1582:, which is very trusted, not HRWF, not CESNUR and not the Unification Church, regardless what anticult agenda think about it. I do see the very same tactics on Azeri towards Armeni, ruSSia against JhW, or all around the world - same steps to dishonest sources or opponents by the spread of fog, whataboutism, or other steps against religious freedom, the right assured as the Basic human right - and this should not be performed on Knowledge (XXG). Touching on how to extend that part about Freedom of religion in Japan - other reports from the U.S. Department of State from different years should be taken there, not just the latest. The history is important to describe, as it was quite different. For example, those speaking of the Toru Goto case, etc. Hope it helps. But feel free to extend it yourself before I do, that article is not my focus just now. Australia.
1969:. As I see, the "Germany" part is included in the article under "Criticism". Please keep in mind and look at everything in my queue, I think a "Harassment and Discrimination" paragraph would be needed. In particular, reliable sources from beyond the Iron Curtain cases specifically say that the Church was "persecuted", so there is no question as to what the paragraph should be called. I was very surprised how many cases came up when I tried to get into it. We keep looking at Japanese hijacks that look huge as this practice looks common there. I have selected the most reliable sources from the ones I had, so I hope that no pointless discussion will be repeated. Thank you in advance for your voluntary action. --
1825:". So yes, possibly the name of the section could be "Persecution and discrimination" as this one german case is probably more discrimination than persecution. But the Russian case which I do have prepared when ECHR stated the church believer was kept in inhuman conditions fulfilled the definition of persecution. Same with the sources I used in JHW articles, some are not "persecution" per se, and in some, the source did not state it is persecution, but still it is by definition. So question is, how would you name the paragraph I'm trying to create if you look at the sources in my sandbox? I do finish here unless there is more will to cooperate. --
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the way a summary of other court cases, so it would be a question if it is a primary or secondary source as it sums acts of sides described elsewhere and decisions of other courts. For the decision of ECHR is it a primary one, for the description of what happened it is a secondary source already. Additionally, most ECHR decisions have a Press release, which is a secondary source. The only conflict here is this pointless discussion, as there was no issue to add ECHR court cases to
Jehovah's Witness articles, but there is an issue here, so I can just wonder WHY? So the discussion with you leads to nowhere again, so I would not repeat that. --
2258:⢠Revocation of religious corporation status by the Japanese government - On October 12, 2023, Japan's Ministry of Education announced plans to dissolve the Unification Church under Article 81 of the Religious Juridical Person Law, citing deviations from legitimate religious practices. This is the first such action against a religious organization without a criminal conviction. The church intends to contest the order legally. As of March 7, 2024, the government has also increased monitoring of the church's assets under a new law aimed at addressing unfair solicitation practices.
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1703:. So, it touches a whole church in the area, and that is why it belongs here, not in the SMM article. If this is necessary to be in the text, I can add it, but as there would be many cases, I do prefer to keep it short. Additionally, we should not evaluate, what is "enough" important, but reliable sources do. This case has so many sources, that it could have a separate article. But this would be an overkill for now and my time is limited.--
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Japan are very specific for the country, not visible anywhere else. For example, abductions and forced deprogramming in the 21st century... Perhaps, UC itself is specific in Japan and lot of stuff could be described, but would be not valid for the main UC article. But if we think about the "In Japan (1970â2023)" which is part of the "Criticism" only, this is not enough for a whole UC article. So I propose to 1) write a
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2261:⢠Civil lawsuits against Japanese critics and government - The Unification Church and its affiliates filed lawsuits against Japanese media, lawyers, journalists, and ex-members discussing its fundraising and recruitment. Legal actions increased after ties with Japanese politicians were revealed post-Abe's assassination. Critics allege these lawsuits are to silence opposition.
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2264:⢠Child adoption - The Unification Church in Japan was investigated for unauthorized child transfers between members' families since 2018. They reported 31 adoptions but deny acting as intermediaries. Following scrutiny, the church removed references to child adoption from its handbook in February 2023.
