35:, one of which is that is looks bad in Opera. As far as I can tell, Opera interprets an explicit "height" style parameter in a div to include the height of a scrollbar that's added (if "overflow: auto" ends up requiring a scrollbar). Looking into this, IE seems to be the only browser that requires an explicit height (Firefox, Mozilla, Safari, and Opera all seem to just "do the right thing" with no height specified). Do you know of a way to have conditional code in a template based on the browser? I'd like to make the height specification only visible if the browser is IE. Any ideas? --
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content a single element HTML list). I distinctly agree that scrolling should nearly always be avoided. However, for this specific purpose I think it's a whole lot less evil than the monstrous navigation boxes (effectively inline categories) folks seem to want at the bottom of articles. My actual preference is that we should use categories or lists for this sort of thing, but TfD attempts for these monstrosities regularly fail because of some vocal subset of users who like the "convenience" of having all the links right there on the same page as the article. --
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1728:, where the user can input their own "start string" to jump to Mick" or "Mi" or whatever they like. I don't think this kludge is the answer, as well-intentioned as it may be. Please address the problems of: a) getting a hardcopy of the information you've now hidden from printing, b) navigating the new navbox without using the mouse (in Firefox, you can use the right/left arrow keys when the main window pane overflows, but your navbox can't get the focus to do this). --
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426:(show/hide), this technique works on all skins (since it's just CSS) although there's an issue with the printable version that I don't know how to fix yet. In general, I think the "title" for any actual use of this will link to an article or list that has all the entires simultaneously visible in some format. As you surmise, the point is to reduce the template clutter at the bottom of articles using large navigation boxes. --
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parameter is (at least currently) not available to a template. I completely agree having a smaller, non-scrollable, TOC would be better - I just don't think it's (currently) possible. If this category were split into 26 categories, one for each first letter, we could do this, but with it being a single category there's only a single TOC that displays identically wherever you are in the category. --
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templates with an alphabet range on top of each is nicer. Although my aproach will cause one extra page load and your scrollbar actually is more easy to use, both as a user and as an editor. By the way, Ilmari's version do look better in both my old IE 5.5 and my
Firefox 1.5. (And I don't mean just the colours, I mean how the scrollbar looks.) --
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would be a whole lot easier to show folks how to create a template that isn't a monstrous eyesore than to go out and pick a thousand fights. And, do you have any solution for a very large category TOC? I agree horizontal scrolling a window is evil, especially when there is also vertical scrolling but that's not what we're doing here.
1186:? I absolutely agree horizontal scrolling is generally a very bad thing. However, as Ilmari explains above, this is content that most people really don't care about and even if we assume it's an inconvenience for those that do, is reducing the "clutter" in the articles where this template might be useful worth this inconvenience? --
812:✔ Fixed by changing the list height parameter to "_height" since IE is the only browser that seems to need this parameter to be explicitly provided (and other browsers ignore attributes if prefixed with "_"). This is a hack, making the inline CSS not compliant, but since it makes this template work in Opera I think it's worthwhile.
261:. This template might still be merged into that one (by adding a new parameter, like "Scroll=yes" or something). I'd prefer keeping at least the parameter names consistent between these two templates, and don't really care which way it goes (but suspect it would be tremendously easier to change these back). --
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professional opinion is that a horizontal scrolling navigation bar is the most practical path to the most benefit. Let them have their huge nav templates - just don't let the nav templates overwhlem articles. If you don't want to use it, no one is forcing you to. If you don't even want to see them
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b) I think navigation within the scrollbar without a mouse is fundamentally a browser issue. I'm happy to try to address it, but ultimately I'm not sure I care. Again, it's navigation not content. If you can't use it with your browser without a mouse, I'm sympathetic but perhaps not very. Can you
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Categories display with the same "fixed" content (what you see when you edit the category page) regardless of where you are in traversing the category members. So, when you click "M" from the TOC on the first page, you go to a "new" page but you see the very same TOC you saw before. The "from=" URL
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All in all, I'm more concerned with the interactions with screen readers and other non-graphical browsers. If those are acceptably solved, I'm personally quite willing to slightly annoy the minority of users, who want access to these links without extra scrolling, for the benefit of the majority who
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to be very useful and I love the scrolling panorama pictures. If nothing else, I'd like to keep it around for the panoramas. Hopefully, the software will be upgraded at some point to have intelligent TOCs, automatically generated. Until that happens, LargeCategoryTOC is the best tool we have. If
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I see the most jackassed stuff. There are templates for newspaper chains. These are constantly being obsoleted as individual papers and even whole chains are bought, merged, renamed, and sold. Most such templates are bigger than the stubby articles they emblazon. What's the point? A simple link from
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These "substitutes" are less general and harder to code, but are nearly as functional. For very large categories I'm not aware of ANY alternative. The question here boils down to whether horizontal scrolling, within a navigation template, is so inherently evil that we should never ever use it. My
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Previous to the creation of this template, Rick Block and I brainstormed on ways to create a workable TOC for very large categories. True, this would be much better handled by a software upgrade. But until a better solution is found, this is better than nothing. I also think that this template is
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other than get to the "M" page, click "next 200" way more than 20 times (20 gets me to the "May"s), or get to the "N" page, and click "previous 200" scores and scores of times, or figure out how the URL works and directly go to the page with the "Mi"s. There are someting like 70,000 entries in this
