Template talk:History of Vietnam

2900: 2633:

Russian, and Lithuanian colonists, yet people rarely see Polish and Soviet colonial policies in regions regions displacing the indigenous Germans as "brutal and evil". Comparatively, in Israel and the Palestine the "colonisation" is mostly just immigration (no different from the immigration we see in the West today). Meanwhile in Vietnam the colonisation of Vietnam by Chinese settlers was mostly military in nature as the Chinese sought to patrol the military frontiers, several periods of mass Chinese migration affected the demographics of Vietnam to the point where modern Kinh people are a mixture of the Chinese colonisers and the Pre-Chinese people, it would be very disingenuous to exclusive associate Việt Nam with the Au-Lac peoples and not with the Chinese settlers. Under Chinese rule Việt Nam was administered as an integral Chinese territory and not a colonial regime until the establishment of the Annan Jiedushi. Meanwhile French colonialism was completely different as barely any French settlers lived in the region and the French treated French Indo-China as politically separate from the French "mother city" exploiting it for economic gains.

3125:"Trước kia tại vị trí này là Nam Khuyết Đài, xây dựng đầu thời Gia Long. Trên đài này có điện Càn Nguyên (乾元殿), hai bên có hai cửa là Tả Đoan Môn (左端門) và Hữu Đoan Môn (右端門). Đến năm Minh Mạng thứ 14 (1833) khi triều Nguyễn tổ chức quy hoạch lại toàn bộ mặt bằng kiến trúc Hoàng thành, Nam Khuyết Đài bị giải thể hoàn toàn để lấy chỗ xây dựng Ngọ Môn. Về mặt từ nguyên, Ngọ Môn có nghĩa là chiếc cổng xây mặt về hướng Ngọ. Hướng này, theo quan niệm của địa lý phong thủy phương Đông là hướng Nam. Hướng của Ngọ Môn cũng như toàn bộ Kinh thành Huế trên thực tế là hướng càn - tốn (tây bắc - đông nam) nhưng vẫn được xem là hướng Ngọ (hướng nam). Theo Dịch học hướng nam là hướng dành cho bậc vua Chúa để "nhi thính thiên hạ, hướng minh nhi trị" (chữ Hán: 而聽天下, 向明而治, tạm dịch: hướng về ánh sáng để nghe thiên hạ và cai trị thiên hạ một cách sáng suốt)." Source: 2241: 3188:" This is clear Sinocentric non-sense, as noted above wherever Chinese characters are used they are localised, the Vietnamese themselves have used them to represent themselves and their history for the entirety of the recorded history of Vietnam until roughly 1933 to 1945 (1954 if you count North Vietnamese banknotes and South Vietnamese seals). Chinese characters are not "strongly characteristic of China", would you call Kanji in Japan as "being characteristic of China"? Latin script isn't the exclusive domain of Italy either, nobody would claim that it's "Italocentrism" / "Latinocentrism" to write English in Latin script rather than Runic script. -- 2899: 2325: 2229: 2301: 2265: 1116:, the image was created specifically to illustrate various periods of Vietnamese history. It replaced the blue dragon that I deliberately added to the background and the text "History of Vietnam" written in three (3) scripts that were used to write the Vietnamese language throughout its history. The map is a lot less neutral as it only shows the Eastern Indochinese peninsula during a single year and was created by Europeans, while this image shows the changing Vietnamese language over the centuries with a Vietnamese dragon, the symbol of the Vietnamese realm for over millennia. 71: 53: 2129: 2054: 1974: 1953: 2352: 2640:" None of this makes sense, using Traditional Chinese characters is not "sinocentrism" and using Latin script is not "Eurocentrism", what other script should the Vietnamese use then? Arabic? Devanagari? Throughout Vietnamese history the Vietnamese themselves used Traditional Chinese characters until they slowly switched to Latin script, the indigenous Vietnamese administration elected to use Classical Chinese and it was the Nguyễn Dynasty itself that implemented Latin script which became the exclusive script during the Democratic Republic of Việt-Nam period. 3073:" this is like claiming "People don't need to understand Latin first before studying European history". No serious historian would take someone serious attempting to study the history of the place without being familiar with the language. It doesn't matter if the Meridian Gate in Huế is different from the one in Beijing, it still only represents a single dynasty in Vietnamese history, namely the Nguyễn Dynasty. As a symbol of enduring Vietnamese history the One-Pillar Pagoda is a much better symbol as it was in the capital of numerous Vietnamese dynasties. 1203: 1097: 1921: 3173:" Is a gross misrepresentation of what Traditional Chinese characters are in Vietnamese history, for example the term "Phòng" could be written as "妨", "房", "肪", and / or "防", in this case Latin script is a puzzle with missing pieces that Traditional Chinese characters provide. Traditional Chinese characters are used to write Sino-Vietnamese vocabulary, the term "History of Vietnam" in Vietnamese is a completely Sinitic phrase. You seem to think that Traditional Chinese characters were 2443:, it is primarily a decorative tradition that (like Chinese calligraphy in Mainland China and Taiwan) has lost most of its relevance in people's daily lives beyond ceremonial and decorative purposes. In fact, Chinese seal script hasn't been used in any official purposes for over half a century anywhere in the world other than Taiwan and even in Taiwan the ability to read Chinese seal script is a rarity, I have several Taiwanese friends with Master's degrees and PhD's and literally 325:", even though they're the same. Also, the Vietnamese word "Bắc thuộc" in the dictionary, it really means "Northern dependency" or "Northern domination", and sometime it is also translated as "Period of domination by Northern invaders". So, may you change all 4 period of "Chinese domination" become "Northern dependency" or "Northern domination", ex. "First Northern domination". I tell you my idea, I don't want to use any name from foreign countries in this Vietnamese template. 22: 2277: 2692:), but you reveal your ignorance in these statements. South Koreans still study and use Hanja today, Japanese people (including Okinawans) still use Kanji today, and for thousands of years the Vietnamese used Hán tự (until as recently as the 1950's). These are templates about the histories of these places, Japanese people still use Kanji today, Koreans and Vietnamese people have used Traditional Chinese characters for most of their history. 2367:" use the One Pillar Pagoda, but not just the One Pillar Pagoda, it's located right behind the text making the last parts difficult to read if the image is only a small part of the article, something which a template header literally is. Furthermore, the reason why the "History of Hanoi" image uses the One Pillar Pagoda is because it's an ancient structure that has seen almost a millennium of Hanoi's history, basing this on the " 1905: 2013: 1997: 2253: 2289: 3209:. I'm warning you of personal attacks for using such word as "gross" during discussion. As you said,"the term "History of Vietnam" in Vietnamese is a completely Sinitic phrase", there is no localization. It is an imported phrase that no longer used by Vietname pepeople. Therefore it is not suitable to server as a symbol for Vietnam history. Besides, there is no such red chop as History of Vietnam at all. 2452: 81: 2313: 1884: 153: 135: 2343:, and thank you for trying to improve these images, I would like to discuss some aspects of them and enquire about a number of choices made in your versions. First (1st) of all thank you for the improvements that you did make, as these are highly visible images which appear on a lot of frequently visited pages concerning the histories of Vietnam, Huế, and Hanoi. 2572:(歷史越南) using the up-to-down-left-to-right writing style (though as far as I can tell even modern Vietnamese Chinese seal script seals are up-to-down-right-to-left). Alternatively, the image could have also been made to remove the prominence of Traditional Chinese characters from the image, we can't know until the author themselves clarify their motivations. 163: 486:, the first Chinese domination started in 111 BC, the Later Le Dynasty ended in 1527 and continued in 1533, the DRVN last continuously until 1976 and there is no interruption. Although in 1949 the State of Vietnam was formed, but the DRVN still existed, both declared themselves the governments of VN, there's no boundary between 2 gov. until 1954. 2032: 755:. Vietnam had been divided several times in its history: during the 12-Warlord period, the Le-Mac division, Trinh-Nguyen division, Tay Son-Trinh-Nguyen division. The 20th century division is NOT the most precious one of its kind to be in the template. No need N-S Vietnam and Socialist Republic either because we already have the super article 332:"Northern domination" might be understandable in Vietnamese context, but in English the reader might not know who the "northerners" are. Saying "Northern domination" is also not neutral, since it's clearly in the POV of the Vietnamese. Saying "Chinese domination" makes it perfectly clear who the invaders are and does not use anyone's POV. 2460: 2448:

Etc. can read Chinese seal script today? Calligraphers, beyond those with an interest in calligraphy the ability to read and write Chinese seal script is rare. Calligraphers have a place in society, but I wouldn't say that beyond those who have a fondness of tradition that they enjoy much success or influence.

