1367:). The history section may become long enough that it should be split off into a separate article with a new shorter summary written in its place. Also, a merge does not seem necessary when the hatnotes, intros and history sections for the two articles can make it clear what happened 20 years ago even if the new website announcement tries to minimize these events. If we do keep the articles separate, there is still clean-up work to do – the history needs more citations and pre-2003 honours (if runner-up is actually an honour) should be cited and moved. What the announcement did make clear is the "one club, two teams" theme and gives three definitions, a club: York RLFC, a men's team: Knights, and a women's team: Valkyrie. If the article is to be named York RLFC it should aim to cover all aspects of the club even if there is only a smaller section on the Valkyrie (with links to a main article once written), but as it covers only the men's team having Knights as part of the article name provides a more specific description of the contents.
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link, we can reference that the club sees itself as a continuation of the 19th century club, but we can't ignore facts to the contrary. We can reference it up front in the York
Knights page, the York RLFC redirect can go to York Knights, but we can't go against standards and facts, but we can certainly reference a position put forward by the York Knights.
1056:. What you have there already is York Wasps, who are a wholly separate entity to the York City Knights, but ultimately a predecessor. I'm going to say I'd hold off an a move until those York clubs could be rationalised. The quick and easy fix is to just drop the City bit from the title, once the club website is back up and running.
997:; however, we don't see anything firm yet. A merge with another article is discussed, and as we know, that is a separate conversation from move requests. As is usual with a no-consensus outcome, editors can come up with new arguments, strengthen old ones and try again in a few months to garner consensus, preferably for a
905:; however, we don't see anything firm yet. A merge with another article is discussed, and as we know, that is a separate conversation from move requests. As is usual with a no-consensus outcome, editors can come up with new arguments, strengthen old ones and try again in a few months to garner consensus, preferably for a
1840:) seems to favour York Knights over York RLFC - since "York City Knights unveil rebrand for men's and women's teams" (14 October) the website has posted articles with titles using the terms "York Knights" 20 times, "York RLFC Valkyrie" once, "York Valkyrie" 5 times, "York RLFC" once and "York RFLC Knights" once
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York
Knights allows this project to move forward. York RLFC if it didn't already, now needs to be a disambiguation page as both the York Knights and York Valkyrie sit under that umbrella. Someone closer to the subject needs to try and rationalise the history that is known, and what is claimed against
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and the many previous examples of clubs re-naming themselves in recent years. Can we please agree just to move this even as a temporary solution? It's absurd to keep this article under the incorrect old name for months while the same arguments go round in circles. If they are referred to as something
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Just because the
Knights claim an unbroken lineage back to the original York FC doesn't mean we have to accept it unless the sources are there to say so. We can mention, as it's verifiable, that the Knights do claim an unbroken lineage but we don't have to say that there is an unbroken lineage unless
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What the club have announced is that it's going to be called York RLFC but that the men's team will be marketed as York
Knights and the women's team as York Valkyrie (note singular, not plural). On that basis I'd go with calling the article York Knights and be quite pleased that the women's team has
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Thanks for the new link. Yeah that's a bit of a weird one. What it does do is show the claimed continuation through from 1868. To me that makes one continuous club, but because we're in the middle of the biggest exposure the sport has had for years, I don't have the time to help in combining the two
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York
Knights and York Valkyrie would be the names I expect most fans/news articles will use to refer to the teams, so to me it would make sense to name the articles to match these and have York R.L.F.C. as a DAB or redirect depending on if the Knights/Wasps articles were merged. The club history on
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A merge would impact the quality of the article needing significant work to put right, the international caps section from the Wasps would be incomplete/need updating as we currently have no equivalent in the
Knights article. The Knights seasons section would go from being complete to missing over
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ended in 2002. Other sports keep phoenix clubs as wholly separate pages. If an explanatory note is added to the York
Knights page, but the York Wasps remains, with their history there, then we would fit in with other sports. I'm not sure we can ignore facts that are out there. We can reference the
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I'm running the new
Knights website and can provide new images, historical photos, squad lists or indeed pretty much any info you may need and I am authorised to do so. I can't however get to grips with Wikicode, although I've made a couple of updates. If you'd like to contact me regarding getting