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allowing "direct" traversal to the "nearest" 4 places and "virtual scrolling" traversal to all (5 at a time). The template had a different appearance on each page (sort of "self scrolled"), but bascially required a script to create and was effectively not directly editable. Including the scrolling
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and those interested can go there to explore. Much better than adding humongous "navigation" templates and then hiding the info using scrollbars, show/hide links or whatever. If a "navigation" template need a scrollbar it's too big to be usefull anyway, replace it with a category and keep navigation
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Since I might be the one guilty of making Rick Block changing his aproach I feel obliged to comment. Rick: This scrollbar aproach is much easier to use than your old concept. Very user friendly. But I am sorry to say I find it somewhat ugly. So I still think my suggestion to split it up into several
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the huge nav templates? Fine with me, but are you going to nominate them for TfD? There are lots and lots and lots of them (I'd guess thousands if not tens of thousands). Even if they're nominated at the rate of 3 a day I'm not sure we could keep up with the creation rate. My thought is that it
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I don't understand how you're getting the 26 two-letter combinations beginning with the current letter. The previous TOC has a link to the beginning of the entries with a given first letter. The bold single letter section headers repeat this same letter. There was no way to get to, say, the page
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Some people do care, and will defend "their" template at TfD and will add it back if it's deleted from the articles. I agree we should link to a list or use a category, but there are a signficant number of folks who disagree with us. I previously created a "small and sweet" succession-ish version
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to see it all; the part that is visible without scrolling, including the title, is enough to establish it as a themed list of "see also" links, in which the most readers are unlikely to be interested at all, and the ones that do are presumably motivated enough to move their mouse to scroll the list
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Since a navigation bar is intended to provide hyperlinks to other content it isn't really needed/useful in printed text and thus I'd agree with the suggestion about marking it as 'noprint'. JAWS, Opera, and other possible accessibility issues are a bigger concern. Very nice idea, but needs to work
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I tried an alternative for large categories, with subpages by first letter transcluding the main (category) page. Turns out this does not work. Without some sort of software change I don't think there is a reasonable alternative. I've worked up alternatives for the current non-category uses of
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I couldn't have said it better myself. I've checked out interaction with the JAWS screen reader and the initial version had an issue (the content was not "skippable", forcing the user to hear the whole dang thing before traversing to the remainder of the page) which has been fixed (by making the
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The second image shows how I really would like it to be. As say six different templates, each covering part of the range. Thus making each of those templates small enough to look nice in the articles. In the top of each template there are "alphabet links" which lead to the first article (town) in
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The problem with print is a fairly big one though. We want our articles to be easily printable. These things can also complicate translation info other formats. If a "navigation template" is several hundred items big it's starting to get to the point where replacing it with a category/list of ...
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scrollbar enabled? I think we might want to think about this on a case by case basis, but I don't think it would be appropriate to do it globally. In addition, there isn't universal acceptance of this format (see last thread on this page) and this template isn't exactly ready for prime time yet
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The JAWS fix is with the current version (not the $ 900 one). The template is of class "noprint", so printing is inhibited (at least by browsers that honor the css media stuff). If anyone has a different practical solution to the issue of the visual clutter brought about by monstrous "inline
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Well, if it's easier to use as a user and as an editor is there some cosmetic change that might make it "look" better? Or, is the real issue the scrollbar itself? We could tweak the cosmetics (font, color, size, etc.) but the scrollbar is provided by browser so it will look how it looks. --
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Didn't know this trick, interesting :). It's not surprising that we cannot generate comments in the generated html. We only have wiki-text comment (thrown away by the parser). Apperently, that trick is already used on our site: If I look at the generated html of my sandbox I find this inside
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No. Sorry for being so short, but I really have no idea how that could be done. To my knowledge, conditions in templates can only be made based on very basic things like "is parameter X of the template empty or not", and "... is it equal/not equal to string Y". You might want to check with
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Category:Living people doesn't need a navigation bar with over 700 items in it. The 26 letters of the alphabet, plus the 26 two-letter combinations beginning with the current letter are enough. Honestly, if your navigation has more than ten items, it's time to rethink what is really
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Scrolling around in that to find the right two-letter combination of over 700 links is frustrating. Just showing the current letter's combinations in the second level is enough. If I want to get to Phil
Mickelson, I first click on the M, and then click Mi in the 26 second-level
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provides access to 26 spots in this (first entry with each different first letter), meaning on the average there are about 2600 entries per letter. I agree the 26 initial letters, plus the 26 two-letter combinations beginning with the current letter are enough.
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In the example, I've incorporated the prev/next navigation into the navbox too: still not sure if this is the best way. Perhaps those should be in a third line. Or perhaps there should be a third line above, containing a heading and back-and-forth nav:
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That above issue is now fixed; all the demos and weird mutant snakes have been moved to a subpage -- one I'll never stick my hand into. I always could see the demo on Pump; I'm not claiming a technical issue against the template. I just want it dead.