2791:

Chinese only ruled the northern part of the Vietnam during sometime in hisotry. That doen't make Vietnam history Chinese. Throughout Vietnam history, the indigenous Vietnam pepeople clashed with Chinese intruders and gained fully independence. It is very biased to present Vietnam history with Chinese

2594:

Everyone knows that either Chinese and French languages are forced upon Vietnam throughout its history as they were colonizers, brutal evil colonialists, inspirations for fascist regimes like Adolf Hitler's Lebensraum and Israeli colonisation of Palestine. Using colonialists' language as the headline

1100:

A French-language map made in 1653, it doesn't show the evolution of Vietnam throughout the centuries and is a clear example of a "Vietnam" defined by foreigners. Plus the map isn't even an accurate representation of the area's geography, as it has many errors typical in old maps, this wouldn't be an

419:

stop pretending that everyone believes that the Trieu dynsaty was a period of Chinese domination? The template as it stands does not reflect reality. There are still history books out there that list the Trieu dynasty as a Vietnamese dynasty. So would be all right to fix the template to reflect this?

3025:

Meridian Gate(s). Additionally, the Nguyễn Dynasty governed Vietnam from 1802 until 1945, almost all previous and later ruling states ruled from Hanoi, not Huế. Lachy70's image represents Hanoi, Vietnam's capital city for literally thousands of years. Hanoi is also Vietnam's current capital city, so

2632:

included the idea that the Slavic populations of Eastern Europe needed to be exterminated and completely replaced by German colonists, after World War II the Communists completely removed the indigenous German populations of Silesia, Further Pomerania, and East Prussia and replaced them with Polish,

2518:

I'd argue that the text being on top of a transparent Chinese dragon works for the "History of Vietnam" image because the Chinese dragon is both very recognisable and visible, but for the "History of Hanoi" and "History of Huế" images the images of the One Pillar Pagoda and the City Walls of Huế are

3051:

is very different from that in Beijing. This historic building has itw own Vietnam characters and can serve as a symbol of Vietnam history. Chinese characters have never been a symbol of Vietnam history. People don't need to understand Chinese characters first before studying Vietname history. Your

2527:

I admit that I don't think that my designs are perfect either, for example the "History of Huế" image was created using an old French Indo-Chinese banknote and the robot I employed to remove the background didn't properly do it at the flagpole, so I can see why the entire flagpole area was removed,

2456: 2407:

website). In fact, I specifically created the "History of Hanoi" image because I thought that it would "look cool" to emulate the "History of Vietnam" image for Hanoi (as I'm planning on writing almost a dozen articles about Hanoian history) "but with a good local symbol" and used the San Francisco

1176:

Another thing is that many country history sidebar templates often use coats of arms or symbols that represented the country for a long time, the Vietnamese dragon and seal were state symbols of Vietnam for the majority of its history and Vietnamese dragons were used as state symbols well until the

679:

You're not being "harassed" you've been reverted for edit warring and because changes 1 and 2 were detrimental to the template. The 3rd set of changes would contribute to the template, even though the timeline article the template links to is missing the 1945-1976 sections. You're more than welcome

650:

Kauffner, User:P.T. Aufrette described your tone of speaking with other editors as "snark". Do you realise how the way you talk to other users sounds? Yes, I have created and worked on WP Vietnam's history and prehistory articles, but the reason I reverted you was because you were edit warring, and

519:

Ha ha ha. Don't you realized that template is nonsense and wrong. Also there are several discussions about it in the talk page in Vietnamese wiki, but no one answers, those administrators in Vietnamese wiki had lock the temple for themselves so nominal users can't edit. So it's wrong, why should we

2509:

too big, it looks like the main text is the seal and the Latin and Traditional Chinese texts are only secondary to the seal, as noted before based on the design by user "Lệ Xuân", the seal is also somewhat decorative and shouldn't be the main focus, rather (I think) it should be on a largely equal

1170:

reformers and Republican revolutionaries to emulate the French. As the history and the culture of Vietnam is shaped by its relationships with historical "Chinese" and French domination then it wouldn't be unreasonable to try and convey this through the scripts used to write the Vietnamese language

931:

knows that “dynasty” is supposed be lower cased, and that the names of Vietnamese dynasties should be given without diacritics. The chart should look the way it might if it appeared in a reference work edited by professional copy editors who follow style guides, without idiosyncratic spellings and

885:

And I don't see the 20th century and the war are greater periods here. The only reason people treat it great and importance is ONLY because....................it recently happened in the previous century. 500 or 1000 years later, I bet nobody gonna treats the 20th century greater anymore. They say

2972:

is Sinocentrism. Furthermore, all the characters used in the template are used to transcribe Vietnamese words, that is literally the definition of Hán-Nôm. In fact, historically the Vietnamese didn't differentiate between the characters (Traditional Chinese Vs. Nôm) but rather language (Classical

2447:

of them can read Chinese seal script, beyond Taiwanese (Republic of China) government institutions and Japanese national government ceremonies nobody actually uses Chinese seal script in any official capacity anywhere in the world, so who in modern Vietnam, mainland China, Hong Kong, South Korea,

2806:

When did I talk about China ruling Vietnam? You are just grasping at straws here and viewing history through a modern nationalistic lens. Vietnam itself used Chinese characters for the vast majority of its history while independent. There is no rule on the race or ethnicity of editors on certain

857:

Periods that are of greater interest should be covered in greater detail. Doesn't everyone realize that a huge percentage of the interest in Vietnam relates to the war? In Vietnamese usage, the republic is South Vietnam. It doesn't matter how the Syrians or Egyptians do it. The Hong Bang dynasty

2411:

In fact, because I liked the result of the "History of Hanoi" image I made separate ones for Haiphong, Hồ Chí Minh City, and Huế. The idea behind them is that they should showcase something local to the area but emulate the style of the national image (which itself is a localised version of the

3177:

used by the common people but this is objectively not true as all levels of government and administration used them for the vast majority of Vietnamese history. Chinese characters were localised wherever they arrived, even in China southern Chinese languages use Chinese characters in ways that

3104:

Like you said, Chinese characters are only meaningful to serious historian. For common people studying Vietnam history in Wiki, Chinese characters are puzzles. Chinese characters are strongly characteristic of China and have nothing Vietnamese. That's why it is not appropriate to use Chinese

361:

You have to rename that page first. Standard Knowledge (XXG) practice links directly, not to redirects. As discussed ad naseum in the Vietnamese Knowledge (XXG), the two world wars have limited effect in Vietnam and are not considered periods in Vietnamese history by mainstream historians.

2494:" (the original base on which all other Sinitic history template headers are based) as a point of comparison, the original design by user "Lệ Xuân" includes a seal which is only slightly bigger as each of the traditional Chinese characters next to it, I tried emulating this style but I 223:

An anonymous user keeps making unnecessary additions this template. The period before history was written down, by definition, is "prehistory" and does not belong in "history". The Hong Bang section barely fits the description of "history" because there is no evidence of it.

3086:

Sure, for Vietnamese history from 1945 Traditional Chinese characters have become less important to largely irrelevant, but for literally all of the recorded history of Vietnam until 1933~1945 Traditional Chinese characters have been paramount in understanding Vietnamese

3151:

is a building influenced by Chinese structures but has its own unique Vietnam characterisctcs. That is exactly what Vietnam history and culture is. Chinese characters on the other hand have nothing Vietnanese inside, therefore not appropriate to reprent Vietnam history.

461:

I'd go for when it was in power. But then it gets muddy in some instances, like the Later Le Dynasty and the Mac Dynasty, who competed for power in different regions. I'm sure the PRG also held power in areas in the South during various stages of the war.

2481:

So the question remains, "how relevant has Latin Vietnamese calligraphic writing ever been in Vietnamese history?" Based on what I have been able to find I would say "Not very (relevant), beyond its continued usage in traditional holidays and festivals".

2240: 2637:

Using colonialists' language as the headline to define the country's history is at best the racist colonizer's mentality of imposing, subjugating his worldview into the "Other". Sinocentrism and Eurocentrism, oppose each other, but sharing the same

2408:

commemorative stamp as a basis for this separate image, but by giving both the Vietnamese national and Hanoian local history templates the same background image it actually takes away from the "uniqueness" of Hanoi's local and distinct history.

1076:

government is a relevant period as they occupied Southern Vietnam for a year before the official unification and had a separate government, bureaucracy, and currency (the Liberation Dong) before merging with the Democratic Republic of Viet Nam.

2463:. I'd argue that to some extend the continued existence of Vietnamese calligraphy is an anachronism where a Chinese literary cultural tradition has persisted long after the abolition of Chinese scripts in the country (exactly like how modern 2711:

Also, just because this is the English-language Knowledge (XXG) doesn't mean that we can exclusively use illustrative images that contain English, I've seen plenty of old maps completely in Latin or other languages used for these template

924:

Golly, who could this be? I know you’ve heard it all before, but since you’re pretending to be someone new, I’ll play along: Using Viet-lish doesn’t make a patriotic statement. It just makes people think you can’t write English correctly.

