Talk:Zhang Ziyi/Archive 1

1000:

one's daughter Chastity or Prudence or Benedict or Victor in English. So the "di3" would seem to me to be "child/descendent who is..." Is there an equivalent analysis of the name of someone who is much more important, e.g., Mao2 (body hair) Ze2 (gives benefit to) Dong1 (the East)? There may actually be some reason for such an analysis in the case of a Stalin or a Jiang Zhong-zheng -- people who have given themselves a politically significant name for obvious purposes. But I fail to see the need for such analyses in this case. (Would we analyze the given name in a phrase like "the tenth husband of Constance Higgins Peabody?")

753:"If people want to find out the meaning of "Ziyi" they can look it up on their own." Funny he did not mention Zhang. Your asinine assumptions about my interests are irrelevant. In fact my interests are irrelevant. I won't even ask how you think an interest in ZZY follows on to a desire to keep a translation of her name there. Why not to Hu Jintao? I can think of no reason to also include it there as well. But of course it would have to be more than childish vandalism but a properly structured passage. Just how many pages did you vandalise to make this silly point of yours? 573:

but its meaning is included. It is the combination that matters. It makes no difference to you but look at how much of this Talk Page is devoted to her name. It obviously makes a difference to some people. I don't think that is a sensible way to translate her name and of course you would not include the surname with the rest of her name if someone wanted to. We are still down to the bottom line - it is true, it is factual, it is relevant and it is of interest to some people. Why wouldn't we include it? Some people, like Muawiya, have sections devoted to their names.

1101:

more common "Zhang". However, the given name does have a meaning, usually chosen by carefully by Chinese parents for certain meanings (unlike Christian names). May I suggest here that those "Angmohs" who are not familiar in Chinese (whether naming or meaning or otherwise) please do not edit... Machines are not perfect. In this case, could be Ziyi's parents see a child "Zi", then are happy "Yi", or they think the child brings them happiness, haha. Best simple solution: Ask Ziyi what her name means on her

1251:

proper Chinese name. You do not want a name that sounds inappropriate. Zhang is usually used to mean chapter. At least when I come across it. Why is that obviously a machine? I do not think I have attacked anyone personally, but if people go out of their way to insult me I am unlikely to be as mild and forgiving as I usually am. Given repeated personal attacks on me, my language competance, and my motivation I suggest that any admin might find a lot of us short of the mark.

31: 1205:, the surname doesn't have a meaning in this context, cannot be chosen, and its explanation should not be included. If one reads the discussions at the top about the meaning of the name, he is certain to find out that some people have been calling her "Chapter", obviously a machine translation, right? May I point out that you and I probably both know very well that some of the remarks you have made could be considered as 440:

article. "A little trouble looking up her name" is crap. That's what people do if they want to look up any other Chinese person's name, and any person's name for that matter. Heck, English names don't get that useless treatment even though they're derived from Latin or Arabic words - are you going to go around changing them too? because it's trivial info that definitely shouldn't be so prominent in an article. --

832:

But here it remains a properly balanced, properly edited piece of information that some people, at least, have found interesting. Unlike your silly attempts to provoke anger you, I guess, hope will translate over here. I reject the idea I have vandalised a thing. And I also reject the idea it is 2:1 to you. You still do not have a single coherent reason for removing this piece of information.

646:

editing it, I might. But we are here and I am editing this page. It is irrelevant whether this surname is unique to her or not. Her given name isn't either. What matters is whether it is true and worth including. It is true and I think it is worth including. Why, as I asked before, wouldn't we include it? Why only her personal name and not her surname?

1544:"Stable and verifiable sites with other meritable, relevant content that is not suitable for inclusion in an article; such as... interviews." are "What should be linked to". Moreover they cover the actress at "a level of detail which is inappropriate for the Knowledge article" and hence should be linked to, rather than worked into the article. 1135:

the family name - it counts for the eight characters. I don't see the logic in only translating the given name. Both or neither. I do not see any sign that anyone is using a machine. An odd assumption on your part. And if you're going to waive NPA policies about, perhaps you might like to direct them more appropriately?