1925:
thank you for the effort, just now it is in the "Criticism" part. So just wonder what in the unlawful entry ban and systematic refusal to comply with the law in several years is a "Criticism", when nobody in the sources calls it a criticism. Hope there is a chance to restructuralize the article later
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Yes, I do agree. This part compared to other parts is too and it hurts balance. I was thinking, that if there exists a "UC in Japan" article, it would be a good place to put all the
Japanese persecution as well which I planned to write. In my opinion, both, the criticism and the persecution of UC in
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Yes, there are similar sources like for JHW. But I do not agree with you that naming some treatment as "persecution" is original research. Same, that sources should say, that it is persecution. That is not true. You can't say you can call something a car until sources say it is a car. There are some
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And once more to this case: The court concluded that the authorities' decision denied Mr. and Mrs. Moon entry into the
Schengen area and disruption of the practice of faith by their church's believers during several years was unlawful and unconstitutional based on presumptions and hearsay. What else
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Title. For me, personally, it doesnât contribute much to the article itself, and could have easily be conveyed much less offensively. Additionally, as an encyclopedia, I donât think we should resort to examples and instead focus on explaining it clear enough to not need one. I understand the need to
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Actually, we already have a section on Japan in this article "In Japan (1970â2023)" but it seems to me that the section on Japan is too big and should be rearranged. Did you want to suggest creating a new article called "Unification Church of Japan"? That seems like a good idea to me. What do other
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Ok, thank you for being specific and that there are no other critical comments. I'm a bit surprised, especially when I mentioned above (with absolutely no impact), that the behind the Iron
Curtain sources specifically say "Persecution", where people died in prison, even if I mention that this is in
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Do I see correctly a "resistance" to add it? To your argument: Important is, who was the parties in the court. UC against
Germany. The court did not evaluate the ban on just two persons. The court evaluated the religious freedom rights of all UC believers in the Schengen area, as religious meetings
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Thank you. As there are cases, where
Japanese courts decided in favor of kidnapped people, which I already have clear evidence about on my computer, there is a space to put such content, which is completely missing here. The opposite side, where just the anticult content is put into the article, is
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I agree as well, what's the point of using any example at all? I've even read the only citation of that claim (29)( Eileen Barker. "The
Unification Church: A Kaleidoscopic Introduction." Society Register 2, no. 2 (2018): 19â62.) , which cites the ENTIRE paper by the way, and nowhere does it mention
2252:⢠Spiritual sales - The Unification Church in Japan faced accusations of pressuring members into financial ruin through "spiritual sales." This led to 35,000 compensation claims and $ 206 million recovered. The church claims it has emphasized legal compliance and stopped these practices since 2009.
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Systematic prevention of adding any information esp. from your side under strange reasons, was, by the way, what grabbed my attention. Use of court decisions is OK, same as I did in
Jehovah's Witness with absolutely no issue. Looking at what primary and secondary sources are, I see that ECHR is by
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This sounds like a joke. Just a reminder: this is not a speech exercise. So how should we call it then, when people are forcibly abducted or expelled from the country, treated as criminals and UNHCR then stated it was a violation of their basic human rights...? So in the situation, when there are
2249:⢠Rebranding - In 1997, the Japanese Unification Church's request to change its name was rejected due to ongoing lawsuits. In 2015, the name change to "Family Federation for World Peace and Unification" was approved, though the approval process reportedly involved unusual reports.
2079:
What is "my side"? I do not edit the
Jehovah's Witness articles, my primary interest with the Unification Church is in their seafood operations and as far as I am aware the Jehovah's Witness' are not active in that space. Your edits there may also be an issue, I have not checked.
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1) Which cases are with just primary sources without any secondary ones? And 2) what exactly would be a violation of WP:SYNTH, means what exactly in parts France, Russia, United States is information mentioned by no source? Please tell me, I'm really curious. Be exact, name it.
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I do see the
Criticism part with mixture of regular criticism and anticult movement agenda. But I do not see any mention of persecution, which is self-evident it should exist and it should be described. Looks like just one side is present here. A few examples could be:
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already abundantly represented in the article. This leads me by the way to the necessity of checking anticult style of edits in this and the linked articles. Thanks for showing me the way in this direction. For example, on the linked article I do see some attempts to
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Do you mean everything besides that it was persecution? Because that seems to be the main point and that is OR, its not an accusation against you its just what it is. If you can't understand this pretty soon you won't be allowed to edit any article on wikipedia.
1777:, the source would actually need to say it. We don't have any problem finding sources which refer to the treatment of JW as persecution. If this really is similar then you can obviously present sources which refer to the treatment of UC as persecution.
1646:. Is here someone who can review and add it to the article? As persecution is very much connected with criticism, it should be just before or just after part of "Criticism". As this one is shorter so far, it should be before it. Thank you in advance. --
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the queue: I do think that it would be easy to prove the SYNTH accusation from your side as a completely invalid point of view. On the other hand, I disagree with such an "autistic" or better "literal" explanation of the source's usage. --
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If you do not want to help me, stop accusing me of WP-OR - as everything I put into the paragraph to be inserted in this article has a source according to the rules. So better I stop replying to you as this makes no sense to me.
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that they use the word among themselves, nor are any comparisons made within the paper like the one suggested. The only mention of the name being used by a member is apparently by Sun Myung Moon when he supposedly made it up.
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Forgive my inexperience with these rules, I'm somewhat new here. But I think you should rather remind Sameboat as he brings it in. I was just answering in case of that interconnected article. Will try to look for that from:
2255:⢠Assassination of Shinzo Abe - Shinzo Abe's assassination by Tetsuya Yamagami, who blamed Abe for his family's bankruptcy due to the Unification Church, led Japan's ruling party to cut ties with the church in August 2022.