1093:. The scrolling article is a list of ways to ameliorate the disaster, if you choose to ignore his initial advice. Ignoring even one of his points would be a second failure. In case you haven't been paying attention, he writes, with bold text, "
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the huge nav templates. If a nav template has more than about a dozen main entries, it's probably wrong for articlespace; more than about 24 and it's not useful to most editors, either. The only virtue of existing huge nav templates is that they
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The only problem I can see with using it as a navbox replacement, is you can't immediately see the link you're already at, in bold within it. However it is infinitely preferable to using the "hide" function, which looks confusingly like an
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The only problem I can see with using it as a navbox replacement, is you can't immediately see the link you're already at, in bold within it. However it is infinitely preferable to using the "hide" function, which looks confusingly like an
538:, this causes traversal issues with the JAWS screenreader as well. I'll work on addressing all three of these issues (printing, Opera, and JAWS). I think it's clear this template should not be used until these issues are addressed. --
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The first image is with a scroll bar and is still somewhat ugly. The uglyness stems from the scroll bar and I don't think we can do much about that. But I added some margin space inside the frame which I think makes it look better than
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Other places may not appear at all : there is a "show/hide" template that does the job. For me, it looks easier to see everything at once, when useful, than to scroll an indefinite length of less readable ('cause it moves) text.
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I've tested it with
Firefox 1.5 and IE 6.0 on Windows so far, and it seems to work fine. Any comments from people using other browsers (especially Safari, since I don't have access to a Mac) are very much appreciated.
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often very well suited for displaying panoramic images. I don't think a blanket dismissal of its use will improve the project. Perhaps there should be guidelines for when this should be used, and when it shouldn't. --
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Sorry if I'm raining on your parade, but this horizontal-scroller idea is a terrible solution for the problem of over-crowded navboxes. Scrollbars should be left to the main browser window and nowhere else on the page,
360:. I've verified that it works with IE, Firefox, and Mozilla (on Windows) and Safari (on a Mac). If anyone can think of any technical reasons it should not be used please speak up. Initial discussion about this is at
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Perhaps this idea can be spared to serve as an overflow limitation for overtly-long lines of text, but it would be smarter to explore other methods of displaying text content/navigation without masking it or using
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I strongly oppose horizontal scrollbars, or scrollbars within elements. The only scrollbar should be the main vertical one, easily scrollable with the keyboard (up and down, page up and page down, or spacebar). —
802:✔ Fixed by adding "noprint" to the class. As far as I know this works for all browsers except for Safari (which doesn't seem to process the "noprint" class correctly and prints anyway, at least in print preview).
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Ehm, isn't that obvious? (Perhaps it isn't since you are asking.) So I added it to the example above. When clicking on a range in the "year list" that should link you to the first person for that year range.
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category" navigation boxes, please speak up. The only other approach I've seen (given that we aren't going to refrain from using them) is the show/hide approach, which doesn't work across all skins. --
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So, we fail one out of four by having a horizontally scrolling in-page element, which has to be navigated separately for users to see its entire contents. On the other hand, most users probably will not
1751:). This solution is targeted at any place where there's a navigation issue of the form "lots and lots of links that 1) have a natural and obvious ordering and 2) most readers don't care to see or use".
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Regardless of that, the horizontal scroll bar is a terrible idea, and by deciding to use it at all, we would be ignoring and misinterpreting
Nielsen's advice. Firstly, in that article he says
888:. I do appreciate your effort, but this is not the way to go — it would be like using a steering wheel to function as a mouse. ...Don't just take my word for it; read what no-nonsense expert
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I respectfully disagree. Standard on templates for parameter names is lowercase. Don't create a new template using upper case params. I've never heard of the concept of template "merging". --
836:'s version is marginally simpler (no outer DIV). There's a pending question about "ugliness" (see above), but other than that does anyone have any other issues with the current version?
3093:. Navigation without a mouse is apparently difficult (with at least some browsers and some OSs), but I suspect the alternatives are not very accessible given this constraint either. --
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to this template here? ("merging" the other way round?). I could do that with MWB and my bot account. I know, this would be 19,049 pages to edit but upper case params are really ugly. --
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I wonder if we could get Jakob or some other genuine usability expert to comment on this. I took a look at the article you cited, and while the points it makes are good, I don't think
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opinion on this is that it is not THAT evil. I mean, it's not like something that only works with one specific browser. This works with ALL browsers, including screen readers like
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the state quarters, all the stuffed animals, all the rare music, all the arcade tokens, all the obsolete computer gear, all the hand tools, all the eletronic components, all the
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1862:. This is meant to be an alternative. If the consensus is that we should not use horizontal scrollbars (ever, under any circumstances) this template should be deleted. --
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to every biography on a person who are an
Olympic Champion in 400 m hurdles, just add a category, that's what they are there for. Alternatively link to a relevant list like
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1206:. Link to a relevant category or list of articles instead, no point in listing every related article inline in every article! So for example instead of adding things like
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I wonder if there's any way for the template to determine which letter in the template itself was clicked to reach the current page: perhaps by using a page anchor link?
