1356:). The history section may become long enough that it should be split off into a separate article with a new shorter summary written in its place. Also, a merge does not seem necessary when the hatnotes, intros and history sections for the two articles can make it clear what happened 20 years ago even if the new website announcement tries to minimize these events. If we do keep the articles separate, there is still clean-up work to do – the history needs more citations and pre-2003 honours (if runner-up is actually an honour) should be cited and moved. What the announcement did make clear is the "one club, two teams" theme and gives three definitions, a club: York RLFC, a men's team: Knights, and a women's team: Valkyrie. If the article is to be named York RLFC it should aim to cover all aspects of the club even if there is only a smaller section on the Valkyrie (with links to a main article once written), but as it covers only the men's team having Knights as part of the article name provides a more specific description of the contents.
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link, we can reference that the club sees itself as a continuation of the 19th century club, but we can't ignore facts to the contrary. We can reference it up front in the York
Knights page, the York RLFC redirect can go to York Knights, but we can't go against standards and facts, but we can certainly reference a position put forward by the York Knights.
1045:. What you have there already is York Wasps, who are a wholly separate entity to the York City Knights, but ultimately a predecessor. I'm going to say I'd hold off an a move until those York clubs could be rationalised. The quick and easy fix is to just drop the City bit from the title, once the club website is back up and running.
986:; however, we don't see anything firm yet. A merge with another article is discussed, and as we know, that is a separate conversation from move requests. As is usual with a no-consensus outcome, editors can come up with new arguments, strengthen old ones and try again in a few months to garner consensus, preferably for a
894:; however, we don't see anything firm yet. A merge with another article is discussed, and as we know, that is a separate conversation from move requests. As is usual with a no-consensus outcome, editors can come up with new arguments, strengthen old ones and try again in a few months to garner consensus, preferably for a
1829:) seems to favour York Knights over York RLFC - since "York City Knights unveil rebrand for men's and women's teams" (14 October) the website has posted articles with titles using the terms "York Knights" 20 times, "York RLFC Valkyrie" once, "York Valkyrie" 5 times, "York RLFC" once and "York RFLC Knights" once
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York
Knights allows this project to move forward. York RLFC if it didn't already, now needs to be a disambiguation page as both the York Knights and York Valkyrie sit under that umbrella. Someone closer to the subject needs to try and rationalise the history that is known, and what is claimed against
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and the many previous examples of clubs re-naming themselves in recent years. Can we please agree just to move this even as a temporary solution? It's absurd to keep this article under the incorrect old name for months while the same arguments go round in circles. If they are referred to as something
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Just because the
Knights claim an unbroken lineage back to the original York FC doesn't mean we have to accept it unless the sources are there to say so. We can mention, as it's verifiable, that the Knights do claim an unbroken lineage but we don't have to say that there is an unbroken lineage unless
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What the club have announced is that it's going to be called York RLFC but that the men's team will be marketed as York
Knights and the women's team as York Valkyrie (note singular, not plural). On that basis I'd go with calling the article York Knights and be quite pleased that the women's team has
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Thanks for the new link. Yeah that's a bit of a weird one. What it does do is show the claimed continuation through from 1868. To me that makes one continuous club, but because we're in the middle of the biggest exposure the sport has had for years, I don't have the time to help in combining the two
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York
Knights and York Valkyrie would be the names I expect most fans/news articles will use to refer to the teams, so to me it would make sense to name the articles to match these and have York R.L.F.C. as a DAB or redirect depending on if the Knights/Wasps articles were merged. The club history on
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A merge would impact the quality of the article needing significant work to put right, the international caps section from the Wasps would be incomplete/need updating as we currently have no equivalent in the
Knights article. The Knights seasons section would go from being complete to missing over
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ended in 2002. Other sports keep phoenix clubs as wholly separate pages. If an explanatory note is added to the York
Knights page, but the York Wasps remains, with their history there, then we would fit in with other sports. I'm not sure we can ignore facts that are out there. We can reference the
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I'm running the new
Knights website and can provide new images, historical photos, squad lists or indeed pretty much any info you may need and I am authorised to do so. I can't however get to grips with Wikicode, although I've made a couple of updates. If you'd like to contact me regarding getting
