Talk:Union for the Mediterranean

3504:

Mediterranean Union as a tool to dominate the internal politics of former colonies of France, namely Tunisia, Morocco and Algeria. With Maghreb states being independent and not given any hopes to join EU, France lost most of its political leverage on the governments of these three states for decades. Sarkozy's Napoleonic visions of gaining control over former imperial territory and vsions of fulfilling his promise to keep Turkey out of EU in order to ride the ultranationalist/racist wave rising in France, brought the Mediterranean Union idea into French politics as a very useful concept. Due to lack genuine support, on the part of France, to bring together Mediterranean countries on a level platform where collaborations can be forged and problems can be discussed, this idea is seen as a result of French political hypocrisy and a mere annoyance rather than an attractive proposal in Turkey.

2682: 2661: 4269:. But is this of any importance to this Article? The Union does include anyhow the whole European Union, so having or not having a coast should be no criterium. And yes, there are countries which are considered always Mediterranean not having a coastline on this sea: Portugal for instance. This is too much subject to short-lived changes of political frontiers - was Serbia a Mediterranean country up to 2006 because it was united with Montenegro and than stopped being it? Would Bosnia stop being one if Croatia took away the 2-3 miles of coast which it retained after the breakup of Yugoslavia? Is 4487:"Multilateral partnership" is used as opposed to bilateral partnerships. Since the 27 EU members states count as one party in all of its foreign policy, specifying that the UfM is multilateral means that it is part of the EU relations with more than one country at the same time. The Association Agreements are an example of bilateral relations between the EU and another country. Regarding whether it makes sense to have a partnership with countries as diverse and distant as Sweden and Mauritania, and even more calling it a "Union", I think that depends on each one's personal opinions, right? 2901: 639: 618: 3748:

a member of the new formed organization. Monaco on the other hand is closely tied to French politics when it comes to international representation and the French government still plays a major role in Monegas politics, which would explain why there was no need for the Monegas government to acutally join the union (as comparison: Moaco is also part of the Schengen Agreement without ever acually signing it, since they are often internationally represented by France, beside the fact that they are an independent country.) --

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Dardanelles, Sea of Marmara and Bosporus, (...) Area (excluding the Black Sea): 2.512.300 sq. km (970.000 sq miles)." That gives us a hint: normally speaking, the Mediterranean Sea does not include the Black Sea, but some geographers might disagree, so the issue is clarified for the reader by this parenthesis. There is no information about the area

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opinion to consider it a failure or not. However, throughout the entry you will find some of main critiques against it. The most important are the conflict between the member countries and the fact that the Mediterranean countries are more interested in their bilateral relations with the EU than in this multilateral and inefficient Union.

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If you'd take a closer look you'd be able to see that most of the Balkan-countries are represented in the Mediterrenean union, except for those who are not bordering the Meditanean; as for Gibraltar, it's a British Oversea Territory and thus internationally represented by the United Kingdom, which is

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Why do you say that? AKP is pro-European and is supported by Brussels. It is the military which opposes him and the military - guardian of the secular state - is opposed by Brussels as an anti-democratic influence. Pressure from Brussels is the main reason their powers and influence have been curbed.

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As I can see things from Switzerland, the Mediterranean Union's major purpose is to boost northern africa's developpement, and maybe more, as Israel announced it was interested in the project. The thing with Turkey is more like a promise from Sarkozy to the racist part of his electorate, negociations

3307:

You know, there should be infomation found to see if all this idea is just a way of a Christian Europe trying to shun Muslim Turkey from the European Union, offering them something worth dirt in return. For all their talk on tolerance, they seem to hate and fear Muslims, and are very hypocritical. In

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I have worked at the Spanish Ministry of Foreign Affairs with the EuroMed coordinator, and none of the documents we dealt with had any sort of flag. I do not know where this white and blue flag comes from, but it is not official. The only official "logo" is this double euro sign (commonly called the

4048:

Well, I just thought that since the MU is being used to try and bring peace to the Near East by having Arab countries and Israel in the same regional organisation where they will have to work together, maybe it could do the same for Russia, Georgia and the Ukraine. Just a thought. And Merkel made it

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Can someone explain why the UK, germany, the netherlands, finland etc. are inluded in the mediterranian union?? That is just stupid, as far as I can see their only relation to the med is the fact that are share borders with or a close to a country that is touching it, and as for being members of the

3251:

after reading the article i sensed that the Mediteranean Union is a European Union organization that has invited in some of its ousthern neighbors, i think it is neccessary to keep the EU out of this article, or perhaps include a section for its role in the Creation of the Mediteranean Union, i dont

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Since Ireland is a member of the EU and all the 27 EU member states are part of the Union for the Mediterranean, then Ireland is part of it too. The distinction between northern and southern shores is part of the terminology used in declarations, conferences and workshops regarding euro-med issues.

