1634:. The WaPo sources directly says: "Lipien is a former VOA official." Note that the current text does not say that Lipien's blogs are "official" blogs, or that Lipien is a Trump voter or a Trump supporter. Instead the sentence says: "Pack named Ted Lipien, a former VOA official whose blog praised his efforts to change VOA into a pro-Trump propaganda outlet, as head of RFE/RL ..." That characterization is essentially supported by the WaPo source cited: "Lipien is a former VOA official who has run a blog titled BBG-USAGM Watch that is a forum for critical former VOA employees (BBG refers to USAGM’s former name). The blog has repeatedly asserted that VOA’s programming favors liberal views. It has also reported and commented favorably on Pack’s efforts to restructure the operation since he assumed the top job in June." However, since the source indeed does not mention Trump at all, I'll reword the relevant sentence in the article to correspond more closely to what the source actually says.
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all of whom express their support for the VOA Charter and have repeatedly criticized all violations of the VOA Charter, both on the left and on the right, and have called for accurate, balanced and comprehensive factual reporting by the Voice of
America. BBGWatch.com and USAGMWatch.com do not support Trump propaganda or propaganda of any kind and state it on their websites. and Ted Lipien is also not a former political VOA "official" but an independent journalist and a media freedom advocate who has been registered as an independent voter for some years and is not a supporter of former President Trump. He was promoted from within the Voice of America after he was VOA Polish Service chief during Poland's struggle for democracy and later VOA Eurasia Division director.
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course, is a crock. With one swift swing of his leather-soled shoe, Trump has breached the firewall and smashed its alleged independence, although a lawsuit to block Pack is in the works. As Ralph A. Uttaro wrote in a law journal in 1982, “The Voice of
America, no less than Radio Moscow or Radio Prague, endeavors to change the attitudes of its listeners.” Yes, it informs, but the main idea is frame the news to the U.S. government’s benefit. If the only goal was to inform, the government could save everybody a lot of money and bother by rebroadcasting The Associated Press.
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removed the word propaganda. The reason for removal is apparently that it's on our list of "contentious labels". It is not. Given the strong appetite for value-laden labels on
Knowledge (XXG) that I've seen elsewhere, I don't understand why we would whitewash this article by removing the description of VOA as "propaganda".
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First provide arguments, you aren´t a God or something similar to say "some people" and speak bad about "those people" just because they do not see things from your point of view, Knowledge (XXG) belongs to everyone and if something is added to the article That may affect the balance of the same in a
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The claim that Ted Lipien's "official" blog supported turning VOA into Trump propaganda outlet is false and not supported by any citations. BBGWatch.com and USAGMWatch.com are not official blogs of any person but are managed by unpaid volunteer citizen journalists, some of them former VOA reporters,
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To label it "state media" in the first sentence is misleading. It is governed by an independent state agency after the approval of the congress. Is it too hard to distinguish between this democratic process and the direct influence of the state media as a mouthpiece of the government? An example of
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you know, you're right. I'm not a fan of these value-laden descriptors in the opening paragraph of an article, either, especially when they're in
Wikivoice. But I've seen them defended passionately elsewhere, so I figured that they should at least be evenly applied. But that's wrong - you are right
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The report by
Annette Sheckler - former Horn of Africa service chief for a year - is a good source. I couldn't find much else that was usable - mostly dead urls, repeat references that were given independent numbers. An incident of Ethiopian authorities apparently blocked VOA + Deutsche Welle for a
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VOA has been described multiple times as propaganda. This was reflected in the opening sentence of the article until just the other day. When I pointed out on another article that VOA is not a great source for objective analysis of the
Ukraine war due to an inherent COI, someone came over here and
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I won't weigh in on the factual accuracy of the section, but it is WAY too long. The organization is over 70 years old, but this 4 year period dominates the history section. If an editors wants to maintain the text, please consider making a separate article. I will soon pare it down to a summary.