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They are sometimes used where they are not really needed but they can be helpful to quickly identify teams in league/cup articles and less of a problem for accessibility than some of the coloured text/background combinations used in the nrl team articles. For the York teams I have created and had
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York City for pre-2017 knights. I suggest for consistency that the icons for the team should be changed to match each other (with the exception of the blue icon – for use when referring to the team during seasons in which this kit was worn) and would like to establish a consensus for what to use:
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A phoenix club is by definition a new club. Leigh
Centurions becoming Leigh Leopards, was a nice easy change, but given that the old York club went to the wall, it ended there, and given that York Wasps were a name change of York RLFC it seems that there should be work done to maintain a credible
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now claiming ownership of the original title. I'm not against the move, I'd just say with all the page moves, merges, etc with the 2021 RLWC, it makes sense for a straight swap, and a consensus-based agreement that very well could see York City
Knights ending up at York RLFC. If people have time
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Number one appears to off the table as that would necessitate an immediate merge, and by the above is ruled out anyway as the new umbrella term for the two clubs, one twenty years old, and one much younger. Either of two avoids an immediate reconciliation and number 3 fits with most other clubs
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But the phoenix club are now claiming to be a continuous club. York RLFC links to York Wasps as they were known as that before they added the Wasps. I'm not sure how we could entertain a move to York RLFC without addressing a merger. York Knights cuts out that merger conversation, parks that
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If we used 1 or 2 I would prefer to use RLFC as this is how it appears on the website and logo. As noted in the previous move request I think that as it is an article primarily about the men’s team it should include knights in the name, so my preference is for either option 2a or 3.
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For what it's worth, I think a merger with the Wasps article should be discussed separately. We should be careful not to rewrite history just because the new club has suddenly claimed to be the same as the pre-2002 York twenty years later.
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entities into one. Others could read it differently to me, but on a logo front and name front they are York RLFC Knights, which doesn't really fit with any other clubs mascot names, ie does the afterthought of Knights even get included.
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I agree sense to have it under York RLFC for now. I’d also suggest merging the York Wasps page as the new club is considered the same as the old one. Bradford Bulls/Northern have gone bust a few times and it’s all in one page
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that seemed to be substantially duplicated from the two wikipedia articles. It will be interesting to see if the new website says anything different about the 2002 continuation of rugby/establishment of a new club issue.
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either one of the existing icons, creating a new flag icon in amber and black (top-left/bottom-right) (this would be my preference- and is also the colours used on the club website), or any other suggestions.
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120 years, and there would be a similar issue with the kit sponsors and manufacturers section (although I would prefer to see this replaced with a section on historical kits or club identity – see for example
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the standards that are in place across wikipedia for phoenix clubs. I'd be happy with references and see also's but to me the York Knights are a twenty year old club with strong links going back alot further.
1444:. I would have no problem with removing the icons altogether, although this would probably need to be discussed on the project talk page, as use of team colour icons is fairly widespread on RL articles.
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Assessed as "Start" standard with "High" importance. A section on amateur RL in the area may be useful, as would some photographs (particularly any from previous eras) and a section on notable players.
1177:(for now), as that is the official name of the club. If the media does end up referring to the club by a different name then it can be revisited, but we shouldn't speculate before then, per policy.
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during a RLWC in this country or they support York, and they want to put in the effort and do right by the York City Knights, York Wasps and a new title, then fair play to them, they can go for it.
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I think the previous agreed position was to move it to York Knights because there was alot of work needed to merge, rationalise and then reference out two clubs that have been two clubs, with the
1440:
To be honest, I have never liked using the team icons, partly because of examples like this where a team's traditional colours aren't well defined, but also because using them is against
1256:
conversation for another day and allows the new club to have a proper link at the York Knights page, and then recombine or keep a separate history with whatever the consensus decides.
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York Knights makes sense to me as an accurate reflection of what the club has now become, and rules out the confusion over previous entities, at least in the article title.