2191:

good changes, but fucks up every page the template is used on.... Some change needs to be done so this is not the case before it can be used! (ps. dont change the link to the navbar to "History of Viet Nam"), it doesnt link correctly

950:"Who could I be" doesn't matter. The only matter is that I don't abuse multiple accounts in a same article/page/template. Did you read my words carefully? I told you to go ahead with your desire and decapitalize the word "dynasty" in 2688:, the idea that Traditional Chinese characters are exclusively Chinese would be like claiming that using Latin script outside of Italy would be "italocentrism". I wasn't the person who originally added it to the Ryūkyūan template ( 801:

I want to keep all period balanced. The Hong Bang period, right away, go all the way for more than 2000 years. But all the other periods last no more than 550 years. So I divided up the Hong Bang period to maintain the almost same

2839:

No, writing is not a small aspect of history, it is one of the primary ways history is recorded and told. Yes people know Vietnamese people speak Vietnamese, therefore the official language and scripts they used is represented.

2201:

like some of these changes and brought a different version of this template here for scrutiny, but I think that it would work better if it collapsible like the current template. I think perhaps we could make a version based on

3223:

Pointing out bits and pieces of Vietnamese artifacts or lack thereof and idiosyncracies isn't an argument. It doesn't negate other facets of Vietnamese history like Chinese script, cultural influence, and its representation.

2624:" the language of the image was Vietnamese written in 3 (three) different scripts, the usage of Latin script doesn't mean that it's "French" nor does the usage of Traditional Chinese characters indicate that it's "Chinese". " 2762:

Chinese characters had been completed abandoned in Vietnam. There is nothing wrong not to have Chinese characters here and other Asian country history template. Please stop pushing sinocentrism and causing edit disputes.

2510:

footing with the other scripts as Chinese seal script was the script of Ancient Vietnam while Traditional Chinese characters represent Imperial Vietnam, and Latin script the Vietnamese government from 1933~1934 onwards.

3075:

You have not presented a single refutation to any argument anyone has presented other than "Chinese characters shouldn't be used outside of China to represent anything because that is Sinocentric" (which is essentially

2491: 2368: 2037: 862:

The Hung kings are a story for children, all about kings who ruled for 150 years each, dragon lords, immoral fairies, and babies who were hatched from eggs. As far as capitalizing "dynasty" goes, I wrote about that

2595:

to define the country's history is at best the racist colonizer's mentality of imposing, subjugating his worldview into the "Other". Sinocentrism and Eurocentrism, oppose each other, but sharing the same fashion.

3130:

The fate was specifically modelled on the Beijing one and was built according to the specifications of Fengshui. It's pretty difficult to argue that Fengshui is somehow "less Chinese" or "less Sinocentric".

2671:, making Asian history looks like Chinese. It is "sinocentrism". These countries had abandoned Chinese characters. People in these countries don't know Chinese characters, besides it is English Wiki. 2423:. What I'm trying to say is that the Chinese dragon works as an abstract representation of Vietnamese history because it's a symbol shared both throughout Vietnam and throughout Vietnamese history. 1123:" in a single image that only shows Vietnam in a single year and isn't even in Vietnamese that the map fails in many places where the Vietnamese-language changing over the many centuries doesn't. -- 2825:

throughout their history. You are making too big deal that they once used Chinese characters as a writing tool. Europeans used Latin in history. Writing characters is only small aspect of history.

2956:

and he's the most well-known Vietnamese independence advocate and nationalist. You seem to ascribe modern motions of "Chinese characters = Chinese" which makes even less sense when you claim that

2617: 2602: 2541: 3021:

Meridian Gate is the main gate to the Purple Forbidden City, a city designed to be exactly like the Chinese Purple Forbidden Cities in Nanjing and Beijing, the main gates there also being the

835:. I didn't know who made the Hong Bang division, but I could see immediately that dividing 2000 years made good sense. Common sense, and the comparison with the Egypt template is reasonable. 2441:

no matter what some Chinese nationalists / East Asian Vietnam-Exclusionists who claim that Vietnam's inclusion in the Sinosphere is "Not reflective of East Asian context of article" think

960:

and then you will meet with opposition from some extremist protectors of that template. Here is no exception. There are still countless articles out there with capitalizing "dynasty".

780:

1958–1971, and afterwards Arab Republic of Egypt. But there no need to fill out all different governments/country names. The most useful idea to simplify the template is only to put

2478:, but even in this case the Latinised Vietnamese is written on the "Grand sceau de l'Etat du Vietnam" are used using modern standard Latin letters and not Vietnamese calligraphy. 2519:

deliberately kept separate from the text to keep the images readable for all screen sizes. The newer versions of these images all fail at this (see the side-by-side comparison).

2228: 2777:

Was Vietnam's history sinocentric for using Chinese characters for the vast majority of its history? History is not just about the modern day, that is why it is called history.

1177:

mid-1970's and traditional Chinese-style seals until the 1950's. I am really curious for the argument that makes an old French map of "Annam" more neutral than this image. --

2375:

and I didn't want to remove it. Throughout most of Vietnamese history the dragon has been the symbol of the state, meanwhile the image of the One Pillar Pagoda comes from a

980:

this sidebar is currently using colouring to distinguish between BC and AD, which is problematic for screen readers and the colour blind. I plan to fix this in a moment.

505:

article's history template shows Bắc thuộc lần I (207 TCN - 40) and Nhà Triệu (207 - 111 TCN), which is similar to the template's dating before you started to change it.--

2160: 3171:

For common people studying Vietnam history in Wiki, Chinese characters are puzzles. Chinese characters are strongly characteristic of China and have nothing Vietnamese.

2903:

A report by the National History Office of the Nguyễn Dynasty dated Duy Tân 3 (1909) regarding official government history books. Note that it's completely written in

2560:

have seen the Traditional Chinese characters as "redundant" because it already included Chinese seal script characters, though the seal they made seems to read either

2471: 897:. See, even well-know civilizations like Sumer and Egypt has some child-style stuffs. So it's no exception when the history of Hong Bang is mixed with some legends. 2324: 2300: 100:, an attempt to create a comprehensive, neutral, and accurate representation of Vietnam on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the 2264: 577:

Does any RS refer to the post-1945 period as "Republic"? It strikes me as an unusual terminology. There should separate entries for 1945-1975 and post-1975.

1171:

in. If someone replaces an image with one that is allegedly "more neutral" they should articulate what possible "neutrality issues" the replaced image has.

2475: 2646:

of this depict the Vietnamese as "the other"? Or are you implying that using the Vietnamese language to depict Vietnamese history is "at best racist"? --

2622:

Everyone knows that either Chinese and French languages are forced upon Vietnam throughout its history as they were colonizers, brutal evil colonialists

2440: 1795: 3279: 3264: 3178:

northern Chinese don't and give versa, on top of that there's Korean Gukja, Japanese Kokuji, and Vietnamese Nôm script that are localisations that

900:

According to your past comments about the word "dynasty". You did mention Chinese dynasties. I challenge you to decapitalize the word "dynasty" in

3284: 3269: 2792:

characters, promoted by Chinese editors. It is also not a good way to show Chinse pride. In the opposite, it instead promtes anti-China sentiment.

2499: 3147:

The characistics of Vietnam history and culture is that it has Chinese influence, but not totally Chinese and has its own unique characteritics.

2498:

make the seal significantly bigger in comparison because I was now working with 3 (three) scripts instead of only 2 (two). The end result showed

2372: 2276: 2178: 3274: 2087: 3289: 2400: 427: 1050:, the one who suddenly appeared and changed new skin is the one who started the war. B4 u came here, everything was fine, isn't it?????? ༆ ( 185: 2380: 1720: 1398: 1078: 3084:" while being the opposite of neutral as you make the positive claim that Chinese characters are the exclusive cultural domain of China). 553:

probably should be ignored for the time being. This user has been suspected of sockpuppetry and a case will be brought against him soon.

234:

To the anonymous user who wants this page unprotected. Please discuss here and state your reasons for making the changes that you made.

3120: 1463: 1352: 2949: 2606: 2470:

Yes, both the heads of the State of Vietnam and the Democratic Republic of Vietnam used classical Chinese-style seals, as can be seen

2859: 2355:

A side-by-side comparison of how these images look, as you can see the text is far less recognisable on the images on the right side.

773: 271: 927: 3027: 781: 2626:

brutal evil colonialists, inspirations for fascist regimes like Adolf Hitler's Lebensraum and Israeli colonisation of Palestine.

1138:

I am also curious how the replaced image needed "Neutralization" (SIC) as I can't see anything that's not neutral about it, the

176: 140: 101: 95: 58: 2459:

are written in standardised Latin script. Even on documents where handwritten Traditional Chinese characters were still found,

1537: 1449: 1146:

the "old" image hence I incorporated it into it rather than fully replacing it. At most I can see that someone would say that

1023:

What makes it better when it makes the template wider? Oh wait, all u discuss is about the color, nothing about the style. ༆ (

33: 2941: 2114: 1158:

can be seen as some sort of "foreign domination" by many Vietnamese ultranationalists, but the same argument can be used for

1147: 619: 609: 3186:

Chinese characters on the other hand have nothing Vietnanese inside, therefore not appropriate to reprent Vietnam history.

