1713:, I prioritize these articles because they have this little green blob that Knowledge have decided means the article meets a certain set of criteria, and thus I think (perhaps wrongly) that they should meet said criteria. If you are not willing to devote time and effort to making the articles meet the criteria, because you feel they should not be prioritized, simply let it be delisted. If you feel you don't currently have the time to "jump through made up hoops"—perfectly fair, you have done so 115 times already at
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1265:. Adding and subtracting vectors is always possible using components in a basis, but it is nontrivial to show that a basis always exists and certainly not part of the definition. For many infinite-dimensional vector spaces, you are not going to be adding componentwise: the set of all real-valued functions on a given set forms a vector space, but any basis is going to be of uncountably large dimension. If anything, the magnitude and direction formulation is emphatically
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a currently mediocre article and work to get it to higher quality. The way you're doing this now is inducing a bunch of experienced and careful editors to spend a bunch of work on frankly marginal activities that are a relative waste of time; you and they would be doing more good for the
Knowledge project if they picked something (just about anything) else to work on. As another example, it looks like this kind of thing went a substantial distance toward exhausting
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2157:; for myself, I will continue to work at GAR until the community decides to deprecate the process. It is not all I do on Knowledge—see today's featured article on the main page—but I find this to be worthwhile in itself. You are welcome to decide whether you have better things to do than provide trivial citations in the future. Thank you also for your cordiality in your responses.
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those articles yourself first. It comes across as selfish and thoughtless. And the net effect has already been to drive authors away from the GAR process, as they were previously driven away from the FAR process, because rather than being something that one can do and move on, it turns into a never-ending time sink of pointless re-reviews. —
1855:. I have seen your conversation about the improvement of the article on the talk page. Since the main author is busy in real life, I think I can take over temporarily by adding some sources and copyedits to this article. However, some comments may require some clarification from the main author directly.
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You are entirely welcome to devote your own time to improving GA articles to meet your standards of what GA articles should be. However, what I see you doing instead is making work for other people by nominating article after article for review, without any evidence of putting effort into cleaning up
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The page would gain comprehension and usefulness if a sub-section in the respective operations sections is also devoted to using the operation using component vectors. For example, in the addition of two vectors, using |R| = √((Ax + Bx)² + (Ay + By)²) and Angle between the resultant and base vector =
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This article is objectively "good" compared to the typical for
Knowledge articles. Instead of adding a bunch of perfunctory footnotes to arbitrarily chosen introductory textbooks that any curious reader can find for themself with about 1 minute of effort, it would be much more useful for you to find
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One could consider those certain vector bundles in which the base space is a point (I note this is not even mentioned in the article), and to then identify the total space with a vector space. It may be overly pedantic to say that the extra specification of the particular point matters, but I think
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The problem is not what you are doing with your free time. The problem is that you are imposing unreasonable demands on other editors, asking them to devote a considerable amount of their own time and effort to cleaning up articles that should not be prioritized. If it is so important to you that
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For the other tags, I did supply references. Let me, however, state quite clearly that this kind of citation needed request is hardly a service to anyone on
Knowledge: it was in these cases a trivial matter to find the required assertion in the subarticles, or to pull up various sources at once.
906:: if we were to merge the articles, it would be an enormous amount of work to get the result to a quality which is near the one of this article (right now). Unless someone is committed to such a task very definitely, both articles are likely to be a mess afterwards. I really think improving the
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I partially reverted the change for now, as I think it is important to have correct and clear definitions of the basic concepts in our vector space article. While I think the structured pairs of concept and definition work well, I would be fine with any other layout, as long as the definitions
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Thank you very much for your efforts on this article! What exactly though is the rationale behind the rearrangement of the second section? It seems to me to be a lot more difficult to understand in the new, compressed form, and for instance the definition of linear independence as "the linear
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Correct me if I'm wrong. The GACR2b has been modified, stating that the article has no original research but rather covered with the verifiability in the reliable sources and citation inlines, with the exception that plot summary or explanation do not need to be sourced. However, some of the
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as discussing a specific type of Vector. I really don't see the need for two different pages that describe the general concept of vectors from two slightly different angles. It does seem to me that it's worth keeping a distinction between
Euclidean Vectors and Euclidean Space -
902:. Instead, the latter article should be improved by making it into more than a kind of verbose disambiguation page. This article here is about the concept in linear algebra and its connections to other (mathematical) fields. Also, from a practical point of view, I agree with
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The presentation of the definition is not very good. A clear definition should IMHO mention all the components used. Furthermore, writing scalar multiplication not explicitly might be okay when working with vector spaces daily, but a definition should make this explicit.