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They are sometimes used where they are not really needed but they can be helpful to quickly identify teams in league/cup articles and less of a problem for accessibility than some of the coloured text/background combinations used in the nrl team articles. For the York teams I have created and had
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York City for pre-2017 knights. I suggest for consistency that the icons for the team should be changed to match each other (with the exception of the blue icon – for use when referring to the team during seasons in which this kit was worn) and would like to establish a consensus for what to use:
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A phoenix club is by definition a new club. Leigh
Centurions becoming Leigh Leopards, was a nice easy change, but given that the old York club went to the wall, it ended there, and given that York Wasps were a name change of York RLFC it seems that there should be work done to maintain a credible
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now claiming ownership of the original title. I'm not against the move, I'd just say with all the page moves, merges, etc with the 2021 RLWC, it makes sense for a straight swap, and a consensus-based agreement that very well could see York City
Knights ending up at York RLFC. If people have time
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Number one appears to off the table as that would necessitate an immediate merge, and by the above is ruled out anyway as the new umbrella term for the two clubs, one twenty years old, and one much younger. Either of two avoids an immediate reconciliation and number 3 fits with most other clubs
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But the phoenix club are now claiming to be a continuous club. York RLFC links to York Wasps as they were known as that before they added the Wasps. I'm not sure how we could entertain a move to York RLFC without addressing a merger. York Knights cuts out that merger conversation, parks that
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If we used 1 or 2 I would prefer to use RLFC as this is how it appears on the website and logo. As noted in the previous move request I think that as it is an article primarily about the men’s team it should include knights in the name, so my preference is for either option 2a or 3.
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For what it's worth, I think a merger with the Wasps article should be discussed separately. We should be careful not to rewrite history just because the new club has suddenly claimed to be the same as the pre-2002 York twenty years later.
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entities into one. Others could read it differently to me, but on a logo front and name front they are York RLFC Knights, which doesn't really fit with any other clubs mascot names, ie does the afterthought of Knights even get included.
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I agree sense to have it under York RLFC for now. I’d also suggest merging the York Wasps page as the new club is considered the same as the old one. Bradford Bulls/Northern have gone bust a few times and it’s all in one page
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that seemed to be substantially duplicated from the two wikipedia articles. It will be interesting to see if the new website says anything different about the 2002 continuation of rugby/establishment of a new club issue.
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either one of the existing icons, creating a new flag icon in amber and black (top-left/bottom-right) (this would be my preference- and is also the colours used on the club website), or any other suggestions.
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120 years, and there would be a similar issue with the kit sponsors and manufacturers section (although I would prefer to see this replaced with a section on historical kits or club identity – see for example
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the standards that are in place across wikipedia for phoenix clubs. I'd be happy with references and see also's but to me the York Knights are a twenty year old club with strong links going back alot further.
1433:. I would have no problem with removing the icons altogether, although this would probably need to be discussed on the project talk page, as use of team colour icons is fairly widespread on RL articles.
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Assessed as "Start" standard with "High" importance. A section on amateur RL in the area may be useful, as would some photographs (particularly any from previous eras) and a section on notable players.
1166:(for now), as that is the official name of the club. If the media does end up referring to the club by a different name then it can be revisited, but we shouldn't speculate before then, per policy.
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during a RLWC in this country or they support York, and they want to put in the effort and do right by the York City Knights, York Wasps and a new title, then fair play to them, they can go for it.
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I think the previous agreed position was to move it to York Knights because there was alot of work needed to merge, rationalise and then reference out two clubs that have been two clubs, with the
1429:
To be honest, I have never liked using the team icons, partly because of examples like this where a team's traditional colours aren't well defined, but also because using them is against
1245:
conversation for another day and allows the new club to have a proper link at the York Knights page, and then recombine or keep a separate history with whatever the consensus decides.
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York Knights makes sense to me as an accurate reflection of what the club has now become, and rules out the confusion over previous entities, at least in the article title.