274:"i" is not pronounced. The "Z" is similar to the "Zh" except it is a dental silbilant, not a retroflex (many northern Chinese have a clear "r" sound). It is, more or less, half way between a "t" and an "s" but without a strong outflow of air (which would be a "ci"). "Yi", thankfully, sounds just like it is spelled. 1824:

For some time, the two sites were linked along with IMDb with no problems. Only recently, was there a "vandalism" issue. Until then, user of this Knowledge article had access to two different yet very informative resources that go well beyond the article and IMDb alone. It would seem to me that's the

1134:

Except Chinese people will know that a name is supposed to be read out in full. So it is unlikely that someone called "Zhang" is going to choose a name for their child which does not take into account the fact it will be said Zhang Ziyi, not just Ziyi. A parent will pick a given name that goes with

1061:

only there because of some strange desire to clear up Western fan boy confusion, or probably even just plain fan boy fanaticism on part of the contributor, which is totally unnecessary for an encyclopaedia. Make a TRIVIA section for this article, and place all the dictionary derived meanings there. --

907:

We better stop now. If you are not adverse to the idea, you need not react when I did those "additions". Vandal or not, I did those, not you. Also, it is styled exactly after what you did to this article. I hope you now see how ridiculous they were. I said you were childish because you refuse to

831:

I doubt it is pointless to talk to me but you would have to actually talk to me and not simply insult me and ignore whatever it is I have to say. I am doing nothing of the sort. Someone else translated her name. I fixed it a bit. You objected and I saw some sense in making it shorter. And it is.

645:

I do not see how I am contradicting myself. By "people" you mean "you". No doubt we would both claim to have majority support, but I would point to the fact that the majority of this page is devoted to her name as a sign of interest in that topic. If there was a Zhang(surname) page and I felt like

542:

An encyclopedia is an encyclopedia, Lao Wai, it is not just any fan site. Why is it appropriate, you fail to convince me. Like I say, the meaning of surnames have changed over the years. Some surnames has no meaning (like for example Zhou, Zhao, Zheng etc). Also surnames are shared by millions of

488:

I am more than happy with the idea of explaining the meaning of the Chinese characters in people's names. In this specific case it seems a little odd to me to explain the personal name and not the surname. It is relevant to the person concerned, it is of interest, it is true. On what grounds would

421:

Well it is probably not totally necessary, but is it true and does it hurt? People, non-Chinese speaking people especially, may have a little trouble looking up her name in a dictionary. I think that it would be nice for other actors to have more explanation of their names - I am perfectly happy to

273:

Zhang Ziyi has a whole lot of difficult sounds for your average English-speaking foreigner. And I can't do it justice with this keyboard. The initial "Zh" sound in "Zhang" sort of sounds like a "J" crossed with a "Z" in English. The "-ang" final sounds like it looks. "Zi" is a problem because the

2091:

She is 100% Han Chinese, NOT vietnamese, so why is she listed as "people of vietnamese descent"... seems to be some people are trying to claim her as "one of their own". That statement should be removed since there is no evidence. I have never heard Ziyi say that. I googled it and nowhere in Chinese

1489:

explicitly states that "Stable and verifiable sites with other meritable, relevant content that is not suitable for inclusion in an article; such as... interviews." are "What should be linked to". Moreover they cover the actress at "a level of detail which is inappropriate for the Knowledge article"

1297:

was the descendant of a thatcher? Unless you can find the meaning of the surname when it was chosen by her ancestors in the first place, I think that the surname should not be explained. You only have to take a look at her name before you find out that it makes no sense if the surname is included. I

1100:

Look here, guys. Not much point arguing over a surname is there? In Ziyi's case, it's obvious that the surname "Zhang" does not mean anything at all in this context, similar to a few other such Chinese surnames like Guo. We should just label the surname and make sure that it is not confused with the

543:

Chinese people. This particular surname, shared by millions in China, has no unique relevance to the person Zhang Ziyi. She could be Chen Ziyi or Wang Ziyi for all I care, it makes no particular difference to most readers. If you want to explain what the surname means, go to the Knowledge page for

520:

I am unconvinced that surnames have meaning independent from dictionaries. Everyone has a rough idea of what people's surnames mean. When they see Zhang Yimou's name they will think of archers or even, perhaps appropriately, beds. Zhang has chosen to use her name professionally rather than change

300:

I'm American and Caucasian, and I've met a number of Chinese women, and I can tell you that I can never pronounce Ziyi's name the way they do! I think Mandarin, Cantonese, and all the Chinese dialects just have too many sounds that are difficult to pronounce for Americans. Lots of x's and z's. So

1060:

Look, there are like five thousand ways to write "Chan" in Chinese, as with other surnames. Should we then be going around changing every article of a Chinese person with the last name Chan, so that there's an explanation of each person's name? Clearly, the massive paragraph on Zhang Ziyi's name is

1026:

If the given name was chosen specifically because of how it combines with the surname, i.e. if given name plus surname have a particular meaning when added together, then it should be kept. If the whole name means something, that the given name alone does not imply, it should be kept. I see no real

731:

The other guy said "her name", he did not say "personal name". Obviously if you remove one the other must go as well. "Strawman" is there to show that your interest is in Zhang Ziyi, you are not interested in improving the overall interest of Knowledge's naming conventions on the whole. If it can

332:

Well, just as Chinese is difficult for English spoken people, English is difficult for Chinese as well. English has too many "th"s, which is extremely difficult for foreigners. It's very easily for me to pronounce "thanks" as "sanx". Moreover, Chinese language doesn't tell the difference of "w" and