533: 2689: 2396: 2186: 756: 720: 705: 615:

Change 2 - the stripping of Vietnamese names - should have been mentioned in edit summary as per DHN's comment on revert.

2079: 524:(first Chinese domination) started in 111 BC, which means Trieu Dynasty is an independence dynasty ruling Vietnam, (ex: 348: 2351: 2153: 1582: 2095: 2091: 2083: 1202: 592:

I don't understand the problem with pipelinks. But I can take them out if there is no objection to the other changes.

3126: 2252: 267: 2968:

meaning that you seem to think that Chinese characters are the exclusive cultural and historical property of China,

2628:" None of these are even remotely comparable to the types of colonialism Vietnam experienced, the German concept of 2664: 1567: 1544: 1096: 636:

Oh my. This is a surprise. Don't tell me. I want to guess. You worked on Vietnamese archaeology in the late 1950s?

541: 491: 244: 2288: 2146: 1307: 2668: 2364: 2203: 1820: 954: 904: 788: 766: 451: 431: 2312: 2128: 2053: 1973: 1952: 1277: 1237: 910:. Then I'm pretty sure some extremist guardians of that template will revert immediately. The same occurs here. 2388: 2103: 70: 52: 3148: 3077: 3048: 2807:

topics, certainly not when the history itself supports the representation of the script they used themselves.

2415:

Does it work as a symbol for Vietnam? Yeah, but I'm sure that people from Southern Vietnam might say that the

1082: 893:. A king ruled for 28,800 years? Holy god. A king ruled for 36,000 years? You'd gotta be kidding me. And also 39: 2416: 1513: 886:"Việt Nam Cộng hòa" to prefer to South Vietnam, yes. And "Cộng hòa" alone doesn't simply refer to that state. 529: 2360: 840: 795: 734: 656: 627: 2598: 1735: 423: 263: 3195: 3137: 3094: 3037: 2978: 2752: 2719: 2701: 2653: 2580: 2432: 2211: 1920: 1478: 1182: 1128: 1013: 999: 378: 2858:. French and Vietnam pepople also ruled Vitenam, and Latin was also used. Anyway, this template is more 550: 537: 487: 382: 352: 326: 296: 275: 184:

on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join

2854:

Chinese characters used in Vietnan history are not purely Chinese. They were imported and coined, like

1846: 274:", unfortunately it's a talk page, can you make it become an official article, because I can't log in. 831:

Waorca, thank you for your work on this template/these articles. I fully agree with all the above: No

3229: 2845: 2812: 2782: 1757: 1628: 832: 777: 752: 700: 510: 447: 248: 3081: 2936:

Up until the 1930's Vietnamese history books issued by the Vietnamese government were completely in

2182: 2822: 2500:

Chinese seal script characters that were around the same size as the Traditional Chinese characters

2436: 1771: 1742: 1612: 1441: 1107: 2392: 1890: 1167: 2464: 1209: 1163: 1120: 1038: 985: 937: 894: 890: 872: 836: 730: 670: 652: 641: 623: 597: 582: 558: 318: 3210: 3166: 3153: 3106: 3066: 3053: 2863: 2826: 2793: 2764: 2685: 2672: 1382: 1369: 1337: 381:

are also not periods but events. But I can tell you real reason why I want to add 2 world wars.

2536:) both look a bit too small, though this is mostly because I couldn't resize those elements in 2246:

The original right-to-left concept by user "Lệ Xuân" (麗春), which the rest of these all emulate.

1871: 1862: 3206: 3191: 3133: 3090: 3033: 2974: 2937: 2904: 2748: 2715: 2697: 2649: 2576: 2565: 2553: 2207: 1925: 1178: 1139: 1124: 1010: 996: 2185:" changed this template to a version of the above (or to the right for desktop users), later 1831: 1675: 2376: 2099: 2003: 1911: 965: 915: 810: 694: 322: 1824: 1787: 1485: 1427: 1412: 1254: 1051: 1024: 1009:

The background colouring is a bit much, we should consider removing that as well. Thanks!

502: 483: 3225: 3214: 3157: 3110: 3071:

People don't need to understand Chinese characters first before studying Vietname history.

3057: 2867: 2841: 2830: 2808: 2797: 2778: 2768: 2676: 506: 374: 1705: 1596: 3233: 3218: 3199: 3161: 3141: 3114: 3098: 3061: 3041: 2982: 2871: 2855: 2849: 2834: 2816: 2801: 2786: 2772: 2756: 2723: 2705: 2680: 2657: 2610: 2584: 2395:

in 1888 and it commonly used the One Pillar Pagoda on city symbols, it wasn't until the

2215: 1691: 1186: 1132: 1086: 1055: 1042: 1028: 1018: 1004: 989: 969: 941: 919: 876: 844: 814: 738: 674: 660: 645: 631: 601: 586: 562: 545: 514: 495: 471: 455: 435: 405: 366: 355: 336: 306: 287: 251: 238: 228: 2132: 1904: 1559: 1530: 317:

Thank again! And I want change something may be not important, I want to use the name "

168: 86: 3030:

using Huế to represent a country ruled from Hanoi would be some form of "Huếcentrism".

2012: 1996: 1979: 1293: 3258: 2384: 2016: 1958: 1812: 1642: 1151: 1047: 1034: 981: 933: 868: 715: 710: 666: 637: 593: 578: 554: 467: 401: 393: 1653: 1323: 2736: 2338: 1159: 347:

I would like to change the name "French Indochina" to "Union of Indochina" and add

3017:

Meridian Gate in Huế is "more neutral" or "less Sinocentric" is disingenuous. The

2945: 2419:

is more representative and someone from Central Vietnam might think the same of

2391:, at the time the city of Hanoi was a French concession city separated from the 2206:" where the chronology is visualised like this while still being collapsible. -- 1263: 1155: 961: 911: 806: 446:

Do we recognize the dates when the government was in power, or when it existed?

2862:

without highlighting Chinese characters. Neutrality is the foundation of Wiki.

2556:, my guess is also that they preferred to see Vietnamese calligraphy and they 2403:(also notice that the One Pillar Pagoda here is used as the symbol of the Art- 392:

It is a name that is unsupported by literature (in particular, nothing in the

158: 76: 2552:

Originally this image was replaced in December 2021 by user "Heliitonn" with

2965: 2742: 2730: 1883: 1113: 1073: 2502:, but the overal size still matched that of the "History of China" image. 618:

Change 3 - splitting S and N Vietnam, may be useful. But the rest links to

2194:". But then the original user never came back to make some corrections. 525: 152: 134: 3184:

You seem to want to omit important information from Vietnamese history. "

2544:, but I am not sure if these other versions are an overall improvement. 2537: 665:

Perhaps he doesn't have to deal with the level of harassment that I get.

463: 397: 363: 333: 303: 284: 235: 225: 3182:

use Traditional Chinese characters side-by-side for Sinitic loan words.

2694:

China doesn't have an exclusive claim to Traditional Chinese characters.

2420: 2371:" the "History of Vietnam" image had a dragon in the background because 2590:

Why does the template image contain writing characters from colonizers?

2059: 181: 2540:. I'm very open to others improving the images I've uploaded, in fact 772:. Since 1953 proclamation of the republic, Egypt has had been know as 651:

because the changes you were making were detrimental to the template.

1652: 1241: 2051: 2031: 243:

Agreed, anything prior to Hong Bang Dynasty should be included in a

396:

article itself suggested the use of "Trung Queen" is accepted). --

180:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the subject of 2957: 2898: 2350: 1095: 608:

Change 1 - the reason Hồng Bàng is divided is because it links to

2492:

File:"History of China" for template heading (right-to-left).svg

2369:

File:"History of China" for template heading (right-to-left).svg

1166:

as a display of colonial power by the French and was adopted by

15: 2490:

Another point of comparison is the size of the seals, using "

1033:

nice edit warring, a block may come shortly if you continue.

805:

Furthermore, keep the diacritics and capitalizing "dynasty".

2142: 520:

copy it. Many Vietnamese historical books also said that

1196: 1101:

issue but it could theoretically be a map of any place.

864: 2124: 2111: 2072: 2029: 1994: 1971: 1950: 1937: 1902: 1881: 1858: 1842: 1808: 1783: 1767: 1753: 1732: 1717: 1701: 1687: 1671: 1638: 1624: 1608: 1592: 1578: 1555: 1523: 1509: 1496: 1475: 1460: 1437: 1423: 1409: 1395: 1379: 1365: 1349: 1333: 1319: 1303: 1289: 1273: 1250: 1229: 1216: 1199: 2453:

Tuyên ngôn độc lập của nước Việt Nam Dân chủ Cộng hòa

3026:

using your arguments which often evoke some form of

2379:

commemorative postage stamp issued in honour of the

995:

Yes, your version is better. Thanks for fixing it!