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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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from 2002 to 2022) are an English professional rugby league club based in York. The men’s team are the
706:. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit
542:. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit
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http://web.archive.org/web/20110404113338/http://www.yorkcityknights.co.uk:80/c/york-city-knights-news
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after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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No opinion on the continuity bit - there are numerous examples throughout the history of the sport.
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See below much good discussion with some support, perhaps growing temporary resolution to
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See below much good discussion with some support, perhaps growing temporary resolution to
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According to FreeBMD, the births of two people named F. W. Oliver were registered in the
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http://web.archive.org/web/20110215080940/http://www.yorkcityknights.co.uk:80/fans-forum
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Last edited at 12:01, 16 October 2007 (UTC). Substituted at 11:05, 30 April 2016 (UTC)
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If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with
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If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with
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are an English professional men’s rugby league team based in York. They represent
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The Squad needs updating to the 2009 squad, info can be found on club website
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the Knights article up to date, please email: dsom 73 (at) hot mail . com
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Is there any copyright on the images and text or are they available on a
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If we postpone any discussion of merges here are some suggestions:
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name change. Thanks and kudos to editors for your input; everyone
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name change. Thanks and kudos to editors for your input; everyone
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, you can visit the
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Whichever title is used could have a similar intro such as:
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When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the
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if and when an article about the women's team is created.
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for additional information. I made the following changes:
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for additional information. I made the following changes:
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http://www.yorkcityknights.co.uk/c/york-city-knights-news
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from 2002 to 2022) which also has a women’s team called
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a different name so we don't have to go with the chunky
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Requires addition of inline references using one of the
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where the men's team are branded as York RLFC Knights.
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870:somewhere else, with the name being decided below.
762:using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
632:using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
445:(F. W. Oliver) was educated, but not born, in York
1827:https://www.yorkpress.co.uk/sport/yorkcityknights/
1702:a) York RFLC Knights or b) York R.L.F.C. Knights
1776:dropping the RLFC bit when they have a mascot.
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748:This message was posted before February 2018.
618:This message was posted before February 2018.
467:The comment(s) below were originally left at
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414:, the county in which Hull resides, and the
590:http://www.yorkcityknights.co.uk/fans-forum
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698:I have just modified one external link on
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426:district), and Frederick William Oliver (
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441:As an interesting aside, the botanist
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1513:It was proposed in this section that
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607:to let others know (documentation at
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38:It is of interest to the following
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103:Knowledge:WikiProject Rugby league
14:
1901:Low-importance Yorkshire articles
1891:WikiProject Rugby league articles
1881:Start-Class rugby league articles
702:. Please take a moment to review
538:. Please take a moment to review
475:several discussions in past years
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1863:The discussion above is closed.
1825:Local news coverage (The Press:
1699:a) York RLFC or b) York R.L.F.C.
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695:Hello fellow Wikipedians,
649:(last update: 5 June 2024)
531:Hello fellow Wikipedians,
470:Talk:York Knights/Comments
407:are they the same person?
247:project's importance scale
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1265:Hunslet R.L.F.C.
1099:
1014:
1010:
1002:
969:
965:
958:
922:
918:
910:
877:
873:
859:
852:
837:
814:
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778:
777:
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684:
675:
648:
647:
626:
614:
567:
495:
489:
480:
479:
472:
428:birth registered
420:birth registered
383:in 1909 against
351:? Best Regards.