2304:

Is her Chinese name actually just two words she arranged together for the sake of desire (or anonymity, or ease, or whatever), or was this actually her birth name? I am curious, as many Chinese celebrities have been known to change their names around once they become famous. In my opinion, it does

1595:

that commercial sites should not be linked to. Granted, the primary activities of the sites are not commercial, but they derive revenue from advertising on the sites, and therefore are commercial (under the prohibition against sites that have "objectable amounts of advertising," which I certainly

1396:

A bit of an old issue but personally, I see no reason to discuss the meaning someone's name unless there is a reason. Examples of reasons would be if the meaning of their name is often mentioned/discussed by the person in question or if for some reason the meaning often get discussed in the media.

1292:

I beg to differ. If you have read Chinese history, you would find out that the villagers took up surnames which do not have meaning. Surnames do not have meaning, rather, they are used to identify one's family history and lineage. For example, if a villager lived near a forest, he may call himself

1250:

It still has a meaning in this context. The parents cannot change a surname, or should not, but they can pick a personal name which goes with the surname. God knows there are enough personal names that should not go with some surnames because it may create a homonym. It is all part of picking a

999:

For what it's worth, the surname suggests refinement and elegance. The structure of the character shows 10 (out of 10) sounds, i.e., the whole measure of a song, the entirely. fully expressed idea of a section of a book, etc. Given names should express a hope for the child, something like naming

883:

Well we shall see if people object to your childish additions to other pages. I would hope they will be able to see the difference here but as you say, we shall see. You have gone out of your way to insult me and insult me first. I find you comments on that absurd. You can't even resist adding

572:

I do not see this article being in danger of becoming a fan site any time soon. It is true, it is factual, it is of interest to some people anyway. It does not matter if the meanings of surnames have changed. Of course Zhou has a meaning. The character "Zi" is used in millions of names as well

2028:

So, this has been discussed extensively. I get the impression that most editors here who have taken part see no specific conflict between the inclusion of the two external resources in question and Knowledge rules and policies concerning their inclusion. So what now? What constitutes a successful

461:

Who cares what it is reminiscent of? It is not trivia to Chinese people who work quite hard on getting names right. Who cares if it is fan boy curiosity and your snobbery towards said fan boys does not detract from the value of the inclusion. Exactly how are people going to look up her name if

305:

Nah, it's not really that hard. The "zh" is very, very close to the "j" in English words like "job". The "a" is exactly the same as the "a" in "father" (in an American accent). The "z" is pronounced "dz", just the same as in the word "endzone". The only hard sound is the first "i", but if you can

1643:

Both sites qualify under "What should be linked to" provision "Stable and verifiable sites with other meritable, relevant content that is not suitable for inclusion in an article; such as... interviews." and "a level of detail which is inappropriate for the Knowledge article" and hence should be

1482:

External links for Zhang Ziyi (and other Chinese celebrities) are more important than they are for most Western celebrities. The vast majority of information about her comes from the Chinese press. "Fansites" like those that are being removed play a valuble role in translating news reports and

1044:

Most of Chinese surnames do not mean anything. However, the given names usually reflect what their parents hope them to become, and therefore should be explained. In this case, 子怡 refers to a happy child or the happiness of a child (perhaps her parents were happy to have a child). The name is in

502:

Because one's surnames' meaning are acquired independently from the usual dictionary meaning of a book. One cannot and does not choose one's surname, unlike one's given name. Hence Zhang Ziyi's Zhang has nothing to do with chapters in a book or essay, nor does Zhang Yimou's Zhang with "opening".

407:

Is it totally necessary to elaborate on what her name means, especially in the beginning paragraph intro? No other Chinese actor has such extensive writing about their name. If people want to find out the meaning of "Ziyi" they can look it up on their own. Dissecting her name belongs in a Trivia

2215:

The Fox news article isn't about her; she was only mentioned in one line by the Fox reporter, not relevant enough. This is tabloid story, and since most of the comments came from users on the internet forums, unless there is some real relevance to this story, it has no place on an encyclopedia

2039:

This is a matter I'd leave to the editors who know the material best: discuss what each site provides in terms of unique value and reach a consensus. I don't think the difference between 10 and 12 links would make this page into a linkfarm, but at the same time it wouldn't be fair to include a

1725:

No disrespect, but all considered, imo the argument for including IMDb yet neither of the two previously linked external resources is a rather weak one. The two links, along with IMDb, provide a valuable resource to users of Knowledge, in accordance with its rules and regulations. I've not seen

1372:

I feel that it is not that important. It should be placed under a "Trivia" Section. Although though are meanings of the word, her name is just a name. Nobody actually thinks of her as the individual meanings. Just like Robert or Elizbeth, or whatever, it has a history but is just viewed as a

1045:

short form, as Chinese names only have 3 characteres. From what people have said about "Chapter, Child of Happiness", its obvious that someone has used computer technology (which does not recognise short forms) to translate Mandarin into English, which is absolute nonsense. LOL, what a joke! --

778:

It's pointless to argue with you. If people think I'm vandalising they will treat me like one, that is banned me. If what I do is vandalism, you are also a vandal, because what I do is exactly what you are doing to the Zhang Ziyi article. So I hope we are in agreement that you are a vandal?

