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away nothing from her notability. All artists' popularity fluctuates, so comparing her current level of popularity with a previous time also means nothing. There is a trend happening with artists moving away from their labels. Madonna recently left Warner after 25 years and signed on with Live Nation, who is not a traditional label. Prince, after an acrimonious split from Warner, famously remained without a label and self-published. Radiohead has been very nontraditional lately and landed their story on the cover of
Rolling Stone recently. Ysabella Brave is right along the cutting edge of new trends in the music business to be nontraditional. I don't think Knowledge (XXG) is a place exclusively for traditional arrangements. In fact, I believe one of the strengths of Knowledge (XXG) is to shed tradition and to have articles with content that might not be offered in traditional publications, which are quickly becoming obsolete. Holding Ysabella Brave to some arbitrary standard that she must be a conventional artist, signed to a traditional label, and at the same time maintain her highest level of popularity, is all ridiculous. What she has accomplished is done and notable and what is to come is unknown, so trying to play erasure at this juncture makes no sense.
1594:, who is, "arguably the world's most powerful woman," according to Time and CNN, has 48,000 subscribers, so trying to claim that Ysabella Brave was insignificant to YouTube doesn't follow. Ysabella Brave exists beyond YouTube: a Google search turns up over 80,000 hits, with videos and mentions of her all over the Web in articles and blogs, not just on YouTube. If the suspension of her YouTube channels is being considered relevant, than every other person who has had a project end or pause, like the cancellation or hiatus of a TV show, should be a candidate for deletion as well. Also, anyone who has tried to deal with YouTube on suspension issues knows that they are not fast acting, with no phone support, and I imagine during the holidays must be especially difficult to get results, making it way too early to even be suggesting deletion. I also think the details surrounding the suspension, which has been reduced to one line, are relevant and should remain.
1306:, you'd be correct. Have they legally changed their names? Who knows and it's irrelevant. We do not refer to their chosen career names as their "stage names" whenever we write or speak of them. Ysabella Brave's birth name is listed, more than once, within her article; there is no false impression. Specifying that "Ysabella Brave" is a "stage name" is unnecessary and inconsistent with common practice. Further, if you consider Ysabella Brave to be the greater authority, and she is, you may want to pay attention to her recent videos and listen to how she names herself, how she signs her video descriptions, and to her name listing on her YouTube profile--it's either Ysabella Brave or Ysabella. Additionally, you may not be familiar with Federal and California State law concerning
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YouTube--at the time of her suspension, she was still among the top 100 YouTube
Directors. Getting signed by a Warner Group music company was an achievement. The fact that she may not still be signed is irrelevant--it happened (she's still on Cordless' MySpace page), she was signed, and she was one of the first to make the crossover; that fact alone is noteworthy and will never change. Her contributions and place in history will remain, regardless of what her current status is on YouTube, even if no one was watching her at the time of her suspension, which was not the case--her talk video about her suspension charted on YouTube's top 5 videos. She had about 48,000 subscribers at the time of the suspensions.
1310:. "Common usage" means someone can simply begin using a name consistently and PRESTO, it's their name. Lately, she has been consistently using Ysabella Brave in every situation known to us where a name is required. Making a legal name change, by the way, is entirely optional. And you claim to know if she has changed it legally? In fact, many people who are publicly known as one name have likely not legally changed their name to match and instead maintain their birth name on identification and other personal documentation. I recall standing next to
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years, the ysabellabrave channel was in the top 100 subscribed channels of all time. For over a year, she was in the top 20 and during that period her new videos frequently had honors placing them at number one in several site wide categories. There were even periods when several of her videos charted at the same time in the top 10. At the time of the suspensions, she remained among the top 100 subscribed YouTube
Directors. YouTube subscribers are calling into question, through comments and videos, YouTube's decision to suspend someone so popular.
