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defending a Master's thesis on
Skinner's philosophical position, and so I am pretty rusty. However, I am pleased to see a piece of work which gives a detailed description of Skinner's efforts on this subject, as almost every thing I have ever seen on this subject simply assumes that Chomsky had demolished it. I agree with the writer of this article, (and with MacCorquodale,) that Chomsky did not adequately understand the language of behaviorism, and that he did not appreciate the scope of what Skinner was doing: -- that Skinner was not just attempting to reformulate the subject matter of grammar. I would look forward to interaction with others who are interested in this topic. My master's thesis was called "B.F. Skinner's Concept of Mind" (1974) and it is archived on microfiche at the University of Calgary, Canada. I don't know how hard it is to get access to a readable copy, so if anyone wants to read it, I would undertake to provide access. It was written before wordprocessors (!) and the style is not like current academic writing -- I had been reading Gilbert Ryle at the time, and I used a similar style of discussion. However, I stand by the conclusions and the arguments, which were that Skinner's and Ryle's views of 'mental' phenomena were essentially the same, and able to be 'translated' back and forth fairly easily.
599:
2011. The fact that there are now 'daughter pages' and that the content of those pages has been removed from this article has resulted in fewer contextual examples, and so there is less context to frame the remaining content. Some of the places where the phrase "functional analysis" is used would be improved if it was made clear that what is being described is the probability of a speaker uttering (emitting) a linguistic phrase. Many people do not associate predictions and probability with the word "functional", which
Skinner borrowed from its mathematical context. "Functional" is too easily associated with "functionalism." If a reader was not fluent in behavioural terminology, this article would be pretty well opaque. The author of the daughter pages (who obviously has a very good understanding of this subject matter,) might consider simply moving them back to this article, under section headings. Some Knowledge (XXG) articles should be long and detailed, and use several sets of explanatory language with explanations of what technical vocabulary means, so that such articles can provide a comprehensive portrait of the subject.
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606:), where it could be searched by its title or by my name. The landmark work of Gilbert Ryle was "The Concept of Mind" (1949) and it is adequately summarized in my thesis, so that Ryle's position can be understood from reading that thesis. It essentially explains how Skinner's quite unique language of 'functional analysis' can be 'translated' into the philosophical version of 'ordinary language' which Ryle used in his published work.
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419:* This article has no or few images. Please see if there are any free use images that fall under the Knowledge (XXG):Image use policy and fit under one of the Knowledge (XXG):Image copyright tags that can be uploaded. To upload images on Knowledge (XXG), go to Special:Upload; to upload non-fair use images on the Wikimedia Commons, go to commons:special:upload.
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1048:"An energetic and strong 'Chomsky!' forms the basis for inferring the strength of the response as opposed to a weak, brief 'Chomsky'....Repetition - 'Chomsky! Chomsky! Chomsky!' may be emitted and used as an indication of relative strength compared to the speedy and/or energetic emission of 'Chomsky!'."
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The sub-section should be fixed, but certainly not deleted, since
Chomsky's review is considered a semi-classic essay within the field of linguistics, and is symbolic of the fact that the relationship between psychology and linguistics (in the U.S. at least) changed to be very different in the 1960s
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This article was essentially a bit of
Chomsky propaganda before I rewrote it (more than 2 years ago I believe, look at the early versions if you want a laugh). I have no active plans to support this page, but I might do so (in 2012). I was thinking of working on another page. There's alot of verbal
1054:"An energetic and strong 'Kripke!' forms the basis for inferring the strength of the response as opposed to a weak, brief 'Kripke'....Repetition - 'Kripke! Kripke! Kripke!' may be emitted and used as an indication of relative strength compared to the speedy and/or energetic emission of 'Kripke!'."