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VOA is state-media. There are no efforts made to compare it to your other examples, so I'm not clear why you bring these up. There are numerous kinds of state-media, with more or less government editorial control, depending. State-media is not the same as "mouthpiece," and it's not necessarily a
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I agree with your point that the VOA is a propaganda medium, I mean that this encyclopedia, although it may contain biases, we are not totally biased by elements such as the strict NPOV policy. Therefore, although we can point out that we cannot defend positions such as "VOA is not a propaganda
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I also anticipate objections from those who might cringe at the VOA and its sister institutions being called purveyors of propaganda. The people will bend over backward as they explain how the VOA “firewall” and charter preserve the service’s independence and journalistic credibility. This, of
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brief period but doesn't really fit in this article. Any good journalism source should expect to be censored in countries with governments intolerant of independent media; VOA has almost certainly been censored many times in many countries. The ref could be put into something like a section of
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If it is unclear which parts of the page are related to this contentious topic, the content in question should be marked within the wiki text by an invisible comment. If no comment is present, please ask an administrator for assistance. If in doubt it is better to assume that the content is
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and leave a relatively short paragraph with a redirect in the VOA article. However, the other issue I see here is the length of the section. Even in the VOA article, the section appears to be overly long and exessively detailed, probably in the need of compression. If moved over to
1536:. Much of the information discussed there deals with broader issues than just what happened at VOA, and concerns other networks managed by the USAGM, the overall USAGM management issues, the board appointments, etc. It makes more sense to move over this section to
2068:. There is not really any mention of this viewpoint (in regards to VoA today) in the body except concerns about increasing politicization, so there should be an expansion of this first. The lead could also be expanded to mention its role during the Cold War.
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by a brand new IP editor with the edit summary "the ref does not refer to the rumor, denied, by unnamed persons, as saying this was a cia site, so this is irrelevant". I don't see the justification for this deletion. Since it was reverted, instead I
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medium" or "yes it is", we cannot point them out and say that they are the majority of publishers, and that this encyclopedia is biased, by themselves. How it happened with the premise of the individual who started this thread. --
2555:.) The IP's far-too wordy version ("Unconfirmed and denied rumor that Thai relay station was used to interrogate terrorists") over-emphasizes the denials. There must be some middle-ground, which I tried to establish in my
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Still, in CCTV page, the same term "propaganda" is repetively stated multiple times. Given these two institutions are similar in terms of functionality, can you justify why does this two pages is treated differently?
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It's part of the of the U.S. Agency for Global Media (USAGM). But there are plenty of words other than agency -- "network," "broadcaster," or "institution" could all work instead of "agency" without losing any
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If you're seeing contentious language elsewhere, you should remove it (or if you're not sure, tag it or bring it up on talk). Just because one article has a problem doesn't mean another article should too.
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I suggest we work on a compromise agreeable to all. I think we might agree that the original title "Relay station used as a CIA black site" makes it sound too much like the rumor was true. (Based on the
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What is the meaning of the superscript "R"s and "T"s in the "Current languages" section? Normally I'd expect them to be hyperlinked to some sort of explanation at the bottom of the section or article. --
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I would be open to significantly increasing the scope of the "contentious labels" list, and have advocated this in the past. But that's a separate discussion. Currently, propaganda is not on the list.
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where such sources are mouthpieces of their own governments, aren't critical of them, whereas the Voice of
America reports about everything, whether it's critical or not. These are simply basics.
1791:, there was a note saying "(radio programs are marked with an "R"; TV programs with a "T")". The IP edit also removed some of the languages. I don't have time to investigate further though. --
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In this page, it's pretty clear that the term "a propaganda outlet" appears in the very first sentence so I think it's a common practice to add this term to all other similar platform.
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In this page, it's pretty clear that the term "a propaganda outlet" appears in the very first sentence so I think it's a common practice to add this term to all other similar platform.