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Quis autem uel eum iure reprehenderit, qui in ea uoluptate uelit esse, quam nihil molestiae consequatur, uel illum, qui dolorem eum fugiat, quo uoluptas nulla pariatur?
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This template is a usability horror, mostly due to the horizontal scrollbar, and the fact that you can only see a tiny fraction of the content of the navbox at once.
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We could certainly add margin around the current version. Multiple templates is reasonably OK with me, but does not generalize that well. What would you do with
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vertical scrollbars on the same element, which we don't do. It'd be nice to have him (or some other expert in the field) comment on the usability of horizontal-
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would work, but the html comment syntax is apparently independently treated as a wikitext comment (so html comments do not appear in the rendered output!). --
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It seems that the new
NavigationBar now works in Opera - I don't see any more vertical scroll bar in Opera 8.5. Thanks for making this Opera-compatible!
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Thank you for your idea. I abhor long lists. Places in Bf'shire are many, anyway. What do I expect when I search - or stumble upon - one of them, like
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In this example I can see all of the links at once. The hierarchical relationship between the first and second row is clear (although perhaps the
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Hmm, was that fixed in the version of Jaws that costs USD $ 900 to buy? Handicapped
Knowledge readers aren't made of money. Both Nielsen and the
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I see; that's too bad. I guess a solution would have to tie in to whatever hooks at the
Wikimedia software level create the prev/next 200 links.
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can be formatted to be a bit more prominent, to reinforce it). Clicking twice to find the right spot in 700+ category pages is not unreasonable.
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I don't understand what you mean by "I'm getting" them. I'm saying that the following bad navigation bar with 700 items is way too complicated:
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we want to discourage the use of this template for use in nav templates, I wouldn't object. I'd strongly object to deleting it entirely. --
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scrolling, and of scrolling in-line elements in general, since I can't really tell from the article how he feels about that particular case.
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if all content is visible. If people see a scrollbar, they assume there's additional content and will be frustrated if they can't scroll.
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I took out my trusty old paint program so below are two drawn images (as one image file) of how I would like the navigation bar to look.
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IE apparently interprets CSS attributes with a leading "_" (and other browsers don't). I've changed the template to use this hack. --
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3201:. This isn't SourceForge any more than it's YooToob. We aren't here to amuse ourselves. Everyone's worked hard and been very clever.
68:, or the ultimate authority Tim Starling. You could also post your question to wikitech-l mailing list where the devs are reading. --
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is (IMO) roughly the same operation while allowing access to all of the items in the list (and preserving an editable template). --
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I changed it boldily. Usage seems to be low enough to do it using the brute force method. Was mainly used in two other templates. --
3231:, where I'd have enough room to store it all and display it. But even Hearst could not build fast enough to house his collection.
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and always comment negatively when they encounter it. Customer satisfaction is surely reason enough to avoid horizontal scrolling."
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readers will want to make the same trip (the same specific trip, not the general case), then leave B out of any template put on A.
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a) Since it's navigation, not content, not printing it seems like the correct behavior. I view this as a feature, not a problem.
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The vertical scroll bar looks too tiny, and I can hardly see any text inside. Please verify that the
NavigationBar also works in
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I'm reasonably happy with the current version. It's not quirk free, but I think the functionality is tremendously useful.
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templates small and sweet like the sucession templates for presidents and royalty (previous next) that sort of thing. --
822:✔ Fixed by making the displayed list an HTML list with one element with CSS to make the HTML list be displayed inline.
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Maybe that has its issues too, but it's way more practical than any horizontal scrollbar solution can ever hope to be.
3187:"We know from user testing that users hate horizontal scrolling and always comment negatively when they encounter it."
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This we do fail. However, his later comments in the article are particularly targeted against having both horizontal
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1889:. By the way, I did it using divs because I saw it first as divs, and only later on using templates. The template
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something like the following could be used (no scrolling, but two clicks to get a given year or a given athlete)
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if an area has scrolling content. Don't rely on auto-scrolling or on dragging, which people might not notice.
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Usage issue with JAWS ("next element" traversal shortcut not available, so it's difficult to traverse past)
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Do you have an alternative solution to the issue this template is intended to address? Have you looked at
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I'll copy my comment from way above, as I too think this is a great solution in a number of circumstances.
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paper to chain is correct; a list of papers in the chain belongs on the chain's page (or list page) and
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The stuff in these navbars isn't part of the actual article content, and is not particularly important.
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I've changed the name of the template from "NavigationBar" to "navigation bar". I suggest not to use
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huge; we can take aim on the slow-moving beasts and drop them. I'm not fooled by a side-scrolling
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is only a fairly thin wrapper for the div method. Its main function is to add v-d-e-links. Demo:
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in areas where more content or navigation would exist, as it is more often than not a usability
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If Cat:LP is the problem child that leads to this "solution", why not try something similar to
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avoid applying any form of horizontal scrolling for
Knowledge the future, for sanity's sake. —
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Cat:LP is perhaps the poster child for large unwieldy categories, but there are others (like
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use an existing 100 element navigation box without a mouse, like the one at the bottom of
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Users often decide whether to stay or leave based on what they can see without scrolling.