2174:{{History of Asia templates}} ] </noinclude: --> 2950:he wrote both in Traditional Chinese characters 2461:the Latin script writing was always standardised 2548:Version by user "Heliitonn" (21 December 2021). 2399:period that the One Pillar Pagoda would appear 1119:I think that for conveying the concept of "the 295:Thank you but: what's about my second request? 32:does not require a rating on Knowledge (XXG)'s 610:Timeline of Vietnamese history#Early Hồng Bàng 3127:Ngọ Môn (Hoàng thành Huế) (revision 70791332) 2532:" and the Traditional Chinese character "歷" ( 2514:The text is on top of the illustrative image. 2234:The original concept by user "Lệ Xuân" (麗春). 2154: 8: 3047:Despite some similarities in structure, the 2457:Tuyên ngôn độc lập của nước Việt Nam Đế quốc 2282:Version by user "Heliitonn" for comparison. 3105:characters to symbolize Vietname history. 2596: 2523:I don't think that my designs are perfect. 2161: 2147: 1142:that is still included in the "new" image 129: 47: 3052:opinnions are distorted and sinocentric. 2966:like you did with this Ryūkyūan template 313:Chinese Domination / Northern Dependency 2973:Chinese Vs. Vernacular Vietnamese). -- 2663:I see you are pushing Chinese style in 2224: 680:to add back in this 3rd set of changes: 131: 49: 3011:┌────────────────────────────────────┘ 2618:2601:647:6510:DCF5:CA02:5F2E:9415:FC2A 2603:2601:647:6510:DCF5:CA02:5F2E:9415:FC2A 798:also mentions most of the whole thing. 2729:Also, this wasn't even "my image" as 2427:Chinese calligraphy and Latin script. 622:where 45-76 is missing needs making. 174:This template is within the scope of 21: 19: 7: 2948:wrote about Vietnamese independence 2381:Golden Gate International Exposition 2373:the previous version of this infobox 2542:I have even invited others to do so 2505:In the current version the seal is 194:Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject History 110:Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject Vietnam 38:It is of interest to the following 3121:a description of the Meridian Gate 14: 2620:, none of this makes any sense. " 351:(1914 - 1918) into the template. 272:Talk:Vietnam during the Great War 3013:Additionally, claiming that the 2330:Earlier version for comparison. 2323: 2311: 2306:Earlier version for comparison. 2299: 2287: 2275: 2270:Earlier version for comparison. 2263: 2251: 2239: 2227: 2127: 2052: 2030: 2011: 1995: 1972: 1951: 1919: 1903: 1882: 1201: 1162:which was literally pushed upon 1068:Viet Cong (VICTOR CHARLIE(R.).). 782:History of the Republic of Egypt 161: 151: 133: 79: 69: 51: 20: 3280:Template-Class history articles 3265:Template-Class Vietnam articles 343:Union of Indochina; World War I 3285:NA-importance history articles 3270:NA-importance Vietnam articles 2942:Traditional Chinese characters 2731:you claim in your edit summary 2318:Later version for comparison. 2294:Later version for comparison. 2258:Later version for comparison. 1148:Traditional Chinese characters 620:Timeline of Vietnamese history 536:also said started in 111 BC). 367:06:58, 23 September 2007 (UTC) 1: 3275:All WikiProject Vietnam pages 2773:02:56, 30 December 2023 (UTC) 2757:18:51, 29 December 2023 (UTC) 2724:18:48, 29 December 2023 (UTC) 2706:18:45, 29 December 2023 (UTC) 2690:Special:MobileDiff/1118846980 2681:03:58, 29 December 2023 (UTC) 2658:21:23, 28 December 2023 (UTC) 2611:18:37, 28 December 2023 (UTC) 2439:but adapted to Latin script, 2397:Socialist Republic of Vietnam 2061:Socialist Republic of Vietnam 1043:17:33, 30 November 2014 (UTC) 1029:09:09, 30 November 2014 (UTC) 1019:20:08, 29 November 2014 (UTC) 1005:19:52, 29 November 2014 (UTC) 990:22:08, 28 November 2014 (UTC) 970:06:15, 12 February 2013 (UTC) 942:05:41, 12 February 2013 (UTC) 774:Republic of Egypt (1953–1958) 757:History of Vietnam since 1945 721:Socialist Republic of Vietnam 706:History of Vietnam since 1945 406:06:35, 26 December 2007 (UTC) 188:and see a list of open tasks. 3290:WikiProject History articles 2412:"History of China" image). 2401:on the 1985 20 Đồng banknote 1056:03:24, 3 December 2014 (UTC) 920:09:48, 9 February 2013 (UTC) 877:03:13, 9 February 2013 (UTC) 845:04:11, 9 February 2013 (UTC) 815:02:28, 9 February 2013 (UTC) 739:01:58, 9 February 2013 (UTC) 675:18:59, 8 February 2013 (UTC) 661:18:15, 8 February 2013 (UTC) 646:14:41, 8 February 2013 (UTC) 632:11:26, 8 February 2013 (UTC) 602:10:52, 29 January 2013 (UTC) 587:15:45, 27 January 2013 (UTC) 197:Template:WikiProject History 113:Template:WikiProject Vietnam 3234:03:54, 6 January 2024 (UTC) 3219:02:51, 6 January 2024 (UTC) 3200:20:10, 5 January 2024 (UTC) 3162:14:36, 5 January 2024 (UTC) 3142:14:13, 5 January 2024 (UTC) 3115:14:36, 5 January 2024 (UTC) 3099:14:09, 5 January 2024 (UTC) 3062:13:53, 5 January 2024 (UTC) 3042:22:31, 4 January 2024 (UTC) 2983:14:11, 4 January 2024 (UTC) 2872:13:07, 4 January 2024 (UTC) 2850:12:30, 4 January 2024 (UTC) 2835:12:23, 4 January 2024 (UTC) 2817:12:11, 4 January 2024 (UTC) 2802:11:59, 4 January 2024 (UTC) 2787:07:03, 4 January 2024 (UTC) 1981:League for the Independence 1193:Version by user "Adungtran" 356:05:25, 12 August 2007 (UTC) 270:". I just finish the page " 3306: 2665:Template:History of Ryukyu 1568:Anarchy of the 12 Warlords 1087:05:16, 23 April 2017 (UTC) 563:13:15, 4 August 2008 (UTC) 546:23:35, 2 August 2008 (UTC) 515:18:49, 2 August 2008 (UTC) 496:17:23, 2 August 2008 (UTC) 337:04:11, 5 August 2007 (UTC) 307:06:06, 2 August 2007 (UTC) 288:05:40, 2 August 2007 (UTC) 262:I need someone to change " 245:Prehistoric Southeast Asia 2669:Template:History of Korea 2585:17:09, 19 June 2023 (UTC) 2528:likewise the Latin word " 2365:File:Lichsuvietnammoi.png 2204:Template:History of China 2039:Republic of South Vietnam 1187:19:45, 28 July 2021 (UTC) 1133:16:06, 28 July 2021 (UTC) 472:03:02, 16 June 2008 (UTC) 456:04:52, 15 June 2008 (UTC) 146: 92:This template is part of 64: 46: 2389:United States of America 2216:14:15, 26 May 2023 (UTC) 436:10:14, 20 May 2008 (UTC) 252:08:11, 28 May 2007 (UTC) 239:01:59, 26 May 2007 (UTC) 229:02:15, 18 May 2007 (UTC) 2361:File:Lichsuhanoimoi.png 796:Modern history of Syria 411:About