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This isn't something I'm interested in but I took a quick look at your draft. I don't think that a German travel ban for two people counts as "persecution" against all members of this group. Maybe this belongs in
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In my opinion, this article is too long. As far as I remember, last year the section on "Organizations related to the Unification Church" was separated from this article into a new article precisely for this
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1661:... I'm just surprised, the initial call was replied to in less than one hour, so I was imagining a great cooperation, unfortunately, no one reacted to this message for more than one week. --
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Just to give you some context: the church's claims of deprogramming via "abductions and forced confinement" is accused of exaggeration or fabrication as has been already noted in
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I've reviewed the content and after some consideration and taking into account concerns over the above discussion, I have settled for a less ominous title for "Persecution".
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Japanese abductions and forced confinement of the UC believers by organized groups called deprogrammers - which are by the way very much connected with their critics.
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The SYNTH aspect would be calling it persecution when none of the sources do, you can't combine sources to say something which none of them individually say.
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That sounds good to me. You could just explain the concept and mention African Americans and Irish people as examples without saying the offensive words.
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There are other critical comments (for example the overuse of primary sources, such as court documents), this is just where we're stuck. Do you have any
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section added, title as it describes, Schengen ban for the founders, Schengen is for Europe so naturally I omitted the location from the title
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Totally agree, I found it jarring and completely unnecessary. The article has quite a few issues but due to protection can't be fixed
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There shouldn't be a topic for Unification Church of Japan? There seems to be largely than the United States, that as it's section.
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on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the ongoing discussions.
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2340:? Readers unfamiliar with French cults can't be expected to know that ADFI stands for and Googling it brings up an African NGO.
1744:(yes, multiple articles per country). This starts to be interesting and it sounds like a challenge. Thank you for motivation. --
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if you have a text you feel adds value and is informative to the article as a whole, aligns with WP policies, please share.
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There seemed to be a general consensus here on this, so I removed it and just mentioned it has been reappropriated by some.
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If there are no other suggestions for this summary, according to your previous suggestions, I will create a new article:
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I would still say no... It looks like trying to force a bunch of primary sources into an arrangement which violated
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I found the entire paragraph unnecessary to the article, but if someone disagrees, it could just be paraphrased.
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You could draft the section in your sandbox (with sources) and then ask for comment here when done.
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Just a reminder that talk pages are for discussing issues with an article, not general discussion.
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on 18 July 2018. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected page, please see
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1480:. I cannot add it by myself because of an lock. Is there someone who could help me with this? --
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It doesn't belong in a persecution section unless the reliable sources call it persecution.
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You say you don't agree its OR... and then you go and do a bunch of original analysis.
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to the "Persecution and discrimination" paragraph, when there will be more cases. --
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be precise, but I feel like it could have easily accomplished it in another way.
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Ok according to your suggestions below is my suggested summary of the section
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Union nationale des associations de dĂŠfense des familles et de l'individu
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This sentence, under the 'Popular terminologies' section makes no sense.
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summary here below or somewhere, and 2) move the extensive content to "
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I don't think you even need to do that. Just mention that some have
1642:@all - One part is ready to publish. Please find it in my Sandbox:
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I mean its just not persecution... And even if it was we can't do
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Knowledge (XXG) level-5 vital articles in Philosophy and religion
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The Unification church in Japan has faced several controversies
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thank you for your advice. Will try to prepare something. --
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The German ban on the Schengen area, later lifted as unjust.
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here on the Talk page for independent editors to review, or
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Knowledge (XXG) vital articles in Philosophy and religion
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Freedom of religion in Japan#Forced religious conversion
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I Added one more source which makes it crystal clear --
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and overall just wouldn't be due even if it didn't.
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822:: Participate in Japan-related deletion discussions.
632:. Current time in Japan:Â 17:10, September 21, 2024 (
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44:for general discussion of the article's subject.
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1808:hostile behavior; unfriendliness or opposition
2230:and leave this summary below in the article.
1798:is by Oxford Languages (languages.oup.com): "
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1949:@all: I added some other parts to my
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798:(TV series)
732:Peer review
618:participate
159:free images
42:not a forum
2358:Categories
2342:Kittsville
2182:BookeWorme
2160:Go for it
2128:BookeWorme
1953:. Now the
1732:articles "
1429:the term.
1395:50.4.4.131
1342:BookeWorme
1292:page were
1252:page were
628:, and see
384:discussion
284:contact us
278:. You may
2280:DanielCro
2266:DanielCro
2232:DanielCro
2148:DanielCro
1802:hostility
1533:Same as @
1409:BuggS8263
845:translate
315:is rated
99:if needed
82:Be polite
32:talk page
2190:contribs
2178:unsigned
1986:WP:SYNTH
1350:contribs
1338:unsigned
1193:Politics
1184:politics
1143:Politics
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992:Religion
770:Pictures
763:Articles
222:240Â days
197:Archives
67:get help
40:This is
38:article.
2315:Tosatur
2313:term."
2207:Tarylem
2142:reason.
2067:Tarylem
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2005:Tarylem
1971:Tarylem
1951:Sandbox
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1602:Tarylem
1588:Tarylem
1565:contri.
1531:Tarylem
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1497:Tarylem
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