2036:, currently at GAN, for something that does this well. I understand that you could see this as tiresome and/or pointless, but that is what the GA criteria ask for, and it is a lot easier than some articles which come to GAR needing to be entirely rewritten.
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Yes they are closely related. The point is that the process of taking a function f and associating to it its derivative (or second derivative etc.) is linear as well, which is why the solution spaces of homogeneous differential equations are vector
1677:, and stepped away from the site for a few months. I suspect it was more the peculiarities that discussion, rather than the process as a whole, which caused the casualties. I think we can agree in hoping that sort of thing won't happen again.
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All I was concerned about was that frequently it is useful to perform a vector sum in a manner that separates the magnitude and direction, and the formula for the same does not seem to be there in this particular article.
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IMO, such a major change of the organization of our articles must be prepared by writing first drafts of the future articles, and then having a wide discussion on explicit projects. Are you willing to write these drafts?
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I have removed to citation needed tags: in one case I decided to delete the paragraph containing it, because it was out of place there, in the other case (about addition of complex numbers) it was falling under
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associated with them, and which might be multidimensional. There is an example (ordered pairs of numbers) that showcases components, but in no way are the definitions dependent on the existence of a basis.--
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I can provide sources for whatever specifically needs citations, but I don't currently see things where I would want to have an additional source. If you want, add a citation needed tag and I'll take care.
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They are supposed to be axioms. Given the amount of time vector spaces have been defined, I would assume there would be a counterexample showing some mathematical object satisfying all axioms except one.
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I do not understand your second concern, since the word "meaning' does not appear in the article. I do not understand either your first concern. By "component", I suppose that you mean coordinates on a
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That paragraph in Binary operation conflicts with the definition given in the article proper. In usage it seems Scalar multiplication is a legacy exception, or carveout, as the usage perpetuates a
474:, just from a slightly different point of view. I will therefore suggest merging that page into this one, to avoid having a redundant page, and to have one place for people to look instead of two.
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has signalled their intention to work on the article on my talk page. As usual, this reassessment should be left open as long as they intend to work on it, up to a maximum of around three months.
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I also disagree with the merge, and I'll be removing the templates. A vector isn't a vector space, and the properties of vector spaces are vastly different than what vectors themselves are.
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My opinion about rearrangement is that there are some relation between basis and linear combination, and this could be explained in one single paragraph rather than described in list.
2098:, thanks very much for your work on the article so far. I have tagged a few places where inline citations would be helpful; please let me know if you think any of them fall under
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Also in the table of "axiom" the header "meaning" is a bit misleading, like that there is some room for interpretation, but actually whats given in the column is the definition.
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As far as I know, most textbooks on vector spaces use "binary operation" for the sclar multiplication, and not "binary function". So, Knowledge must follow the common usage.
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1666:, but the consensus of the Knowledge community is that it is a useful activity. If you feel that is not the consensus, you are free to propose deprecating the GA process at
1338:. If you find it erroneous, you must discuss it on that talk page. In any case, most textbooks call scalar multiplication a binary operation. 09:49, 22 December 2023 (UTC)
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I agree that only two (or maybe three) article are needed. One about vectors that are considered independently of the structure to which they belong, and the other,
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apologies, I am not well-versed at all about "inner product" as a terminology. Will educate myself about the same and try to understand what you are trying to say.
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Sorry for the pedantry, but the article seems to suggest that all three concepts are equally well generalizations of vector space, and maybe this is not so good.
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Notice how the references are often to the very first pages of some book, highlighting how strongly these assertions fall under the rubric "not-challengeable".
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Presently none of these articles is a redirect. I suggest to merge them into the second one, and to redirect the first one either to the merged article or to
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combination that is equal to zero" has little resemblance to the usual definition, according to which a set of vectors is linearly independent if there is
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and maybe others). The article currently has, IMO, a fair amount of citations overall, and it would be pointless to just add 20 more on generic grounds.
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Do we have to write the homogeneous differential solutions in a "linear equation" section? It seems more difficult to comprehend, and are those related?
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As I understand the word "generalization" in math, one says that objects of type A generalize objects of type B if certain A-objects are B-objects. So:
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I'll do the work in the section on "Related topics and properties". It has some awkward list that can still be improved. Such works are in my sandbox.
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paragraphs are not plot summaries, or somewhat backgrounds to describe the highly technical topics. Should I added the citation-tag in this case?
