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about the difference. In a typical New York deli, for example, a customer can request a tuna salad sandwich, which is made from a bin of tuna salad, or a tuna fish sandwich (individual can), which is made from a freshly opened individual serving sized can of tuna. When the latter is prepared, it is not mixed into what might be described as a salad but simply placed on the bread or roll and spread out a bit. It's applied sort of like any other lunch meat and gets lettuce, tomato, mayo, etc. I'm not sure what a hunk of tuna on a roll might be called. Maybe that would be a tuna sandwich? Maybe "tuna fish" implies the meat is canned and chunk style? --
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argument is also superficial and poor factually. "Codfish" is actually the worst example you could have led with because that's a very common name that began in ENGLAND from earlier centuries to distinguish it from "cod" (as in "codpiece"), similarly to "swordfish". But in general saying it's bad because it's redundant has no linguistic merit. We say "grapefruit" and "walnut" and "strawberry", etc. We also say "Rock of
Gibraltar", "East Timor", "Greenwich Village", "Sahara Desert" and even "White Album". Don't extrapolate it to "chicken meat sandwich" because that has no basis and is a perfect
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guacamole, olives. All need some kind of sources (the pictures don't obviously), just cause someone might decide it's good with mangoes in
Thailand doesn't mean that its a common recipe, or that Thai people eat it with mangoes. I would imagine most are plain, at least here in Canada, most fast food ones (sold in plastic triangle boxes) have at most lettuce, also the standard if you get one at a coffee shop or SubWay, not that I haven't gotten them to put jalapeno's, just takes more work convincing them your not insane.
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ambiguous (at least, no evidence was presented showing it in use for other kinds of tuna-based sandwiches), and it remains in wide use. Stepping out of my closer role, I suggest knowledgeable editors consider expanding the article to include different types of tuna sandwiches, with the version using tuna salad included as one variant, as we currently lack coverage on the wider category (assuming sources exist). In that case, a rename may well be appropriate. But that's beyond the scope of the current RM.
1207:. Warning: anecdata used on determining common name, but I have never heard of a "tuna sandwich" and I would think it means "tuna steak" and be pieces of pink filet, rather than what this article is about which is a sandwich made from the contents of a can/tin of tuna which I exclusively know of and have heard of as solely "tuna fish" and never "tuna". Do we need separate articles for these separate things or, are they the same thing and there is a compromise word to be found like elevator/lift?
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1275:" mean one sort of tuna as opposed to another sort of tuna? That's nonsensical. It may be American idiom, but it certainly ain't logical. "Care to explain?" See В²C's post above. Also note that I was merely answering your question as to whether they were the same thing and pointing out that while "tuna fish sandwich" may be common in America, it is not normal usage elsewhere, as has already been pointed out several times on this talkpage. --
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1493:. "Filet of tuna on a sandwich" is one of the many "hits" that Born2Cycle used to prove that "tuna sandwich" was more popular than "tuna fish sandwich" a) under the mistaken belief that that was the argument, and b) despite actually proving the point that to many English-speakers the two items are different and his/her "hits" included recipes such as
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1353:... I have expressed my opinion above based on the ngram. The rest is just a bit of fun. So don't take yourself and your "tuna fish" so bloody seriously! Incidentally, I really don't much care what the article's called given that even the smell of tuna makes me feel bilious and the thought of eating it just makes me question people's sanity! --
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called a "tuna fish sandwich". You also comment that you want "English to make some sense" which is another way of assumedly couching the redundancy argument, which again has no merit for language development or history in
English. Have you never heard or said a "chai tea", "cheese quesadilla", "rice
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per JesseRafe. I'm not convinced that the ngrams result that B2C cites means what he thinks. To me, a "tuna sandwich" would be a continuous slab of the same tuna, or more generally something you'd get at a restaurant, and a "tuna fish" sandwich is the horrible cheap ground-up fishburger stuff from
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That's a willfully obtuse argument because people on this talk page have made it abundantly clear that to those who make a distinction, "tuna fish" is distinct from "tuna" as the latter is for the ways steak, sushi and sashimi are prepared/served from the fish and is never from a can. The redundancy