347:, ever play for
296:
229:
228:
225:
222:
219:
185:
183:Yorkshire portal
180:
179:
169:
162:
161:
156:
148:
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107:
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76:
69:
68:
63:
55:
48:
31:
25:
24:
16:
1921:
1920:
1916:
1915:
1914:
1912:
1911:
1910:
1871:
1870:
1869:
1868:
1676:
1675:
1663:
1655:
1643:WP:OTHEROPTIONS
1620:
1616:
1604:
1595:
1569:
1561:
1549:WP:OTHEROPTIONS
1526:
1484:
1474:
1381:
1376:
1375:
1183:Northern Wonder
1097:
1021:
1020:
1008:
1000:
967:
963:
951:
942:
916:
908:
875:
833:
823:
808:
803:
771:
764:have permission
754:
738:
708:this simple FaQ
693:
678:
673:
641:
634:have permission
624:
608:
561:
544:this simple FaQ
529:
493:
487:
468:
465:
373:A player named
371:
341:
279:
266:
226:
223:
220:
217:
216:
181:
174:
154:
125:High-importance
108:
105:
102:
99:
98:
62:High‑importance
61:
32:on Knowledge's
29:
12:
11:
5:
1919:
1917:
1909:
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1792:
1791:
1738:
1737:
1715:
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1707:
1706:
1703:
1700:
1674:
1656:P.I. Ellsworth
1625:
1617:
1613:
1612:
1605:
1596:
1582:
1581:
1562:P.I. Ellsworth
1531:
1522:
1511:
1501:
1500:
1497:
1496:
1495:
1481:requested move
1475:
1473:
1470:
1469:
1468:
1467:
1466:
1401:Wellington or
1380:
1377:
1369:
1349:
1348:
1347:
1346:
1345:
1344:
1343:
1342:
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1334:
1157:
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1154:
1153:
1152:
1151:
1150:
1149:
1148:
1147:
1146:
1093:
1019:
1001:P.I. Ellsworth
972:
964:
960:
959:
952:
943:
929:
928:
909:P.I. Ellsworth
880:
871:
860:
850:
849:
846:
845:
844:
830:requested move
824:
822:
819:
798:
797:
790:
723:
722:
714:Added archive
692:
689:
668:
667:
660:
593:
592:
584:Added archive
582:
574:Added archive
572:
558:
550:Added archive
528:
525:
519:
518:
511:
510:
507:
502:Copy edit for
500:
497:
464:
461:
405:1904–05 season
379:won a cap for
370:
364:
340:
335:Ever play for
333:
332:
331:
265:
262:
259:
258:
255:
254:
251:
250:
243:Low-importance
239:
233:
232:
230:
187:
186:
170:
158:
157:
155:Low‑importance
149:
137:
136:
133:
132:
121:
115:
114:
112:
77:
65:
64:
56:
44:
43:
37:
26:
13:
10:
9:
6:
4:
3:
2:
1918:
1907:
1904:
1902:
1899:
1897:
1894:
1892:
1889:
1887:
1884:
1882:
1879:
1878:
1876:
1866:
1855:
1851:
1847:
1842:
1841:
1840:
1836:
1832:
1828:
1824:
1823:
1822:
1821:
1818:
1814:
1810:
1805:
1801:
1800:York R.L.F.C.
1797:
1794:
1793:
1790:
1786:
1782:
1779:
1774:
1773:
1772:
1771:
1767:
1763:
1757:
1755:
1754:York Valkyrie
1751:
1747:
1743:
1735:
1734:
1733:
1731:
1730:York Valkyrie
1727:
1723:
1719:
1712:
1711:
1710:
1704:
1701:
1698:
1697:
1696:
1693:
1692:
1688:
1684:
1680:
1672:
1668:
1666:
1660:
1659:
1658:
1651:
1648:
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1640:
1636:
1635:
1630:
1629:
1623:
1610:
1606:
1603:
1601:
1594:
1593:
1590:
1587:
1580:
1578:
1574:
1572:
1566:
1565:
1564:
1557:
1554:
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1546:
1542:
1541:
1536:
1535:
1529:
1520:
1516:
1512:
1509:
1505:
1504:
1499:
1494:
1492:
1487:
1482:
1477:
1476:
1471:
1465:
1461:
1457:
1452:
1446:
1445:
1444:
1440:
1436:
1432:
1428:
1427:
1426:
1425:
1421:
1417:
1411:
1405:
1399:
1393:
1387:
1378:
1373:
1368:
1367:
1363:
1359:
1355:
1333:
1329:
1325:
1318:
1317:
1316:
1312:
1308:
1303:
1302:
1301:
1297:
1293:
1288:
1287:
1286:
1282:
1278:
1274:
1270:
1269:primary topic
1266:
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1258:
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1256:
1252:
1248:
1243:
1242:
1241:
1237:
1233:
1229:
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1223:
1219:
1214:
1213:
1212:
1208:
1204:
1199:
1195:
1194:
1193:
1192:
1188:
1184:
1178:
1177:
1173:
1169:
1165:
1164:York R.L.F.C.