439:

Yes it does hurt. Adding this paragraph on her name is reminiscent of fan boy websites. No one does this to encyclopaedia articles unless in a "Trivia" section - because it's simply that: trivia. It's fan boy curiosity to know about Ziyi's name and it's decreasing the legitimacy of this online

1078:

We certainly should explain which Chan surname is being used. It is hardly massive. I did not contribute it as it happens and even if I did I do not see how my motivations would matter. But you seem to feel a need to attempt to belittle and humiliate. I wonder why. Mother not like you or

946:

Clearly, this Lao Wei guy just is interested in Zhang Ziyi alone, not about improving an article for what it is. No other article has this trivia precisely because it's worthless. I side with Mandel in that it's absolutely absurd to include such lengthy writing on every character of her name,

1801:

has 3. Each having 1 fan site. But even if we were to follow precedent, then this article too would include 10 external links. But does that best serve its users? I'd say just follow Knowledge's rules, as noted above, which do allow for the inclusion of the two previously linked sites. —

857:

We shall see whether adding information about the meaning of surnames are well taken or not. I will not insult you if you don't do it to me. Whatever. Let the case rest and let others join in the debate. Unlike you, I'm not adverse to the idea of others letting their opinions known.

1168:, nevertheless the meaning of a Chinese name is usually only the meaning of the given name. Since usually you can't choose the surname, it's meaning, if it has a meaning, is not included in the meaning of a person's name. I suppose exceptions include pen names, stage names etc. 2005:

where we retain a handful of links that have research value. Recently we added a Danish site because it contained a complete English translation of one of her trials - something that hadn't been available online elsewhere. Most fansites don't rise to that value, but a few do.

2134:

Currently the article says "...in English language films under the name Ziyi Zhang. ...she stated that the name change was her publicist's idea of a way to appeal to Western audiences." How is that a name change? It's just customary in English to first write the forename.

1574:"Don't edit others' comments". You have made it difficult for others to understand the sense of my comments by removing the subject they discussed. For others who wish to follow this conversation, please visit the article history to see which sites are being discussed. - 1820:

In that case, what I wrote above on September 9th applies: "Both play a valuable role in transmuting the latest and detailed Chinese information about Zhang Ziyi into English -- information that goes well beyond the capability and scope of this one Knowledge article

375:

They are written the same way in pinyin. They also have the same tone (first). So the "accent" (actually a tonal register) should not be omitted on either. The point is that written in Chinese they are different surnames. Spoken in Chinese, they sound the same.

1900:

says "Sites with other meaningful, relevant content that is not suitable for inclusion in an article" are "What should be linked to. It does not make any mention on "essential", nor should it since "essential" is not an objective term and is not capable of NPOV

1027:

harm in explaining the meaning of either name, as long as the explanation is brief. In truth the meaning of the name says more about the person who "gave" the name than it does about the person to whom it belongs. Either way, it's not worth getting het up about.

2327:

She isn't an only child, she has a brother named Zinan, who is six years her senior. She just happens to be born the same year the policy was introduced to their country. Her mom named them both with "Zi" as middle names, she's stated in magazine articles.

1720:, though I wouldn't describe either site as "commercial", neither has nearly the "objectionable amounts of advertising" that IMDb has. Accordingly, IMDb is far more of a "commercial" site than either of the external links in question, yet is acceptable. 1967:

In particliar, both sites exceed IMDb in terms of overall information offered about the actress. Since the wikipedia community by consensus finds IMDb acceptable, it can serve as a guideline for which external links to accept and which to reject. -

2169:

It's legitimate to mention this as an issue because it caused some controversy in China. It's not about custom - it's customary in China to have the family name first. No Westerner would ever be styled as "Smith John". It just sounds wrong. ~~LP

287:

The "i" in "zi" and "ci" is certainly pronounced, they have the same vowel sound. "Yi" is pronounced as "i" (this "i" is different to the "i" in "zi"), for English speakers it's the long "ee" sound as in "bee", "y" in "yi" is not pronounced.

912:

page and remove from this page, where it should go. You kept making baseless claims (saying people are interested in her name when none here shows any) and you kept saying things like "well, here's what I'm doing here and I don't see why

1343:

The Thatcher in Margaret Thatcher is actually the surname of her husband Denis Thatcher. Unlike the European tradition, Chinese women get to keep their maiden surnames on marriage (maybe the Chinese are less sexist than Europeans).