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I tried to fix it with a quote from a source. The material I deleted could be relevant to attempting to explain that
Skinner's methods have some value for certain sub-areas of linguistics (such as pragmatics or discourse conventions), but it did nothing to address the claim that Skinner had very
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Addendum: It is now
September 21, 2017, and I (Janice Vian,) have just re-read this article. A lot has been done, and what is written here is coherent and correct, but generally speaking, I feel that the actual content of Skinner's work on verbal behaviour is less accessible now than it was in
581:
I have just read this article, on
October 28, 2011. Given the way the article appeared to be in revision, I am surprised to find that the last edits seem to be at least two years old. I was looking forward to helping edit and clarify it, but I last read "Verbal Behavior" in 1974, just before
760:
addresses
Chomsky's review. This subsection contains two paragraphs. The first describes what the book Verbal Behaviour is about, a subject that should be adequately covered in the body of the article and not requiring repeating in each section/sub-section and finishes:
734:, the last sentence begins with the words "Combing audiences". Wouldn't that more correctly be written as "Combining audiences"? Note that the previous sentence starts out with "The issue of multiple audiences ". Plus, the whole section is entitled "Multiple causation".
528:* As done in WP:FOOTNOTE, footnotes usually are located right after a punctuation mark (as recommended by the CMS, but not mandatory), such that there is no space in between. For example, the sun is larger than the moon . is usually written as the sun is larger than the moon.
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I think I just worked out what the problem is with this page. The article is about the book Verbal
Behaviour instead of being about verbal behaviour as a topic or theory. Treating it as an article about a theory would probably make it a lot more sensible.
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The example doesn't make it clear that it is the autoclitic "I think" I am sick that is operational, rather it appears to be simply a softened version of the mand "I am sick!" which, for someone not familiar with mands, would be slightly less than clear.
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I have added Mand(psychology) and Tact(psychology) as daughter pages. I have merged two short sections, and I have deleted two sections which weren't as clearly relevant. More needs to be done still. Maybe move autoclitics into its own daughter page
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This example, "I think I am sick" is not a mand - rather it's an autoclitic, tact, "I am sick functions as a label, the tact. Where as the, "I think functions as a descriptor for the listener. This would serve as multiple control - autoclitic tact.
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In the "General problems" section, why was the name "Chomsky" chosen out of all the words in the language? If it is merely used as an example, many other words could be used. There seems to be an intention to inject the name into the article for a
459:* Per Knowledge (XXG):Manual of Style (headings), headings generally should not repeat the title of the article. For example, if the article was Ferdinand Magellan, instead of using the heading ==Magellan's journey==, use ==Journey==.
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as a field of study may be a notable topic in its own right. Really, this is less of a proposal to split and more a proposal to write a new article. I've made a note to myself to write one, but feel free to beat me to it.
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The verbal behavior that is evident in the repeated use of
Chomsky's name should be explainable, according to Behaviorism, without the mentalistic mention of such words such as "chosen," "intention," "reason," and
453:* Per Knowledge (XXG):Manual of Style (headings), headings generally do not start with articles ('the', 'a(n)'). For example, if there was a section called ==The Biography==, it should be changed to ==Biography==.
413:* The lead is for summarizing the rest of the article, and should not introduce new topics not discussed in the rest of the article, as per WP:LEAD. Please ensure that the lead adequately summarizes the article.
493:* Per WP:WIAFA, this article's table of contents (ToC) may be too long - consider shrinking it down by merging short sections or using a proper system of daughter pages as per Knowledge (XXG):Summary style.
834:
As for the impact of Chomsky's review, some have claimed that there was no substantive detailed behaviorist reply until eleven years afterwards, and that Skinner never wrote another academic book...
789:
On the face of it this subsection as it stands should be deleted until it can be replaced, for instance by a simple statement that Chomsky wrote an influential review criticizing Skinner's book.
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562:
Hi all, I brought in the nice table from the German article on this subject. Maybe someone could go to the original citation and get the actual original English, rather than my retranslation?
35:
545:* Please ensure that the article has gone through a thorough copyediting so that it exemplifies some of Knowledge (XXG)'s best work. See also User:Tony1/How to satisfy Criterion 1a.