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Christians. I think you are overplaying the religion point here, particuarly as a) Europe has come this far in letting Turkey join (if they didn't want them, why start negotiations) and b) most of Europe is secular now anyway. Yes there is discrimination, but not on the level you are seaking of. On

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Well Mauritiania isn't on the med rim, although Jordan isn't either. If you can find something that mentiones it in connection with the MedU then yes. When it comes down to it Mauritiania may well be allowed to join for political reasons, but I think think Sarkozy is thinking along those lines, its

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For a geologist, the Mediterranean Basin would probably include the Black Sea, but that is a geological, not geographical, issue. Climatologist have their own definiton: they consider five regions as having a so-called "Mediterranean clima": besides the Mediterranean, these are California, part of

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If Sarkozy wants to deal with immigration effectively, which is something Spain will likely expect to see, Mauritania will be part of the MU. Since nothing official has yet been proposed by Sarkozy, I think that looking at NATO's Mediterranean Dialogue provides a good list of countries to consider

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Regarding the writing style I wanted to use the terminology employed in the declarations to make it look neutral and accurate. I do believe that the UfM is a new phase in the EuroMed Partnership and that is also the view of the people working in it and many experts. The innovative side of the six

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As far as I know geography, the Black Sea is part of the Mediterranean, just like the Adriatic Sea. Now, where are the Black Sea countries in this union? The Ukraine, Russia, and Georgia (the post-Soviet state, you know), they should all be a part of this union. They are not even mentioned in the

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It is a German jalousy. Germany, like most northern European nation would heve prefered to be a mediterranean nation. When Sarkozy developped the ide to make an union that include all mediterranean nations Germany was upset not being included, or more precisely Germany was jalous that France was

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The whole thing is based upon the idea of the EU and the politics of the EU not extending to Turkey etc. Further more it is the southern EU countries, not European as a whole, who are connected to the project. The EU is only mentioned in here where relevant I'd like to point out, e.g. reasons for

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Granted pretty much all of this is pure speculation because very little has yet to come out on any hypothetical Mediterranean Union, but couldn't Mauritiania possibly become a member? It has strong ties to the other Maghreb countries and is very involved in the problem of illegal migration which

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I personally think that it is a failure, and even though many people can agree with that, the reality is that it is still working, there countries putting many efforts to the projects and the Secretriat, and fairly enough it has not been dismantled yet. So I think that it falls into a personal

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Sarkozy promised his electorate base to prevent Turkey's EU membership and came up with an imaginary union of mediterranean countries. Turkey clearly stated that it will not be part of any such union, as a blow to Sarkozy's wet dream. Additionally, Sarkozy has visions of using the prospective

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The Western Balkan states are all considered potential EU members by the EU or are already negotiating their entry. Including them into this much looser ME might have been understood as a signal that the EU attempts to lessen their status. Their priority is membership; afterwards they will be

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South Africa, a strip in Chile and a strip on the west coast of Australia. And for a social anthropologist, having a coastline or not might be just irrelevant, as the term "Mediterranean (culture or gastronomy or lifestyle)" would be defined by a set of many aspects, not only geographicals.--

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I would definitely say, no, it is not. I just opened by Collins Dictionnary, which is as good a source for what is generally accepted, and it says: "Mediterranean Sea (...) linked with the Atlantic by the Strait of Gibraltar, with the Red Sea by the Suez Canal and with the Black Sea by the

4533:

Personally, I think the main problem with the present article is that it fails to discuss how the UfM has stalled (if not failed completely). The bureacracy may tick on, but fairly basis stuff like selecting the co-presidents just hasn't happened. We need decent sources to back this up. —

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Looks good. Two points on what is there now, firstly, don't use level one headers (those with only one equals sign), use 2 and below. Secondly, avoid bullet points in the lede. Besides that, good start! Just sign your posts with 4 tilde's (~~~~), or the sinebot will come after you!

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Why Germany exactly? I can't see anything myself, I don't think the presidency has commented. There may be something once a more detailed proposal is put on the table, often they don't like commenting on speculation. Unless of course it is directed at you, like with Turkey. -

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Yes, they should, but they aren't. This is purely a political division, proved by the fact that Merkel made Germany enter the union, contrary to all common sense. You should also note how some other Mediterranean-based countries aren't members of the organization.

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included in a union in wich Germany wasn't. I doubt that France would have reacted the same way if germany was at the origin of the creation of a Baltic union, France would never ask to be included in such an union in which it has nothing to see.

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between EU and Turkey didn't stop (nobody else than Sarkozy thought of the Mediterranean Union as a way to keep Turkey out of EU, seems to me.) Whatsoever, we should find some sources for all that stuff, instead of using Knowledge (XXG) as a forum.