665:

You are talking gibberish. We are not interested in her surname's meaning. Only you are, please admit it. Out of the three meager persons who discussed it, 2 disapproved of including it. Can you stop being egocentric? You said

521:

it. She has as little control over her appearance but her photo is included. It is of interest to other people. I think the meaning of her surname is also of interest to people. What possible reason would there be to remove it?

306:

pronounce it like the "uh" in "uh-huh", that will be close enough. The second "i" is an "ee" sound, just like the "i" in "prestige". It doesn't matter whether you pronounce the y or not. So, it's basically, "Jahng Dzuh-ee". -

713:

And incidentally I object to you lying about what I want. If you change Hu's page, especially in such an asinine manner, it is your doing, your decision, your obvious strawman example, not mine or anything to do with me.

1037:

I think the meaning of her family name does matter because of her frequent association with Zhang Yimou. It's worth mentioning that their family names are not the same in Chinese although they are pronounced the same.

74:

It needs expansion of course, but I doubt if the second part (about the "She would cry each night and morning, and on one occasion, ran away from the school.") is relevant in a biography. Any second opinions on this?

670:

think it is worth including, two persons have argued that it should not. I would stop this discussion at once if you would remove, it is of no interest to me. You refuse it include it under the proper article of

2256:

I kind of thing Chinese titles for American films (Rush Hour 2) is misleading. I think we should change "Chinese" to "Native" and only use another name if it's the native name of the film. Agree / Disagree?

2119:

Its pretty clear that a random user added the statement, which is nowhere to be found. I have rightfully removed it as clearly it is unfactual and random. As I said, no sources about this could be found.--

1699:

Both play a valuable role in transmuting the latest and detailed Chinese information about Zhang Ziyi into English -- information that goes well beyond the capability and scope of this one Knowledge article

979:

I think that we should explain the meaning of 子怡 in the article somewhere, although it shouldn't go in the lead, because it's not really very important. The meaning of 章 is almost totally irrelevant. -

697:

because they are two different surnames. I agree I said I think it is worth including. I do not think I am alone in that. By all means, have a go with Hu Jintao's name. Let me know how you get on.

1626:

says "Except where noted, the below do not override the list of what should be linked to" which means a link shouldn't be removed if it qualifies under one a the criteria of "what should be linked to".

478:

Can you explain why the fact Zhang means a chapter in a book has any relevance with the actress? Then could you do the grace of explaining what Tony Leung, Zhang Yimou and Chen Kaige's surname mean?

1014:

I agree with Nat- explain her given name in a suitable (i.e. less prominent) place (such as the early life section), but not the surname. And please don't vandalise other articles to make points.

187:

If not, why is a Japanese name added to this article? I bet she is also known by other non-native names in 200 other languages, you cannot add every one of them except her native name in Chinese.

1758:

An anonymous editor took offense and called the deletion vandalism, and repeatedly tried to insert them. I, believing that to be trolling, protected the article, leading to the discussion above.

301:

although I use a "z" when pronouncing her name, I think it's more of an "x." Japanese, on the other hand I think is a whole heck of a lot easier for Americans. But Ziyi of course is Chinese.

200:

I will also say that she's apparently quite famous in Japan for doing a bunch of hair shampoo commericials for Kao Corp., as well as for her role in the upcoming movie "Memoirs of a Geisha".

1405:

Hello people, this is a bigraphy,and this woman is of chinese origin/heritage,i think it necessary to show,the roots of her name dont all you? (those that were in favour of removing it!)

462:

they do not have any Chinese? If I saw an interesting case, I probably would. It is not prominent. It simply follows from the natural place for it - after the characters of her name.

164:

If I remember correctly it was a pornographic picture with ZZY's face photoshoped on it. Not even a particularly good one. I think the present one is a vast improvement. Seriously.

1454:

I've gone ahead with the shortening of the infobox and I've removed the cantonese pengyam from it as well. Feel free to modify it if you're unhappy with any of the changes. Regards. --

608:

relevant to the person, not because I do. You are the only person here who feel it is important. You also fail to answer my question: why do you not include it into the article

1431:

Unless there is a strict format where all actors/actresses names are formatted so, I'm thinking that the screen, birth and alternate names in the infobox can be merged into just

680:

Let's do an experiment. I'll go to Hu Jintao's article and make a note about his surname. Then we'll see how the response is. Meanwhile I'll link that to this discussion.

230:

Good point! I'm going to remove the Cantonese names, which are not "native". If Cantonese names are listed then Chaozhou, Minnan, Xiang, Wu etc should also be included.