410:* The lead of this article may be too long, or may contain too many paragraphs. Please follow guidelines at WP:LEAD; be aware that the lead should adequately summarize the article.
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Chomsky thought that a functionalist explanation restricting itself to questions of communicative performance ignored important questions (Chomsky, Language and Mind, 1968)
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Sr+ relationships but it is common. The page has a nice layout, not too much emphasis &c. It would be a good model for this page I think. Will have to work on it. --
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Damn it's good. Nice tables. I am not a fan of the "ABC" model (which I am inferring since I don't speak german) as I don't feel it conveys the richness of the MO-: -->
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416:* Consider adding more links to the article; per Knowledge (XXG):Manual of Style (links) and Knowledge (XXG):Build the web, create links to relevant articles.
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Providing several excellent examples is a very good method to enhance discrimination of these subtle points and I think this should be continued and improved.
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The subsection then concludes noting that Skinner thought Chomsky influential and that interest in Skinner is growing, both points seeming irrelevant.
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My membership in the Chomsky Fan Club expired last February. However, as a current and active member of the Kripke Fan club, I propose the following:
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Daughter pages would be ideal for the major types of VB also a large expansion of the Chomsky et al criticism of VB and responses would be nice too --
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The second of the two paragraphs states that Chomsky's criticisms were influential. but that others disagreed because, to paraphrase:
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This page needs a major clean-up. If I'm not careful I'm going to end up re-doing the whole thing from scratch. 20 June 2013
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Corrected Josh.Pritchard.DBA (talk) 21:15, 5 January 2008 (UTC) Could this be a reference to the link in stimulus control? --
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The questions are not provided and the review written in 1959 is only described by the views Chomsky expressed in 1968.
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little new and interesting to offer with respect to the core issues of linguistics of most interest to many linguists.
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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
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behavior research in the jouranl The Analysis of Verbal Behavior which probably could use some incorporation.
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In this way, I get to see the name of my revered favorite displayed with exclamation points in the article.
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776:. Whatever one's views of Chomsky it's hard to imagine him not saying something more closely argued.
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You may wish to browse through User:AndyZ/Suggestions for further ideas. Thanks, Ruhrfisch : -->
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Corrected Josh.Pritchard.DBA (talk) 21:15, 5 January 2008 (UTC) Corrected some more --
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and later from what it was in the 1950s and before. See my previous comments at
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My 1974 Master's thesis is quite brief, and is now available on Research Gate (
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CorrectedJosh.Pritchard.DBA (talk) 01:45, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
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This might well be just a TYPO or something minor like that.
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When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the
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And it's 2013 and I'll probably give this page a few edits.
39:. It may contain ideas you can use to improve this article.
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for additional information. I made the following changes:
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Talk:Verbal Behavior/Archive_1#Larger context of book
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1028:"purposive."
1009:173.72.63.96
1005:
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533:Michaelrayw2
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387:Michaelrayw2
381:
358:— Preceding
354:
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221:Books portal
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125:
69:WikiProjects
34:
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1069:Hans Wurst
1019:Hans Wurst
922:Sourcecheck
330:autoclitics
31:peer review
29:received a
1104:Categories
1040:Hans Wurst
992:Report bug
141:Psychology
132:Psychology
88:Psychology
981:Cheers.--
975:this tool
968:this tool
550:<: -->
303:Archive 1
836:AnonMoos
814:AnonMoos
705:unsigned
683:unsigned
635:unsigned
422:Fixed,
383:Sd-: -->
360:unsigned
291:Archives
36:archived
1007:reason.
908:checked
865:my edit
662:florkle
384:R-: -->
343:florkle
168:on the
59:C-class
916:failed
531:Fixed
65:scale.
1088:Daask
812:. --
564:Canjo
439:Fixed
253:Books
193:Books
1092:talk
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912:true
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238:and
949:RfC
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160:Low
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