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PRIPISUJE ARISTOTELU. U SUBOTICI 04.08.2009--82.208.202.73 (разговор) 08:34, 4. август 2009. (CEST)Σ.--82.208.202.57 22:09, 6. kolovoza 2009. (CEST)--82.208.203.102 (d) 13 août 2009 à 21:41 (CEST)--82.208.203.102 19:49, 13 Αυγούστου 2009 (UTC)

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Romania and Bulgaria are Mediterranean countries, for they are on the Black Sea, and Jordan and Mauritania are just not on the Mediterranean. Jordan has a bit of coast in the Gulf of Aqaba, which is in the Red Sea, and Mauritania is on the

3308:

this way, the US is better, because unless you live in Northern Europe, if you are a Muslim, you are likely going to treated badly. That begs the question though, because Bosnia is majority Muslim, will they ever be able to join the EU.--

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Read nothing on it, personal opinion would be not - although geographically in the right place it is of minor political importance so I'd doubt it - as I'm sure you know logical things like geography really don't come into politics.-

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The EU did not want double set of institutions. The cost of that would be ASTRONOMIC. So the French president proposed that the whole of EU would be involved in the union of the Mediterranean. Nothing more or less!

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I just clicked on the link you provided! - it mentions nothing about cyprus, or that its the only thing turkey will get until it leaves cyprus!? I believe this is your personal view, and should be edited out!!!

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The EU countries are referred to as the northern shore, whereas the rest are the southern one (even though some of them, like Albania or Croatia are actually on the northeastern side of the Mediterranean Sea).

4362:

Much of this article talks about upcoming events and plans for dates that have long passed. It needs a complete overhaul and update (and parts could do with being translated into English at the same time!).

3931:

I'd like to note that one of the maps does show Kosovo, the other one does not. Despite the fact that it is highly controversial whether it is an independent state or not, I suggest we stick to one version.

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Bosnia has been promised membership along with the rest of the Western Balkans, including Albania which is majority Muslim. Plus Europe acted with the US in the defence of Muslims in both Bosnia and Kosovo

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projects is that they are not chapters, but "concrete" things. I will also add that English is not my native language as you might have guessed by now, so writing this entry has been kind of a challenge.

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Under "Black Sea", the dictionnary says: "An inland sea between SE Europe and Asia, connected to the Aegean Sea by the Bosporus, the Sea of Marmara and the Dardanelles (...)". There is no mention of the

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1. I feel your writting style reads more like a press realease than an encyclopedia article. Phrases like "gather together", "a new phase", and "concrete projects" have a certain amount of PR in them.

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ALso I think it is generaly to do with the issues it will cover, migration for example is between north africa and southern EU, they don't waste much time going up the Adriatic to live in Bosnia. -

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If anyone can find an official German response to the proposal, please reference it in the article. I've looked, but all I can find in English are private denunciations (I don't speak German).

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Berlin united with the Central and Eastern European member states to downgrade Sarkozy’s Union for the Mediterranean into a meaningless discussion forum and inefficient member bloated exercise.

4386:, I will be updating shortly this entry for my graduate class on Introduction to the Study of the Arab World, a required course in Georgetown's M.A. in Arab studies. I am currently working in 3348:Ελληνική Δημοκρατία--82.208.200.109 (d) 9 août 2009 à 15:32 (CEST)Σ--82.208.203.102 (d) 13 août 2009 à 18:27 (CEST) Ως Μεσόγειος είναι γνωστή από τα αρχαιότατα χρόνια μεγάλη κλειστή θάλασσα-- 3258:Ελληνική Δημοκρατία--82.208.200.109 (d) 9 août 2009 à 15:32 (CEST)Σ--82.208.203.102 (d) 13 août 2009 à 18:27 (CEST) Ως Μεσόγειος είναι γνωστή από τα αρχαιότατα χρόνια μεγάλη κλειστή θάλασσα-- 135: 706: 3274:Μεσόγειος Θάλασσα--82.208.203.102 19:50, 13 Αυγούστου 2009 (UTC) Ως Μεσόγειος είναι γνωστή από τα αρχαιότατα χρόνια μεγάλη κλειστή θάλασσα,--82.208.203.102 19:55, 13 Αυγούστου 2009 (UTC)-- 1649: 4277:

mountains? As long as the Union is not about shipping & navigation issues, politicians probably don't waste too much time thinking about coastlines. Are they of any importance here?

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Thanks for your reply. I would have thought it would be of importance when it comes to maritime affairs and trade. In my opinion, politics doesn't have much logic most of the time ;o) --

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I agree : this link don't back up the "plan to leave Turkey out of EU." It only mentionned that Turkey will support the Mediterranean Union only if it is not an alternative to EU.

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The black sea is not the mediterranean, even if both are connected. Red sea or Atlantic ocean are also connected to the mediterranean, that does not mean they are part of it.