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3175:. That's my professional opinion. As somebody points out above, the template only fails
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we could create a CSS style so you could make them invisible in your monobook.css. --
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3219:. It is, at root, a neurotic disorder; I sympathize because I share it. I want to have
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The templates horizontal bar works in Opera, however a vertical bar is also generated.
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As for the navboxes, I'm more in favour of just linking to the list page itself (eg
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Isn't that enough to sink a battleship? Knowledge is here for one reason only: for
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the following could be used (no scrolling, but two clicks to get to a given place)
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53:"Do you know of a way to have conditional code in a template based on the browser?"
46:
3127:). But I'd be completely happy to see the horizontal scroll used for these too. --
491:
Navboxes aren't necessary in printouts anyway; couldn't we just add something to
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Not only that, ha ha, I can't even load this talk page. It breaks my browser.
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Is "works with JAWS" vs. "no scrollbar for Mozilla 1.7" a reasonable tradeoff?
353:
3251:. Yes, he should be able to get from one to the other -- and he can do so in
824:
This seems to disable the scrollbar in Mozilla 1.7 (on a Windows XP machine).
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139:<script type="text/javascript" src="/skins-1.5/common/IEFixes.js?13": -->
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How about this: If most people don't care about the info in the template,
930:
of them apply to this template. Let's look at the checklist he presents:
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This is not a solution to a problem but an encapsulation of a problem:
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2016:
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I've made a slightly tweaked version of the template in my user space
826:(checking this again, it seems to be fine in this version of Mozilla)
3142:
The demo on pump works for me but I hate it; it's poor ergonomics.
3169:
Now, I hate to bite the hand that didn't feed me to the snakes but
396:
I read the initial discussion and understand that answers are here.
720:
So these are my suggestions. What do you people think about it? --
1069:
477:
article would make more sense than a huge inline list anyway. --
225:
2099:
1952:
I really like it for use with large categories. Great solution.
1131:
One more thought: how would different web browsers print this?
857:
I really like it for use with large categories. Great solution.
3117:) in the "See also" section, and removing the navbox (or like
136:@import "/skins-1.5/monobook/IE70Fixes.css?13";</style: -->
132:@import "/skins-1.5/monobook/IE60Fixes.css?13";</style: -->
128:@import "/skins-1.5/monobook/IE55Fixes.css?13";</style: -->
124:@import "/skins-1.5/monobook/IE50Fixes.css?13";</style: -->
3205:
on making it work. Now go stick it on your user page. Okay?
3215:
There is a burning desire that beats within some breasts to
607:
Template talk:Navigation bar/examples#Ilmari Karonen sandbox
374:
Template talk:Navigation bar/examples#Places in Bedfordshire
1922:
can be added, if it's decided we want images in navboxes.
1314:. Is there another approach that might work for this? --
362:
Knowledge talk:Navigational templates#Compressed templates
791:
I've fixed the issues that were previously listed in the
1262:{{Template:Places in Bedfordshire/small|Little Barford}}
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312:(still need to resolve the JAWS traversal issue). --
141:<meta http-equiv="imagetoolbar" content="no" /: -->
228:. All calls are converted to lowercase params now. --
3193:"...one of the top-ten Web design mistakes of 2002."
203:). However, I seem to be too late already (sigh). --
3333:I'm not a fan of the huge nav templates but I find
3239:. It is not conceivable to me that a reader of the
3179:on one out of five essential usability guidelines:
516:, and I will have no objections to you using it. --
450:This looks intriguing. Thanks for your work, Rick.
257:The name and parameter names were chosen to mirror
3245:needs or wants a direct link on that page to the
1019:(they'll have to do so anyway to click the link).
998:Display all important information above the fold.
1906:Template talk:Navigation bar/examples#Navigation
1306:Mostly for demonstration purposes, I've created
2127:Olympic champions in men's 4 × 100 metres relay
1858:What you're suggesting is already available as
1023:just want to scroll (vertically!) past them. —
1629:
1623:
1596:
1510:
964:and use scrollbars that look like scrollbars.
2111:
2089:template:Footer Olympic Champions 4x400 m Men
1805:Template:Footer Olympic Champions 4x100 m Men
739:Template:Footer Olympic Champions 4x100 m Men
199:...these are easier to type (see for example
195:Suggest to use lowercase paramater names only
8:
1363:does exactly this. And it's 700 items. --
1218:List of Olympic medalists in athletics (men)
31:Hi - I'm trying to address some issues with
3290:Hmm, good rule. I'll have to work on that.
2118:
2104:
2096:
1980:
1211:Footer Olympic Champions 400 m hurdles Men
1089:, which he also rated number three in the
1072:say to accommodate current technologies.
978:on Web pages and minimize it elsewhere.