the Trieu dynasty 2908: 2433:Vietnamese calligraphy 2356: 1821:Trịnh-Nguyễn Civil War 1722:4th Chinese domination 1486:Phùng Hưng's Rebellion 1479:Mai Hắc Đế's Rebellion 1465:3rd Chinese domination 1413:Lady Triệu's Rebellion 1400:2nd Chinese domination 1354:1st Chinese domination 1154:until the 1950's) and 1102: 762:I took this idea from 375:Lady Triệu's Rebellion 268:Posterior Trần Dynasty 2902: 2821:Vietnam people spoke 2354: 1796:Southern and Northern 1099: 3119:By the way, here is 2486:The seal is too big. 2435:is essentially just 1813:Later Lê restoration 1150:(which were used in 976:Accessibility issues 833:Partition of Vietnam 778:United Arab Republic 753:Partition of Vietnam 701:Partition of Vietnam 442:Dates of Governments 3149:Meridian Gate (Huế) 3080:" masquerading as " 3049:Meridian Gate (Huế) 2823:Vietnamese language 2733:, it was added by " 2437:Chinese calligraphy 2377:French Indo-Chinese 2088:Historical capitals 2018:Republic of Vietnam 1960:Democratic Republic 858:lasted 2000 years? 177:WikiProject History 96:WikiProject Vietnam 2909: 2465:Korean calligraphy 2357: 2347:One Pillar Pagoda. 2173:<noinclude: --> 1736:Later Trần dynasty 1210:History of Vietnam 1164:French Cochinchina 1121:history of Vietnam 1103: 895:Egyptian mythology 891:Sumerian King List 319:Union of Indochina 264:Later Trần Dynasty 34:content assessment 2938:Classical Chinese 2905:Classical Chinese 2613: 2601:comment added by 2566:Classical Chinese 2359:Both the images " 2187:this was reverted 2171: 2170: 2137: 2119: 2106: 2068: 2067: 2047: 2046: 2025: 2024: 1990: 1989: 1969: 1968: 1944: 1943: 1933: 1932: 1926:Empire of Vietnam 1898: 1897: 1879: 1878: 1854: 1853: 1838: 1837: 1804: 1803: 1779: 1778: 1765: 1764: 1749: 1748: 1730: 1729: 1713: 1712: 1699: 1698: 1683: 1682: 1664: 1663: 1650: 1649: 1636: 1635: 1620: 1619: 1604: 1603: 1590: 1589: 1574: 1573: 1551: 1550: 1527:Restored autonomy 1521: 1520: 1503: 1502: 1492: 1491: 1473: 1472: 1456: 1455: 1435: 1434: 1419: 1418: 1407: 1406: 1391: 1390: 1377: 1376: 1361: 1360: 1345: 1344: 1331: 1330: 1315: 1314: 1301: 1300: 1285: 1284: 1278:Hồng Bàng dynasty 1271: 1270: 1245: 1244: 1223: 1222: 1140:Vietnamese dragon 932:capitalizations. 534:template in Dutch 438: 426:comment added by 216: 215: 212: 211: 208: 207: 128: 127: 124: 123: 3297: 3202: 3187: 3172: 3144: 3101: 3072: 3044: 3023:Meridiem Gate(s) 2759: 2740: 2726: 2708: 2660: 2639: 2627: 2623: 2570:Lịch sử Việt Nam 2562:Việt Nam Lịch sử 2417:Bến Thành Market 2342: 2327: 2315: 2303: 2291: 2279: 2267: 2255: 2243: 2231: 2193: 2163: 2156: 2149: 2131: 2126: 2113: 2074: 2066: 2058: 2057: 2056: 2045: 2036: 2035: 2034: 2023: 2015: 2009: 2004:State of Vietnam 2001: 2000: 1999: 1988: 1978: 1977: 1976: 1967: 1957: 1956: 1955: 1941: 1940: 1931: 1923: 1917: 1912:French Indochina 1909: 1908: 1907: 1896: 1888: 1887: 1886: 1877: 1868: 1860: 1859: 1852: 1844: 1843: 1836: 1829: 1818: 1810: 1809: 1802: 1793: 1785: 1784: 1777: 1772:Later Lê dynasty 1769: 1768: 1763: 1755: 1754: 1747: 1743:Lam Sơn uprising 1740: 1734: 1733: 1728: 1719: 1718: 1711: 1703: 1702: 1697: 1689: 1688: 1681: 1673: 1672: 1655: 1654: 1648: 1640: 1639: 1634: 1626: 1625: 1618: 1613:Early Lê dynasty 1610: 1609: 1602: 1594: 1593: 1588: 1580: 1579: 1572: 1565: 1557: 1556: 1549: 1542: 1535: 1525: 1524: 1519: 1511: 1510: 1500: 1499: 1490: 1483: 1477: 1476: 1471: 1462: 1461: 1454: 1450:Triệu Việt Vương 1447: 1442:Early Lý dynasty 1439: 1438: 1433: 1425: 1424: 1417: 1411: 1410: 1405: 1397: 1396: 1389: 1381: 1380: 1375: 1367: 1366: 1359: 1351: 1350: 1343: 1335: 1334: 1329: 1321: 1320: 1313: 1305: 1304: 1299: 1291: 1290: 1283: 1275: 1274: 1269: 1260: 1252: 1251: 1242:Bách Việt states 1238:Đông Sơn culture 1232: 1231: 1220: 1219: 1205: 1197: 1111: 959: 955:History of China 953: 909: 905:History of China 903: 793: 789:History of Syria 787: 771: 767:History of Egypt 765: 695:French Indochina 551:Kinh Duong Vuong 538:Kinh Duong Vuong 526:Việt Nam lược sử 488:Kinh Duong Vuong 421: 323:French Indochina 202: 201: 200:history articles 198: 195: 192: 171: 166: 165: 164: 155: 148: 147: 137: 130: 118: 117: 116:Vietnam articles 114: 111: 108: 89: 84: 83: 82: 73: 66: 65: 55: 48: 25: 24: 23: 16: 3305: 3304: 3300: 3299: 3298: 3296: 3295: 3294: 3255: 3254: 3189: 3185: 3170: 3131: 3088: 3070: 3031: 2954:in Latin script 2746: 2734: 2713: 2695: 2647: 2636: 2625: 2621: 2592: 2383:(GGIE) held in 2336: 2331: 2328: 2319: 2316: 2307: 2304: 2295: 2292: 2283: 2280: 2271: 2268: 2259: 2256: 2247: 2244: 2235: 2232: 2223: 2190: 2167: 2138: 2120: 2107: 2064: 2043: 2021: 2007: 1986: 1965: 1946: 1929: 1915: 1894: 1875: 1866: 1850: 1847:Tây Sơn dynasty 1834: 1827: 1816: 1800: 1791: 1775: 1761: 1745: 1738: 1726: 1709: 1695: 1679: 1646: 1632: 1616: 1600: 1586: 1570: 1563: 1547: 1540: 1538:Dương Đình Nghệ 1533: 1517: 1505: 1488: 1481: 1469: 1452: 1445: 1431: 1415: 1403: 1387: 1373: 1357: 1341: 1327: 1311: 1297: 1281: 1267: 1259:2879 BC–2524 BC 1258: 1246: 1225: 1195: 1105: 1094: 1070: 1016: 1002: 978: 957: 951: 907: 901: 791: 785: 769: 763: 575: 522:Bắc thuộc lần I 501:The Vietanmese 480: 448:Yellowtailshark 444: 428:122.105.145.175 413: 390: 345: 315: 260: 249:Yellowtailshark 221: 199: 196: 193: 190: 189: 167: 162: 160: 115: 112: 109: 106: 105: 85: 80: 78: 12: 11: 5: 3303: 3301: 3293: 3292: 3287: 3282: 3277: 3272: 3267: 3257: 3256: 3253: 3252: 3251: 3250: 3249: 3248: 3247: 3246: 3245: 3244: 3243: 3242: 3241: 3240: 3239: 3238: 3237: 3236: 3183: 3129: 3124: 3085: 3078:WP:IDONTLIKEIT 3074: 3012: 3009: 3008: 3007: 3006: 3005: 3004: 3003: 3002: 3001: 3000: 2999: 2998: 2997: 2996: 2995: 2994: 2993: 2992: 2991: 2990: 2989: 2988: 2987: 2986: 2985: 2897: 2896: 2895: 2894: 2893: 2892: 2891: 2890: 2889: 2888: 2887: 2886: 2885: 2884: 2883: 2882: 2881: 2880: 2879: 2878: 2877: 2876: 2875: 2874: 2693: 2641: 2634: 2591: 2588: 2550: 2549: 2525: 2524: 2516: 2515: 2488: 2487: 2429: 2428: 2393:Nguyễn Dynasty 2349: 2348: 2333: 2332: 2329: 2322: 2320: 2317: 2310: 2308: 2305: 2298: 2296: 2293: 2286: 2284: 2281: 2274: 2272: 2269: 2262: 2260: 2257: 2250: 2248: 2245: 2238: 2236: 2233: 2226: 2222: 2219: 2169: 2168: 2166: 2165: 2158: 2151: 2143: 2140: 2139: 2134:Vietnam