"Băsescu has tried to improve Romania's relations with Moldova... Furthermore, he has expressed several times his belief in the future unification of the two countries". 954:

to deal with a lot of bureaucracy to find a simple land deed from 1939, and this is considered standard practice. One could try... But this will require lots of patience.

4309: 4305: 4291: 4105: 4101: 4087: 3892: 3888: 3874: 3742: 3738: 3724: 3604: 3600: 3586: 2840:? How would you each propose to improve this article? Can you each wait for outside comment before making your preferred changes and instead discuss them here first? 1289:

official commission - as your text is mentioning. Also, another source of controversy was that he expressed doubts that the comunist regime is condemnable as a whole.

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Although I consider myself a long-time editor who knows to some extent WP policies, I did take another look at the links you just provided. Thank you for reminding.

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the "Criticism" section is larger than the rest of the article. I have never seen a BLP with such proportions, not even GWB can come close. :) I see two solutions:

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It's been added that he was a Career Officer in the Romanian Navy. That is not true, he never served in the Navy, he was an officer of the Romanian Merchant Marine.

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Dpotop and Biru, I urge you to give this moire attention. The ultimate relevancy of the article and template for the outside reader would be establishing who the

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seem to introduce some relevant material, they also seem to be very POV (pro-Băsescu). I've fixed the English. I hope someone else will deal with the POV. --

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It's not only on Base (Geoana is targeted, too), but the paragraph on Base is pretty factual, and I'm sure you can find other sources on the matter, too:

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Parhon. I've been avoiding proposing this earlier, as Niculi seems to be a non-entity and will likely remain a redlink for long (if not a pitiful stub).

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Having said that, one should either: (1) rename the template to "Republican Heads of State of Romania", only if, upon reflection, that has proven to be

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The content of the article before the above editor whitewashed it was certainly not a coatrack, every accusation being attributed to a reliable source:

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1500bites/day*365=547,500 bites a year. I can suppose that 1500bites/day lasted a year as otherwise it wouldn't be a good statistic. But, according to

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https://web.archive.org/web/20091114053300/http://prezidentiale.evz.ro/emain/articolul/875388/Basescu-ii-ironizeaza-pe-Badea-Gadea-si-omul-cu-laptopul

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I think too much emphasis is put on that in the lead (1 full para), including the full procedure and poll numbers. I'd leave one or two sentences.

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http://web.archive.org/web/20110926145244/http://www.mediafax.ro/social/basescu-am-vazut-deja-scena-demontata-pe-un-calculator-video-5136227tml

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Obviously, the edit of this article would be controversial, but can we, please, decide which version is to stay during the discussion process?

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According to the poll results from today's referendum ( May 19 ), President Traian Basescu will continue his mandate. The people wanted him !

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https://web.archive.org/20070127024901/http://english.hotnews.ro:80/Romanian-President-in-open-conflict-with-prime-minister-articol_44137.htm

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Yeah, that needs to be trimmed down. Taking half of the controversies section is overboard, considering it was a relatively minor incident.

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Rather, impeachment can be invoked in more mundane circumstances, pertaining to the conduct of a government official while in office. See

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them as their pets and protested). The authorities were also accused of just moving the dogs from the center to the outskirts. After this

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However, the name is not correct imo. Drinking Problems sugests alcoholism, and there is no basis for that. Something along the lines of

146:, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Knowledge (XXG)'s articles about people. All interested editors are invited to 4422: 4397: 3844: 3568: 2247: 1441:"He was re-elected president for a second 5-year term in 2009, amidst allegations of electoral fraud that were dismissed by the courts 1263: 155: 4373: 844:, but I don't remember hearing anything on his resignation, or the appointment of a provisional (or whatever the term may be) Mayor. 761: 746: 260: 218: 142: 100: 4452: 4287:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

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When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

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second: this is only basescu's claim (although not even this is for sure), not a proved fact third: it seems quite irrelevant to me

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So, the Supreme Court "reinstated" him, but he is still "suspended"? Could someone please clarify? -- 11:08, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

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controversy: A dispute, especially a public one, between sides holding opposing views. (please, don't ask me what the sides are)

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has reverted to an earlier version, after which he edited a bit. I re-done his edits (except when he erased sourced material) in