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the type of sandwich for which this article is about, for instance using whole-flesh or steak/filet of tuna. Which supports the contention that many in the US distinguish the two because these recipes are called "tuna sandwich" and not "tuna fish sandwiches" on purpose. Also, the NYT is not a metric
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In Canada, the term "tuna fish" does not exist, and sounds very strange. All tuna are fish, so it's redundant. It's like saying "chicken fowl". I don't know about regional differences within the United States, but it is widely believed in Canada that "tuna fish" is a uniquely
American phrase. I have
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Calling it a tuna fish sandwich is grammatically incorrect and an
Americanism. All over the world it's called a tuna mayo sandwich or a tuna and cucumber sandwich. This leads to my second point I have never once seen this sandwich served with celery? Cucumber is the most common ingredient after the
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No, there are many more terrible articles. "Tuna fish sandwich" may be an
Americanism, but it has nothing to do with grammar. "All over the world" it can't really be called "tuna mayo sandwich", because in most of those places they probably don't speak English as their first language. As for "tuna
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Whether something is
American or not should not be an issue. "Truck" and "elevator" are also "American", and guess what, they're also English because "American" isn't a language. There are probably millions of people more who call it "tuna fish" than live in all of the UK so I don't understand the
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I am even more flummoxed than ever by your response that "I was merely answering your question as to whether they were the same thing" because never have I asked such a question. I asked whether you could explain why you were intentionally and flagrantly misrepresenting my argument into '"tuna" is
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There are a few hints online that there might be regional differences, presumably within the US, over what a tuna fish sandwich is called. Some call it a tuna salad sandwich instead, or just a tuna sandwich. I'm not so sure they are all the same kind of sandwich or that there is anything regional
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Eating one right now, no cucumber. Sounds good though, personally I like chopped celery and a piece of lettuce, maybe some tomato and a slice of cheese, but not at home when I make it myself, too much effort for a practically effortless meal. Seem to be many variations, such as in the pictures,
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We have some interesting evidence here. While the phrase "tuna sandwich" does seem to be more widely used now, it seems that many uses of the phrase are not for the topic of this article (ie, a sandwich using tuna salad, as opposed to other kinds of tuna). The present phrase appears to be less
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says that all national varieties of
English are acceptable in article titles. The article seems to have used the "tuna fish" variant since its creation in 2007, and I don't really see a huge reason to change this established precedent. If it helps Americans and doesn't particularly confuse
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Could you be missing the point any more? Nowhere did I make the claim that is common usage elsewhere, stop making these logical fallacies. You also seem to be under the woefully mistaken impression of how language works: people didn't sit down and decide to call something something, but it
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said it was. I really think you need to reread posts before you go off on one! You seem to have missed my point that "tuna fish is a specific type of tuna" (to quote you) only in
America. Everywhere else we just say tuna. Which is of course a fish. So doesn't need to be called tuna
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No, they're exactly the same thing. In
Britain we'd never say "tuna fish" (any more than we'd say "cod fish", "haddock fish" or "mackerel fish", because the second word is utterly unnecessary - you don't have a "chicken meat sandwich" either, do you?), but putting that aside due to
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a supermarket aisle. The prevalence of the "tuna sandwich" has greatly increased since the 80s as more and more sushi / fish places have started offering this, which is why the ngrams has gone up for it. But the old-style "cheap" ground tuna is still a tuna fish sandwich.
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Good grief, you're a very serious person! We're talking about a flaming sandwich! It really doesn't matter! You said: "Do we need separate articles for these separate things or, are they the same thing and there is a compromise word to be found like elevator/lift?" So
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Agreed, "tuna fish" is an American idiom, this website is in English, not a specific branch or dialect of English, it should therefor be the blandest sort and mention the regional variations in names in article. Pretty sure thats even policy, if I cared to look.