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calls herself, "Ysabella." In the discussion area, I'll refer to her on a familiar basis as well. There is no need to ask
Ysabella what she's naming herself, because she is telling us herself, repeatedly, if we take the time to look and acknowledge it. Read the description of Ysabella's last 15 videos and you may notice that she signs them with either, "Ysabella" or "Ysabella Brave." "MaryAnne" ceased to be her signature or in the tags back in May 2007 and has been replaced by, "Ysabella" and "Brave." Her channel
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doesn't matter what their birth name was, how they arrived at their name, or what they may have called themselves earlier, just what they are calling themselves now and in the foreseeable future. Perhaps you have simply missed that she is
Ysabella Brave; hopefully, I have shed some light on it. My agenda here, which was questioned earlier, is to accurately report Ysabella in her article, based on the most current information available to us, and I have the same agenda on any article I edit.
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reinstated ysabellabravetalk channel that she had received notice her accounts had been suspended because of potential copyright violations with some of her cover songs she had recorded and posted on YouTube. She acknowledged her willingness to remove any possibly infringing materials, if her account was reinstated. Ironically, that video achieved a number of YouTube honors, including charting in at least six countries.
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1152:, among other publications and blogs. There are many people and events on Knowledge (XXG) with considerably less notability than Ysabella Brave. Trying to single her out at this point appears you are either uninformed or biased, particularly, "AnotherDayAnotherID," when you come in here to edit in a cloaked manner and only her article.
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1262:. On this matter, I take MaryAnne as a greater authority than either Billboard or Cordless, and on her video, "A Word From Your Pal MaryAnne", she says (direct quote), "Ysabellabrave is a nickname that my father gave to me, I suppose he considers me to be a brave lady; so, that's where that comes from."
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December 17, 2008, her ysabellabravetalk YouTube channel was again suspended. At the time of the suspensions, between her two channels, Ysabella Brave had more than 48,000 subscribers and 191 videos, with over 15 million views, making her one of YouTube's most popular people. For approximately two
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Ysabella Brave is a single nickname with two parts, like Fat Bob, Curly Sue or even "Worth
Watching". Using the last (descriptive) bit without the first does not make sense Mr. Worth. You may be surprised how few people in the world feel compelled to comply with the Christian name - Surname paradigm,
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when he had his driver's license out and it read, "James
Ambrose Johnson, Jr." He never bothered to change his name after a long career, yet he was known to the world as Rick James, not Rick James (stage name). If Ysabella Brave is going by Ysabella Brave then by golly she's Ysabella Brave! "Stage
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Would you prefer "Knowledge (XXG) is not a soap opera?" We don't need a play-by-play for someone who is now clearly a minor figure on YouTube. She may once have been a leading attraction, but her most recent performances were viewed only a tiny fraction of her earlier numbers. Hardly noteworthy.
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The only thing I'm struggling with, "AnotherDayAnotherID," is your logic. Calling me Mr. Worth makes no sense, maybe you meant Mr. Watching. However, your point is lost because I have never referred to myself as simply, "Worth," nor have I ever separated, "WorthWatching." Ysabella Brave regularly
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December 11, 2008, Ysabella Brave's two YouTube channels were suspended for reasons which were at first unclear. Within a day, YouTube had restored her talk channel, ysabellabravetalk, but not her primary channel, ysabellabrave, with mostly music videos. Ysabella soon posted a video on her just
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Some of you do indeed seem to be confusing notability and popularity. Ysabella Brave is definitely notable. The fact she was signed to a label was an early indication of her status as an artist, not to mention the groundbreaking circumstances. Artists and labels part ways all the time and takes
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reads, "Ysabella" as her name. Both her channels have background images with, "Ysabella Brave" on them, clearly as two names. Her label calls her, "Ysabella Brave." At some point, everyone entering the entertainment business has to decide on a name and it's up to us to report it and use it. It
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The reason that you are both struggling with your attempts to write this article in the usual encyclopedic fashion for noteworthy people is that, in my opinion, you are both constrained by the fact that
Ysabella Brave is not yet noteworthy. Trying to prove otherwise could even prove harmful to her
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The notability is clear and now, not a claim for the future. Ysabella Brave is among the first to make the leap between rising from a total unknown on a video sharing website to signing a deal with a major entertainment entity, all in less than a year--truly remarkable by any standard. Her story
