1811:. In all cases, they all have some of the high quality "best of" lists and more detailed explanations of why they're notable. But the latter also has mishmashes of passing mentions, long descriptions of plot, or general statements about the writing with the character cited as an example. I've avoided the latter, focusing on quality-over-quantity for the reception section (like "a rare design achievement" or "better than any character that came after"). I realize I might be too strict, and a lot of readers might benefit from seeing journalists briefly mention a character as an element of great story/characterization/music. Plus this is an older series from before the era of internet journalism and top ten lists, so for a journalist to comment on characterization at all is itself pretty noteworthy.
2013:. It's probably less important now that there's at least one other source that establishes the same thing, and that the statement is really an intro sentence that establishes what other journalists say in later sentences. I know you said it might not alone establish that they're among the greatest game villains of all time, which is why it's double referenced. Perhaps the double reference helps support it sticking around, or perhaps it makes it redundant. I see ho harm in keeping it or removing it at this point, so you can tell me what feels most appropriate.
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That said, I can put in more effort if you can. I'd just need to know how many references we still need to cross the GA line. I don't mind working at this if you'd be gracious enough to give me more time and direction. I figure we can select the refs, and then I can spend time cleaning up the prose,
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As you can see, the longer (self-reverted) version has 46 sources, versus only 35 sources for the shorter (current) version. Like I said, I would err towards the current 35 source version as quality over quantity, which is still expanded from where we were a week ago. If we're up to standard, we can
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should have access dates, time codes for the long video, and improved citations for the "Background" section. I also added new sources to the reception, focusing on both the quality of the source and the quality of the coverage. You'll see the reception section is expanded, with new sources and more
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Thanks for the review so far. Most of those issues are pretty easy to address and I ask a little patience as I work through them. I see your point about the reception section. I tried to focus on quality over quantity -- four sources proclaiming them as one of the best races -- but there's a lot of
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This similarly led GameSpot to rank the Star
Control II soundtrack as the second greatest of all time, as "these themes were as diverse as the aliens' appearances. Your Green Ur-Quan masters had a commanding, pounding beat, while their more sinister brothers, the Black Ur-Quan, had a more menacing
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It's really quite bad how the author of this page told the story of the Ur-Quan. Striving not to look like he's plagiarising the actual in-game content (which failed rather badly), he/she robbed the telling of most of its story-likeness. This looks like a police report, not something told in the
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So I'm still open about what to do here and I want to respect your time. Based on the discussion at the WikiProject talk page, people seem to support (or at least consent to) keeping the
Pikimal/PikiGeek source here. I do wish more people chimed in on that discussion, but there is evidence of
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The main issue I see is with criterion 3. The article has all the relevant sections needed for a sufficiently broad coverage of the topic, but the reception section is sorely lacking. We've basically only got four sources' worth of coverage; I don't think the 1MoreCastle ref meets
2045:, as opposed to an opinion ("the greatest", etc.). Because this is a game from such an old time, sources are going to be obscure, including defunct sites like PikiGeek. Since there is some evidence of editorial oversight at PikiGeek, I started a discussion
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Oh sorry, this slipped my mind too. ALT1 is still confusing, because it's the same information as ALT0 but with the text in a different order. Most casual
Knowledge (XXG) readers (myself included) wouldn't understand this or why it's interesting at all.
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On the other hand, I might be more strict on sourcing than other editors. I have enough self-awareness that I might be preventing the article from having as much detail as it deserves, and that might actually make for a better article. So I also wrote
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I took a shot at cleaning up the references and making them more readable. I also started to add some of the stronger stuff to the reception, where journalists are very specific about how important they are, particularly
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Most of the "name drop" quotes in the "Reception" section are simply "mentions" in context of the game rather than about the race itself. They do not make the race stand out as a plot device or character. For example,
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1939:. No hurry and I know this talk page is getting long. Don't mind waiting and don't mind getting a third opinion if it eases the burden. Still have the time and energy to bring this up to standard.
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If the facts are easy to verify, they should be replaced with better sourcing. You can't really add a bunch of unreliable sources together and say that they combine to equal a reliable one.
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The Ur-Quan eventually freed themselves, and formed a galactic empire of their own. The green Ur-Quan were renamed the Ur-Quan Kzer-Za in honor of the Ur-Quan scientist who freed them all.
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says that "If the subject is a work of fiction or a fictional character, the hook must involve the real world in some way." This hooks is completely in-universe about
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I wanted to archive this here. I have no doubt that the quote is authentic, but the source is old and janky. It's documented here in case there is further discussion.