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It's a big grammatical pet peeve for a lot of people, since the word "fish" is totally redundant. I vote that it be removed. I attempted to move the article to "tuna sandwich," but was blocked. It's embarrassing to see "tuna sandwich" redirect to "Tuna fish
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in the UK people find it funny that americans call it Tuna fish when there are no other kinds of Tuna, its a bit like saying Cow Mammal or Crab Crustacean. This sandwich is always called a tuna mayo sandwhich but this isn't mentioned in the
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pilaf", or "shrimp scampi"? It's a natural process and it occurs in every language. Sometimes things become redundant, but it's not up to encyclopedia writers to "correct" this "problem", but only to state/describe what occurs.
1245:. Please state your position without resorting to logical fallacies. Also there is no contention that "tuna" is more common in the US than "tuna fish" for the meat from the can presented in this talk page. Care to explain?
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I enjoy cucumber with my tuna for luncheon as well, why would he need a reference for that? I doubt there would be a scientific peer reviewed study into tuna and cucumber. If there was it would be one word "delicious".
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Personally as a Canadian I prefer Tuna Fish Salad Sandwich, as you know what you're getting - a salad like chicken salad, but made with tuna fish. Presumably a Tuna Sandwich would be made with Tuna Fish steak.
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You are right, this is a terrible entry. There is some stuck up American that keeps reverting it. The term “tuna fish” is only used by a few Americans so the wikipedia entry has to follow that? Brutal.
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Why do you keep saying fish after tuna? Tuna salad sandwich, a salad like chicken salad, but made with tuna. It’s not “chicken bird salad”. Presumably a tuna sandwich would be made with tuna steak.
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Upgrade to normal oppose. Bodhi Peace's comment below cuts at usual presumptions that nom did the research. "Let's help English make more sense?" That is not how Knowledge (XXG) works.
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Citing StarKist and sentences like "Large chain sub shops such as Subway, Quiznos, and Blimpie often feature tuna subs as a daily deal or featured sub" make it sound like and advertisement.
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which doesn't mark it as archaic. The parallel is not there, so don't miscategorize my arguments further: codfish/cod are alternate names, whereas "tuna fish" is a specific type of "tuna".
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Tune fish sandwich, rather than tuna sandwich, is a very specific colloquialism. Google gives 5 times more hits for "tuna sandwich" than "tuna fish sandwich". This page should be moved.
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a word or lexical chunk was devised to mean something, it either does or it doesn't and we report on what is actually used. There's obvious evidence that "tuna fish"
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I have never seen filet of tuna on a sandwich. Even the can doesn't say "tuna fish". It's time to do away with this nonsense. Let's help English make some sense.
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Let's all be tolerant of the Americanism "tuna fish sandwich". I've known and chuckled about it for decades, but there's no reason to be insulting over a little
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In the UK, prepacked 'tuna' sandwiches (no mention of 'fish') are often found with cucumber. On the other hand, I've never found celery in a tuna sandwich.
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Has "codfish" been used in Britain in the past? Yes. Is it used now? No. Do we still live in the past? No. So no, it's not a poor example at all, since no
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nationality point you are trying to make as if "Americans who make a distinction" matters whether or not "anyone" makes a distinction.
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who make a distinction"! The rest of us don't. Since tuna is clearly a fish in whatever form it comes, why on earth would "tuna
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even seen a standup comedy routine about this: "I ordered tuna, and they gave me the tuna horse! I wanted the tuna fish!" --
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Don’t be pedantic, no other culture uses their word for fish after their word for tuna regardless of their native tongue.
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related articles on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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am somewhat flummoxed as to your response that you never asked whether they were the same thing. Er, yes you did! Also,
1138:. Interesting. Per Google Books ngrams they were evenly used through 1980, then usage for "tuna sandwich" skyrocketed
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why no mention of Cucumber? 90% of tuna sandwiches in the UK are served with sliced cucumber
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Celery in a tuna salad sandwich is very common in the US. Here are some links to examples:
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Tuna “fish” sandwich is definitely an americanism, not even used in the majority there.
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speaking in the present tense). "Those that make a distinction" presumably means "
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where it simply says "lift" in the opening sentence as this article already does.
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http://english.stackexchange.com/questions/19628/why-do-americans-say-tuna-fish
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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a
1226:, it appears from the above that "tuna" is more common in the USA as well. --
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Literally 95% of tuna sandwiches include cucumber it's not a niche concoction
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An editor has reviewed this edit and fixed any errors that were found.