503:

Chinese characters evolve through thousands of years. If you want to explain really what those surnames mean, you would go back to the time when surnames are incepted.

1850:

By that standard, nearly any external link will be appropriate, since it will provide some information that go "beyond the article." That will violate the spirit of

118:

Some asshole uploaded that picture with the exact same file name of one I had uploaded months ago. I've reverted that picture vandalism and its all fixed now.--

2196:

Should there be mention of the semi-nude photos of her that have appeared of Zhang Ziyi with her fiance? These have been mentioned in recent new articles, i.e.

616:. It is far more relevant there. Then you can link it to this article. What makes this surname unique just to her and not to millions who share her surname? 114:

I do not believe that the picture displayed with this article is from "Hero" nor is it in any way appropriate for an encyclopedia with such a general audience.

1811:

On articles where I edit frequently I take this on a case-by-case basis and evaluate the content at the site: what does it offer that is unique and important?

918: 1858:

and make Knowledge a link farm. These sites and the information they contain are well-locatable by search engines. For them to belong, there has to be

917:

shouldn't do that." One on one I have nothing to say. If you are really really democratic, you should have gone to the proper channels such as

693:

By "we" I assume you mean "you". The other guy objected to her personal name, not her surname. Self-evidently ZZY's surname does not belong in

1445:

I agree, also as she is not from a Cantonese speaking region, her Cantonese name should be removed, just as her name in Japanese was removed.

1318: 884:

another little one at the end can you? Where have I objected to anyone letting their opinions being known? I have even listened to yours.

2177: 248: 2136: 2329: 2155: 921:

and solicit for opinions, not stick to yours when two had already obviously objected. Anyway, I'll go there and ask for opinions.

2272: 1413: 1412:

No explanation should be given as no explanations for other chinese names are given, all of which can be read to have meaning.

1201:

I would like to know since when do you call your friend/child/student/whatever by the surname or full name? I fully agree with

99: 2461: 1302: 2280:

A bit late, but I agree - there's little point including foreign titles for English-language films on the English WP. I had

2305:

not sound like a name parents would pick out for their baby girl. And she was their only child, too, born 1979, right when

2109:

I added a citation needed to that statment in the article. The statement should be removed if no citation is forthcoming.

2348:

I suggest the filmography table sortable, as per below, so readers can order it by date, or by film title, or director.

2284:

Chinese titles for those films originally released in English, but it looks like someone added them back since then. --

1661:

Neither site has more advertising than the IMDb link you (and the wikipedia community by consensus) find acceptable. -

1776:

What are the precedents for fansites of other celebrities? I suggest following whatever standard applies elsewhere.

1713:

clearly doesn't apply to either external link. Therefore, neither can be arbitrarily considered "spam" by an editor.

965:

I think the giant table about her name (that's under her main picture) is quite enough, if not already excessive. --

2888: 2736: 2376: 38: 2436: 2239: 2205: 2075: 1310: 269:

I'd really like to see an accurate pronunciation key for her name. As it is I have no idea how to pronounce it.

2909: 333:"v". So few Chinese people can say "very well" as Americans do. It could be either "wery well" or "very vell". - 2181: 2150:

Celebrities who have not changed their names to Western still appear with the last name and first afterwards.

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I think a strong and credible argument has been made for the inclusion of the two external links in question:

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These two instances of "Zhāng" look the same to me - should the accent on the "ā" be omitted on one instance?

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You are contradicting yourself. People are complaining because people like me feel the surname's meaning is

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something? In the meantime do you have a point here besides your self-righteous snobbery towards fan boys?

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International Zhang Ziyi fansite, news, extensive filmography and picture gallery, active discussion forum

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Hit F5. Your browser's cache is probably still loading the old version. I encountered the same problem.--

2934: 2030: 1826: 1803: 1727: 95: 1345: 1293:"shu". Do you then, put his name as "tree"? This example works in English also, did you know too, that 1596:

think these sites do). Further, they also qualify as "blogs, social networking sites, or forums."

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And of course if you want to pronounce in the correct way you also need to say it in the right tones.

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Just out of sheer curiosity, what was the picture of exactly?. (12:14, 25 March 2006 24.23.6.222)

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be appropriate, not that it is always appropriate, and even then it only provides for one link.

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Actually, the producers and Chinese titles shouldn't be in the article. A normal table as per

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I think the arguments on both sides have been made. Comments would be appreciated. --

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will be appropriate. I'll file one, and then we'll see what the community thinks. --

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It's fine with me to remove those things about Ziyi as well. Sorry, it's still 2:1.

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information that makes the article incomplete without them, and I don't see any. --

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Inclusion of the two external links falls well within the requirements set forth in

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especially in the first paragraph. I'm editing for the sake of Knowledge quality. --

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Yes, they are spelled the same and pronounced the same, but are written differently.