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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a
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from 2002 to 2022) are an English professional rugby league club based in York. The men’s team are the
717:. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit
553:. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit
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http://web.archive.org/web/20110404113338/http://www.yorkcityknights.co.uk:80/c/york-city-knights-news
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after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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See below much good discussion with some support, perhaps growing temporary resolution to
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See below much good discussion with some support, perhaps growing temporary resolution to
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According to FreeBMD, the births of two people named F. W. Oliver were registered in the
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http://web.archive.org/web/20110215080940/http://www.yorkcityknights.co.uk:80/fans-forum
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Last edited at 12:01, 16 October 2007 (UTC). Substituted at 11:05, 30 April 2016 (UTC)
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If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with
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If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with
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are an English professional men’s rugby league team based in York. They represent
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The Squad needs updating to the 2009 squad, info can be found on club website
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the Knights article up to date, please email: dsom 73 (at) hot mail . com
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Is there any copyright on the images and text or are they available on a
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If we postpone any discussion of merges here are some suggestions:
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name change. Thanks and kudos to editors for your input; everyone
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name change. Thanks and kudos to editors for your input; everyone
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, you can visit the
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Whichever title is used could have a similar intro such as:
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When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the
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if and when an article about the women's team is created.
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for additional information. I made the following changes:
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for additional information. I made the following changes:
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http://www.yorkcityknights.co.uk/c/york-city-knights-news
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from 2002 to 2022) which also has a women’s team called
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a different name so we don't have to go with the chunky
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Requires addition of inline references using one of the
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where the men's team are branded as York RLFC Knights.
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456:(F. W. Oliver) was educated, but not born, in York
1838:https://www.yorkpress.co.uk/sport/yorkcityknights/
1713:a) York RFLC Knights or b) York R.L.F.C. Knights
1787:dropping the RLFC bit when they have a mascot.
484:, and are posted here for posterity. Following
759:This message was posted before February 2018.
629:This message was posted before February 2018.
478:The comment(s) below were originally left at
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425:, the county in which Hull resides, and the
601:http://www.yorkcityknights.co.uk/fans-forum
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437:district), and Frederick William Oliver (
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114:Knowledge:WikiProject Rugby league
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1912:Low-importance Yorkshire articles
1902:WikiProject Rugby league articles
1892:Start-Class rugby league articles
713:. Please take a moment to review
549:. Please take a moment to review
486:several discussions in past years
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1874:The discussion above is closed.
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706:Hello fellow Wikipedians,
660:(last update: 5 June 2024)
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481:Talk:York Knights/Comments
418:are they the same person?
258:project's importance scale
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1405:
1399:
1276:Hunslet R.L.F.C.
1110:
1025:
1021:
1013:
980:
976:
969:
933:
929:
921:
888:
884:
870:
863:
848:
825:
816:
789:
788:
767:
755:
695:
686:
659:
658:
637:
625:
578:
506:
500:
491:
490:
483:
439:birth registered
431:birth registered
394:in 1909 against
362:? Best Regards.