1161:
1145:
1141:
1137:
1132:
1127:
1126:
1125:
1121:
1117:
1113:
1112:
1111:
1107:
1103:
1094:
1091:
1090:
1089:
1085:
1081:
1076:
1075:
1074:
1070:
1066:
1062:
1058:
1057:
1056:
1052:
1048:
1044:
1043:York R.L.F.C.
1040:
1039:
1038:
1037:
1033:
1029:
1025:
1017:
1013:
1011:
1005:
1004:
1003:
996:
993:
989:
985:
981:
980:York R.L.F.C.
977:
976:
975:No consensus.
970:
957:
953:
950:
948:
941:
940:
937:
934:
927:
925:
921:
919:
913:
912:
911:
904:
901:
897:
893:
889:
888:York R.L.F.C.
885:
884:
883:No consensus.
878:
869:
865:
861:
858:
854:
853:
848:
843:
841:
836:
831:
826:
825:
820:
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817:
812:
807:
806:
795:
791:
788:
784:
783:
782:
775:
769:
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751:
746:
742:
736:
732:
728:
721:
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688:
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682:
677:
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665:
661:
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654:
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645:
639:
635:
631:
627:
621:
616:
612:
606:
602:
598:
591:
587:
583:
581:
577:
573:
571:
565:
559:
557:
553:
549:
548:
547:
545:
541:
537:
532:
526:
524:
517:
514:
508:
505:
501:
498:
492:
485:
484:
481:
478:
476:
471:
462:
460:
459:
455:
451:
448:Best regards
446:
444:
439:
437:
433:
429:
425:
421:
417:
413:
408:
406:
402:
400:
398:
394:
390:
386:
382:
378:
376:
368:
365:
363:
362:
358:
354:
350:
346:
345:Colin Forsyth
338:
334:
330:
326:
322:
318:
314:
313:
312:
311:
307:
303:
302:86.159.118.27
297:
295:
291:
287:
286:193.61.234.13
283:
276:
275:
272:
263:
248:
244:
238:
235:
234:
231:
214:
213:
208:
207:
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198:
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184:
178:
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171:
168:
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159:
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130:
126:
120:
117:
116:
113:
97:
93:
92:
87:
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78:
75:
71:
70:
66:
60:
57:
54:
50:
45:
41:
35:
27:
23:
18:
17:
1864:
1795:
1777:
1758:
1749:
1745:
1742:York Knights
1741:
1739:
1726:York Knights
1725:
1721:
1717:
1716:
1708:
1705:York Knights
1694:
1677:
1653:
1652:
1649:
1647:stay healthy
1638:
1634:York Knights
1632:
1626:
1619:
1597:
1592:target title
1588:
1586:source title
1583:
1559:
1558:
1555:
1553:stay healthy
1544:
1540:York Knights
1538:
1532:
1525:
1523:
1498:
1485:
1478:
1395:Castleford,
1382:
1371:
1350:
1198:Phoenix club
1179:
1159:
1158:
1022:
998:
997:
994:
992:stay healthy
987:
973:
966:
944:
939:target title
935:
933:source title
930:
906:
905:
902:
900:stay healthy
895:
881:
874:
872:
847:
834:
827:
802:
799:
774:source check
753:
747:
734:
730:
726:
724:
697:
694:
672:
669:
644:source check
623:
617:
604:
600:
596:
594:
533:
530:
522:
466:
447:
440:
436:F. W. Oliver
409:
393:F. W. Oliver
375:F. W. Oliver
372:
367:F. W. Oliver
342:
298:
277:
267:
242:
210:
206:project page
204:
194:
190:York Knights
188:
124:
100:Rugby league
89:
83:
80:York Knights
79:
59:Rugby league
40:WikiProjects
1639:at any time
1584:Move logs:
1545:at any time
1491:move review
931:Move logs:
840:move review
741:Sourcecheck
611:Sourcecheck
450:DynamoDegsy
403:during the
395:played for
353:DynamoDegsy
280:—Preceding
271:Tim Fellows
30:Start-class
1875:Categories
1748:(known as
1720:(known as
811:Report bug
681:Report bug
1746:York RLFC
1718:York RLFC
1431:MOS:DECOR
1273:York RLFC
1230:I agree.