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fansite just because (for example) she might look particularly hot in its images.

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Oversized photo plus information missing from infobox restored to normal size. --

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If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the

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She is not Japanese, but will she become Jewish if married her current fiance?

234: 217: 204: 191: 168: 133: 103: 79: 2946: 2825: 2059:, under Banquet (2006 Film). Could someone please help me link it? I'm new... 1927: 1446: 1202: 1169: 613: 547:. At present her name's meaning is gibberish: "Chapter, Child of Happiness". 320: 289: 231: 139: 119: 2523: 2368: 2056: 2698: 2151: 1937: 1863: 1762: 1682: 1523: 1505: 2473: 1940: 197:

Name removed for now, I guess you guys can put it back up if you want.

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or English language sources does it say she has a vietnamese mother.

1213:. Ask any administrator, I'll wager they'll probably tell you so. -- 2055:

Hi guys, I've created a site for her latest movie "The Banquet" at

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By removing any mention of sites from the talk page, you violated

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Excuse, you. NO. It's relevant as it is apart of her early life.

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Concrete examples of meaningful, relevant content. Translations:

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These are the sites that I removed, believing them to be spam:

675:, where it should go. You are just being obnoxiously childish. 25: 353:(章) is her surname (not to be confused with the more common 129:

Not as far as I can see it ain't. Clever of whoever it was.

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collecting interviews and media from the Chinese press.

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In response to the linkfarm criticism, I edit at the FA

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conclusion of this discussion and remedy either way? —

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Of course when Chinese names are read out in full it's