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Why does the section on ingredients not point out that, just how
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fish"--well, you are welcome to start a renaming discussion.
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tuna itself but this is completely omitted from the article.
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Got a reliable source that says that? If so, add it.
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British person would say "codfish" (and I believe I
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1344:never said you said it was common usage elsewhere.
1141:. On nytimes.com I get 184 for "tuna fish sandwich"
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619:sandwich."--
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366:Bring these
349:
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340:Bring these
324:Ham and eggs
297:
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103:WikiProjects
70:
42:
1534:move review
1412:WP:TITLEVAR
1390:WP:TITLEVAR
1313:as well as
1055:move review
981:Sourcecheck
816:—Preceding
781:ACEOREVIVED
582:tunny flesh
447:transcluded
431:. List any
416:select here
384:Burger King
153:Food portal
93:Start-class
1622:Categories
1355:Necrothesp
1277:Necrothesp
1228:Necrothesp
1192:Necrothesp
1069:Cúchullain
866:Potentatus
32:October 21
1504:JesseRafe
1382:WP:ENGVAR
1323:JesseRafe
1269:Americans
1247:JesseRafe
1224:WP:ENGVAR
1209:JesseRafe
1173:JesseRafe
1011:this tool
1004:this tool
714:Gwen Gale
590:Gwen Gale
586:tuna fish
545:Lame Name
543:as food.
537:tuna fish
535:gives...
511:Gwen Gale
401:WP:Trivia
328:Soy sauce
296:status:
1457:SnowFire
1439:SnowFire
1416:Reidgreg
1395:Reidgreg
1386:WP:TROUT
1304:Elevator
1113:Relisted
1064:No move.
1017:Cheers.—
938:cbignore
818:unsigned
777:cucumber
765:cucumber
684:sandwich
506:article.
410:Add the
378:status:
352:status:
63:deletion
28:deletion
1491:Comment
1474:Comment
1378:Comment
1188:Support
1164:Comment
1132:Support
1117:Jenks24
1027::Online
967:checked
932:my edit
840:Peridon
805:Windows
708:history
584:--: -->
233:history
206:on the
1583:Drmies
1434:Oppose
1408:Oppose
1261:modern
1205:Oppose
975:failed
946:nobots
797:Fences
336:Yogurt
99:scale.
801:&
773:cress
578:flesh
541:tunny
380:Apple
362:Sugar
332:Sushi
316:Drink
312:Curry
308:Bread
243:purge
238:watch
170:drink
1607:talk
1587:talk
1570:talk
1554:talk
1508:talk
1482:talk
1461:talk
1443:talk
1431:Weak
1420:talk
1410:per
1399:talk
1359:talk
1351:fish
1327:talk
1296:does
1281:talk
1273:fish
1251:talk
1232:talk
1213:talk
1196:talk
1177:talk
1134:per
1121:talk
1108:talk
1099:and
971:true
899:talk
885:talk
870:talk
864:. --
844:talk
826:talk
785:talk
753:talk
737:talk
718:talk
664:talk
649:talk
625:talk
594:talk
574:fish
549:talk
531:The
515:talk
497:talk
481:talk
403:and
388:Fish
354:Beer
320:Food
304:Beef
253:here
228:edit
198:High
168:and
166:food
71:keep
69:was
43:Keep
41:was
35:2007
1526:.
1499:not
1478:Bod
1265:was
1168:not
1153:В²C
1149:not
1104:Bod
985:).
973:or
958:to
533:OED
477:Pat
30:on
1624::
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1115:.
1095:–
1089:→
1047:.
983:}}
979:{{
944:{{
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936:{{
901:)
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697:VG
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551:)
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386:,
382:,
376:FA
372:GA
360:,
356:,
350:FA
346:GA
334:,
330:,
326:,
322:,
318:,
314:,
310:,
306:,
294:GA
280::
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1119:(
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662:(
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418:.
396:.
290:B
210:.
105::
73:.
45:.
Text is available under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License. Additional terms may apply.