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presence of an open fire, to fascinated listeners. Single-verb sentences aren't really good for keeping the reader interested, you know. Someone PLEASE rewrite this?
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standard, as opposed to a squishier statement like a "best ever" opinion. There's some precedent for that more cautious single-purpose approach according to this
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If you can find additional sources to bolster the reception section, I will take another look. Otherwise I think the article doesn't meet standards at present. --
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editorial oversight. I'm willing to hear you out on what your objection is to the source. I'm willing to be more cautious with the phrasing. We could get yet
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I respect that and if push comes to shove we can just remove it. When I referred to it being easily verified, I was talking about something that could be
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I would recommend putting timecode for specific callouts for ref 1, the video postmortem, so it is easier to verify, along with/or with direct quotations.
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Article is long enough (9789 characters), is a GA, nominated in time (became GA on 24 November, nominated on 25 November), and article is within policy
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from when the site was still around. At the very least, this fact is pretty easy to verify and I think this source is reliable enough for this purpose.
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a version with even more detail in the reception, which I self-reverted as a matter of personal taste but but can re-add if you think it has merit
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game universes, and the casual reader would have no idea what this hook is about. Please can you provide a hook that adheres to the above rule?
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I defer to the discussion for the purposes of GAC. I will take another look at the article today and see if there are any remaining issues.
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to get more feedback. I do respect
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requirements, and certainly can't be used to justify the statement that they're among the best villains in gaming alone.
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are ranked among the best game antagonists of all time, and have influenced character designs from modern games?
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are ranked among the best game antagonists of all time, and have influenced character design in modern games?
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Working on this a bit. I'm trying to fix the in-universe nature of it. Does it help to rewrite it like this?
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smaller praise for them as well. I'll chip away at all of this over the next few days and get back to you.
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on
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on
Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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Overall, while this article is competently written, I don't think it meets GA criteria at present.
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1882:- CON: same publication as and / PRO: adds more detail about what made the design noteworthy
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the additional sources and analysis below, and I'd be happy to iron out the last few kinks.
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As for those two sources, PikiGeek was a
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I appreciate it. Keep me posted with any other issues and I'll be happy to work on them.
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Citations missing fields like access date; I would recommend archiving them to avoid
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The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below.
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How is this notable? We do not have similar pages for more famous franchises (e.g.
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Let me know what you think so far, but I'll continue to work on this either way.
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As mentioned, I don't think the 1MoreCastle ref meets reliable source standards.
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as
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the rest of those sources in the edit history, and save yourself some effort.
1891:- CON: found this on google scholar. I don't get why people cite these. / PRO:
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Ref 35 is missing a title (it looks like the publication name was repeated.)
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Agreed, why dont you show us how it should be done instead of criticising?
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detail. If this one is close to GA quality, I would simply call it here,
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Remaining issue: what makes 1MoreCastle and PikiGeek a reliable source?
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The details about the
Precursor battleship are not adequately cited by
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in
Pennsylvania, which has a good pedigree. I think that gets us onto
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Wait, now it's the featured article of the whole wikipedia, lmao
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Knowledge (XXG) Did you know articles that are featured articles
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1903:- CON: short, minor role in Star Control 3 / PRO: it's something
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Overall the article is good, but the hook needs to be changed.
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Thanks again for reviewing and happy to keep working at it.
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I can see how it's a little too specific. Let me try again:
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Checking back in on this. (I received what appears to be a
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Featured articles that have appeared on the main page once
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2371:QPQ exempt as the user has
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1980:Thanks for jumping back in.
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1297:No did you know nominations
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2671:List of Star Control races
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1301:Reviews and reassessments
571:project's importance scale
407:Did you know ... that the
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979:Puff-puff (onomatopoeia)
906:Mario Party: The Top 100
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123:Find video game sources:
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1245:The Great Giana Sisters
863:Minecraft – Volume Beta
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100:Neutral point of view
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2537:science fiction
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2442:antagonist the
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2152:
2151:on May 24, 2001
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2090:
2072:another opinion
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1983:I fixed ref 35.
1968:
1840:current version
1836:
1809:Zero_(Mega_Man)
1797:Covenant (Halo)
1756:
1710:reliable source
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1655:This review is
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2130:— Fred Ford,
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2000:verifiability
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392:Did you know?