1102: 2200:. I have URL's for the pictures if they are desired. 1486: 1726:anything that states neither should be included. — 2198:http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,475809,00.html 1754:Pictures, videos, filmography, articles, forums. 1298:hope that I am not insulting you in any form. -- 2309:took effect, but rather early into the year... 2057:http://en.wikipedia.org/Banquet_%282006_film%29 1644:linked to, rather than worked into the article. 213:On the other hand she isn't Cantonese either. 70:Biography - short and perhaps irrelevant info? 8: 1825:whole point of providing external links. — 919:Knowledge talk:Naming conventions (Chinese) 732:apply to Zhang Ziyi, why not to Hu Jintao? 1561:only covers external links added by bots. 1435:since they just repeat the same info. -- 1789:Well, precedents do vary. For example, 1493:Please do not delete these sites ... - 44:Do not edit the contents of this page. 183:Is she Japanese? and non-native names 7: 349:"Among the characters of her name, 1553:Please explain which provision of 24: 1677:Upon further thought, I think an 29: 1490:and hence should be linked to. 2462:Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon 2045:00:50, 17 September 2006 (UTC) 2034:22:25, 13 September 2006 (UTC) 2011:15:16, 12 September 2006 (UTC) 1973:14:21, 12 September 2006 (UTC) 1872:11:33, 12 September 2006 (UTC) 1830:11:04, 12 September 2006 (UTC) 1816:23:58, 11 September 2006 (UTC) 1807:22:30, 11 September 2006 (UTC) 1781:00:31, 11 September 2006 (UTC) 1591:They violate the provision of 1: 2381:20:30, 24 February 2010 (UTC) 2358:18:55, 24 February 2010 (UTC) 2322:03:52, 14 February 2009 (UTC) 2164:05:01, 10 February 2010 (UTC) 2080:15:20, 8 September 2006 (UTC) 1771:05:05, 9 September 2006 (UTC) 1731:12:42, 9 September 2006 (UTC) 1691:05:02, 9 September 2006 (UTC) 1666:20:01, 8 September 2006 (UTC) 1579:17:24, 7 September 2006 (UTC) 1532:16:42, 7 September 2006 (UTC) 1498:13:31, 7 September 2006 (UTC) 1487:http://en.wikipedia.org/WP:EL 2387: 2338:19:59, 3 February 2010 (UTC) 2244:05:00, 14 January 2009 (UTC) 2226:10:41, 10 January 2009 (UTC) 1514:How are they compliant with 1504:Note: site links removed by 1422:23:24, 7 February 2008 (UTC) 338:02:39, 10 October 2006 (UTC) 257:13:52, 19 January 2009 (UTC) 205:17:17, 1 November 2005 (UTC) 192:09:54, 1 November 2005 (UTC) 142:13:48, August 6, 2005 (UTC) 2745:Sayuri Nitta/Chiyo Sakamoto 2695:Young Mo/Young Li/Young Hua 2210:04:50, 6 January 2009 (UTC) 1401:22:38, 27 September 2006 (U 408:section if there is one. -- 122:13:37, August 6, 2005 (UTC) 2965: 2889:The Founding of a Republic 2294:06:06, 17 March 2009 (UTC) 2124:06:39, 18 April 2007 (UTC) 2114:21:45, 17 April 2007 (UTC) 2103:10:56, 17 April 2007 (UTC) 970:22:06, 29 April 2006 (UTC) 926:16:04, 29 April 2006 (UTC) 889:15:43, 29 April 2006 (UTC) 863:15:39, 29 April 2006 (UTC) 837:15:29, 29 April 2006 (UTC) 811:15:20, 29 April 2006 (UTC) 784:15:17, 29 April 2006 (UTC) 758:15:11, 29 April 2006 (UTC) 737:15:06, 29 April 2006 (UTC) 719:14:53, 29 April 2006 (UTC) 703:14:50, 29 April 2006 (UTC) 685:14:37, 29 April 2006 (UTC) 651:14:10, 29 April 2006 (UTC) 621:13:52, 29 April 2006 (UTC) 578:13:45, 29 April 2006 (UTC) 552:13:36, 29 April 2006 (UTC) 526:12:46, 29 April 2006 (UTC) 508:12:39, 29 April 2006 (UTC) 494:12:23, 29 April 2006 (UTC) 483:11:54, 29 April 2006 (UTC) 427:11:13, 24 April 2006 (UTC) 413:04:50, 23 April 2006 (UTC) 381:16:27, 20 April 2006 (UTC) 367:16:01, 20 April 2006 (UTC) 279:12:50, 25 March 2006 (UTC) 218:17:56, 12 March 2006 (UTC) 169:12:50, 25 March 2006 (UTC) 134:13:42, 6 August 2005 (UTC) 104:02:50, 6 August 2008 (UTC) 2275:) 15:23, February 7, 2009 1752:HelloZiyi.us - Zhang Ziyi 1600:suggests that linking to 1468:17:29, 28 June 2006 (UTC) 1349:03:48, 24 June 2007 (UTC) 1218:13:02, 29 June 2006 (UTC) 1173:18:18, 28 June 2006 (UTC) 1140:17:29, 28 June 2006 (UTC) 1114:17:05, 28 June 2006 (UTC) 1084:15:17, 28 June 2006 (UTC) 1066:14:16, 28 June 2006 (UTC) 1050:06:31, 25 June 2006 (UTC) 952:14:35, 28 June 2006 (UTC) 467:15:17, 28 June 2006 (UTC) 445:14:22, 28 June 2006 (UTC) 422:do so for Maggie Cheung! 80:11:45, 14 July 2007 (UTC) 2186:07:43, 12 May 2010 (UTC) 2154:is one example of this. 2145:03:45, 31 May 2008 (UTC) 1459:21:29, 28 May 2006 (UTC) 1450:06:42, 26 May 2006 (UTC) 1440:00:58, 26 May 2006 (UTC) 1322:16:38, 6 July 2006 (UTC) 1256:16:15, 4 July 2006 (UTC) 2662:House of Flying Daggers 2612:My Wife is a Gangster 2 1793:has 10 external links, 1032:16:49, 3 May 2006 (UTC) 1021:20:21, 2 May 2006 (UTC) 1005:23:56, 1 May 2006 (UTC) 985:19:58, 1 May 2006 (UTC) 324:04:43, 8 May 2006 (UTC) 311:06:55, 5 May 2006 (UTC) 293:22:29, 2 May 2006 (UTC) 235:22:29, 2 May 2006 (UTC) 2087:She is NOT vietnamese 42:of past discussions. 1427:Shorten the infobox? 1409:10:07 10 April 2007 2737:Memoirs of a Geisha 2234:All right, thanks. 1896:Again, the text of 1557:they both violate? 1508:pending discussion. 2814:Forever Enthralled 2413:Touching Starlight 2051:The Banquet (2006) 1166:surname+given name 2952: 2951: 2300:Her Chinese name? 2263:comment added by 2176:comment added by 2130:Forename, surname 2101:comment added at 2083: 2066:comment added by 1795:Leonardo Dicaprio 1295:Margaret Thatcher 106: 90:comment added by 67: 66: 54: 53: 48:current talk page 2956: 2864:Sophie's Revenge 2712:Princess Raccoon 2595:Cynthia/Ding Hui 2587:Purple Butterfly 2545:Princess Bu-yong 2512:The Legend of Zu 2386: 2320: 2312: 2307:One Child Policy 2276: 2188: 2106: 2094:Marquis_de_chine 2082: 2060: 1936:- News archives 1316: 1305: 1207:personal attacks 1107:personal attacks 489:you exclude it? 85: 63: 56: 55: 33: 32: 26: 2964: 2963: 2959: 2958: 2957: 2955: 2954: 2953: 2720:Princess Tanuki 2624:Jeong Heung-sun 2379: 2346: 2318: 2310: 2302: 2258: 2254: 2236:Sephiroth storm 2202:Sephiroth storm 2194: 2171: 2132: 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