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What ever happened to the section that mentioned these and briefly explained why they were not (at least for the time being) included to be part of the Union. Such places like

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The UK should have been in it anyway as a Med power (Gibraltar and the Cyprus bases). Academic now, and this whole Union seems to have been entirely forgotten about anyway.

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data though, there are loads of analyasis around based on rejecting Turky's membership but last time I looked there hasn't been much on the MedU yet, still theory. -

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Germany’s insistence for the inclusion of all EU member states in the Mediterranean Union would finally prevent it from ever emerging as a meaningful institution.

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2. What is meant by "multilateral partnership"? The Union for the Mediterranean might be both of these, but dumping them together doesn't really make any sense.

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Well then what is the big difference with the Adriatic? It is also only connected to the Med, and you wouldn't think that Croatia isn't a Mediterranean country.

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The difference: the Adriatic Sea is always considered part of the Mediterranean, whereas the Black Sea is normally not - just check the square miles given for

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geo-politics is more politics than geography, its southern Europe - good enough. This isn't an issue for the article though, perhaps you should email Sarko.-

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I don't think Libya is a member because Gaddafi said he wont join because he thinks it will compromise African Union and Arab League. I saw it on Al Jazeera.

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What does Portugal have to do with the Mediterranean Sea? Does anyone know why an Atlantic country have been included in this supranational organization? --

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clear that they must be part of the MU because the MU uses EU funds. True, the MU could exist without EU funding and so be independent of the EU, but...--

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http://web.archive.org/web/20111110040453/http://www.maec.es/es/MenuPpal/Paises/Mediterraneo/Documents/conclusiones_%20Desarrollo%20Sostenible.doc

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http://web.archive.org/web/20111110040459/http://www.maec.es/es/MenuPpal/Paises/Mediterraneo/Documents/conclusiones_Employment%20and%20Labour.DOC

3650:

According to the following Euronews article, this plan will go on and will be the only thing Turkey will get for now until they liberate Cyprus:

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I couldn't find anything about Kadhafi being "outraged" about this proposal, but I found some references for the visit in Tunisia and Algeria.

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http://web.archive.org/web/20111110040411/http://www.maec.es/es/MenuPpal/Paises/Mediterraneo/Documents/conclusiones_Ecofin%207%20July%2009.doc

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http://web.archive.org/web/20111110040437/http://www.maec.es/es/MenuPpal/Paises/Mediterraneo/Documents/conclusiones_%20Ecofin%20%20FEMIP.doc

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Yes, Libya should be mentioned somehow (together with a source showing that it is observer) - currently it is only depicted on the map.

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http://www.petra.gov.jo/Public_News/Nws_NewsDetails.aspx?Site_Id=1&lang=2&NewsID=73305&CatID=13&Type=Home&GType=1

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http://web.archive.org/web/20110719150143/http://www.la-moncloa.es/IDIOMAS/9/Gobierno/News/2010/15112010UnionMediterraneanSummit.htm

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http://web.archive.org/web/20111110040427/http://www.maec.es/es/MenuPpal/Paises/Mediterraneo/Documents/conclusiones%20comercion.pdf

3843:. In short: Germany felt left out and didn't want France running off with EU funds without them there to vote on what it went to.- 3477:

All EU members are by default part of the Union for the Mediterranean, regardless of whether they have a Mediterranean coastline.

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I would guess that Gibraltar is already represented in the organisation through the UK since it is a British Oversea Territory.

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http://web.archive.org/web/20111110040430/http://www.maec.es/es/MenuPpal/Paises/Mediterraneo/Documents/conclusiones_%20Women.doc

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http://web.archive.org/web/20111110040506/http://www.maec.es/es/MenuPpal/Paises/Mediterraneo/Documents/conclusiones_%20Water.doc

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http://web.archive.org/web/20111110040502/http://www.maec.es/es/MenuPpal/Paises/Mediterraneo/Documents/conclusiones_%20SANTE.doc

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http://web.archive.org/web/20111110040456/http://www.maec.es/es/MenuPpal/Paises/Mediterraneo/Documents/conclusiones_INDUSTRY.doc

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http://www.ansamed.info/ansamed/en/news/sections/politics/2012/06/29/UfM-Jordan-hold-co-presidency-south-Med-Sept-_7119399.html

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The pop. number was wrong. I have putted the one from the article about the country. Though no official census was taken...

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Could still say south of Europe, can also be used in the IR sense. Its only on usage anyway, better word to cover that?-

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Well then I'll have to rephrase my question: is the Black Sea part of the Mediterranean in a strictly geographic sense?

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Sarkozy's suggestion, comparison as it is based on it and where the EU is already involved (e.g. Barcelona). -

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it now looks to be fully integrated with that. Therefore, should these two articles be merged together?

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Sarkozy didn't tell everything, but I think this is because of the relative instability of this region.

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