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If you think propaganda is DUE in the lead, improve the reference thats there. Dont need to add another, extra dont need it in the lead and dont need to add it without sources
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To clarify, when I removed it (twice) it was primarily because it was uncited. If it weren't contentious language, I would have acted differently, like maybe putting a
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that the original. IPs version does not reflect the articles accurately and instead focuses too heavily on official denials rather than the cause of the rumor (see
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Given the strong appetite for value-laden labels on
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Alright, I never realized I was involved in a editing war. I change the text simply because I checked the China
Central Television wiki page
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ends with an ellipsis (...) so I took it as non-exhaustive. There are other words I'd consider contentious that are missing too, like, say,
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In this case, I would suggest to remove "propaganda outlet" in China
Central Television's wiki page to avoid double standard and follow
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In this case, I would suggest to remove "propaganda outlet" in China Central Television's wiki page to avoid double standard and follow
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The members of the Ahmadi Religion of Peace and Light whom were seeking safety in the EU are detained by the Turkish border police.
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The members of the Ahmadi Religion of Peace and Light whom were seeking safety in the EU are detained by the Turkish border police.
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on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the ongoing discussions.
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as a propaganda outlet for the Russian government. Oh I get it, Knowledge (XXG) is a biased online encyclopedia! Case closed.
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Why do some users have a hard time accepting VOA as a propaganda outlet for the American government while easily labeling say
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on it instead since I don't actually know enough about VOA to judge. On the other hand, the most recent removal was done by @
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problems there. So I am not sure what exactly should be done here and in which order, and extra opinions would be welcome.
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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Restore back to the long-standing status quo of 2/6/24 before new IP editor started changing this section to make it less
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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https://sofiaglobe.com/2023/05/24/members-of-religious-minority-seeking-asylum-pushed-back-at-turkish-bulgarian-border/
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Also, I'm not familiar with the Ukraine war discussion you're talking about. Maybe you confused my edit with Prolog's?
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The sentence in the article that you object to is directly supported by the source cited, the Washington Post article
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https://www.eureporter.co/world/turkey/2023/05/24/over-100-church-members-beaten-and-arrested-at-the-turkish-border/
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We should either re-insert the description, or step back and have a broader conversation about contentious labels.
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https://www.npr.org/2021/01/22/959848852/usagm-chief-fires-trump-allies-over-radio-free-europe-and-other-networks
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The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
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considerable way, that first has to be discussed. be a little more formal and stop using this part of this
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it and do not make unpleasant and unhelpful comments to the encyclopedia article. Thanks for your time. --
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pejorative term (this depends on the reader's perspective). You can familiarize yourself with wikilinked
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may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the
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on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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Voice of America (VOA or VoA) is the international radio broadcaster of the United States of America.
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Well, I do not think calling it a propaganda outlet in wikivoice in the first sentence would follow
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violations would have to be fixed; and the general NPOV would have to be checked. The material was
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The reason for removal is apparently that it's on our list of "contentious labels". It is not.
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Voice of America is seen by some listeners as having a positive impact while others see it as
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Why was it added to the first line? It was already in the lead in a better place with context
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The article is still categorized under "United States Government Propaganda Organizations".
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Of course the VOA is a propaganda outlet. I don't know why anyone would contest that fact.
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Would you please pin point to me where you got that the Voice of America is "an agency"?
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I have read, I do not believe that to be the case. But my research would be considered
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THAT'S MUCH BETTER THAN GIVING AN UNSIGNED, IRRELEVANT COMMENT TO IMPROVE THIS ARTICLE
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back to the long-standing status quo and am happy to discuss how to make the section
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VOA was also prohibited from broadcasting to American citizens until 2013, under the
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This is an exceptionally well written section. This story seems to be more about the
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Voice of America (VOA or VoA) is an international radio broadcasting state media
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article to develop a sense of the different state media approaches that exist.
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account (granted automatically to accounts with 500 edits and an age of 30 days)
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You may not make more than 1 revert within 24 hours on this article (except in
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we have people and Wikipedians of all points of view, with the aim of making
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and later I and more people will discuss in a friendly way what can be done.