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Thanks for telling me what I like to do with my free time. As it happens, I quite like doing this. I apologise if you find that objectionable
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without knowing any mathematical definition of the vector space to which they belong. So, there is a need of two different articles. However,
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648:), as it concerns usages relative to classical (Euclidean) geometry. This includes usage in physics, and specially in mechanics. Presently,
2324:. This cannnot appear in the definition since not all bases are finite, and many vector spaces do not have a given basis. For example, the
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658:. Expanding it as a stand alone article could allow explaining more clearly the relationship between the content of the two other articles.
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There's certainly more pages about vectors than there should be, I'd like to see something merged into something. I'd suggest combining
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why don't you try to add some sources instead of spending all of your time demanding that other people jump through made up hoops. –
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1625:"Arguing about whether it ticks off some boxes on a made up checklist (a poor proxy for article quality) is a total waste of time."
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You partially reverted the edit, but it could also mean that you deleted more citations to be added. Can you please add them up?
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these articles get cleaned up, then put some skin into the game. Put a few hours or weeks into sourcing each article yourself,
1311:. Precision is mathematics is expected, and this hitch of imprecision might have led to confusion. Reference has been made to
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1631:), so I really cannot see why you should care if other people decide to jump when I ask. Some have, many won't—life goes on.
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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Counterexample help understanding just as much as examples. Sometimes more. It certainly would be helpful for me.
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I don't think you understand. "Magnitude and direction" are only meaningful in inner product spaces, like for
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on the vectors. Inclusion of zero for scalar multiplication annihilates the vector space to the zero vector.
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Some see-below links are tagged with clarity. I cannot find where the see-below links are redirected to.
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it is simply true. It may be more correct to say that "vector space" is generalized by the concept of
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Therefore, one talks often of vectors without specifying the vector space to which they belong.
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with the reals as domain form a vector space for which no basis can be explicitly described.
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I have removed these, they didn't really add any value (even if they would have worked).
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an affine space, but it is not the case that certain affine spaces are vector spaces.
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This 2008 listing contains significant amounts of uncited material, far beyond what
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instances of claims / statements you think require additional sources. What is the
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Incidentally, XOR was not the only one impacted by that GAR; its proposer was also
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The definition erroneously said there are two binary operations, one of which is
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I think the discussion there takes so little space that this seems OK to me.
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would deserve a major edit for being better adapted to this sort of readers.
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to be one page that introduces vectors as a general concept, and keep
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it is perfectly correct to say that modules generalize vector spaces.
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Affine spaces do not generalize vector spaces; any vector space
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Vector addition and other operations in vector component format
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non-trivial linear combination of those vectors that equal 0.
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require one set, but scalar multiplication starts with two:
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The main motivation for having two article is the sentence
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Hi, It seems to me that this page covers the same topic as
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On the worth of the GAR process and participating in it
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lists merely? I do think these should be removed, IMO
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I'm not sure what you mean. This is an article about
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2139:: I suggest we all spend our time on better things.
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to determine whether its use and function meets the
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of a vector bundle, and not by vector bundle itself.
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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.
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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.
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1623:. You have spoken on the worth of the GA process (
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1788:Done. But need more sources and some copyedits.
1555:nominated and reviewed the GA for the first time
2373:Knowledge level-4 vital articles in Mathematics
2073:so I reiterate my request to please name a few
1587:This is all easily verifiable basic material. @
1287:Scalar multiplication is not a binary operation
200:If it no longer meets these criteria, you can
985:A summary of the conclusions reached follows.
437:A summary of the conclusions reached follows.
403:This page has archives. Sections older than
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1319:at this level assumes much of the reader. —
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1571:FYI I notified both on their talk already.
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1334:Please, read the third paragraph of
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2274:Nevermind. I will added it later.
2153:Thank you very much for your work
1269:what this article is getting at.--
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1998:: please give an update on where
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2182:The discussion above is closed.
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644:, (presently a redirect to
332:of this article appears in
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2314:06:56, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
2238:themselves are preserved.
952:14:28, 24 March 2020 (UTC)
281:Featured article candidate
2398:Mathematics good articles
1157:00:59, 24 June 2023 (UTC)
1046:"Generalizations" section
876:{\displaystyle (\times )}
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185:Mathematics good articles
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2184:Please do not modify it.
1432:Please do not modify it.
1400:page 4, Internet Archive
1396:Geometric Algebra (book)
1135:redirects for discussion
1117:Redirects for discussion
1039:Please do not modify it.
1003:19:17, 10 May 2022 (UTC)
979:Please do not modify it.
961:Please do not modify it.
431:Please do not modify it.