portal 2125: 2122: 2121: 2112: 2109: 2108: 2094: 2078: 2073: 2070: 2069: 2049: 2048: 2042: 2027: 2026: 2010: 1992: 1991: 1982: 1970: 1961: 1948: 1947: 1938: 1935: 1934: 1918: 1900: 1899: 1891:Nguyễn dynasty 1880: 1869: 1856: 1855: 1840: 1839: 1830: 1823: 1819: 1806: 1805: 1797: 1794: 1781: 1780: 1766: 1751: 1750: 1741: 1731: 1725: 1715: 1714: 1700: 1685: 1684: 1669: 1668: 1666: 1661: 1659: 1657: 1651: 1637: 1622: 1621: 1606: 1605: 1591: 1576: 1575: 1566: 1553: 1552: 1545:Kiều Công Tiễn 1543: 1536: 1529: 1522: 1507: 1506: 1497: 1494: 1493: 1484: 1474: 1468: 1458: 1457: 1448: 1436: 1421: 1420: 1408: 1393: 1392: 1378: 1363: 1362: 1347: 1346: 1332: 1317: 1316: 1308:An Dương Vương 1302: 1287: 1286: 1282:2879 BC-258 BC 1272: 1268:2524 BC–258 BC 1261: 1248: 1247: 1236: 1230: 1227: 1226: 1217: 1214: 1213: 1207: 1206: 1200: 1194: 1191: 1190: 1189: 1173: 1172: 1168:Nguyễn Dynasty 1093: 1090: 1079:58.187.165.232 1069: 1066: 1065: 1064: 1063: 1062: 1061: 1060: 1059: 1058: 1014: 1007: 1000: 977: 974: 973: 972: 948: 947: 946: 945: 944: 898: 887: 880: 879: 854: 853: 852: 851: 850: 849: 848: 847: 822: 821: 820: 819: 818: 817: 803: 799: 794:. The article 760: 744: 743: 742: 741: 724: 723: 718: 713: 708: 703: 697: 690: 689: 688: 687: 686: 685: 684: 683: 682: 681: 616: 613: 605: 604: 574: 571: 570: 569: 568: 567: 566: 565: 530:Trần Trọng Kim 479: 476: 475: 474: 443: 440: 412: 409: 389: 386: 371: 370: 369: 344: 341: 340: 339: 321:" instead of " 314: 311: 310: 309: 302:Already done. 293: 292: 291: 290: 259: 256: 255: 254: 241: 220: 217: 214: 213: 210: 209: 206: 205: 203: 186:the discussion 173: 172: 169:History portal 156: 144: 143: 138: 126: 125: 122: 121: 119: 91: 90: 87:Vietnam portal 74: 62: 61: 56: 44: 43: 37: 26: 13: 10: 9: 6: 4: 3: 2: 3302: 3291: 3288: 3286: 3283: 3281: 3278: 3276: 3273: 3271: 3268: 3266: 3263: 3262: 3260: 3235: 3231: 3227: 3222: 3221: 3220: 3216: 3212: 3208: 3204: 3203: 3201: 3197: 3193: 3181: 3176: 3168: 3165: 3164: 3163: 3159: 3155: 3150: 3146: 3145: 3143: 3139: 3135: 3128: 3122: 3118: 3117: 3116: 3112: 3108: 3103: 3102: 3100: 3096: 3092: 3083: 3079: 3068: 3065: 3064: 3063: 3059: 3055: 3050: 3046: 3045: 3043: 3039: 3035: 3029: 3024: 3020: 3019:Meridiem Gate 3016: 3015:Meridiem Gate 3010: 2984: 2980: 2976: 2971: 2967: 2963: 2959: 2955: 2953: 2947: 2943: 2939: 2935: 2934: 2933: 2932: 2931: 2930: 2929: 2928: 2927: 2926: 2925: 2924: 2923: 2922: 2921: 2920: 2919: 2918: 2917: 2916: 2915: 2914: 2913: 2912: 2911: 2910: 2906: 2901: 2873: 2869: 2865: 2861: 2857: 2853: 2852: 2851: 2847: 2843: 2838: 2837: 2836: 2832: 2828: 2824: 2820: 2819: 2818: 2814: 2810: 2805: 2804: 2803: 2799: 2795: 2790: 2789: 2788: 2784: 2780: 2776: 2775: 2774: 2770: 2766: 2761: 2760: 2758: 2754: 2750: 2744: 2738: 2732: 2728: 2727: 2725: 2721: 2717: 2710: 2709: 2707: 2703: 2699: 2691: 2687: 2684: 2683: 2682: 2678: 2674: 2670: 2666: 2662: 2661: 2659: 2655: 2651: 2645: 2631: 2619: 2616: 2615: 2614: 2612: 2608: 2604: 2600: 2589: 2587: 2586: 2582: 2578: 2573: 2571: 2567: 2563: 2559: 2555: 2554:their version 2547: 2546: 2545: 2543: 2539: 2535: 2531: 2522: 2521: 2520: 2513: 2512: 2511: 2508: 2503: 2501: 2497: 2493: 2485: 2484: 2483: 2479: 2477: 2473: 2468: 2466: 2462: 2458: 2454: 2449: 2446: 2442: 2438: 2434: 2426: 2425: 2424: 2422: 2418: 2413: 2409: 2406: 2402: 2398: 2394: 2390: 2386: 2385:San Francisco 2382: 2378: 2374: 2370: 2366: 2362: 2353: 2346: 2345: 2344: 2340: 2326: 2321: 2314: 2309: 2302: 2297: 2290: 2285: 2278: 2273: 2266: 2261: 2254: 2249: 2242: 2237: 2230: 2225: 2220: 2218: 2217: 2213: 2209: 2205: 2200: 2195: 2188: 2184: 2180: 2179:this revision 2175: 2164: 2159: 2157: 2152: 2150: 2145: 2144: 2141: 2136: 2135: 2130: 2123: 2118: 2117: 2110: 2105: 2101: 2097: 2093: 2089: 2085: 2081: 2077: 2071: 2063: 2062: 2055: 2050: 2041: 2040: 2033: 2028: 2020: 2019: 2014: 2006: 2005: 1998: 1993: 1985: 1984: 1975: 1964: 1963: 1954: 1949: 1945: 1936: 1928: 1927: 1922: 1914: 1913: 1906: 1901: 1893: 1892: 1885: 1874: 1873: 1865: 1864: 1857: 1849: 1848: 1841: 1833: 1826: 1822: 1815: 1814: 1807: 1799: 1790: 1789: 1782: 1774: 1773: 1760: 1759: 1752: 1744: 1737: 1724: 1723: 1716: 1708: 1707: 1694: 1693: 1686: 1678: 1677: 1670: 1665: 1645: 1644: 1631: 1630: 1623: 1615: 1614: 1607: 1599: 1598: 1585: 1584: 1577: 1569: 1562: 1561: 1554: 1546: 1539: 1532: 1528: 1516: 1515: 1514:Tĩnh Hải quân 1508: 1504: 1495: 1487: 1480: 1467: 1466: 1459: 1451: 1444: 1443: 1430: 1429: 1422: 1414: 1402: 1401: 1394: 1386: 1385: 1384:Trưng Sisters 1372: 1371: 1364: 1356: 1355: 1348: 1342:207 BC-111 BC 1340: 1339: 1338:Triệu dynasty 1328:204 BC–111 BC 1326: 1325: 1318: 1312:257 BC-208 BC 1310: 1309: 1298:257 BC–208 BC 1296: 1295: 1288: 1280: 1279: 1266: 1265: 1257: 1256: 1249: 1243: 1239: 1235: 1228: 1224: 1215: 1212: 1211: 1204: 1198: 1192: 1188: 1184: 1180: 1175: 1174: 1169: 1165: 1161: 1157: 1153: 1152:North Vietnam 1149: 1145: 1141: 1137: 1136: 1135: 1134: 1130: 1126: 1122: 1117: 1115: 1109: 1098: 1091: 1089: 1088: 1084: 1080: 1075: 1067: 1057: 1053: 1049: 1046: 1045: 1044: 1040: 1036: 1032: 1031: 1030: 1026: 1022: 1021: 1020: 1017: 1012: 1008: 1006: 1003: 998: 994: 993: 992: 991: 987: 983: 975: 971: 967: 963: 956: 949: 943: 939: 935: 930: 929: 928:Viet Nam News 923: 922: 921: 917: 913: 906: 899: 896: 892: 888: 884: 883: 882: 881: 878: 874: 870: 866: 861: 856: 855: 846: 842: 838: 837:In ictu oculi 834: 830: 829: 828: 827: 826: 825: 824: 823: 816: 812: 808: 804: 800: 797: 790: 783: 779: 775: 768: 761: 758: 754: 750: 749: 748: 747: 746: 745: 740: 736: 732: 731:In ictu oculi 728: 727: 726: 725: 722: 719: 717: 716:South Vietnam 714: 712: 711:North Vietnam 709: 707: 704: 702: 698: 696: 693:Don't delete 692: 691: 678: 677: 676: 672: 668: 664: 663: 662: 658: 654: 653:In ictu oculi 649: 648: 647: 643: 639: 635: 634: 633: 629: 625: 624:In ictu oculi 621: 617: 614: 611: 607: 606: 603: 599: 595: 591: 590: 589: 588: 584: 580: 572: 564: 560: 556: 552: 549: 548: 547: 543: 539: 535: 531: 527: 523: 518: 517: 516: 512: 508: 504: 500: 499: 498: 497: 493: 489: 485: 482:According to 478:Correct dates 477: 473: 469: 465: 460: 459: 458: 457: 453: 449: 441: 439: 437: 433: 429: 425: 418: 410: 408: 407: 403: 399: 395: 394:Trung