1832: 1362:. "Civil society" is how BBC referes to a group of near 40 non-governmental organisations and more than 400 VIP of civil society. 3070:, and considering that one other editor, Anonimu supports inclusion, with nobody besides Dc76 objecting, I consider any further 1095:

The following was recently anonymously removed with the summary "Not correct. Mr. Basescu's remarks were taken out of context":

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removals NPOV and consensus violations and shall revert any such removal by pointing you to this talk page. We can discuss the

2665:, I am withdrawing from editing this article until there is proper intervention from more people. I have had enough. Good buy! 1986: 1596:

1.Gheorghe Gheorghiu Dej, 2.Ceausescu, 3.Iliescu, 4.Constantinescu and 5.Basescu. Fifth. And I'm not Romanian and I know this!

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which is quite different! 2. He is still suspended, because the Court decision takes effect the moment it is published in the

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V-as ruga daca aveti timp sa o cititi integral. cu tot respectul, lucaci dorin gura humorului, sv.

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True, but what I said was that he only claims to have this descendency, I don't know about real proofs of it. Do you have any?

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Franamax, I'll refrain form editing on this article for a while. I'm tired of this silly discussion questioning my motives.

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The "apartment affair", where among other things Anonimu puts in the interpretation of the law by one particular journalist.

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If nobody else reads this discussion by then, I'll revert to the sourced and more neutral version of the article tonight.

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I am reluctantly reverting to an earlier version because there is no reaction to the BLP violations note I put priorly.

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He did reduce the number of dogs, but I am not very sure about the estimations... We would need a citation for these.

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Once it is confirmed by the constitutional office, can someone with talent for writing update the main article ? Tnx.

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I don't think that we can speak of an "impeachment" of President Băsescu (on April 19, 2007). This word (in Romanian

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is this supposed to be in an encyclopedia? firstly, gheorghe pop de basesti is completely anonymous, even in romania

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he would be tenth: Council, Parhon, Groza, Maurer, Dej, Stoica, Ceauşescu, Iliescu, Constantinescu, Băsescu. Right?

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it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format.

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that communism was condemned as a criminal regime by Romanian people during the anti-communist revolution." Be OK?

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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the

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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the

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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the

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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the

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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the

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His performance as Bucharest mayor was considered by many to be the best since the Bucharest earthquake in 1977

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http://www.gandul.info/news/protestul-lui-cristian-tudor-popescu-pancarta-pe-care-scrie-gazetar-gaozar-4145792

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D, that template would, again, be grossly illegitimate. Why fuse it, when you can do as they seem to like it

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But hey, don't let me stop you deleting stuff that you don't agree and don't care to document yourself about.

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Someone should translate this article from an Romanian mainstream newspaper and include it in this article.

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Is he in fact 5th? That's if you count Ceauşescu, Iliescu, Constantinescu, Iliescu, Constantinescu. But you

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Why is it that ALL wikipedia articles on Romanian postcommunist presidents depicts them with US presidents?

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http://prezidentiale.evz.ro/emain/articolul/875388/Basescu-ii-ironizeaza-pe-Badea-Gadea-si-omul-cu-laptopul

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is definitely closer to native pronunciation than , but equally unstressed syllables is a close second; my

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Could you please accept that you are not allowed to express political sympathies in wikipedia postings ?

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Where are you getting results from these mayoral elections? It would like to get hold of the full results.

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For very similar reasons, a lot of photos of entertainers show them performing on U.S. military bases. -

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http://www.mediafax.ro/social/basescu-am-vazut-deja-scena-demontata-pe-un-calculator-video-5136227tml

3215: 2304: 2007: 1934: 1876: 1455: 42:. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to 2980: 2051: 1978: 1893:

Add a third person to the list of English-only people who wants to know about these statements :-)

829:, the President holds office until the newly elected one is sworn in (article 83, third paragraph). 559: 63: 3569:

http://english.hotnews.ro/Romanian-President-in-open-conflict-with-prime-minister-articol_44137.htm

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that the lead now needs further rewriting to summarize the article instead of being "latest news".

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articles today, and was rather unpleasantly surprised by their poor quality. The sad fact is that

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