358:, ever play for
307:
240:
239:
236:
233:
230:
196:
194:Yorkshire portal
191:
190:
180:
173:
172:
167:
159:
152:
122:
121:
118:
115:
112:
87:
80:
79:
74:
66:
59:
42:
36:
35:
27:
21:
1932:
1931:
1927:
1926:
1925:
1923:
1922:
1921:
1882:
1881:
1880:
1879:
1687:
1686:
1674:
1666:
1654:WP:OTHEROPTIONS
1631:
1627:
1615:
1606:
1580:
1572:
1560:WP:OTHEROPTIONS
1537:
1495:
1485:
1392:
1387:
1386:
1194:Northern Wonder
1108:
1032:
1031:
1019:
1011:
978:
974:
962:
953:
927:
919:
886:
844:
834:
819:
814:
782:
775:have permission
765:
749:
719:this simple FaQ
704:
689:
684:
652:
645:have permission
635:
619:
572:
555:this simple FaQ
540:
504:
498:
479:
476:
384:A player named
382:
352:
290:
277:
237:
234:
231:
228:
227:
192:
185:
165:
136:High-importance
119:
116:
113:
110:
109:
73:High‑importance
72:
43:on Knowledge's
40:
23:
22:
15:
12:
11:
5:
1930:
1928:
1920:
1919:
1914:
1909:
1904:
1899:
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1884:
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1873:
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1831:
1830:
1803:
1802:
1749:
1748:
1726:
1725:
1718:
1717:
1714:
1711:
1685:
1667:P.I. Ellsworth
1636:
1628:
1624:
1623:
1616:
1607:
1593:
1592:
1573:P.I. Ellsworth
1542:
1533:
1522:
1512:
1511:
1508:
1507:
1506:
1492:requested move
1486:
1484:
1481:
1480:
1479:
1478:
1477:
1412:Wellington or
1391:
1388:
1380:
1360:
1359:
1358:
1357:
1356:
1355:
1354:
1353:
1352:
1351:
1350:
1349:
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1347:
1346:
1345:
1168:
1167:
1166:
1165:
1164:
1163:
1162:
1161:
1160:
1159:
1158:
1157:
1104:
1030:
1012:P.I. Ellsworth
983:
975:
971:
970:
963:
954:
940:
939:
920:P.I. Ellsworth
891:
882:
871:
861:
860:
857:
856:
855:
841:requested move
835:
833:
830:
809:
808:
801:
734:
733:
725:Added archive
703:
700:
679:
678:
671:
604:
603:
595:Added archive
593:
585:Added archive
583:
569:
561:Added archive
539:
536:
530:
529:
522:
521:
518:
513:Copy edit for
511:
508:
475:
472:
416:1904–05 season
390:won a cap for
381:
375:
351:
346:Ever play for
344:
343:
342:
276:
273:
270:
269:
266:
265:
262:
261:
254:Low-importance
250:
244:
243:
241:
198:
197:
181:
169:
168:
166:Low‑importance
160:
148:
147:
144:
143:
132:
126:
125:
123:
88:
76:
75:
67:
55:
54:
48:
37:
24:
14:
13:
10:
9:
6:
4:
3:
2:
1929:
1918:
1915:
1913:
1910:
1908:
1905:
1903:
1900:
1898:
1895:
1893:
1890:
1889:
1887:
1877:
1866:
1862:
1858:
1853:
1852:
1851:
1847:
1843:
1839:
1835:
1834:
1833:
1832:
1829:
1825:
1821:
1816:
1812:
1811:York R.L.F.C.
1808:
1805:
1804:
1801:
1797:
1793:
1790:
1785:
1784:
1783:
1782:
1778:
1774:
1768:
1766:
1765:York Valkyrie
1762:
1758:
1754:
1746:
1745:
1744:
1742:
1741:York Valkyrie
1738:
1734:
1730:
1723:
1722:
1721:
1715:
1712:
1709:
1708:
1707:
1704:
1703:
1699:
1695:
1691:
1683:
1679:
1677:
1671:
1670:
1669:
1662:
1659:
1655:
1651:
1647:
1646:
1641:
1640:
1634:
1621:
1617:
1614:
1612:
1605:
1604:
1601:
1598:
1591:
1589:
1585:
1583:
1577:
1576:
1575:
1568:
1565:
1561:
1557:
1553:
1552:
1547:
1546:
1540:
1531:
1527:
1523:
1520:
1516:
1515:
1510:
1505:
1503:
1498:
1493:
1488:
1487:
1482:
1476:
1472:
1468:
1463:
1457:
1456:
1455:
1451:
1447:
1443:
1439:
1438:
1437:
1436:
1432:
1428:
1422:
1416:
1410:
1404:
1398:
1389:
1384:
1379:
1378:
1374:
1370:
1366:
1344:
1340:
1336:
1329:
1328:
1327:
1323:
1319:
1314:
1313:
1312:
1308:
1304:
1299:
1298:
1297:
1293:
1289:
1285:
1281:
1280:primary topic
1277:
1273:
1269:
1268:
1267:
1263:
1259:
1254:
1253:
1252:
1248:
1244:
1240:
1239:
1238:
1234:
1230:
1225:
1224:
1223:
1219:
1215:
1210:
1206:
1205:
1204:
1203:
1199:
1195:
1189:
1188:
1184:
1180:
1176:
1175:York R.L.F.C.