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As for Ysabella Brave's real name, I assume you are both aware of the consequences of publishing the personal information of private individuals that has not been released to the general public (arguing that Ysabella Brave is no longer a private person on the strength of a couple of opinion based
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Claiming Notability before Ysabella Brave's first published recording for Cordless Recordings is really making a huge assumption that the contract is success in and off itself. Perceived success on YouTube is at best a fuzzy concept and none of the easily abused metrics on that site are reliable
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The origin of the name Ysabella Brave is beside the point--what matters is it obviously is her chosen name. Latching on to how it was mentioned in a video last year isn't keeping up with the times. Currently, the background images on both her YouTube channel profiles have the words, "Ysabella
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The very idea of deleting this article is inappropriate, as if the likely temporary suspension of Ysabella Brave's YouTube channels means she is any less significant in the annals of people gaining recognition through the Internet. She reached several milestones, including being a pioneer on
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Recording contracts are irrelevant, as her nobility is not necessarily as a "recording artist" in the conventional sense. And the importance of an article relative to other articles is also irrelevant, as meeting this requirement should stand on it's own (it's not a contest). Notability and
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As I have been reminded many times before, deleting material and adding back material is not considered vandalism. I find it sadly ironic that you feel the addition of material is vandalism, but not the deletion. The very term vandalism conjures pictures of someone taking away, not adding
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If you do not have a legitimate contribution to this article, which includes references to publicly verifiable sources, please refrain from making any edits. Without the appropriate substantiation, such edits amount to nothing more than vandalism and will be immediately reverted.
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Ysabella Brave has a distinctive voice, but her songs rarely sound similar as she will often adapt her style to suit the piece that she is singing. On screen she creates deep sonorous tones with such effortless confidence that many of her new viewers (given the amateur nature of
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This individual, Ysabella Brave, has a full page because it's deserved. If your "real artists" warrant a page, it would better serve Knowledge (XXG) to create the articles, as opposed to lamenting their absence on the discussion page of an unrelated article.
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1285:, nor has she legally changed her name to "Ysabella Brave", it can at best be considered as a stage name (something fully consistent with the usage you mention). As an encyclopedic article, the article should not give a false impression.
1057:(significant feminist performance artist through 1970s see 'interior scroll', etc.) have no entries to speak of? Was it too difficult to go to a book to verify material for those two and easier to clip stuff off the web for this person? -
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that Ysabellabrave "Has become the most prominent representative of a notable style", namely that of online amateur video singing; however, that would be a bit hard to prove (and the category itself is perhaps non-notable).
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I've modified the statement about the suspension. It's definitely a fact that the suspension occurred, however, is there a reliable source that indicates why she was suspended? Pending that, I've removed that part.
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of her channels are now defunct is an encyclopedic enough fact, surely... Recent events also leave this article inaccurate. Suggest avoiding "fact fury perfectionism" and getting the article ship-shape please.
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Adding unsourced, POV material that has previously been deleted for that reason is vandalism in my opinion. I have no vendetta against Ysabella Brave. I just happen to like the integrity of WP more. Please
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However, the use of "Ms." is unnecessary and not exactly encyclopedic, so simply "Brave" will be used instead of "Ms. Brave," since it's presumptuous and non-encyclopedic to refer to her on a familiar basis.
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To the editor who deleted content with the statement "Knowledge (XXG) is not a newspaper" (what does that peculiar comment mean anyway when this site is usually updated when events happen?), the fact that
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It is not uncommon for people who find themselves in the public eye to use a name different than their birth name. Who is Alicia Augello-Cook, Joscelyn Stoker, and Stevland Judkins? If you answered
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Her characterization of it is as a nickname; claiming that background images prove that she is claiming it as her name is an interpretation that goes far beyond the evidence. In any case, as it is
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The revisions to the article create the misapprehension that "Brave" is ysabellabrave's last name, instead of just being part of her user name. In particular, calling her "Ms. Brave" is quite odd.