3282:and there's no clear expectation that
1912:I guess support for an image like in
247:for template names nor parameters. --
7:
892:has to say about this development: "
3278:If a reader can get from A to B in
3227:. And ideally, I'd like to live at
1091:Top Ten Web-Design Mistakes of 2002
568:File:Opera navigationbar broken.PNG
307:Do you mean make all references to
1985:Towns and Villages in Bedfordshire
1836:Therefore I will replace it with:
1110:Finally, the question of design—a
224:I iterated trough all calls using
14:
3257:Template:Knight Ridder Newspapers
286:BTW why not migrate the calls to
3248:Hilton Head (S.C.) Island Packet
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536:user talk:Graham87#NavigationBar
1974:template:Places in Bedfordshire
1250:template:Places in Bedfordshire
1095:users hate horizontal scrolling
787:Issues addressed, but a new one
403:? Mainly, info about the place.
366:template:Places in Bedfordshire
3115:List of places in Bedfordshire
135:<style type="text/css": -->
131:<style type="text/css": -->
127:<style type="text/css": -->
123:<style type="text/css": -->
1:
3349:20:36, 25 November 2006 (UTC)
3327:02:24, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
3301:06:46, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
3156:10:05, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
3183:. But boy, what a failure!
3132:05:58, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
3122:Places in Bedfordshire/small
3105:05:15, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
1964:09:45, 28 October 2006 (UTC)
1942:04:23, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
1927:18:15, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
1874:14:36, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
1853:13:47, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
1819:16:20, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
1791:18:43, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
1739:14:43, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
1668:18:43, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
1375:14:29, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
1326:20:32, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
1289:14:31, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
1231:07:46, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
1198:03:58, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
1178:00:50, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
1161:20:20, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
1087:not use horizontal scrolling
1056:18:42, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
1035:13:25, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
921:05:23, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
869:09:45, 28 October 2006 (UTC)
852:16:16, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
775:20:04, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
753:18:57, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
725:17:24, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
678:13:52, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
660:09:03, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
626:13:36, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
588:16:58, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
561:15:51, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
550:14:03, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
521:08:11, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
487:05:33, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
462:01:21, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
438:20:49, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
414:20:32, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
391:17:41, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
324:00:25, 21 October 2006 (UTC)
295:17:47, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
282:16:22, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
273:13:15, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
252:09:18, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
233:09:08, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
218:08:55, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
208:08:45, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
185:02:03, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
157:08:33, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
97:14:01, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
73:08:03, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
47:02:37, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
1970:this template. Instead of:
1252:that produced (for example)
595:
556:everywhere to be viable. --
495:turning off media print? --
3365:
976:Avoid horizontal scrolling
2133:
1749:category:Albums by artist
1396:template:LargeCategoryTOC
1308:template:LargeCategoryTOC
962:Comply with GUI standards
3255:, without the obtrusive
894:Scrolling and Scrollbars
518:J.L.W.S. The Special One
499:08:09, 16 October 2006 (
1116:Mystery meat navigation
3190:"...this abomination."
1860:template:NavigationBox
1312:Category:Living people
1275:in the template itself
1184:Category:Living people
572:
350:template:NavigationBar
334:Discussion from WP:VPT
309:template:NavigationBox
288:template:NavigationBox
259:template:NavigationBox
33:template:NavigationBar
1932:What is the big deal?
1803:since I've condensed
571:
3242:Akron Beacon Journal
3181:it's a side-scroller
809:Appearance in Opera
493:MediaWiki:Common.css
368:uses it, producing:
1959:Full support. :) --
1879:Actually, you mean
1829:I will replace this
970:We do this as well.
906:Special:Preferences
864:Full support. :) --
840:(works in both) --
834:User:Ilmari Karonen
795:box, specifically:
640:Looks somewhat ugly
3210:Huge nav templates
2908:Emmanuel Callender
2877:Mark Lewis-Francis
1711:2006-10-27 19:56 Z
1642:2006-10-27 17:21 Z
1342:2006-10-27 09:11 Z
1141:2006-10-26 19:53 Z
741:(for example)? --
573:
3325:
3103:
3085:
3084:
2998:Kemar Bailey-Cole
2717:Vladimir Muravyov
2647:Aleksandr Aksinin
2639:Vladimir Muravyov
2472:Walter Mahlendorf
2161:Willie Applegarth
2083:
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1872:
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1801:Veronica Campbell
1789:
1777:Veronica Campbell
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1114:scrolling list?
1054:
1033:
934:Offer a scrollbar
875:CEASE AND DESIST.