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I agree that calling it propaganda in wikivoice in the first sentence is
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procedure applies to this article. Parts of this article relate to the
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2424:"Spare the indignation: Voice of America has never been independent"
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as well. Maybe we should bring this up at the relevant noticeboard?
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The new editor acting under various IP addresses, keeps trying to
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I see you tried to edit another page and explain it by justifying
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Knowledge (XXG) Ambassador Program student projects, 2011 Spring
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so you can face the consequences of tone comments like this.
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during the 2011 Spring term. Further details are available
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A fact from this article was featured on Knowledge (XXG)'s
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who seems to have actually read the source that was added.
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Ethiopian Authorities Accused Of Disrupting Radio Programs
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Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the
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I'd like to raise several concerns regarding the section
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Voice of America#Trump presidency politicization efforts
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This is not a site to contribute your personal opinions
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Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject International relations
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1473:'Trump presidency politicization efforts' section
1391:. Thank you. Oh, by the way, sign your responses
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1318:at Georgetown University supported by the
1812:Well spotted! I will restore the note. --
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1585:Relevant discussion may be found on the
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2436:from the original on May 20, 2022
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1937:Douglas Mpuga (16 January 2008),
1767:What do superscript R and T mean?
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2717:state media
2607:called the
2595:recent edit
2589:JArthur1984
2494:MOS:SEEALSO
2464:immediately
2221:Stalinist57
1869:. There is
1430:Binksternet
1242:section on
1239:On this day
353:written in
312:not a forum
233:free images
116:not a forum
2738:Categories
2696:Esperfulmo
2370:August 22,
2332:References
2277:Theres no
2034:propaganda
1952:Q122648397
1925:References
1875:WP:RELTIME
1670:References
1547:WP:BALANCE
1449:OfficeBlue
1412:OfficeBlue
1358:RT America
1072:Television
1015:Television
963:Journalism
954:journalism
910:Journalism
852:Multimedia
826:Sound bite
436:Government
325:refactored
2668:Rossiya 1
2498:Cullen328
1808:Pokechu22
1793:Pokechu22
1787:Prior to
1587:talk page
1501:talk page
1234:Main Page
173:if needed
156:Be polite
106:talk page
69:, or any
2711:meaning.
2517:reverted
2467:reverted
2440:June 25,
2434:Archived
2401:Archived
2361:Archived
2353:Dialogue
2182:W.andrea
2168:W.andrea
2084:WP:UNDUE
1949:Wikidata
1580:disputed
1494:disputed
1271:Archives
368:traveled
271:Archives
141:get help
114:This is
112:article.
81:covered.
2660:RT news
2531:WP:NPOV
2521:WP:NPOV
2284:Softlem
2273:WP:NPOV
2248:WP:NPOV
2191:fascist
2127:fascist
2088:WP:NPOV
2066:WP:NPOV
2051:Softlem
1236:in the
1204:on the
1099:on the
990:on the
873:Answer
812:Cleanup
762:on the
657:on the
544:on the
402:C-class
364:defense
331:at the
239:WPÂ refs
227:scholar
2643:It is
2637:agency
2622:It is
2197:, and
2195:fringe
2148:Prolog
1814:Beland
1774:Beland
1720:Ashmoo
1250:, and
846:Verify
510:Alerts
408:scale.
211:Google
2679:, and
2593:your
2561:WP:RS
2553:WP:OR
2549:WP:RS
2513:force
2472:added
2460:added
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2314:Ureal
2300:Ureal
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2070:Mellk
1636:Nsk92
1551:Nsk92
1406:. So
866:Other
735:Media
726:Media
682:Media
360:color
254:JSTOR
215:books
169:Seek
2725:talk
2700:talk
2676:CCTV
2573:talk
2567:. --
2502:talk
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833:NPOV
247:FENS
221:news
158:and
30:The
2603:It
2129:or
1752:. —
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