Sisters 388:"Trung Queen" 387: 385: 384: 383:66.53.218.105 380: 376: 373:Wrong! Then " 368: 365: 360: 359: 358: 357: 354: 353:66.53.218.105 350: 342: 338: 335: 331: 330: 329: 328: 327:66.53.218.105 324: 320: 312: 308: 305: 301: 300: 299: 298: 297:66.53.218.105 289: 286: 282: 281: 280: 279: 278: 277: 276:66.53.218.105 273: 269: 265: 257: 253: 250: 246: 242: 240: 237: 233: 232: 231: 230: 227: 218: 204: 187: 183: 179: 178: 170: 159: 157: 154: 150: 149: 145: 142: 139: 136: 132: 120: 103: 99: 98: 97: 88: 77: 75: 72: 68: 67: 63: 60: 57: 54: 50: 45: 41: 35: 31: 27: 18: 17: 3207:Donald Trung 3192:Donald Trung 3179: 3174: 3134:Donald Trung 3091:Donald Trung 3034:Donald Trung 3022: 3018: 3014: 2975:Donald Trung 2969: 2961: 2951: 2749:Donald Trung 2716:Donald Trung 2698:Donald Trung 2650:Donald Trung 2643: 2629: 2597:— Preceding 2593: 2577:Donald Trung 2574: 2569: 2561: 2557: 2551: 2533: 2529: 2526: 2517: 2506: 2504: 2495: 2489: 2480: 2469: 2450: 2444: 2430: 2414: 2410: 2404: 2358: 2334: 2208:Donald Trung 2198: 2196: 2176: 2172: 2133: 2115: 2075: 2065:1976-present 2060: 2038: 2017: 2002: 1980: 1959: 1939: 1924: 1910: 1889: 1870: 1861: 1845: 1832:Nguyễn lords 1811: 1786: 1770: 1756: 1721: 1704: 1690: 1676:Trần dynasty 1674: 1641: 1627: 1611: 1597:Đinh dynasty 1595: 1581: 1558: 1526: 1512: 1498: 1464: 1440: 1426: 1399: 1383: 1368: 1353: 1336: 1322: 1306: 1292: 1276: 1262: 1253: 1233: 1218: 1208: 1179:Donald Trung 1160:Latin script 1143: 1125:Donald Trung 1118: 1112:, regarding 1104: 1071: 1011:Plastikspork 997:Plastikspork 979: 926: 859: 576: 521: 503:vi:Bắc thuộc 484:vi:Bắc thuộc 481: 445: 416: 414: 391: 372: 346: 316: 294: 261: 258:Trần Dynasty 222: 175: 102:project page 94: 93: 40:WikiProjects 29: 2946:Ho Chi Minh 2642:Where does 2197:I honestly 1825:Trịnh lords 1788:Mạc dynasty 1583:Đại Cồ Việt 1560:Ngô dynasty 1156:Seal script 784:. Same for 422:—Preceding 415:Can we all 3259:Categories 3226:Qiushufang 3082:WP:NEUTRAL 3028:presentism 2842:Qiushufang 2809:Qiushufang 2779:Qiushufang 2630:Lebensraum 2564:(越南歷史) in 1983:of Vietnam 1962:of Vietnam 1706:Hồ dynasty 1643:Lý dynasty 1234:Prehistory 889:Check out 699:You added 532:1919, the 507:TheLeopard 379:Mai Hắc Đế 219:Prehistory 2964:Japanese 2743:this edit 2507:waaaayyyy 2467:works). 2451:Both the 2189:because " 2183:Adungtran 2080:Dynasties 2044:1969-1976 2022:1955-1975 2008:1949-1955 1987:1941-1951 1966:1945-1976 1916:1887-1945 1895:1802-1945 1876:1839–1945 1867:1804–1839 1851:1778-1802 1835:1558-1777 1828:1545-1787 1817:1533-1789 1801:1533-1593 1798:dynasties 1792:1527-1592 1776:1428-1527 1762:1428–1804 1746:1418-1427 1739:1407-1414 1727:1407-1427 1710:1400-1407 1696:1400–1407 1680:1225-1400 1647:1009-1225 1633:1054–1400 1531:Khúc clan 1358:111 BC-40 1114:this edit 1074:Viet Cong 573:Republic? 349:Great War 247:article. 3087:history. 2712:headers. 2638:fashion. 2599:unsigned 2538:Inkscape 2455:and the 2116:Timeline 2096:Monarchs 2092:Military 2076:By Topic 1942:Republic 1863:Việt Nam 1758:Đại Việt 1629:Đại Việt 1617:980-1009 1587:968–1054 1501:Imperial 1428:Vạn Xuân 1370:Lĩnh Nam 1324:Nam Việt 1264:Văn Lang 1255:Xích Quỷ 1108:Laksa666 1048:Frietjes 1035:Frietjes 982:Frietjes 934:Kauffner 869:Kauffner 860:Trời ơi! 802:lengths. 667:Kauffner 638:Kauffner 594:Kauffner 579:Kauffner 555:David873 424:unsigned 30:template 2962:Chinese 2944:. When 2856:Chữ Nôm 2737:Lachy70 2431:Modern 2363:" and " 2339:Lachy70 2084:Economy 1872:Đại Nam 1692:Đại Ngu 1601:968-980 1571:944-968 1564:938-967 1548:937-938 1541:923-937 1534:905-923 1518:866–967 1489:779-791 1482:713-722 1470:602-905 1453:548-571 1446:541-602 1432:544–602 1221:Ancient 729:Cheers. 191:History 182:History 141:History 107:Vietnam 59:Vietnam 3180:always 2960:isn't 2940:using 2860:neutal 2496:had to 2335:Hello 2199:really 2192:then!) 2181:user " 1660:expan- 1656:South- 1404:43-541 1294:Âu Lạc 962:Waorca 912:Waorca 807:Waorca 417:please 283:Done. 266:" to " 36:scale. 3211:EditQ 3175:never 3167:EditQ 3154:EditQ 3107:EditQ 3067:EditQ 3054:EditQ 2958:Kanji 2864:EditQ 2827:EditQ 2794:EditQ 2765:EditQ 2741:" in 2686:EditQ 2673:EditQ 2558:might 2405:Hanoi 2221:Image 2104:Naval 2100:Names 1388:40-43 1374:40–43 1092:Image 28:This 3230:talk 3215:talk 3196:talk 3158:talk 3138:talk 3111:talk 3095:talk 3058:talk 3038:talk 2979:talk 2970:this 2868:talk 2846:talk 2831:talk 2813:talk 2798:talk 2783:talk 2769:talk 2753:talk 2745:. -- 2720:talk 2702:talk 2677:talk 2654:talk 2607:talk 2581:talk 2534:Lịch 2476:here 2474:and 2472:here 2445:none 2212:talk 1930:1945 1662:sion 1658:ward 1183:talk 1129:talk 1083:talk 1072:The 1052:talk 1039:talk 1025:talk 986:talk 966:talk 938:talk 916:talk 873:talk 865:here 841:talk 811:talk 735:talk 671:talk 657:talk 642:talk 628:talk 612:etc. 598:talk 583:talk 559:talk 542:talk 511:talk 492:talk 468:talk 452:talk 432:talk 402:talk 377:and 3198:) 3169:, " 3140:) 3097:) 3069:, " 3040:) 2981:) 2952:and 2755:) 2722:) 2704:) 2656:) 2644:any 2583:) 2568:or 2530:Huế 2421:Huế 2214:) 2177:In 1416:248 1185:) 1144:was 1131:) 751:No 528:by 464:DHN 398:Nlu 364:DHN 334:DHN 304:DHN 285:DHN 236:DHN 226:DHN 3261:: 3232:) 3217:) 3190:— 3160:) 3132:— 3123:: 3113:) 3089:— 3060:) 3032:— 2870:) 2848:) 2833:) 2815:) 2800:) 2785:) 2771:) 2747:— 2714:— 2696:— 2679:) 2648:— 2609:) 2575:-- 2387:, 2102:• 2098:• 2090:• 2086:• 2082:• 1667:↓ 1240:• 1085:) 1077:-- 1054:) 1041:) 1027:) 1015:―Œ 1001:―Œ 988:) 968:) 958:}} 952:{{ 940:) 918:) 908:}} 902:{{ 875:) 867:. 843:) 813:) 792:}} 786:{{ 776:, 770:}} 764:{{ 737:) 673:) 659:) 644:) 630:) 600:) 585:) 561:) 544:) 513:) 494:) 470:) 454:) 434:) 404:) 3228:( 3213:( 3205:@ 3194:( 3156:( 3136:( 3109:( 3093:( 3076:" 3056:( 3036:( 2977:( 2907:. 2866:( 2844:( 2829:( 2811:( 2796:( 2781:( 2767:( 2751:( 2739:: 2735:@ 2718:( 2700:( 2675:( 2667:, 2652:( 2635:" 2605:( 2579:( 2341:: 2337:@ 2210:( 2202:" 2162:e 2155:t 2148:v 1181:( 1127:( 1110:: 1106:@ 1081:( 1037:( 984:( 964:( 936:( 914:( 871:( 839:( 809:( 759:. 733:( 669:( 655:( 640:( 626:( 596:( 581:( 557:( 540:( 509:( 490:( 466:( 450:( 430:( 400:( 104:. 42::

Text is available under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License. Additional terms may apply.

Index