850:
751:
676:
624:
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389:
358:template:Panorama
322:
271:
201:template:cite web
183:
95:
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25:user talk:ligulem
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3338:LargeCategoryTOC
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2912:Richard Thompson
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2842:Kenny Brokenburr
2826:Bernard Williams
2820:
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2799:Carlton Chambers
2781:
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2659:
2651:Andrey Prokofyev
2637:
2636:
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2589:
2567:
2566:
2555:
2554:
2542:Ronnie Ray Smith
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2507:Richard Stebbins
2497:
2496:
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2461:
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2398:Harrison Dillard
2392:
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2367:Harrison Dillard
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2106:
2097:
2085:And, instead of
1991:
1981:
1921:
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1866:
1811:
1783:
1726:Special:Allpages
1710:
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1367:
1361:LargeCategoryTOC
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1172:Knowledge Seeker
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793:template:caution
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140:</script: -->
89:
39:
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3203:Congratulations
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3068:Andre De Grasse
3051:
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2994:Jevaughn Minzie
2986:Nickel Ashmeade
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2916:Aaron Armstrong
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2873:Marlon Devonish
2869:Darren Campbell
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2787:Glenroy Gilbert
2778:
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2752:Dennis Mitchell
2739:
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2713:Vladimir Krylov
2704:
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2643:Nikolay Sidorov
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2612:Millard Hampton
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2219:Loren Murchison
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2192:Loren Murchison
2184:Charley Paddock
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2153:Henry Macintosh
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956:We do this too.
953:
948:Hide scrollbars
939:
913:
902:overflow:hidden
901:
877:
789:
642:
567:
481:
454:
424:template:hidden
409:
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143:
19:
12:
11:
5:
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3346:Samuel Wantman
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3082:
3079:
3078:
3064:Brendon Rodney
3043:
3025:Marcell Jacobs
3008:
2965:
2943:Michael Frater
2926:
2900:Keston Bledman
2887:
2865:Jason Gardener
2852:
2838:Tim Montgomery
2834:Maurice Greene
2809:
2795:Donovan Bailey
2770:
2731:
2709:Viktor Bryzhin
2696:
2661:
2626:
2591:
2556:
2534:Charles Greene
2521:
2503:Gerry Ashworth
2486:
2464:Bernd Cullmann
2451:
2416:
2406:Andy Stanfield
2402:Lindy Remigino
2381:
2363:Lorenzo Wright
2346:
2328:Ralph Metcalfe
2311:
2293:Emmett Toppino
2276:
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2206:
2196:Morris Kirksey
2188:Jackson Scholz
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1987:
1967:
1966:
1957:
1953:
1949:
1948:
1939:Samuel Wantman
1933:
1930:
1910:
1909:
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1351:Phil Mickelson
1329:
1328:
1302:
1301:TOC for Cat:LP
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1038:
1037:
1025:Ilmari Karonen
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772:David Göthberg
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722:David Göthberg
708:
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689:
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657:David Göthberg
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616:Ilmari Karonen
611:
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523:
469:
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441:
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417:
416:
404:
397:
352:, inspired by
346:
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60:(inventor of
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3237:nowhere else
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2978:Asafa Powell
2939:Nesta Carter
2822:Jon Drummond
2783:Robert Esmie
2682:Calvin Smith
2499:Paul Drayton
2476:Martin Lauer
2441:Bobby Morrow
2359:Barney Ewell
2336:Frank Wykoff
2301:Frank Wykoff
2254:Frank Wykoff
2227:Frank Hussey
2223:Louis Clarke
2149:David Jacobs
2092:
2087:
2084:
2074:Aspley Guise
1977:
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452:David Kernow
378:
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242:
198:
142:<!--: -->
138:<!--: -->
137:<!--: -->
134:<!--: -->
133:<!--: -->
130:<!--: -->
129:<!--: -->
126:<!--: -->
125:<!--: -->
122:<!--: -->
66:user:Patrick
62:template:qif
58:user:AzaToth
52:
30:
22:
3274:, though.
3199:our readers
3056:Aaron Brown
2982:Yohan Blake
2955:Bailey-Cole
2947:Yohan Blake
2830:Brian Lewis
2791:Bruny Surin
2569:Larry Black
2437:Thane Baker
2433:Leamon King
2324:Jesse Owens
2297:Hector Dyer
2258:James Quinn
1356:CategoryTOC
1354:category.
1332:necessary.
942:We do this.
702:each range.
646:moved from
340:moved from
239:Name change
23:moved from
3317:Rick Block
3280:two clicks
3253:two clicks
3229:San Simeon
3161:Two clicks
3138:Do not use
3095:Rick Block
2990:Usain Bolt
2951:Usain Bolt
2904:Marc Burns
2760:James Jett
2756:Carl Lewis
2686:Carl Lewis
2674:Sam Graddy
2581:Eddie Hart
2538:Mel Pender
2468:Armin Hary
2394:Dean Smith
2371:Mel Patton
2332:Foy Draper
2289:Bob Kiesel
2231:Al LeConey
1894:navigation
1884:navigation
1864:Rick Block
1809:Rick Block
1797:Carl Lewis
1781:Rick Block
1773:Carl Lewis
1658:Rick Block
1417:Contents:
1365:Rick Block
1349:including
1316:Rick Block
1310:, used at
1279:Rick Block
1188:Rick Block
1151:Rick Block
1112:horizontal
1046:Rick Block
882:especially
842:Rick Block
743:Rick Block
668:Rick Block
540:Rick Block
428:Rick Block
381:Rick Block
354:user:Pengo
314:Rick Block
263:Rick Block
175:Rick Block
87:Rick Block
37:Rick Block
2678:Ron Brown
2608:Lam Jones
2546:Jim Hines
2511:Bob Hayes
1597:next 200→
1204:remove it
886:nightmare
580:Lcarsdata
245:CamelCase
3129:Quiddity
3110:I agree.