152:project's priority scale
2393:Knowledge good articles
2353:GA-Class vital articles
109:WikiProject Mathematics
1315:since introduction of
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851:
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651:Euclidean vector space
631:Euclidean vector space
563:Euclidean vector space
410:Lowercase sigmabot III
2326:real valued functions
2159:~~ AirshipJungleman29
2104:~~ AirshipJungleman29
2038:~~ AirshipJungleman29
1835:~~ AirshipJungleman29
1719:~~ AirshipJungleman29
1696:dragging it to GAR. —
1679:~~ AirshipJungleman29
1633:~~ AirshipJungleman29
1573:~~ AirshipJungleman29
1532:~~ AirshipJungleman29
1508:~~ AirshipJungleman29
1293:scalar multiplication
1130:Abstract vector space
1113:Abstract vector space
1021:broad-concept article
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443:no consensus to merge
191:good article criteria
36:level-4 vital article
1390:is the word used by
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502:displacement vectors
243:Good article nominee
132:mathematics articles
1139:redirect guidelines
1133:has been listed at
441:Closed as there is
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2071:AirshipJungleman29
2052:AirshipJungleman29
2034:Descartes' theorem
1996:AirshipJungleman29
1849:AirshipJungleman29
1675:considerably jaded
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1497:Most recent review
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312:Good article
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286:Not promoted
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195:please do so
183:
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179:Vector space
178:
148:Top-priority
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107:
73:Top‑priority
51:WikiProjects
34:
1869:Thank you!
1453:visual edit
1388:Composition
1271:Jasper Deng
1234:Jasper Deng
1222:Jasper Deng
1067:total space
1025:fgnievinski
828:. Further,
822:Binary tree
262:Peer review
123:Mathematics
114:mathematics
70:Mathematics
2347:Categories
2276:Dedhert.Jr
2258:Dedhert.Jr
2225:Dedhert.Jr
2197:Dedhert.Jr
2119:WP:BLUESKY
2057:Dedhert.Jr
2030:WP:BLUESKY
2004:Dedhert.Jr
1961:Dedhert.Jr
1931:Dedhert.Jr
1897:Dedhert.Jr
1857:Dedhert.Jr
1790:Dedhert.Jr
1772:Dedhert.Jr
1765:Some works
1559:Dedhert.Jr
1392:Emil Artin
1019:, so that
189:under the
2191:Section 2
2133:jacobolus
1943:I agree!
1664:jacobolus
1652:jacobolus
1621:jacobolus
1593:jacobolus
1545:Pinging @
857:also has
39:is rated
2330:D.Lazard
2272:Felix QW
2254:Felix QW
2240:Felix QW
2221:Felix QW
2206:Felix QW
2075:specific
1374:D.Lazard
1355:misnomer
1340:D.Lazard
1172:Ndhananj
1097:D.Lazard
1075:Gumshoe2
995:Felix QW
931:Headbomb
904:D.Lazard
664:D.Lazard
567:D.Lazard
518:D.Lazard
453:Felix QW
405:365 days
355:Archives
267:Reviewed
203:reassess
41:GA-class
2100:WP:CALC
1974:spaces.
1524:WP:CALC
1505:: Kept.
1476:history
1457:history
1443:Article
1404:Rgdboer
1394:in his
1359:Rgdboer
1321:Rgdboer
1214:general
1149:Hildeoc
1059:defines
612:Ramzuiv
479:Ramzuiv
330:summary
226:Process
150:on the
2024:, the
1715:WP:GAN
1694:before
1668:WP:VPR
1503:Result
1274:(talk)
1257:R0ck$
1242:R0ck$
1225:(talk)
1208:R0ck$
1192:R0ck$
746:where
248:Listed
229:Result
47:scale.
2322:basis
1549:and @
1485:Watch
1094:Fixed
583:. --
547:. --
448:into
28:This
2334:talk
2310:talk
2280:talk
2262:talk
2244:talk
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2163:talk
2145:talk
2135:and
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2069:OK,
2061:talk
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2012:talk
1983:talk
1965:talk
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1553:who
1551:Ozob
1536:talk
1512:talk
1472:edit
1449:edit
1408:talk
1402:. —
1378:talk
1363:talk
1344:talk
1325:talk
1307:and
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824:and
780:and
668:talk
616:talk
601:and
589:talk
571:talk
553:talk
522:talk
508:and
483:talk
457:talk
305:Kept
223:Date
2020:Hi
1851:, @
1655:(t)
1596:(t)
1267:not
585:JBL
549:JBL
142:Top
2349::
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2312:)
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2231:)
2212:)
2202:no
2165:)
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