1172:
1156:
1152:
1148:
1143:
1138:
1137:
1136:
1132:
1128:
1124:
1123:
1122:
1118:
1114:
1105:
1102:
1101:
1100:
1096:
1092:
1087:
1086:
1085:
1081:
1077:
1073:
1069:
1068:
1067:
1063:
1059:
1055:
1054:York R.L.F.C.
1051:
1050:
1049:
1048:
1044:
1040:
1036:
1028:
1024:
1022:
1016:
1015:
1014:
1007:
1004:
1000:
996:
992:
991:York R.L.F.C.
988:
987:
986:No consensus.
981:
968:
964:
961:
959:
952:
951:
948:
945:
938:
936:
932:
930:
924:
923:
922:
915:
912:
908:
904:
900:
899:York R.L.F.C.
896:
895:
894:No consensus.
889:
880:
876:
872:
869:
865:
864:
859:
854:
852:
847:
842:
837:
836:
831:
829:
828:
823:
818:
817:
806:
802:
799:
795:
794:
793:
786:
780:
776:
772:
768:
762:
757:
753:
747:
743:
739:
732:
728:
724:
723:
722:
720:
716:
712:
707:
701:
699:
698:
693:
688:
687:
676:
672:
669:
665:
664:
663:
656:
650:
646:
642:
638:
632:
627:
623:
617:
613:
609:
602:
598:
594:
592:
588:
584:
582:
576:
570:
568:
564:
560:
559:
558:
556:
552:
548:
543:
537:
535:
528:
525:
519:
516:
512:
509:
503:
496:
495:
492:
489:
487:
482:
473:
471:
470:
466:
462:
459:Best regards
457:
455:
450:
448:
444:
440:
436:
432:
428:
424:
419:
417:
413:
411:
409:
405:
401:
397:
393:
389:
387:
379:
376:
374:
373:
369:
365:
361:
357:
356:Colin Forsyth
349:
345:
341:
337:
333:
329:
325:
324:
323:
322:
318:
314:
313:86.159.118.27
308:
306:
302:
298:
297:193.61.234.13
294:
287:
286:
283:
274:
259:
255:
249:
246:
245:
242:
225:
224:
219:
218:
213:
209:
208:
203:
202:
195:
189:
184:
182:
179:
175:
174:
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164:
161:
158:
154:
141:
137:
131:
128:
127:
124:
108:
104:
103:
98:
97:
92:
89:
86:
82:
81:
77:
71:
68:
65:
61:
56:
52:
46:
38:
34:
29:
28:
19:
1875:
1806:
1788:
1769:
1760:
1756:
1753:York Knights
1752:
1750:
1737:York Knights
1736:
1732:
1728:
1727:
1719:
1716:York Knights
1705:
1688:
1664:
1663:
1660:
1658:stay healthy
1649:
1645:York Knights
1643:
1637:
1630:
1608:
1603:target title
1599:
1597:source title
1594:
1570:
1569:
1566:
1564:stay healthy
1555:
1551:York Knights
1549:
1543:
1536:
1534:
1509:
1496:
1489:
1406:Castleford,
1393:
1382:
1361:
1209:Phoenix club
1190:
1170:
1169:
1033:
1009:
1008:
1005:
1003:stay healthy
998:
984:
977:
955:
950:target title
946:
944:source title
941:
917:
916:
913:
911:stay healthy
906:
892:
885:
883:
858:
845:
838:
813:
810:
785:source check
764:
758:
745:
741:
737:
735:
708:
705:
683:
680:
655:source check
634:
628:
615:
611:
607:
605:
544:
541:
533:
477:
458:
451:
447:F. W. Oliver
420:
404:F. W. Oliver
386:F. W. Oliver
383:
378:F. W. Oliver
353:
309:
288:
278:
253:
221:
217:project page
215:
205:
201:York Knights
199:
135:
111:Rugby league
100:
94:
91:York Knights
90:
70:Rugby league
51:WikiProjects
1650:at any time
1595:Move logs:
1556:at any time
1502:move review
942:Move logs:
851:move review
752:Sourcecheck
622:Sourcecheck
461:DynamoDegsy
414:during the
406:played for
364:DynamoDegsy
291:—Preceding
282:Tim Fellows
41:Start-class
1886:Categories
1759:(known as
1731:(known as
822:Report bug
692:Report bug
1757:York RLFC
1729:York RLFC
1442:MOS:DECOR
1284:York RLFC
1241:I agree.