2066:Ampthill
1961:Quiddity
866:Quiddity
81:I think
3217:collect
3177:Nielsen
2078:Astwick
2070:Arlesey
1924:Shinobu
1850:Shinobu
1840:Caption
1705:Michael
1636:Michael
1336:Michael
1223:Sherool
1135:Michael
908:page.)
698:before.
479:Sherool
422:Unlike
401:Beeston
292:Ligulem
279:Ligulem
249:Ligulem
230:Ligulem
215:Ligulem
205:Ligulem
154:Ligulem
70:Ligulem
3172:yetchh
1779:? --
1409:links.
1227:(talk)
916:Down10
910:Please
648:WP:VPT
497:ais523
483:(talk)
342:WP:VPT
3292:John
3225:stuff
3147:John
1956:link.
1807:. --
861:link.
514:Opera
226:m:MWB
17:Opera
3322:talk
3307:Burn
3295:Reid
3284:many
3268:look
3263:Burn
3150:Reid
3100:talk
3091:JAWS
3047:2024
3012:2020
2969:2016
2930:2012
2891:2008
2856:2004
2813:2000
2774:1996
2735:1992
2700:1988
2665:1984
2630:1980
2595:1976
2560:1972
2525:1968
2490:1964
2455:1960
2420:1956
2385:1952
2350:1948
2315:1936
2280:1932
2245:1928
2210:1924
2175:1920
2140:1912
1904:see
1869:talk
1814:talk
1786:talk
1735:blis
1663:talk
1632:".
1394:see
1370:talk
1321:talk
1284:talk
1193:talk
1156:talk
1070:WCAG
1051:talk
1030:talk
1016:want
990:only
928:most
847:talk
748:talk
673:talk
621:talk
605:see
598:here
584:Talk
545:talk
534:Per
457:talk
433:talk
410:DLL
386:talk
372:see
319:talk
268:talk
180:talk
92:talk
83:this
42:talk
3259:.
3221:all
3212:.
3073:CAN
3038:ITA
3003:JAM
2960:JAM
2921:TTO
2882:GBR
2847:USA
2804:CAN
2765:USA
2726:URS
2691:USA
2656:URS
2621:USA
2586:USA
2551:USA
2516:USA
2481:EUA
2446:USA
2411:USA
2376:USA
2341:USA
2306:USA
2271:USA
2236:USA
2201:USA
2166:GBR
1799:to
1731:nae
1595:·
1513:·
1422:0-9
1419:Top
1248:of
986:and
896:".
558:CBD
379:--
364:.
356:'s
112:it:
64:),
3341:}}
3335:{{
3312:My
3125:}}
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770:--
600::
586:)
509:)
407:--
152:--
3324:)
3320:(
3298:°
3153:°
3102:)
3098:(
3075:)
3071:(
3040:)
3036:(
3005:)
3001:(
2962:)
2958:(
2923:)
2919:(
2884:)
2880:(
2849:)
2845:(
2806:)
2802:(
2767:)
2763:(
2728:)
2724:(
2693:)
2689:(
2658:)
2654:(
2623:)
2619:(
2588:)
2584:(
2553:)
2549:(
2518:)
2514:(
2483:)
2479:(
2448:)
2444:(
2413:)
2409:(
2378:)
2374:(
2343:)
2339:(
2308:)
2304:(
2273:)
2269:(
2238:)
2234:(
2203:)
2199:(
2168:)
2164:(
2119:e
2112:t
2105:v
2059:Z
2057:Y
2053:W
2049:U
2046:T
2043:S
2040:R
2036:P
2033:O
2030:N
2027:M
2024:L
2021:K
2017:I
2014:H
2011:G
2008:F
2005:E
2002:D
1999:C
1996:B
1993:A
1871:)
1867:(
1816:)
1812:(
1788:)
1784:(
1733:'
1703:—
1665:)
1661:(
1634:—
1630:→
1627:A
1624:←
1622:"
1610:A
1515:A
1502:Z
1499:Y
1496:X
1493:W
1490:V
1487:U
1484:T
1481:S
1478:R
1475:Q
1472:P
1469:O
1466:N
1463:M
1460:L
1457:K
1454:J
1451:I
1448:H
1445:G
1442:F
1439:E
1436:D
1433:C
1430:B
1426:A
1372:)
1368:(
1334:—
1323:)
1319:(
1286:)
1282:(
1195:)
1191:(
1175:দ
1158:)
1154:(
1133:—
1053:)
1049:(
1032:)
1028:(
1004:✔
982:✘
968:✔
954:✔
940:✔
849:)
845:(
750:)
746:(
675:)
671:(
623:)
619:(
614:—
582:(
547:)
543:(
507:C
504:T
501:U
459:)
455:(
435:)
431:(
388:)
384:(
321:)
317:(
270:)
266:(
182:)
178:(
94:)
90:(
44:)
40:(
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