984:York RLFC
892:York RLFC
794:this tool
787:this tool
664:this tool
657:this tool
564:dead link
496:templates
387:while at
218:Yorkshire
212:talk page
201:Yorkshire
152:Yorkshire
1831:EdwardUK
1809:J Mo 101
1762:EdwardUK
1683:EdwardUK
1628:Let's go
1534:Let's go
1456:EdwardUK
1435:J Mo 101
1416:EdwardUK
1358:EdwardUK
1277:J Mo 101
1218:J Mo 101
1168:J Mo 101
1136:EdwardUK
988:specific
896:specific
800:Cheers.—
670:Cheers.—
282:unsigned
264:Untitled
96:Join us!
1621:result:
1527:result:
968:result:
876:result:
727:checked
704:my edit
597:checked
568:tag to
540:my edit
513:Keith D
381:England
321:Keith D
317:license
245:on the
127:on the
1846:Fleets
1781:Fleets
1641:under
1547:under
1324:Fleets
1292:Fleets
1247:Fleets
1203:Fleets
1116:Fleets
1080:Fleets
1047:Fleets
735:failed
605:failed
560:Added
504:WP:MOS
36:scale.
1631:with
1537:with
1307:Nthep
1232:Nthep
1102:Nthep
1065:Nthep
1028:Nthep
385:Wales
1850:talk
1835:talk
1813:talk
1802:per
1796:Move
1785:talk
1766:talk
1740:The
1687:talk
1460:talk
1439:talk
1420:talk
1362:talk
1328:talk
1311:talk
1296:talk
1281:talk
1263:and
1251:talk
1236:talk
1222:talk
1207:talk
1187:talk
1172:talk
1160:Move
1140:talk
1120:talk
1106:talk
1084:talk
1069:talk
1051:talk
1032:talk
731:true
601:true
491:Cite
454:talk
432:Hull
424:York
397:Hull
389:York
357:talk
349:York
343:Did
337:York
325:talk
306:talk
290:talk
119:High
1798:to
1664:ed.
1570:ed.
1517:be
1162:to
1009:ed.
982:or
917:ed.
890:or
866:be
768:RfC
745:).
733:or
718:to
638:RfC
615:).
603:or
588:to
578:to
554:to
237:Low
1877::
1852:)
1837:)
1815:)
1787:)
1768:)
1736:Or
1689:)
1661:,
1602:}}
1567:,
1483:.
1462:)
1441:)
1422:)
1364:)
1330:)
1313:)
1298:)
1283:)
1253:)
1238:)
1224:)
1209:)
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1108:)
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1071:)
1053:)
1034:)
1006:,
949:}}
914:,
832:.
781:.
776:}}
772:{{
743:}}
739:{{
651:.
646:}}
642:{{
613:}}
609:{{
566:}}
562:{{
494:}}
488:{{
483:.
456:)
438:?
359:)
327:)
308:)
292:)
1848:(
1833:(
1811:(
1783:(
1764:(
1685:(
1650:!
1589:·
1556:!
1458:(
1437:(
1418:(
1360:(
1326:(
1309:(
1294:(
1279:(
1249:(
1234:(
1220:(
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1104:(
1098:]
1082:(
1067:(
1049:(
1030:(
995:!
936:·
903:!
813:)
809:(
796:.
789:.
683:)
679:(
666:.
659:.
452:(
355:(
339:?
323:(
304:(
288:(
249:.
215:.
131:.
42::
Text is available under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License. Additional terms may apply.