387:
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351:
350:July 19, 2021
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52:Learn to edit
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32:
26:
22:
18:
17:
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2640:Baller McGee
2620:
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2428:
2424:Star Control
2422:
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2351:Star Control
2349:
2305:
2291:Star Control
2289:
2279:
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2260:
2233:
2216:
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2207:
2199:
2195:
2190:
2187:
2165:
2155:November 25,
2153:. Retrieved
2149:the original
2135:
2134:co-creator,
2132:Star Control
2131:
2128:
2124:
2009:1MoreCastle
1965:
1918:WP:QUOTEFARM
1914:
1906:
1849:
1837:
1753:
1720:current refs
1702:
1690:
1689:
1678:
1668:
1667:
1654:
1643:Instructions
1584:
1580:
1577:
1573:
1560:
1498:
1400:reassessment
1378:
1360:
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1336:
1324:
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1234:
1210:
1196:
1182:
1168:
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1130:
1116:
1092:
1078:
1075:Pixel Piracy
1054:
1051:Miner 2049er
1040:
996:
982:
968:
941:
929:
917:
905:
893:
827:
824:participants
821:
808:
805:participants
802:
792:participants
789:
779:participants
776:
766:participants
763:
759:Ryo Sakazaki
750:
740:participants
737:
727:participants
724:
714:participants
711:
701:participants
698:
688:participants
685:
588:
566:
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464:WikiProjects
432:
422:
408:
406:
397:
389:
355:
336:
286:please do so
275:
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188:
186:WP reference
182:
178:
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138:
132:
122:
94:
19:This is the
2454:Mass Effect
2430:Mass Effect
2357:Mass Effect
2281:Mass Effect
1801:Celes Chere
1672:David Fuchs
1657:transcluded
1578:--AbuDhabi
1424:screenshots
1141:Async Corp.
965:Donkey Kong
843:Screen Rant
753:participant
621:Summary of
610:open tasks:
606:Summary of
542:Video games
533:video games
483:Video games
160:free images
31:not a forum
2696:Categories
2625:Voidvector
2598:Notability
2346:WP:DYKHOOK
1610:Authorship
1596:GA toolbox
1386:assessment
1231:River Raid
918:The Sims 4
867:discussion
857:discussion
847:discussion
817:Vector TDx
694:Butterfree
625:open tasks
488:Characters
396:column on
277:identified
136:newspapers
2417:... that
2259:... that
1910:WP:IGNORE
1868:WP:SYNTHy
1845:WP:IGNORE
1728:This bit
1669:Reviewer:
1633:Templates
1624:Reviewing
1589:GA Review
1418:cover art
1412:infoboxes
1089:Ether One
1027:Justin Yu
930:Smash Hit
386:Main Page
204:WPVG/Talk
126:"Ur-Quan"
88:if needed
71:Be polite
21:talk page
2677:Andrevan
2448:and the
2284:, after
2217:promoted
1807:or even
1682:contribs
1638:Criteria
1553:deletion
1442:creation
829:relisted
810:relisted
681:Dokibird
454:FA-class
362:Promoted
226:730 days
213:Archives
56:get help
29:This is
27:article.
2654:Agreed
2532:Ur-Quan
2450:Reapers
2445:Ur-Quan
2419:BioWare
2286:BioWare
2276:Reapers
2271:Ur-Quan
2241:Comment
2137:GameSpy
1893:WP:YMMV
1746:linkrot
1447:merging
1426:(8,818)
1406:cleanup
1259:Pikachu
720:Neo Geo
655:vg talk
645:history
569:on the
410:Ur-Quan
388:in the
321:Process
268:Ur-Quan
148:scholar
25:Ur-Quan
2572:Joseph
2502:Joseph
2386:Joseph
1430:photos
1361:Tetris
707:Bidoof
660:alerts
460:scale.
343:Listed
324:Result
2582:talk)
2539:game
2527:ALT2:
2512:talk)
2415:ALT1:
2396:talk)
1996:WP:RS
1737:ref 9
1659:from
1438:(190)
1420:(249)
1279:start
1265:start
1251:start
1237:start
1213:start
1199:start
1185:start
1171:start
1147:start
1133:start
1119:start
1095:start
1081:start
1057:start
1043:start
1007:Birdo
999:start
985:start
971:start
665:purge
650:shell
635:watch
417:game
270:is a
198:VG/RL
192:VG/RS
154:JSTOR
142:books
84:Seek
2658:czar
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675:AfDs
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318:Date
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