995:York RLFC
903:York RLFC
805:this tool
798:this tool
675:this tool
668:this tool
575:dead link
507:templates
398:while at
229:Yorkshire
223:talk page
212:Yorkshire
163:Yorkshire
1842:EdwardUK
1820:J Mo 101
1773:EdwardUK
1694:EdwardUK
1639:Let's go
1545:Let's go
1467:EdwardUK
1446:J Mo 101
1427:EdwardUK
1369:EdwardUK
1288:J Mo 101
1229:J Mo 101
1179:J Mo 101
1147:EdwardUK
999:specific
907:specific
811:Cheers.—
681:Cheers.—
293:unsigned
275:Untitled
107:Join us!
1632:result:
1538:result:
979:result:
887:result:
738:checked
715:my edit
608:checked
579:tag to
551:my edit
524:Keith D
392:England
332:Keith D
328:license
256:on the
138:on the
1857:Fleets
1792:Fleets
1652:under
1558:under
1335:Fleets
1303:Fleets
1258:Fleets
1214:Fleets
1127:Fleets
1091:Fleets
1058:Fleets
746:failed
616:failed
571:Added
515:WP:MOS
47:scale.
1642:with
1548:with
1318:Nthep
1243:Nthep
1113:Nthep
1076:Nthep
1039:Nthep
396:Wales
1861:talk
1846:talk
1824:talk
1813:per
1807:Move
1796:talk
1777:talk
1751:The
1698:talk
1471:talk
1450:talk
1431:talk
1373:talk
1339:talk
1322:talk
1307:talk
1292:talk
1274:and
1262:talk
1247:talk
1233:talk
1218:talk
1198:talk
1183:talk
1171:Move
1151:talk
1131:talk
1117:talk
1095:talk
1080:talk
1062:talk
1043:talk
742:true
612:true
502:Cite
465:talk
443:Hull
435:York
408:Hull
400:York
368:talk
360:York
354:Did
348:York
336:talk
317:talk
301:talk
130:High
1809:to
1675:ed.
1581:ed.
1528:be
1173:to
1020:ed.
993:or
928:ed.
901:or
877:be
779:RfC
756:).
744:or
729:to
649:RfC
626:).
614:or
599:to
589:to
565:to
248:Low
1888::
1863:)
1848:)
1826:)
1798:)
1779:)
1747:Or
1700:)
1672:,
1613:}}
1578:,
1494:.
1473:)
1452:)
1433:)
1375:)
1341:)
1324:)
1309:)
1294:)
1264:)
1249:)
1235:)
1220:)
1200:)
1185:)
1153:)
1133:)
1119:)
1097:)
1082:)
1064:)
1045:)
1017:,
960:}}
925:,
843:.
792:.
787:}}
783:{{
754:}}
750:{{
662:.
657:}}
653:{{
624:}}
620:{{
577:}}
573:{{
505:}}
499:{{
494:.
467:)
449:?
370:)
338:)
319:)
303:)
1859:(
1844:(
1822:(
1794:(
1775:(
1696:(
1661:!
1600:·
1567:!
1469:(
1448:(
1429:(
1371:(
1337:(
1320:(
1305:(
1290:(
1260:(
1245:(
1231:(
1216:(
1196:(
1181:(
1149:(
1129:(
1115:(
1109:]
1093:(
1078:(
1060:(
1041:(
1006:!
947:·
914:!
824:)
820:(
807:.
800:.
694:)
690:(
677:.
670:.
463:(
366:(
350:?
334:(
315:(
299:(
260:.
226:.
142:.
53::
20:)
Text is available under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License. Additional terms may apply.