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Entirely agreed this article is a prime candidate for deletion. Her popularity has waned to the point where she was a non-entity on YouTube long before they pulled her channels.
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popularity are being confused here. Notability is not about metrics (especially unreliable ones like those on YT). I agree with the two parameters stated above by RandomCritic.
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Brave" prominently shown. Since they are her profiles and appear to be under her control, I assume she approves of how her name is displayed.
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refers to her as, "vocalist Ysabella Brave"--it would be difficult to find a greater authority in the music business than Billboard. Her label,
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The person has been the subject of published secondary sources that are reliable, intellectually independent, and independent of the subject.
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Unless they are cited from a reliable third party source, they will simply be removed yet again and you will be warned about vandalism... --
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I see no POV or any other issues with this article. Try reading some other articles about singers before arriving at any conclusions.
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The web site has in fact returned, albeit with some structure changes, so I removed my comment about the web site from the main page.
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especially when giving others nicknames (and it is a nickname, when it comes to Ysabella Brave, MaryAnne is a greater authority than
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Don't know why, but her web site vanished as I was viewing it. I thought this event was noteworthy enough to update the main page.
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is unreferenced and relates to matters of opinion. I have edited it. However, I remain uneasy about the tone of this article. --
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Can someone please update this entry - all her videos have been removed from YouTube and I would love to know why! Thanks.
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and related topics on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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If I had a nickel for everytime a wikipedian asked someone else to add information to a wikipage, I would be rich.
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Ms. Brave is also known for her unique classy look, often commented about in the comments section of her videos.
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I've put a reference to her most recent talk channel video, which states why she lost her music video channel. --
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Before I restore some of the facts surrounding the suspension, I'm interested to hear arguments against it.
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Can anyone explain to me why this individual has a full on page on this site while real artists like
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I believe this is verifiable from a perusal of Ysabellabrave's YouTube video comments and responses.
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I agree with the view that we should not refer to her as Ms. Brave, for the reasons give above. --
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name" doesn't belong in this article and simply listing her birth name is sufficient.
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MaryAnne specifies on her videos that the tracks she uses are from Karaoke CDs.
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I'm a huge fan. But the POV on this page is horendous. needs some clean up.
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Currently, Ysabella Brave is not listed among the signed artists at
182:. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the
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Unknown-importance Indigenous peoples of North America articles
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A list of articles needing cleanup associated with this project
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1163:—Preceding
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564:Substitute
100:Start-class
1877:Categories
1841:Not listed
1828:2008-12-13
1809:References
1312:Rick James
1300:Joss Stone
1059:Vinegartom
1045:Notability
504:Apply the
1412:Vandalism
1341:Billboard
1233:Billboard
894:See also
189:Biography
134:Musicians
129:Biography
68:libellous
1533:unsigned
1483:unsigned
1435:unsigned
1225:"Brave"
1165:unsigned
1150:Dan Neil
1107:WP:MUSIC
978:unsigned
532:Maintain
28:deletion
1865:umanoid
1784:YouTube
1726:umanoid
1666:umanoid
1398:Karaoke
1260:factual
887:YouTube
787:history
521:Cleanup
427:history
400:on the
373:YouTube
364:YouTube
336:YouTube
311:on the
1390:Duncan
1302:, and
946:Duncan
834:Expand
499:Assess
106:scale.
1857:andom
1796:travb
1718:andom
1677:travb
1658:andom
1592:Oprah
1475:Peter
1458:Peter
1023:travb
878:Other
865:Stubs
852:Photo
797:purge
792:watch
557:Other
545:Stubs
437:purge
432:watch
1800:talk
1710:. --
1681:talk
1675:too.
1634:talk
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1600:talk
1573:talk
1558:talk
1541:talk
1525:both
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1209:Name
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1082:Per
1074:talk
1027:talk
1013:talk
986:talk
872:here
845:here
841:here
782:edit
491:list
489:see
458:and
422:edit
178:and
36:keep
34:was
1849:.--
926:POV
843:or
756:???
674:???
508:on
392:Low
303:Low
57:BLP
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